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Topic: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland? (Read 30561 times)

  • jax
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What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
So what is happening in those barely populated areas linked to the North Atlantic ocean?

  • Frenzie
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Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Reply #1
People are tweeting about what Sweden means: http://www.thelocal.se/20140820/readers-sound-off-sweden-in-a-tweet

  • ersi
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Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Reply #2
Fairly lively area actually. Just look at all those tweetings from there!

This is what happens when a walrus falls asleep on a surfacing submarine...

Russian submarine, btw.



  • jax
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Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Reply #3
Having moved from Norway to Sweden I've experienced some culture shock even though I am technically a Swede. More than China I wouldn't know (though Japan and Finland score much higher as strange places in the world), but I am adjusting, I think.

This list of Swedish words correspond nicely to Norwegian words (that have all except 8 on the list), don't know about Dutch or German. [Well it should be a list, but to maximise click-throughs/annoyance it is a carousel instead. Keep on clickin']
  • Last Edit: 2014-08-27, 11:05:34 by jax

  • Belfrager
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Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Reply #4
Walrus? We call those animals Morse...
Or those are Sea Lions? whatever, very good picture - the power of such strange animal sleeping over the power of steel...
You can remove the Russian out of it, photoshop him.
A matter of attitude.

  • Frenzie
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Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Reply #5
This list of Swedish words correspond nicely to Norwegian words (that have all except  8) , don't know about Dutch or German. [Well it should be a list, but to maximise click-throughs/annoyance it is a carousel instead. Keep on clickin']

1. Tandkött (gums, lit. teeth meat): tandvlees/Zahnfleisch (teeth meat)
2. Ogräs (weeds, lit. ungrass): onkruid/Unkraut (unherb, not ungrass; Dutch wiet also means weed but has switched its meaning to the weed/pot/cannabis type of meaning)
3. Tjuvlyssna (eavesdrop, lit. thief listen): afluisteren/abhören (something like offlistening/offhearing, I suppose)
4. Sjukhus (hospital, lit. sickhouse): ziekenhuis/Krankenhaus (sickhouse)
5. Grönsak (vegetables, lit. greenstuff): groente/Gemüse (but really, greens/greenstuff is English too... anyway, I'm not really sure what the German word Gemüse means literally)
6. Sugrör (straw, lit. suckpipe): rietje/Strohhalm (reed/straw, and I know that rör also means reed/straw besides pipe, so really this isn't nearly as different as claimed anyway; I believe Germans also say Trinkhalm, i.e. something like drinkstraw)
7. Bröstvårta (nipples, lit. breastwart): tepel/Brustwarze (maybe there is some ancient etymological relationship between tepel/tip/nip/nipple?)
8. Bajskorv (poop, lit. poop sausage): poep/Scheiße (poop/shit... well, Dutch also has the more vulgar word schijt, but German Pup means something else I believe. I'm not familiar of any kind of sausage poop in either language.)
9. Blåmärke (bruise, lit. blue mark): blauwe plek/blauer Fleck (blue spot)
10. Dammsugare (vacuum-cleaner, lit. dustsucker): stofzuiger/Staubsauger (dustsucker)

As a general comment, the author seems to forget that several of those English terms are simply the literal Latin or French terms. They're just opaque because they're (still!) foreign to English. Well, of course vegetable means something like growthing rather than greenthing, but I hope you get my point.
  • Last Edit: 2014-08-27, 12:07:49 by Frenzie

  • ersi
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Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Reply #6

3. Tjuvlyssna (eavesdrop): afluisteren/abhören (something like offlistening/offhearing, I suppose)

thieve-listen


6. Sugrör (straw): rietje/Strohhalm (reed/straw, and I know that rör also means reed/straw besides pipe, so really this isn't nearly as different as claimed anyway; I believe Germans also say Trinkhalm, i.e. something like drinkstraw)

literally suck-pipe, confide dammsugare

  • Frenzie
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Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Reply #7
Sorry, I didn't copy all the text from the badly navigable website. Between parentheses I was just explaining the Dutch/German specifically while occasionally commenting on English and Swedish in general, not speculating about what the Swedish might mean. I'll see if I can fix that up a bit in an edit.

I think that in Swedish a suckstraw (as in a real straw made out of some kind of grass-like plant) and a suckpipe could both be the exact same word? That is, a difference with the English word straw might be purely imaginary and a consequence of switching to paper and plastic, except that in English it's a drinking straw rather than a sucking straw.

Besides which, if you interpret rör as generic "pipe" in texts written a few hundred years ago, that would mean that English was "hilariously literal" by using straw while Swedish was hilariously abstract. Or something. :P
  • Last Edit: 2014-08-27, 12:08:21 by Frenzie

  • krake
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Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Reply #8

Walrus? We call those animals Morse...

Ole, la morsa :)
Well, in German it's "Walross" and it's deriving from two words: Wal (whale) + Ross (steed/horse)


Or those are Sea Lions?

Nope, that's a different animal :)  In German "Seelöwe": See (sea/lake) + Löwe (lion)


Tjuvlyssna (eavesdrop, lit. thief listen): afluisteren/abhören (something like offlistening/offhearing, I suppose)

I would say that "belauschen" would come closer. "Abhören" relates rather to what some three-letter agencies do. ;)

  • ersi
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Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Reply #9
Reportedly, Sweden signs today and Finland next week something called Host Nation Support agreement with Nato. It's a considerable step to closer ties with Nato for both. Norway has been a Nato member since the inception of Nato, but Sweden and Finland have pretended to be neutral thus far. It should be evident that this rapprochement is due to perceived increasing aggressiveness of Russia, of which Ukrainian events are a symptom.

  • Frenzie
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Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Reply #10
I would say that "belauschen" would come closer. "Abhören" relates rather to what some three-letter agencies do.

Beluisteren can be a synonym of afluisteren in Dutch depending on context, but in Dutch afluisteren is definitely the default. Semi-false friends, I suppose. Also, beluisteren can be synonymous with neutral luisteren.

een concert beluisteren == naar een concert luisteren
(belistening a concert vs. listening to a concert)

But if you belisten an enemy, you're eavesdropping on them.

  • Belfrager
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Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Reply #11
Norway has been a Nato member since the inception of Nato


Another mission for the French-Canadian ace of aviation.
A matter of attitude.

  • ersi
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Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Reply #12
Followup to the news
Russian politico: Finland and Sweden no longer NATO-neutral countries

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NATO membership will be the next logical step for Finland and Sweden following their signing of a Host Nation Support Memorandum of Understanding with NATO, says the chair of the Russian Duma's Foreign Affairs Committee. The comments by committee chair Aleksey Pushkov were reported Wednesday by the state news agency Itar-Tass.


The battlelines have been drawn. The war in the region is not an if but when, and the plan is to have a unified front against Russia.

  • jax
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Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Reply #13
At the time, after WWII, a Nordic military alliance was mooted, moot when Denmark and Norway put the North into NATO.

Speaking of NATO countries, the Iceland threat that's been on again and off again is back on again.

Quote from: BBC
The fissure eruption took place between Dyngjujokull Glacier and the Askja caldera, a statement from the Department of Civil Protection said.

The area is part of the Bardabunga system.

"Scientists who have been at work close to the eruption monitor the event at a safe distance," the statement added.

"The Icelandic Met Office has raised the aviation colour code over the eruption site to red."

It added that no volcanic ash had so far been detected but a coast guard aircraft was due to take off later to survey the site.

  • jax
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Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Reply #14
Quote
NATO membership will be the next logical step for Finland and Sweden following their signing of a Host Nation Support Memorandum of Understanding with NATO, says the chair of the Russian Duma's Foreign Affairs Committee. The comments by committee chair Aleksey Pushkov were reported Wednesday by the state news agency Itar-Tass.


The battlelines have been drawn. The war in the region is not an if but when, and the plan is to have a unified front against Russia.


Nah, the situation in the North is stable. Russia could pose a credible temporary threat to the Baltic States. Russia could take these small countries faster than allies could react, a potential instability, but strategically that wouldn't make sense. Not only is Russia overall militarily weaker in this region, the benefits Russia is reaping from the friendly relationship far overwhelm the benefits, military or otherwise, from an invasion. In other words, not only would it fail, it would be stupid even if it succeeded.

Sweden and Finland know this, and can be less circumspect in their relationship to Russia than they were during the Cold War.

The calculation is different in Ukraine that is moving into the EU sphere of influence.  There's a thread about that.

  • jax
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Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Reply #15
This is also Sweden. For decades Sweden has taken in refugees from Iraq and Syria, a flow that increased after the Iraq wars, and Stockholm/Södertälje is becoming a world capital of Assyrians/Syriacs.

National team losing its nation
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The stadium is empty of the Assyrians. The place is desolated. The wind is howling like a hammer. No one is here, and it is not surprising. Assyriska FF has neither training nor match today. Yet there is a parallel to make, a connection extending from the safe streets of Sweden to the infernal Iraq.

For the first time in almost 2,000 years, the church bells have stopped ringing in Nineveh. The city is empty of Assyrians. The place is desolated. The wind of evil howls like a hammer upon the minority who now face extinction. The people have been forced to choose between escaping, converting to Islam - or die.

What once was called Assyria? Now there is only Assyriska, the team that has been the stateless peoples national football team for forty years.

This autumn, the Assyrians are fighting two great battles. Both are about survival. There are more than 3000 kilometres between Södertälje and Nineveh - the new and old capital of the Assyrians - but there is no difference between this club and this people. [...]

Assyriska are in the bottom of the league and still without a victory in Södertälje Football Arena - but the loss of the home is worse than the losses at home. The Assyrian award-winning journalist Nuri Kino explains:

- Our people - Assyrians, also called Syriacs and Chaldeans - and the Yezidis, were previously the majority of the Nineve Plain, which is emptied of its population. Our churches are being destroyed, our women and children are being kidnapped. It is enough. The world needs to open its eyes.

How serious is the situation?
- Alarming.

While the Assyrian Federation of Sweden is actively working to shed light on the difficult situation of the Assyrians, Kino runs the global campaign "A Demand for Action." Together with members in 15 countries, he is working to get refugees sheltered.

Kino is doing his best to get the world to act. So does the supporters of the club.

A few weeks ago, Assyriska went to the Swedish capital to face Hammarby at Tele2 Arena. The supporters wore shirts with the Arabic letter "N", the same letter as the terrorist organization IS painted on the Christian homes in Iraq, just like the Nazis did to the Jews during The Holocaust. "N" stands for "Nasrany", which means Christians.

Kino talks about a reaction to this action:
- The priest Ashur Elkhouri published a picture of himself where he bows his head for his national team for what it did during the game against Hammarby. Normally, a priest bows his head only to God, so evidently the feelings were very strong. I was at a meeting in a church in Los Angeles when the game was played, and the action made many in the church cry. [...]

The team captain David Durmaz tries to pinpoint the problem. He played in Assyriska during the time in Allsvenskan and thinks that the club has a very different spirit now compared to ten years ago. Back then, the short passings were a bit faster, the sharpness a bit edgier, the organization a bit more more professional. Now Assyriska creates chances without winning. Now they have to turn the tables as a united club. But off the field?

- On the way to our last game against Degerfors, our midfielder George Makdessi showed me a YouTube clip on his cellphone. His own cousin, with the same last name, completely exhausted and wounded by gunshots is lying in a bed. An IS-flag is seen and someone asks him in Arabic what his name is, what army he was an officer for ... After a while, the clip ended. George said that the man's father had received photos a few days later. The pictures are showing the man lying in bed - beheaded.

  • ersi
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Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Reply #16

Nah, the situation in the North is stable. Russia could pose a credible temporary threat to the Baltic States. Russia could take these small countries faster than allies could react, a potential instability, but strategically that wouldn't make sense. Not only is Russia overall militarily weaker in this region, the benefits Russia is reaping from the friendly relationship far overwhelm the benefits, military or otherwise, from an invasion. In other words, not only would it fail, it would be stupid even if it succeeded.

Two pieces of news for you: 1. The motives behind wars are often stupider than politics in general. Surely you acknowledge that politics in general demonstrate below average rationality. Wars are even more stupid.

2. Russian aircrafts have violated Finland's airspace three times just this week. The airspace violations have gone up from monthly to almost daily.

  • jax
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Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Reply #17
the Iceland threat that's been on again and off again is back on again.
And back off again.

  • jax
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Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Reply #18

Two pieces of news for you: 1. The motives behind wars are often stupider than politics in general. Surely you acknowledge that politics in general demonstrate below average rationality. Wars are even more stupid.

2. Russian aircrafts have violated Finland's airspace three times just this week. The airspace violations have gone up from monthly to almost daily.


I believe Russia, as well as the US and China, have reasonable fail-safes against idiot politicians. The top leadership has considerable leeway, but will not be able to start a nuclear war or a major conventional war on a whim. Acts of stupidity isn't unheard of, but pure insanity is.

The Baltic States are hardest to defend of all NATO territory. The other border states have land, in the case of Scandinavia very hostile terrain, on which to defend and degrade an invader, while the Baltic States are more like Netherlands. I don't know how the doctrine changed when the Baltic States became members, but I guess the battle plan would be to invade Russia to cut off supply lines, putting Russia's second city in harm's way, and with a very real risk of nuclear conflagration. Not good for Russia, not good for anyone.

The forward capabilities of NATO in this area is slight (basically the strategy for all the Scandinavian countries is to dig in and wait for reinforcements/the offensive to peter out/nuclear war, whichever comes first), that or an unwillingness to go to all-out war for the Baltic States (which would surprise me greatly) would be the only hope for a military adventure. Russia isn't the Soviet Union, the Baltic States isn't that much of a prize, and anyway they are more useful as they are now. Harassment and Finlandisation, sure, that's feasible scenarios. Taking the Northern regions made sense if you also planned to roll in with columns of tanks through Germany, and we don't have scenarios like in those good old days any more.

Everything about the Baltic States apply to Scandinavia as well. The pure defence capabilities have been reduced for the capabilities to visit countries in foreign continents, and bomb them. Sign of the times, I guess. Even so, they have "not worth it" written all over them. The relationship between Norway and Russia hasn't been as good since the Russian Revolution (and the next NATO gen.sec. is Norwegian), and the border disputes are resolved. Even at these best of times, there was a border incursion once a week on average (what it is now I don't know).

The Baltic States are safe from any thinkable Russian regime.  They are like Slovenia in the Jugoslav wars.  If I were mistaken I'll buy you a beer. The rest of what used to be the Soviet Union is a different story, there is no former Soviet Republic in which Russia hasn't meddled.

  • jax
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Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Reply #19
Speaking of which, the US equipment stored in Norwegian caves is significantly upgraded.

American Heavy Tanks to be Stored in Mountains of Norway



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MOSCOW, August 5 (RIA Novosti) - US cargo ship USNS PFC Dewayne T. Williams is expected to arrive in the small Norwegian village of Namdalseid on August 10, bringing heavy tanks, armored personnel carriers and landing crafts, the local Adresseavisen newspaper reported on Tuesday.

The cargo will include third-generation main battle tanks of the M1A1 Abrams type. This new, heavier equipment will replace trucks and personnel carriers which were previously stored in the mountain bunkers of Central Norway.

Local defense sources, cited by the Norwegian Aftenposten newspaper, say that the US' decision to change war equipment stored in Norway was made on the basis of experiences from Iraq and Afghanistan.


As I see it, this is good for peace, as any US military equipment kept out of range from US police stations makes the world a more peaceful place.

  • ersi
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Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Reply #20

If I were mistaken I'll buy you a beer.

Yeah, totally compensates for the war. Thanks!

(I don't even drink.)

Btw, third piece of news is Russian submarines spotted from passenger ferries between Finland, Estonia, and Sweden http://www.delfi.ee/news/paevauudised/eesti/ainult-delfis-video-tallinki-laevareisija-jaadvustas-laevast-moodunud-allveelaeva.d?id=69635869

  • jax
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Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Reply #21


If I were mistaken I'll buy you a beer.

Yeah, totally compensates for the war. Thanks!

(I don't even drink.)


You might start if there were one.

Btw, third piece of news is Russian submarines spotted from passenger ferries between Finland, Estonia, and Sweden http://www.delfi.ee/news/paevauudised/eesti/ainult-delfis-video-tallinki-laevareisija-jaadvustas-laevast-moodunud-allveelaeva.d?id=69635869


Submarines that could be spotted from those Baltic Sea spy ferries wouldn't be much of a danger, now they hopefully wouldn't pose a danger to nearby rocks anymore.

  • ersi
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Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Reply #22
Perhaps they are civilian submarines :left:

  • rjhowie
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Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Reply #23
That one about Russian planes leaning on Finland. How about the US navy leaning on mainland China? Considering you are in hock to that country seems a bit stupid.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • Macallan
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Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Reply #24

I think that in Swedish a suckstraw (as in a real straw made out of some kind of grass-like plant) and a suckpipe could both be the exact same word? That is, a difference with the English word straw might be purely imaginary and a consequence of switching to paper and plastic, except that in English it's a drinking straw rather than a sucking straw.

In german the word for pipe - 'Rohr' - used to mean reed, and in some contexts still does. Then, in northern german there's Reet, which means reed. Halm means the hollow stalk of a plant. So, Strohhalm ( more common than Trinkhalm where/when I grew up ) means literally straw stalk. English usage sounds like a typical abbreviation of something like that.