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Poll

Which

  • 21st century architecture is better than earlier architecture
    2 (66.7%)
  • 21st century architecture is worse than earlier architecture
    1 (33.3%)
  • beer is better than either
    0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 3

Topic: 21st century architecture (Read 20455 times)

  • jax
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21st century architecture
Buildings say a lot about the builders and the people who elect to use them. What buildings of this century would you like to highlight and why? Which are the best? Which are the worst? Which are interesting, which are boring? Which ones probably wouldn't be made before or after? How will they affect the neighbourhood, how would they age?

What can we say about current architecture? What should we be quiet about? What are the hopes and fears?

  • jax
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Re: 21st century architecture
Reply #200
It's always fun to come to an interpretation based on your knowledge of other languages.

Quote from: Google Translate (wow, pretty good)
The architect has previously built another Secret Sauna, which is widely used in a secret location in the Stockholm archipelago.

Quote from: Original
Arkitekten har tidigare byggt en annan så kallad "Secret Sauna", som finns och används flitigt på en hemlig plats i Stockholms skärgård.

De architect heeft eerder[1]

Here there is a discrepancy between my Norwegian and Swedish. Swedish tidig(are) is Norwegian tidlig(ere), early (earlier). To my ears tidig (without the "L") would be something timely or in time, not something early. The word utidig (un-timely) means inappropriate in modern Norwegian. Looking it up, tidig supposedly also has meanings like fresh, quick, nice, something presumably dialectal I never heard of before now. 



gebouwd[2] 
cognate, originally, with buildByggnad is building. Swedish bo, to dwell, is also related

 een andere so-called[3]
kalla of course means to name something/someone. Not in Dutch?


"Secret Sauna," som finns[4]
Yes, the original root is (something) found, has a straight correspondence with the English word exist

aanwenden[5] vlijtigt[6]Marked of German and Low German origin respectively. Flitig has the primary sense of diligent(ly), but here used a lot, all the time.

 een heimelijke plaats[7]From Norse heimiligr, originally "home-ly", domestic, then private, then secret. 

 in Stockholms schiergaarde[8]
-gård is cognate to a lot of stuff, like yard, or like Russian -gorod (city), or castle, or farm, or building. Skär too has a wide range and PIE roots, here it seems to have come from sker, a Norse word for small island or holm, loose English cognates skerry and even shore, and possibly related PIE *sker (cut), from which another skär, meaning cliff, also has arisen as well as the Swedish word for cutting. Finally another branch is related to shimmer or shine. Uniquely among Scandinavian languages Swedish skär also means pink, but that is a fairly modern meaning, a couple hundred years, coming from French coleur de chair. In other words this word for pink actually means "meat coloured", making it a whole lot less romantic.
tijdig=on time, tijdiger=more on time, but in this case earlier or previously
looks more like a cognate with Dutch buigen (bend) or gebogen (bent), or maybe a cognate with English buy
yeah, not Dutch, but that's kind of my point here :P Dutch, English, and German all help to make sense of it.
clearly finns must be related to English find and Dutch vinden
aanwenden=use
vlijtig = industrious, in this case probably more like industrious→busy→being used but that's not Dutch
a secret place
a near yard/orchard... not actually a word in Dutch, mind you. I guess the group of islands sense of archipelago means something like "an almost (regular, not divided by sea) domain". Note that a schiereiland (a near island) is a peninsula. Interestingly, there are actually some early 18th century German attestations of the word Schiergaard, e.g., here.

Quote
Bei Bergen konnte inmitten der Schiergaard-Inseln eine sehr günstige Stelle zum Fange von Travisia gefunden werden

"At Bergen you could find a very favorable spot to catch Travisia(???) in the middle of the Schiergaard islands." Is it actually a placename in Norway or just a German misinterpretation?

  • Frenzie
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Re: 21st century architecture
Reply #201
kalla of course means to name something/someone. Not in Dutch?
Kallen used to exist as a verb back in Middle Dutch, but nowadays in the standard language only the pejorative noun kal remains (silly babbling), as well as the derived verb raaskallen (delirious driveling). According to the 1917 entry in the WNT the verb kallen still exists regionally in the positive/neutral sense (of speaking/talking), which is still true in modern-day Flanders in 2017. The Middle Dutch dictionary doesn't list any sense of "naming", only speaking, notifying, telling, uttering and babbling.

Note that I'm using Flanders in the more historical/linguistic meaning, referring to the County of Flanders (or the present-day provinces of West and East Flanders). Here in Antwerp the Antwerpish/Brabantic equivalent is klappen. Maybe it has something to do with the clapping motion of a jaw while talking. Standard Dutch has spreken (cf. German sprechen) and praten. Funnily enough, the English verb prate/prattle has taken on the same pejorative meaning of excessive babbling as kallen has in Dutch.
  • Last Edit: 2017-05-19, 13:55:31 by Frenzie

  • jax
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Re: 21st century architecture
Reply #202
You got känna, to know? It has dropped out English, except Scottish ken. 

  • Frenzie
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Re: 21st century architecture
Reply #203
Yes, kennen is regular Dutch (and German). We have the distinction between kennen and weten (German wissen), absent from English. Same as French connaitre and savoir.

  • ersi
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Re: 21st century architecture
Reply #204
Sent.
Queued up on the e-reader. Thanks :up:

Edit: What are you guys talking about? Have you considered the word snacka? And it doesn't mean to have a snack, even though "ha litet snack" is definitely a thing.
  • Last Edit: 2017-05-19, 16:03:04 by ersi

  • jax
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Re: 21st century architecture
Reply #205
Words for speaking or talking seem well shared among the Germanic languages, but vary widely in their connotations.

English tale or talk, Dutch taal, Swedish tal(a), Norwegian tale seem connected with telling a story or holding a speech

Spreken, sprechen, speak, seems connected with speaking, we don't have much in Scandinavian, but we have the noun språk/sprog (language).  

English say, German sagen, Dutch zaggen, Swedish säga, Danish sige, Norwegian si seems to mean utter.

Dutch praten, English prate, Swedish prata, Dan/Norw prate seems to informal talk and Low German origin

Swedish snacka, Norwegian snakke, have a conversation, seems to come from Dutch (snappy) remark, and so does English snack.



  • Frenzie
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Re: 21st century architecture
Reply #206
English say, German sagen, Dutch zaggen, Swedish säga, Danish sige, Norwegian si seems to mean utter.
That's zeggen in Dutch. :P

Swedish snacka, Norwegian snakke, have a conversation, seems to come from Dutch (snappy) remark, and so does English snack.
Huh, I don't recall having come across that while reading Middle Dutch texts. Here's the entry in the Middle Dutch dictionary. In Modern Dutch snakken means something like to crave or to desire intently, e.g., Romeo snakt naar Julia. I suppose you could also translate that as "Romeo has an appetite for Juliette" if you wish to stick closer to the English meaning of snack. The Middle Dutch dictionary says that snakken and snappen are practically the same word in etymology and meaning.

According to the book Verholen verwanten (hidden relatives, i.e., cognates that aren't obvious) that I acquired recently, etymologically snatch is the same verb as snakken. The Random House Dictionary supports this: "1175-1225; Middle English snacche (noun), snacchen (v.) < ?; cognate with Middle Dutch snacken."

Many of the hidden relatives aren't particularly hidden if you have some basic linguistic knowledge of English/Germanic sound changes as well as Middle Dutch and Middle English, but the fact that given the time I could also have compiled the book shouldn't be taken as disparagement. It's a fun little reference work that primarily combines the knowledge of the Van Dale etymological dictionary and the OED, but many others as well.

  • jax
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Re: 21st century architecture
Reply #207
Kind of in that vein, the 21st century architecture of Google Translate. It translates 
Quote
Die volkswirtschaftslehre (auch Nationalökonomie, Wirtschaftliche Staatswissenschaften, oder Sozialökonomie, kurz VWL) ist ein Teilgebiet der Wirtschaftswissenschaft
into 
Quote
The economics of economics (including economics, economics, economics, economics) is a part of economics

  • Frenzie
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Re: 21st century architecture
Reply #208
 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

To be fair, that is essentially what it says even if it is stylistically awkward. Volkswirtschaftslehre means something like "common economics" or "common science [or teachings] of economics"[1] and the rest is nothing but synonyms (national economics, political economics, social economics) that all mean economics affecting society in the broader sense. For most intents and purposes you'd just call that economics. In many contexts that would either be a very good or quite simply the best translation.

However, you confused Google Translate by typoing Volkswirtschaftslehre. In German nouns are capitalized. Fixing it up seems to improve the translation ever so slightly.

Quote
Die Volkswirtschaftslehre (auch Nationalökonomie, Wirtschaftliche Staatswissenschaften, oder Sozialökonomie, kurz VWL) ist ein Teilgebiet der Wirtschaftswissenschaft.

Quote
The economics of economics (including economics, economics, economics, social economics, economics) is a sub-area of economics.
Not economics of economics, obviously.