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Topic: Key action questions. (Read 1063 times)

Key action questions.
Alt keys don't seem to work.  For instance, [Alt f] doesn't bring up the File menu.  In fact, File appears only as File.  None of the menu options display an underlined access letter.  I assume the problem is on my box but I see no appropriate setting.

"Enter" doesn't seem to work with F2 "Go to Page."  F2 works as it brings up "Go to Page."  However, after typing an address, "Enter" has no effect.  Shouldn't "Enter" take me to the address?

Is it still planned to add alpha access keys to the Bookmarks menu?  I really like the feature in Opera.  Unfortunately, recent releases don't seem to have it.

  • Frenzie
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Re: Key action questions.
Reply #1
As far as I'm aware access keys are currently still not implemented. Also see your own older topic (:D) and issue #510 on Github.

Enter seems to work fine for me in F2. What do you type exactly? I just tried a couple of random servers both with and without http as well as a full link. I didn't check, but I imagine it shares code with the address bar.

Chocimier is working on keywords and extended attributes, hopefully it will be merged before beta1 (along import of Opera bookmarks).


@Emdek, is there any word on this?

Re: Key action questions.
Reply #2
Typing ibm.com and hitting "Enter" does nothing.  Clicking "OK" works.  "Enter" does work with F2 in Opera.

  • Frenzie
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Re: Key action questions.
Reply #3
Odd, it certainly works for me. Did you test what happens with a clean profile? (otter-browser --profile /tmp)

Re: Key action questions.
Reply #4
No, I started Otter with "otter-browser --profile /tmp" and Enter again had no effect.  It's a minor annoyance and I understand that if it occurs on only my box makes it a low priority.

I assumed an incorrect setting as regards my drop-down menu access keys.  That, considering the time since I first questioned them.  IMHO, access keys are 101 and far from a low priority.

I feared/fear Bookmarks access keys will not happen.  I hope they're still on the docket.  If they happen, let me suggest again, don't waste letters on "Bookmark Page..." and "Manage Bookmarks..."

  • vbr
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Re: Key action questions.
Reply #5
Hi,
I can confirm, that in the mentioned dialog (Go to page - F2) the Enter doesn't work on the first press (maybe there is some interference with dropdown list of suggested adresses; after Enter is pressed first, the dropdown list is closed and even the cursor/caret disappears, but the dialog stays open); however, on the second press of  Enter it works ok for me - the dialog is closed and the entered page is displayed.
(Otter weekly 106 32bit, webkit; win7).
regards,
         vbr

  • Frenzie
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Re: Key action questions.
Reply #6
Oh sorry, I accidentally tested on an older version. Yes, it seems that on newer ones the first enter selects the dropdown.

Re: Key action questions.
Reply #7
vbr is right.  I hadn't noticed, but pressing Enter the second time works.

  • Emdek
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Re: Key action questions.
Reply #8
@Emdek, is there any word on this?

I've talked with Chocimier about menus recently, he is planning to give it another try.

"Enter" doesn't seem to work with F2 "Go to Page."  F2 works as it brings up "Go to Page."  However, after typing an address, "Enter" has no effect.  Shouldn't "Enter" take me to the address?

Indeed, it's a regression, most likely introduced by address completion.
Nadszedł już czas, najwyższy czas, nienawiść zniszczyć w sobie.
The time has come, the high time, to destroy hatred in oneself.

Re: Key action questions.
Reply #9
Indeed, it's a regression, most likely introduced by address completion.

I occassionally test Otter to check progress and I'm confused.  Is this intended as permament?  It seems if I don't access the drop-down menu one "Enter" should take me to the entered address.  That's how other browsers work and is better.  And yes, I know it's been mentioned, but still no Alt access keys?

On the plus side, I really appreciate how Otter treats full-screen browsing.  If I'm using full screen and open a new site it stays full screen.  Why other browsers leave full screen makes zero sense to me.

I am also impressed by the app.  I compile almost everything and don't mind the effort.  However, to compile packages as large as QT and qtWebKit for one application is a bit extreme.  So, thumbs up for the app.

  • Frenzie
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Re: Key action questions.
Reply #10
I occassionally test Otter to check progress and I'm confused.  Is this intended as permament?
A regression is an unintended side effect, the opposite of an improvement. So no, it's not. ;)

On the plus side, I really appreciate how Otter treats full-screen browsing.  If I'm using full screen and open a new site it stays full screen.  Why other browsers leave full screen makes zero sense to me.
How do you mean exactly?

Firefox → works exactly as expected.
Qupzilla → doesn't show addressbar but allows you to type in it.

Opera → opening a new tab in full screen doesn't allow you to do much of anything other than use the speeddial, but it doesn't leave it.
Vivaldi → same issue as Opera... something Chromium-related?

Re: Key action questions.
Reply #11
How do you mean exactly?

Firefox → works exactly as expected.
Qupzilla → doesn't show addressbar but allows you to type in it.

Opera → opening a new tab in full screen doesn't allow you to do much of anything other than use the speeddial, but it doesn't leave it.
Vivaldi → same issue as Opera... something Chromium-related?

I'm currently using Firefox which gives me the address bar after I access a new site.  That's no longer full screen.  For instance, if I read this post in full screen, hit F6, type ibm.com and "Enter" I have the IBM site with an address bar.  If memory serves, Qupzilla does something similar.

Otter doesn't do that to my memory.  If I access another site by F2 when in full screen the new site remains in full screen as it should.  Otter does it better.  That's a big plus for me.

I believe Midori also does full screen correctly, but it has no bookmark keywords so I don't take it seriously.  Opera and Vivaldi aren't on my radar. 

  • Frenzie
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Re: Key action questions.
Reply #12
I'm currently using Firefox which gives me the address bar after I access a new site.  That's no longer full screen.  For instance, if I read this post in full screen, hit F6, type ibm.com and "Enter" I have the IBM site with an address bar.
It'll disappear after hovering over it (or of course a quick F11 double press) but one could certainly argue it's odd that it doesn't disappear automatically. However, the way Otter and QupZilla allow you to use the addressbar through the keyboard with F8 and F6, without actually showing it, is certainly worse. It should be shown (temporarily?) or redirected to the "Go to Page or Search" (F2) dialog.

There are two definitons of fullscreen that make sense: without window decorations (but still with toolbars and such) and with content only. Perhaps Firefox' flirtation with both might be somewhat illogical in some ways, but it seems to be fairly close to a good comprise between usability and maximum fullscreen.

At one point my Opera config used to include `Enter fullscreen & toggle this & toggle that || Exit fullscreen & toggle this & toggle that` precisely to achieve full toolbar fullscreen. Just to illustrate that tastes differ. :) (Except on my old 1024 * 600 netbook. There I just wanted full-document fullscreen.)

Re: Key action questions.
Reply #13
It'll disappear after hovering over it (or of course a quick F11 double press) but one could certainly argue it's odd that it doesn't disappear automatically. However, the way Otter and QupZilla allow you to use the addressbar through the keyboard with F8 and F6, without actually showing it, is certainly worse. It should be shown (temporarily?) or redirected to the "Go to Page or Search" (F2) dialog.

Yes, I'm aware the Firefox location bar disappears with user action.  And I do feel it should automatically disappear as does Otter's.  It appears we agree on that.

I don't understand your other point (did you mean Otter and Qupzilla?) as it seems Otter works perfectly logically (aside from requiring a double "Enter" of course).  When I hit F11 the screen goes full screen.  No toolbars or other distractions I don't want.  F2 brings up the location bar and as soon as I process an address it disappears and I go back to full screen.  Otter works perfectly as regards F2 in my book.

Assuming Alt access keys are fixed, something like the menu bar might be a different issue.  For while it's obvious "Enter" means the location bar's function is done, it seems the same can't be said of the menu bar.

I loaded Vivaldi 1.9 and couldn't bring up the location bar in full screen.  F6 brings it up in normal mode but does nothing in full screen.  If I'm right, that makes Vivaldi quite unattractive.  And of course, there's the chrome thing.


  • Emdek
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Re: Key action questions.
Reply #14
@rhubarbpieguy, I simply forgot about that issue, I'm not using that workflow myself...
About Alt shortcuts for menu bar, I'll discuss that with Chocimier, perhaps we will manage to add at least some basic solution.
Nadszedł już czas, najwyższy czas, nienawiść zniszczyć w sobie.
The time has come, the high time, to destroy hatred in oneself.

  • Frenzie
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Re: Key action questions.
Reply #15
I don't understand your other point (did you mean Otter and Qupzilla?) as it seems Otter works perfectly logically (aside from requiring a double "Enter" of course).  When I hit F11 the screen goes full screen.  No toolbars or other distractions I don't want.  F2 brings up the location bar and as soon as I process an address it disappears and I go back to full screen.  Otter works perfectly as regards F2 in my book.
Yes, F2 works fine, but my point is that F8 does not work like F6 in Firefox. :)

(Also, I thought that Otter used to show tabs + addressbar when you went to the top of the screen?)

  • ersi
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Re: Key action questions.
Reply #16
(Also, I thought that Otter used to show tabs + addressbar when you went to the top of the screen?)
At first, yes. It was soon changed to be more like old Opera.

Re: Key action questions.
Reply #17
@rhubarbpieguy, I simply forgot about that issue, I'm not using that workflow myself...
About Alt shortcuts for menu bar, I'll discuss that with Chocimier, perhaps we will manage to add at least some basic solution.

Alt shortcuts would be very welcome but I don't understand why only basic functions would be added.

I admire and support the project.   And I do not want to come across as being snarky or overly critical.  But I view Alt shortcuts as very basic and the lack of such sticks out like a sort thumb.  The same thing applies to the F2 problem.  But I may well be an aberration as I prefer navigating by keystrokes.

I do realize development is harder than responding my saying "please do this."  But, if the F2 problem and lack of Alt shortcuts are remedied I would probably switch from occasional tester to regular user of Otter.  Just my take.

  • Frenzie
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Re: Key action questions.
Reply #18
But I view Alt shortcuts as very basic and the lack of such sticks out like a sort thumb.
It does. Access keys are very important. But I guess that getting them right is quite hard. :)

  • beastie
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Re: Key action questions.
Reply #19
Alt shortcuts would be very welcome but I don't understand why only basic functions would be added. [...] I view Alt shortcuts as very basic [...] I do realize development is harder than responding my saying "please do this."
Check issue #510 on GitHub for some of the details.

  • Emdek
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Re: Key action questions.
Reply #20
@rhubarbpieguy, I've talked about that with Chocimier and it seems that we can give it another try when we will be done with that never ending actions handling rewrite.
It turns out that we just need to add algorithm to use custom text for actions, we have to mark selected letter using & and shortcuts will be handled by Qt automatically (including menu bar).

Quote from: Frenzie
(Also, I thought that Otter used to show tabs + addressbar when you went to the top of the screen?)
At first, yes. It was soon changed to be more like old Opera.
With current master it is possible to show that toolbar also in fullscreen mode.
Nadszedł już czas, najwyższy czas, nienawiść zniszczyć w sobie.
The time has come, the high time, to destroy hatred in oneself.