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Topic: Keeping an eye on Opera (Read 46046 times)

  • string
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Keeping an eye on Opera
Many are giving up Opera due to the shortcomings of the present state of the so-called "Opera Next"

This thread is to inform us on how the Opera Browser develops.

  • Frenzie
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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #50
There are easier ways to add search engines in Firefox. One is built-in: bookmarks. In Firefox they're a sort of blend of Opera's bookmarks and search engine keywords. The second is an extension like URL Alias, which my wife uses. Somewhat ironically imo she occasionally uses Opera to help with the process of URL retrieval for more complex query strings.

  • j7n
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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #51
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  • Last Edit: 2014-04-24, 05:43:20 by j7n

  • Macallan
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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #52

I only use M2 for newsfeeds these days; I don't think I've used it for mail since '08-ish. Like I said, there was virtually no visible development there since Opera 7, while Thunderbird kept improving in the meantime. I currently use Icedove (=Thunderbird).

Speaking of which, does anyone remember the mail client that came with BeOS? It (ab)used the filesystem's database/content indexing features, extended attributes and the filemanager's support for all of that so it didn't actually have a mail overview, folders were actual directories, mails were files in them etc.
Dammit I miss BeOS. Guess I'll check if any of the successor projects got anywhere lately.

  • Frenzie
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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #53
At least Firefox does not use a bloody database for search engines (which are by definition few) like Opium. At first I thought I had to edit the Jason file, until Krake mentioned that he had an XML (with line breaks).

I completely agree. Chromium might well be the epitome of a bad browser. I posted on this very subject last hour:

http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=14992812
Quote from: Frenzie
Quote from: rilef
The "bookmarks" plain text file, if it indeed serves as the QAB database, is the only Opera 18 database I've found that is plain text. That's why I think it's a temporary, quick fix.

Would you rather access your data through SQLite? I've had to do some of that in Firefox. It's a huge increase in complexity with not one single advantage as far as I can see. It just puts the user further away from their data. I can do it, but that's besides the point. If Opera had thrown up database-based obstacles back in 2001 chances are I wouldn't be able to today.

I'm probably wrong, but I prefer to think of it as a first step toward bringing Opera/Presto proper Unix-style plain-text configuration to the overall atrocity of Chromium.



Speaking of which, does anyone remember the mail client that came with BeOS? [...]
Dammit I miss BeOS. Guess I'll check if any of the successor projects got anywhere lately.

Sorry, never used it. I actually have or had a BeOS demo disk somewhere which had the interesting capacity of playing reasonable-quality Xvid (or was it DivX...) video on my Pentium 100 without stuttering.
  • Last Edit: 2013-11-26, 18:56:38 by Frenzie

  • j7n
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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #54
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  • Last Edit: 2014-04-24, 05:43:24 by j7n

  • Macallan
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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #55

Speaking of which, does anyone remember the mail client that came with BeOS? [...]
Dammit I miss BeOS. Guess I'll check if any of the successor projects got anywhere lately.

Sorry, never used it. I actually have or had a BeOS demo disk somewhere which had the interesting capacity of playing reasonable-quality Xvid (or was it DivX...) video on my Pentium 100 without stuttering.

Yeah, actual realtime media playback, processing etc. was one of the stated design goals.

  • ersi
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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #56
Opera ASA is the high-uppest corporate gold sponsor of Linux Mint http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=2472

Now, allegedly Chropera for Linux will be released in March or so. (The official statement I quoted earlier, to take it literally, it would mean we can begin waiting for the Linux version at that time. I personally won't believe until I see it.)

Let's combine these things. I have these questions:

When/If the Linux version of Opera Blink arrives, will it be in the repositories ready to wipe out the Presto version or will it be possible to have it side-by-side with the Presto version?

Will it be sufficiently different from Chrome for anyone of us to use it? Why? (I noticed Frenzie hoping for a sensible Unix-like non-Chromish config&profile files system. I entertain no such hopes.)

Will it be in the repositories at all? I know Chrome is not in the repositories, even though it has packages to suit all the base distros. Then again, Chromium is available and Opera ASA is a gold sponsor of the Linux distro that has been #1 for a year or more on Distrowatch, so...

Place your bets, gentlemen.

  • Frenzie
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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #57
Yeah, actual realtime media playback, processing etc. was one of the stated design goals.

Well, I guess they succeeded. I thought you needed something like a Pentium 200 or 233 at the very least for that kind of performance.

Opera ASA is the high-uppest corporate gold sponsor of Linux Mint http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=2472

I notice it says the gold sponsorship ends on 31 December 2013.

Will it be sufficiently different from Chrome for anyone of us to use it? Why? (I noticed Frenzie hoping for a sensible Unix-like non-Chromish config&profile files system. I entertain no such hopes.)

I'm not sure if I entertain such hopes exactly, but I had no idea the bookmarks were implemented in plain text. I really meant it when I said that was the best news about Chropera I've heard yet.[/quote]

Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #58

Adding a search engine to Firefox wasn't as difficult as I believed. Thanks for your encouragement.

It was still not as intuitive as in Opera. I wish there was a GUI and that the address of the search provider was shown. How is it secure if I let an external party (Mozilla) manage it?

Anyway, to add a search engine I went to
1) Firefox_Directory\browser\searchplugins
2) Created a new XML taking one as a template
3) Set the main URL, deleted the suggest URL and all params
4) Changed all "&" to "&"
5) Encoded an icon to Base 64 with Total Commander; removed all line feeds from it.
6) Deleted %appdata%\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles\code\search.json to regenerate it.

Result.

Quite a bit more steps than with Opera, which also didn't need to be restarted.


Or you can use Web Search Pro

A little intensive (because of the plethora of options & features) for the novice, but I think it will eventually make your search engine aquisitions & manipulations a bit more fun.

  • ersi
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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #59

Opera ASA is the high-uppest corporate gold sponsor of Linux Mint http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=2472

I notice it says the gold sponsorship ends on 31 December 2013.

Indeed:
Quote
As you know our Platinum sponsorship from Blue Systems came to an end and so will our Gold sponsorship with Opera at the end of this year. Losing our two main sponsors is tough...

My estimates tend towards extremely destitute fate for Opera on desktop. I think it will be out of desktop browser business in max three years, on all desktops, even on Mac and Windows.

Google has eaten the heart out of Opera ASA. If there's still some sense in this world, the rest of the corpse will follow rather sooner than later. Then again, Greece has been in absolute bankruptcy for years, financial, political, and moral, but the official announcement is still delayed. So, admittedly there is no sense in this world. But how to translate nonsense into estimates?

Quote from: Frenzie
I'm not sure if I entertain such hopes exactly, but I had no idea the bookmarks were implemented in plain text. I really meant it when I said that was the best news about Chropera I've heard yet.

Reports hitherto indicated that Chropera's profile was perfectly interchangeable with Chrome's (except for extensions; what a queer quirk...). Bookmarks file was a .db like in Chrome. Either they really changed the format, which would whip up your hopes, or it could be that also Chrome/Chromium can read a plain text file in some mode. Have you tried? I haven't :)

Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #60

or it could be that also Chrome/Chromium can read a plain text file in some mode. Have you tried? I haven't :)

I can't be bothered to download Chrome/Chropera for testing but I assume they can read a plain text file.
AFAIK Mozilla can as well.

  • ersi
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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #61
I can't be bothered to download Chrome/Chropera for testing but I assume they can read a plain text file.
I assume then that you are utterly uninterested about Chropera's possible arrival to Linux.

Meanwhile I have gathered a humble list of atrocities that the company committed against its user base this year http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=14997702

- Pushing Mobile v.14 (Chromium) on top of Mobile v.12 (Presto) as a regular update
- Reappearing Google search engine beginning probably at v.12.15 on desktop http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=1648442
- Pushing Opera Mini Smartpage without users' consent http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=1755772
- Google search field in Opera Blink that was removable, but then patched in later version to prevent users from removing it http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/show.dml/86356712#comment111639102
- Using Chrome's tacks to distribute the software: bundling it with other updates on unsuspecting people http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=14997322

All this happened within this year. Isn't this enough to totally demolish the reputation of the company? At least I can't even consider the software any more for ethical reasons...

  • Frenzie
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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #62
I'll copy my response as well:

Quote from: ersi
- Mobile v.14 (Chromium) on top of Mobile v.12 (Presto)

Trust me, I know.
Quote from: ersi
- Opera Mini Smartpage http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=1755772

Wait, what? I occasionally use Opera Mini when I'm not on wifi and I have something of direct importance for me (e.g. bus/tram times). Some stupid "SmartPage" would probably use more than 10 times as much data as the one bookmarked page I check with images disabled. Ugh, that's awful.
Quote from: ersi
Quote from: bcbear86
I found out that when Java was updated, it had an option to install Opera and she didn't uncheck the box.
Quo vadis, Opera? Bejeezus...

I guess I can simply c/p what I said about Google:

http://my.opera.com/chooseopera/blog/show.dml/110522522?startidx=1100#comment113732752
Quote from: Frenzie
Besides a quick check whether you're indeed upgrading Flash and not some malware, who expects an update to install a new browser or some other piece of unrelated software? On top of which, there isn't always a checkbox either. Software companies tend to "forget" that, especially if you set it to update automatically. As if you automatically want to install other crap on your computer.

And if Google is offering money for such practices, why shouldn't one blame Google? Last I checked the person who pays a hitman also goes down for murder. :P

Quo vadis? I think I'll go straight for Et tu, Opera?

  • Frenzie
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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #63
One of Weblink's many decades-old bugs rears its ugly head on Chropera: http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=14997142

With Presto there's always been a steady improvement one version to the next, but with Webkit it always seems like they're too busy implementing the next -webkit-nonsense to fix bugs. Is there any proof yet that Blink's any better?

Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #64

I can't be bothered to download Chrome/Chropera for testing but I assume they can read a plain text file.
I assume then that you are utterly uninterested about Chropera's possible arrival to Linux.

Meanwhile I have gathered a humble list of atrocities that the company committed against its user base this year http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=14997702

- Pushing Mobile v.14 (Chromium) on top of Mobile v.12 (Presto) as a regular update
- Reappearing Google search engine beginning probably at v.12.15 on desktop http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=1648442
- Pushing Opera Mini Smartpage without users' consent http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=1755772
- Google search field in Opera Blink that was removable, but then patched in later version to prevent users from removing it http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/show.dml/86356712#comment111639102
- Using Chrome's tacks to distribute the software: bundling it with other updates on unsuspecting people http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=14997322

All this happened within this year. Isn't this enough to totally demolish the reputation of the company? At least I can't even consider the software any more for ethical reasons...



Very well stated, & quite factually sound ersi -- particularly your linking to citations --- well done!!

  • Frenzie
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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #65
I include below a complete copy of the thread linked by ersi, since someone at Opera appears to have privatized it. [edit]ersi noticed too.[/edit]
----------------------
Opera 18 took my defaults and won't give them back
Quote from: bcbear86
I am running Windows 8 Pro x64 and my daughter installed O18 yesterday and when I went to open certain file types (.rar, .torrent, emails, etc...) They didn't open in the normal program.  I have fixed the .rar and emails, but the .torrent files won't open anymore. I have tried the Windows set default programs to no avail. I have done regedit to check file associations to no avail.  I even pointed the .torrent files to notepad to no avail just to see what happened. Everything was working fine before the O18 install. Please help!!


Quote from: Pesala
To open Torrents you have to use Opera 12.16 or earlier. In Preferences, Programs, Details, check the file types that you want to open in Opera. Check HTML, Protocols, etc., if you want Opera 12.16 to be your default browser again.


Quote from: bcbear86
I just want to put the default back to uTorrent, not Opera. I have already uninstalled Opera to see if that works and no go.


Quote from: LinuxMint7
Right click the .torrent file and select "Open with...", the select utorrent from the program file list that appears and place a tick in the box at the base of the list that says something like "Always use this program" or some such.

I'm not using Windows at the moment, so can not tell you the exact wording.


Quote from: ersi
Quote from: LinuxMint7
Right click the .torrent file and select "Open with...", the select utorrent from the program file list that appears and place a tick in the box at the base of the list that says something like "Always use this program" or some such.

I'm not using Windows at the moment, so can not tell you the exact wording.
Yes, it should work to right-click on a file type, .rar, emails, etc. select a program to open it with and check "Always use this program".

Another possibility. IIRC, there's a setting in utorrent too to make it the default for torrent files. Same with most email programs Open the program up, find the setting and make it the default. With Opera 18 gone, it should stay like this until someone installs this or some other evil program on your computer.


Quote from: bcbear86
...my daughter installed O18 yesterday...


To prevent children from ruining your workspace, have multiple user accounts in your computer and always remember to lock the screen when you are away. I know Windows is not good at separating user accounts and delimiting their permissions. This is one of the important reasons why I moved over to Linux. I have lots of children, siblings, relatives, and neighbours running around in the house. Multiple user accounts with strict permissions became rather vital.


Quote from: bcbear86
Quote from: LinuxMint7
Right click the .torrent file and select "Open with...", the select utorrent from the program file list that appears and place a tick in the box at the base of the list that says something like "Always use this program" or some such.

I'm not using Windows at the moment, so can not tell you the exact wording.



I did this and it went through the motions of changing the default but never actually changed it.


Quote from: ersi
Another possibility. IIRC, there's a setting in utorrent too to make it the default for torrent files. Same with most email programs Open the program up, find the setting and make it the default. With Opera 18 gone, it should stay like this until someone installs this or some other evil program on your computer.



Did this too to no avail. I even tried a System Restore Point and it didn't fix the issue. Ah well, It may be time for a reinstall of Windows


Quote from: bcbear86
Quote from: ersi
To prevent children from ruining your workspace, have multiple user accounts in your computer and always remember to lock the screen when you are away. I know Windows is not good at separating user accounts and delimiting their permissions. This is one of the important reasons why I moved over to Linux. I have lots of children, siblings, relatives, and neighbours running around in the house. Multiple user accounts with strict permissions became rather vital.



I found out that when Java was updated, it had an option to install Opera and she didn't uncheck the box.


Quote from: Krake
Quote from: bcbear86
I found out that when Java was updated, it had an option to install Opera and she didn't uncheck the box.


Could you please provide a link for the location Java was updated from?
I'm asking because I'm not using Java but I would like to check the installer myself.

Thanks in advance.


Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #66
I assume then that you are utterly uninterested about Chropera's possible arrival to Linux.

As it looks for now Chropera isn't an option for me. Wonder if it ever will be.
I have downloaded and tested Chropera 15 beta for ten minutes (cold - no internet connection).
That was my only experience with Chropera and my curiosity got healed for a year at least. So far about the new Blink shell.
What's worst, Opera ASA has lost my respect and trust.
The damage control spin on the (old) Dektop Team Blog was simply disgusting.
I hate double-tongued speach and lies. It's even worse than the crap they try to defend.

The only thing I enjoyed was the fact that they designed and released their new Chropera without bookmarks.
If stupidity would hurt then the noise at Opera labs would be infernal.
Rewriting the code several times must be very funny :)
  • Last Edit: 2013-11-27, 23:21:10 by krake

  • Frenzie
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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #67
I hate double-tongued speach and lies.

Yes! That's what bothers me about Pesala's stay calm and dispassionate messages. Staying calm about some of that drivel is equivalent to swallowing the hogwash.

http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=14992042
Quote from: Frenzie
http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=14810762
Quote from: Frenzie
Quote from: somewhere (unbeknown to me at the time, The Vision Behind Opera 15 and Beyond)
Off-road mode in Opera 15 adds SPDY to the mix so that your pages render even faster.

No, it doesn't. Opera 12.10 already added SPDY (proof, or perhaps the official changelog is more to the point). Whoever wrote that is either ignorant or lying.

The myth that Opera 15 added SPDY is by now well-spread thanks to that very blog post. Not even my tech writer friend bothered to correct his post on Opera 15 when I informally pointed out this falsity, which I find somewhat disconcerting. Orwellian is right: soon the Opera Minitrue will remove these traces of the past to which I link. One of them is scheduled to disappear on March 1, 2014. And with Disqus, the Minitrue doesn't even have to bother deleting anything, because nothing can ever be found that way. It might as well not be there at all.

Some of us are passionate about dispassion. I prefer being passionate about the truth.

Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #68
Quote from: Frenzie of a post he quoted from bcbear86
I am running Windows 8 Pro x64 and my daughter installed O18 yesterday and when I went to open certain file types (.rar, .torrent, emails, etc...) They didn't open in the normal program.  I have fixed the .rar and emails, but the .torrent files won't open anymore. I have tried the Windows set default programs to no avail. I have done regedit to check file associations to no avail.  I even pointed the .torrent files to notepad to no avail just to see what happened. Everything was working fine before the O18 install. Please help!!


That's why I only use Portable Versions of software if I can.

All my browsers are Portable versions. When I install them they are installed into any folder I choose. They have absolutely no Registry appearances or dependencies.

Any & every modification or change I make, or any program/add-on/extension/plug-in makes, to the preferences are in that one folder.

To totally backup the browser, all it's preferences, & all its pieces & parts, I just make a folder called BACKUPS, highlight the folder the browser is in, select copy, & then paste it in its entirety into the BACKUPS folder named & dated so I can have as many backup copies I so wish.......Can't be any easier than that.

If I want to back up other parts or pieces, I copy whatever, & paste it into a logical sub folder in my BACKUPS folder.

To remove the browser, all I have to do is highlight the folder & hit/select delete.

To resurrect any backup, all I do I copy it from the BACKUPS Folder to wherever I wish....it's ready to use immediately....cant be any simpler than that.

No external updates of any browser, or any component of it can mess with it, & if at any time it somehow gets corrupted/messed up, all you need to do is delete it & resurrect your latest backup.

I'm replacing each & every software that becomes available as a portable ---- there are many hundreds of them --- when they become available.

.....They are also great when you want to take it (them) with you wherever you go too!
Just load them up on your USB stick, & when you want your browser say --- exactly as it is was at home --- it's right there to be copied, or simply run directly from your key-chain USB stick.

Portable Browsers & Other Internet Software

Many other Portable Softwares

  • j7n
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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #69
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  • Last Edit: 2014-04-24, 05:42:02 by j7n

  • Frenzie
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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #70
File associations are useful. How else would you open a text file into notepad, or a picture in a graphics editor? Use a one huge honking send to menu that takes a second or two to load?

That's a severe defect of the "portable" philosophy. A truly portable program would allow me to lift it up, plant it wherever I like, and then allow me to use its "make this the default for..." function (if available). Instead "portable" programs tend to gray that out, so you have to use workarounds. I vehemently disagree with e.g. foobar2000 and Opera on this point, both of which thus made their seemingly simple "portable" installer option a timewasting display of uselessness. For Opera/Presto you need to extract the installer file with 7-Zip or use the /singleuser flag. For foobar2000 I forget, but I think it was something like this.

I basically only object to those non-portable software products that operate on large data sets (like video games with large worlds, google earth comes to mind, even though I don't use it anymore) and clutter up the users/ directory. They should have configurable working directory(-ies) for their varying tasks, but instead they dump everything into my users/ path.

On a slightly related note, I once installed... I think it was Microsoft Office 2003. It doesn't really matter what it was, but I told it to install to D:\Whatever because I didn't want it hogging up all my space on C:\.* To my surprise it then proceeded to fill up C:\ with a gigabyte or two of "base files" while only putting a few dozens of MBs on D:\ related to the actual Word, Powerpoint, etc. Makes you wonder what the point of allowing the user to choose a directory is at all.

Something even dumber occurred when I tried Steam back in '04 or '05. I erroneously assumed I'd be able to choose where the program downloaded and where it would try to install things. Not so. It also left a hogging, instability causing(!) process open constantly, so it quickly disappeared from my system.

* On Windows I'd been using a division between /, /home, and to some degree e.g. /bin and /usr for years before I discovered this kind of configuration came with most Linux distros by default. C:\ for OS and perhaps some programs, D:\ for programs that don't require installation to run or for those too large to fit on C:\, and E:\ for my data. This allowed me to wipe and reinstall Windows without really affecting me much.

  • j7n
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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #71
ׂ
  • Last Edit: 2014-04-24, 05:41:48 by j7n

Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #72

I include below a complete copy of the thread linked by ersi, since someone at Opera appears to have privatized it. [edit]ersi noticed too.[/edit]


Thanks for the information, this looks bad. :(


Opera 18 took my defaults and won't give them back
Quote from: bcbear86
I found out that when Java was updated, it had an option to install Opera and she didn't uncheck the box.


Did anybody confirm this?

  • Frenzie
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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #73
Foobar, µTorrent, PDF XChange, Reaper and EmEditor, offer intuitive switches between portable and installed modes, and one doesn't need to re-run the installer to make a switch. They're not that bad.

You can relatively easily make them portable as a switch from being regularly installed as long as you figure out what to put where, but can you do the reverse as easily? Like I said, they tend to gray out the file associations function. (Okay, you can associate files with Windows, but it's a bit of a bother seeing how you can't even resize that window... if there's one thing I hate in Windows it's that too many OS-related windows are unresizable.)


I can probably be grateful to the "portable movement" for causing this change in software, instead of it terminating with an error message like this:

"The application configuration is incorrect. Please run the installer from the original CD."

I don't know about the others I mentioned, but by my definition µTorrent, foobar2000, and Opera have become less portable since the portable movement made them "portable". In each case we're essentially talking about now more-hidden single-profile support. The error of which you speak didn't affect me that much because applications that did so automatically weeded themselves out of my application stack over the years. :)

All partitions can go on hda if there is only one drive, but since temp is stressed hard, it's better on a separate disk from system and programs.

I mount /tmp in RAM. See here.

Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #74

That's a severe defect of the "portable" philosophy. A truly portable program would allow me to lift it up, plant it wherever I like, and then allow me to use its "make this the default for..." function (if available). Instead "portable" programs tend to gray that out, so you have to use workarounds.

It depends on how one defines "portable".
The interpretation I grew up with: All files in one Folder/subfolder(s) which you can put wherever you want and no traces in Windows' registry.
Therefore "portable" is not the recommended option for average users.
Advanced users will be able to make the file associations they want on their own.
I agree that the ideal way is to make options for file associations even in portable software, associations the user can also easily delete if he wants to.
However the above is not a mandatory requirement for portable software IMO.

Under no circumstances should portable software leave any trace in Windows' registry without user approval. That's my understanding of "portable" at least.
As an example, none of Mark Russinovich's utilities is portable even though you don't have to run an installer.