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Topic: What's Going on in Europe (Read 40273 times)

What's Going on in Europe
Portugal is weeping, Geert Wilders Says Netherlands Would Be Better Off if It Left 28-Nation Bloc, France can't compete with Germany, Merkel is pissed at Obama, Belgium is ousting Afgans. Is anybody happy?

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Re: What's Going on in Europe
Reply #25

European economy guide: Taking Europe's pulse
EU figures and forecasts.

GDP growth 2014 & 2015



Public debt

I see, Ersi's doing great, huh?;)

  • jax
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Re: What's Going on in Europe
Reply #26
Does not necessarily follow. Low public debt means no immediate risk of an austerity party like they have enjoyed in Southern Europe. High GDP growth per head implies good business mood, as businesses on the whole make more money than they did last year. So here Estonia looks better than Cyprus.

By European standards Estonia is relatively poor, measured in GDP/capita, below average but well above bottom.



But that map hides regional differences. This map of "Kaufkraft", which this company translates into purchasing power, but really is disposable income, income after tax:


The Iron Curtain is clearly still visible economically.

Furthermore Western Europe is significantly more densely populated. GDP density is population density (number of people/km²) times GDP per capita (GDP/number of people) in GDP/km². This map is 15 years old:


Or country-wise the map could be represented like this (this map is probably of similar age):

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Re: What's Going on in Europe
Reply #27
GDP density is population density (number of people/km²) times GDP per capita (GDP/number of people) in GDP/km². /3rd image/
???
I can't get the meaning of that. What's good and bad there!??

Re: What's Going on in Europe
Reply #28
Not exactly Europe, whatever - watch out for cats during elections!

Elections in Turkey: Power Cuts in 40 Provinces Caused by a Cat :devil:

Quote
I'm not joking, a cat entered into the transformer.
- Energy Minister Taner Yildiz

source

Turkish Energy Minister Taner Yildiz omitted to tell if the cat was a black one.

Re: What's Going on in Europe
Reply #29

Quote
I'm not joking, a cat entered into the transformer.

- Energy Minister Taner Yildiz

I own two cats and one of them is in league with the devil, so I'm with Yildiz.
There's nothing quite like cat videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=S7b1aLY3tyI
  • Last Edit: 2014-04-03, 10:02:24 by Jimbro3738

  • ersi
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Re: What's Going on in Europe
Reply #30

I see, Ersi's doing great, huh?;)




Does not necessarily follow. ----

The Iron Curtain is clearly still visible economically.

That's right. As I mentioned in another thread, a bunch of worldwide commercial websites (such as Amazon and booking sites) treat Estonia (along with the rest of "Middle Europe") more akin to Russia rather than to EU whose members we supposedly are.

Economy and economics are complicated enough, a matter of perception any way you look (yet perceptions matter a lot), but to complicate things further, there are also demographic and social issues.

For example, Russians in Estonia (i.e. people of Russian ethnicity who are Estonian citizens and residents of Estonia) are relatively happy with life in Estonia. It's because of their point of comparison: Russia. Russians in Estonia compare their life with life in Russia. They watch Russian TV and have relatives in Russia, so they know about it. So they know that it's economically comfier to live in what they call Europe. 

Estonians (i.e. ethnic Estonians) on the other hand are very unhappy. It's because they compare with Finland, Sweden and Germany. Laws here are a hopeless mess. Economy is not on a par. The welfare is appalling. Our government participates in the financial assistance funds to Greece and Portugal whose minimum wages equal our arithmetic average wages! Basic worker and family rights/securities that are normal in the West are denied here (or so we imagine). Etc. Also, there's a deep, dangerously sharp estrangement between the government and the people. This again affects only Estonians, not Russians, because Russians pay hardly any attention to Estonian politics. The only local politics for Russians in Estonia is the occasional whining about the fact that Russian is not the first official language in Estonia, but the whining stops as soon as they remember the economic comparison with Russia again. Estonians have no such relief. The result is massive loss of population, emigration of a bigger scope than evacuation during the last war was.

Now, these issues I mentioned are not shown on any map. Not only because it's hard to measure these ethno-socio-geo-demographic perceptions (or whatever name would be appropriate), but also because it's not politically correct. It's not nice to do racism.

  • Belfrager
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Re: What's Going on in Europe
Reply #31
Our government participates in the financial assistance funds to Greece and Portugal whose minimum wages equal our arithmetic average wages!

We need to spend more than you do. Historical responsibilities demands so...
A matter of attitude.

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Re: What's Going on in Europe
Reply #32
I don't like Russians... No kidding!..

Re: What's Going on in Europe
Reply #33
Oops! I forgot to post this essential cat video!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=S7b1aLY3tyI

Re: What's Going on in Europe
Reply #34

I don't like Russians... No kidding!..

Who does?

  • rjhowie
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Re: What's Going on in Europe
Reply #35
Me.  :yes:
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: What's Going on in Europe
Reply #36

Me.  :yes:

"Quit you like men:be strong"

Well you please put a space following the colon!?! It's making me crazier than usual. :insane:

  • Belfrager
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Re: What's Going on in Europe
Reply #37
What's Going on in Europe

Decadence avec elegance.

I wish it could have some elegance and we could finish in grandeur and style, but with bourgeois, nouveau riches and northerners leading, forget it...
A matter of attitude.

  • jax
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Re: What's Going on in Europe
Reply #38
Most decadent countries, according to Bloomberg. 12 out of 13 top countries on that list are European, Australia the exception at #3.

  • ersi
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Re: What's Going on in Europe
Reply #39
Armenia is not a European country in my opinion. And Estonia did not make it to the top 10? What a shameful performance on yet another list.

  • jax
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Re: What's Going on in Europe
Reply #40
First a slight on the Europeanness of Turkey and now Armenia, next you'll tell me Kyrgyzstan is not European. Australia is probably outside the theatre though.

  • ersi
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Re: What's Going on in Europe
Reply #41
I thought of specifying that I was speaking in geographical terms, but apparently I didn't. Anyway, of course there's a smooth transition from geographical definition to cultural sentiments, so that's what makes it you call it a "slight", even though there are hard facts involved. If facts insult you, blame the facts, not me.

Kyrgyzstan is not European. Neither is Turkey. To me Turkey is not even arguable, even though their tiny geographically European possession makes some people think Turkey is culturally European. Now, those people are plainly insulting all logic and reason.

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Re: What's Going on in Europe
Reply #42
Turkey is more European at least than any of the neighbouring LMErn countries.
Is Russia European? Is Greece Asian? Is Israel what?
In such "cultural terms", there's hardly any Atlantic Ocean, huh?

  • Belfrager
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Re: What's Going on in Europe
Reply #43
according to Bloomberg

What can Bloomberg know about decadence... or about anything at all.
A matter of attitude.

  • rjhowie
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Re: What's Going on in Europe
Reply #44
Turkey is more European? Kind of almost ridicules Europe then. This is the country where the Prime Minister tried to stop people having the right to express opinions he doesn't klike on the Net? Now his highest court has contradicted him on this so you can guess what he feels about that. It is directly involved in Syria too. The Amenians who live across the Turkish border in Syria are having a desperate time from the terrorists crossing from wonderful Turkey. Remember this is the same race that had it's own holocaust of a million done in by Turks.

Personally, i don't want Turkey in the EEC. Might be nice for a beach holiday but it is a fruit cake.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: What's Going on in Europe
Reply #45

To me Turkey is not even arguable, even though their tiny geographically European possession makes some people think Turkey is culturally European.

Agreed. So there are things we still can agree on :)
The only thing Turkey might be interesting for the EU is its geostrategic constellation. However this constellation asks also for trouble.
Overstretching the EU with a foreign substance would do more harm than benefit. Besides, the way Erdogan is acting lately, he risks even the preferential partnership Turkey has with the EU.

Re: What's Going on in Europe
Reply #46

Is Russia European? Is Greece Asian? Is Israel what?

The western part of Russia is as European as Poland for that matter.
BTW, what are you considering yourself for? An Asian? An Israeli? Something I miss?

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Re: What's Going on in Europe
Reply #47
BTW, what are you considering yourself for?
Interesting question!
How people identify themselves?.. For this thread's sake, "europeanness" if you let me, is a mirky thing for me. Is such a European what? Christian? Humanist? White? Or is it like a larger Vaterland for some?

  • jax
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Re: What's Going on in Europe
Reply #48
Eurasia is one geographical landmass, Africa is somewhat separate. Eurasia is conventionally divided into Europe and Asia, but the actual conventions have varied over time. You are using an 18th century convention that was politically expedient at the time, while I prefer older conventions.

Culturally Europe and North Africa are extensions of the Middle East. West Asia (roughly similar to the term Middle East, but these terms are vaguely defined as well) and Europe together are one of the three big ones, together with India and China.

That simplifies massively, e.g. South-East Asia would merely be Indo-China, a mix of the two, North Eurasia would be barbarian lands, and people everywhere would be insulted by being grouped with their neighbours and habitual enemies.

Geographically these three are divided by some brutal and near-impassable terrain, deserts and mountain ranges, like Africa is divided by Sahara. The cultural watershed East-West goes in my opinion by Afghanistan. Europe is thus safely in the West, and in the Western-most part of West Eurasia at that.

"Europe" was another Greek invention, as was "Greek". By their conventions Europe ended somewhere in the Caucasus. Armenia and probably Georgia would be in Europe, while Azerbaijan would probably be in Asia. By Greek definitions almost all of Russia would probably end up as Asia, even the "European" west-of-Ural part. Turkey on the other hand would be Europe. Then again the Greeks were unlikely to venture much into today's Russia, they seemed to be more comfortable along the coastline than trekking into the Russian steppes.

Historically, politically, demographically there are no absolute boundaries either. The Phoenician are seen as Asians (but "Europa" was a Phoenician princess, by the Greeks), but had colonies as far west as Portugal. Likewise the Greeks and the Romans went as far east as to squabble with the Persians.

The Ottoman empire, which in many ways defined modern Turkey, was heavily involved in European affairs, but it was predominantly Muslim while Europe had different sects of Christianity. However, excluding the Ottomans would mean excluding the Balkans from Europe, including the Greeks who gave the subcontinent the name.

  • ersi
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Re: What's Going on in Europe
Reply #49

"Europe" was another Greek invention, as was "Greek". By their conventions Europe ended somewhere in the Caucasus. Armenia and probably Georgia would be in Europe, while Azerbaijan would probably be in Asia.

It's true that the border between European and Asian continents is conventional and thus invention, if you want to make it sound controversial, but it's completely untrue that the border is vague or unclear. All three - Georgia, Armenia, and Azerbaijan - are geographically in Asia. This is not debatable and there's no "probably" about it. If you claim differently, you are wrong by any European geography textbook.