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Topic: Costs (Read 1986 times)

  • string
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Costs
First I should remark that this is not an urgent matter so we can discuss this at leisure and with due thought: It is a subject that needs to be aired.

So far DnD has existed without funding and Frans has made brave noises about cost not being a problem with his set-up at present levels.

But what if we actually succeed and this is not a 1 year wonder but a continuing effort involving a much larger set of Members. We can hardly expect Frans to be exposed to more and more "little" costs which grow into something intolerable. Nor can we expect him to give of his time indefinitely without some form of help be it active work by us (or a.n.other) or money or indeed dedicating forever to this forum.

The change in Domain name was a minor cost thing, but it had to be done and money had to be raised. It was raised by donation from within the DnD Administration but that is unsustainable over the long term.
A subscription has been mention already and probably I and others would go for that but I suspect that would not normally be the case, especially for attracting the merely curious new member. But it is worth considering; the forum has built-in support for some kind of paid subscriptions .

Then there's advertising, but we are not an attractive prospect for that at the moment. Maybe the point where we are attractive will coincide with the critical forum size for sustainable membership.
Advertising would have its problems coming from its nuisance quotient and avoiding scams and viruses. Maybe Advertisements could be relegated to its own closed forum section, if a commercially attractive way of doing that could be found. I don't know, perhaps some of you have ideas.

I'm not suggesting that we raise funds just yet, we have to make this thing a success first, but we need to know where we might go and what the boundaries of the present set-up are. Last but not least we need to know what is the general consensus on this.

Finally please note that the T&C bars people from making money from posting. It's phrased like that to avoid stating that the Forum itself should not raise money for its own continuation.

  • Frenzie
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Re: Costs
Reply #1
Somewhat on topic, I don't find the ads on MozillaZine too bothersome, although why it's advertising to "Meet Muslim Ladies" and "Date Single Moms" is a mystery to me.

  • ersi
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Re: Costs
Reply #2
Haha, Frenzie. Of course, given your temperament, you don't find ads bothersome when they don't attract you. I am also not out to chase Muslim women or single moms, but ads annoy me to the extreme overall. I tend to think all business is unethical and advertising in all forms is also unethical right after banking and insurance sectors. Luckily there's no fear of you going commercial (yet).

The only thinkable commercially lucrative prospect for this forum is to merge with some other tech forum in the long run. We have Linux talk already. We could support the Otter guy with more focus, to become a kind of public platform for him. Along with the other things we do, this could keep our spirit afloat a longer while, so that people here acquire a sense of unity and become susceptible to campaigning for monetary support or any other cause you may think of :)

This is an important topic. I sort of sensed that the move to a new domain name wasn't quite free of charge. Have you thought of a donate button somewhere at the bottom edge? Have you contacted the Otter guy, invite him here, so we can interact and see if we could join heads and hands?

  • Banned Member
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Re: Costs
Reply #3
Nah, that should be Frans's own project then: "Frenzilla", do you like it?:P

  • string
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Re: Costs
Reply #4
Subscription / donation --- it could be set up and that's certainly one option. We had a short term problem (moving) and the long term problem which this thread is about. One issue with solving the short term problem by putting a donate button on the site was the potential off-putting of potential new members when one of the first things they see is a request for money. Also it was a relatively small amount of money so in spite of the fact that a couple of Members had already offered support it was decided to just go ahead quickly and solve the move "problem" and be done with the short-term head-scratching.

I'm not so sure about the advertising thing either, although for different reasons, but would not rule it out - let's see what ideas come up.

Personally I think your idea of expanding the interest base is a good one. I see the Browsers & Technology section as one which could well attract new posters. One could also think of additional sections in non-technical areas. But we should not loose sight of the fact that at this time we are relatively few in number and we need a bigger "population" to service such things.

Re: Costs
Reply #5
I'll be happy to make a donation to defray any costs that Frenzie has taken on by himself. In the long term I'll go along with whatever is decided. I've been with D&D for a long time and want to see it continue wherever it ends up.

  • ersi
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Re: Costs
Reply #6
But if not by means of a donation button/link, how will the request for donations be communicated? Maybe by means of the "News" line that I requested removed?

At an urgent point, make a red line of text appear in the upper edge, saying something like "If all of you transferred X euros by Monday to such-and-such account number, this place would stay online for another year."

Of course, this means the administration should have its own official bank account, which is yet another thing that costs :)

  • string
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Re: Costs
Reply #7
Yes - in an emergency we could do that although we are more concerned with growing at the moment than collapsing. The news letter "test"/call for voting on the logo recently done by Frans shows that there are a couple of ways to make contact with members. Some have already volunteered to provide a donation so that is encouraging. It is only natural that some would not do that, some because they don't want to and others because they are low on money and thus don't want to build up subscriptions which eat away at money.
For those that donated we could always give them an appellation; this is a sanctuary so perhaps they could be promoted to Saint or something! (Just joking).

But that is just one option. Personally, unless there was some sort of unforeseen emergency, I would not go that route in thus period of our existence. The last thing a new member would want to see is an immediate to hand over money, voluntary or not.

This thread helps us mull over all options I hope.

  • ersi
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Re: Costs
Reply #8
Some have already volunteered to provide a donation so that is encouraging. It is only natural that some would not do that, some because they don't want to and others because they are low on money and thus don't want to build up subscriptions which eat away at money.
Or they are not volunteering because they are not aware of the need and it's not in their nature to be proactively offering money as if their counterparts were some sort of beggars. In real life, when nobody is asking for anything and you offer them money, they may take offence. So, active request is appropriate when you are in need. For now looks like the administration has no needs.

Of course I didn't mean the news line as something permanent, just for a week or so, max month. It didn't feel in any way off-putting to ask, e.g. people to vote for the logo just now. An email or personal message may feel much more intrusive. Depends on different characters of course. And depends on your needs. When in real need, use all the channels and opportunities.

Re: Costs
Reply #9
If the need arises, you all can count on me to mail some cash in; not at all a problem.

Just notify me @String or @Frans

  • string
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Re: Costs
Reply #10
Thanks jimbro, ersi and Colonel Sir!  Such words are encouraging.

  • Frenzie
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Re: Costs
Reply #11
Seconded. :)

Re: Costs
Reply #12
Maybe Advertisements could be relegated to its own closed forum section, if a commercially attractive way of doing that could be found. I don't know, perhaps some of you have ideas.


Other forums I visit post an ad just under the OP sometimes even just as a post. That's not anymore annoying than skipping a post you don't wanna read.

If it becomes necessary, tho, I'll donate too to help prevent ads here.

  • Belfrager
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Re: Costs
Reply #13
What's happening? there's some problem with some miserable euros?
bah. I'm the poorest european, germans pays for me, it's what they say...  :)

Mr Krake, you do immediately a money transfer to DnD, in my behalf, of one thousand euros. Thank you.

p.s. you can double it, two thousand euros must solve the problem.
A matter of attitude.

  • string
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Re: Costs
Reply #14
That made me chuckle a bit - having an Ad just after the OP, ensbb3. Can you imagine the ridicule this bunch of old reprobates, lunatics and malcontents would give such an advertisement!!! Still let's put it in the list of options. Nice of you to offer help. Not needed just yet though such things are Frans's to to flag if the time comes.

I wonder what the critical number of views would be to make advertising attractive to a vendor. More than 35 ...

To think of those things we need a population explosion, ... and a bright idea.

Re: Costs
Reply #15
:cheers: @String and @Frenzie

So are we now advertising the forum to D&D now? Not like we have much to lose, as the ship is 3/4 of the way down, at this point.

  • Frenzie
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Re: Costs
Reply #16
Yeah, sure. But please try not to be spammy. :)

  • ersi
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Re: Costs
Reply #17

To think of those things we need a population explosion, ... and a bright idea.
The bright ideas part, I have offered two:

- Specialise and cooperate. As an example, make a forum category for Otter browser and put it the first in the list when Guest lands on the front page. Or whatever other open-source community-driven project looks like worth supporting and lacks a forum currently. Luakit, Uzbl, ...

- Blog page for every user. Same features as for forum posts, no need for anything more.

I'll write more when I get bright moments.
  • Last Edit: 2014-02-07, 11:51:39 by ersi

  • Frenzie
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Re: Costs
Reply #18
Well, there is this one mod I found. You can play around with it by registering with the catchphrase from Terminator 2, but replacing the b-word with "bots". Make sure to capitalize your sentence and to end it with a period.

I could install that no problem, but it seems a bit limited.

  • ersi
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Re: Costs
Reply #19
@Frenzie
It keeps saying "That username does not exist." Tried my own name, Administrator, and test. Maybe I am not getting the catchphrase either.

Anyway, what is a bit limited about it? If it's not more limited than the forum posting, I'd argue it's not limited. If it allows commenting, it's fine. I see it allows likes :)

Idea: Blogs as a separate category at the front page, browsable per post in historical order last first.

  • string
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Re: Costs
Reply #20
@ersi - re your suggestion on Otter Browser ----- thinking --------

  • Frenzie
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Re: Costs
Reply #21
Sorry, my bad. I hadn't entered the phrase with a capital.

By limited I mean there don't seem to be such features as import/export and newsfeeds.

Re: Costs
Reply #22
@ersi - re your suggestion on Otter Browser ----- thinking --------


It's a good idea. Tho simple marketing will attract attention to what you're doing. Of course we'll need revenues for that. But purchasing keywords to increase search presence will start the flow of guests interested in such side ventures to our doors. Adsense (being the simplest) could generate revenues from there. (All based on views and clicks, if you're unfamiliar.) The space for such ads is up to the administration.

  • Frenzie
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Re: Costs
Reply #23
Here's an article by my friend Matt. I have yet to read it. http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/banners-begone-readers-supported-three-websites/

  • Banned Member
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Re: Costs
Reply #24
It deserves a topic.