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Messages - ensbb3

The States' rights to regulate has also been upheld.
Quote from: Smiley
Applying modern day logic & definitions will ALWAYS lead you down the wrong path.
It's the only path. Causality and such. Otherwise there wouldn't be other amendments.
ignorance and void your corner has.
If we're doing Yoda quotes, I'm going with - "Do or Do not, there is no try."
According to the amendment, the militia is necessary for the security of the state.
A "Free State" represents an idea. You may of over simplified there. To defend a "Free State" is to defend the principles not the land.

The Constitution had already been written and now the Congress was debating the amendments. Any Brits in the Congress?
Either you misread me or I am you, but that seems to be a non sequitur.

To *have guns* is not the same thing as *bear arms*. One is owning them, the other is to carry them around. The other is for the militia, insofar as the amendment is concerned, and the militia is to be regulated, it requires specific types of guns, not any random types, so guns have to be regulated too, when you bear them.
Again, interpretation agrees... In some States... That open carry is unnecessary. But the wording does not limit. That is what can be debated in law but even that is mostly left up to individual States. Some are tougher than others but Constitutionally the Feds are supposed to leave open ended interpretation to the States - subject to the Supreme Court's rulings. If you're struggling with why things are - keep reading the document. Each amendment has it's own interpretation and some you'll be willing to accept as obvious although not explicitly stated. They each play off each other to give you a feel of the document's meaning. A meaning that can and has changed. That's why it's not so much a list of definitives and their defining qualities as principles to be held up first.

Just amusing to observe how an idea can get out of hand and be touted to be constitutional with original intent
Agreed, so long as you don't let that amusement lead to considering the actual meaning a joke.
Oh, this topic got away from me. I meant to participate more. If time allows I'll revisit, but for now...

We now know that some claim that "bear arms" can be idiomatic, implying an organised militia, but we don't have to take their word for it because it says "well regulated militia" right there in the same sentence.

The need for a militia isn't a deciding factor in the right to do so. E.g. "Shall not be infringed" follows the words "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms". The meaning comes from the need of the people to raise a militia and the fact that the weapons were restricted by the British. Not exhausting a list of do's and don'ts is also part of the document. It's not meant to limit by it's wording. That's done in interpretation. Should a "free State" need defending the people have the right to be prepared. Given you don't hand someone a gun and suddenly they are a soldier, owning a gun for other means is the best way to provide innate proficiency. 

Regulation is Constitutional based on interpretation. If we were to simplify it as requested then at no time for any reason can you restrict access to guns. It simply says, in modern speak; Given the potential need of the people to form a defense force, they need guns, and no one should take them so as to prevent it. That idea is passed down and translates to: If they try to take your ability to defend yourself you are not in a "Free State". If anything it confirms the right to have guns and form civil defense forces.

That's the idea you're fighting with the second amendment crowd, not the wording of the document as much as the meaning they were taught. Not wrongly taught either. How that works in a modern context may feel different - Like who needs a militia to be "well regulated"? Insurgents seem to do pretty well without such an extensive hierarchy - But the idea is sound.

*edit* damn I swear my kybd skips letters I type. It's not me! :whistle:
Maybe they can take your opinion away next? It seems to be causing you distress. Your government treats you like children by taking everything away from you. Your police get stabbed - or have to surrender streets to hooligans because they can't even defend themselves and you think they can protect you? Bombs seem to go off there more than we have shootings. And your media force feeds you the idea that disarming your populace somehow makes you safe. What kind of child mind does it take to believe you need someone to hold your hand and keep you safe?

Your system isn't the only way to proceed. Degrading other systems to justify your own shortcomings seems to be your only weapon left. Legislation to control guns within reason can be found. Our system does not allow disarming the populace without substantial changes to the Constitution. That you surrender to your own government so easily makes you no better off. That you are actually the one suffering from a superiority complex while I'm the one with a gun is hilarious and only serves to prove the immature attitude that led to removing anything that you can hurt someone with from your possession. I do the same with small children.

Without the social programs in place your prohibition on weapons wouldn't work. You are far too indoctrinated into the idea that people shouldn't have guns to understand what a fool you are for claiming you know the solution. 
AR-15 to unleash a rain [...] consisting of thousands of rounds like he did.

Well sorta. The barrel wouldn't last that long. But that brings me to another point.

Nothing about this makes much sense, nor will it ever to anyone sane, however the reporting on this has been completely ridiculous. I've literally heard it all; He had 10 to 42 no wait, 23 guns. He shot for 5 to 15 (or longer?) minutes. It took police an hour to get to him - they got there 'quickly'. He killed himself when police got to the door - no, before they got there. (And there's way more social media blunders. Most I can forgive in the moment, but require proper retraction.)

The media has handled this with the same restraint as the shooter. Blasting everything hoping they hit something. Anyone that thinks they know what would of stopped this, at this point, is being foolish. It's easy to say this should not happen. Filled with misinformation one might even conclude they know how they could of prevented it. Even though someone wanting to stop him and how to avoid it was surely just as big a concern to the shooter as how to modify his weapons, illegally, to do the job. Other attacks have done more damage without the weapons he had. The systematic societal causes that leads to such insane situations isn't limited to gun violence or the US. Gun violence is the US's version of it, sure. We could use more comprehensive qualifications, sure. The sale of fertilizer is regulated but legal and diesel fuel is cheap... It's illegal to put them together and ignite the mix. It's also illegal to kill/attack people. So what's hard is determining a solution without jumping to conclusions. Without just shifting the type of attacks down the road to something that can't be identified or stopped with proper analysis of actions for the fleeting illusion of safety now. Finding legislation that provides the social services to prevent people from wanting to hurt other people seems never to be a solution worth investigating. At least if they finally take the guns well have to deal with the fact that doesn't work.
Texans who wanted out of the Union.
I mean, the last time it was an option they left.
No doubt they would be a minority whilst at the same time there seemed a bit of a presumptuous Texas attitude.
Well they are aware of the benefits of being one of the wealthiest States in such a Union too. But you wouldn't have to talk to many of them before learning that and every other thing great about Texas. Friendly tho... Oh, and cowboy garb is not a costume there.
I lived there. Then spent weeks out of every summer there after that, tagging along with the old man on business trips. It was a good chance to get away and enjoy some freedom in my teens. I was unaware I was being disparaging. It's a fine place. I like it. I just don't think they need any convincing they could go it alone.
Wonder if they had PR in Texas how many would vote "out."?
Ever been to Texas? They are pretty convinced they are on their own already. "The Lone Star State" is an attitude.
It's all really quite technical, you see. :left:
oh noes! who put this egg on my face!? Ahh! It's like my face is a skillet! Who opened these dozen eggs here? Ah, the burn! It burns!!

Could you do me one more thing..?
Having failed your own advice...

"Quit you like men:be strong"
Could you fix the spacing in this?

Grammatically incorrect hypocrisy is where I must draw the line.
Totally innocent sailors killed and 4 state-of-the-art warships not run right and we get this stuff??
Well we sure as shit didn't get much from you. Others have cobbled together what you think you're talking about. Not that you'd ever overstate anything, but your spine has apparently deteriorated from sitting in front of the television so much.

A 22yr old destroyer perhaps isn't "state-of-the-art" but shouldn't be colliding with other ships nonetheless. If you want to read the report:
USS Fitzgerald Report
Who hit whom is a bit of a hmm[?]. It was at night and everything seemed legit until a cargo ship crashed thru the side. Not sure on maritime right of way and such, guess I'll have to wait for the investigation to conclude.
"The loss of seven shipmates is a tragedy beyond words and a reminder of the danger inherent in the mission of every ship and Sailor."  Seems fitting enough. They did sign up for that possibility even though no one wished it on them.
Capt. Joseph Carrigan was relieved due to a "loss of confidence" in his ability to command by Rear Adm. Charles Williams, commander of Task Force 70, according to a Navy statement from U.S. Pacific Fleet in Hawaii on Wednesday.
Something you want me to add to that? Did you know or just pretending nothing was being done?
The commander of the Navy's Japan-based 7th Fleet was fired last week after a series of accidents this year raised questions about its operations.

The firing of Vice Adm. Joseph Aucoin, a three-star admiral, was a rare dismissal of a high-ranking officer for operational reasons.
And look they got the admiral too.

Like your posts mine didn't really have much to do with the topic. I made it clear enough I thought it sounded dumb.

P.S. I didn't look up the one that collided with a fishing boat. It's not that I didn't care, I just thought if you grew a backbone you might actually want to do your own work.
Odd, I know that as "what shall we do with the drunken sailor." Besides that I think it's the same. Probably.

I've heard it both ways. "What will* we do"sounds more right to me... so is prolly wrong, lol. Gotten into sea shanties lately. Inspired by some recent boat outings I suppose. I like this one better:

Oh dear. How cold* this come to be? Too many diplomats! The shame. The horror!

*Edit: Could
Now Russia has done what the USA did
Now Russia has done what it always does? Well, if none end up dead I guess there's a difference from the norm.
I wouldn't sell mine. There are no laws preventing its misuse.
Are the USA preparing for biological warfare?
Given the USAF does research with other agencies, that seems like a big jump. Or more appropriately, pulled out of nowhere. Could just be a matter of who's budget it comes out of.
Wonder if anyone on these forums could top such a dumb statement?
:no: Easy. You'll provoke our resident Trump apologist.  :insane: 
DnD Central / Re: Everything Trump…
We're the ones who created the trade rules that favors us, the world banking system that gives us preferment.
Actually we use the British system of banking.
Well Smileyfaze and dear man. I will use bright orange soap to get you out of the picture! And not to surprise you too much have an yellow flag (Imperial Russia coat of arms) to mark the assassination of a pleasant family along with their nice girls and the 13 year old boy expected to live due his medical complaint. My Confederate flag will be used In those days to mark the Fort Sumter attack.

May I inform you on your limited corner that the top 1% here contribute 23% of the government's tax income so can you say that??
Is there another option? Your welfare state may be cause of the ruling class making sure they have the last say.
(But then the whole purpose is the outsider's looking in perspective.)

In some cases, and on the long term, lowering taxes on businesses can attract them to the area. Mississippi could use more cooperates and industry for sure. This provides growth and a later tax base... They don't build rockets in N. Alabama because that's where all the rocket scientist are. 

You have over 40 million poor and over 2.1 million in jail being the world's toppers in that one.
The war on drugs is a fool's task. Prohibition has never worked. Criminalizing the use of drugs rather than funding treatment is the problem. Affecting mostly the areas that need social programs and education but don't participate in or trust government.

You have a massive amount of people shot to death annually plus a 4-figure number of children plus the also figure i quoted of 5,000 kids injured in that corner as well.
Again, I'm not out to save everyone. I've always taught proper gun safety to those around me, they [guns] are something one is going to encounter. Anything more is out of my purview.

The ObamaCare boasting only involves 20% of Yanks no Welfare state or national Health
While starting hyperbolic it leads right into a contradiction and falters on ignorance.

You lot like to bum about being so wonderful a world paradise but the hard facts (of which a couple I give) show a different picture. Gung ho, gun mad.
I just bought an AR-15, opting to use the .223 rounds with a 20 round clip due to weight and endurance of the hardware. Fine weapon and highly recommended. Effective around 300 yards - no feral dogs or coyotes now stand a chance given its superiority over my 30-30 in potency.

Seems mostly you do all the boasting while suffering from all the conditions you claim of "yanks" (a term which doesn't really include me ;))

I'm for some of the policies you claim are so great. The real question is, what is the road to them? If that road is furthering the overreach of imperial ideals until they break - Then I'm for that. If this country needs to break apart (Alabama :), California, Florida, Texas; I'm looking at you) - I'm for that. If one party or another needs to be reformed and gain power under such goals - I'm for that... And open to other options too. You just remain mute on what they may be. I've always assumed it due to outsider's ignorance that you can only point to symptoms. Your bias won't let you see past your nose unless damning news about America is on the telly.
Farmer dies after pig bit off his penis and three fingers
This little piggy went to the market.
We have a multi-party democracy, welfare state, national health service and much else.
This little piggy stayed home.

Scotland is the assault capital of the world according to UN stats on violent crime
Or should check home first. Your telly must want you to feel good about your backward 'country'.

United Nations fly in special investigator to probe whether hated bedroom tax has broken human rights laws
They used to collect taxes like that here, back in the '40's. Leads to interesting home designs.

Older postings. Surely things have turned around...
Scandal as Scottish doctors convicted of violent attacks are allowed to keep their jobs
Nope. Leading recent headlines suggest business as usual.

I'm guessing 90% of all private lands are still held by just over 400 people?

Oh wait - You wanted to talk wider national news.
So Brexit?
Ready to explain how the House of Lords fits in a democracy?

And before you start. I'm against some things you posted too. The answer you seek is, by voting. (Congress is next to reseat and even die hard Trump supporters have STFU for now.)
I am sick and goddamned tired of this corporate socialism.
Capitalism* ;) :rolleyes:

No, I get ya man. I really do. But giving them another place to pull money from the wrong people isn't the best thing, IMO. It can deflect away from such real issues.

The Feds are poised to roll back banking restrictions along with countless other GOP ignorance. (I've just quit keeping up.)

And, just when you think that things can't get any more stupid... Rj posits a dumb question from the land of hypocrisy.

For what it's worth the lotto just doesn't help. Our State's healthcare (TennCare) was on life-support after Bush II and now lays all but dead at the feet of Obama Care. Lotto money and all. For all the good anyone tries to do someone catches the shit end of the stick. I'm not out to save everyone. I'd just like to see the stick fall the other way once in awhile. It'll take a bit for the mainstream GOP policies to fail like they always do (in my lifetime anyway) and we'll see social progress again. With Trump in office we are all left to ride out the storm, tho.
Luckily they are very few, and that's why the point cannot be about them.
I've seen numbers higher than 80% of the people participating are below the poverty line. (Just watching who's sitting in the stores scratching off tickets or filling in bubbles seems to support this.) The point was always who was affected. Taxing the 'poor' a few dollars at a time. Sure one could argue they would of blown that anyway... But under the guise of doing educational good for a class that already have educational social programs - Oh and the dream of winning big. State sanctioned criminal activity? Guess it depends who gets the money.

I wonder how many of them know that a large portion of that money was reallocated to other things back in 2009 or '10? Oh well - let them dream.