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Messages - jim0214

This forum has turned into a funeral, but the funeral luckily has some attendants. Make merry as long as it lasts.

I started this conversation for one reason, to get people talking. Guess what? It worked! I like this forum and don't it to waste away. As far as ranting goes, Micro$oft is a love hate thing with me, mostly hate. It started back in the early 2000's, when Micro$oft went into European courts and lied that Internet Explore couldn't be removed from Windows, because it part of Windows. The next day a tech came into court, showing Explore removed and Windows still worked. Ranting and trolling isn't my thing. If you read my other posts they're filled with tongue in cheek humor. It's a lot easier to be funny and not take yourself to serious. Like I've said many times, "In a hundred years, it just won't matter." Now if you really want me to go off the rails ranting,,, ask me about Trump!!! :oRepeating what was written at the beginning, I was hoping to engage people on the forum to talk with each other while waiting for the next Otter update. 
What are particular problems with 10?
I don't like a number of things. (1.) The fact, your force feed updates from Micro$oft. If you don't take all the updates, they turn you off for any future updates. With Win 7 you can hide them, never to be seen again. If a bad update breaks your computer, oh well we're really sorry about that,,, we're working on a patch to fix that update. I've read some horror stories about after updating Win 10, many have gotten the blue screen of death and spent hours trying to back up again. IMO: the best resource for finding out about all Windows nonsense is He has a forum also. It's all clear and very understandable information, from people much smarter than me. Giving you a heads up on when not to update and when to do it. No one is making a pile of money from website, kind of like this site! I don't see anyone getting rich off of Otter. (2.) Those dam tiles on Win 10, I don't like them. Yes I know I can get rid of them, but why should I have to in the frist place? Since it's no longer free for 10, I have to pay for it and still get advertising? NO No No! I forget, did I say No? :happy: (3.) The last thing, other wise  I'll spend all day bitching. Micro$oft spying on everything I do in Windows and on the web. If they want to look at the porn on my hard drive? Okay,,, just ask frist. As a matter of fact, some of it is pretty good. (3.5.) Make me pay around 200 dollars for Win 10, force me take updates, be them bad or not, show me advertising and then spying by looking over my shoulder to see what I'm doing? I don't think so boys and girls. I'm done ranting. Oh,,, before I forget. Have a nice day! :cheers:
Of the remaining Windows 7 users, (and there a lot them) how many are going to continue using Win 7 after January 1st 2020? Amazingly about 35% of Windows devices are still Win 7. I plan on staying with Win 7 Pro and rely on 3rd. party software to keep me safe from the bad guys. When I do give up on Windows, I'm switching to Linux Mint. Win 10 will never be on anything I own. Just wondering! :sherlock:
the only thing wrong with it, is a java script engine that Opera had.

JavaScript was always Opera's problem! Back in the stone age, Opera had to use Netscape's JavaScript among other borrowed goodies. Remember having to copy & paste Netscape.exe into Opera's menu to make things work. On top of all that, it wasn't free, you had to pay for it! At least until the box ads showed up. They were in the top right hand corner of the browser. Only then it became free. I'm talking about Opera 3. something are another. Easily 20 years ago. I just realized 2 things while writing this. I know way to much about this browser and I'm OLD! 
Wasn't that just Presto? As in, you can't just make some fairly minor tweaks and have your own Opera that plays AV1 or something, but you'd have a loose rendering engine that'd only be useful after a ton of work to either build a GUI or integrate it into one.

I started this as a joke, but since we're talking about it... I'm guessing after months and months of going through the code, you maybe able to put some lipstick on the pig to get Presto working. What I mean by working is, for todays standards, but what about 2 or 4 are more years from now? Unless you know a couple of kids sitting in their dark bedroom, trying to hack in to US Pentagon that would be willing to dick with the thing,,, The cost factor would be through the roof! It's all a dream and if I'm going to dream. I'd perfer to dream about sleeping with Jennifer Aniston! As a matter of fact, I'm doing that now. :flirt:
Actually it was on GitHub (illegally of course) about a year or two ago and the repository was forked a few times before everything was taken down.
That's what I was referring to. The code was on GitHub for over a year before anyone notice.
I tried 1.0.01 only on 2  websites. Yahoo and YouTube neither one loaded video's. YouTube said my browser didn't recognise any of the formats. Loading pages on Yahoo was so slow, I had to shave twice before it finished loading. Turned ad blocking off, thinking that may help. My thinking was wrong. Had nothing else open but 1 window of Otter and the normal background stuff. The interesting thing is RC 12 did work on both websites. I'm using Windows 7 Pro 64 bit and know Otter 1.0 is 32, but I've used 32 bit browsers before with no problem. Grasping at straws here to figure it out.:sherlock: The good thing about this is, Otter didn't crash. Enjoy your day boys & girls! 8)
I have a idea. Lets go knock on Opera's door (in China) and tell them since your not using it hand over Presto! Hell the Chinese have stolen enough codes from everyone. Are just maybe, GitHub has a old copy of the source code laying around.:lol:  :devil:
I'll do that. Thanks!
Wondering if there was a update on the time line either for version 1.0 or RC 13? We haven't any updates since September. Still using Opera 12.18, but it's showing it age. Some sites just don't work without spoofing or writing javascript. That gets to be a pain. Those times, I use (chrome clone) Viavldi. Even then, I feel like I'm cheating on a girlfriend. Otter 1.0 would be a nice Christmas gift!  :happy:  :wait:
Your right, This is not ready! I tried to fill in a form to the BBB in San Diego Ca. Otter failed badly. Couldn't copy, cut and paste or select all from the page. Even went and tried to save the whole page as a text file. No luck. I have Otter setup to open new windows not tabs. I freakin hate tabs!!! Click new window icon to open a window, I get a tab. Tried closing the tab and the BBB page was lost and all the input I had on there. If it's not able to do a simple cut and paste, yes it's still a garage project and I was wrong. I used Opera 12.18 to write this and you the sad part about that? I have a kid in the second grade of school and all the versions of OLD Opera 12 are younger than her.
Everyone has made very good valid points. Brainstorming is 60% of how I make a living. It was asked, what is there in Otter to especially promote right now? I look at it in a different way. I try to promote interest in something that some times, isn't very interesting. Watch a info commercial, then you'll get the idea of what I'm talking about. Try to come up with campaign for replacement windows for your house. Software is no diffrerent, look at the idiot scamming people with the Fix Me Stick. I'm not suggesting doing the same thing. I like being able to sleep at night. What I am suggesting, is getting people interested and involved. Would it be slow and hard in the beginning, with days asking, why am I doing this? You betcha.

Puting all that aside for moment. In the short time I've been on this forum there is one huge plus I've notice in our talks. There is a lot of brain power among us and each of us have a part that can help make a whole. Don't get to warm and fuzzy because, my question is, where do you want or see Otter going and do we try to work together on this? It would definitely be a trial, since neither of us know each other. Think about it. I'm willing to try! :o :D
Probably simplest it is to show such coders the list of issues and to communicate with the head developer as to what the current priorities are.

I'm thinking off the top of my head as I write this, so bear with me. First thing, let me apologize ahead of time, if I've hurt someone's feeling's to what I'm about to write. That is not my intent.
There are some main issues that need to be address before going forward.
1. Organization sucks! I've seen sock drawers better organized. There are things that are now being under utilized. One being social-media exp.(FaceBook, Twitter). My guess is, it's a time thing. It would be understandable given that there so many hours in a day. Using media better could rally the troops sort of speak. They don't need to tech heads, just people getting the word out. This builds interest and curiosity. There needs to be a reason (Theme) for Otter and there already is one. Taking Back What Was Lost or Stolen! Opera caved in for easy money. We're saving the day by making it better than Opera and it's all for you, the user. Firefox did it and so can we. I can't think of a better way to enlisted support. Who doesn't like fighting for the underdog? By putting an edge to it, would draw younger people. Instead of trying to brake into the Pentagon, a couple of 15 yr. olds sitting in their bedrooms may want to help on coding. There is no better warm and fussy feeling than, We Did This. Vivaldi is using it effectually, so can we. Side note; if Vivaldi is Opera 12 then a Etch a Sketch is art. When I was writing reviews, I notice the press wasn't be used very well. Press releases should be done at least weekly, if not daily. After doing a search, Cnet doesn't even know of Otter's existence.
2. Commitment to the project, because one man band is doomed. If someone would like to volunteer to the project, asking them for two hours a week would not be much to ask. That's a little over 15 min's. a day. I myself am willing to give a couple of hours a day to this endeavor. Maybe a little more on weekends. Whomever is trying to put a face to this name, needs to be in constant contact with head developer and/or coders. Updates are very important for the volunteers and press releases. This would be a good starting point, with a ton of crap waiting behind it. The most important fact is, this is a product and a product needs an audience!!!
Lastly, if someone wants my real email, ask I'll give to you.
A good way for those who'd like to support Otter but don't know how is to have Otter's default user agent string on display, at least. And you just did it :up:

The project lacks manpower, that's coders. This is probably the most acute problem. This is where I cannot help.

I tried to help for a while with writing help pages and/or documentation, but I soon discovered that documentation is really something the developer must do himself. If another person tries to document what the developer is doing, the other person should be living in the developer's head and that's tough to do.

If/when someone else is writing help pages, it must be done based on documentation and, in an ongoing project, one must take the roadmap into account. So there should be a roadmap also. It would suffice if the project were done in reasonably human-readable coding languages (thus self-explanatory and even self-documenting), but since this is not the case, I cannot write even help pages adequately. I can only write what I dream Otter to be and this may easily wander off.

Is this the appropriate moment now for me to lay down what I dream Otter to be? Maybe another day.

I completely agree with you. I was offer writing documention. I came up with the idea of using Opera's documention as template/guide. Thinking a little more about it, it would have the same effect as something that happens in the States now. After purchasing something made in China and trying to read the assembling instructions. Yes, it's written in english, but not by someone who speaks the english language. My writing would be the same, nonsensical and as clear as mud! Giving parts of documention to write could be delegated to volunteers, but they'd still have a need to be in contact with the coders or at least someone acting as the go between. Seems to me, a better approach, is to spread out trying to find coders willing to help. Even if they wrote only a partial of code, it's better than no code. Allowing them to not feel so overwhelmed and time consuming. After the task is completed, then write docs
RC-6 has been doing just fine. It's been very stable for me. I've been posting comments and reviews on websites about our little browser.  I thought it would be fair of me to show what I have written.

{{{ I've been using Otter Browser for about a year and half now. Being a Opera user for about 18 years. I'm still hanging on to the last Presto engine with Opera 12.18. Just wish they hadn't gone and gotten all stupid, deciding to be Chrome's little brother. Call it what you want,,, it's Google! Most people don't know it, but the features that browser's have today, came from Opera. Multiple tabs, private browsing, saved sessions, popup/content blocker, mouse gestures and a great built-in e-mail client. There is more, just to many to list. Otter is the best browser holding on to the features and traditions that made Opera 12.18 great. Otter lets you customize it's look and feel any way you want. It's light and fast and has become very stable. In the past it was pretty buggie, but no longer is that the case. Most of the work on it has been under the hood. For that reason, Otter isn't the best looking girl at the dance. Going so far as to say, it has a face made more for radio. It's a work in progress that's coming along very nicely. After a coat of paint and hanging some curtains Otter will be everything Opera lost.}}}

Okay,  I'm a sales and marketing guy. I don't know jack about code, unless your talking about the code the wife and I use when we don't want the kids to know what we're talking about. I have written a little user JavaScript to get pages to work the way I want and knocked around finding that radio button someone did or didn't click to get the software working again. Along with knowing how to flash my Oneplus phone. It's better than most, but not great!
What I do know, is how to talk my ass off and get people to listen and I want this project to take wings and fly. If I can help in some way, let me know!
@jim0214, it will require some more testing.
Was that a big session (how many tabs)?
It would be a good idea to determine which page is responsible for that, since most likely it's some sort of JS issue, then we could determine if it is some known issue of WebKit, perhaps there is some fix available.

Emdek sorry I've away for a while. Since that one instance, it's not happen again. After thinking about it, I think were right about JS issue. I had three windows open, not tabs, don't use them. Two of the pages were heavy use on JS. Like Walmart  and Bing image finder. The other one I can't remember, maybe Yahoo homepage. It hasn't happen again, so lets chalk it up to JS.
Emdek Sorry about that. It was for windows 7 or better win64-0.9.93-weekly204-setup. Hope that helps!
Emdak It was RC 4 from 1-1-18. Deleted RC 3 including in registry before doing install of RC 4. Wanted to get a good clean install as I could.
Couldn't keep RC 3 release from crashing as soon as it was opened on Windows 7 Pro 64. Downloaded RC 4 release (01-01-2018) last night. Kick the tires around and went for a spin thinking this is sweet. Today, nothing big running in the background, Avast, Spybot, Start Menu X and Desktop Earth. Things slow to a crawl, looking at resource monitor, RC 4 sucked every bit of my resources up in about 15 min's of usage. RAM of 8 gig's leaving me 156 meg's. Opera 12.18 is bad for that, but not that bad. BTW: had 3 windows open in Otter. I hate freakin tabs.
I've been a Opera user since 3.1. Remember the free ad base Opera? Hanging on to Opera 12.18 like wing man, thinking we would both go down fighting together. Then I found Otter and life was worth living again. It's been a couple of weeks of kicking tires on Otter and have to say, thank you. Even managed to set it's toolbars to look like my Opera. Not with pretty colors but, also knowing that it's still in infant stage, doesn't take away what it already as become and can be. Please don't give up on this great browser. I held out hope on Vivaldi. It's a nice browser, but seems to be turning into another Chrome clone. Whatever it is, it's not Opera 12.18.
I don't know a thing about how to write code but, if I can help in someway, I'd more than happy to help. Nothing would make me happier, than to show the big dogs what a browser should be. Thanks again!