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Topic: Another imperialism act in the Middle East (Read 860 times)

  • rjhowie
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Another imperialism act in the Middle East
That the US President fits in well with the tradition of being inherently superior in dropping nearly 60 bombs on a Syrian airbase continues the tradition.

The UN has stated that there is no definite proof as to what actually happened. I did see one report that showed Syrian soldiers entering the place where it is said the chemicals were stored by the IS lot. President Trump as is the tradition makes a big play about the innocents killed by the "bombing by chemicals." Makes bit play of the would-be high moral standing but only a week or so ago the US had to slovenly admit the bombing of civilians and a leading Los Angeles newspaper has said about 200.. Is there a big play on that? Nope so maybe the Russians should act the same way and bomb the 2 US ships that sent to the rockets??

American led West because it can get blocked in the UN Security Council goes and bombs with NO damn proof and should have waited to see if the opposite view that the planes did not droop the chemicals but exploded what was stored in the building. Kind of hypocritical of the US which killed legions in Vietnam years ago with their Orange gas and kids still being killed by it today.  The UN Council is the same place where the US vetoes anything on their Israeli Zionist pals. The added guff that the airport the US bombed is where the supposed stuff came from is a head shaking thing. If that was the case why no gas effecting people on the base, eh?

The propaganda is again something Dr Goebells would smile and clap hands on. No waiting for a proper check just do what the US always does and be so full of itself wanting to control the world that anything goes.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • rjhowie
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Re: Another imperialism act in the Middle East
Reply #25
Hate? how definitively pathetic. You cannot answer the obvious. Oh and by the way the White Helmets are not all as innocent either dear partly educated ex-colonist. That London group is no middle of the road innocent thing. Try answering direct points instead of dancing. To make it easier in the hope you might be passingly sober I will make it easier.
- The US and Agent Orange in vast quantities and repeated with people still dying.
- The recent US bombing of civilians reaching an estimated 200 dead (more than this anti-Syrian accusation.)
-Remember the Iraq accusations that were false and made up causing that country to become the mess it is.
-The Syrian base bombed is active again and the US made a codswallop of the 59 rockets.
-The time the Serbian capital bombed and a mess made including the Chinese embassy mess.
-Moaning from America at the UN Council  but has a long list of blocking Israeli action at that corner.
-US going on about principles when it does not practice such a thing itself in the world or internally.
-Why was bombing the Syrian airfield part of the "defence of the US?"
-Hate. When it comes up with the US it is against any country that does not give in to it's corporates or take-over.
- Why does the country need 16 security organisations and spend half the Earth's military bill?

See how easy I am giving you a list so might be able to get your mind to work on something instead of the childish nonsense in your corner? Hardly surprising that US governments are concerned about education standards as you falkl well into their worries.  Instead of daft and immature stuff trying to face things and the definite points....... :wait:
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: Another imperialism act in the Middle East
Reply #26
The US and Agent Orange in vast quantities and repeated with people still dying.
Agent Orange was a defoliant which did the job... The Ho Chi Minh Trail was costing a lot of lives! (Your little boys' weekend excursions were something different; you always stayed away from dangerous situation...)
The recent US bombing of civilians reaching an estimated 200 dead (more than this anti-Syrian accusation.)
I've not really heard of this: Would you provide a link? (But I won't guarantee that I'll engage in a "tit-for-tat" argument...)
Remember the Iraq accusations that were false and made up causing that country to become the mess it is.
Oh, I certainly do! Saddam doesn't, for obvious reason.
The Syrian base bombed is active again and the US made a codswallop of the 59 rockets.
You're an astute military analyst, RJ! I bow to your obvious expertise!
The time the Serbian capital bombed and a mess made including the Chinese embassy mess.
The 30-years War!
Moaning from America at the UN Council  but has a long list of blocking Israeli action at that corner.
How many times has Israel attacked its neighbors, compared to how many times its neighbors have attacked it?
US going on about principles when it does not practice such a thing itself in the world or internally.
Huh?
You of all people trying to bring up hypocrisy!
Why was bombing the Syrian airfield part of the "defence of the US?"
For one thing, the U.S. has almost 1,000 troops in Syria... The "message" that Obama didn't send is simple: No chemical weapons! Trump means it.  Our soldiers should not be subjected to such -- nor should anyone else; indeed, they will not be, without dire consequences.
(For you, RJ, that means you'll post some mean stuff... For us, it means something else.)
Hate. When it comes up with the US it is against any country that does not give in to it's corporates or take-over.
Incomprehensible babble... Knee-jerk anti-Americanism.
Why does the country need 16 security organisations and spend half the Earth's military bill?
First, your country (and many others...) have as many...
We have so much, because the rest of you spend so little! (I think Trump mentioned this, during the campaign...)

Your points are -as always- your prejudices. Good luck, boy-o! But, of course, you won't have to suffer from or deal with the Caliphate...
What, BTW, is Britain or Europe doing... ? (I mean, besides importing jihadis)

What, I wonder, will you say when the facts come out about the poison gas attack in Syria?

You'll kiss Putin's ass, because that's what you do! :)
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Feel free to respond in the Infrastructure or Urban Affairs thread...
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
No one listens to me as much as I do and even I have my limits...
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman

  • krake
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Re: Another imperialism act in the Middle East
Reply #27
BTW, the same applies for the White Helmets.

Inside the Shadowy PR Firm That's Lobbying for Regime Change in Syria
How the White Helmets Became International Heroes While Pushing U.S. Military Intervention and Regime Change in Syria
You sure do prattle on, boy! :)

(Seriously, krake, AlterNet??)
I can serve more.
BTW, don't expect to find this in 'trusted' sources like the NYT or the WaPo. Only someone birdbrained would. :)

- The White Helmets are Funded by the United States
- The White Helmets Were Involved With Depriving Five Million Civilians of Water Supplies in Aleppo
source

White Helmets Funded By US, UK, EU and Qatar governments


The White Helmets - al Qaeda with a facelift

  • rjhowie
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Re: Another imperialism act in the Middle East
Reply #28
They are meant to be answers Oakdale? Duh.

That Agent Orange thing was a great thing really shows the disgusting hypocrisy, It was sprayed in vast amounts over large territory and the US did not care a damn or that the results would effect children and future families - even effected some US military, There is no proof that Syria dropped chemical bombs and I did see one tv report that showed Syrian soldiers going into that building and showing what was found to be in the place. America and the West just immediately jumped on an excuse that Assad was to blame and not prepared to wait for an investigation. Not very mature or sensible at all. As for not being fully aware of the recent US bombing in Syria I watched a news report that had senior US military at first trying to act daft then doing a little bodyswerve when pushed on it. But there again the media over there is far from being professional or as informative except when strings are pulled.

As for your pal Israel you fund the damn place and it's military. Time after time when dodgy Israeli action takes place when it comes to the UN Council the USA does an immediate block. Mossad about a decade ago was after an Arab in the Middle east they reckoned was a terrorist leader and stole British and Australian passports to use as cover for Mossad agents who then killed the man.  Israel has stolen large amounts of land and it does not belong to them and build more and more houses. The present governing coalition led by that mad git is Zionist to the point of intellectual embarrassment. What Israel does on it's expansion is little different from what Hitler did stealing land in Europe. America is so tied up with Zionist Israel due to deep and silly evangelical leanings and the hard fact that Judaism is such a big think in the corporate corner and that is what runs America not the Congress as such. Oh and as a passing note each time a new President comes in at some point it is almost  routine for him to go and speak at a national Jew conference in America. hhhmmm.

Instead of thinking you have some inbuilt right to control or run the world instead of looking after the sad and depressing lives of many inside your country that contradict the nationalist guff shows the hypocrisy. Get yourself a white helmet. :rolleyes:
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: Another imperialism act in the Middle East
Reply #29
(You'll find my answer here... :) I guess it doesn't matter to you: You say the same thing in every thread!)
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
No one listens to me as much as I do and even I have my limits...
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman

  • rjhowie
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Re: Another imperialism act in the Middle East
Reply #30
That is because you do the same thing all the time and don't answer properly at all. As I once said a while ago that it is good in sense that the head shrinking industry is so big over there as brain dead is a sad thing for so many. Must now get round to organising my wee visit to Ulster by plane although takes me slightly nearer nutjobland!
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: Another imperialism act in the Middle East
Reply #31
That is because you [...] don't answer properly at all.
Your questions are almost always of the form: "When did you stop beating your wife?" :)
Have fun in Ulster, I guess. (Be forewarned: There might still be some Catholics lurking in the shadows...)
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
No one listens to me as much as I do and even I have my limits...
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: Another imperialism act in the Middle East
Reply #32
What intrigues me is the simple question: What does Russia get out of it?
The speculation that I find most appealing is that Putin has decided that Assad is more of a liability than an asset...

And, BTW, if Russia takes control of Syria -- that's not such a bad thing. It's not good; but there are a few worse alternatives.

... (Are you listening, Trump State Department?)
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
No one listens to me as much as I do and even I have my limits...
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: Another imperialism act in the Middle East
Reply #33
(Does nobody else see the hypocrisy of a "Great" Britain railing and ranting against imperialism? :)

Of course, RJ is immune to charges of hypocrisy: He doesn't know the meaning of the word; it's., after all, English -- a foreign language.
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
No one listens to me as much as I do and even I have my limits...
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: Another imperialism act in the Middle East
Reply #34
There's an outside chance that Russia has an ace up it's sleeve:
If it's time for Assad to go, will the U.S. acquiesce to Russia taking control of Syria? I think we will, and that we should. (The so-called Iranian-Russian comfort zone is not sustainable...)
But what do I know? :) 
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
No one listens to me as much as I do and even I have my limits...
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman

  • Belfrager
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Re: Another imperialism act in the Middle East
Reply #35
If it's time for Assad to go
Ah... an if before. An improvement.
A matter of attitude.

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: Another imperialism act in the Middle East
Reply #36
Two things are obvious: Russia needs warm-water ports; and the U.S. -outside of the ISIS presence- has no national interest in the Syrian civil war.
(I'd argue that Obama's "red line" comment and then his vacillation and inaction (politically) required the Trump administration's action. Putin will understand this...)
Would U.S. military planners prefer that Russia not have a big presence in the middle East? Sure. But we survived the '60s and '70s... You don't get the world you want; you get the world that previous actions have shaped.
(You can take that as an admission, Bel. So can Putin.)
Russia is back, big-time, in the middle East... Our goal -the U.S. "position"- should be focused upon separating Russia from Iran.

But what do I know? :(
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
No one listens to me as much as I do and even I have my limits...
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman

  • krake
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Re: Another imperialism act in the Middle East
Reply #37
the U.S. -outside of the ISIS presence- has no national interest in the Syrian civil war.
At least this is the official mantra we are told. ;)
Leme tell you - there is no spot on this planet the U.S. doesn't have 'national' interest.

(I'd argue that Obama's "red line" comment and then his vacillation and inaction (politically) required the Trump administration's action. Putin will understand this...)
Obama's "red (rat) line" was based on fishy assumptions at best or a false flag operation at worst.
We are witnessing the same farce now. It's naive to think that Putin has much understanding for it.

Our goal -the U.S. "position"- should be focused upon separating Russia from Iran.
It seems that you lost focus many years ago.
In your continuous and reckless attemt to impose the world your own 'rules' and to choke Russia, you managed to weld Russia and China together.
Compared to this fantastic achievement, Iran (whom btw you did a great favor by invading Iraq) is almost nonsignificant.

  • jax
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  • Global Moderator
Re: Another imperialism act in the Middle East
Reply #38
Isolating Iran is no longer a viable strategy, if it ever was. Even though you have the entire Arab world with you, as you had even before Iran got into power in Iraq, it never got to a North Korean or even Cuban level of isolation, and both those regimes are still there.

If on the other hand, as it seems, you fear Muslims more than you fear Iran, you should be thrilled, as they are deeply divided Iran vs Saudi Arabia vs "clan Muslim Brotherhood", and as Iran gets stronger, so does the division.

The division between the rulers and people of Iran is strong as well. The priests are not good at governing, and they are not popular, but they know how to stay in power. Over the decades their propaganda has taken great strides as well. It was North Korea level amateurish, but now they frame stories widely believed (or maybe people are just getting more gullible, or both).

Unlike NK and Cuba Iran is very attractive. Not only Russia, but India and China, even the EU are courting them. Pakistan tries to be on the good side of both the Iranians and the Saudi. The only thing to stop Iran from greatness is incompetence, something they got plenty of.

  • rjhowie
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Re: Another imperialism act in the Middle East
Reply #39
You got an affixation about RC's Oakdale? Perhaps more of an excuse to cover the hard truth of my list.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: Another imperialism act in the Middle East
Reply #40
Your list of half-facts match your half-wits, RJ; which explains why you repeat it everywhere... What, pray-tell, did you intend to spell when you typed "affixation"? (I have a good idea; but I'd like to see your interpretation! :) )
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
No one listens to me as much as I do and even I have my limits...
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman

  • krake
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Re: Another imperialism act in the Middle East
Reply #41
Another thing about Russia's reaction:
Quote
Apparently all 50 Tomahawks struck home. Assuming that to be true, several deductions are possible.

First, those are slow missiles. Top speed, about 500 miles per hour. They are very accurate, but they are slow. They were in the air for at least half an hour. They went past areas defended by Russian missiles of SA-6 and newer, any of them capable of shooting down a slow cruise missile like a Tomahawk. It is unlikely that the fleet of 50 Tomahawks, fired in a time on target pattern, were not observed; but so far as I know, not one was intercepted.
(This, from Jerry Pournelle... You can find his stuff easily.)
Whoever  Jerry Pournelle is, the above quoted part from his article is plain garbage.
- It weren't 50 but 59 Tomahawks, according to the Pentagon at least.
- Those Tomahawks are anything except accurate.
- Why those Tomahawks weren't got intercepted: Russian Air Defense and the US Strike on Al-Shayrat

  • rjhowie
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Re: Another imperialism act in the Middle East
Reply #42
Half facts. How utterly stupid as you know fine well all happened and in proper use of grey cells can deny it. Patter all you like smarty but they were all true.

On the Syrian situation yet again we in the West jump feeling we have sole use of principles and righteousness and that includes at the UN Security Council. The comments for example by both the US and UK ambassadors were stupid and out of sense. There should be a proper and effective investigation by the UN and with Syria's co-operation. That the US goes on and bombs before such is arrogance, What one wonders is what if an investigation shows that Syria was right and Trump, etc wrong? No chemicals at the air base by the way and the bombing was so brilliant that the base was operational the next day! We got this attitude regarding Hussein and all the dead and destruction on jumping the gun and lies. We would if follow the West's nonsense end up with a mess just like Iraq and Libya for good examples.

What a clever world we have in that if in the general picture Syria in the bombing kill occasional civilians but somehow that does not happen with the US/Allies?? Regularly the US bombed and killed scores of civilians in Afghanistan and the so wonderful marines guilty of mayhem. For now i will stick by the assertion that the Syrian air-force in it's bombing was not aware of what might be stored by the evil terrorists and that is the situation until prove otherwise. The UIS is doing the same guff as it did with the Russians invading the election. Yak and yak but not a bit of damn proof so I will wait and that Syria will co-operate with any UN look.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: Another imperialism act in the Middle East
Reply #43
Is the UN or Russia (...or even Syria) actually "investigating"...?
I'll wait, too. (They're still trying to determine the culprit of the 2013 attack...)
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
No one listens to me as much as I do and even I have my limits...
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman

  • jax
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  • Global Moderator
Re: Another imperialism act in the Middle East
Reply #44
Syria war: Anger after Russia vetoes resolution at UN

Quote
Russia has vetoed a draft resolution at the UN Security Council that would have condemned last week's alleged chemical attack in Syria and demanded that Damascus cooperate with investigators.
The resolution was presented by the US, UK and France, who reacted angrily to Russia's decision.
It was the eighth time Russia has protected its ally at the council.
The suspected chemical attack on rebel-held Khan Sheikhun on 4 April killed more than 80 people.
Western allies blamed the Syrian government of Bashar al-Assad and US President Donald Trump ordered missile strikes against a Syrian air force base in response.
The proposed resolution would have backed an investigation on the ground by the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons.
The Syrian government would have been told to provide military information, including flight logs, from the day of the alleged attack, and provide access to air bases.

  • krake
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Re: Another imperialism act in the Middle East
Reply #45
Maybe it would be fair to know the reason why Russia has vetoed that draft resolution.
So let's also see Russia's take on the issue:
Quote
"The main objection to the resolution is that it apportioned blame prior to an objective outside investigation of the incident... The outcome of the vote was predestined, because we disagreed categorically with a document that was fundamentally misconceived," said Vladimir Safronkov, Russia's deputy envoy at the Security Council, who also accused other states and international organizations of making "no effort" to inspect the site of the alleged attack.
source

BTW, the request to provide access to military bases reminds me of a similar request made to Saddam (which he agreed). We all know how it ended...

  • ersi
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Re: Another imperialism act in the Middle East
Reply #46
Actually the resolution called for the Syrian government to cooperate with the investigation, without placing prior blame. The problem (for Russia and Syria) is that any independent investigation would squarely place the blame on Assad. Everybody knows this. The solution (for Russia and Syria) is to blame everyone for placing the blame prior to "objective investigation", knowing full well that there can be no investigation without Assad's cooperation.

  • krake
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Re: Another imperialism act in the Middle East
Reply #47
The problem (for Russia and Syria) is that any independent investigation would squarely place the blame on Assad.
Any independent investigation would squarely place the blame on Assad?
What's the rationale of your above statement, except your Russophobia?

  • ersi
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Re: Another imperialism act in the Middle East
Reply #48
And what's the rationale for blocking investigation?

Sure, the situation is not easy. If Assad commanded the country better, he would be more permissive. The West knows that he is not in position to allow more interference than he has already been subjected to, but he is still being pressured for more.

  • krake
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Re: Another imperialism act in the Middle East
Reply #49
And what's the rationale for blocking investigation?
Don't mix up independent investigations of that incident with giving a carte blanche for free access/spying to Assad's military bases.
No sane person would agree to the latter.

The same lame allegations like those three years ago. (The Red Line and the Rat Line)
Cui bono?
Quote
A series of chemical weapon attacks in March and April 2013 was investigated over the next few months by a special UN mission to Syria. A person with close knowledge of the UN's activity in Syria told me that there was evidence linking the Syrian opposition to the first gas attack, on 19 March in Khan Al-Assal, a village near Aleppo. In its final report in December, the mission said that at least 19 civilians and one Syrian soldier were among the fatalities, along with scores of injured. It had no mandate to assign responsibility for the attack, but the person with knowledge of the UN's activities said: 'Investigators interviewed the people who were there, including the doctors who treated the victims. It was clear that the rebels used the gas. It did not come out in public because no one wanted to know.'