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Topic: NATO nonsense (Read 4217 times)

  • rjhowie
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NATO nonsense
What a bunch of cold war creation NATO is. It should have been got rid of when the Warsaw Pact lot went. Now troops funnelled into Poland and the Baltic States. When did Russia indicate it wanted to invade the Baltics or Poland? And that clown who is the person in charge of NATO was on television saying how united everyone was. Yet the President of France said publicly that there is no problem with Putin or Russia re France. Greece and Italy said similar - so much for the so-called unity. And the President of the USA came on moaning about how most of the NATO members are NOT spending 2% of their GDP on military.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • rjhowie
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Re: NATO nonsense
Reply #25
Well Belfrager at least you are maintaining a tradition of burning people like at the Reformation......!
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • rjhowie
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Re: NATO nonsense
Reply #26
Now how about this all you NATO freak gung-ho's?........

http://ahtribune.com/politics/1073-engineered-fears.html
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: NATO nonsense
Reply #27
I wonder how many box-tops Mark Taliano had to send in to get his "decoder ring"? :) RT letting you down, RJ? Well, comrade, what did you expect? It's not like they'd allow you to do anything other than toe the "party line." (You could read a book about -- no, wait! What was I thinking? :) No you couldn't.)
I guess RT has failed in its obligation to help you bash your American cousins...

But I look forward to your rants, about Venezuela and Canada! Should be fun.
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
No one listens to me as much as I do and even I have my limits...
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: NATO nonsense
Reply #28
A "money quote" from RT News: "Elections, democracy and even coups don't work, under American [influence]!"
Take it away, Howie... :)

(BTW: Three police officers were killed in Baton Rouge. We heard a lot about that over here; you likely did over there too. Yesterday, three police officers were killed in Alamaty -another Kazakhstan city saw a similar attack- where actual machine guns were used. [Take that, U.S. Democrat anti-2nd Amendment zealots!?] So:
Who's the "gun-crazed" nation? [Hint: The U.S. outlawed machine guns in 1932.]
Might it be countries that have never "experienced" the rule of law?)

Say what you will, RJ, you'd be safer in almost any American city than in Glasgow. And your little girls would be protected by the police here; "over there," not so much.
So, if you want to go it alone -- feel free!

(Another BTW: I note from the commercial promos that Larry King finally found his "bottom"... Wonder what his rehab will consist of? :) Will he have to move to Glasgow -- and gay-marry Howie?)
  • Last Edit: 2016-07-18, 09:21:48 by OakdaleFTL
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
No one listens to me as much as I do and even I have my limits...
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman

  • rjhowie
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Re: NATO nonsense
Reply #29
Typical American redneck ignorance there Oakdale. You deliberately misuse that anti-girl thing that went on down in an d English city a while back - note not Glasgow. Now you try to avoid the gun happy police in your country y quoting a far east incident. There is no comparison at all at the level you lot go on damn guns. Typical answer to obvious flaws in th e wonderful land.

Anyway, sticking to the thread, NATO is a nonsense and an excuse for Western dominance to do what it lies. Now I wonder who leads that stupidity that too much of the West follows?
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: NATO nonsense
Reply #30
I'm noting this gem from the article:

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It is also well documented that the illegal Western sanctions besieging Syria are impacting the legitimate, secular, pluralist, democratic government of Syria...
I'm not sure how the government of Syria can be described a such. What fantasy would does the author live in anyway?

He references the Paul Craig reports that says this:

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. In June 1941 Operation Barbarossa hit Russia with an invasion of four million troops, the majority German component of which were probably the most highly trained and disciplined troops in military history
as an answer to three to four thousand Canadian soldiers being sent to Latvia. Um, Germany was invading the Soviet Union at the time. NATO has no such plans and only a paranoid idiot would dare compared what amounts to a small Canadian army camp to Operation Barbarossa. For comparison, that would be damn close to being Las Vegas invading Russia. Quite literally.  The Nellis Air Force Base Census Designated Place has a population of about that.















"What kind of man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter."
― Terry Pratchett, Going Postal

  • rjhowie
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Re: NATO nonsense
Reply #31
Don't fathom why a mass thing like the WW2 invasion is used as a cover for the NATO nonsense. May I remind that the excuse being given for troops to the Baltics an Poland is protection from Russia. Someone trying to find a stance where Russia said it was after taking the Baltics or Poland is non-existent will be chewing air. Oh and throw in the fact that the majority of States in the NATO farce are making something very obvious that they are being cajoled as they are still not paying the 2%. My further indication of comments from those that do not see Russia as a threat also sutiably ignored.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: NATO nonsense
Reply #32
You're not getting it.  I was referencing the article you posted, which complained about a few thousand Canadians going to Latvia and make a fairly big point that Russia wouldn't be afraid of them. So I noted that the Canadians aren't going there to invade in the first place, unlike the Germans.

I'm sure Putin doesn't like western forces showing in areas that were once part of the USSR. Poor little Putikins should have left his neighbors alone in that case. Taliano accuses the US and Nato of being "predatory" via a primitive critique of neoliberalism (which itself makes little sense in the context of Nato since neoliberalism involves policies such as deregulation and cutting government, reducing taxes, etc and has little to nothing to do with Nato...) If anybody's predatory, it would be Putin's Russia with sending forces to fight on behalf of rebels in Ukraine and annexing Crimea with a referendum done under the duress of occupation.
"What kind of man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter."
― Terry Pratchett, Going Postal

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: NATO nonsense
Reply #33
which itself makes little sense in the context of Nato since neoliberalism involves policies such as deregulation and cutting government, reducing taxes, etc and has little to nothing to do with Nato...
Sang, you know I consider myself a conservative (of the American stripe...). So, I think I can speak about the politics: You meant to say (...or type, which always seems to be more than a chore, for you!) neoconservatives... (It's too late for us conservatives to regain the the term. We are liberals; but the word has been co-opted by "progressives"...who are state-ists and bureaucrats.) Your term "neoliberalism" exists only in your rejected junior thesis...
But I'd like to see NATO dissolved, too.

I'm sort-of surprised to see us agreeing, again. :)
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
No one listens to me as much as I do and even I have my limits...
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman

Re: NATO nonsense
Reply #34
You meant to say (...or type, which always seems to be more than a chore, for you!) neoconservatives..
It wasn't my term, but Taliano's. I was taken aback by Taliano using "neoliberalism" in a ridiculous way I never would. You're correct about the proper term for that type of foreign policy.


"What kind of man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter."
― Terry Pratchett, Going Postal

  • rjhowie
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Re: NATO nonsense
Reply #35
Can I point out midnight that Putin did not invade ukraine - Russian volunteers did. Crimea which hasd been part of the wider russian corner in USSR days had been as I have reiterated taken out and dumped in Ukraine. The majority in Crimea are of russian stock and could not do anything about it in Soviet days. When the referendum was held the vast majority wanted back with Russia and fair enough - even pensioners are better off than under Ukraine. That Referendum was rubbished by the US and West followers who are the same people who backed the Ukrainians who overthrew an elected government! The 2 Eastern provinces of ukraine are again mostly Russian and may I passingly remind that they had one hell of a time in WW2 because most of West ukraine supported the Nazis and had their own SS units.  Russia has publicly made it clear that they did not start an issue to take over those 2 areas but Ukraine is so damn corrupt, economically failing and a disaster they do not want to be part of it. When the illegal coup started ws the East invited to be part of it? - Nope.

So Crimea is happy yo be back where it had been, Russia isn't global imperialistic and you can count the outside bases on a hand unlike somewhere else one can mind of that should be spending more of it's money on it's internal matters and own people.  The French and others were right when they said they did not see Russia as a problem the real one is closer to home in the West. The one success story is the business for military corporate barons.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: NATO nonsense
Reply #36
Can I point out midnight that Putin did not invade ukraine - Russian volunteers did.
If you believe that, than you can wire me a hundred thousand dollars. As it happens, I'm the descendant of old Irish nobility. When Cromwell invaded Ireland, he seized the assets of my ancestor who was the king of Ireland at the time. Those assets are held by the Bank of Britain and have grown in value to over 10 billion dollars through interest owed and all that!  Her Royal Hindquarters has finally agreed to release the funds to me :yes:  All I need you to do is wire me that small fee to release that fortune and when the transaction is completed, I'll send you the equivalent of a billion dollars in British pounds as a token of my gratitude. Think of all you can do with that money!  If you believe Putin T Barnum, you might as well believe my scam :yes:
"What kind of man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter."
― Terry Pratchett, Going Postal

  • krake
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Re: NATO nonsense
Reply #37
Can I point out midnight that Putin did not invade ukraine - Russian volunteers did.
Russian volunteers didn't invade the Ukraine. Don't get trapped in Sang's rhetoric. :)
If Russia would have invaded the Ukraine, Kyiv would be Russian now. ;)
Russian volunteers are just fighting alongside the rebels. Without their help the Right Sector would have flattened the region already.

Re: NATO nonsense
Reply #38
Oh please. Russian Intervention in Ukraine 2014 to present :p

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n 2014, Russia made several military incursions into Ukrainian territory. Beginning with Crimea, Russian soldiers without insignias took control of strategic positions and infrastructure within the Ukrainian territory of Crimea, which Russia annexed after a disputed referendum.[7][62][63][64][65] Subsequently, demonstrations by pro-Russian groups in the Donbass area of Ukraine escalated into an armed conflict between the Ukrainian government and separatist forces of the self-declared Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics. In August, Russian military vehicles crossed the border in several locations of Donetsk Oblast[31][66][67][68][69][70] The incursion by the Russian military was seen as responsible for the defeat of Ukrainian forces in early September.
Plenty of sources all through the article. It is completely without question that Russian interfered with Ukraine and that Russian troops and vehicles were there.

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A significant number of Russian citizens, many veterans or ultranationalists, are currently involved in the ongoing armed conflict, a fact acknowledged by separatist leaders. Carol Saivets, Russian specialist for the Security Studies Program at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, described the role of Russian soldiers as 'almost certainly' proceeding with the blessing and backing of the Russian state, "even if the Russians are indeed volunteers rather than serving military men".[5] Recruitment for the Donbass insurgents was performed openly in Russian cities using private or voyenkomat facilities, as was confirmed by a number of Russian media.[136][143]

....

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August military intervention[edit]
In early August, according to Igor Strelkov, Russian servicemen, supposedly on "vacation" from the army, began to arrive.[180] In late August 2014, according to NATO officials, Russia moved self-propelled artillery onto the territory of Ukraine.[181] Russian soldiers were captured in Donetsk Oblast; Russia claimed that they had crossed over by accident.[182]

Russia was reported to have shelled Ukrainian territory,[183] and Russian military forces were reported to have entered Ukraine near Novoazovsk,[184][185][186

Do you understand yet? Not only were there Russian troops in Ukraine, some were even captured.

I'll let you read through the article for yourself. It's not possible to intelligently deny that Russia was in Ukraine.
"What kind of man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter."
― Terry Pratchett, Going Postal

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: NATO nonsense
Reply #39
It's also not possible to deny that Ukraine was conquered by the Russian/Soviets and remained -until quite recently- a part of their empire... Russia has a long history with Ukraine. The U.S. does not.

p.s.,
I think krake is a German Bolshevik... ;)
--------------------------------------------------
Sorry to drop this in here... But: The Munich attacks haven't been determined to be Islamic terrorism -- yet. Shouldn't it be NATO's job, to "take out" ISIS?
Indeed, shouldn't European nations have recognized that ISIS has declared war on them, too? (I'd smirk -- except my country hasn't done any better... :( )
My condolences, for what they're worth. My president condemned the attacks "in the strongest possible terms". Way to go, O. That'll show 'em!
  • Last Edit: 2016-07-22, 20:59:17 by OakdaleFTL
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
No one listens to me as much as I do and even I have my limits...
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman

  • ersi
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Re: NATO nonsense
Reply #40
Do you understand yet? Not only were there Russian troops in Ukraine, some were even captured.

I'll let you read through the article for yourself. It's not possible to intelligently deny that Russia was in Ukraine.
I suspect that krake thinks that his stronger point is that the current government of Ukraine is illegitimate, unelected and bad for the people. Therefore Russians have full right to send humanitarian missions to help the people in the land that is Russian anyway.

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: NATO nonsense
Reply #41
land that is Russian anyway
This is more true than most Americans will admit. Perhaps even more than a few Europeans would agree.
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
No one listens to me as much as I do and even I have my limits...
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman

  • krake
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Re: NATO nonsense
Reply #42
I'll let you read through the article for yourself. It's not possible to intelligently deny that Russia was in Ukraine.
Very kind of you but it's not worth the bandwidth.
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according to NATO officials
bla, bla, bla...
Wikipedia was never a trustworthy source for research but lately it became more and more the mouthwhore of US propaganda.
BTW, according to NATO spin doctors there isn't and never was a civil war in Eastern Ukraine.
Ukrainian ultra nationalistic battalions aren't shelling residential areas in Donbass. They are fighting against Russian invaders. :)

  • krake
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Re: NATO nonsense
Reply #43
p.s.,
I think krake is a German Bolshevik... ;)
A German socialist but I assume that it does not make any difference to you. ;)

  • Belfrager
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Re: NATO nonsense
Reply #44
A German socialist
I can assure he's not a German National-Socialist.
Just a politically correct 2.0 New German Socialist.
Socialists reproduces like rats, lots of variations.
  • Last Edit: 2016-07-22, 23:09:26 by Belfrager
A matter of attitude.

  • ersi
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Re: NATO nonsense
Reply #45
p.s.,
I think krake is a German Bolshevik... ;)
A German socialist but I assume that it does not make any difference to you. ;)
A Schröderite?

Re: NATO nonsense
Reply #46
Wikipedia was never a trustworthy source for research but lately it became more and more the mouthwhore of US propaganda.
Even as you repeat Russian propaganda. What were Russian troops doing in Ukraine? It was not a humanitarian mission. The world is not as simple as Russia = Good and US = Bad or vice/versa. I'm a critic of American neocon foreign policy myself. The difference is that for some reason you seem to excuse/deny everything Russia does and think everything (including Euromaiden) is America's fault.
"What kind of man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter."
― Terry Pratchett, Going Postal

  • Frenzie
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  • Administrator
Re: NATO nonsense
Reply #47
A Schröderite?
He's a social-democrat, not a socialist. :P

  • ersi
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Re: NATO nonsense
Reply #48
A Schröderite?
He's a social-democrat, not a socialist. :P
This is exactly what I am trying to clarify. Is krake making a distinction between a socialist and social-democrat and what, in his opinion, is the distinction?

  • rjhowie
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Re: NATO nonsense
Reply #49
Quoting Russian propaganda?? And what has America and it's Western go-alongs been doing?  For goodness sake talk about being taken in! Much of the s-called propaganda is misusing actuall happening. I recall for a blatant example when rebels were near the shot down plane and showed one "taking a child's doll amongst the stuff lying about. The attitude by the news suggesting stealing going on. However a month after that I seen another copy of that incident which portrayed what really happened. The man holding the item up then doing the sign of the cross in memory of a child.  The CIA and Pentagon mindsets have been at the propaganda stuff for decades. One point being made here is that if Russia had wanted to invade Ukraine it could have and bashed it within a very short time due to the state that Ukraine is in.  The Russian basher mentality here totally ignores the ne-Nazi past of Ukraine and in the present day the neo-Nazi volunteers of today. They wear SS style emblems and follow much of the same stuff as back in the 1940's. They supervised Nazi camps, murdered and were Hitlerite mad. Today Ukraine is a total shambles so why would Russia want to invade the damn place.  Ukraine also owes Russia mass sums for power supplies and got away with it.

Too many in America want to bash away at Russia as it is a country that imperialistic and corporate America cannot control hence the new Cold war being created.  NATO is just another added excuse for US control of the world and moans about the members not paying what they should. That should tell something that NATO is out of date not needed and another heavy blight on ordinary Americans who are suffering a damaged economy, huge debts, lack of rights and strained living. When the USSR went and russia developed into a capitalist system the money men in the ex-colonies rubbed their hands in glee at another growth in their fortunes but that was not to be. Anyone who does not bend the knee will get economic pressures, cordoned off or damn invaded if not collapsed.

As I have directly pointed out and had to re-emphasise it, Russia has NEVER threatened the Baltic States nor places like Poland with invasion but the brained over there in America can be easily influenced and propagated whatever way the controllers want. Even the constant rubbish about Putin is demeaning to you lot in the political nutjob corner. last year i watched a programme where he was invited to a television studio to have a detailed chat with the reporters there and it showed very well his intelligence. In addition each year he gives a public approach and shown on television where all sorts of questions can be raised and he spends 4 hours answering them all. When it comes to real politics you folk over the pond need a freer chance to be able to use the grey cells rather than have them very carefully taken over by State and clever propaganda expertise. But there again when you see things like the big two Conventions and the childish and immature show put on one has to understand how easy it is for the government mind control experts.

Crimea is happy to be back where it wanted to be and as for you folk your taxes will be swallowed "helping" a country so corrupt, governmental Nazis in power as Ministers and a shambles in economics and being mis-run. You'll never learn.
"Quit you like men:be strong"