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General => Browsers & Technology => Topic started by: string on 2013-11-23, 14:46:34

Title: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: string on 2013-11-23, 14:46:34
Many are giving up Opera due to the shortcomings of the present state of the so-called "Opera Next"

This thread is to inform us on how the Opera Browser develops.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: string on 2013-11-23, 14:54:04
I have been concerned about loosing the mail which was stored within the Opera Browser.

As an interim solution I downloaded and installed "Opera Mail" which was able to import both mail and contacts from Opera, leaving them intact in the browser.

I write "interim" because I am no longer confident that an Opera Product is good for the long term, but have hopes that a generous warning would be given as has been the case with the Opera Browser.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Macallan on 2013-11-23, 16:46:27
I gave up on Opera when they dropped support for anything non-x86, without even bothering to whip up something halfway stable as a final release. Especially MacOS X / powerpc support was apparently dropped in the middle of an unannounced beta phase.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ohme on 2013-11-23, 18:45:06
I think it's just a matter of time they will (also) close the mail-client. I think it's safe to say that people only using that half-baked mail-client because of it's integration with the browser!
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2013-11-23, 18:46:46
I've been trying to keep up with the discussion on the alert, but the fan-boy response is getting a little old. Some people are willing to put up with anything, for me there are limits and to tell the truth I've had about enough of the nonsense.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2013-11-23, 19:25:11

I gave up on Opera when they dropped support for anything non-x86, without even bothering to whip up something halfway stable as a final release. Especially MacOS X / powerpc support was apparently dropped in the middle of an unannounced beta phase.

They also won't be returning to *BSD.


I think it's just a matter of time they will (also) close the mail-client. I think it's safe to say that people only using that half-baked mail-client because of it's integration with the browser!

I think it had some really neat features for its time, see e.g. Mark Schenk's review (http://www.markschenk.com/various/originalm2/m2tutorial.html). Unfortunately development was going along at a snail's pace from Opera 7 all the way through 11.50. There were some minor changes like newsfeeds, but even so it took about 8 years for newsfeed folders to arrive.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2013-11-23, 19:36:17
For what it's worth (diddly doo, I know) I just successfully switched to the new computer. Signing in here was not as much of a problem this time as the first time, so-- it works.

About the Opera browser--- I'm not sure what to make of that anymore except that I'm not inclined to fuss with it. They change things at will it seems, no discernible plan at all.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Macallan on 2013-11-24, 01:20:03

I think it's just a matter of time they will (also) close the mail-client. I think it's safe to say that people only using that half-baked mail-client because of it's integration with the browser!

I used it way back in the 4.x and 5.x days, mostly to keep private mail separate from work. Got the job done but then again IIRC it didn't support any kind of cryptography and at that time it was windows only. So I got used to something else and never looked back.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Macallan on 2013-11-24, 01:26:41


I gave up on Opera when they dropped support for anything non-x86, without even bothering to whip up something halfway stable as a final release. Especially MacOS X / powerpc support was apparently dropped in the middle of an unannounced beta phase.

They also won't be returning to *BSD.

They never supported NetBSD ( and I wouldn't ask them to - it's the definition of an obscure minority system ), the Linux version still works on amd64, except it became so bloated that my poor little laptop swaps itself to death after a while, despite 4GB of RAM.
Opera just fills everything up and I don't give enough of a crap anymore to dig around and see if I can fix it. Firefox works lately ( after years and years of crap ), even on sparc64 hardware ( one of our guys had enough and fixed it ), let's see if/when the TenFourFox people get their stuff into the main tree.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2013-11-24, 01:53:06
I finally gave up on the newsfeed on the "discover" version of the note that started all of this. Those guys got an attitude, don't need theirs I have one of my own.

Right now, new computer running Windows 8: I have Internet Exploder because this came with that, used it to download Firefox. Firefox is the default browser now.

Present complaint: I have a number of photos, and when I try to view them this system has a fit trying to show me way too many possibilities, most of which I will not use. I'm going to have to see what can be done to make photo-viewing halfway usable.

This forum has some weird toys. Gonna have to play with this a bit.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ohme on 2013-11-24, 06:20:35


I think it's just a matter of time they will (also) close the mail-client. I think it's safe to say that people only using that half-baked mail-client because of it's integration with the browser!

I think it had some really neat features for its time, see e.g. Mark Schenk's review (http://www.markschenk.com/various/originalm2/m2tutorial.html). Unfortunately development was going along at a snail's pace from Opera 7 all the way through 11.50. There were some minor changes like newsfeeds, but even so it took about 8 years for newsfeed folders to arrive.


I know it has "labels" and such before anyone else thought about it! It's is just me or there are anyone else that think that O mail(client) team are always neglected! This is more apparent now I would say. Anyway like 'Macallan' I switched my e-mail client long ago and never bothered with M2 again. I know some people here really like M2, well good luck to them and don't be too surprised if M2 just vanish someday!
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: j7n on 2013-11-24, 06:24:41
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Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ohme on 2013-11-24, 06:37:09

I've never bothered with other e-mail software because I felt Opera was miles ahead in security of Outlook Express and any web interfaces that most people use.

Aha outlook express was my 1st. email client, at those days I hardly bother about sec. :p
I don't use Win anymore j7n. (with exception of some limited case)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2013-11-24, 08:28:02
Quote from: ohme
like 'Macallan' I switched my e-mail client long ago and never bothered with M2 again. I know some people here really like M2, well good luck to them and don't be too surprised if M2 just vanish someday!
I used Claris Emailer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claris_Emailer), until it wouldn't work... (Different providers needing different patches... :) ) Then, briefly, Eudora. When I switched to Opera 9 (from 6.03...) I got used to M2. (Indeed, I made the switch -on advice from a friend- specifically for M2.)
The !new Opera Mail client is okay. Until my email providers fail to work with it, I'll stick with it. But it's not as convenient as the bundled browser/mail-client was...

The new browsers are a different story! I still have 11.64 and 12 on my system... I'll use the others, to see where they're going, how they do. But I'll keep the old versions of Opera that let me use them the way I want to!
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2013-11-24, 13:58:46
Anyway like 'Macallan' I switched my e-mail client long ago and never bothered with M2 again. I know some people here really like M2, well good luck to them and don't be too surprised if M2 just vanish someday!
I only use M2 for newsfeeds these days; I don't think I've used it for mail since '08-ish. Like I said, there was virtually no visible development there since Opera 7, while Thunderbird kept improving in the meantime. I currently use Icedove (=Thunderbird).
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ohme on 2013-11-24, 14:40:23
Ah! so you are using Debian :D
Presently using Evolution! :p

@OakdaleFTL
That seems Mac software, never have any Macs!
I see no problem at sticking at older software, I also do that with many software... media players for example! ;)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2013-11-24, 14:49:56
I actually used Evolution for a while, but it was occasionally a bit slow and more important not always stable. Another potential issue is settings are a bit all or nothing. In Thunderbird you can have different settings per e-mail account, somewhat akin to Opera's site preferences.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ohme on 2013-11-24, 15:14:13
um! not sure about what you meant by different settings per account, can you elaborate please?
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2013-11-24, 19:01:31
How to handle archiving, including signature, whether to use HTML e-mails, whether to top or bottom post... as far as I recall Evolution can do those kind of settings application-wide only. I'm not trying to convert anyone to Thunderbird or anything; as far as I know Tb, Evolution, Claws, and probably several others are fine e-mail clients. :)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2013-11-24, 20:55:13
Here's a thread that followed Opera development news http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=1767272 but unfortunately it seems to have ended on my hopeful note that it would not end :)
Is there some continuation of this thread on the other side, on the new forums behind Disqus? Is there a new forums yet? Does anyone know of a similar active thread? Is anyone following the dev blogs, changelogs and user comments on the other side?

As to reasons for using Opera, I used it precisely for the email client first and foremost. I valued the interface of Pegasus, but it mangled with encodings. I also liked Eudora and I have tried a long list of other email clients, but eventually Opera 6 won me over with the inbuilt browser and a growing number of other features, while remaining lightweight on system resources.

Now when migrating away, the email client has been the most difficult component to replace. In the end I believe I used everything in Opera. I used it as it was - an internet suite. A tough loss. Migration from it is very difficult.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: string on 2013-11-25, 06:26:50
I suppose it depends on how complex the emails are that one wants to write. But not having tried anything else for a long time I would not know. My main interest in an email client is keeping things to hand rather than cloud based (some exceptions to that, for example if I fly somewhere, the flight confirmation emails are kept in a folder in Fastmail which I use and are thus available from any computer). Generally my storage of emails is of the file and forget variety but i do like to have a good search facility in case I want to refer to something.

On the subject of Opera itself, or rather Chopera, I've heard criticisms of it although nothing too specific except the Bookmark business (which is a killer for me) but I'd like to have a look. I presume one can just download and install it and get a new installation but the old Opera installation will remain untouched - any cautionary advice on that?

I want to see what it is like.

I originally bought opera in version 2 something and was happy to buy subsequent versions when I needed to to keep my web use compatible with the Psion I was using at the time. Since I use mini Opera on my android stuff the same logic could apply.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2013-11-25, 07:06:12
On the subject of Opera itself, or rather Chopera, I've heard criticisms of it although nothing too specific except the Bookmark business (which is a killer for me) but I'd like to have a look.

The criticism is of two kinds. One kind is missing features: http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=1768972

The other kind of criticism is Chrome-ness. All the criticism that applies to Chrome also applies to Chropera.

Both kinds of criticism have been very specific on the My Opera forums, but of course, go ahead and install it so you can see for yourself. However, if Chrome or Chromium is not for you, then chances are neither is Chropera.
Title: !
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2013-11-25, 07:51:07
My last OPERA experience was v10.63.....I decided to switch to FireFox because I didn't like using menus...I wanted to use buttons...Custom Buttons is a breeze with FireFox (for what I want anyway), & I found customization much more user friendly in FireFox. Extensions were a dime a dozen,,,,Greasemonkey for userscripts gave me even more flexibility, & between the two I was able to find just about everything I could possibly ever want.

Opera then became one of my #1 goto browsers for specific sites, & saving websites easier.

I use FireFox Portable ESR v17.0.9 at present....but because it's portable, I don't have to search folders for anything....all my needs & files can be located independently in one folder.

Backups are as simple as copying a folder & it's contents.

Absolutely no Registry dependencies either.

If the browser should really get messed up, all I need to do is delete the folder, & copy the backup folder to replace it, or to wherever I want it located...I have over 7 versions of Firefox Portable from v3.6 all the way through v24.0 at my immediate disposal, & I can switch through all versions using any saved profile I wish.

I have basically one up to date profile that I can use with at least 15 different browsers simply by using a copy & paste, & they're always hot to go.

Then again, not often, but every once in a while I fall back on my OPERA browser due to a difficult rendering website.

I also have 3 versions of OPERA Portable available in a split second with just a simple toolbar custom button press. ;)

Unless OPERA makes some monumental changes & u-turns, I doubt if I will ever go back to using it as my go to browser.

FireFox is getting a tad bit fussy with some of my must have custom buttons, but the Custom Button programmers are usually quick to the fix! Never had a button that couldn't be fixed or replaced with a better one.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: j7n on 2013-11-25, 08:55:16
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Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2013-11-25, 10:08:41

My last OPERA experience was v10.63.....I decided to switch to FireFox because I didn't like using menus...I wanted to use buttons...Custom Buttons is a breeze with FireFox (for what I want anyway), & I found customization much more user friendly in FireFox. Extensions were a dime a dozen,,,,Greasemonkey for userscripts gave me even more flexibility, & between the two I was able to find just about everything I could possibly ever want.

Could you tell me more about that? I couldn't figure it out compared to Opera (http://operawiki.info/custombuttons). I'm not interested in messing with XUL, although I might do it as a last resort.

But I've got my Opera customized in just about each and every aspect. How I can attach the same macro to a menu, button, mouse gesture, stack a whole bunch together... I don't think any other browser has that.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Barulheira on 2013-11-25, 10:33:30
M2 is indeed one of the main reasons why I still use Opera. Further, I keep disabled most of the recent improvements in mail GUI. I'm still a loyal good old plain text mail composer. I connect using IMAP, and M2 does it well enough. Recently it became a little buggy - e. g. it sometimes mixes news feeds in the mail inbox - but nothing fatal.
This is one thing I'll really miss once I have to quit Opera 12 - and I really don't know where to go.
(I have tried Evolution, and found it somewhat unstable, too.)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2013-11-25, 11:04:02
The big flaw of plain text e-mail is that it automatically line-breaks at, what is it, 72 characters? Besides that it's great. I prefer it despite that problem. The huge pain that is Blackboard now seems to force HTML e-mail upon you if you send it from within its interface.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Barulheira on 2013-11-25, 11:16:45
I keep automatic line-breaks disabled in M2...
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2013-11-25, 11:19:34
I suppose I should rephrase that as "many e-mail clients have retarded defaults." :P
Title: Retarded defaults
Post by: Barulheira on 2013-11-25, 12:10:20
 :P
Title: This is not the thread's title
Post by: Barulheira on 2013-11-25, 12:16:04
I noticed that, if I change the subject line of my post, that subject is displayed at the forum's "last post" area suggesting that it is the thread's title, which it is not. Does it work as expected?
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ohme on 2013-11-25, 13:02:48

How to handle archiving, including signature, whether to use HTML e-mails, whether to top or bottom post... as far as I recall Evolution can do those kind of settings application-wide only.

Yes you are right, those settings are global in Evolution.


I'm not trying to convert anyone to Thunderbird or anything; as far as I know Tb, Evolution, Claws, and probably several others are fine e-mail clients. :)

*Ahem* but you didn't mention two crucial things that TB does better than Evo! :p
1) Assuming one has multiple accounts setup, TB makes it very easy to check for (new emails) for any particular account.
2) It's impossible to detach (delete) attachments from the mail messages in Evo. (This has been solved in the more recent ver. of Evo methinks)


I think as long as they use mbox format, conversion is a trivial thing!
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2013-11-25, 13:11:48
http://blogs.opera.com/desktop/2013/11/opera-18-landed/#comment-1132645881
Quote from: Daniel Aleksandersen
Do not expect [the Linux version] for another three months at the earliest.
Meaning, in February or March the Linux version of Chropera might land on us. Does it really take so long for the company to get out of desktop browser business that they even dare to promise a Linux version? Well, I guess the credit they earned under Tetzchner is not so easily wasted after all.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ohme on 2013-11-25, 13:21:44
Damn that disqus, I can't see the comments properly!
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Luxor on 2013-11-25, 14:44:59

On the subject of Opera itself, or rather Chopera, I've heard criticisms of it although nothing too specific except the Bookmark business (which is a killer for me) but I'd like to have a look. I presume one can just download and install it and get a new installation but the old Opera installation will remain untouched - any cautionary advice on that?

I want to see what it is like.




Run the installer, select Options and install for USB and select a directory to install it to. (as in screenshot)


(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F3rQowoZ.png&hash=71095441abdc9a460c6a09ab5b87969e" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/3rQowoZ.png)


That way it doesn't affect your current installation and after you've stopped laughing you can just delete it.  ;D

Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2013-11-25, 17:44:02

I noticed that, if I change the subject line of my post, that subject is displayed at the forum's "last post" area suggesting that it is the thread's title, which it is not. Does it work as expected?
It's what Simple Machines expects. It may not be what you or I expect... but I guess it'd be easy enough to change (http://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?mod=2045).
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: krake on 2013-11-25, 19:00:12

On the subject of Opera itself, or rather Chopera, I've heard criticisms of it although nothing too specific except the Bookmark business (which is a killer for me) but I'd like to have a look.

Bookmarks is just the tip of the iceberg that any subaverage user will notice  ;)
Unlike other things they will return someday.
I presume one can just download and install it and get a new installation but the old Opera installation will remain untouched - any cautionary advice on that?

Yes, your old Opera installation will remain untouched.
Title: Re: !
Post by: krake on 2013-11-25, 19:18:51

My last OPERA experience was v10.63.....I decided to switch to FireFox because I didn't like using menus...I wanted to use buttons...Custom Buttons is a breeze with FireFox (for what I want anyway), & I found customization much more user friendly in FireFox.


Let me know which Firefox you are talking about :)
For some buttons I'm using in Opera 12 I had to download two extensions for Firefox!
You need extensions for search engines and for mouse gestures, to name just two of the very basics :o
Also both inferior to what Opera 12 offers by default.

I use FireFox Portable ESR v17.0.9 at present....

Your Firefox ESR is a bit outdated. Latest version of the 17 line is 17.011 ;)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2013-11-26, 01:09:48

[...] I've got my Opera customized in just about each and every aspect. How I can attach the same macro to a menu, button, mouse gesture, stack a whole bunch together... I don't think any other browser has that.
Indeed, that's what's gone missing in the new Blink/Chromium versions of the Opera browser... (The folks who clamored for "extensions" finally got their wish! :( Now, if I want to make the current Opera behave as I'd prefer, I have to get deeper into actual programming than I want or am able to. :sigh: ) But that's what comes of being assimilated!


Web-surfing is being constrained to the model of commercial TV. (The "innovation" of cable channels won't help.) The browser is merely a content viewer...


I liked the ridiculously customizable Opera browser. It was corrective lenses that suited my eyes, as well as other enhancements that accommodated my other senses. (Sure, that's more than enough metaphor to explain what I mean? :) ) I'll keep it until I can't.


But, of course, I'll follow the new trends. If only to learn how to revert them: De-evolution!
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2013-11-26, 08:03:48
Opera's extensions weren't so bad. They were mostly UserJS in a different package. But Chrome and Firefox don't have these great functions (http://www.opera.com/docs/userjs/specs/).
Title: Re: !
Post by: ohme on 2013-11-26, 09:06:52

You need extensions for search engines and for mouse gestures, to name just two of the very basics :o

You are right about mouse gestures, but extensions needed for search engines!!??? Ever heard of Open search engines!
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2013-11-26, 09:12:40

Damn that disqus, I can't see the comments properly!
Same here. I extracted the link from someone else's post and verified the quote with a console browser which is the only one without any url-filtering and adblocking :D You can only see Disqus comments when you don't use url-filters and adblocks AT ALL.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2013-11-26, 09:19:35

....For some buttons I'm using in Opera 12 I had to download two extensions for Firefox!
You need extensions for search engines and for mouse gestures, to name just two of the very basics :o
Also both inferior to what Opera 12 offers by default.

I use FireFox Portable ESR v17.0.9 at present....

Your Firefox ESR is a bit outdated. Latest version of the 17 line is 17.011 ;)


I currently run over 40 extensions on my FireFox without any impact , but the only one I couldn't be bothered with is what you call 'Mouse Gestures'.

I have over 150 home brewed search engines, & just about any site that has a search feature I can grab with just a button press...deals done, walk in the park....all this from an unobtrusive, 15 second self installing extension that works perfectly day after day after day.

Now, back up is just another button press...15 seconds (most 30) & all engines are snug as a bug. Like I said earlier, backing up my entire browser with all those extensions, soup to nuts, is a matter of one copy & paste of one folder, & that takes all of 4 minutes on a bad day.

Thanks for the tip on the latest version 17.0.11. It was a minor update. I have updates turned off, but I check every couple of months or so....Now I'm using it, with the prior version on the side, ever ready, just in case it needs to be fired up at a split seconds notice.

Thanks again .... (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/cheerskj4.gif)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: j7n on 2013-11-26, 09:39:17
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Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2013-11-26, 10:22:24
The large blog hanged for several seconds on my PC on every load and press of the "load more" button, and is a pain to scroll. And scrolling I must because of the sparse layout of the posts.

You can read my comments on why Disqus is an unusable POS here:
http://blogs.opera.com/news/2013/10/welcome-to-the-new-home-of-the-opera-news-blog/#comment-1104659747
http://blogs.opera.com/desktop/2013/10/welcome-to-the-new-home-of-desktop-blog/#comment-1105611523

I'll have to rescue them from Disqus and mirror them e.g. here because... well, as I said, it's an unusable POS.

Btw, threaded comments is a standard Wordpress feature.

Quote

Does migration to Disqus also mean that the new forums are physically stored on their network?

The horror! The horror! (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_of_Darkness)
Title: Re: !
Post by: krake on 2013-11-26, 11:34:52

You are right about mouse gestures, but extensions needed for search engines!!??? Ever heard of Open search engines!

You may disclose to a Firefox novice a simple way to add costumized search engines :)

Adding search engines (http://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/search-bar-easily-choose-your-search-engine#w_adding-search-engines) to Firefox
Quote
To add a search engine, click Get more search engines.... The Mozilla Add-ons Search Tools page (https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/search-tools/) is displayed.


BTW, I made my own friggin costumized .xml for Google 100 search results.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: krake on 2013-11-26, 12:05:58

You can only see Disqus comments when you don't use url-filters and adblocks AT ALL.

Disqus? It's a lame tracking service IMO.
However it fits to Opera's new philosophy and their new product.
Title: Re: !
Post by: ohme on 2013-11-26, 12:21:59


You are right about mouse gestures, but extensions needed for search engines!!??? Ever heard of Open search engines!


You may disclose to a Firefox novice a simple way to add costumized search engines :)

They will most probably go to the link you cite above, and end up with some junk extension!

Firefox (and now Opera) users, loves extensions too much ;)

In fact that's why good in-built "things" now turning into crappy "extensions",  easy to maintain dev goals etc. ;) (If you are interested then see what they done with the 'click-to-play' thingie recently! :( )


BTW, I made my own friggin costumized .xml for Google 100 search results.


Good! then stop spreading nonsense!
Title: Re: !
Post by: krake on 2013-11-26, 13:03:43
Good! then stop spreading nonsense!

The nonsense I'm spreading is from support mozilla (http://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/search-bar-easily-choose-your-search-engine#w_adding-search-engines): Adding search engines.
BTW, you didn't answer my question. Is any easy way to add your custom search engines except making your own .xml or downloading a plugin?
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: j7n on 2013-11-26, 13:15:07
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Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2013-11-26, 13:44:14
There are easier ways to add search engines in Firefox. One is built-in: bookmarks. In Firefox they're a sort of blend of Opera's bookmarks and search engine keywords. The second is an extension like URL Alias (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/firefox/addon/url-alias-8703/), which my wife uses. Somewhat ironically imo she occasionally uses Opera to help with the process of URL retrieval for more complex query strings.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: j7n on 2013-11-26, 15:58:02
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Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Macallan on 2013-11-26, 16:32:22

I only use M2 for newsfeeds these days; I don't think I've used it for mail since '08-ish. Like I said, there was virtually no visible development there since Opera 7, while Thunderbird kept improving in the meantime. I currently use Icedove (=Thunderbird).

Speaking of which, does anyone remember the mail client that came with BeOS? It (ab)used the filesystem's database/content indexing features, extended attributes and the filemanager's support for all of that so it didn't actually have a mail overview, folders were actual directories, mails were files in them etc.
Dammit I miss BeOS. Guess I'll check if any of the successor projects got anywhere lately.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2013-11-26, 16:42:03
At least Firefox does not use a bloody database for search engines (which are by definition few) like Opium. At first I thought I had to edit the Jason file, until Krake mentioned that he had an XML (with line breaks).

I completely agree. Chromium might well be the epitome of a bad browser. I posted on this very subject last hour:

http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=14992812
Quote from: Frenzie
Quote from: rilef
The "bookmarks" plain text file, if it indeed serves as the QAB database, is the only Opera 18 database I've found that is plain text. That's why I think it's a temporary, quick fix.

Would you rather access your data through SQLite? I've had to do some of that in Firefox. It's a huge increase in complexity with not one single advantage as far as I can see. It just puts the user further away from their data. I can do it, but that's besides the point. If Opera had thrown up database-based obstacles back in 2001 chances are I wouldn't be able to today.

I'm probably wrong, but I prefer to think of it as a first step toward bringing Opera/Presto proper Unix-style plain-text configuration to the overall atrocity of Chromium.



Speaking of which, does anyone remember the mail client that came with BeOS? [...]
Dammit I miss BeOS. Guess I'll check if any of the successor projects got anywhere lately.

Sorry, never used it. I actually have or had a BeOS demo disk somewhere which had the interesting capacity of playing reasonable-quality Xvid (or was it DivX...) video on my Pentium 100 without stuttering.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: j7n on 2013-11-26, 17:06:12
ׂ
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Macallan on 2013-11-26, 18:08:07

Speaking of which, does anyone remember the mail client that came with BeOS? [...]
Dammit I miss BeOS. Guess I'll check if any of the successor projects got anywhere lately.

Sorry, never used it. I actually have or had a BeOS demo disk somewhere which had the interesting capacity of playing reasonable-quality Xvid (or was it DivX...) video on my Pentium 100 without stuttering.

Yeah, actual realtime media playback, processing etc. was one of the stated design goals.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2013-11-26, 18:47:38
Opera ASA is the high-uppest corporate gold sponsor of Linux Mint http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=2472

Now, allegedly Chropera for Linux will be released in March or so. (The official statement I quoted earlier, to take it literally, it would mean we can begin waiting for the Linux version at that time. I personally won't believe until I see it.)

Let's combine these things. I have these questions:

When/If the Linux version of Opera Blink arrives, will it be in the repositories ready to wipe out the Presto version or will it be possible to have it side-by-side with the Presto version?

Will it be sufficiently different from Chrome for anyone of us to use it? Why? (I noticed Frenzie hoping for a sensible Unix-like non-Chromish config&profile files system. I entertain no such hopes.)

Will it be in the repositories at all? I know Chrome is not in the repositories, even though it has packages to suit all the base distros. Then again, Chromium is available and Opera ASA is a gold sponsor of the Linux distro that has been #1 for a year or more on Distrowatch, so...

Place your bets, gentlemen.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2013-11-26, 19:05:36
Yeah, actual realtime media playback, processing etc. was one of the stated design goals.

Well, I guess they succeeded. I thought you needed something like a Pentium 200 or 233 at the very least for that kind of performance.

Opera ASA is the high-uppest corporate gold sponsor of Linux Mint http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=2472

I notice it says the gold sponsorship ends on 31 December 2013.

Will it be sufficiently different from Chrome for anyone of us to use it? Why? (I noticed Frenzie hoping for a sensible Unix-like non-Chromish config&profile files system. I entertain no such hopes.)

I'm not sure if I entertain such hopes exactly, but I had no idea the bookmarks were implemented in plain text. I really meant it when I said that was the best news about Chropera I've heard yet.[/quote]
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2013-11-26, 19:51:08

Adding a search engine to Firefox wasn't as difficult as I believed. Thanks for your encouragement.

It was still not as intuitive as in Opera. I wish there was a GUI and that the address of the search provider was shown. How is it secure if I let an external party (Mozilla) manage it?

Anyway, to add a search engine I went to
1) Firefox_Directory\browser\searchplugins
2) Created a new XML taking one as a template
3) Set the main URL, deleted the suggest URL and all params
4) Changed all "&" to "&"
5) Encoded an icon to Base 64 with Total Commander; removed all line feeds from it.
6) Deleted %appdata%\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles\code\search.json to regenerate it.

Result. (http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/88902520/screens/firefox-search-engines.png)

Quite a bit more steps than with Opera, which also didn't need to be restarted.


Or you can use Web Search Pro (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/web-search-pro/?src=ss)

A little intensive (because of the plethora of options & features) for the novice, but I think it will eventually make your search engine aquisitions & manipulations a bit more fun. (https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.smileys.me.uk%2Fsmileys%2FHappy%2Fhappy0159.gif&hash=a66898d9605c2d2542a17440b9a40ba3" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.smileys.me.uk/smileys/Happy/happy0159.gif)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2013-11-26, 19:54:41

Opera ASA is the high-uppest corporate gold sponsor of Linux Mint http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=2472

I notice it says the gold sponsorship ends on 31 December 2013.

Indeed:
Quote
As you know our Platinum sponsorship from Blue Systems came to an end and so will our Gold sponsorship with Opera at the end of this year. Losing our two main sponsors is tough...

My estimates tend towards extremely destitute fate for Opera on desktop. I think it will be out of desktop browser business in max three years, on all desktops, even on Mac and Windows.

Google has eaten the heart out of Opera ASA. If there's still some sense in this world, the rest of the corpse will follow rather sooner than later. Then again, Greece has been in absolute bankruptcy for years, financial, political, and moral, but the official announcement is still delayed. So, admittedly there is no sense in this world. But how to translate nonsense into estimates?

Quote from: Frenzie
I'm not sure if I entertain such hopes exactly, but I had no idea the bookmarks were implemented in plain text. I really meant it when I said that was the best news about Chropera I've heard yet.

Reports hitherto indicated that Chropera's profile was perfectly interchangeable with Chrome's (except for extensions; what a queer quirk...). Bookmarks file was a .db like in Chrome. Either they really changed the format, which would whip up your hopes, or it could be that also Chrome/Chromium can read a plain text file in some mode. Have you tried? I haven't :)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: krake on 2013-11-27, 09:47:56

or it could be that also Chrome/Chromium can read a plain text file in some mode. Have you tried? I haven't :)

I can't be bothered to download Chrome/Chropera for testing but I assume they can read a plain text file.
AFAIK Mozilla can as well.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2013-11-27, 18:27:43
I can't be bothered to download Chrome/Chropera for testing but I assume they can read a plain text file.
I assume then that you are utterly uninterested about Chropera's possible arrival to Linux.

Meanwhile I have gathered a humble list of atrocities that the company committed against its user base this year http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=14997702

- Pushing Mobile v.14 (Chromium) on top of Mobile v.12 (Presto) as a regular update
- Reappearing Google search engine beginning probably at v.12.15 on desktop http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=1648442
- Pushing Opera Mini Smartpage without users' consent http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=1755772
- Google search field in Opera Blink that was removable, but then patched in later version to prevent users from removing it http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/show.dml/86356712#comment111639102
- Using Chrome's tacks to distribute the software: bundling it with other updates on unsuspecting people http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=14997322

All this happened within this year. Isn't this enough to totally demolish the reputation of the company? At least I can't even consider the software any more for ethical reasons...
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2013-11-27, 18:49:40
I'll copy my response (http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=14997792) as well:

Quote from: ersi
- Mobile v.14 (Chromium) on top of Mobile v.12 (Presto)

Trust me, I know (http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=14996592).
Quote from: ersi
- Opera Mini Smartpage http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=1755772 (http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=1755772)

Wait, what? I occasionally use Opera Mini when I'm not on wifi and I have something of direct importance for me (e.g. bus/tram times). Some stupid "SmartPage" would probably use more than 10 times as much data as the one bookmarked page I check with images disabled. Ugh, that's awful.
Quote from: ersi
Quote from: bcbear86
I found out that when Java was updated, it had an option to install Opera and she didn't uncheck the box.
Quo vadis, Opera? Bejeezus...

I guess I can simply c/p what I said about Google:

http://my.opera.com/chooseopera/blog/show.dml/110522522?startidx=1100#comment113732752
Quote from: Frenzie
Besides a quick check whether you're indeed upgrading Flash and not some malware, who expects an update to install a new browser or some other piece of unrelated software? On top of which, there isn't always a checkbox either. Software companies tend to "forget" that, especially if you set it to update automatically. As if you automatically want to install other crap on your computer.

And if Google is offering money for such practices, why shouldn't one blame Google? Last I checked the person who pays a hitman also goes down for murder. :P

Quo vadis? I think I'll go straight for Et tu, Opera?
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2013-11-27, 19:12:52
One of Weblink's many decades-old bugs rears its ugly head on Chropera: http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=14997142

With Presto there's always been a steady improvement one version to the next, but with Webkit it always seems like they're too busy implementing the next -webkit-nonsense to fix bugs. Is there any proof yet that Blink's any better?
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2013-11-27, 19:48:10

I can't be bothered to download Chrome/Chropera for testing but I assume they can read a plain text file.
I assume then that you are utterly uninterested about Chropera's possible arrival to Linux.

Meanwhile I have gathered a humble list of atrocities that the company committed against its user base this year http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=14997702

- Pushing Mobile v.14 (Chromium) on top of Mobile v.12 (Presto) as a regular update
- Reappearing Google search engine beginning probably at v.12.15 on desktop http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=1648442
- Pushing Opera Mini Smartpage without users' consent http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=1755772
- Google search field in Opera Blink that was removable, but then patched in later version to prevent users from removing it http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/show.dml/86356712#comment111639102
- Using Chrome's tacks to distribute the software: bundling it with other updates on unsuspecting people http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=14997322

All this happened within this year. Isn't this enough to totally demolish the reputation of the company? At least I can't even consider the software any more for ethical reasons...



Very well stated, & quite factually sound ersi -- particularly your linking to citations --- well done!! (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/thumbs/good.gif)(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/clapping.gif)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2013-11-27, 22:21:23
I include below a complete copy of the thread linked by ersi (http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=14995392), since someone at Opera appears to have privatized it. [edit]ersi noticed too (http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=14998202).[/edit]
----------------------
Opera 18 took my defaults and won't give them back
Quote from: bcbear86
I am running Windows 8 Pro x64 and my daughter installed O18 yesterday and when I went to open certain file types (.rar, .torrent, emails, etc...) They didn't open in the normal program.  I have fixed the .rar and emails, but the .torrent files won't open anymore. I have tried the Windows set default programs to no avail. I have done regedit to check file associations to no avail.  I even pointed the .torrent files to notepad to no avail just to see what happened. Everything was working fine before the O18 install. Please help!!


Quote from: Pesala
To open Torrents you have to use Opera 12.16 or earlier. In Preferences, Programs, Details, check the file types that you want to open in Opera. Check HTML, Protocols, etc., if you want Opera 12.16 to be your default browser again.


Quote from: bcbear86
I just want to put the default back to uTorrent, not Opera. I have already uninstalled Opera to see if that works and no go.


Quote from: LinuxMint7
Right click the .torrent file and select "Open with...", the select utorrent from the program file list that appears and place a tick in the box at the base of the list that says something like "Always use this program" or some such.

I'm not using Windows at the moment, so can not tell you the exact wording.


Quote from: ersi
Quote from: LinuxMint7
Right click the .torrent file and select "Open with...", the select utorrent from the program file list that appears and place a tick in the box at the base of the list that says something like "Always use this program" or some such.

I'm not using Windows at the moment, so can not tell you the exact wording.
Yes, it should work to right-click on a file type, .rar, emails, etc. select a program to open it with and check "Always use this program".

Another possibility. IIRC, there's a setting in utorrent too to make it the default for torrent files. Same with most email programs Open the program up, find the setting and make it the default. With Opera 18 gone, it should stay like this until someone installs this or some other evil program on your computer.


Quote from: bcbear86
...my daughter installed O18 yesterday...


To prevent children from ruining your workspace, have multiple user accounts in your computer and always remember to lock the screen when you are away. I know Windows is not good at separating user accounts and delimiting their permissions. This is one of the important reasons why I moved over to Linux. I have lots of children, siblings, relatives, and neighbours running around in the house. Multiple user accounts with strict permissions became rather vital.


Quote from: bcbear86
Quote from: LinuxMint7
Right click the .torrent file and select "Open with...", the select utorrent from the program file list that appears and place a tick in the box at the base of the list that says something like "Always use this program" or some such.

I'm not using Windows at the moment, so can not tell you the exact wording.



I did this and it went through the motions of changing the default but never actually changed it.


Quote from: ersi
Another possibility. IIRC, there's a setting in utorrent too to make it the default for torrent files. Same with most email programs Open the program up, find the setting and make it the default. With Opera 18 gone, it should stay like this until someone installs this or some other evil program on your computer.



Did this too to no avail. I even tried a System Restore Point and it didn't fix the issue. Ah well, It may be time for a reinstall of Windows


Quote from: bcbear86
Quote from: ersi
To prevent children from ruining your workspace, have multiple user accounts in your computer and always remember to lock the screen when you are away. I know Windows is not good at separating user accounts and delimiting their permissions. This is one of the important reasons why I moved over to Linux. I have lots of children, siblings, relatives, and neighbours running around in the house. Multiple user accounts with strict permissions became rather vital.



I found out that when Java was updated, it had an option to install Opera and she didn't uncheck the box.


Quote from: Krake
Quote from: bcbear86
I found out that when Java was updated, it had an option to install Opera and she didn't uncheck the box.


Could you please provide a link for the location Java was updated from?
I'm asking because I'm not using Java but I would like to check the installer myself.

Thanks in advance.

Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: krake on 2013-11-27, 22:56:17
I assume then that you are utterly uninterested about Chropera's possible arrival to Linux.

As it looks for now Chropera isn't an option for me. Wonder if it ever will be.
I have downloaded and tested Chropera 15 beta for ten minutes (cold - no internet connection).
That was my only experience with Chropera and my curiosity got healed for a year at least. So far about the new Blink shell.
What's worst, Opera ASA has lost my respect and trust.
The damage control spin on the (old) Dektop Team Blog was simply disgusting.
I hate double-tongued speach and lies. It's even worse than the crap they try to defend.

The only thing I enjoyed was the fact that they designed and released their new Chropera without bookmarks.
If stupidity would hurt then the noise at Opera labs would be infernal.
Rewriting the code several times must be very funny :)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2013-11-27, 23:04:58
I hate double-tongued speach and lies.

Yes! That's what bothers me about Pesala's stay calm and dispassionate messages. Staying calm about some of that drivel is equivalent to swallowing the hogwash.

http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=14992042
Quote from: Frenzie
http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=14810762
Quote from: Frenzie
Quote from: somewhere (unbeknown to me at the time, The Vision Behind Opera 15 and Beyond)
Off-road mode in Opera 15 adds SPDY to the mix so that your pages render even faster.

No, it doesn't. Opera 12.10 already added SPDY (proof (http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/2012/10/23/spdy-support-for-turbo), or perhaps the official changelog (http://www.opera.com/docs/changelogs/unified/1210/) is more to the point). Whoever wrote that is either ignorant or lying.

The myth that Opera 15 added SPDY is by now well-spread thanks to that very blog post. Not even my tech writer friend bothered to correct his post on Opera 15 (http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/opera-15-is-a-faster-simpler-chrome-and-here-are-3-great-reasons-to-try-it/) when I informally pointed out this falsity, which I find somewhat disconcerting. Orwellian is right: soon the Opera Minitrue will remove these traces of the past to which I link. One of them is scheduled to disappear on March 1, 2014. And with Disqus, the Minitrue doesn't even have to bother deleting anything, because nothing can ever be found that way. It might as well not be there at all.

Some of us are passionate about dispassion. I prefer being passionate about the truth.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2013-11-28, 04:16:06
Quote from: Frenzie of a post he quoted from bcbear86
I am running Windows 8 Pro x64 and my daughter installed O18 yesterday and when I went to open certain file types (.rar, .torrent, emails, etc...) They didn't open in the normal program.  I have fixed the .rar and emails, but the .torrent files won't open anymore. I have tried the Windows set default programs to no avail. I have done regedit to check file associations to no avail.  I even pointed the .torrent files to notepad to no avail just to see what happened. Everything was working fine before the O18 install. Please help!!


That's why I only use Portable Versions of software if I can.

All my browsers are Portable versions. When I install them they are installed into any folder I choose. They have absolutely no Registry appearances or dependencies.

Any & every modification or change I make, or any program/add-on/extension/plug-in makes, to the preferences are in that one folder.

To totally backup the browser, all it's preferences, & all its pieces & parts, I just make a folder called BACKUPS, highlight the folder the browser is in, select copy, & then paste it in its entirety into the BACKUPS folder named & dated so I can have as many backup copies I so wish.......Can't be any easier than that.

If I want to back up other parts or pieces, I copy whatever, & paste it into a logical sub folder in my BACKUPS folder.

To remove the browser, all I have to do is highlight the folder & hit/select delete.

To resurrect any backup, all I do I copy it from the BACKUPS Folder to wherever I wish....it's ready to use immediately....cant be any simpler than that.

No external updates of any browser, or any component of it can mess with it, & if at any time it somehow gets corrupted/messed up, all you need to do is delete it & resurrect your latest backup.

I'm replacing each & every software that becomes available as a portable ---- there are many hundreds of them --- when they become available.

(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/ps.gif).....They are also great when you want to take it (them) with you wherever you go too!
Just load them up on your USB stick, & when you want your browser say --- exactly as it is was at home --- it's right there to be copied, or simply run directly from your key-chain USB stick.

Portable Browsers & Other Internet Software (http://portableapps.com/apps/internet)

Many other Portable Softwares (http://portableapps.com/apps)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: j7n on 2013-11-28, 04:35:19
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Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2013-11-28, 08:56:57
File associations are useful. How else would you open a text file into notepad, or a picture in a graphics editor? Use a one huge honking send to menu that takes a second or two to load?

That's a severe defect of the "portable" philosophy. A truly portable program would allow me to lift it up, plant it wherever I like, and then allow me to use its "make this the default for..." function (if available). Instead "portable" programs tend to gray that out, so you have to use workarounds. I vehemently disagree with e.g. foobar2000 and Opera on this point, both of which thus made their seemingly simple "portable" installer option a timewasting display of uselessness. For Opera/Presto you need to extract the installer file with 7-Zip or use the /singleuser flag. For foobar2000 I forget, but I think it was something like this (http://fransdejonge.com/2009/12/how-to-make-µtorrent-independent-from-documents-settings/).

I basically only object to those non-portable software products that operate on large data sets (like video games with large worlds, google earth comes to mind, even though I don't use it anymore) and clutter up the users/ directory. They should have configurable working directory(-ies) for their varying tasks, but instead they dump everything into my users/ path.

On a slightly related note, I once installed... I think it was Microsoft Office 2003. It doesn't really matter what it was, but I told it to install to D:\Whatever because I didn't want it hogging up all my space on C:\.* To my surprise it then proceeded to fill up C:\ with a gigabyte or two of "base files" while only putting a few dozens of MBs on D:\ related to the actual Word, Powerpoint, etc. Makes you wonder what the point of allowing the user to choose a directory is at all.

Something even dumber occurred when I tried Steam back in '04 or '05. I erroneously assumed I'd be able to choose where the program downloaded and where it would try to install things. Not so. It also left a hogging, instability causing(!) process open constantly, so it quickly disappeared from my system.

* On Windows I'd been using a division between /, /home, and to some degree e.g. /bin and /usr for years before I discovered this kind of configuration came with most Linux distros by default. C:\ for OS and perhaps some programs, D:\ for programs that don't require installation to run or for those too large to fit on C:\, and E:\ for my data. This allowed me to wipe and reinstall Windows without really affecting me much.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: j7n on 2013-11-28, 09:39:58
ׂ
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ohme on 2013-11-28, 10:15:35

I include below a complete copy of the thread linked by ersi (http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=14995392), since someone at Opera appears to have privatized it. [edit]ersi noticed too (http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=14998202).[/edit]


Thanks for the information, this looks bad. :(


Opera 18 took my defaults and won't give them back
Quote from: bcbear86
I found out that when Java was updated, it had an option to install Opera and she didn't uncheck the box.


Did anybody confirm this?
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2013-11-28, 11:19:49
Foobar, µTorrent, PDF XChange, Reaper and EmEditor, offer intuitive switches between portable and installed modes, and one doesn't need to re-run the installer to make a switch. They're not that bad.

You can relatively easily make them portable as a switch from being regularly installed as long as you figure out what to put where, but can you do the reverse as easily? Like I said, they tend to gray out the file associations function. (Okay, you can associate files with Windows, but it's a bit of a bother seeing how you can't even resize that window... if there's one thing I hate in Windows it's that too many OS-related windows are unresizable.)


I can probably be grateful to the "portable movement" for causing this change in software, instead of it terminating with an error message like this:

"The application configuration is incorrect. Please run the installer from the original CD."

I don't know about the others I mentioned, but by my definition µTorrent, foobar2000, and Opera have become less portable since the portable movement made them "portable". In each case we're essentially talking about now more-hidden single-profile support. The error of which you speak didn't affect me that much because applications that did so automatically weeded themselves out of my application stack over the years. :)

All partitions can go on hda if there is only one drive, but since temp is stressed hard, it's better on a separate disk from system and programs.

I mount /tmp in RAM. See here (http://fransdejonge.com/2012/07/ssd-optimizations/).
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: krake on 2013-11-28, 11:20:45

That's a severe defect of the "portable" philosophy. A truly portable program would allow me to lift it up, plant it wherever I like, and then allow me to use its "make this the default for..." function (if available). Instead "portable" programs tend to gray that out, so you have to use workarounds.

It depends on how one defines "portable".
The interpretation I grew up with: All files in one Folder/subfolder(s) which you can put wherever you want and no traces in Windows' registry.
Therefore "portable" is not the recommended option for average users.
Advanced users will be able to make the file associations they want on their own.
I agree that the ideal way is to make options for file associations even in portable software, associations the user can also easily delete if he wants to.
However the above is not a mandatory requirement for portable software IMO.

Under no circumstances should portable software leave any trace in Windows' registry without user approval. That's my understanding of "portable" at least.
As an example, none of Mark Russinovich's utilities (http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals) is portable even though you don't have to run an installer.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2013-11-28, 11:26:10


I include below a complete copy of the thread linked by ersi (http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=14995392), since someone at Opera appears to have privatized it. [edit]ersi noticed too (http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=14998202).[/edit]


Thanks for the information, this looks bad. :(

I tried to make a joke about it on the forums, but I actually think it's a serious case - again. Some of these alleged autobans just don't smell right. If autoban is really so trigger happy, then why, for example, am I still a member?



Opera 18 took my defaults and won't give them back
Quote from: bcbear86
I found out that when Java was updated, it had an option to install Opera and she didn't uncheck the box.

Did anybody confirm this?

If you have Windows at hand, go ahead and give Java updates a shot.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2013-11-28, 11:43:03
However the above is not a mandatory requirement for portable software IMO.

You could argue that I'm talking about transferable, not portable, but I believe any distinction between the two to be completely artificial. This is easy to see when talking about e.g. foobar2000 and Opera, both of which artificially disable functionality related to its transferable aspect just because it happens to be in portable mode. Whether the program is "portable" or "transferable" depends on how I use it at that particular moment.

NB Opera should disable the default browser check in portable mode and it should run as a single-user profile, so I do in fact believe an installer option is appropriate. Although I'm not convinced the default browser check option is ever appropriate by default, but that aside.
Under no circumstances should portable software leave any trace in Windows' registry without user approval. That's my understanding of "portable" at least.

Yes, that is quite correct. My problem is when they take it one step further and remove the possibility for explicitly user-initiated action. There's a reason they come with an "associate a dozen file types and several protocols" button in the first place. On properly written applications you can also select which of the dozen supported filetypes you wish to associate with the application in question.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ohme on 2013-11-28, 12:04:30



I include below a complete copy of the thread linked by ersi (http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=14995392), since someone at Opera appears to have privatized it. [edit]ersi noticed too (http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=14998202).[/edit]


Thanks for the information, this looks bad. :(

I tried to make a joke about it on the forums, but I actually think it's a serious case - again. Some of these alleged autobans just don't smell right. If autoban is really so trigger happy, then why, for example, am I still a member?


lol --- maybe they are preaching "liberal mindset" according to some! :p ;)




Opera 18 took my defaults and won't give them back
Quote from: bcbear86
I found out that when Java was updated, it had an option to install Opera and she didn't uncheck the box.

Did anybody confirm this?

If you have Windows at hand, go ahead and give Java updates a shot.


The XP machine which has java is a offline box.
Opera used to be one of the trusted software vendor, now I've to be careful of future I guess! :(
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: krake on 2013-11-28, 12:12:04

If you have Windows at hand, go ahead and give Java updates a shot.

I have Windows at hand but without Java.
I went to Oracles download page and I havn't seen any option in their JRE installer as described by bcbear86.
That's why I asked him to provide the link where his daughter has updated from.
However the whole story is weird because of more than one reason.
- Opera abruptly privatized the thread.
On the other hand
- If Opera indeed uses such scams to propagate their browser, bcbear86 can't be the only person affected.
I couldn't find (as yet) any references to such practices of Opera on the net.

Furthermore bcbear86 claims that Chropera messed up his .torrent file association. Does Chropera have support for torrent?
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2013-11-28, 12:23:51
Furthermore bcbear86 claims that Chropera messed up his .torrent file association. Does Chropera have support for torrent?

Yeah, that led me to wonder whether it could've been Opera with Java bundled as opposed to vice versa. Then again, how long has it been since that even existed?
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: krake on 2013-11-28, 12:34:04
Although I'm not convinced the default browser check option is ever appropriate by default, but that aside.

It isn't IMO.
Quote from: Frenzie
My problem is when they take it one step further and remove the possibility for explicitly user-initiated action. There's a reason they come with an "associate a dozen file types and several protocols" button in the first place.

I see and agree. However they can't stop the advanced user from making the associations from OS level, leaving their button untouched. As for the average user, he will be glad to have a button he can click on.
Quote from: Frenzie

On properly written applications you can also select which of the dozen supported filetypes you wish to associate with the application in question.

Properly written and honest applications :)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: j7n on 2013-11-28, 12:59:33
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Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2013-11-28, 13:22:31
Even as an user-initiated action? How would one retake the protocols and htm file associations afterwards?

Just by default.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2013-11-28, 14:02:18
Just a revision of events concerning the mysterious case of bcbear86.

1. Chropera allegedly took over .torrent and other file type associations and the normal restoration methods didn't work.

It's implausible that Chropera did it. However, hijacking of file type associations by various programs happens often enough. I know Windows users who complain often enough that some file types important to them, such as .doc and .pdf, don't open any more. I personally dumped Windows at Vista. When on Vista, I was always able to restore and modify file type associations as I pleased. Am I too advanced user (and others therefore too dumb in comparison) or has some freaky development occurred somewhere when moving to 7 and 8?

2. "When Java was updated, it had an option to install Opera and she [daughter] didn't uncheck the box."

That Chropera comes bundled with some Java update like Chrome is plausible, because Opera ASA is in bed with Google now. This cannot be too widely known yet because Chropera is a fresh product. And even when known, this practice cannot be too widely and publicly denounced, because Ask toolbar and Chrome and whatnot have also not been too widely denounced for the same practices. People seem to think that this sneakiness (foistware) is normal.

On the other hand, given that there's some daughter (n00b dumbuser) involved in action, implies that nothing in this report can be taken too literally. The author of the posts may not be much more advanced than the daughter. Maybe the author is the daughter herself or it's just the family cat typing. This is roughly the same point as my comments on event #1 - It's implausible that Chropera did it, even though file type associations get hijacked on Windows often enough.

3. The author of the thread gets banned and the thread disappears from the orbit.

This is like the fifth or sixth time I see it happen in the course of maybe three years. By now it takes a whole lotta convincing to make me believe it's a mere coincidence or a pure accident.

P.S. For some light reading, here's the article where I got the term "foistware" from http://www.zdnet.com/a-close-look-at-how-oracle-installs-deceptive-software-with-java-updates-7000010038/
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2013-11-28, 15:02:31
Regarding your point 1, I always wonder how a user can become more advanced if everything's hidden. Windows Vista and up hide the menu bar, so the file associations feature might be hard to find.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: j7n on 2013-11-28, 15:09:26
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Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2013-11-28, 15:29:05
"I wouldn't dismiss software getting downloaded along with Java"

Nor with Flash. Happens all the time. I tried Safari around the same time I tried Steam and it pulled iTunes along with a Safari update. #$%$ Apple. As if it weren't enough that their products lack as much nativeness as can be.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: krake on 2013-11-28, 17:15:30

Regarding your point 1, I always wonder how a user can become more advanced if everything's hidden.


You hit the nail. That's also the main reason for designing software to become more and more obscure.
The dumbing down process is then advertised as innovation and modern design.
No wonder that average users are more clueless today as they were 15 years ago.
The more clueless the user the better you can squeeze him.
On the other side, most users simply don't care. All they want is to be connected to the internet. So dumbing down is an easy game.


I decided to try the latest Flash player to see if there was a bundled browser, and if it could be unchecked.


F**k Adobe. I never use their Flash installer. I only grab the browser plugin.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2013-11-28, 18:15:44
I had the joy of downloading Flash recently, it was needed to make You-Tube work-- or at least that particular video, can't be sure. It tried a stealth McAfee download, I caught it and stopped it, then downloaded Flash by itself.

Years back, I used to use McAfee, eventually I dumped it in favor of AVG because McAfee was a resource hog. Now, the stealth download attempt puts McAfee on my permanently banned list because no antivirus suite that has to be installed by foistware is to be trusted.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2013-11-28, 18:43:29
On the other side, most users simply don't care. All they want is to be connected to the internet. So dumbing down is an easy game.

I truly don't comprehend it. There are apparently people out there who don't care that their computer doesn't do exactly what they want. Or people who don't care that they have to click twice as much to reach a function even though a computer's purpose is increasing efficiency. Simply put, the computer serves me, not I the computer. (By extension, my data belongs to me, not to some server in the great blue yonder.)

Actually this is part of the reason that Windows drove me away. Not only malware (foistware, whatever) like Flash and Java, but even Windows itself doing all manner of things behind my back. Sure, you can tame it, disable automatic updates or set it to download only, etc. but I think the whole design philosophy breathes it. There's also stuff like sticky keys (whatever that is) annoying me whenever I hold the shift key for a few seconds on a computer that isn't mine. The good guys at Microsoft during the development of Vista and I guess the good guys at Opera lost or were losing during the development of Opera 11ish. Where by good guys I mean those who care about the user in such matters as functionality, backwards compatibility, and simply not forcing their own vision as The Right Way™.

Years back, I used to use McAfee, eventually I dumped it in favor of AVG because McAfee was a resource hog. Now, the stealth download attempt puts McAfee on my permanently banned list because no antivirus suite that has to be installed by foistware is to be trusted.

Completely agreed. Such shady practices are the definition of malware as far as I'm concerned.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2013-11-28, 18:44:55


That's a severe defect of the "portable" philosophy. A truly portable program would allow me to lift it up, plant it wherever I like, and then allow me to use its "make this the default for..." function (if available). Instead "portable" programs tend to gray that out, so you have to use workarounds.

It depends on how one defines "portable".
The interpretation I grew up with: All files in one Folder/subfolder(s) which you can put wherever you want and no traces in Windows' registry.
Therefore "portable" is not the recommended option for average users.
Advanced users will be able to make the file associations they want on their own.

I agree that the ideal way is to make options for file associations even in portable software, associations the user can also easily delete if he wants to.
However the above is not a mandatory requirement for portable software IMO.

Under no circumstances should portable software leave any trace in Windows' registry without user approval. That's my understanding of "portable" at least.
As an example, none of Mark Russinovich's utilities (http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals) is portable even though you don't have to run an installer.



Exactly.

Nothing permanently goes into, or out of, the Registry.

There is always activity on the 'host' computer -- cache & temp files -- but that's perfectly normal.

I couple my 'travel' portable usage (when I key-chain my software) with Disk Cleaner Portable (http://portableapps.com/apps/utilities/disk_cleaner_portable), & Clear All History Portable (http://www.morun.net/www/products/clear-all-history-portable.html).  I use both to ensure that when I finish my session I clean all traces of usage, not for privacy reasons -- it's nice to know there's nothing personal left on the host computer that can be casually discovered though -- but I use it out of respect for the owner of the 'host' computer, returning/freeing any lost space on their hard drive(s) related to my usage.(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/friends01.gif)

Disk Cleaner is free, & Clear All History is only about $25, but if installed on a USB the 15 day 'Trial Period' can be defeated by simply deleting it & reinstalling it.
Unless yer a Scott, I suggest you spring for the software & own it outright. Seriously, the cost is only 'tip money'! (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/exitstageright.gif)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: j7n on 2013-11-28, 18:56:59
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Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: krake on 2013-11-28, 20:48:13

I truly don't comprehend it. There are apparently people out there who don't care that their computer doesn't do exactly what they want. Or people who don't care that they have to click twice as much to reach a function even though a computer's purpose is increasing efficiency. Simply put, the computer serves me, not I the computer. (By extension, my data belongs to me, not to some server in the great blue yonder.)

Let me give you an example:
There is an app which permits you to make selectively file associations.
What if the user doesn't know which file extension stands for what.
He could of course look them up first and decide afterwards what to associate and what not, according to his needs but he doesn't.
He checks them all to make sure 'everything will work'. Even the fact that he is offered a choice might confuse him.
You may say that I'm exagerating. Take a look at Google Chrome. Does it work for its user base exactly as they want? For sure it does. They can view content with it and that's exactly the only thing they want :)  As I said, dumbing down is an easy game.
Unfortunately with this dumbing down-philosophy even users interested and willing to learn will be affected.


Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2013-11-28, 20:57:04
Heh, Irfanview supports about a hundred different file formats. I wonder if even the author remembers what they all are. :P
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: krake on 2013-11-28, 20:57:41

It takes a bit of searching around the net to get the NPSWF32.dll plugin only, but it's possible. [1] (http://w2k.flxsrv.org/wlu/wlu.htm), [2] (http://forum.ru-board.com/topic.cgi?forum=5&topic=8028)

You might also check number [3] (https://files.myopera.com/Krake/files/NPSWF32.zip)
It's a special one (v.11.8.800.168)  :)
No Flash cookies and .swf content will be saved automatically in your .temp folder.
You just have to change the file name from  .temp to .MP4

Edit:
Content won't be saved on Youtube. They have changed their code since I last checked.
Sorry for the inconvenience ):
You can test here (http://www.dailyhaha.com/videos/animals/) how it was supposed to work.
Those videos are still saved.
On Windows7 the location is: C:\Users\*****\AppData\Local\Temp
You can drag and drop the saved .tmp files direct into SMPlayer (MPlayer) or rename them to .mp4 and open them with the player of your choice.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: j7n on 2013-11-28, 22:01:11
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Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2013-11-29, 09:15:16
This might sound a bit harsh, but thanks to Ruari (https://twitter.com/ruari/status/406335025961897985) I found out that BS-Harou (https://twitter.com/BSHarou)* is single-handedly pushing Opera 15+ into usable territory (https://twitter.com/ruari/status/406360736508547073) using nothing but extensions.

* Note to self, invite him here.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: krake on 2013-11-29, 12:03:09
Thanks for the link Frenzie.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2013-11-29, 13:06:56
Straight up: I don't like this comment by BS-Harou http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/show.dml/43047152#comment85890822
Quote
With all the DnD that is now going to happen all over Internet, it might be good idea to finally implement "-o-user-select: none " in CSS
I don't like this CSS element (and its variants). I don't like what it does. BS-Harou has been consistent over the years supporting its implementation. You noticed I had a little debate with Pesala recently that involved this element...

PS bcbear86 is unbanned and his thread reopened.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2013-11-29, 13:49:32
It was present in an earlier version of CSS3 (http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/WD-css3-userint-20000216#user-select), but it was dropped. I'm sure they had good reasons. Then again, I never understood why they chose the box model they did.

In any case, I think this sounds more like a job for Javascript than for CSS. Why shouldn't an event.preventDefault() or two do the trick? It seems to have worked just fine on, say, Google Maps for the past 10 years.

On the other hand, I can see how something like the quote display on this forum could be implemented in pure CSS as opposed to an image with generated, but then the " quotation mark would become selectable. For such decorative elements, user-select:none might be useful. Of course, presently it's decidedly untrustworthy and not useful at all precisely because of the lack of a spec.

Btw, here's another hint that at least some people at Opera like plain-text configuration, just like me: http://dev.opera.com/articles/view/themes-in-opera-18-and-higher
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: krake on 2013-11-29, 19:23:59

Btw, here's another hint that at least some people at Opera like plain-text configuration, just like me: http://dev.opera.com/articles/view/themes-in-opera-18-and-higher

Any sane person would prefer plain-text configuration but who cares about users especially sane ones.
The only possible advantage of .db might be a few milliseconds speed gain at cost of memory but only on modern computers. On elder ones it might be slower.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2013-11-29, 19:38:38
You can invite BS-Harou here, but if he has strong opinions or even a philosophy built around his view on 'user-select:none' (as I suspect he has), there will be dispute. Which is okay. We are a heterogenous group here already.

About plain-text config files - excellent in principle, but implementing it for themes is not indicative of any trend to me. It doesn't remove the Chromeness from Chropera. It's not even a baby step back towards Opera.

Some day I should present some concise statement about what I believe true Opera to be, or what good software is at least. It's horrible to see Haavard gradually dismantling his definitive list that many of us used to refer to http://my.opera.com/haavard/blog/2012/10/19/what-is-opera
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2013-11-29, 20:59:22
http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=15003162
Am I going too far too quickly? I'm just so damned tired of people excusing the inexcusable.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: j7n on 2013-11-29, 21:05:01
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Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2013-11-29, 21:20:58
Because he claims it's available as an option in the Chropera installer. Are you saying it's not?
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: krake on 2013-11-29, 21:21:43

Why is 30. 'Portable installation' crossed out in Haavard's list?

Because it's already available in Chopera.

I also misunderstood the meaning of crossed out items and therefore had to delete one of my above comments  :-[
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: krake on 2013-11-29, 21:25:10

Because he claims it's available as an option in the Chropera installer. Are you saying it's not?

If I recall exactly it was already available in v.15 beta, the only one I've tested.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: j7n on 2013-11-29, 21:55:52
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Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2013-11-29, 22:18:19
I also misunderstood the meaning of crossed out items and therefore had to delete one of my above comments

It made perfect sense to me under the assumption that you meant some of his crossed out items were a bit overreaching, or that you considered many of them insufficient. For instance, is tab stashing (http://my.opera.com/haavard/blog/2013/07/07/12transition-lotsatabs) truly equivalent to having many dozens of pages open? It is for some uses, possibly for most uses, but certainly not for all uses. Back in high school I wrote a paper about fractals. I had over a hundred pages with background information and nicely rendered fractals open.* Stashing them would've just forced me to perform more actions with the same result.

Even right now I have 50 pages open for some light browsing. Chromium would be unbearably slow, as well as using up all of my RAM. Could I stash a bunch? Sure! But it'd still be more work on my part...

What I don't understand is why speed dial isn't crossed out. Admittedly I hardly care for the thing, but it was just about the only feature Opera 15 launched with.

* Incidentally, this was on a computer with something like 512MB RAM.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2013-11-30, 08:23:30

http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=15003162
Am I going too far too quickly? I'm just so damned tired of people excusing the inexcusable.

You are too modest. You retract and retreat too fast http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=15003462
Quote from: Frenzie
Quote from: blackbird71
But to attribute the statements of Opera developers, certain incongruous details within change logs, or "official" statements by Opera to a conscious process of lying, deliberate deception[snip]

That's not what I'm suggesting, so I probably expressed myself poorly.

I personally suggest precisely this: They are deliberately deceiving and lying. And I effectively said so in my own post in the thread. No reason to put it in stronger words, I was blunt enough.

The deception deserves to be uncovered by the means available to us (within the limits of reason and conscience of course). I personally am not afraid to throw the hooks of their propaganda (which is the synonym for PR) back at their face. Which is what I got my ban threats for - directly catching one employee at a lie that he couldn't admit or spin, and charging another for failing to address the point I had brought up. He gave the answer that I had already dismissed when presenting my question. I don't regret any of this. It went very well because I didn't get banned after all :)

What Haavard is doing to his blog post, I call it dismantling because he shows that Chropera can do the same as Opera in a way, by means of workarounds, etc. At each strikethrough he links to another blog post where he shows this. I call this dismantling because the strikethroughs leave the impression that he is progressively retracting the original items on the list. Which of course he is, because when this goes on for long enough, the original post will consist mainly of strikethroughs. He is an employee at the company and a proponent of the move to Webkit, directly engaging with users in the comments section. He says that Chropera is Opera too - already now. For me it will never be. So I am diametrically opposed to his standpoint.

I didn't know of Andre Zanghelini's post. It's a good example of the frustration caused by the move to Webkit, but the comments section bears the marks that he is more of an emotional type rather than rational and principled. As an emotional type, he is relieved by mere venting and is then vulnerable to smickering by the highups of the PR artillery. Or maybe I'm mistaken. He could be just playing their own game back at them when he says he would revise and correct his post and could retract this or that. Which is also a tack :) The best moment on that page for me is the long comment by QuHno. Of course, as PR strategy dictates, he is completely ignored by the rest of discussion, despite being profoundly relevant.

Edit: removed the duplicate..
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: krake on 2013-11-30, 09:05:39

It made perfect sense to me under the assumption that you meant some of his crossed out items were a bit overreaching, or that you considered many of them insufficient.


It could have been the case but it wasn't. I simply misunderstood the meaning of crossed out items.

Quote from: Frenzie
For instance, is tab stashing (http://my.opera.com/haavard/blog/2013/07/07/12transition-lotsatabs) truly equivalent to having many dozens of pages open?


No it isn't. It's kind of lousy workaround. Same way I could use Opera notes instead of tabs.
Neither is Blink equivalent to Presto nor vice versa.
When "the silent transition under the hood" was anounced in the forums, general resonance was positive.
It was very sad news for some of us but most people endorsed the change. At this point in spite of my frustration I couldn't blame Opera for doing something most users endorsed. They killed their own baby but that wasn't my business albeit it was/still is my favorite baby as well.
Quote from: Haavard
I regularly have more than 100 tabs on my tab bar in Opera 12.
This has been possible because Presto is an efficient little engine that handles these kinds of situations better than anything else.
In Opera 15, though, I have found that opening a lot of tabs makes for a rather poor browsing experience.
As a result, I have started adding pages to my Stash whenever there's something I'm not going to do right away or in the immediate future.

The way I read it: With Blink it won't work so use Stash as a workaround.

Harvaard's list is incomplete. I can't blame him for it because some items were considered so basic at the time he wrote that list, that including them would have been laughable.
Proxy settings come to my mind. A browser that can't be configured to use a proxy which you can turn on and off on the fly is almost useless for me.  
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2013-11-30, 09:36:01
You are too modest. You retract and retreat too fast

I have ulterior motives (http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=1790182).
I personally suggest precisely this: They are deliberately deceiving and lying. And I effectively said so in my own post in the thread. No reason to put it in stronger words, I was blunt enough.

Nevertheless, I would think that more than lying it might just as well be mostly an unconscious form of coping. After all, you can't work very well on a product you don't like.

NB I do disagree with e.g. Blazej on many points.

I'll make a quick dissection of that vision post for future reference
Quote
When we released our first browser in 1996, most web users were people who weren't afraid to tinker, and who liked lots of options and configurability. Fast-forward 17 years, and the Web is everywhere. Speedy browsing and sites working properly is the most important thing to many, many people.

Yet Opera was always more for tinkerers, wasn't it?
Quote
That leaves us with the riddle that every software developer faces at some point: how best to make a UI simple enough to be intuitive for a consumer who wants a solid, fast browser that just works, and yet is customizable and extensible so that power users can add the features they want?

It's not a riddle. I'd say the answer is staring us in the face in the form of roughly Opera 9-12. I've got a heavily customized menu.ini. Most people do not. The riddle I face is how do you convince devs not to remove features they've decided to hide by default because they're apparently too complicated.
Quote
So, starting from this fresh base, we decided to carefully consider how to build up Opera again: over the years, Presto-based Opera had become overloaded with features, a number of them confusing rather than helping our users -- you can't imagine how many reports we've gotten from users telling us that their favorite site was broken, simply because they had turned on fit-to-width by accident, for instance.

Yet it would've taken literally about a minute to implement a little popup info (overlay?) bar or something, but instead opt to remove it? You can't imagine how many times I've used it to fix a broken fixed-width site, for instance.
Quote
The answer is to build a strong, extensible foundation on which to innovate. Opera 15 is a fresh start, to which we will continue to add features.

I'd say that describes Opera and Firefox fairly well. With Chromium I have my doubts, and Chropera hasn't proved that it's significantly different from Chromium yet. These are probably weasel words to some extent because combined with the previous paragraph it suggests it's talking about extensibility for users, but the tiniest look at Opera 18/19 shows that it must rather be talking about the developers who have the source.
Quote
The same was true for M2: adding it to Opera 15 would require rebuilding it from scratch, more to download for users and more UI for those who don't use the feature. For that reason, we spun it out into a separate download.
Going from 30MB to 40MB is unthinkable, but going from 10MB to 30MB...
Quote
At the same time, we also wanted to give Opera a more native look and feel. And hence, taking also into account that native toolkits have evolved over the last 10 years (especially on Mac), we decided to build the whole UI with native code: we stripped away Chromium's UI layer, and built it piece by piece from scratch -- a big undertaking, and what you see today is just the beginning.

Chropera is the least native looking browser I've ever seen besides Chromium and your average Apple POS. Also it doesn't work at all with e.g. the high contrast color scheme, which is just about the first check for nativeness I perform.
Quote
We introduced the Speed Dial concept in 2007. When we extended it allow unlimited Speed Dial entries, we became aware that the conceptual difference between traditional bookmarks and Speed Dial was shrinking. Indeed, rather than browsing through a tree structure in a menu or panel, hunting for the right bookmark, users were relying on the address bar's auto-complete, Speed Dial entries, or built-in search to get to their site of choice. That gave us the idea to move bookmarks right into the browser window where all the browsing happens. The addition of one level-deep folders with visual thumbnails and super-fast search allows you to find any favorite site in an instant.

Massive quantities of thumbnails and folders limited to one level only, so you use a shitload of extra memory to display about a dozen bookmarks at once instead of about 30-40. What could possibly go wrong?
Quote
We found that modern browsers are hard to do research in. You open tab after tab (comparing different shopping items for instance), and after a while you can't keep track of what's where. Sessions and tab stacking attempted to help, but also confused a lot of users, adding extra UI complexity. So we came up with Stash, which is a vertical overview of items you've added with super-fast full-text search, so you can compare and filter. This limits the amount of tabs you need to have open, reducing the number of running processes.

Translation: Chromium sucks and can't cope with more than a couple dozen pages open at once. Oh, and we forgot to mention, Chromium's page/window/tab management sucks too.
Quote
Now the Web is everywhere, it's very common to be lounging on a sofa, or waiting at a bus stop, entertaining yourself with a notebook, tablet or phone. But with a world of content out there, where to start? Discover is a feature that brings pre-selected content, in a range of languages and subjects, straight to your brain.

Are they making money off the redirects? (Which wouldn't be a bad thing, but not mentioning it is a bit iffy.)
Quote
Not everyone is on a fast connection all the time. Opera 10 introduced Opera Turbo to render pages faster on slow connections, which was subsequently improved by compressing images into WebP format in Opera 11.10. Off-road mode in Opera 15 adds SPDY to the mix so that your pages render even faster.

Nope.
Quote
It's no coincidence that Opera 15 was released on the same day as our rapid release cycle began. You'll soon see what's on the table for future versions. At the moment, we're looking at themes, syncing between devices and improving tab handling.

None of which are functional yet, half a year later. That is, I don't think BS-Harou's extension written in his spare time counts as Opera improving tab handling.
Quote
If you're a power-user (and if you're reading this, you almost certainly are) and you find that Opera 15 doesn't have a feature you depend upon, first check the growing list of extensions. You may find our basic bookmarks manager extension fits the bill -- or you may find the cottonTracks extension is an innovative way to solve a problem. If you miss Notes, try the Evernote extension.

No. If I must use extensions, Firefox extensions are generally of higher quality.
Quote
Edit 10 July: we've announced that we're prioritising building bookmarks functionality after hearing your feedback.

Still waiting. QAB is still indistinguishable from the Chromium bookmarks bar, and as I keep repeating, even IE3 had better bookmarks than Chromium.
Quote
We're looking at your comments and feedback (as we have for 17 years!). Please send us bug reports if you find mistakes. Inside the company, we all have our own personal wish-lists (Bruce keeps harping on about ctrl+enter and Turkish Discover; Andreas harasses us about Extension APIs and bookmarks).

No, you told me to report bugs to the Chromium bug tracker because Blink is not Opera's purview.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2013-11-30, 09:40:55
The way I read it: With Blink it won't work so use Stash as a workaround.

There's another aspect: Chromium doesn't have e.g. the window panel, vertical tabs, tabs on multiple lines, or Ctrl+Tab, so you can never really get an overview of what's going on if you open a little more than Gmail, Google+, and YouTube.
Proxy settings come to my mind. A browser that can't be configured to use a proxy which you can turn on and off on the fly is almost useless for me.

Wait--Opera 15+ does not have proxy settings? Are you serious?
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2013-11-30, 10:15:01
Wait--Opera 15+ does not have proxy settings? Are you serious?

Oh, I see. It has the (rather limited) Windows proxy settings and lacks Opera's quick on/off switch. This is kind of like... well, like bookmarks really. Such a basic feature you never even give it any thought.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2013-12-01, 15:07:16
In case you were wondering about BS-Harou's philosophy, it is somewhat different from mine.
Quote from: BS-Harou
I like having everything that doesn't require speed of native apps in the browser :) Also the advantages of web interface (access from any device with internet connection, no local space required, backups) are in my case more important than advantages of native clients (encryption, speed, offline access).

Somewhat ironically, I might go with native for similar reasons.

Thanks to Unison (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unison_(file_synchronizer)), I have all my files on all my devices. Local space? I bought a new 2TB HDD for €60-70 a few months ago, and in my phone I'd got a 32GB SD card. In my phone's case, its purpose is an offline copy of Wikipedia, a few dictionaries,, some offline maps, and of course the capacity to take pictures and videos. That way I have access everywhere regardless of Internet connection.

Backup? Keeping my data safe is the primary reason (http://howto.wired.com/wiki/Make_a_Local_Backup_Of_Your_Gmail_Account) I want to keep it local, or at least backed up in local copies. To keep it safer, create a rotation of external HDDs you exchange while e.g. visiting your parents. Pay a dedicated backup service. But surely don't depend on those who provide free cloud services.

Also, if I don't shut down my computer, I have access to everything from anywhere in the world through SSH.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: BS-Harou on 2013-12-01, 16:13:21
Well, regarding mobile I often prefer offline as well (maps, music, etc..), at least as long as the apps are usuable when being offline. I hate sites that offer mobile apps, that work only with internet connection, instead of mobile website.

I'm too lazy person to rotate my HDDs :) I preferer not to touch the HW stuff if it is not necessary.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2013-12-01, 16:53:21
For Wikipedia I use Aard Dictionary. http://aarddict.org
I'm too lazy person to rotate my HDDs :) I prefer not to touch the HW stuff if it is not necessary.
Haha, fair enough. But with e.g. Unison it's pretty much all taken care of for you. :)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: j7n on 2013-12-01, 22:13:47
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Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2013-12-01, 22:18:37
On the flipside, it's fantastic that you can read about some old computer system and run it on your browser (http://jsmess.textfiles.com/) seconds later, without installing anything. Frankly I wouldn't be surprised if WordPerfect 5.1 in a JS emulator were more efficient than something like Google Docs. :P
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Sanguinemoon on 2013-12-09, 04:36:29

http://blogs.opera.com/desktop/2013/11/opera-18-landed/#comment-1132645881
Quote from: Daniel Aleksandersen
Do not expect [the Linux version] for another three months at the earliest.
Meaning, in February or March the Linux version of Chropera might land on us. Does it really take so long for the company to get out of desktop browser business that they even dare to promise a Linux version? Well, I guess the credit they earned under Tetzchner is not so easily wasted after all.


Maxthon were promising their users a Linux version for months as well. Since Opera 15, some Opera Linux users were threatening to switch to that. Yet that browser hasn't landed either. Opera cites different GUI toolkits as the reason for delay. I wonder what Maxthon's excuse is. Of course, I wasn't impressed with Maxthon for Windows, so I'm not sure why I would be for the Linux version :p
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2013-12-09, 06:27:34
Yet that browser hasn't landed either.

I don't know where to get it, but I believe I've seen people mention an alpha.
Of course, I wasn't impressed with Maxthon for Windows, so I'm not sure why I would be for the Linux version :p

Over a decade ago I used MyIE2 as my primary browser for a while. It was comparable with Opera in a few ways (MDI, easy search engines). If the list of features is anything to go by, they threw that out. :P
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2013-12-10, 15:29:00
Today's snapshot (http://blogs.opera.com/desktop/2013/12/plenty-in-twenty/) added the ability to drag tabs onto the bookmarks bar.

Also, users continue to make it more usable (http://christoph142.wordpress.com/2013/11/28/download-control/), although the amount of extensions I might need is disconcerting to say the least.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: j7n on 2013-12-10, 15:50:49
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Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2013-12-10, 17:33:38
So you are actually beginning to like it, j7n? Must be Stockholm syndrome...

Here's some quotes from a rant. I already read its years-old earlier version "The decline of the Opera Web browser" but now the text has been updated to "The death of Opera (http://www.kimmoa.se/The_death_of_Opera/)".

Quote
For years, it cost money. They later gave you the choice to run it for "free" by being subjected to advertisements. Even so, I felt that it was superior to the rest in enough ways to use it. Even with the highly questionable default user interface setups and looks (that kept changing all the time), it was still the browser I preferred over the others. It was anything but perfect, but the miserable competition made it shine like a star. At least this is how I and quite a few others perceived it.

At some point, I guess they got sick of having such an extremely small (relatively) market share and changed their business model yet again... As I understand it, they had already for many years received money for their trashy default bookmarks. That'd be OK if it weren't for the fact that, unless my memory is playing tricks on me, it would sometimes add back the garbage bookmarks when you upgraded, mixed in with your existing bookmarks. Very annoying and an ominous sign of what to come.

I'm not saying that it became worse at rendering pages or noticeably slower than before, or that there weren't any welcome additions and improvements in its last years (because there certainly were) -- it was just gradually made more and more obnoxious in a very disturbing manner... There really is no point in listing everything they did wrong. You get the picture. Toward the end, I really starting to dread each update of Opera instead of looking forward to them.

Summary of its death and aftermath

  •    In early 2013, the Opera developers announced that they were dumping their own rendering and JavaScript engines in favour of WebKit and Chromium's V8. They assured everyone that nothing would change and that this would allow them to "focus on making the browser great".

  •     A few months later, there was a new announcement revealing that the new Opera, 15 (they skipped generations 13 and 14), is in fact just a Chrome skin. With no bookmark support. Or mail. Or RSS. Or chat. Or any feature at all that Chrome doesn't already have. In other words, what they said earlier was a lie.

  •     Only after countless useless, unbelievably arrogant blog posts with more bullshit and half-assed "damage control", did they sort of cave in and said they would bring back bookmarks "in some form". However, it's just too late.


For me Opera will be dead as of next year. Let them release the Linux version. I see no reason to install it. Chromes are pointless. We'll see if distro teams upload the thing to their repositories for easy access as the old version has been. Chrome is not there...
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Macallan on 2013-12-10, 17:48:25
Well, time to get rid of the linux compat crap then - running Opera was the only reason I had it installed. If I want to run chromium or some other webkit browser I can run them natively.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2013-12-10, 18:19:25
Must be Stockholm syndrome...

I agree. It's more like it's finally approaching early alpha stage. Perhaps they'll have a near-usable beta out sometime in 2015...

Quote from: Kimmo Alm
And maybe install Firefox, before they ruin that completely as well.

Yeah... too late (https://thedndsanctuary.eu/index.php?topic=49.msg1964#msg1964), bro. :(
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: j7n on 2013-12-10, 19:10:52
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Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2013-12-10, 19:24:27
I felt like praising the team for doing something right.

I pose that it'd take a true genius to make a change from Chromium and have it end up for the worse.
I used Opera since version 7, and it indeed kept changing the UI even then for no good reason. When I got accustomed to the theme being blue, it was turned black in Opera 10.

I thought the default UI reached its peek sometime around 7.5.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2013-12-11, 01:46:07
I have a suspicion Opera might be made into a textbook on how not to do things. Trashing the browser and getting rid of much of the community can't help but make for rough sledding, if not the outright ending, of the browser and the company.

Leushino's constant commenting that spam is the reason for dumping the community doesn't wash in light of the fact that other companies deal with the spam problem without throwing up their hands and closing shop. That, as much as anything, makes me think we're not looking at a high-tech leader half so much as we're looking at guys messing around in their garage on their hobby. Get an idea they think is cool, put it together for an upgrade cycle, get bored with it and dump it within two upgrade cycles--- that's the way to make a browser power users would want to use, eh?
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Macallan on 2013-12-11, 06:53:55

I have a suspicion Opera might be made into a textbook on how not to do things. Trashing the browser and getting rid of much of the community can't help but make for rough sledding, if not the outright ending, of the browser and the company.

Sounds like the bean counters took over :/


Leushino's constant commenting that spam is the reason for dumping the community doesn't wash in light of the fact that other companies deal with the spam problem without throwing up their hands and closing shop.

Bullshit. Appoint a few more moderators to clean up the crap. It's not like the spam doesn't get reported or that there's a lack of people who would do the cleanup if allowed to.


That, as much as anything, makes me think we're not looking at a high-tech leader half so much as we're looking at guys messing around in their garage on their hobby. Get an idea they think is cool, put it together for an upgrade cycle, get bored with it and dump it within two upgrade cycles--- that's the way to make a browser power users would want to use, eh?

Or the new boss is just wildly cutting costs without much regard for anything.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: j7n on 2013-12-11, 11:14:52
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Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2013-12-11, 14:24:21
I believe you might be able to make them permanent in one of the JSON config files. Of course that's made easy through the abundance of documentation available...
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2013-12-11, 18:40:06

Quote
the highly questionable default user interface setups and looks (that kept changing all the time)
I used Opera since version 7, and it indeed kept changing the UI even then for no good reason. When I got accustomed to the theme being blue, it was turned black in Opera 10.
I somewhat avoided this particular trouble by creating my own interface. I created my own toolbar, menus, and keyboard shortcuts files and moved them from one version to next as I upgraded. This way I could keep pretty much the same custom interface across versions.

Of course I agree that it's wrong in principle to introduce new defaults and force them on users with upgrade. Opera did something like this with pretty much every major version, but it was possible to live with it because until v.11 Opera was generally adding features, not removing them. V.12 is just broken 11, and the Blink versions are just Chrome/ium skin, a different product that should have a different name too, for clarity and honesty.


I have a suspicion Opera might be made into a textbook on how not to do things. Trashing the browser and getting rid of much of the community can't help but make for rough sledding, if not the outright ending, of the browser and the company.
Other textbook cases that can be readily cited are Netscape and Nokia.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2013-12-11, 18:43:36
I somewhat avoided this particular trouble by creating my own interface. I created my own toolbar, menus, and keyboard shortcuts files and moved them from one version to next as I upgraded. This way I could keep pretty much the same custom interface across versions.

I've been using the same interface since Opera 8.x. The massive changes from 7.5 to 8 convinced me of the necessity of doing so. Occasionally I added new features (such as deselect with Esc, or DragonFly), but for 10.50 I had to convert some of my toolbar.ini to the new format.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2013-12-11, 20:09:59
http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=15032132
Quote from: Pesala
"Awesome" would be my choice, but I still need a shortcut to toggle it off/on like in Opera 11.64, to save space when not using it. Otherwise, it is already significantly better than the Bookmarks Bar in Opera 11.64. Note that the Quick Access Bar has already been renamed back to the "Bookmarks Bar" in Opera 19-20.

Pesala's apparently happy with the bookmarks bar. I'll include my reply:

Quote from: Frenzie
Quote from: Pesala
Otherwise, it is already significantly better than the Bookmarks Bar in Opera 11.64.

Off the top of my mind, I can think of a few ways in which it's better than the bookmarks bar in Opera 11.64:

- no (visible) access keys
- no ability to open all in folder without right-click
- no images only
- no text only
(-no text under image)
- no ability to put the toolbar on the bottom

Sarcasm aside, you can sort things in folders now, but I'm not at all convinced that's a desired feature--at least not without a lock feature.

I'm glad it's working for you, but it's not better by any stretch of the imagination. It's nowhere near old Opera, let alone Firefox. It's (minutely) better than the bookmarks bar in Chromium.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Belfrager on 2013-12-12, 00:10:26
When the monk joins this "Sanctuary", maybe Ill consider the monk's existence.
Until then the monk is invisible.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2013-12-14, 22:26:13
Ruari posted a little on Chropera's Ctrl+Tab: http://my.opera.com/ruario/blog/2013/12/14/last-active-tab-with-all-keyboard-layouts

Quote from: ruari
From Opera 15 onwards Ctrl+Tab switches between tabs in the order they are in the tab bar. This is different from older Opera versions and was changed because, for many people, this is more intuitive (since it is easier to predict the order).


I happen to disagree. :P

Quote from: Frenzie
Or every user of just about every mainstream and semi-mainstream window manager out there. :right: (Except perhaps Mac and Unity users might expect Ctrl+Tab to switch between domains and Ctrl+` to switch between pages on the same domain or some such.) I have always found this behavior extremely intuitive ever since learning about Alt+Tab in Windows 3.11, because paper documents on my wooden desk stack in the exact same manner.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: jax on 2013-12-15, 13:54:50
I tried to make a joke about it on the forums, but I actually think it's a serious case - again. Some of these alleged autobans just don't smell right. If autoban is really so trigger happy, then why, for example, am I still a member?

You're probably grandfathered in.

Don't blame on malice what you can blame on badly configured software. I can read those threads, they are not particularly embarrassing.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: j7n on 2013-12-15, 15:58:36
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Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2013-12-15, 18:36:37
Sometimes it can take a while for the cache to change.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2013-12-15, 19:36:29

Don't blame on malice what you can blame on badly configured software. I can read those threads, they are not particularly embarrassing.
I honestly am doing my best to place the blame rightly. In my defence, software doesn't configure itself, does it?
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: jax on 2013-12-16, 02:55:48
The forum system is filled with gremlins, there is a reason why they have tried to rewrite it for half a decade. I was sceptical to the "Eek! It is written in Perl (+SQL+XSLT). Let's rewrite it from scratch in Python!" approach, but it is too bad it didn't work out, that's after all the reason we are here. My Opera has occasional synchronisation issues, less nowadays, but that is the new normal. Try Facebook for a system that really suffers from it.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: jax on 2013-12-16, 03:16:24
Regarding your point 1, I always wonder how a user can become more advanced if everything's hidden. Windows Vista and up hide the menu bar, so the file associations feature might be hard to find.


I argued for discoverability, the system starts out simple and as you use it you discover new possibilities that you can take advantage of or ignore. Over time the system will adapt to your needs. There is a great number of hurdles to overcome to manage this well, but Opera was in a position where they could actually pull this off, since many of these hurdles had already been passed more or less successfully to handle other problems.

I used to describe Opera as a configuration engine that could read web pages.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2013-12-16, 05:49:07
I argued for discoverability, the system starts out simple and as you use it you discover new possibilities that you can take advantage of or ignore.
Discoverability as in "Hey, you just made a mouse gesture! Let's do it again! (Or ignore henceforth)" ?
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: jax on 2013-12-16, 06:19:21
In a manner of speaking. Now, I don't consider that the epitome of usability.



But the mouse gestures were discoverable. The reason was that Trond, the designer of mouse gestures, also was in the group shaping the UI. Other features were actively non-discoverable. A modal dialog box for each feature "discovered" while in the process of doing something else, like trying to avoid breaking a bone, would be a horrible UI. There are better ways of doing this.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2013-12-16, 06:26:34
Are you talking about the relatively new popup that shows up after a sustained mouse click or about something further back?
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: j7n on 2013-12-16, 06:32:59
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Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: jax on 2013-12-16, 06:37:52
Quote
Are you talking about the relatively new popup that shows up after a sustained mouse click or about something further back?


I was thinking of the original dialog box, it became  smoother as time went on and version numbers up IIRC. I have no clue what is being done now, haven't had a clean install in years. The point was that unless you were reinstalling a system or something similar, you would not intentionally make a mouse gesture the first time around you triggered that dialog. Basically you got a tool tip at a fairly random point in your browsing history telling users about this great new feature.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: jax on 2013-12-16, 06:52:10
In Opera, I ended up losing my text input (if the page was too complex for Opera to save forms), because I had pressed Back without going anywhere near the Back button. Apart from gestures, which I was warned about, I had absolutely no idea how I did that to avoid doing it again. I later learned that one of the features was "rocker" sequences of input. I killed those but I still acidentally go back every now and then. (https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fdl.dropboxusercontent.com%2Fu%2F88902520%2Fav%2Fmyp%2Fdoh.png&hash=8d88a551c88085822b780ac92d995a1f" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/88902520/av/myp/doh.png)


That is my pet hate in Opera, and by extension every other browser (going back and forward in Opera is still more side-effect free, as it should be according to HTTP, than other browsers), you shall not unintentionally lose data in form controls, crucially in text areas, under no circumstances.

I see that I made this blog post exactly 5 years ago today, half a year after I had quit. 155102: Losing data with Firefox 3 and Opera 10 Alpha (http://my.opera.com/jax/blog/2008/12/16/155102-losing-data-with-firefox-3-and-opera-10-alpha). This bug report, soon to celebrate its 10 year anniversary, and the Core bug that replaced it, was one of the most "popular" ones internally, but somehow never ended up fixed.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2013-12-16, 08:58:21
Basically you got a tool tip at a fairly random point in your browsing history telling users about this great new feature.
Yeah, that's how I found out about it. But it was a somewhat puzzling "You performed a mouse gesture for the first time. Enable mouse gestures?" kind of dialog.

Losing textarea data--that's why I wrote https://github.com/Frenzie/textarea-backup (Or originally adapted from a GM script, but it changed a lot since then.)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: j7n on 2013-12-16, 09:56:50
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Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: jax on 2013-12-16, 10:22:53
Opera kept history admirably up until around 2006-ish (there was, and I believe is, a hard 50 page limit in history, but that was usually not a problem). This was then softened because AJAX sites, as they were called around then, often were in an untenable state, e.g. with submenus open or worse. The competitors promptly forgot them, so this was seen as a bug in Opera. A compromise heuristic was worked out where pages were reloaded  if they were sufficiently AJAXy, Unfortunately that triggers bug 155102, in other words data loss.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2013-12-16, 10:33:46
There's also the matter of crashes. They're veritably rare, but when it happens my UserJS will probably save the day.

But yes, AJAXy nonsense unfortunately forced Opera to handicap one of its primary attractions.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: pizzapops on 2013-12-19, 19:39:04
Today I received another email from Opera about the blogs being discontinued.
Quote
The explosion of these sites and the amount of resources we need to maintain our own service has changed our outlook on My Opera. We had a good run for many years, but we believe your content could have a better home elsewhere, so we have made the decision to shut down My Opera as of March 1, 2014.


Maybe later we will see this one in the future.
Quote
The explosion of blink based browsers and the amount of resources we need to maintain our Opera Browser has changed our outlook at Opera Software ASA. We had a good run for many years, but we believe your browsing could be better served elsewhere, so we have made the decision to shut down Opera as of January 1, 2015.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2013-12-19, 19:53:53
The explosion of blink based browsers and the amount of resources we need to maintain our Opera Browser has changed our outlook at Opera Software ASA. We had a good run for many years, but we believe your browsing could be better served elsewhere, so we have made the decision to shut down Opera as of January 1, 2015.


OMG!!! (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/laughing024.gif)

(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/thumbs/crystal-ball_lg.gif)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2013-12-21, 20:55:01
It's a little bit "funny" I suppose, but one of the users more than anything else made me decide I had had enough. The expressed attitude by this character who I will not name at this time was so toxic that, if his viewpoint was at all shared by the higher-ups at ASA, it would make the decision to leave and never look back an easy one. Funny thing is, he's been cheering the changes being made as if turning the browser into a Facebook app and closing the community was the best thing since sliced bread. Maybe for some people it is, and for the rest of us-- maybe it IS time to leave and not look back.

Disengaging from MyOpera in 3--2---1.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2013-12-21, 23:46:46
.......Funny thing is, he's been cheering the changes being made as if turning the browser into a Facebook app and closing the community was the best thing since sliced bread. Maybe for some people it is, and for the rest of us-- maybe it IS time to leave and not look back.


Well, Mike I honestly feel for those that feel the same as you.

I know you weren't talking about me, but know this, I may make jokes about this or that.....sometimes though it's only outward, whereas inside I'm churning to a boil.

My sarcastic humor is my outlet, a way to 'open the relief valve' so to speak, rather than letting it escalate internally until explosion becomes inevitable.

I don't need any more Myocardial Infarctions.

What I will say is simply this. You enjoy the forums. You wish they could continue. MyOpera has decided...books closed...so the only way to continue enjoying the forums is to go to another forum with hopefully some like minded souls.

This forum ---- DnD ---- has the chance to be where those like minded souls might find some bliss.

That is if, & only if, DnD catches on & gets the type of membership capable in supporting it, & the fellowship that goes with it.

If you come to see it the same, then may I suggest you take a moment & read this (https://thedndsanctuary.eu/index.php?topic=7.msg2596#msg2596).......the few minutes you spend reading & following up as it suggests may make the difference in what will be the future.

In closing Mike....never feel alone.....cuz you most definitely ain't!!! (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/thumbs/good.gif)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Macallan on 2013-12-22, 01:16:36

maybe it IS time to leave and not look back.

I've effectively done that. For the last few months I had little time for anything so I didn't look at my.opera much at all, then a few of us started to look at forum software. I didn't go back ever since.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2013-12-22, 01:39:18
I shudna dun it. I really shudna dun it.

I just casually glanced at the post count. Smiley, this site hasn't been up a month and you already have 1200 posts?? You must live in Franz' basement and do little else but post here.

On the opposite end, my count may well be one of the smallest of the members here from near the beginning, I've been spreading myself a little thin and also I generally only reply to threads that really interest me. So, that accounts for the low counts.

While I'm here at the moment: Smiley, you're right, it wasn't you that got my goat this last time. I don't recall you posting replies to that letter that started us on this track, in fact. It was someone else.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Luxor on 2013-12-22, 11:47:16
The expressed attitude by this character who I will not name

You don't need to, I think most of us can guess who you are on about.  ;) 
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: j7n on 2013-12-22, 14:23:16
ׂ
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2013-12-22, 15:20:54
Parrot guy?
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: j7n on 2013-12-22, 16:57:07
ׂ
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2013-12-22, 19:28:03
Oh, yeah. It might be interesting to search for his 'nym (and previous banned ones, although I forget what they were) in combination with terms like "Chrome" or "Chromium," because I'm pretty sure you'd see him deriding many things about it.

Actually, we can still do that:
http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=9730232
Quote from: Chirpie
Quote from: hoang_royal_ir
Fully support HTML5. At the moment, I just see that only Google Chrome is having the HTML5 full support. :(

Chrome does not have full HTML5 support. Opera's HTML5 support is excellent as well. It doesn't make sense for you to make this request.


http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=9476872
Quote from: Chirpie
Quote from: inrisk
If you can read, I do state 'This is what I see on all my browsers'.

You posted a screenshot of Chrome. In an Opera forum.

Not only is this incredibly rude, but Opera's error messages are generally much more informative than Chrome's.


http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=11790702
Quote from: Chirpie
Quote from: mcaleck
How come Opera is doing so badly in the V8 Benchmark Suite test?

It isn't. The V8 benchmark was designed to make Chrome look good and ignores the things Chrome it slow at. It's useless.


It will be somewhat harder to find those replies stating the exact opposite about Chropera. Anyone up for it? :P
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: krake on 2013-12-22, 21:25:51

Oh, yeah. It might be interesting to search for his 'nym (and previous banned ones, although I forget what they were) ...


Poordie and Poor Richard :)
(or something like that)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: jax on 2013-12-24, 06:32:42
Opera fanbois annoyed me. They never were more than a handful but they always were a handful. Opera fans in general have often been very knowledgeable and resourceful, and more often than not helpful. Fanbois are none of the above.

Users whose entire contribution were either reiterating that Opera was shit or that Opera was the shit, made no contribution at all, only repelled those who could have done so. The first group was handled by the troll clause, but I would have liked there to be a fanboi clause as well. The hope would be that the fanboi would eventually grow up and use their considerable energy for good, but I don't think they ever did, they just passed away to find some other cause to fanboi.

Since the fanbois were the loudest fans, I think they considered themselves and were considered by others the strongest fans, but they didn't consider what we were employed to consider, how could we make Opera better (or in many cases less horrible) than it was. Other fans had many worthwhile (and many, many more worthless) suggestions that were as a rule ignored. The fanbois added insult to injury.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2013-12-31, 15:20:53
Apparently someone started a project to replicate the Opera UI, although I don't know whether they'll actually be replicating those parts I consider most important: http://otter-browser.org/

http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=15069532
Quote from: woj-tek
OK, this will be spammy but hey - forums will be closed soon anyhow and I think it's very relevant / interesting... http://otter-browser.org/ - basically a project aiming to mimic Opera 12.x UI and functions. It's still in early stages (AFAIKR alpha 1 binaries will be released tomorrow), it's based on Qt5 with (currently) WebKit as rendering engine (author mentions Blink in the feature, possibly other?). From the looks of the screenshots it looks promissing - basically what Opera promised - an old Opera 12 UI with webkit/blink engine underneath.


I glanced at the changelog and one feature is making me excited without even having seen it:
Quote
0.1.01 (01.01.2014):
[...]
- implemented tab detaching;

Opera hasn't had proper tab detaching anymore since, what, 9.2? But of course I'll have to try it to know exactly what the author meant.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2014-01-02, 09:01:21
Another thing worth keeping an eye on related to developments with Opera in the broader sense: Vivaldi.net

Set up apparently by the former CEO of Opera ASA, among others, Vivaldi.net has gathered quickly far more popularity than our little haven here. The site has more services. In addition to forums, it also offers email and a blogging platform.

On the other hand, its Debates and Discussions section lacks heart and membership.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-01-02, 09:08:41
It's sloauw..(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FDR8BNZA.png&hash=2a3c1d3dceb720329f84d864152049ee" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/DR8BNZA.png)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2014-01-02, 09:16:31

It's sloauw..(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FDR8BNZA.png&hash=2a3c1d3dceb720329f84d864152049ee" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/DR8BNZA.png)

And I get "Invalid Token" and Bad Request" errors often when trying to log in with Opera 12. Even so I managed to inaugurate my first forum post there today https://vivaldi.net/forum/vintage/8-what-was-your-first-computer?start=40#831 (I hope I copied the correct link identifying the post)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-01-02, 09:57:23
And I get "Invalid Token" and Bad Request" errors often when trying to log in with Opera 12.

Childhood diseases, I imagine.
(I hope I copied the correct link identifying the post)

Not unless you're the Dark Knight.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2014-01-02, 10:17:07
Vivaldi.net
Set up apparently by the former CEO of Opera ASA


Possibly a concept that can be used to attract members here.......I propose selling The DnD Sanctuary utilizing it's strength.....DnD is run by the users, & are free from Corporate conflicts of interest & stupidity, which is what caused OPERA to shed us all in the first place.....The DnD Sanctuary Forums  will never sell the users out -- as OPERA did -- because of selfish & inconsistent corporate interests, simply because DnD is run by it's users, & not some scumbag CEO!!!
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-01-02, 10:44:14
From my perspective, that argument doesn't really work. He stepped down as CEO in 2010, and in 2011, this is how he resigned from Opera completely (according to Wikipedia):

Quote from: Jon
Dear All,

It is with a heavy heart that I send this message. Next week will be my last at Opera. It has become clear that The Board, Management and I do not share the same values and we do not have the same opinions on how to keep evolving Opera. As a result I have come to an agreement with the Board to end my time at Opera. I feel the Board and Management is more quarterly focused than me. I have always worked to build the company for the future. I believe the foundation we have is very solid to build further upon.

I do believe strongly in Opera as a company, and in all of you working here. Our products actually make a difference for a lot of people in the world, and I wish you all the best of luck moving forward. I will be following the company closely and rooting for you all.

Yours truly, Jon.


These differences of opinion with the board seem to point to the difference between the Opera that I liked and the Opera that made an increasing amount of decisions I don't much understand or care for--including the killing of My Opera. I suspect my sentiment might be shared by many (My) Opera users.

Also note that e.g. Hallvord left Opera because he already knew about the decision to kill My Opera (https://vivaldi.net/blogs/entry/farewell-to-my-opera).
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-01-02, 13:18:21
Yeah -- I'm OPENING your link on vivaldi...
Yeah...
Still opening...
:zzz:
:zzz:
:zzz:
...
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2014-01-02, 14:09:39
Josh, what are you using? From your description, I'm guessing you're using a 56K modem and an old browser of unknown descriptions. Vivaldi isn't that slow.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-01-02, 14:15:26
Josh, what are you using? From your description, I'm guessing you're using a 56K modem and an old browser of unknown descriptions. Vivaldi isn't that slow.
It IS slow.
Chrome. But that page didn't take all that time to load till your post(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FZGrDram.png&hash=26e469e92258101392bbc69e8c7e9871" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/ZGrDram.png)
Hallvord
Frans, who's the guy?
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-01-02, 14:29:34
All that's needed is a bottleneck somewhere along the way to Russia. At times I've tried to watch videos from China (mostly when linked by jax), only to find them loading at 30kB/s or less. That never happens when I try to view something from Europe or America.

That being said, Vivaldi actually took something like 6 seconds to load the page I linked a few hours ago, while now it loads within two seconds.

Frans, who's the guy?

A former Opera employee. He now works for Mozilla.

http://www.whatcouldbewrong.com/
http://hallvors.wordpress.com/
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-01-02, 15:17:20
...while now it loads within two seconds.
It's just been cached.
Yo! our whole conversation is being perlustrated by KGB - didn't you know? That's why the delays! (https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FBlLv9nr.png&hash=781a6c4f553cc76e363ebc6e339c0feb" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/BlLv9nr.png)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: j7n on 2014-01-02, 15:22:37
ׂ
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-01-02, 15:33:40
It's just been cached.

No, I mean a fresh load. Back a few hours ago the site gave me something like 30-50kB/s, while now it gives me at least 100kB/s.

SSL negotiation was also shown on the graphs posted by Frenzie earlier.

Graphs? I don't recall doing that? :P

My ping to Vivaldi is ±28ms (±25ms for fransdejonge.com), but responses seem to take longer than that. Of course, the Vivaldi site says its creation time is 200ms, while mine here says it's more like 20-30ms.

The site is faster in Opium.

Slightly; V8 deals somewhat better with the overuse of JS. Most of it still comes down to how long it takes for the data to get to me, which as you said isn't made any faster by SSL.

There's either a bottleneck to the east or Josh is exaggerating, but it's definitely an order of magnitude slower than here.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: j7n on 2014-01-02, 15:42:59
ׂ
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-01-02, 15:53:50
Oh, I thought you meant here. :)

Yeah, the same thing still applies. On this site, we've got something like 10-20kB of content* to 100-300kB of other stuff,** but since most of that is images, it doesn't really slow down page loading. On Vivaldi there is in fact over 300kB of JS and over 100kB of CSS, ergo it does affect rendering time quite a bit--especially when a script is delayed.

* I use the word content somewhat loosely.
** Depends a bit on the amount of people (i.e. avatars), smilies, images...
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2014-01-02, 17:21:01
It's the funniest thing, but--- even though on the surface Vivaldi may seem to have more to offer, I don't feel "safe" about it. The idea that it's being run by Opera folks leaves me wanting to take my probing stick and bang extra hard on the ice before putting my weight on it. I actually feel "safer" here even though I know there isn't as much to support it-- we're on one guy's site and he's having to take space from his blog to make room for the forums-- but it still "feels" safer than Vivaldi does right now.

I know the feeling of space constraint-- having opened a blog on Wordpress.com, I have just over 3 gigabytes available for storage. That's not as much as you might think if you post a lot of photo and video content, it wouldn't take long to run out of room. Of course Wordpress offers you the option of buying more space with their premium package, and it might be worth considering later. Right now, the point is that having a "free" site can really make things tight when you stop to think of how little 2 or 3 gigabytes really is today. (Great Scott-- was it only a decade ago that only a James Bond villain would have any use for 2 gigabytes of space???)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: j7n on 2014-01-02, 17:44:42
ׂ
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2014-01-02, 17:47:12

It's the funniest thing, but--- even though on the surface Vivaldi may seem to have more to offer, I don't feel "safe" about it. The idea that it's being run by Opera folks leaves me wanting to take my probing stick and bang extra hard on the ice before putting my weight on it. I actually feel "safer" here even though I know there isn't as much to support it-- we're on one guy's site and he's having to take space from his blog to make room for the forums-- but it still "feels" safer than Vivaldi does right now.

Even though I don't know exactly what you mean by "safer", I share the sentiment vaguely. Despite the generous offer of email and blogs at Vivaldi.net, the general atmosphere there makes me wary. A quickly increasing number of random people who contribute to chatter and noise, not discussion. The forums seem to lack focus and soul. People may use it to socialise in some isolated clubs or couples, rather than forums and blogs.

The effect that Vivaldi.net is having is mixed. It takes some energy out of Opera ASA's new forums by providing the social tools that Opera ASA is ditching. Maybe they hoped to provide a refugee haven (which I would like), but some of the prominent current employees and fanbois there extinguish this mood, while the bulk membership at Vivaldi.net are just general cosmic (as in Cosmo) static.

Here we have the true refugee atmosphere. There it's another FB, only accidentally and marginally related to Opera, and not really to old Opera. FB and Cosmo are not safe either to the body or to the mind. Honestly, I would not like the user count here to explode too fast. I would not like new users to be recruited from odd places. This place could lose its character. Then again, in order to have any character at all, the core users should be active. Where's Jimbro this year? Vacationing from retirement?
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2014-01-02, 18:23:32

From my perspective, that argument doesn't really work. He stepped down as CEO in 2010, and in 2011, this is how he resigned from Opera completely (according to Wikipedia):

Quote from: Jon
Dear All,

It is with a heavy heart that I send this message. Next week will be my last at Opera. It has become clear that The Board, Management and I do not share the same values and we do not have the same opinions on how to keep evolving Opera. As a result I have come to an agreement with the Board to end my time at Opera. I feel the Board and Management is more quarterly focused than me. I have always worked to build the company for the future. I believe the foundation we have is very solid to build further upon.

I do believe strongly in Opera as a company, and in all of you working here. Our products actually make a difference for a lot of people in the world, and I wish you all the best of luck moving forward. I will be following the company closely and rooting for you all.

Yours truly, Jon.


These differences of opinion with the board seem to point to the difference between the Opera that I liked and the Opera that made an increasing amount of decisions I don't much understand or care for--including the killing of My Opera. I suspect my sentiment might be shared by many (My) Opera users.

Also note that e.g. Hallvord left Opera because he already knew about the decision to kill My Opera (https://vivaldi.net/blogs/entry/farewell-to-my-opera).


I think you missed my point.

I was suggesting that we accentuate the positives ............ That DnD users aren't subject to the same Corporate pitfalls & Corporate abuse in DnD, because DnD is run in the best interests of the Users, by the users, not a CEOish type.

What this particular individual CEO may have or not have done, or how he personally felt has nothing to do with my point(s).

User run
= Good & wholesome.  (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/angel010.gif)

CEOish Corporate run = Bad, Disgusting, & totally prone to Corruption.  (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/satan003.gif)

Capice? (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/hatsoff.gif)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2014-01-02, 18:34:49
All this fuss about speed......as if average user gives a RRA (Royal Rats Ass) on whether a page takes 1.7 seconds to load or 2.9 seconds to load!?

Speed rates way lower on the scale of things potential users will consider when deciding on where they will make their new home........usability & content, along with quality of companionship are the paramount issues average users look for ........ not speed.....(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/cleanteeth09.gif)

Just ask MJM.....he's average. (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/chuckle002.gif)             (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/sprint.gif)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: pizzapops on 2014-01-04, 17:21:19
Superbird (http://superbird-browser.com/), SRWare Iron (http://www.srware.net/en/software_srware_iron.php), Sleipnir 5 (http://www.fenrir-inc.com/us/sleipnir/), Torch Browser (http://www.torchbrowser.com/), Yandex Browser, Comodo Dragon, CoolNovo, Titan Browser, Epic Browser, Chrome

I still think that Opera is going to get lost in the plethora of Chromium/Blink based browsers. They will have to forgo the desktop/laptop/tablet market or settle for a market share much smaller than they had with Opera 12. They have not distinguished the "new" Opera Browser as a superior product in any category. Even with almost 20 years of browser building experience, their development seems slow.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-01-04, 18:24:58
Those first two are more or less Chromium. Sleipnir isn't available on Linux--of course, neither is Chropera--but a lot more interesting in principle. However, it's definitely true that there's already an awful lot of Chromium clones out there.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-01-04, 18:30:23
"A lot of" is a plural animal - with countable nouns, I mean.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-01-04, 18:34:54
In more formal language, sure. But if I were writing more formally I'd also use "many" or something more precise instead of "a lot."
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-01-04, 18:39:54
 Instead of "a what?"?
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-01-04, 18:43:28
Alot (http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.be/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html).
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-01-04, 22:12:41
Punk.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Sanguinemoon on 2014-01-05, 03:27:31
However, it's definitely true that there's already an awful lot of Chromium clones out there.

Hrmmm, I think your grammar might be off ;)

Try " It's definitely true that there's already a lot  of  awful Chromium clones out there."
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-01-05, 08:25:54
Sure, I'll accept that one :P
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: krake on 2014-01-11, 10:37:22
Quote from: Daniel Aleksandersen
Why you would ever do an offline installation of a web browser is beyond me

Priceless    :-X

And it would be funny as well if Daniel Aleksandersen wouldn't be Mac product Test Lead in the Desktop Team at Opera's headquarters in Oslo.

BTW, finally Opera Blink has introduced another important feature that everybody forgot to ask for. The online installer.
It's aimed for the user base of the Third World, people with modern computers but lousy internet connectivity  ???
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: j7n on 2014-01-11, 11:32:41
ׂ
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: jax on 2014-01-11, 11:49:07
All, well most, browser makers have periods where they realise that offline is important. It never lasts long. Developers tend to live in a bubble where they are never offline, and offline functionality and other functionality they don't use like e.g. printing are simply esoteric. Being offline is thus so 1995.

As I said, at least Opera and Firefox, even IE, has had offline as a priority from time to time (Google is abysmal at offline, one reason why using an Android phone can be so frustrating), but the drive has never been sustained.

Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-01-11, 12:44:27

Quote from: Daniel Aleksandersen
Why you would ever do an offline installation of a web browser is beyond me

Priceless    :-X

I initially downvoted this comment (http://blogs.opera.com/desktop/2014/01/netinstaller-developer-20-0-1376-0/#comment-1193625538) because I misinterpreted it--quotation marks are important that way.

Gee, sometimes I download stuff while I have an Internet connection so I can work with it later when I have no or a spotty Internet connection. Sometimes I look at HTML files *gasp* on my own computer!

Why you would ever want to do an online installation of any software is beyond me.*

* Not actually true. I quite like the Debian netinstall.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2014-01-11, 23:19:46
Why you would ever want to do an online installation of any software is beyond me.


Or allow the software to automatically, behind the scenes, do it for you. (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/suicide4.gif)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-01-12, 07:47:29
That quote was not of his.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: j7n on 2014-01-12, 08:00:21
ׂ
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-01-12, 08:21:00
And why would anyone ever want to use an older version?
Older than crap?
I'm holding on the 11.63 just now. When I need some "up-to-date", I have my Chrome.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-01-12, 08:49:24
j7n was being sarcastic.

What makes remarks like this harmful is not that they're offering the option of an online installer--although I'd rather they finally make bookmarks at least superior to IE3 instead of making some stupid online installer no one wants--but the disdain displayed toward the classic installer is worrisome.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: j7n on 2014-01-12, 11:30:16
ׂ
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-01-12, 11:38:12
By using and older version one effectively locks themselves out of support forums maintained by the author...
Now what? I can find other people than the author. (Have you ever met our Dear Boss, for example?;))
I heard that in russia...
What's russia?
:P
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2014-01-12, 13:45:58

j7n was being sarcastic.

What makes remarks like this harmful is not that they're offering the option of an online installer--although I'd rather they finally make bookmarks at least superior to IE3 instead of making some stupid online installer no one wants--but the disdain displayed toward the classic installer is worrisome.


Right now, that disdain is classic Opera ASA. They've thrown out the old browser, are in the process of tossing the community out, and now we're surprised that they have disdain for the classic installer?

Special note: I've reached the point where I will be tossing the last of Opera out. Can't be helped, it seems the point has been reached where it's useless to fret over it anymore. I can't download 12.16 onto this machine, the new and improved version doesn't come up to Chrome standards and that's saying something, and the decision to run us out of town on March 1 lurks. So, when I clear this browser's memory-- I'm using Firefox-- the last of Opera will be gone with it. It's way past time to figure out what's next and devote energy to that. I will put time into this site, Vivaldi, my blog on Wordpress and I will possibly be closing out my account at 2liv3 because that place is nearly dead. Truth to tell, I'm not sure that I'll put much effort into my Vivaldi "holdings" because it seems to be headed-- it doesn't have any idea where it's headed.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-01-12, 14:27:14
[WHISPER=Everybody]Michael seems to have been throwing poops and shits all over the place! ;D[/WHISPER];)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: krake on 2014-01-12, 18:33:03

Why you would ever want to do an online installation of any software is beyond me.*

* Not actually true. I quite like the Debian netinstall.


* I'm sure you would fall in love with Chropera's 'netinst' as it is for now ;)
The funny part of Opera's new revolutionary online installer is that for now it installs the full installer (same size) which is hidden in some temp directory before it gets executed. So the main (so far only?) difference is that it is hidden from the prying eyes of the average user :D
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Sanguinemoon on 2014-01-12, 20:07:59
Quote from: opera
Why you would ever do an offline installation of a web browser is beyond me, but there is always that one case where it is needed.
Why unprofessional comments that show disdain for users' choice would appear on an official blog is beyond me, but it's the case and is not needed.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-01-12, 20:26:21
The funny part of Opera's new revolutionary online installer is that for now it installs the full installer (same size) which is hidden in some temp directory before it gets executed. So the main (so far only?) difference is that it is hidden from the prying eyes of the average user

Well yeah, how else could it work anyway. I fail to see how it's supposed to be easier to locate some "installer" you downloaded earlier than to just go to freaking opera.com. Do they think I'll pass the online installer around on floppy disks like we used to do in the '90s to a lesser extent in the early '00s, or that I'll e-mail it to my friends? It just makes no sense to me. The only thing I'd conceivably carry around on a USB stick is the full installer.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: j7n on 2014-01-12, 22:07:42
ׂ
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-01-12, 23:01:51
Yup. Basically the only use case where it makes sense would be seen as too complicated.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: jax on 2014-01-13, 01:44:53
Right now, that disdain is classic Opera ASA.
.
You may be more right than you know, this is classic Opera, or classic any browsing or software company for that matter. A software company has to assume that it knows what it is doing (and of course know what it is doing). If it does, it has a chance for success. If it doesn't failure is certain. A software company that isn't in this sense arrogant has no right to existence. Arrogance shouldn't be not listening to the users, but to what users do, not what they say. You must have noticed that all browsers have become simpler, that is because the user interface and user experience people are in the ascendancy.

There have always been quarrels about installers, the one piece of software that actually does no browsing and has no functional role. The Mac people, the Windows people, the Linux people generally preferred to do it the OS way, the default way. There have been a huge number of bugs and issues on installers thoughout history, having more than one means more complexity, more time, more testing, and still more bugs.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2014-01-13, 04:17:12
I won't accept/allow any "automatic" updating, downloading, or installing on my computer(s). I have been quite successful in keeping my software from doing "automatic" stuff like that. As far as browsers, &/or other software that utilize online installers, I will always find the full blown download the full version somewhere first...then offline install so no 'tet-to-tet' with the mother ship can take place, mainly for security purposes. If unavailable anywhere on the planet, I'll do without......period.

Anyone that thinks that software companies, & other browser mothers, should be allowed to use online installers as a legitimate way to upgrade or update can go suck wind out of Mahammud's dead Camel's ass! (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/BigGrin02.gif)

Put that in yer book! (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/chuckle002.gif)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: jax on 2014-01-13, 05:30:30
If you don't trust the software company, it doesn't matter the number of steps is one, two, or more.  In either one they can install what they please. Software like browsers are going to be online a lot anyway, they will grab what they need.  If you don't trust the software company a better approach is to do network analysis to see what downloads and uploads are done, and when.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2014-01-13, 06:27:17

That is how most online installers work indeed. They could potentially only grab the packages/components that the user had selected. Then the network installer would have a reason to exist. But I haven't seen any such product yet. I'm sure they exist.
Old Mozilla had such an installer, and its descendant Seamonkey had it at version 1. You could download the net installer, launch it and select the components you wanted to install. It's an internet suit, you could refuse the mail and irc components, debugger. IIRC, the HTML composer and browser were required. The same options also came up with the full installer, so the net installer was specifically for those who were very particular about their downloads.

Chropera's installer is a virus, nothing else. Good that Linux doesn't allow viruses.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: krake on 2014-01-13, 07:38:57

If you don't trust the software company a better approach is to do network analysis to see what downloads and uploads are done, and when.

Another approach for the case you don't trust the company (anymore) is to simply dump their product.*

* If I would be consequent, I wouldn't use the internet at all :)
I don't see any reason to trust Microsoft or Intel (to name just two market leaders), nevertheless I use their products.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: krake on 2014-01-13, 08:00:46

Chropera's installer is a virus, nothing else. Good that Linux doesn't allow viruses.


Is it? Or are you exaggerating now? :)
Either way, I'm not interested in Chropera ;)

Still wonder for the case it had been a Linux package, if you would have installed it and tested that 'virus' :)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2014-01-13, 08:35:59


Chropera's installer is a virus, nothing else. Good that Linux doesn't allow viruses.


Is it? Or are you exaggerating now? :)
Either way, I'm not interested in Chropera ;)

Still wonder for the case it had been a Linux package, if you would have installed it and tested that 'virus' :)
Are there any net installers on Linux? Well, there are - system-wide with full configuration options. Unless you qualify the the packaging tools or the whole opsys as a virus, there are no viruses on Linux.

I'm not interested in Chromium in any shape. Chromium by itself doesn't qualify as a virus, but a beacon meant to call home to check its version is suspicious. A program to pull in some other program without user control is a trojan, even though it's served as a great service to users. In fact, this is how all trojans and viruses are served.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-01-13, 15:50:10
Are there any net installers on Linux?

I think your typical sudo apt-get install flash counts as one. Normally that downloads the program, but for Flash it downloads a script that downloads the real thing. There are a few more things like that around.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Belfrager on 2014-01-14, 13:59:22
I don't know if this is the right place to post my question but since it's about Opera...

I had to move to an older computer that still has Opera 11.6 installed. Each time I open Opera, a dialog box opens asking if I want to update (to Opera 18). No, I don't.
I'm not remembering where do I change settings so I don't get the message every time. I don't see any option for that at Preferences.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: j7n on 2014-01-14, 14:12:31
ׂ
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Belfrager on 2014-01-14, 15:10:02
Preferences -> Advanced -> Security -> Do not check for updates

Solved, thanks j7n :)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2014-01-16, 09:44:16
The thing with Chropera's net installer is that it's a device to facilitate downloading a stillborn product. Is the net installer really making anything better about the product itself? This is the first point against it.

The second point against it that it's dowsn't fulfil its stated purpose. The alleged purpose is this: "Opera, being popular in developing and low-bandwidth markets, have seen frequent failed installations due to network and other problems." How is this supposed to help against network problems or low bandwdith? Only a solid download manager of the full installer would help. The Opera net installer is just a downloader for one single program. Worthless.

Also: "The new installer will retry downloads if there are problems, ensure the latest version is always the one installed, and enhance security of the installation process." So, it is yet another update-enforcer, adding to net activity, calling home whenever possible, etc? Not just worthless, but outright dangerous.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2014-01-16, 21:01:14
Also: "The new installer will retry downloads if there are problems, ensure the latest version is always the one installed, and enhance security of the installation process." So, it is yet another update-enforcer, adding to net activity, calling home whenever possible, etc? Not just worthless, but outright dangerous.


(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FhuWSrhp.png&hash=c4ecf66400a71dd71883016307af2d88" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/huWSrhp.png)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: j7n on 2014-01-17, 12:21:01
I'm sorry. Carry on.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: jax on 2014-01-17, 13:30:25
Intentionally divided? By whose intention?
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: pizzapops on 2014-01-21, 14:21:01
Is Opera Mediaworks (http://operamediaworks.com/) the reason that Opera has moved the browser to a lower priority?
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2014-01-21, 15:29:27
Among one of the reasons, certainly. Change of business interests. Important reason.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2014-01-22, 09:25:27
Is Opera Mediaworks (http://operamediaworks.com/) the reason that Opera has moved the browser to a lower priority?


Among one of the reasons, certainly. Change of business interests. Important reason.


A Total Sellout.....Greed, plain old Unadulterated Corporate  (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/koolaid.gif) Greed!
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: jax on 2014-01-22, 15:29:37
Is Opera Mediaworks the reason that Opera has moved the browser to a lower priority?

Surely it is more shiny. It has been fairly successful, the browser much less so.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-01-31, 21:32:44
Opera 19 comes with promises (http://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/es6/promises/) (more (https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Reference/Global_Objects/Promise)). That's pretty neat.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Belfrager on 2014-02-06, 20:24:05
Well, my question is not exactly about what's happening with Opera but about what happened.

Where do I get older versions, Opera 12 for example, to install? I needed it because computers crashes definitively and I want to use what I had not what they offer now.
Thank you.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: string on 2014-02-06, 20:37:07
Try here
www.opera.com/download/guide/?ver=12.16

Cheers
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Belfrager on 2014-02-06, 21:09:01
Obrigado. :)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2014-02-06, 21:50:29
If you want a portable version (either for USB or for a local file folder) try here   Opera 12.16 Portable (http://portableapps.com/apps/internet/opera_portable)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: krake on 2014-02-06, 22:36:59
Or from here: ftp://ftp.opera.com/pub/opera/win/
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: krake on 2014-02-06, 22:41:17

If you want a portable version (either for USB or for a local file folder) try here   Opera 12.16 Portable (http://portableapps.com/apps/internet/opera_portable)


Except an extra loader, what is the difference between the portable from PortableApps and the native installer (with the USB option checked)?
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2014-02-06, 23:39:35
Except an extra loader, what is the difference between the portable from PortableApps and the native installer (with the USB option checked)?
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/index.php?action=reporttm;topic=13.240;msg=8145)


Why not install it, & see it first-hand for yourself. (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/cheerskj4.gif)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-02-07, 07:25:49

Or from here: ftp://ftp.opera.com/pub/opera/win/

You have a greater selection here: http://arc.opera.com/pub/opera/
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: krake on 2014-02-07, 09:22:57


Or from here: ftp://ftp.opera.com/pub/opera/win/

You have a greater selection here: http://arc.opera.com/pub/opera/


Do you? :)

ftp://ftp.opera.com/pub/opera/ <=> ftp://ftp.opera.com/pub/opera/win/
That should be something trivial (at least for you ;) ).
However I gave the second link exactly for the reason to not confuse our Portuguese friend. I bet he is on Windows anyway ;)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: krake on 2014-02-07, 09:25:07

Why not install it, & see it first-hand for yourself. (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/cheerskj4.gif)


I did once, hence my question :)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Belfrager on 2014-02-07, 09:36:05
However I gave the second link exactly for the reason to not confuse our Portuguese friend. I bet he is on Windows anyway

I inform you, Suevian friend, that I'm right in the process of invading Linux land.
My entrance will be memorable and my dominance over the poor linuxers ruthless. :)

Already posting with Opera 12.16 again, thank you.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: krake on 2014-02-07, 10:15:32

My entrance will be memorable and my dominance over the poor linuxers ruthless. :)


You mean linuxistas? :D

Keep in mind Bel, there are also people migrating from Linux to Windows :)
The Review (http://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=review-winxp)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-02-07, 10:22:27
Do you?  :)

ftp://ftp.opera.com/pub/opera/ (http://ftp://ftp.opera.com/pub/opera/) <=> ftp://ftp.opera.com/pub/opera/win/ (http://ftp://ftp.opera.com/pub/opera/win/)
That should be something trivial (at least for you  ;)  ).

Mais oui! You missed the arc for archive. :D

However, I should've probably linked to http://arc.opera.com/pub/opera/win/
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Barulheira on 2014-02-07, 10:34:08
linuxistas?

Linuxeiros... (Whatever word you choose, they all sound terribly!)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: jax on 2014-02-07, 11:33:38
Linucks?
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-02-07, 17:32:33
Opera is making their old tests publicly available:

https://github.com/operasoftware/presto-testo

I think it'd be interesting to see how Blink fares. *whistles*
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-02-08, 10:24:05
Oops, snark (http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=15135712).
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Sanguinemoon on 2014-02-08, 16:43:55
Is he on crack?
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: jax on 2014-02-08, 17:54:13
Ah, Christian Dysthe posted.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-02-14, 18:45:10
Opera is always ahead of the game (http://w3cmemes.tumblr.com/post/62942106027/if-you-can-think-of-it-its-99-9-likely-opera). :P
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-02-17, 09:35:17
Did Opera (12) start automatically updating your saved login settings or something? I just found that using wand after changing a certain setting as a one-time thing it did it again.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2014-02-17, 09:54:12
What did automatically change? I use Wand this way:
I saved the login for this website and every time I need to log in, I press Ctrl+Enter. And it logs me in. On some websites I have to refresh. On some websites I somehow have to select from multiple credentials in a dialogue box. This has been the same for years, no change.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-02-17, 13:32:08
There's this login box like

Dropdown: 1 or 2
User
Pass

Normally I log in with option 1, but for a change I logged in manually with option 2. And when I used Ctrl+Enter just yet, it automatically went with option 2. Eh, whatever. I decided to delete all login info for the site.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2014-02-18, 15:46:35
Funny thing is, he's been cheering the changes being made as if turning the browser into a Facebook app and closing the community was the best thing since sliced bread.

Not in my book, but you've given me an idea. A Facebook thread!
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: j7n on 2014-02-18, 19:38:44
ׂ
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2014-02-18, 20:22:31
Is the site partially taken down already?


And the probability surprises you?  They wear insensitivity like a badge of honor.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-02-22, 15:50:16
Breaking! Opera implemented show full addressbar (http://blogs.opera.com/desktop/2014/02/opera-21-today/).

http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=15157482
Quote from: Saskatchewan
The option to show full URL in address field is now available in Opera Developer 21.

Quote from: Frenzie
It's still hard-coded gray. :down:
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: krake on 2014-02-23, 09:24:49
Native bookmarks manager will not come back any time soon.

Originally posted by BK:
Quote
For the time being we are not working on further improving bookmarks. There are things with higher priority, ie. synchronization, better tabs handling, and many many others. Penguin fans also wait to be satisfied.

source (http://blogs.opera.com/desktop/2014/02/opera-21-today/#comment-1256495634)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: krake on 2014-02-23, 09:26:41
Quote
Opera v19 uses Google's DNS servers, to help Google invade your privacy

source (http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=15160702)


Does anybody of you use Chropera so he/she can verify this?
I can't be bothered to install this crap only to verify but it would be interesing to know nonetheless.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-02-23, 10:11:18
No.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-02-23, 12:48:02
Does anybody of you use Chropera so he/she can verify this?
I can't be bothered to install this crap only to verify but it would be interesing to know nonetheless.

Does Wireshark work on Windows?
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Macallan on 2014-02-23, 13:21:36
tcpdump is your friend :right:
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: j7n on 2014-02-23, 14:21:12
ׂ
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-02-23, 14:29:08
Cheers. Saves me the trouble of messing about with the VM.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-02-23, 15:10:21
http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=15155952
Quote from: StevenCee
Quote from: Pesala
Quote from: BizRodian
I know a lot of people say that bookmarks will return,
A lot of people also explained that they have never left, and are already available in Opera 19, but it seems that people are not listening. Just enable the Bookmarks Bar for Opera 19 in settings. If you installed Opera 19 on a machine with Opera 12.16 or earlier you can import your bookmarks to the Bookmarks Bar using the "Bookmarks Importer."


Now that's an interesting comment, both a lie, and self-contradictory, at the very same time....  You yourself have stated many times, they left, and don't count on them returning, since Opera's "survey" showed 90% of users don't even use bookmarks.  And, if "they have never left", then how are they "already available in Opera 19"?  As that would imply they in fact, did leave, and now they are "already" back.... Sorry, but people ARE listening, and are hip to your misstatements, contradictory, and often insulting comments, and we're really tired of them.

PS   I just updated to 19, to see, if in fact, the bookmarks you said "never left" are indeed "already" back, but I can't seem to get Opera to fully open!  It's been 15 minutes, as it's trying to open my previously opened windows, and to make it easier, I've tried closing several of them, yet no matter whether I click on the window or tab closing button, they just remain, spinning around, as I patiently await their eventual (hopefully) opening.  I can tell already, this upgrade will be as wonderful as the last few have been..... :zzz:
Well, it did finally open, and lo & behold, there are bookmarks again! If I were Opera, I'd make some sort of announcement, as I may not have kept trying every new update. I guess they decided to buck their own surveys, if in fact, what we were told here was even factual... maybe instead of believing 90% of their users don't use bookmarks, they instead were listening to all those "whiners & complainers" here in the forum.....


Quote from: Pesala
Quote from: StevenCee
Now that's an interesting comment, both a lie, and self-contradictory, at the very same time.
Well, it's your kamma Mr Coe. Accusing me of lying is libel. Have a nice day.


Quote from: Pesala
The fact is that even in Opera 15 one could bookmark pages in the speed dial or stash, or install an extension (https://addons.opera.com/en/extensions/details/bookmarks-manager/?display=en), but people complained that they wanted a bookmarks menu. In response to user feedback, the devs promised on July 10th (http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/2013/07/10/ctrl-z-of-ctrl-d) that they would implement bookmark functionality as a top priority. This they did in the very next final release -- Opera 16, by implementing the Quick Access Bar, but as it was still experimental it had to be enabled in opera:flags.


:right: :left: :right:
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: j7n on 2014-02-23, 15:49:47
ׂ
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-02-23, 18:38:30
Perhaps cross-posting this (http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=15161332) will amuse some of you.

Quote from: Frenzie
Soft Cheese
A play for two actors.

Act 1
A rustic village in Normandy. Candide, a recent émigré from the big city, has become quite fond of the rural lifestyle.

Candide enters the local cheese shop. Gaute, the store owner, looks up at the sound of the bell.

Gaute: Good morning, Candide! It's so nice to welcome you again to my humble realm.

Candide: I inspected my garden this morning and some wonderful champignons matured nicely. Last week I ate mushrooms with Vieuxchatêl as per your suggestion, but I'm looking for a different type of local soft cheese today. Do you have any recommendations?

Gaute: Certainly, a new cheesemaker opened up shop in this area recently! They call it La Vache Qui Pleure. Would you like to sample some?

Candide: No thanks Gaute, that's alright. Your judgment in these matters has been absolutely impeccable in these past few months, and whatever you recommend is always a culinary delight.

Gaute: Very well! That'll be €3 please.

Candide: Here you are. Thank you so much!

Candide exits the store.

Act 2
The next morning, an angry Candide rushes into the store. The bell jingles violently.

Candide: Why didn't you tell me this was processed cheese?! Why did you lie to me?

Gaute: Lied? But monsieur Candide, this is locally produced soft cheese, just like you asked for.

Candide: I don't care if it's technically soft and produced locally. You knew very well I wanted a real local cheese and you gave me this mass-produced junk.

Gaute: But the product I sold you already had artificial penicillium camemberti flavor added to it!

Candide: Artificial fungus flavor? Are you insane? You lied to me.

Gaute: You will quit making these libelous remarks! And besides, the cheese was never truly without fungus. You could have sprinkled some fungus on it yourself and it might've taken to the cheese.

Candide: You're insane. This is no proper cheese.

Gaute: Sir, I will take you to court for libel and slander.

Candide: Do your worst. The truth is plain for all to see.

Act 3
A courtroom. Candide is down on his knees in front of a judge in court dress with his eyes toward the ground.

Judge: Are you Candide, the man who libeled against Gaute the cheese store owner?

Candide: I am Candide, but I did not libel against Gaute. He promised me a local soft cheese and he gave me mass-produced processed cheese.

Judge: But it was a local product. Your libelous lies make a mockery of this court.

Candide finally looks up at the judge. His face changes into a shocked expression of understanding.

Candide: You!

Gaute: In a small rural village such as this, I have to take on the role of judge, jury, and sometimes executioner.

Candide: This is a travesty of justice!

Gaute: The accused shall not yell in court.

Candide: You did not sell me proper cheese!

Gaute: The defendant is found guilty of libel. Gaute did sell cheese.

Candide: But proper cheese does not contain emulsifiers! It has the right fungus growing on the outside! It does not stay good for weeks while unrefrigerated!

Gaute: The defendant is also found guilty of trolling.

Candide: You cannot be serious. Until this very week you never sold me cheese with such artificial properties and additives. You sold me real cheese.

Gaute: The court finds itself obliged to forgive you for your ignorance of what is technically allowed to qualify as cheese. But by insisting on your own definition of this so-called proper cheese, you have proved yourself guilty of conceitedness. Bailiff, this man shall hang for the crime of being full of himself. Prepare the gallows.

Fade to black.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-02-23, 21:17:58
Reminiscing on Opera past, here is something that hasn't changed much over the past decade, nor with the change to Blink:

1. June 2003, 11:24:40 (http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=162048)
Quote from: Frenzie
On print options I can disable to print headers and footers, but is there a way to print the page number only? Or the url only? Or the page number on foot? Well, basically, to print it exactly as I like it? Not just something coming near it...

Edit: yes, I can of course copy text to Word to make it exactly as I like it, but I can imagine there could be some kind of ini file where you're able to fine-tune it...

Edit 2: I found the following

[Printer]
Scale=100
Left Margin=150
Right Margin=150
Top Margin=250
Bottom Margin=150
Print Background=0
Show Printer Header=1

but Printer Header=0 disabled everything (headers and footers)... so I guess it's not possible?


Quote from: White Lynx
Quote
so I guess it's not possible?

Unfortunately it's not possible.
I think Opera has to improve print preview interface,
it is too plain, but I don't know when they are planning to do this.
Unfortunately in CSS 2 there is no mechanism to control page numbering
(it's part of CSS 3), so through user style sheet this also can't be done.


Quote from: Frenzie
Darn, well, it's a pity that even notepad offers more customisation in this area...


If you want to utilize these CSS3 features today, have a look at Prince (http://www.princexml.com/).
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: jax on 2014-02-23, 21:33:00
Real browser developers don't print...
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: j7n on 2014-02-24, 04:26:29
ׂ
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: krake on 2014-02-24, 11:25:21

I connected a freshly installed Windows XP laptop with Opium 19 to my Mikrotik router...


Thanks for looking into it.

Jugimaster's claim was weird to say the least. In order to use specific DNS-servers, the client would have to alter system settings. That's something only malware does. I couldn't imagine that any software maker might do such a thing. In the end I even managed to bear down  my aversion toward Chropera and tested myself with my custom DNS-servers. However the results were clean as yours :)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-02-24, 11:32:20

Real browser developers don't print...

I'm not a browser developer.  ;D

Jugimaster's claim was weird to say the least. In order to use specific DNS-servers, the client would have to alter system settings. That's something only malware does.

Neither host nor dig nor nslookup (http://blog.smalleycreative.com/linux/nslookup-is-dead-long-live-dig-and-host/) (deprecated) alter any system settings. Ignoring system settings, on the other hand... Chrome does plenty of it.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: krake on 2014-02-24, 12:22:39

Jugimaster's claim was weird to say the least. In order to use specific DNS-servers, the client would have to alter system settings.

Neither host nor dig nor nslookup (http://blog.smalleycreative.com/linux/nslookup-is-dead-long-live-dig-and-host/) (deprecated) alter any system settings. Ignoring system settings, on the other hand... Chrome does plenty of it.

Ok :)

Not altering but circumventing/ignoring system/user settings. A matter of semantics? :)

BTW, I never used Chromium or a Chromium based browser except for testing Chropera  twice (once for 10 min and today for 5 min).
Could you make a list of user/sytem settings ignored by Chrome?
Not that I'm interested in Chrome but nice to know about nevertheless  :P
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-02-24, 12:34:47
BTW, I never used Chromium or a Chromium based browser except for testing Chropera  twice (once for 10 min and today for 5 min).
Could you make a list of user/sytem settings ignored by Chrome?
Not that I'm interested in Chrome but nice to know about nevertheless

Eh, I was referring mostly to the exceedingly obvious. It has weird round tabs instead of ones that integrate with the system theme, for instance. Now if I ran a theme with weird round tabs... The menu is activated through a button on the right, which to my knowledge is the system style only in Gnome (Shell). Not on Windows, not on Mac OS, not on any other Linux desktop. Opera's top-left menu button actually conforms to some of Microsoft's own Windows applications, although I'm pretty sure Microsoft is breaking its own interface guidelines.

Less obviously, there's the update mechanism. Instead of using the Windows Task Scheduler to check for updates once a day or so, it insists on running its own stupid background updater service all the time. You can set it up properly yourself so it's not wasting memory or checking for updates every hour (or however often it apparently thinks it should check for updates), but you shouldn't have to. I believe Opera integrated the updating process into the browser itself, making it thus superior to Chrome.

Chrome's print dialog was wholly non-standard on Windows when last I checked, but on Linux it's currently native. Actually the whole program is slightly more native on Linux. For instance, you can "use system title bar and borders".
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: jax on 2014-02-24, 14:13:13
I'm not a browser developer. 


No, but thus they don't eat their own printed dog food either. I used to share printer with the developers, a printer I used intensely, the devs not at all unless some of them were testing print. If I had a printing problem I would file a bug.

Unless some devs were in testing mode they were not printing, and had no printing problems, and filed no bug. If someone filed a bug someone would handle that eventually, probably. Phones don't print much. In upshot, while a couple of time in its history Opera was known for good print handling, much of the time they were letting it slide.

And that was the case with devs at the competing browsers as well. They didn't print. In principle that should be a win for the open source printers, but in practice they all had their shares of bugs, some quite catastrophal. At a project long after I left Opera, where precision printing actually was important, after some testing around, I used one version of Firefox for that particular printer and was very careful not to upgrade or change the environment.

Until somebody makes a CSS Print acid test suite, and it matters among the remaining browser vendors, I don't think we will have reliable and consistent printing anywhere.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-02-24, 15:02:18
At a project long after I left Opera, where precision printing actually was important, after some testing around, I used one version of Firefox for that particular printer and was very careful not to upgrade or change the environment.

I typically print with Firefox or Prince. You can do some really, really neat things with Prince.

A few years back I checked how much work it would take to change a HTML file from Project Gutenberg into a physical book. As it turns out, no more than about half an hour--less now that I've laid the groundwork and Prince has better JS support.

<a href="http://fransdejonge.com/test/2012/lidewyde/lidewyde.html">HTML[/url] (straight from Gutenberg with only some minor CSS tweaks for nice Prince output -- you can see how simpe it all is)

<a href="http://fransdejonge.com/test/2012/lidewyde/lidewyde-lulu.pdf">PDF[/url] (margins are kind of awful because more pages cost more money, hehe. Easy-peasy to play around with, of course)

(Copied from my own comment here (http://softsolder.com/2013/02/08/fixing-libreoffice-document-graphic-file-paths/#comment-19055).)

The Knuth (LaTeX) line breaking algorithm would've definitely improved matters, although I'm not sure how well the modern Dutch rules would do on the 19th century prose. I never did order the book from Lulu; in the end I read it all from the screen.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: j7n on 2014-02-24, 15:37:23
ׂ
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-02-24, 15:45:11
According to Sagrid, the Google DNS might be contacted when using the Turbo/Off-Road mode. If that's the case, the user has chosen to use a proxy in an unclear, dynamic location.

Frankly that still doesn't sound very plausible, except perhaps just once to determine the IP address associated with (operaX-turbo.)opera-mini.net
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: j7n on 2014-02-25, 04:20:38
ׂ
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2014-02-25, 06:55:25

The time has come. Opera forums are now turning read-only. They could just leave them as an archive for at least a couple of years. Unless they are ashamed of the past.

Right, I logged in and found this message "The My Opera forums are being replaced by our new forums. Starting February 26th, the My Opera forums will be in read-only mode. On March 3rd, they will be removed along with the rest of My Opera."

I will be sitting in Opera IRC to see it shut down too, first hand. It's the final countdown. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jK-NcRmVcw)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: jax on 2014-02-25, 07:57:30
By Norwegian privacy laws they cannot. All copies and all data must be deleted shortly after closure, not even an anonymised copy for future historians/researchers.

There was a big huff about it, when Nettby (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nettby), a huge community in Norway, where about 1 out of 6 Norwegians were a member (me not). All gone now. The Wayback Machine has some, but it is not located in Norway.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: j7n on 2014-02-25, 20:42:33
ׂ
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-02-26, 10:30:28
It's from here (http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=4943181):
Quote from: opera.com
Join the Opera Space Browser testing program! (http://www.opera.com/portal/inspace)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-02-26, 10:59:33
I'm surprised it's still online. They've removed Jon's attempt to swim across the Atlantic.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: jax on 2014-02-26, 11:03:34
It's the final countdown.
Yes, go Europe and Sweden... There is also a nachspiel (http://my.opera.com/jax/blog/2014/02/25/the-d-d-nachspiel)...

It's one of those times when I feel that the Internet has way too much Law in it nowadays. What difference does it make when a site is "closed" versus "open". I can't exactly go to My Opera and ask to remove parts of it that I deem to have become intrusive to my privacy. The staff would have a hard time servicing such requests.


I generally like Norwegian privacy laws, they give the citizens reasonable power over their privacy and limit companies/others ability to intrude or collect data on them. Some decisions, more than the laws themselves, make less sense though, like this.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-02-26, 11:06:43
'Swim' in what sense????
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: jax on 2014-02-26, 11:13:08
They've removed Jon's attempt to swim across the Atlantic.


Now that you mention it, you're right. Another case of culture, history, and sports being lost in time on the Internet. Now we only have the secondary sources (http://www.zdnet.com/opera-boss-starts-atlantic-swim-3039196290/), and possibly an archive.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Belfrager on 2014-02-26, 11:32:48
Does opera mail also finishes today?
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: jax on 2014-02-26, 11:59:45
No, that should expire with the rest of My Opera on Monday. Just checked, it seems fine.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-02-26, 12:05:38
This board is about browsers - not communities.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2014-02-26, 16:48:17

This board is about browsers - not communities.


Does that distinction really matter? Fort so many of us, when they dumped Presto in favor of Blink the browser took a dive. Then, the decision to dump the community sealed the deal. In this case, browser and community are nearly one and the same.

Note: I've just had a go at checking the new forums. Still not ready for prime time, buggy as a house full of termites. I couldn't stay long before it went dead and tried to 86 my browser

Josh, before you ask: 86 is Trucker lingo for trashing your system. It's part of the CB-Radio 10-code, in this case 10-86.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-02-26, 16:56:12
Note: I've just had a go at checking the new forums. Still not ready for prime time, buggy as a house full of termites. I couldn't stay long before it went dead and tried to 86 my browser
https://thedndsanctuary.eu/index.php?topic=204.0
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Belfrager on 2014-02-26, 19:53:10

This board is about browsers - not communities.

If you had any idea about what Opera browser is, or was supposed to be, you wouldn't open your mouth for saying such imbecilities.
Opera mail was part of opera browser, cappice palerma?
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-02-26, 19:58:11
cappice palerma?
Bambarbiya Kiragudu!
8)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Sanguinemoon on 2014-02-27, 02:21:09
Josh, before you ask: 86 is Trucker lingo for trashing your system. It's part of the CB-Radio 10-code, in this case 10-86.

I'll help! It's like Deep Sixing!  8)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2014-02-27, 04:51:05


This board is about browsers - not communities.

If you had any idea about what Opera browser is, or was supposed to be, you wouldn't open your mouth for saying such imbecilities.
Opera mail was part of opera browser, cappice palerma?


Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: j7n on 2014-02-27, 05:44:36
ׂ
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-02-27, 06:44:31
Did you mean this (https://thedndsanctuary.eu/index.php?topic=204.msg9982#msg9982)?
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: j7n on 2014-02-27, 12:54:15
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Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: krake on 2014-02-27, 14:26:39
Wonder how do they make money with Gravatars. Sharing email adresses with advertisers or whomsoever?
However, a nice way to track users :)
Title: Itching an ear with Opera
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-02-27, 14:31:28
I'm not ready to start a thread on it -- I've got a "glitch" with my 11.63 "notsorussian edition". Downloading stream files from this site/page (http://www.listenlive.eu/uk.html) in Chrome doesn't make any difficulties: the files get runnable and their properties are fully adjustable. But, having tried "the same procedure" in Opera, I got files (the icons looking ok) whose properties are cut and unusable and which themselves seemed not running at all (I tried choosing other applications during the dowloading process, but that seems not to affect anything in question).
NB. In Google, clicking opens a WMP in browser, then I CtrS it and save it. In Opera - it works as you could already get how it works. I didn't try "open with" or "open" instead of "save" though...
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-02-27, 14:32:57
Important addition to that: not ALL links -- precisely local bbcs.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-02-27, 15:17:58
Gravatar is been around for a while, but now it's intruding into my forums.

It's because Vanilla is a "Web 2.0" forum to the bones, while this one merely incorporates some XMLHTTPRequests here and there to improve the experience.

"Web 2.0" tends to be harmful to the experience.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-03-03, 10:46:18
http://ruario.ghost.io/2014/03/02/linux-and-blink-powered-opera/
Quote from: ruario
I am really sorry it is taking so long!
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2014-03-04, 02:02:35

The new Opera forums are getting spammed. I understood that the main reason why they were made was because anti-spam tools were too difficult to incorporate into My Opera. The new system isn't working that well for them either.


(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/lol015.gif) They won't find a speck of sympathy in this heart! Serves 'em right the crusty ole bastards, may they stew in their own swill!!! 
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2014-03-04, 04:31:31


The new Opera forums are getting spammed. I understood that the main reason why they were made was because anti-spam tools were too difficult to incorporate into My Opera. The new system isn't working that well for them either.


(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/lol015.gif) They won't find a speck of sympathy in this heart! Serves 'em right the crusty ole bastards, may they stew in their own swill!!!

Well put!
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2014-03-04, 05:30:36

http://ruario.ghost.io/2014/03/02/linux-and-blink-powered-opera/
Quote from: ruario
I am really sorry it is taking so long!

His claim is that since there are Linux users among Opera workers - even the CEO is that - there's hope. But in this crazy world of ours, this is not an argument any more. For example, the founder of Gentoo distro has always used a Macbook to do "real" work, and has been employed at Microsoft while working on Gentoo, etc. No contribution to Apple though as far as I am aware.

Anyway, even if Chropera does eventually have a Linux version, it will be the same bomb as on Win and Mac. Most so-called browsers out there these days are Chromium clones. One more adds nothing.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-03-04, 08:26:21
I understood that the main reason why they were made was because anti-spam tools were too difficult to incorporate into My Opera.

Rather, I'd phrase it like this: Opera wanted to save some money,* and the My Opera staff didn't protest (much) because of all the spam they constantly had to deal with. Especially on blogs.

* I'd call it advertising.

His claim is that since there are Linux users among Opera workers - even the CEO is that - there's hope. But in this crazy world of ours, this is not an argument any more. For example, the founder of Gentoo distro has always used a Macbook to do "real" work, and has been employed at Microsoft while working on Gentoo, etc. No contribution to Apple though as far as I am aware.

I am somewhat reminded of how KPN said they had something like 99% ADSL coverage (this was a decade ago), except in the least densely populated areas. This included large parts of Wassenaar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wassenaar), where the KPN CEO resided.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: gdveggie on 2014-03-04, 08:54:23

http://ruario.ghost.io/2014/03/02/linux-and-blink-powered-opera/
Quote from: ruario
I am really sorry it is taking so long!


I was just reading the Linux Mint 16 thread (https://thedndsanctuary.eu/index.php?topic=57.0) and went to the Linux Mint Blog (http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=2567) and noticed that "Linux Mint is proudly sponsored by:" Opera as a "Gold Sponsor" (the only Gold Sponsor listed).

Seems a bit ironic, given the lack of an Opera 15+ build for Linux! :P

...but in keeping with Ruarí's remarks.  :)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2014-03-04, 09:11:07
Opera's gold sponsorship ceased to be the case at the turn of the year. Must have been older posts you were reading. The current topper of the list is something called www.eukhost.com. Opera ASA looks like ancient history already
http://www.linuxmint.com/sponsors.php
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: gdveggie on 2014-03-04, 09:21:42

Opera's gold sponsorship ceased to be the case at the turn of the year. Must have been older posts you were reading.

Indeed!  My link is to the December 2013 post.

Good catch! :)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-03-07, 21:38:43
Ruari has now launched a marketing offensive on his blog, highlighting a few extensions that can restore beloved Opera behavior.
Title: What does this error mean?
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-03-08, 15:00:20
Tried to try 'uploading' on Box, a pop-up opened, I hit hit "activate plugin", then got an error.
Tried the 'details':
Quote from: Opera?
ava.lang.ExceptionInInitializerError
   at com.sun.deploy.net.protocol.https.Handler.openConnection(Unknown Source)
   at java.net.URL.openConnection(Unknown Source)
   at sun.awt.SunToolkit.getImageFromHash(Unknown Source)
   at sun.awt.SunToolkit.getImage(Unknown Source)
   at sun.plugin.util.GrayBoxPainter.loadCustomImage(Unknown Source)
   at sun.plugin.util.GrayBoxPainter.beginPainting(Unknown Source)
   at sun.plugin2.applet.Plugin2Manager.setupGrayBoxPainter(Unknown Source)
   at sun.plugin2.applet.Plugin2Manager.access$600(Unknown Source)
   at sun.plugin2.applet.Plugin2Manager$AppletExecutionRunnable.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
Caused by: java.lang.ClassCastException: sun.security.ssl.X509TrustManagerImpl cannot be cast to com.sun.net.ssl.internal.ssl.X509ExtendedTrustManager
   at com.sun.deploy.security.X509ExtendedDeployTrustManager.<init>(Unknown Source)
   at com.sun.deploy.net.protocol.https.Handler$Initializer$1.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method)
   at com.sun.deploy.net.protocol.https.Handler$Initializer.<clinit>(Unknown Source)
   ... 10 more
Exception: java.lang.ExceptionInInitializerError
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-03-08, 15:38:07
Is this an error in Opera? In any case, it sounds like you should be looking at Java.
Title: "Box" trouble
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-03-08, 15:42:40
Later, Box informed me that I was using an "old version of IE":lol:, and soon I would get more trouble...
(Individual files appeared uploadable, though...)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: 1 on 2014-03-09, 00:27:38
.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-03-09, 07:15:48
Quote from: DnD Sanctuary
You are ignoring this user.
I'm not ignoring any user, I can only ignore certain accounts.
Do you know the difference, dumple machine?
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-03-18, 21:28:39
Ruari wrote a new blog post.

http://ruario.ghost.io/2014/03/18/bookmarks/
Quote from: ruari
Stash shows its true strength when trying to find pages that you only vagely remember, since it gives better visual clues and allows for a more comprehensive search.

That doesn't actually have much to do with Stash one way or the other. And does the system have some kind of tags yet?
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2014-03-19, 03:44:05

Ruari wrote a new blog post.

http://ruario.ghost.io/2014/03/18/bookmarks/
Quote from: ruari
Stash shows its true strength when trying to find pages that you only vagely remember, since it gives better visual clues and allows for a more comprehensive search.

That doesn't actually have much to do with Stash one way or the other. And does the system have some kind of tags yet?
When it's for pages that you only vaguely remember, then why tags? Usually I can find pages that I only vaguely remember on Google too. When I know I bookmarked something (in this case "stashed"), the memory is much clearer.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2014-03-19, 05:06:27
I use FireFox, & I use both bookmarks, & speed dial.

I have only about 150 bookmarks, whereas I have over 900+ speed dials listed under 35 definitive tabs.

I have a custom button that loads a snapshot of my entire speed dial in a tab as a html page, & offers me a entry box to type in a keyword, instantaneously enabling me to find any speed dial(s) that match the keyword. (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/cleanteeth09.gif)

Bottom line, as long as FireFox & Speed Dial's creator don't give up on the Speed Dial Extension, I couldn't care if FireFox dropped bookmarks too too much.

But hey, that's just my personal point of view.  (https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.freesmileys.org%2Fsmileys%2Fsmiley-basic%2Fcool.gif&hash=c9d2ad27c6f2e04a8c6a6acc979967b0" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-basic/cool.gif)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-03-19, 08:44:09
I've got bookmarks going back over a decade. I'll bet that my folders are significantly more useful in locating barely remembered (or forgotten!) bookmarks than any other mechanism. For instance, imagine I'm searching for a rye bread sourdough recipe. I might never find it in the Stash if I have only a vague memory of it, because the one I've got is in German.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: 1 on 2014-03-19, 14:39:24
.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-04-05, 07:28:06
http://blogs.opera.com/desktop/2014/04/opera-developer-22-now-easier-update-ever/
Quote
The silent autoupdate feature is implemented using a scheduled task. Those of you familiar with the Windows Task Scheduler should be able to use it to retrieve information about the task.

Unlike Chrome, Opera knows how to write a proper auto-updater.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: krake on 2014-04-05, 08:07:37
Wonder how many of you are using Chropera?
I even deleted their forum/blogs from my bookmarks. :rip:
Quote
Unlike Chrome, Opera knows how to write a proper auto-updater.

Not that it would make any difference to me but since we are at it - is there an option to disable auto-updates or you have to manually kill updater.exe (or whatever it's named like)?
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-04-05, 10:06:09
Wonder how many of you are using Chropera?

Couldn't even if I wanted to.

Not that it would make any difference to me but since we are at it - is there an option to disable auto-updates or you have to manually kill updater.exe (or whatever it's named like)?

If it uses the Windows Task Scheduler, you can just disable or remove the scheduled task. That's kind of the meaning of proper. ;)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: krake on 2014-04-06, 08:48:27

Not that it would make any difference to me but since we are at it - is there an option to disable auto-updates or you have to manually kill updater.exe (or whatever it's named like)?

If it uses the Windows Task Scheduler, you can just disable or remove the scheduled task. That's kind of the meaning of proper. ;)

From the link you gave:
Quote
One important exception to silent autoupdate happens if you have installed Opera from a standard user account and elected to install for the "Current User" to a folder requiring administrative privileges. The installer will allow you to proceed as usual, but it will not create a scheduled task.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-04-06, 09:56:44
Hm, I see. I guess you can always delete opera_autoupdate.exe. :devil:
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-04-06, 10:15:49
There's always an option (https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fcontent.artofmanliness.com%2Fuploads%2F2009%2F09%2Frip_hammer.jpg&hash=ee456b64e5b1a98ded548611959188a9" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://content.artofmanliness.com/uploads/2009/09/rip_hammer.jpg)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: j7n on 2014-04-06, 10:58:18
ׂ
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: krake on 2014-04-07, 05:31:11

There's always an option (https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fcontent.artofmanliness.com%2Fuploads%2F2009%2F09%2Frip_hammer.jpg&hash=ee456b64e5b1a98ded548611959188a9" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://content.artofmanliness.com/uploads/2009/09/rip_hammer.jpg)


That was mine:
(https://vivaldi.net/media/com_easysocial/photos/7324/37481/2b0c1f047d3fbb9649f40a12087afb16_original.png)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: 1 on 2014-04-07, 06:40:01
.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-04-12, 17:59:25
Via Chromium Blog (http://blog.chromium.org/2014/04/blinks-first-birthday.html), I came across the list of Opera's commits (http://operasoftware.github.io/upstreamtools/#blink).
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: jax on 2014-04-12, 21:38:28
... and not the least who were making them.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2014-04-12, 22:27:31
Where is the Opera 20 File Menu??  I want to open a HTML file in the browser, but for the life of me without using   CTRL + O   I cant find anywhere in any menu that opens a simple freekin' file??!!(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/Confusioln.gif)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: j7n on 2014-04-20, 14:48:48
ׂ
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-04-20, 14:55:11
Cats!..
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: jax on 2014-04-20, 16:16:27

Opera Max (http://www.opera.com/mobile/max) a new app to transcode (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcoding) already crappy Web videos into an even lower bitrate.

Except the "parts I won't miss" have already been taken out twice.

And that annoying rich valley girl on the demo. She is so unattractive and opposite of what Opera was before that I don't want to look any further. The rich bitch could afford to actually pay for her "data plan" to watch the tubular videos on the not so tubular flat shitty cellphone screen.


If you have a limited data plan you would miss those pixels less than the capability to watch video. I generally watched no videos unless I was on WiFi. Now that I have 100 GB/month I am kind of good so I would probably not be in the market, otherwise less means more.

The actress seems somewhat in line with previous Opera ads.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-04-20, 16:53:41
It may be useful to keep some archive of them on machine.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-04-20, 17:55:16
If you have a limited data plan you would miss those pixels less than the capability to watch video.

Agreed. Opera Mini with low-quality JPEGs was instrumental in not surpassing my 2MB monthly limit last decade.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Luxor on 2014-04-22, 16:51:23
Opera 12.17 is available for download.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2014-04-22, 17:06:11

Opera 12.17 is available for download.

As per this site http://ftp.opera.com/pub/opera/ there's only Windows version, no Linux. So they have dumped Linux. And this site http://blogs.opera.com/desktop/ is totally silent of the release. Opera ASA is now ashamed of what used to be their flagship product a year ago.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Luxor on 2014-04-22, 17:13:01
As per this site http://ftp.opera.com/pub/opera/ (http://ftp.opera.com/pub/opera/) there's only Windows version, no Linux.

That's pretty poor, surely Linux users should also get the update. To be expected from them nowadays I suppose.  :( 
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-04-22, 20:29:20
Yet even for Windows, there's no changelog (http://www.opera.com/docs/changelogs/windows/).

As per this site http://ftp.opera.com/pub/opera/ (http://ftp.opera.com/pub/opera/) there's only Windows version, no Linux. So they have dumped Linux.

Well, 10.11 was only released on Linux. There is a harmless, logical precedent. What's stranger is that they don't mention it on the blog.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: j7n on 2014-04-22, 21:57:25
ׂ
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2014-04-23, 06:14:58
The sanest explanation has been provided thus far by QuHno https://vivaldi.net/forum/browsers/460-opera-v12-and-the-heartbleed-openssl-vulnerability-will-there-be-an-update#6423 full quote:

Quote
Opera <15 itself is not vulnerable to Heartbleed simply because it uses an openSSL version that does not have the Heartbeat implementation compiled in.

The only insecure part was the automatic updater, which indeed used a vulnerable version of openSSL and that was, what was addressed with the update. I don't know if the Linux version needs the openSSL library as part of the Opera distributtion because the normal Linux package and MacOSX come with their own openSSL implementation, so it would be up to the OS to provide a secure variant (1.0.1g as of today).


About Heartbleed being no problem for a client:
That is not entirely true. If you visit a Website that is secured by a  TLS connection that can use Heartbeat, the server can reverse attack you exactly the same way as a client can attack the server - provided it is a hacked server or one deliberately set up by some crooks.

A vulnerable OpenSSL implementation at the client side will happily provide the same last 64 kByte of the SSL stack no mater where it is running. The server could grab almost everything that is on the stack, if it only probes often enough via the connection you have opened by yourself by visiting the site (meaning: your FW will let it through because it is a user initiated connection done by an allowed software, aka "the browser").

In the end that could mean that the server could grab all of the information that is on the stack no matter if it is in the same tab or in other tabs where you have a SSL connection open because normally there is only "one stack to rule them all" (AFAIK - don't sue me about that). In that stack there might be session cookies or other stuff you do not want to go to other pages.

(Golden rule for online banking and other critical stuff: Close all other connections before, then start a clean browser with no tabs open and then go directly to your banking site.)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-04-23, 06:31:25
People are already calling version 12.14 "insecure (http://forums.opera.com/discussion/comment/15175406#Comment_15175406)" without providing any evidence on how exactly it is less secure than 16 or 17.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by not providing any evidence? The specific security issues fixed in 12.15 and 12.16 are well known.

http://www.opera.com/docs/changelogs/unified/1215/
http://www.opera.com/docs/changelogs/unified/1216/
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2014-04-23, 10:59:17
Not sure if we were impatient or something http://blogs.opera.com/desktop/2014/04/opera-12-17/
I'd still prefer announcements and changelogs go hand in hand with releases, not half a step and a day apart. I can understand communication misses and defective documentation from some anarchist open-source community, but Opera is a company with a full-time paid propaganda division.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: krake on 2014-04-23, 11:31:05
All I can say is that I've installed 12.17 over 12.16 and so far I didn't notice any inconvenience.
All my settings have been preserved. However, I'm still on testing.

BTW,
Quote
Mac and Linux are not affected, and will not receive a 12.17 update.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: j7n on 2014-04-23, 17:48:20
ׂ
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2014-04-24, 04:44:36

All I can say is that I've installed 12.17 over 12.16 and so far I didn't notice any inconvenience.
The official announcement says only the installer was affected, so logically you didn't get a new browser version. You got a new installer version with the new download.

However, there's a big but. The world is not logical, and this particularly applies to Opera company. For example, version 12.15 was supposed to only fix some security issue over 12.14, but also messed up search engines as an additional undocumented feature.

Keep testing.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: krake on 2014-04-24, 09:44:32

For example, version 12.15 was supposed to only fix some security issue over 12.14, but also messed up search engines as an additional undocumented feature.

That was a double purpose fix  :devil:
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Shandra on 2014-05-01, 21:11:12
Just "upgraded" from 12.16 to 12.17. Finding the x64 Installer was weird - I only found the opera.com side where I can choose the Installer type via Google (what a coincidence) and still wonder where to find the corresponding link from operas side (root) itself. As I always used the OneProfile for all user install, or later the USB install i shall be on the safe side with having backed up my old Opera Folder and will see if I want to revert (and just keeping the email-profiles folder from the new one). But what I found most amusing was that after that "upgrade" the started Opera 12.17 loaded the usual side which told me that I now have "the latest Opera" - how nice and how true if they would have said the last :P

Btw. In the old time of "Us Opera" vs. "those Firesomething Fanboys" on the old OF... Where we in any way relatable to those Chromium Fanatics who are bashing us oldsters nowadays in any way comparable to 'em? I think even in old Commodore vs. Atari Times both sides flaming and bashing the other one had deep-down some understanding and respect to the other system and it was more of envy that we can't get all in one that we pointed out the flaws of the other one while talking down the flaws on once own (and vice versa for the benefits)...
Title: What on earth is Aura?
Post by: ersi on 2014-05-06, 18:11:24
Aura-powered Opera 21 for desktop computers released today (http://blogs.opera.com/desktop/2014/05/opera-21-desktop-released-aura-powered/)
Quote
The team here put a lot of effort into getting Aura to work properly with Opera and the benefits are already paying off. Aura allows for smoother, snappier animations with a more responsive feel. So far, we have only scratched the surface of this technology, and Opera 21's primary intention was to get Aura working and stable. In the future, you will see further benefits as it allows us to give everything that little extra bit of polish!

From here I only gather snappy polished effects courtesy of hardware acceleration. Now, I know - assume rather - that hardware acceleration can be put to some good use, but I also know - quite concretely - that it can prevent using some applications.

Example: A while ago I tried to mintify an Ubuntu installation step by step, to ultimately replace Unity with the finest desktop Mint can offer - Cinnamon. The first step was to install Cinnamon alongside with Unity. The elements of these two desktop environments noticeably clash with each other, so one of them had to go one day in the name of smoother user experience. In this process I landed into a situation where Cinnamon turned visually into something horrible and displayed a lengthy error message that hardware acceleration was not in use and something about graphics. Either I screwed something up when uninstalling things or the package maintainers overlooked a conflict. Either the graphics driver got affected by Unity-Cinnamon clash over time or the hardware on the machine was not hardware-acceleration-friendly. It could be my fault, Ubuntu's, Cinnamon's, or the fault of Linux architecture in general. I am not competent enough to figure out.

The point is that the most visible error message said that hardware acceleration had failed, something happened to the graphics driver, and that's why I could not use Cinnamon, a snappy flashy polished desktop, about which I didn't even know it used hardware acceleration until the error message.

How could Aura fare better? Comments from those with direct access to Chropera and knowledgeable in hardware acceleration are welcome.

Arguably more important news in the announcement is this:

Quote
Address field option

This feature might seem small but we feel we should highlight it, as it has often been requested. We now provide an option to make Opera persistently show a page's complete URL in the address field.

Yay, full address in the address field is back! Also read the apologetic disclaimers that follow, how a mangled address field is still supposedly much better for you :)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-05-06, 20:16:57
Meh.

Anyway, there are two replacements for X in development.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayland_(display_server_protocol)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mir_(software)

Mir seems to be a case of NIH.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2014-05-07, 03:36:05
You mean a solution to my problem with hardware acceleration is to replace X? How do you replace X in Ubuntu 12.04 LTS? Wouldn't this lead to yet more package conflicts? I have found Ubuntu the least flexible distro of them all.

Besides, I have not even figured out how to configure X parameters and fix its issues. Not time for me yet to try its replacements.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-05-08, 09:17:58
Opera apologizes for wasting people's time.



You mean a solution to my problem with hardware acceleration is to replace X? How do you replace X in Ubuntu 12.04 LTS? Wouldn't this lead to yet more package conflicts? I have found Ubuntu the least flexible distro of them all.

Nah, just that 21st century issues caused by using 1987 technology are being worked on. It was mostly about the Aura thing (which does have a software fallback, I imagine). About your problem, perhaps you could try removing Cinnamon and reinstalling it?
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-05-27, 10:55:05
From the comments to http://blogs.opera.com/news/2014/05/see-interview-lars-boilesen-bloomberg-tv/

Quote from: Drewfus
One way to reduce data consumption is to minimize the 'click link, click back, click another link, click back, click...' nature of web browsing. This concept would help:

http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/4f367181-33a7-402b-af9d-a2b5779f38f2/action?threadDisplayName=book-mode-for-internet-explorer&forum=windowsdeveloperpreviewgeneral

It means running the browser in a 2-pane mode, where 1 pane (usually left) is deemed the source pane, and the other pane is deemed the target pane. The source pane is temporarily locked, allowing the receive pane to display the linked pages. Be the first browser to do this!


Quote from: Frenzie
I don't know if Opera was the first browser to do that, but what you're describing sounds an awful lot like create linked window coupled with MDI. To quote from, e.g., the Opera 8.52 help pages (http://help.opera.com/Windows/8.52/en/menus.html), a linked window constitutes a "new page in which to open links clicked in current page."


Whatever one might propose, it was probably already implemented in Opera/Presto over a decade ago. :P
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-05-28, 16:31:34
Quote
A long time ago, web sites started detecting the name and version of the visitor's browser to adjust in various ways or throw tauntrums and demand upgrades.

[...]

And web developers still apparently feel comfortable deploying this:

http://www.whatcouldbewrong.com/articles/what-will-it-take/
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2014-05-31, 21:17:17
Boilesen's interview was an intellectually painful thing to watch. He had memorised some corporate statistics and always followed them up with something lame like "that's a good thing" or "we do things differently". It's even hard to comment on this. Then again, maybe that's the whole point. Dumbing down the populace is the corporate way of avoiding criticism. The side-effect of course is that the chief executives dumb down themselves too in the process, and Boilesen looks like an advanced specimen of this kind of evolution.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-06-14, 10:40:36
I just visited the Opera Portal and saw the following:

Quote
Opera Portal is closed.
But, you can search Google to get the latest news, entertainment and sports.


I thought the Opera Portal had been turned into the native web version of Opera Discover when they removed the customization options. I guess I was wrong.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2014-06-16, 04:02:35

I thought the Opera Portal had been turned into the native web version of Opera Discover when they removed the customization options. I guess I was wrong.

To me also all talk about Discover reminded me about Opera Portal, but with less configurability. The concept is the same and that really means they are the same. To do such a thing, you don't really have to do anything at all, particularly when you take an existing concept and merely remove configurability.

Do you mean they don't share the back-end? A portal whose only purpose is to collect clicks has no back-end in the relevant sense. The same concept - and formally the same company - suffices to define the thing as the same.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-06-16, 08:01:01
Do you mean they don't share the back-end?

No, I mean they closed the place down. ;)

But yeah, last year I think you could still customize Opera Portal. Or maybe it was a year and a half ago. Then they removed those options, so it was effectively the same as Opera Discover; similar content in any case. I guess usage dwindled into oblivion after they removed customization.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Sanguinemoon on 2014-06-20, 11:51:10
http://www.opera.com/o/news-portal

Quote
Opera Portal is closed.
But, you can search Google to get the latest news, entertainment and sports.


The only thing that's surprising is they don't direct you to download the latest Opera and use Discover.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-06-21, 13:12:01
Ruarí posted a teaser:

https://twitter.com/ruari/status/480314679370461184
Quote
http://tease.ruario.fastmail.fm.user.fm/opera-about.png
#ohnohedidnt
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: jax on 2014-06-22, 11:13:08
Not at Opera Software as such, but the Alibaba purchase of UCWeb (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/alibabas-big-mobile-buy-what-were-they-thinking-2014-06-15?) was a miniquake.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-06-23, 11:16:07
Following the teaser, Opera released Opera Developer for Linux: http://blogs.opera.com/desktop/2014/06/opera-24-linux-released-developer-stream/

It seems that it looks like Ubuntu for now.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2014-06-23, 11:34:13

Following the teaser, Opera released Opera Developer for Linux: http://blogs.opera.com/desktop/2014/06/opera-24-linux-released-developer-stream/

It seems that it looks like Ubuntu for now.

The reaction in the comments is fairly telling:

Quote
Ruarí Ødegaard Mod • 4 hours ago

What the ....!? I never expected this!!!

    Avatar
    Marcin Mitek Mod Ruarí Ødegaard • 4 hours ago

    It's obviously a fake.

        Avatar
        Jonathan Aanesen Mod Marcin Mitek • 4 hours ago

        Agreed, no way this can be real.

    ahoj1234 Ruarí Ødegaard • 4 hours ago

    I love when dev guys are trolling on their own blog :D

        Avatar
        Johnny Jones Jones ahoj1234 • 16 minutes ago

        It just comes off as immature and unprofessional to me.

        I want to use a browser developed by real adults, not just a bunch of man-children who mock their ever-dwindling user base after having treated them like faeces for over a year.

In one sense you could say that the Linux version is long overdue. But since Opera faded away to irrelevancy, a Linux version really doesn't make any difference any more.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-06-23, 11:43:27
Well, that seems a bit unfair to me. :)

What is immediately obvious is that it cannot handle all of my "old" (automatically loaded) tabs properly and that it feels much slower than Otter.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-06-23, 11:54:37
Ah, without any effort whatsoever, as I was closing tabs I noticed one typical of Chromium:

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fpolymathicmonkey.smugmug.com%2Fphotos%2Fi-vxpCd3d%2F0%2FO%2Fi-vxpCd3d.png&hash=d9baf1dabd9f7ba73458d8eebfddf0ed" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://polymathicmonkey.smugmug.com/photos/i-vxpCd3d/0/O/i-vxpCd3d.png) (http://polymathicmonkey.smugmug.com/photos/i-vxpCd3d/0/O/i-vxpCd3d.png)

Notice how I have roughly 2GB of RAM available. I'm somewhat surprised it doesn't have the same sad kittens as on Opera Mobile.

Anyway, Opera's better than Chromium; over the next months we'll see if it has anything on Iceweasel/Firefox with Tab Mix Plus as a secondary browser.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2014-06-28, 17:17:08
Having looked around in Arch user repository (AUR) a bit, I can say there's interesting stuff to find there. New Chropera Developer branch is represented now, v.24.

Interesting to see several random old Opera versions in AUR. I have used 11.62 for a while now. 11.62 is the version from where I plan to migrate to Otter when Otter is ready for it.

AUR also has 11.50 Ragnarok Labs version, and some snapshot, next, and release candidate versions, as well as the regular 12.16. Probably a bunch of different package maintainers got a bunch of ideas and then forgot to maintain them sustainably...
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: jax on 2014-06-29, 14:53:31

Not at Opera Software as such, but the Alibaba purchase of UCWeb (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/alibabas-big-mobile-buy-what-were-they-thinking-2014-06-15?) was a miniquake.


Diverging even further from the browser root, Alibaba itself is about to IPO in a really big way.

As IPO Approaches, Alibaba Still A Mystery To Many Outside China (http://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelzakkour/2014/06/27/as-ipo-approaches-alibaba-still-a-mystery-to-many-outside-china-the-alibaba-effect-explains-whats-at-stake/)
Quote
On August 8, shares of Alibaba, the Chinese e-commerce giant, under the ticker symbol "BABA," will go on sale to the public. It has the potential to be the largest tech IPO in history and perhaps one of the largest IPOs in history, period. Yet Alibaba remains a mystery and an unknown quantity to most  investors, business people and consumers located outside of China.

For those of us who work in China, engage in China related business, who are trying to reach Chinese consumers and work in e-commerce in the US and China, we all know the name Alibaba, but it is easy to forget that almost no one else does.  Even those involved with the intersection of China, e-commerce and consumption don't have a full understanding of what Alibaba is, what it does and what it is planning on doing.

It's helpful to start with this: Alibaba is the largest e-commerce company on EARTH. Alibaba processed more than  $248 billion of online transactions in 2013,  and handled 70% of all packages delivered in that time, all in China. To put that in perspective, the number two e-commerce company in the world, Amazon processed $100 billion and number three, eBay EBAY +1.25% $76 billion in online transactions.  On the Chinese "Singles Day" holiday, Nov. 11, the company processed $5.75 billion in online purchases, in one day.  More than that year's Black Friday and Cyber Monday sales combined in the U.S.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Sanguinemoon on 2014-07-03, 07:14:04
Anyway, Opera's better than Chromium; over the next months we'll see if it has anything on Iceweasel/Firefox with Tab Mix Plus as a secondary browser.
So far, O 24 Dev for Linux is surprisingly light here. With 7 tabs open, all the Opera processes together were only ~250 megs, better than what I would expect out of Chromium or Firefox. There was an odd issue in which Chrome's Peppeflash would crash everytime, so I had to download the PF from the Ubuntu repos and copy it /opt/google/chrome/PepperFlash, overwriting existing flashplayer. Other than that, it seems better behaved than standard Chromium as far as both resource usage and stability goes.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2014-07-26, 06:13:17

Anyway, Opera's better than Chromium; over the next months we'll see if it has anything on Iceweasel/Firefox with Tab Mix Plus as a secondary browser.
So far, O 24 Dev for Linux is surprisingly light here. With 7 tabs open, all the Opera processes together were only ~250 megs, better than what I would expect out of Chromium or Firefox.

Traitors!! :irked:

Sure that Chromium/Chrome is lacking featurewise and is heavy resourcewise - plus eerily Googleous -, but to me this makes it all the more obvious that anything too closely based on it has the same problems. Those things will never touch my machines! (despite of being available in AUR)

But I have tried and am trying sufficiently departed browsers, such as Qupzilla, Midori, Luakit, Otter. Single-process architecture performs better, there is more attention on interface responsiveness, configuration options, and features that used to be historically normal in browsers. That's good stuff.

The sad thing is when development on them slows down or halts, the way it seems to have happened for example with Luakit. The project was started with perfect plentiful detailed documentation, so anyone with sufficient skills can pick it up and continue, but yeah...
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-08-17, 07:55:14
Opera came out with a bookmarks manager, but a quick peek suggests no nicknames.
http://blogs.opera.com/desktop/2014/08/opera-developer-25-update-first-glance-bookmarks/
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: krake on 2014-08-18, 17:23:14
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn1.tnwcdn.com%2Fwp-content%2Fblogs.dir%2F1%2Ffiles%2F2014%2F05%2FBrowser-Share-Report-data-May-2014.png&hash=9453a38a72230583f75db78b84f59a2a" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://cdn1.tnwcdn.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2014/05/Browser-Share-Report-data-May-2014.png)

Opera's desktop browser is continuing its irresistible march to the South.
Would be interesting to know how many old Presto browsers are still accounting for those fantastic 0,85%.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Barulheira on 2014-08-18, 18:48:20
The South is not bad. :irked:
As a whole, mobile browsers are getting a bigger share. It would be interesting to have statistics on desktop browsers only.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: krake on 2014-08-19, 09:26:47

The South is not bad. :irked:

Sorry, no offense intended. By "South" I meant (https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.public-domain-photos.com%2Ffree-cliparts-1%2Fsigns_and_symbols%2Fmap_symbols%2Faiga_down_arrow_.png&hash=6b5e9861fe3dd02c929f9e22ace5eaac" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.public-domain-photos.com/free-cliparts-1/signs_and_symbols/map_symbols/aiga_down_arrow_.png)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Barulheira on 2014-08-19, 10:43:24
Everybody means that.  :furious:
:coffee:
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-08-24, 10:14:19
I'm not sure what to make of this. The Opera crash reporter dialog hasn't been working for me for about a year. (Opera/Presto may crash infrequently, but it does crash on occasion.) But it just crashed and reporting actually worked. Was it just broken on my end?
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2014-08-24, 12:59:49

Would be interesting to know how many old Presto browsers are still accounting for those fantastic 0,85%.

Don't these stats directly depend on how the user-agent identifies itself and isn't it so that Chropera inevitably identifies itself as Chrome? If yes, then this means that only Presto and Presto Mobile leave tracks as "Opera" in the stats.

Or is there some hidden little marker in the user-agent string to identify Chropera as "Opera"? In which case doesn't it mean that the stat-bots must update themselves to the fact? What motivation would the have for this? 


I'm not sure what to make of this. The Opera crash reporter dialog hasn't been working for me for about a year. (Opera/Presto may crash infrequently, but it does crash on occasion.) But it just crashed and reporting actually worked. Was it just broken on my end?

You report Presto's crashes? Warum?

Goethe's lyrics :sing:
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-08-24, 14:26:06
Or is there some hidden little marker in the user-agent string to identify Chropera as "Opera"? In which case doesn't it mean that the stat-bots must update themselves to the fact? What motivation would the have for this?

Yes, just like every browser using the Webkit or Blink engine.

For example, I'm posting this from:
Code: [Select]
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/36.0.1985.143 Safari/537.36 OPR/23.0.1522.77

Note the very end.

You report Presto's crashes? Warum?

You have to press either "don't report" or "report" for it to restart, so that's one reason. :P
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2014-08-24, 15:12:33

Code: [Select]
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/36.0.1985.143 Safari/537.36 OPR/23.0.1522.77

Note the very end.

Ja. Und I note how the forum software registers this as Chrome among your other user data beside the post.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-08-25, 07:24:04
Well, technically it stores the user agent and generates the display stuff on the fly. If I get around to modding the thing I probably intend to have it display the actual user agent on hover or something.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2014-08-25, 09:22:37
That sounds cute.

But in terms of universal browser statistics on the web, do you know how the browser-sniffer data is organised and presented by those various stats organisations? Do they do anything more than just applying one of the major icons to the string and drawing a nice table with stats?
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-08-25, 14:00:45
But in terms of universal browser statistics on the web, do you know how the browser-sniffer data is organised and presented by those various stats organisations? Do they do anything more than just applying one of the major icons to the string and drawing a nice table with stats?

I wouldn't count on it, but to be fair knowing the popularity of rendering engines is in many ways more relevant than knowing the specific browsers involved. Then again, stuff like Google Analytics is full of Javascript, so I guess at least some of it has to serve some kind of useful detection purpose...
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-09-10, 08:44:21
If Chromium and Opera/Blink block your GPU for some reason, you can test GPU acceleration with:
Code: [Select]
opera-developer --ignore-gpu-blacklist


Apparently Chromium blacklisted everything ATI back in 2011 (http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=76428). They unblocked newer fglrx (http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=101225) but apparently never unblocked any of the newer really quite nice open-source Gallium drivers (cf. Mozilla (https://wiki.mozilla.org/Blocklisting/Blocked_Graphics_Drivers#On_X11) which did).

Code: [Select]
Driver Information
Initialization time 142
Sandboxed false
GPU0 VENDOR = 0x1002, DEVICE= 0x6810
Optimus false
AMD switchable false
Driver vendor Mesa
Driver version 10.2.6
Driver date
Pixel shader version 1.30
Vertex shader version 1.30
Machine model name
Machine model version
GL_VENDOR VMware, Inc.
GL_RENDERER Gallium 0.4 on llvmpipe (LLVM 3.4, 128 bits)
GL_VERSION 3.0 Mesa 10.2.6
GL_EXTENSIONS GL_ARB_multisample GL_EXT_abgr GL_EXT_bgra GL_EXT_blend_color GL_EXT_blend_minmax GL_EXT_blend_subtract GL_EXT_copy_texture GL_EXT_polygon_offset GL_EXT_subtexture GL_EXT_texture_object GL_EXT_vertex_array GL_EXT_compiled_vertex_array GL_EXT_texture GL_EXT_texture3D GL_IBM_rasterpos_clip GL_ARB_point_parameters GL_EXT_draw_range_elements GL_EXT_packed_pixels GL_EXT_point_parameters GL_EXT_rescale_normal GL_EXT_separate_specular_color GL_EXT_texture_edge_clamp GL_SGIS_generate_mipmap GL_SGIS_texture_border_clamp GL_SGIS_texture_edge_clamp GL_SGIS_texture_lod GL_ARB_framebuffer_sRGB GL_ARB_multitexture GL_EXT_framebuffer_sRGB GL_IBM_multimode_draw_arrays GL_IBM_texture_mirrored_repeat GL_ARB_texture_cube_map GL_ARB_texture_env_add GL_ARB_transpose_matrix GL_EXT_blend_func_separate GL_EXT_fog_coord GL_EXT_multi_draw_arrays GL_EXT_secondary_color GL_EXT_texture_env_add GL_EXT_texture_lod_bias GL_INGR_blend_func_separate GL_NV_blend_square GL_NV_light_max_exponent GL_NV_texgen_reflection GL_NV_texture_env_combine4 GL_S3_s3tc GL_SUN_multi_draw_arrays GL_ARB_texture_border_clamp GL_ARB_texture_compression GL_EXT_framebuffer_object GL_EXT_texture_compression_s3tc GL_EXT_texture_env_combine GL_EXT_texture_env_dot3 GL_MESA_window_pos GL_NV_packed_depth_stencil GL_NV_texture_rectangle GL_ARB_depth_texture GL_ARB_occlusion_query GL_ARB_shadow GL_ARB_texture_env_combine GL_ARB_texture_env_crossbar GL_ARB_texture_env_dot3 GL_ARB_texture_mirrored_repeat GL_ARB_window_pos GL_EXT_stencil_two_side GL_EXT_texture_cube_map GL_NV_depth_clamp GL_NV_fog_distance GL_APPLE_packed_pixels GL_APPLE_vertex_array_object GL_ARB_draw_buffers GL_ARB_fragment_program GL_ARB_fragment_shader GL_ARB_shader_objects GL_ARB_vertex_program GL_ARB_vertex_shader GL_ATI_draw_buffers GL_ATI_texture_env_combine3 GL_ATI_texture_float GL_EXT_shadow_funcs GL_EXT_stencil_wrap GL_MESA_pack_invert GL_MESA_ycbcr_texture GL_NV_primitive_restart GL_ARB_depth_clamp GL_ARB_fragment_program_shadow GL_ARB_half_float_pixel GL_ARB_occlusion_query2 GL_ARB_point_sprite GL_ARB_shading_language_100 GL_ARB_sync GL_ARB_texture_non_power_of_two GL_ARB_vertex_buffer_object GL_ATI_blend_equation_separate GL_EXT_blend_equation_separate GL_OES_read_format GL_ARB_color_buffer_float GL_ARB_pixel_buffer_object GL_ARB_texture_compression_rgtc GL_ARB_texture_float GL_ARB_texture_rectangle GL_ATI_texture_compression_3dc GL_EXT_packed_float GL_EXT_pixel_buffer_object GL_EXT_texture_compression_dxt1 GL_EXT_texture_compression_rgtc GL_EXT_texture_mirror_clamp GL_EXT_texture_rectangle GL_EXT_texture_sRGB GL_EXT_texture_shared_exponent GL_ARB_framebuffer_object GL_EXT_framebuffer_blit GL_EXT_framebuffer_multisample GL_EXT_packed_depth_stencil GL_ARB_vertex_array_object GL_ATI_separate_stencil GL_ATI_texture_mirror_once GL_EXT_draw_buffers2 GL_EXT_draw_instanced GL_EXT_gpu_program_parameters GL_EXT_texture_array GL_EXT_texture_compression_latc GL_EXT_texture_integer GL_EXT_texture_sRGB_decode GL_EXT_timer_query GL_OES_EGL_image GL_ARB_copy_buffer GL_ARB_depth_buffer_float GL_ARB_draw_instanced GL_ARB_half_float_vertex GL_ARB_instanced_arrays GL_ARB_map_buffer_range GL_ARB_texture_rg GL_ARB_texture_swizzle GL_ARB_vertex_array_bgra GL_EXT_texture_swizzle GL_EXT_vertex_array_bgra GL_NV_conditional_render GL_AMD_conservative_depth GL_AMD_draw_buffers_blend GL_AMD_seamless_cubemap_per_texture GL_ARB_ES2_compatibility GL_ARB_blend_func_extended GL_ARB_debug_output GL_ARB_draw_buffers_blend GL_ARB_draw_elements_base_vertex GL_ARB_explicit_attrib_location GL_ARB_fragment_coord_conventions GL_ARB_provoking_vertex GL_ARB_sampler_objects GL_ARB_seamless_cube_map GL_ARB_shader_texture_lod GL_ARB_texture_multisample GL_ARB_texture_rgb10_a2ui GL_ARB_uniform_buffer_object GL_ARB_vertex_type_2_10_10_10_rev GL_EXT_provoking_vertex GL_EXT_texture_snorm GL_MESA_texture_signed_rgba GL_ARB_get_program_binary GL_ARB_robustness GL_ARB_separate_shader_objects GL_ARB_shader_bit_encoding GL_ARB_timer_query GL_ARB_transform_feedback2 GL_ARB_transform_feedback3 GL_NV_vdpau_interop GL_ANGLE_texture_compression_dxt3 GL_ANGLE_texture_compression_dxt5 GL_ARB_conservative_depth GL_ARB_internalformat_query GL_ARB_map_buffer_alignment GL_ARB_shading_language_420pack GL_ARB_shading_language_packing GL_ARB_texture_storage GL_ARB_transform_feedback_instanced GL_EXT_framebuffer_multisample_blit_scaled GL_EXT_transform_feedback GL_AMD_shader_trinary_minmax GL_ARB_clear_buffer_object GL_ARB_invalidate_subdata GL_ARB_texture_storage_multisample GL_ARB_vertex_attrib_binding GL_KHR_debug GL_ARB_multi_bind GL_ARB_texture_mirror_clamp_to_edge GL_ARB_vertex_type_10f_11f_11f_rev GL_EXT_shader_integer_mix
Window system binding vendor SGI
Window system binding version 1.4
Window system binding extensions GLX_ARB_create_context GLX_ARB_create_context_profile GLX_ARB_fbconfig_float GLX_ARB_framebuffer_sRGB GLX_ARB_multisample GLX_EXT_create_context_es2_profile GLX_EXT_framebuffer_sRGB GLX_EXT_import_context GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap GLX_EXT_visual_info GLX_EXT_visual_rating GLX_MESA_copy_sub_buffer GLX_OML_swap_method GLX_SGI_swap_control GLX_SGIS_multisample GLX_SGIX_fbconfig GLX_SGIX_pbuffer GLX_SGIX_visual_select_group GLX_INTEL_swap_event
Direct rendering Yes
Reset notification strategy 0x8261
GPU process crash count 0


Oddly enough, a test like http://dinohunt2.ivank.net/ runs smoothly in Opera/Presto,  in Iceweasel, as well as in chromium --ignore-gpu-blacklist, but not in Opera Developer.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-09-13, 12:31:48
I don't know when it happened exactly, but Opera/Blink is in some subtle ways more Opera-like than it was at first. Several of its keyboard shortcuts (like F8 to the addressbar) have returned to the default installation and flip back/forward seems to work well. I haven't started Chromium for Blink testing in weeks.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-09-24, 14:51:56
Opera Developer added bookmarks sharing (not syncing): https://share.opera.com/e461b3ceb3f7486cae781c6dd1544d7b
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-10-03, 08:54:01
I don't believe I shared this yet, but what to me was one of the more annoying SVG-related rendering engine regressions introduced by Blink has been fixed: http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=262209
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-10-10, 10:29:57
CSS is twenty years old!

https://dev.opera.com/articles/css-twenty-years-hakon/
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Barulheira on 2014-10-10, 16:20:03
Amazing! :up:
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Sanguinemoon on 2014-10-13, 10:31:27
https://share.opera.com/e461b3ceb3f7486cae781c6dd1544d7b (https://share.opera.com/e461b3ceb3f7486cae781c6dd1544d7b)[/quote]
But seems to have lost its ability to import bookmarks for at least a couple releases already. For a browser so heavily invested in the mobile market, I would think syncing would be job one. Who really cares if the latest version if Chromium can do a few things no website has actually implemented yet if there's not an obvious way to carry your bookmarks wherever you go?
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-10-13, 13:33:07
I guess syncing will come to mobile soon?

http://blogs.opera.com/desktop/2014/10/faq-opera-syncing/

I wonder what I'll do if Opera Link is shut down. Once a replacement is finally ready and Opera for Linux is officially released, they're bound to drop it.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Luxor on 2014-10-15, 11:05:09
I'm getting near to the point of dropping Opera presto and moving permanently to firefox.
So many sites that I visit are no longer working correctly with presto and it's beginning to get tedious using "open with ff" so often.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-10-15, 12:40:08
So in Firefox, how would one do something that's extremely simple in Opera like
Code: [Select]
Button6, "InFx"="Execute program, "firefox", "%u", "InFx", "Firefox""

In other words, I want to execute a program on my computer (like another browser, youtube-dl, etc.) with the URL of the page I'm looking at as an argument.

And while we're at it, can it be done in Opera/Blink?
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Macallan on 2014-10-17, 12:27:19

Or is there some hidden little marker in the user-agent string to identify Chropera as "Opera"? In which case doesn't it mean that the stat-bots must update themselves to the fact? What motivation would the have for this?

Yes, just like every browser using the Webkit or Blink engine.

Well...
Code: [Select]
Mozilla/5.0 (X11; NetBSD) AppleWebKit/537.6+ Midori/"0"."4"

Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2014-10-18, 22:24:51

So in Firefox, how would one do something that's extremely simple in Opera like
Code: [Select]
Button6, "InFx"="Execute program, "firefox", "%u", "InFx", "Firefox""

In other words, I want to execute a program on my computer (like another browser, youtube-dl, etc.) with the URL of the page I'm looking at as an argument.......


Do you have the Custom Buttons Addon (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/custom-buttons/?src=ss), & if you do I have an 'Open-In Browser' button that does just that.

You can use it in conjunction with another button & have all your 'Open-In-Browser'  buttons in a drop down menu (a stacker button which is a drop down menu of other non-menu type buttons)

Code: [Select]

/*Code*/

var appName = "Browser Name goes Here";
var regRoot = Components.interfaces.nsIWindowsRegKey.ROOT_KEY_LOCAL_MACHINE;
var regKey = "";
var regValue = "";
var appExe = "";
var branch = "Browsers Name goes Here";
var url = gBrowser.currentURI;

this.LaunchApp(appName, regRoot, regKey, regValue, appExe, branch, url);


Code: [Select]

/*Initialization Code*/

function isSupported(aURI) {
  var mSchemes = ["file", "ftp", "http", "https"];
  return mSchemes.indexOf(aURI.scheme) > -1;
}

this.LaunchApp = function(aName, aReg, aKey, aValue, aExe, aBranch, aURI) {
  if(!isSupported(aURI)) {
    alert("Unsupported URI scheme '" + aURI.scheme + "'!");
    return;
  }

  var prefString = "custombuttons.lauchApp." + aBranch;
  var path2exe;
  try {
    path2exe = gPrefService.getCharPref(prefString);
  } catch(ex) {
    try {
      var winReg = Components.classes["@mozilla.org/windows-registry-key;1"]
                    .createInstance(Components.interfaces.nsIWindowsRegKey);
      winReg.open(aReg, aKey, Components.interfaces.nsIWindowsRegKey.ACCESS_READ);
      path2exe = winReg.readStringValue(aValue) + aExe;
      winReg.close();
    } catch(ex) {
      const nsIFilePicker = Components.interfaces.nsIFilePicker;
      var fp = Components.classes['@mozilla.org/filepicker;1']
                  .createInstance(nsIFilePicker);
      fp.init(window, "Set " + aName + "Directory", nsIFilePicker.modeOpen);
      fp.appendFilters(nsIFilePicker.filterApps);
      if(fp.show() == nsIFilePicker.returnOK) path2exe = fp.file.path;
      else return;
    }
  }

  gPrefService.setCharPref(prefString, path2exe);

  var app = Components.classes["@mozilla.org/file/local;1"]
                .createInstance(Components.interfaces.nsILocalFile);
  app.initWithPath(path2exe);

  var process = Components.classes["@mozilla.org/process/util;1"]
                  .createInstance(Components.interfaces.nsIProcess);
  process.init(app);
  process.run(false, [aURI.spec], 1);

}

this.style.opacity = '.65';
this.setAttribute("onmouseover", "custombuttons.ButtonBrt(event);" );
this.setAttribute("onmouseout", "custombuttons.ButtonDim(event);" );

this.setAttribute("author",'LouCypher'); // Stores Author.
this.setAttribute("version",'20060814.00');                                                 // Stores Version.
this.setAttribute('homepage', 'http://custombuttons2.com/forum/buttons/buttons-database/browser-launch-button-group.html');
this.setAttribute("dependency",'FF 2.0.*,CB 2.0.*'); // Stores Dependency.
this.setAttribute("status",'Complete'); // Stores Devstatus.
this.setAttribute("public",true); // Stores Public.


Here's the code for the 'Open-In Browser Button', or as the author called it 'The Browser Launch Button'

This button, when clicked the first time, will ask you for the location of your desired browsers executable location. When you complete that it will thereafter open your valid URL from your FireFox address-bar in the browser of your choice. You need an open url in Firefox when you click this button otherwise you'll get an error message.

I have quite a few buttons that still work in the new FireFox (some with modification), so if you need something simple just PM me or post here, & when I can I'll get back to ya when I read it.

JFYI - I'm not a programmer, I just trial & error cut & pastes when I need something simple.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Belfrager on 2014-10-26, 12:30:47
Installed Opera 25 yesterday.
Will install it today.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: krake on 2014-10-28, 11:12:56

Installed Opera 25 yesterday.
Will install it today.


Are you installing Opera on a daily basis?
In that case you could open a new thread like: "What's going on in Portugal?"  :D
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Belfrager on 2014-10-28, 22:55:50


Installed Opera 25 yesterday.
Will install it today.


Are you installing Opera on a daily basis?
In that case you could open a new thread like: "What's going on in Portugal?"  :D

Nothing goes on here, that's why we keep installing Opera everyday, to get busy... :D
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-11-21, 22:24:27
I don't know how people get anything done in browsers other than Opera/Presto. I can't even find features as basic as semi-workable bookmarks or the links panel.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: krake on 2014-11-21, 22:45:30
What most people need is just a basic content reader.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2014-11-21, 22:48:53
Looks like Stash is being dumped from Chropera http://forums.opera.com/discussion/1859106/bring-back-the-option-to-only-have-the-stash

How does it affect you, those who use Chropera?


I don't know how people get anything done in browsers other than Opera/Presto. I can't even find features as basic as semi-workable bookmarks or the links panel.

What are semi-workable (or workable) bookmarks like?
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Shandra on 2014-11-22, 02:52:55
Not sure what Frenzie meant, but for me semi-workable is something like Bookmarks/Bookmarks-Manager in Opera Presto (which could be improved - therefore Semi) but for which I also found no other Browser that has the same usability as OPresto had achieved in this context (combined/working together with the sidebar/notes/links/etc. panels) :chef:
Just the basics - Bookmark/Bookmark Here in the Bookmarks Menu (Did I mentioned that there is no way (for me) to work without a menu bar?) - something Firefox comes close to but is somehow not quite in reach of OPresto and then the Bookmarks Manager itself - simple structure (alike to Windows User/desktop, etc.) alike to folder/file style - but just the ability of sorting+that sort "by my order" actually works is/was IMHO unrivaled.
And maybe one can say - that this is just one of the many points where I(/us) old user(s) are simply stucked with my(our) workflow and may well be neglected in more modern times for the benefit of the next generation of users (in Tron context I would merely consider them as Apps), but for me with my roots in an earlier generation there is, at the moment, no browser which comes close to Opera Presto and all of it's minor but important Details in usability and customizability - that combined with M2 and there still is no competitor which can rival it (unless you are a Mobile or Tablet user (and have learned to live with less), but I do hope that we are talking desktop here).
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-11-22, 09:48:07
What are semi-workable (or workable) bookmarks like?

Opera/Presto has the best but it used to be better prior to 10.50. Firefox and Otter approximate parts of it here and there. Anything else is pretty much a disaster. I'm talking about everything from bookmarks management to panel to nicknames to addressbar presentation. Heck, include Opera Link and Opera Mobile/Presto because Mobile Firefox has horrible bookmarks, which is odd given how its desktop version is second-best.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2014-11-22, 10:11:17

Opera/Presto has the best but it used to be better prior to 10.50.

You mean prior to speed dial? Or was there something else you hate besides the speed dial?


I'm talking about everything from bookmarks management to panel to nicknames to addressbar presentation. Heck, include Opera Link and Opera Mobile/Presto because Mobile Firefox has horrible bookmarks, which is odd given how its desktop version is second-best.

FF bookmarking is second-best probably as a historical remnant from Mozilla. To be changed at a random date, I guess. I'm still amazed how FF left the setting Browser.tabs.closeButtons there, but took its effects away.

I have formerly written a fair overview of Opera's bookmarking (https://thedndsanctuary.eu/index.php?topic=211.msg12654#msg12654). Anything missing there? Anything you want to add?

By the way, bookmarking is an important separate topic. Maybe lift it apart from this thread.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-11-22, 13:45:10
What most people need is just a basic content reader.

Perhaps, but that's why Microsoft has both Wordpad and Word. You could go on with that list for a while. Yet they only have one Internet Explorer. That in itself isn't necessarily surprising -- there is no Microsoft Photoshop -- but I'm not sure if anyone besides Opera was even trying. Maybe Mozilla before Firefox became their main browser.

You mean prior to speed dial? Or was there something else you hate besides the speed dial?

I'm fine with speed dial, which I believe was introduced in 9.x (although I had it disabled for years). It fulfills the same purpose as the bookmarks toolbar for my wife and nicknames for myself. It's more the relevance of the search results in autocompleting search engines and history being, well, not all that relevant anymore. Nitpickingly you could say I'm complaining about the addressbar, but it's the bookmark functionality that suffers from it either way.

I have formerly written a fair overview of Opera's bookmarking (https://thedndsanctuary.eu/index.php?topic=211.msg12654#msg12654). Anything missing there? Anything you want to add?

I'd be hard-pressed to call something like "open all in folder" a nice extra. Anyway, that's a nice post. I'd just add some addressbar-related bookmarks interaction.

By the way, bookmarking is an important separate topic. Maybe lift it apart from this thread.

It might be a better idea simply to start a new topic on the Otter forum if desired? I was just lamenting that I was browsing around in Firefox and I saw no other way to quickly copy fifteen URLs than to open the site in Opera. Yes, yes, I'm sure there's probably an extension that does it. Perhaps it even works in the current version of Firefox. But that gets old rather soon.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2014-11-23, 01:06:15
I was just lamenting that I was browsing around in Firefox and I saw no other way to quickly copy fifteen URLs than to open the site in Opera. Yes, yes, I'm sure there's probably an extension that does it.


Only 15? 

Give Session Manager a go, it's quite easy, & I've used it for years for specific group, multi-url saves.

99% of the time its simply just one click away.

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised once you finish stumbling around.

You'll prolly figure it all out way easier than my non-techno mind could ever hope to explain it.

I'm using the latest Pale Moon Portable ( (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/yahoo.gif)  non-Australis  (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/thumbs/dancetd3.gif)) v25.1.0, & Session Manager works fine in it.

I haven't bothered with anything newer than FF Portable v30.0 Australis, but it works fine in there too.

SESSION MANAGER (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/session-manager/?src=ss)

According to it's latest version   v0.8.1.6    it touts being compatible up to FF v36, it's updated quite regularly, & via its support site(s), it's refreshingly well documented too.

JFYI ..... I've used it to save & successfully reopen way in excess of 15 urls at once ... more like 30+/-, but FF does labor with opening that many tabs especially with all the bloated, over-the-top content websites are using lately.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Josh M on 2014-11-23, 07:41:31
I cannot agree with those of you here who are saying that modern Opera (based on Chromium) is plain rubbish.

Opera 27 dev (you can try stable/beta/dev chanells from http://blogs.opera.com/desktop/) is one of the finest browsers out there. Sure, is much less potent than Opera 12.x (based on Presto), but the speed is singificantly different and new features are coming every build. There are addons/extensions for Opera too.

I am worried that one day in future, (perhaps in time of about Opera 30 stable) it may happen my default browser again. However, Firefox is still in big margin in every field.

Unfortunatelly (at least for me), there are only Linux 64-bit builds of all Opera chanells currently with low chance to ever see 32-bit coming back from Opera software. (( The same happened with SRWare Iron -- what is fork of Chromium -- last month. They just decided it is no longer worth of their time to even creating 32-bit build for Linux due to lower usage of 32-Bit Versions on Linux. [I doubt this reasoning] ))

Many software projects throwing away 32-bit builds alike. No. I am not going to either install Windows nor buy new laptop just for the sake of being able to test 64-bit builds of Opera browser in Linux.

Luckily, Otter browser's developers keep making 32-bit builds for Linux.

Otter is still in its bleeding-edge phase of developement, but I am confident that Otter project has its firm values based on old Opera 12.x and interesting potential to go.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-11-23, 10:59:10
Only 15? 

Give Session Manager a go, it's quite easy, & I've used it for years for specific group, multi-url saves.

99% of the time its simply just one click away.

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised once you finish stumbling around.

You'll prolly figure it all out way easier than my non-techno mind could ever hope to explain it.

I'm afraid you misunderstood me. I was talking about URLs on webpages. The exact number hardly matters. What works conveniently for 2 or 3 URLs doesn't work well for 15. What works conveniently for 15 works equally well for 100 (or at least the Links panel does).

But regarding Session Manager, as far as I can tell it produces a JSON file, not something I can easily transfer into a document or a bibliography. However, there are one or more extensions that can copy the URLs of all currently open tabs.

I cannot agree with those of you here who are saying that modern Opera (based on Chromium) is plain rubbish.

I believe I've been saying that Opera has become the very best Chromium available. Admittedly that is damning it with faint praise, but heck, it' s a lot better than a year ago. It's superior to vanilla Fx, but with as little as Tab Mix Plus Fx does manage to pull ahead of Opera with some Konami code settings. Perhaps it's roughly equal, but the very concept of the Konami code to access basic required functionality works against Opera.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-11-23, 20:45:15
I just noticed that Opera/Blink now has extended lazy setting loading (opera://flags/#extended-lazy-session-loading). This might well be the first thing implemented in Opera/Blink that I want that wasn't in Opera/Presto.

Anyway, I enabled usage info in the hopes that it'll add some statistic to all of the Konami-madness and flags I've enabled.

In other news, I had to remove Opera Mobile/Blink from my phone again on account of it guzzling up too much space.

Edit: trying to use it as a main browser on my laptop for testing purposes was going reasonably well with the features that have slowly accumulated, but I quickly ran into a PDF file (link (http://www.textualscholarship.nl/wp-content/bestanden/2011/06/Het-Gaesdonckse-traktatenhandschrift_LRbinnenwerk.pdf)). It opens in the browser. Annoying. Managing filetypes? I don't think it can be done. You know what browser can still manage filetypes? Firefox. Anyway, so click the download icon and that's it. But no, double-clicking the downloaded file opens in Opera/Blink once more! Only by right-click > show in folder can I actually get the PDF to open in a PDF viewer of my choice. Not good enough for third place as a graphical browser, which I thought it was heading toward before this fiasco.[1] Sorry, bro. But at least it moved up a spot away from fifth place.

[1] Current order:
1. Opera/Presto
2. Firefox and Otter
3. Netsurf
4. Opera/Blink and SeaMonkey
5. Various other Webkit and/or Blink browsers (not Chromium, that's lower)

eLinks would probably go just ahead of Netsurf if I'd said browsers in general.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-12-03, 14:57:22
Opera 26 was officially released for Linux earlier today. http://blogs.opera.com/desktop/2014/12/frequently-asked-questions-opera-linux/ It will not automatically replace our beloved Opera/Presto:
Quote from: Ruari
To replace Opera 12.16 with the latest version, search for the opera-stable package in your Software Center. Alternatively, if you prefer the command line, issue the following in a terminal window:
Code: [Select]
    sudo apt-get update
    sudo apt-get install opera-stable


If this does not work for you, please read "Is Opera available for my Linux distribution".
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Josh M on 2014-12-03, 15:41:54
Quote from: Frenzie

Current order:
1. Opera/Presto
2. Firefox and Otter
3. Netsurf
4. Opera/Blink and SeaMonkey
5. Various other Webkit and/or Blink browsers (not Chromium, that's lower)

eLinks would probably go just ahead of Netsurf if I'd said browsers in general.


SeaMonkey is a very advanced browser.

Unlike other Gecko-based browsers, which are mostly obsolete trash, SeaMonkey is always properly updated to the latest version of Gecko core. The core has the same frequency of upgrades as Firefox. (SeaMonkey 2.31 stable = Firefox 34.0 stable), (SeaMonkey 2.34a1 nightly = Firefox 37.0a1 nightly)

But SeaMonkey it is not just '2nd Firefox'. It can be the ultimate Firefox or even more than Firefox itself.

SeaMonkey has its own native addons!
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/seamonkey/

There is also SeaMonkey Sync! (alike similar feature in other browsers, such as Chrome Sync, Firefox Sync)
http://www.seamonkey-project.org/doc/features

Some addons are Firefox-only, Thunderbird-only. But now is here new tool to convert them for SeaMonkey!!!
http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2834855
http://addonconverter.fotokraina.com/
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-12-03, 16:08:02
But SeaMonkey it is not just '2nd Firefox'. It can be the ultimate Firefox or even more than Firefox itself.

I preferred what wasn't called SeaMonkey then up to at least Firefox version 2. It was the Mozilla Suite with an extension to improve tab management, which was later integrated into the core for the first SeaMonkey release. Nevertheless I thought SeaMonkey was left behind by e.g. Firefox' superior cookies management. The very same superior features they've been trying to hide and/or strip out in Firefox 4+. It's true, SeaMonkey is a decent alternative. But in spite of all its flaws, these days I still seem to prefer Firefox with Tab Mix Plus as a secondary/tertiary browser. The thing is, I thought Mozilla was left in the dust by Opera 7.x and for me the distance only increased over the years (although it might've decreased slightly in 10.50+). :)

I should perhaps add that I've been slowly migrating away from Opera/Presto. I now keep all of my notes in Zim, whereas previously I used a combination of Opera Notes and plain text files (NB Zim == plain text files). I've been looking around for a new aggregator, although Liferea doesn't completely hold my fancy and I'm still using Opera for that. For mail I've long since switched to Thunderbird in the form of Icedove. I'm starting to approach the point where if it weren't for bookmarks, I could probably live with switching browsers. I just don't understand why other browsers don't get bookmarks.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: krake on 2014-12-03, 17:24:12

but I quickly ran into a PDF file (link (http://www.textualscholarship.nl/wp-content/bestanden/2011/06/Het-Gaesdonckse-traktatenhandschrift_LRbinnenwerk.pdf)). It opens in the browser. Annoying. Managing filetypes? I don't think it can be done. You know what browser can still manage filetypes? Firefox.

Firefox gives you a second option to prevent PDFs opening in your browser.
about:config -> pdfjs.disabled;true


Current order:
1. Opera/Presto
2. Firefox and Otter
3. Netsurf

Mine is:
1. Opera[Presto]
2. Firefox[ESR]
3. K-Meleon

Edit: Is Olli out or is he still working for Opera AS?
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: krake on 2014-12-03, 17:48:42

I cannot agree with those of you here who are saying that modern Opera (based on Chromium) is plain rubbish.

Plain rubbish or not -  each to their own.

Whatever, in case you are not short of memory you'll probably remember statements like: just a change under the hood, average users won't even notice.  :jester:

Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice, shame on me.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-12-03, 17:51:40
Firefox gives you a second option to prevent PDFs opening in your browser.
about:config -> pdfjs.disabled;true

All things considered opening in the browser by default is better for me than opening it with a plugin. What really annoyed me is that somehow downloading the file still opens it in Opera. Although I also quite dislike the download lack of dialog and such.

Edit: Is Olli out or is he still working for Opera AS?

I believe he's working for Vivaldi, why?
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: krake on 2014-12-03, 20:01:42

All things considered opening in the browser by default is better for me than opening it with a plugin.

Even better to open in dedicated applications, you can configure.

What really annoyed me is that somehow downloading the file still opens it in Opera.

Chropera seems to be a stubborn fellow. :D

Although I also quite dislike the download lack of dialog and such.

You could set Firefox to ask where to save files and then it would prompt even for PDFs.

I believe he's working for Vivaldi, why?

Just asking.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-12-03, 20:05:16
Even better to open in dedicated applications, you can configure.

That's what I was complaining about in the first place, so I think it's obvious that I agree. :P

You could set Firefox to ask where to save files and then it would prompt even for PDFs.

I know... ;) I mean, I've been using Firefox since it was called Phoenix in version 0.3 or 0.4 so I'm reasonably familiar with how to manipulate it. I wasn't very impressed back then, but in a way I guess you could say they've gone back to the core. I never saw the point over Mozilla, except maybe in the sense of splitting up the applications that didn't seem to have much integration besides sharing some libraries anyway.

Opera has a few default things that feel like Opera, such as flip back/forward and F8. Of course, so does Otter. Anyway, that just means it gains some points as a tertiary browser. I want to spend as little time configuring my peripheral browsers as possible. Well, same for my main browser, but there it kind of builds up over time.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2014-12-19, 10:16:48
Stash has been trashed in favour of bookmarks (bookmarks that nobody was supposed to be using according to Opera ASA's scientific study) https://forums.opera.com/discussion/1859614/opera-stash-doesn039t-work-anymore
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-12-19, 10:44:13
It's a pity the bookmarks are inherently touch-oriented and are still missing nicknames.

I do actually think Stash or something like it makes conceptual sense. I often leave pages open that I still want to read sometime later, but I don't want to bookmark them either. Bookmarking them and then deleting the bookmark would be workable, but it'd also be annoying. That doesn't mean I thought Stash was missing functionality. As I said above, "[Lazy Session Loading] might well be the first thing implemented in Opera/Blink that I want that wasn't in Opera/Presto." It just means I can see its conceptual niche.

The problem was that Opera seemed to think Stash's niche could somehow cover all of bookmarks, when in truth it's bookmarks, at least as implemented in Opera/Presto, that could always cover the niches of speed dial and stash.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2014-12-19, 11:24:50

I do actually think Stash or something like it makes conceptual sense. I often leave pages open that I still want to read sometime later, but I don't want to bookmark them either. Bookmarking them and then deleting the bookmark would be workable, but it'd also be annoying.

Possibly sessions are best for that. Move those pages in a single window and session it under the name "later". (Here I'm speaking as someone who's never seen Stash in action. I really don't think it pioneered anything that wasn't already there before.)

Additionally I made extensive use of Notes, copying stuff that I wanted to read later, and then when I had time I opened it up in a text-editor for comfy reading. User CSS in Opera often did the same trick as a well-configured text-editor.

  The problem was that Opera seemed to think Stash's niche could somehow cover all of bookmarks, when in truth it's bookmarks, at least as implemented in Opera/Presto, that could always cover the niches of speed dial and stash.
Precisely. Speed dial and Stash are fringe functions of bookmarks, not the other way round. Complete bookmarks system includes at least:

- bookmarks manager (with abilities to sort and re-order, edit particular properties)
- bookmarks menu

This can be further enhanced with bookmarks toolbar (a.k.a. personal bar or favorites),    keywords, aliases, speed dial, notes, stashes, and sessions, but these will never replace the core. In my opinion there's a pretty clear distinction between core functions on one hand and enhancements, fringe functions, and spin-offs on the other.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-12-19, 11:52:54
Possibly sessions are best for that. Move those pages in a single window and session it under the name "later". (Here I'm speaking as someone who's never seen Stash in action. I really don't think it pioneered anything that wasn't already there before.)

I think we're talking past each other a bit. A few random article that I want to read later are not a session, while a few articles or pages relating to a particular area of research are indeed a session. Moreover, I do not necessarily dislike using bookmarks for such true sessions, even if they are more temporary than true bookmarks. After all, they are essentially true bookmarks for the duration of my research. It's just that the truest of bookmarks are forever.

Additionally I made extensive use of Notes, copying stuff that I wanted to read later, and then when I had time I opened it up in a text-editor for comfy reading. User CSS in Opera often did the same trick as a well-configured text-editor.

Yes, that's my "stash" as well, insofar as I don't just leave pages open until I get to them. The thing is, only Opera/Blink has a problem with leaving a few dozen unused pages open. Opera/Presto handles it like a champ. To a large extent stash is simply a workaround for a fundamental Chromium issue.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2014-12-19, 12:46:46

I think we're talking past each other a bit. A few random article that I want to read later are not a session, while a few articles or pages relating to a particular area of research are indeed a session.

No, we are not talking past each other. But we seem to be using bookmarks and sessions in a way which is past each other. For me what you describe would both handily be sessions, one called "laterz" and the other "research".


Moreover, I do not necessarily dislike using bookmarks for such true sessions, even if they are more temporary than true bookmarks. After all, they are essentially true bookmarks for the duration of my research.

Yes, I have also used bookmark folders where I mass-bookmarked stuff ("Bookmark all" in Opera) just to get rid of the entire folder in a few days. This is also a way to do the above-described research and laterz stuff.


The thing is, only Opera/Blink has a problem with leaving a few dozen unused pages open. Opera/Presto handles it like a champ. To a large extent stash is simply a workaround for a fundamental Chromium issue.

Sad that Chropera is ditching stash then. And good that I'm not using Chropera or any other Opium.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-12-19, 20:19:23
Sad that Chropera is ditching stash then. And good that I'm not using Chropera or any other Opium.

It's possible that they fixed the issue. :P

Anyway, see http://web.archive.org/web/20140221033609/http://my.opera.com/haavard/blog/2013/07/07/12transition-lotsatabs
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Emdek on 2014-12-19, 20:38:12
So, should I close this ticket (https://github.com/Emdek/otter/issues/197) as wontfix? ;-)
I still don't know how exactly does it work (stash) and since we allow to delay creation of tab contents until really necessary (works best when not taking advantage of MDI, as tab contents will be populated as soon as it will become at least partially visible) we can keep lots of tabs in background.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-12-19, 21:39:08
I don't really understand the request for Discover. Opera Portal and iGoogle may have closed, but there are still plenty of equivalents around if one likes that kind of thing. I suppose a hypothetical feed reader module could also supply a Discover-like way of exploring feeds.

Stash does fill a conceptual hole, but I think it would make more sense to implement the functionality in a different way. For example, although at first I didn't see much point in tab stacks I've grown to use them occasionally for sub-window management because that way you get three levels in the windows panel instead of two, or a bit of the goodness of window management if you're just using the tab bar.

Anyway, if you then imagine something like "suspend page" you could also have "suspend stack". It'd be like closing a tab in the sense that memory and CPU use would be practically zero, except it'd reload when you resumed it by activating it.

NB This is just off the top of my head. It's not something I gave much thought to.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2014-12-19, 21:48:49

Anyway, if you then imagine something like "suspend page" you could also have "suspend stack". It'd be like closing a tab in the sense that memory and CPU use would be practically zero, except it'd reload when you resumed it by activating it.

In what way is "suspend page/stack" different from or better than pin and session? For me Opera always filled all the needs of tabs/bookmark management. In addition to mere tabs and bookmarks with "Bookmark all" there were sessions, pinning, and opportunity for multiple windows and multiple profiles. I never even got to stacking.

Stash and Discover are unnecessary. There's Chropera for those, and even they didn't monetize on it.

I on the other hand just got an idea on which Otter could monetize :)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-12-19, 22:07:05
In what way is "suspend page/stack" different from or better than pin and session?

I don't see what pin has to do with it, but suspend wouldn't be as cumbersome as saving to a read later list, sessions, or whatever. It'd be right there, just the way you want it, just not eating any memory at the moment. It'd be like how some Firefox annoyingly defaults to not loading background tabs until you click on them, except actually under your control.

Anyway, I have no special desire for this functionality depending a bit on memory use. I'm just saying that if some kind of "stash" were implemented, it'd be more elegant to integrate it better with the existing GUI than to make up some kind of separate GUI the way Opera did.

Stash and Discover are unnecessary. There's Chropera for those, and even they didn't monetize on it.

Surely Opera is paid for articles opened through Discover? Why else would it be so restrictive that you can't even add your own feeds to the mix?
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Emdek on 2014-12-19, 22:09:58
In what way is "suspend page/stack" different from or better than pin and session?

It's different, in Otter you can set Browser/DelayRestoringOfBackgroundTabs and not yet shown tabs (currently applies only to tabs restored from session, we could turn it into enumeration and allow to apply takt also to tabs opened in background in current session) will consume only minimal resources (title, history etc.) as it won't create WebWidget until needed.
This can also apply to pinned tabs but his is separate concept, targeting resource usage (memory, CPU and network).
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2014-12-19, 22:14:53

Stash and Discover are unnecessary. There's Chropera for those, and even they didn't monetize on it.

Surely Opera is paid for articles opened through Discover? Why else would it be so restrictive that you can't even add your own feeds to the mix?

That was the plan, yes, that they would get money this way. Except that who would use restrictive features? Earlier Opera tried to make money, among other things, with bookmarks (remember the pre-set bookmarks like Yahoo and Amazon in Opera?) and they ended up with the definitive fact that "nobody uses bookmarks" :D
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2014-12-19, 22:17:33

In what way is "suspend page/stack" different from or better than pin and session?

It's different, in Otter you can set Browser/DelayRestoringOfBackgroundTabs and not yet shown tabs (currently applies only to tabs restored from session, we could turn it into enumeration and allow to apply takt also to tabs opened in background in current session) will consume only minimal resources (title, history etc.) as it won't create WebWidget until needed.
This can also apply to pinned tabs but his is separate concept, targeting resource usage (memory, CPU and network).

Okay. Now I get it, I think. And I think taking a look at Otter's resource usage is a must. I will some day reveal why.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-12-24, 16:02:37
Ruari shares a possible method for installing Opera 12 and 26+ side by side: http://ruario.ghost.io/2014/12/23/installing-12-16-alongside-modern-opera/
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2015-02-05, 17:20:36
Opera 28 marks the return of sync but not nicknames.

http://blogs.opera.com/desktop/2015/02/opera-28-beta-bookmark-syncing/
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ultraviolet on 2015-02-06, 13:42:56
As primarily a non-techy user i think the developers are to slow in the updates, since new opera 15 til now with version 28 i dont SEE much of a improvement, bookmarks are back and so is syncing: normal basic things for a browser in this day and age, plus some sites still dont fully work.

Their going to have to get act together soon or everyone who onced loved there old browser is going to move on.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2015-02-20, 11:57:13
The latest update fixes up the image display to be the same as in Vivaldi, which is arguably still slightly behind what you get in Otter and Opera/Presto: http://blogs.opera.com/desktop/2015/02/centered-images-opera-developer-29-0-1781-0/
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2015-03-06, 15:45:21
Opera adds a sidebar and (more easily) customizable keyboard shortcuts. Note that shortcuts have no sense of input context like in Opera/Presto.

http://blogs.opera.com/desktop/2015/03/sidebar-extensions-speed-dial-syncing-customizable-shortcuts-opera-developer-29/
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Emdek on 2015-03-07, 19:15:38
Quote
Your Speed Dial is now a folder within bookmarks, resulting in various improvements:

Uhm, I was planning to do it that way but later I've got doubtful due to extensions which could be added there instead of bookmarks. I wonder how they solved that issue.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2015-03-07, 19:58:02
Is there such a thing as an Opera/Blink speed dial extension that doesn't link to an actual page in some manner? Or to put it a different way, can they generate their own page?
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Emdek on 2015-03-07, 20:02:17
@Frenzie, I would need to investigate it, I can only assume that they can bundle own HTML file as part of extension.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2015-03-07, 20:27:06
Well sure, there's an HTML file used to generate the icon (or so I assume). But all of the ones I've seen do open an actual URL when you click on them. I just wonder if there are any that are more like widgets/unite. ;)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2015-03-15, 09:24:18
Either I'm not using the right search terms (as if...) or Opera Mobile Classic has been removed from Google Play. Get it here.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2015-03-16, 20:05:31
Quote from: https://dev.opera.com/blog/opera-mini-server-upgrade/
We've upgraded our Opera Mini servers to a new version of our Presto rendering engine. This means that CSS Flexbox and layouts depending on rem units will now display as you expect.

Flexbox and rem are supported in Opera 12.1x, as you'll also find out if you read on.
Quote
Previously, the Opera Mini clusters were running a version of Opera Presto analogous to the 11 series of Desktop. This has been upgraded to a version analogous to Desktop 12, with several features disabled, mostly because of architectural constraints; for example:
Title: Another major layoff at Opera
Post by: ersi on 2015-04-22, 16:47:45
Opera Software kutter 70 jobber (https://www.dn.no/nyheter/finans/2015/04/20/2040/Opera-Software/opera-software-kutter-70-jobber)

Ramūnas Monkevičius says (https://twitter.com/ramunas_m/status/590241532613156864), "End of an era. Opera software sacks 70 employees. Desktop team in Oslo is pretty much disbanded."
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: jax on 2015-04-22, 18:29:59
Yes. Poland is evidently cheaper.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2015-04-24, 16:24:38
Opera posted an article about how they make Chromium better: https://dev.opera.com/blog/reducing-memory-use/
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2015-04-24, 16:45:42

Opera posted an article about how they make Chromium better: https://dev.opera.com/blog/reducing-memory-use/

Bruce Lawson? The guy who said the move to Blink would be "only under the hood" and unnoticeable to users? And who said that after layoffs they have more developers than ever? Might be an interesting read.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Shandra on 2015-05-25, 20:17:25
 :doh:  :spock:   :cheers:  :drunk:  :faint:
:pirate: "only under the hood" - I think I missed that one - and funny as it may sound now, i think it would have gained (+/-) me some insanity(Cthulhu)/empathy(cyberpunk)/whatsoever(choseUownRPG) points if I wouldn't  :coffee:
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: krake on 2015-05-26, 15:45:19
Might be an interesting read.

Indeed.
Reducing Blink's memory footprint by 5-6 MB will make it rock on older computers - according to Bruce Lawson at least.  :jester:
Another informative highlight of the article are the rainforests in Poland.  :sst:
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: jax on 2015-05-26, 20:15:13

Bruce Lawson? The guy who said the move to Blink would be "only under the hood" and unnoticeable to users? And who said that after layoffs they have more developers than ever? Might be an interesting read.


To be fair, that is mostly correct and technically correct respectively. The UI/UX is more important than the engine, and until the latest layoffs the total number of developers may have been increasing, but the number of developers in Norway and Sweden has diminshed. The number of employees is increasing:

2000: 25→100
2008: ≈500
2013: ≈1000
2015: ≈1500

But the proportion of developers I believe has fallen significantly (and the browser is getting less significant as well).
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-06-14, 16:26:22
I still use the 12.16, the end of an era.
Sometimes, like this one, I simply prefer to use the 30, enough for what I want browsers to do these days.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2015-06-14, 19:40:48
I find myself using Opera/Blink as well, simply because it is sometimes superior to Firefox and for the moment easier to get to work than Otter.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2015-07-24, 12:32:24
Ruari is now working for Vivaldi. I don't keep a close eye on Twitter or Vivaldi (https://vivaldi.net/blogs/teamblog/item/41-snapshot-1-0-228-3-with-chromeless-ui), so I hadn't noticed yet.

Quote from: http://ruario.ghost.io/2015/07/22/scripts-for-vivaldi-fans-running-mac-and-linux/
Anyone following my twitter account or the Vivaldi team blog has probably worked out that I have left Opera and started working for Vivaldi. If you missed the news, the short version is that Opera shutdown the Oslo office working on the desktop browser. Most people were laid off. A small handful were offered alternative jobs. Even amongst those of us who were offered a new position -- I was one of them -- several have subsequently quit of their own accord.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2015-07-24, 13:51:16

[...] Vivaldi (https://vivaldi.net/blogs/teamblog/item/41-snapshot-1-0-228-3-with-chromeless-ui) [...]

Chromeless UI in Vivaldi? This is what Opera's True Detach ingeniously provided. If/When Otter implements true detach, it will be unbeatable.

I have been trying my best to replicate the true detach experience with small vim-like browsers. It kinda works, but it's of course much comfier to be able to switch all toolbars on-off in your main browser.

Since Vivaldi doesn't adopt proper decorations from the desktop environment, the feature cannot work quite the way it used to in Opera, and not the way I use it.

The way I use it is to set up, in a GUI-less browser, a small frame with the content I need to keep an eye on, and to otherwise work in a maximised editor window. So, the small frame must be set to the top layer above other windows. It's more convenient to do this when the frame has decorations proper to the desktop environment, so you get the feedback that (a) it's a window, not a nasty visual tear on the screen, (b) it's indeed set above other windows, assigned to all workspaces, or whatever else you can/want to set&see on the titlebar. Plus quick minimising via the titlebar.

It's all on the titlebar. Cannot live without it.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: d4rkn1ght on 2015-07-24, 15:34:08

Ruari is now working for Vivaldi. I don't keep a close eye on Twitter or Vivaldi (https://vivaldi.net/blogs/teamblog/item/41-snapshot-1-0-228-3-with-chromeless-ui), so I hadn't noticed yet.


How many old Opera employees are left now? :beard:
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: jax on 2015-07-24, 19:00:55
It used to be that the people I knew that were Opera employees and  ex-employees were evenly matched but now the Opera remainers are in a distinct minority. Hiring and firing sprees were not unheard of, but had sound reasons,  the company was near-broke at the firing line. The sack of Oslo happened at a time of record profit. I don't think the remaining veterans are particularly loyal to the company anymore.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2015-07-24, 19:57:58

How many old Opera employees are left now? :beard:

We have the Jon smiley, but we don't have :norris: ?
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2015-07-25, 06:42:12
I think it was removed from My Opera at least a year or two before it closed.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2015-08-04, 10:09:00
Bruce Lawson responds to a recent post by ppk.
https://dev.opera.com/blog/on-a-moratorium-on-new-browser-features/
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2015-08-10, 23:02:15
And so it ended...
Quote from: Computerworld.com, http://www.computerworld.com/article/2968277/web-browsers/opera-browser-maker-up-for-sale.html
Directors of Norwegian browser maker Opera Software said that they were considering selling the company and had hired bankers to help them explore options after the firm missed a second-quarter revenue forecast.

[...]

On mobile, Opera's browsers, including its Opera Mini -- which years ago was a stalwart on feature phones -- had a share of around 6%, far below either Safari on iOS (with a 42.4% share) and Google's Chrome on on Android (33.2%).
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: krake on 2015-08-11, 07:57:46
There were several rumors in the past but this time it seems to be for real.
Lars Boilesen accomplished the mission he was hired for.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2015-08-20, 09:24:02
Opera celebrates 20 years.

http://blogs.opera.com/news/2015/08/20-years-of-more-happy-anniversary-opera/
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-08-20, 09:43:04
And so it ended...

The reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated... well, it seems not.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2015-10-27, 09:47:33
Opera is finally reintroducing the idea of installable web apps.

https://dev.opera.com/articles/installable-web-apps/
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2015-11-26, 09:45:12
Opera Link will cease operations. I just received the following e-mail:

Quote
It's time to say goodbye to our old friend Opera Link.

In March, we introduced a new way to sync data in the latest versions of Opera for computers, Android, and iOS. The shift to our new syncing service allowed us to streamline and update the types of browsing data you can sync across your computers, phones and tablets.

**Opera Link will close in December 2015.**

At that time, you will no longer be able to synchronize your browsing data using the Opera Link service. Also, you will no longer be able to access your data through the Opera Link web interface at link.opera.com.

December brings the end of Opera Link, but not the end of syncing your data using your favorite browser. Download the new Opera, and, depending on your devices, you can sync your bookmarks, Speed Dials, open tabs, browsing history, settings and passwords.

Making the switch is easy:

1. Navigate to www.opera.com to download and install a new Opera browser.

2. Use your Opera Link username and password to sign into the new sync service, or set up a new account entirely. You can read more about how at www.opera.com/help/account#signIn.

3. After you've registered your new account, use our migration tool to move your old Opera Link bookmarks to your new browser. You can find the tool at sync.opera.com/web/.

If you can not upgrade to the new browser or do not wish to, your local data will remain on your machine but will not update on the Opera Link server. We recommend that you migrate your bookmarks, so you can still access them through our new service's web interface. You can find the migration tool at sync.opera.com/web/.

We hope you enjoy the updated set of syncing services offered in our newest generation of browsers.

Thanks for choosing Opera,
The Sync team


I migrated, but I don't think it copied over my nicknames nor did it seem to do anything with my numerous search engines. Which is weird, because Opera/Blink did pick up on search engines locally... or at least Opera Mini did. Suffice it to say I still find Opera Sync very disappointing compared to Link.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: d4rkn1ght on 2015-11-26, 12:54:13
Wow! They are still dismantling old features from the Presto days. :yikes:
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Barulheira on 2015-11-26, 16:15:32
... which I still use a lot.
I received that, too. I was confident that I could always recover my Opera preferences by Link after successive system reinstalls. But now I'll have to keep them saved somewhere else.  :(
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2015-11-26, 19:38:42
I wish they'd been a little bit more specific about the date. Does "in December" mean in a few days or does it mean in a month?
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-11-28, 13:26:44
Opera's history is a sad one. What a wonderful browser they had once and a fantastic community.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: jax on 2016-02-10, 08:30:42
Chinese investors snap up Norwegian internet firm (http://www.ft.com/fastft/2016/02/10/chinese-investors-snap-up-norwegian-internet-firm/)
Quote
A Chinese investment firm is to buy Norwegian company Opera Software in a deal worth $1.2bn.

Golden Brick Silk Road, a Chinese investment fund, is leading a consortium composed of Chinese internet firms Kunlun and Qihoo, to buy Oslo-headquartered Opera. They have offered NKr71 per Opera share, a premium of around 53 per cent to Opera's closing price on February 4, just before reports of a takeover emerged.

Opera specialises in providing services for apps and web browsers. It said its board has "unanimously decided to recommend to its shareholders to accept the Offer" from Golden Brick.

Opera chief executive Lars Boilesen said:

There is strong strategic and industrial logic to the acquisition of Opera by the Consortium. We believe that the Consortium, with its breadth of expertise and strong market position in emerging markets, will be a strong owner of Opera. The Consortium's ownership will strengthen Opera's position to serve our users and partners with even greater innovation, and to accelerate our plans of expansion and growth.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-02-10, 11:18:40
Well, that's interesting.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: d4rkn1ght on 2016-02-10, 12:32:09
Opera was a great browser, but I think the minute they started striping their unique features, they lost their soul and what they where all about. :( I hope the new owners can see how innovating and unique Opera was.

Here's a Facebok message from Jon (https://www.facebook.com/vivaldi.browser/videos/556185867875080).
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: jax on 2016-02-10, 13:23:28
Or on a somewhat more open platform than Facebook:




360 is among my kill-on-sight brand of software, first thing I remove on a machine. They make Norton look friendly and clean in comparison.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-02-16, 20:43:03
Opera 12 just received an update to version 12.18, but only on Windows so far.

http://www.opera.com/blogs/security/2016/02/opera-12-and-opera-mail-security-update/
Quote
We realize that those of you on old operating systems like Windows XP SP1 and older are left without much choice beyond using our Presto-based browser.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-03-24, 16:54:44
I was given the impression that Opera Link had shut down (https://thedndsanctuary.eu/index.php?topic=13.msg48823#msg48823), but I just noticed this in my Opera/Presto.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-04-14, 18:24:32
New Opera beta reintroduces one of the uses of <9.2 detach.

Quote from: http://www.opera.com/blogs/desktop/2016/04/opera-beta-update-video-pop/
This feature allows you to shift your video frame to the side of your screen, so that you can truly multitask: browse the comments, look for something in another tab or even prepare a presentation without missing out on the video action. Drag and toss your video around the screen, place it wherever you like, and close it immediately should the need arise.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2016-04-14, 18:43:47
No, it's not the good old True detach. It's more like the Android 5 (Lollipop) style floating thingie. The resemblance to True detach is there, but not direct. In True detach you could detach absolutely any tab.

Either way, I so very much hoped Otter could beat them to this feature...
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-04-14, 18:46:52
I said one of the uses of detach. ;) Although for this particular use, it actually works better.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2016-04-14, 18:58:46
There is just one purpose to True detach: Create a small floating frameless tab with content that you recurrently get back to either for reference or as entertaining background noise. Well, I also used to true-detach the mail composer so I could easily copy contents from webpage tabs and whatever other windows. What more uses do you know to True detach?
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-04-14, 19:12:36
I also often used it for taking screenshots with Alt + Print Screen.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2016-04-14, 19:18:10
Fantastic. So, there are uses to True detach. This Chropera's invention is just a video popout. To their credit, they named it appropriately.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-04-18, 19:43:11
I hadn't seen this yet, but Opera is finally fixing up their stupid whatever it's called useless news thingy.[1]
http://www.opera.com/blogs/desktop/2016/04/first-opera-developer-38/
Quote
Are you tired of browsing multiple portals and sites?
Imagine news that's personalized and fit your needs - you decide what is shown. You can pick your favorite sites from the over 8,000 sources we offer. Your fresh news is instantly updated and always handy. New articles that appear are bigger to show you what's important. You can browse from categories for content sources based in different countries. This can be really helpful for those of you who like traveling. If you're interested in cricket, you won't have to comb through all the sports articles. We'll deliver only the stuff from your favourite website, based on the sources you've selected. You can choose the sources you trust. How does that sound?
Their Discover thing might've been okay-ish if only there were an easy way to disable a particular news source as opposed to only offering categories. Sounds like this might be it. NB I mean on my cellphone. On my desktop I'll obviously continue not using it.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2016-05-08, 12:51:36
When you try to play e.g. Youtube on Opera Mini on Android, it offers the video popout - just like Android Video and Youtube apps themselves have been doing for some time. I guess this is how the video popout found its way to desktop Chropera.

It's not True detach. It's video popout as seen on Android.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-05-11, 09:05:29
Their Discover thing might've been okay-ish if only there were an easy way to disable a particular news source as opposed to only offering categories. Sounds like this might be it.
Right and if you could customize the categories better. For instance, I can choose "Entertainment" or "Arts" , but can't create my own category "Books and Literature" or "Writing." 
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-05-11, 09:20:18
Sure, but then you're just going into regular feed reader territory. (Which is better anyway, obviously.) What I mean is simply something like, "okay, I've 'discovered' HLN.be and I never want to see it again because it's awful".
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-05-19, 14:37:07
http://www.opera.com/blogs/desktop/2016/05/introducing-smarter-personal-news-opera/

More on the better discover feature.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: jax on 2016-05-24, 15:40:26
A Chinese investment firm is to buy Norwegian company Opera Software in a deal worth $1.2bn.

The bid needed 90% acceptance (the level at which the remaining <10% shares can be compulsory aquired). In the initial offer period they only got 75%, and the period was extended to today. This morning they had 84%, and 75 minutes before the offer closed they had 89%. Now the offer has ended an hour ago.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: jax on 2016-05-25, 07:36:53
Voluntary offer - preliminary results (http://www.newsweb.no/newsweb/search.do?messageId=402706)

Oslo and Beijing, 25th May 2016 - Reference is made to 
the stock exchange announcement made on 10th February
2016 on the agreement reached between Opera Software
ASA ("Opera" or the "Company") and Golden Brick Silk
Road (Shenzhen) Equity Investment Fund II LLP ("Golden
Brick"), the general partner of which is Golden Brick
Silk Road Fund Management (Shenzhen) LLP and the
limited partners of which are Beijing Kunlun Tech Co.
Ltd., Qihoo 360 Software (Beijing) Co. Ltd., and
Yonglian (Yinchuan) Investment Co., Ltd. (collectively
the "Consortium"), regarding a recommended voluntary
cash offer for 100% of the shares of Opera at an offer
price of NOK 71 per share (the "Offer"). Reference is
further made to the announcement made on 15th March
2016 in which it was announced that Golden Brick,
through its indirectly wholly owned subsidiary Kunqi
(the "Offeror"), had launched the Offer pursuant to an
offer document dated 14th March 2016 (the "Offer
Document").

The offer period for the Offer expired at 16:30 (CET)
on 24th May 2016. The preliminary result, which is
subject to confirmation and may be adjusted, is that
the Offeror has received acceptances of the Offer for
in total 132,911,316 shares in the Company
representing approximately 90.6% of the outstanding
share capital and 90.9% of the votes in the Company.
The final result will be published as soon as it is
available.

The preliminary result of the Offer indicates that the
minimum acceptance condition set out in section 4.3
(a) of the Offer Document has been met.

Except for the approximately 132,911,316 shares in the
Company tendered in acceptance of the Offer, the
Offeror and its related parties do not hold any shares
or rights to shares in the Company.

The remaining conditions for completion of the Offer
are set out in section 4.3. (Conditions for completion
of the Offer) of the Offer Document. As set forth
therein, the Offeror will issue a notification through
the Oslo Stock Exchange as soon as each of the
remaining conditions for completion of the Offer has
been met, waived or failed to be met.


Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-05-25, 09:24:29
Golden Brick Silk Road?
Considering Silk Road to be that deep web market place closed some time ago for selling drugs, weapons and the such, the buyers really got an interesting name.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2016-05-25, 10:15:26
Not just silk road, but also gold brick.
Quote from: Google
gold brick
USinformal
noun
noun: gold brick; plural noun: gold bricks; noun: goldbrick; plural noun: goldbricks

    1.
    a thing that looks valuable but is in fact worthless.
        a con man.
        noun: goldbricker; plural noun: goldbrickers
        a lazy person.
        "hardworking Amos and goldbrick Andy"
 
verb
    1.
    invent excuses to avoid a task; shirk.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-05-25, 11:58:36
Good for some shareholders, I suppose.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: jax on 2016-05-25, 20:22:50
Moderately. The fact that it was so hard to get 90%, even when at the bidding they had the support of 60%, shows that the share holders were not so enthusiastic.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-05-25, 21:25:14
Opera, another case of Northern European sucess. Not even all the Norwegian oil was enough.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: krake on 2016-07-19, 14:28:26
Chinese takeover of Norway's Opera fails, alternative proposed (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-opera-software-m-a-china-idUSKCN0ZY0CA)
Quote
The deal needed a green light from the United States and China, and one firm in the Chinese consortium said U.S. privacy concerns would have led to an investigation into some of Opera's products that risked delaying the acquisition for up to a year.
Nice to see how the US worries about our privacy.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2016-07-19, 15:09:16
What? Opera is still not dead? (Opera Mini on Android is nicely usable though. I don't object if it lasts a little longer.)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-07-19, 17:31:17
I don't know how their browser income is going (i.e., searches from the browser and sponsored bookmarks/Discover stuff) nor am I terribly interested to look at their annual statement, but if nothing else I imagine their ad business is doing just fine.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-07-20, 12:35:05
Glancing over there, I noticed that Opera recently added RSS feeds. When did they first do that, about 10 years ago? :P

http://www.opera.com/blogs/desktop/2016/07/opera-developer-40-0-2296-0-update/
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Barulheira on 2016-07-20, 17:12:50
Then, they had an inbox that could manage mail messages as well as news feeds.
No hope that it will come back to Opera anyway. I put some hope on Otter, though.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: jax on 2016-07-21, 13:14:28
Chinese takeover of Norway's Opera fails, alternative proposed (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-opera-software-m-a-china-idUSKCN0ZY0CA)
Nice to see how the US worries about our privacy.  :rolleyes:

There are alternative explanations, Financial Times has another: Opera Software deal crumbles after China hold-up (https://next.ft.com/content/b509fb08-4cef-11e6-88c5-db83e98a590a). I suspect that was more of a deal-breaker. As I'm not close, can't say what actually happened, to which degree USA, China, or both were involved. 

The outcome is worst of both worlds as I see it, the "less profitable" pieces, namely the browser, still goes to a consortium with an uninspiring record. I as a shareholder lose a good chunk of money, as the
owner of "the parts of the company that are growing the fastest", of which I care little, i.e. ads and Opera TV: Opera Software sale failed on high note (http://www.newsinenglish.no/2016/07/19/opera-software-sale-failed-on-high-note/)

Opera Software ASA was restructured a couple years back, the suspicion was that they prepared for a piecemeal sale back then. That's probably still on the agenda.

Opera Software's $1.2 Billion Takeover by a Chinese Group Has Failed (http://fortune.com/2016/07/18/chinese-takeover-opera-software-failed/)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-11-08, 17:03:24
Newly sold Opera (see here (http://www.newsweb.no/newsweb/search.do?messageId=412755)) reintroduced Opera's behavior where you can select text in links: http://www.opera.com/blogs/desktop/2016/11/opera-43-developer/
Quote
O12 like links selection

We want to bring back the O12 link selection:

    horizontal mouse movements: select text
    vertical mouse movements: drag link
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2016-11-08, 18:33:11
And also,
Quote from: http://www.opera.com/blogs/desktop/2016/11/opera-43-developer/
Address bar speculative prerenderer

So if you start the browser typing "nyt.com" every time, it will eventually learn that and load New York Times in the background. Also when you search for something, it will load the results likely to be clicked, in the background.
Woohoo what a joy! Wonder why they hadn't made it already. Perhaps they had made it, but they are admitting it only now.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: jax on 2016-11-09, 14:41:17
It is public now, if only in Norwegian (http://www.digi.no/artikler/opera-sier-opp-mange-ansatte-og-hardest-gar-det-ut-over-oslo-kontoret/364077). In the run-up to the Chinese takeover there has been a significant bloodletting. Roughly a third of the Chinese browser-making company is gone.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2017-01-12, 16:08:08
Opera came out with something funky.

http://www.opera.com/blogs/desktop/2017/01/opera-neon-concept-browser/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cqyv1Fh5bCs

Can't be bothered to boot into Windows to try it out though.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: RRR13 on 2017-01-15, 01:42:11
Neon is crazy cool. Posting from it right now.
Not something anyone missing Opera Presto would ever use as a main browser, but really cool nonetheless.

But that's not why I came here.
I came here to share this: http://boards.4chan.org/g/thread/58469437/well  :o
The original repository has been taken down from Github, together with a fork.
But there are links allover that thread to places where you can get the code.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2017-01-15, 08:23:40
Quote
>OTTER BROWSER MASTER RACE REPORTING IN
:lol:

You'd almost wonder if it's some kind of fake leak of source code that has been written off as a loss anyway, in order to generate publicity.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2017-01-18, 20:16:12
Opera responds to the leak:

Quote from: http://www.opera.com/blogs/security/2017/01/legacy-opera-presto-source-code-appearance-online-sharing-sites/
Opera recently became aware that source code from our legacy browser engine, Presto, has appeared in some online code and file sharing sites. This code is the property of Opera Software and has been published illegally and without our permission. Opera has taken legal steps to have the source code removed from these sites.

The snapshot of Presto engine code that has been published was used in Opera's browsers up until 2013. This code is not the complete source code for a modern web browser and has not been maintained for several years.

[...]

Modern is debatable... I mean, it's not that old.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: krake on 2017-01-19, 08:36:54
Quote from: http://www.opera.com/blogs/security/2017/01/legacy-opera-presto-source-code-appearance-online-sharing-sites/
The snapshot of Presto engine code that has been published was used in Opera's browsers up until 2013.

Hei, this is the source of the browser I'm still using and posting with now. :)
AFAIK in 2013 the developement of Opera Presto has been stopped.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2017-03-18, 13:55:29
I forgot to mention this, but since about a week ago normalcy has returned to Opera Mobile's speed dial behavior.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2017-06-22, 11:21:23
Back in 2008 (http://fransdejonge.com/2008/10/svg-favicons-are-not-supported-yet/) I complained that SVG favicons weren't supported. A few years later Opera (Presto!) and Firefox implemented it. Now, a mere decade later, Opera finally fixed another of the many engine regressions that came with Blink.

Quote from:
https://dev.opera.com/blog/opera-46/
SVG favicons

This was actually added in Opera 44, but we missed to write about it!

This might still be a bit rough in the edges, but in general SVG favicons should now work in Opera! (Not yet in Chromium.) To see this in action, check some of the WHATWG standards which use SVG favicons. Firefox also supports SVG favicons, and it was also supported in Presto-based Opera 12.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2017-06-22, 13:39:04
In related news, another Opera Presto feature was added (albeit one I'm less concerned about).

http://blogs.opera.com/desktop/2017/06/opera-46-goes-final-more-quality-and-operas-first-tv-ad/
Quote
Opera now supports APNGs, or animated PNG files. These are similar to your regular GIFs, but smaller. APNG also supports 24-bit images and 8-bit transparency which help them maintain quality. This format has become quite popular recently, particularly since Apple adopted the APNG file format for iOS 10 iMessage apps. It's worth noting that APNG was also supported in Presto.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2017-07-17, 16:29:02
Did Opera Mini just stop supporting RSS feeds ???
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2017-07-17, 16:32:36
I don't really use it anymore. What do you mean by "support"? Just loading a link like this (http://fransdejonge.com/feed/)? Indeed I get a "client doesn't support feeds". It stands to reason that it would show something similar to Opera 12 instead but I don't remember.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Barulheira on 2017-07-17, 16:38:31
It works fine in Opera 12.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2017-07-17, 17:09:12
What do you mean by "support"? Just loading a link like this (http://fransdejonge.com/feed/)? Indeed I get a "client doesn't support feeds".
Yes, this is what I mean. Most RSS feeds give this error, some display the raw code, but up to recently Mini used to render them like old Opera did. I have a few RSS links bookmarked like this.

No good reason to use Mini either anymore. What next?
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2017-07-17, 18:22:49
After quickly trying some half a dozen apps, I guess this one does RSS best https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.tughi.aggregator
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2017-07-17, 19:15:21
Did you also check on F-Droid, e.g., https://f-droid.org/packages/com.nononsenseapps.feeder/ ?

I use https://github.com/Alkarex/EasyRSS (also see https://f-droid.org/packages/org.freshrss.easyrss/) but that's mainly because it syncs with FreshRSS. Although I think I mostly just use FreshRSS in the browser whenever I have the choice.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2017-07-17, 21:30:15
I only checked what's there in Google Play store. There seem to be a couple of apps by the name Easy RSS at Play store, but I doubt they are the same thing as your suggestion.

F-Droid Feeder looks good. It's better than Aggregator in that it shows two lines of preview in the list of feed items, but Aggregator is better in that it has its own inbuilt rendering engine for the full webview. And Aggregator has a combined list for all feeds together, while Feeder does not. I still have a bias for Aggregator.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Belfrager on 2017-08-25, 23:12:30
Opera 45 has a VPN, that's interesting. Even more because it also has an extension for torrents.
Torrents trough VPN is a good thing these days.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2017-08-26, 15:24:21
Opera 45 has a VPN, that's interesting. Even more because it also has an extension for torrents.
Torrents trough VPN is a good thing these days.
For Android, there's been a distinct Opera VPN app for a while now https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.opera.vpn
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2017-08-26, 18:19:43
Technically Opera Turbo has always functioned as a VPNSOCKS proxy but the advertised use case was saving data. I'll have to check if this explains the fact that I couldn't find it anymore.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: krake on 2017-08-26, 23:11:30
Opera 45 has a VPN, that's interesting. Even more because it also has an extension for torrents.
Their "Turbo" in the past was a transparent proxy which leaked your IP.
Torrents trough VPN is a good thing these days.
Not necessary if you use them through Opera's VPN service.
Wonder if and how it leaks your IP.

- Edit -
After searching the Internet for a few minutes:
Block Opera VPN from leaking your IP address (https://www.ghacks.net/2016/04/23/block-opera-vpn-from-leaking-your-ip-address/)
Opera VPN behind the curtains is just a proxy, here's how it works (https://gist.github.com/spaze/558b7c4cd81afa7c857381254ae7bd10)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2017-08-27, 06:23:18
Their "Turbo" in the past was a transparent proxy which leaked your IP.
You can talk about leaking if you expect it to hide your IP. But a transparent proxy is not meant to hide your IP. As far as I know, VPN is also not directly meant to hide your IP.

Anyway, hiding or changing your IP is easy: Just connect to your neighbour's wifi - or any other available wifi out there. What seems more relevant to me is hiding your browser fingerprint and MAC address, when you are paranoid to the level that you are.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2017-08-27, 07:42:52
I thought VPN was just marketing speech for SOCKS proxy,[1] or can you actually use those "VPNs" to make all of your devices think they're on the same local network?

Their "Turbo" in the past was a transparent proxy which leaked your IP.
[...]
After searching the Internet for a few minutes:
Block Opera VPN from leaking your IP address
That's just a bug in an early dev build. The important thing is whether it was fixed by the time it reached beta, let alone release. From a quick test on https://www.perfect-privacy.com/webrtc-leaktest/ (via your link) it leaks my local IP address without the secure proxy and doesn't when I disable it. Then again, maybe the test is broken because it never shows my public IP address in the test itself even though it's proudly displaying my current IP (or the proxy's IP when enabled) in the top left corner... In any case, it looks like the bug was fixed.
But I apologize for copying the mindless marketing blather without much thought.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Belfrager on 2017-08-27, 11:31:39
- Edit -
After searching the Internet for a few minutes:
Block Opera VPN from leaking your IP address (https://www.ghacks.net/2016/04/23/block-opera-vpn-from-leaking-your-ip-address/)
Opera VPN behind the curtains is just a proxy, here's how it works (https://gist.github.com/spaze/558b7c4cd81afa7c857381254ae7bd10)
I don't know, performing that  WebRTC leak check the only thing the test shows is:
IPv4: 185.137.17.29
DNS: 185.137.17.29
Country: Netherlands
City: Amsterdam

I like Amsterdam but I'm not there. :)
The test disconnects the VPN connection but is not able to go forward more than the above IP. Repeating the test the VPN connection connects and the test blocks itself again. Always in Amsterdam.

Anyway I'm not an expert at these things.


Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: krake on 2017-08-27, 12:47:52
I thought VPN was just marketing speech for SOCKS proxy
You were close to it anyway, except it's HTTPS not SOCKS.
can you actually use those "VPNs" to make all of your devices think they're on the same local network?
Nope.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: krake on 2017-08-27, 12:57:13
You can talk about leaking if you expect it to hide your IP.
Why do you think that I was using the term "transparent"?
But a transparent proxy is not meant to hide your IP. As far as I know
A transparent proxy is by definition leaking your IP.
(X-Forwarded-For: ...)
Some Opera users thought that they can surf anonymously through Turbo. ;)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: krake on 2017-08-27, 13:06:46
I don't know, performing that  WebRTC leak check the only thing the test shows is:
IPv4: 185.137.17.29
DNS: 185.137.17.29
Country: Netherlands
City: Amsterdam
Enjoy your virtual trip to Amsterdam.
At least this Chinese browser can offer something you seem to enjoy.  :)

The bad news at last - Opera VPN doesn't allow torrenting.

Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2017-08-27, 15:18:48
Why do you think that I was using the term "transparent"?
My quibble is rather: Why were you using the term "leak"? A leak concerns only secret or hidden information, but transparent proxies are not trying to hide. Transparent proxies let through as intended.

A sieve does not leak water. It's not meant to hold water in the first place. A broken pot or cup may leak.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: krake on 2017-08-27, 17:01:14
Why do you think that I was using the term "transparent"?
My quibble is rather: Why were you using the term "leak"?
Because not everybody knows or is sure of what a transparent proxy is.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Belfrager on 2017-08-27, 17:18:48
The bad news at last - Opera VPN doesn't allow torrenting.
No? and what's the problem? I just want the VPN to reach seedr (https://www.seedr.cc) (that has an extension to the Opera browser) et voilà - seedr does the torrent part and I get the result through the VPN. Request and result both encrypted.

Maybe there's something I'm not considering, have to think a little more about it.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2017-08-27, 17:33:59
You were close to it anyway, except it's HTTPS not SOCKS.
I've never heard of an HTTPS proxy, only an HTTPS proxy over SOCKS? But no matter how it works, if you can only use a real VPN as a proxy in any meaningful way then the technical distinction is moot.

Over a decade ago I used an app called Hamachi for "LAN" gaming with friends elsewhere in the city. It was the Opera Unite of VPNs. Hamachi still exists, but in a severely more limited form. There's also a free alternative called Wippiein (http://www.wippien.com/) but I'm not sure if that's still supported.

Why do you think that I was using the term "transparent"?
My quibble is rather: Why were you using the term "leak"?
Because not everybody knows or is sure of what a transparent proxy is.
What I meant when I said Opera Turbo has always functioned as a "VPN" is simply that it secures the endpoint. The reason people want a "VPN" on their cellphone is so they can browse on free public wifis without worrying about leaking information to anyone with an antenna. I don't think they care too much about anonimizing. Perhaps it's nerdview, but I think it's self-evident that a VPN (whether real or just a proxy) only anonymizes by accident unless it's an explicit design goal.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: krake on 2017-08-27, 18:17:55
I've never heard of an HTTPS proxy,
SSL (HTTPS) Proxy
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2017-08-27, 20:56:41
Hm, doesn't really sound like it'd give me anything over a simple SSH tunnel (=SOCKS). https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/61334/does-an-https-proxy-encrypt-traffic-between-proxy-client-and-server-for-http-req/61336#61336
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2017-09-10, 04:50:58
Did I see correctly? The latest update of Opera Mini has introduced whole-screen ads. I think I was just welcomed by one when I switched to Opera Mini from locked screen.

What I am sure of is that the previous update made an addition to my bookmarks. This thing is begging me to uninstall itself.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2017-09-10, 06:23:29
It doesn't feel all that mini anymore with all of the news and ads that load on the home page. Maybe it's nice enough not to do that when not on wifi. All of the animations on the addressbar and tab switcher are too freaking slow, even though they got it more or less right in Opera Mobile... But I haven't seen any fullscreen ads.

Edit:
Quote
Opera Cricket - the fastest way to stay up-to-date on cricket. [...] * Only in India.
Um, okay then.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2017-09-10, 06:54:18
When Opera Mini was a Java app (I still have it on SE W200 (http://www.gsmarena.com/sony_ericsson_w200-1824.php)), animations were introduced at some point (version 3 or thereabouts) and they were also the first thing I turned off. The Android version does not seem to offer a way to turn animations off.

They have an adblock, but at the same time the app is adware. Crazy world we are living in. Well, I guess I have too many browsers on my current phone anyway, and I should be using more often those that permit scrolling with the side key (volume key/button).

This side-key scrolling should be a given on every browsing and reading app for handhelds. Opera Mini used to make excellent use of hardware buttons. Not so for a long while now.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2017-09-10, 08:12:43
I've had three Sony Ericsson phones before my current ASUS: a T630 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Ericsson_T630), an S500i (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Ericsson_S500), and an Xperia ray (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Ericsson_Xperia_ray). I've had Opera Mini on them since '05.

This side-key scrolling should be a given on every browsing and reading app for handhelds. Opera Mini used to make excellent use of hardware buttons. Not so for a long while now.
CyanogenMod has become worse through the years. Not entirely their fault I suppose, but they don't seem to put terribly much effort into preserving community improvements when a new Android version comes out. Trivial things like being able to use SD cards using any freaking filesystem you want have to be reintroduced time and time again. (One time by me in Android 6, simply through providing the perfectly working patch from the previous version...) The real question is why Android completely artificially limits it to FAT32 and maybe exFAT. Because you know what "adding" support means? Removing a few restrictions that Android places on Linux which supports it all out of the box!

Anyway, features like double press home to switch to the last app (enabling almost meaningful multitasking much like on my better-than-Android, better-than-iOS S500i) and volume keys for cursor control still exist. A previous version of CM may also have allowed you to enable volume key to scroll but I might be confused with the option in individual apps like Kiwix and Dolphin.

Some people say they prefer stock Android, but I prefer at least some Android coatings like ZenUI and CyanogenMod over stock Android.[1] I believe Android 7 touts double-tap home to switch to last app as a grand new feature. Well, I was using it five years ago on Android, a decade ago on my "dumb"phone.

I don't know why things went wrong.[2] Ten years ago we had feature phones that were quite possibly better than many "smart"phones even today, with superior operating systems like Windows Mobile and Maemo on real smartphones. Now we have inferior Android and iOS, with a reasonable shell of Windows Mobile called Windows Phone in the margins, and a superior operating system called Sailfish OS (i.e., Maemo revived after Nokia killed it) as a total niche.

Sure, my current phone has some pretty neat features that I'd have liked to have ten years ago, like wifi and GPS. But maps combined with what I assume was some form of celltower triangulation was surprisingly useful. It went like "oh, you're within 1km of this celltower -- ah look, I've been able to ping a couple of different towers to get your location within 50m or so accurate... 20m if you're lucky, maybe even 10m, 100-150m if you're unlucky."[3] Somehow this cool piece of technology seems to be amazingly lost on my current and last phone. It's pretty much either completely clueless or accurate within a few meters, which is simultaneously a lot better and a lot worse.

I think that if you have mobile data and wifi enabled then Google can do some kind of wifi triangulation instead... except even in the best case scenario (i.e., cheap data) the same problem still applies. It's better when it works as you're virtually guaranteed to be within 100m or so of any given wifi, probably 150-200m tops, but for the same reason you can't get a quick "within these X km around the celltower" kind of range. You're SOOL. Sure, you might argue a 5 km range is pretty useless, but it's a matter of convenience. GPS itself is typically fairly useless anyway, unless you're tramping around in the wilderness or driving, as the map by itself is quite sufficient to find your location. But it's a lot easier if it gives you the map somewhere near you to start looking rather than having to take care of moving the map hundreds of kilometers yourself.

There are only three or four things that are unquestionably improvements since ten years ago: the display size and quality, standard wifi and GPS, the camera,[4] and the fact that 3.5 mm audio jacks are (were?) standard instead of annoying proprietary connectors.

Many things are either falsely lauded as improvements (e-mail? contact sync? calendar sync? yeah, my T630 did all of those already) or aren't improvements at all (capacitive touch, endless notifications).
Most people probably only know the horrors of Samsung. I'm not sure why the worst Android vendor is the most popular, while superior ones like HTC and Sony are suffering. I'd rather have an iPhone than a Samsung, and iPhones are seemingly nice (properly responsive UX!!!) but infuriatingly limited.
Actually it was probably the iPhone which somehow cemented the "smart"phone as an utterly dumb device. It can't even so much as send files through Bluetooth.
Of course since the only metric this can be based on is signal strength I wonder how accurate it can actually be, but in my experience it really wasn't that far off as long as you weren't moving too fast.
Sure, a nice Nokia N8 or something probably still easily beats a cheap smartphone camera today due to the optics but the point is that even the worst cameras will be surprisingly close to such a phenomenal device.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2017-09-10, 09:05:01
There are only three or four things that are unquestionably improvements since ten years ago: the display size and quality, standard wifi and GPS, the camera,[...] and the fact that 3.5 mm audio jacks are (were?) standard instead of annoying proprietary connectors.
I might also add microUSB - a good common standard to connect the phones to chargers and computers. But yes, all the substantial improvements seem to belong to the hardware department.

Smartphone RAM and CPU have lately caught up with laptops. This is as good as it can get. From here on it will be downhill, I suppose.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2017-09-10, 10:14:57
Oh yes, that's a very good point. It sort of slipped my mind because this was already happening with Mini-B (from 2000!) before the switch to Micro-B (from 2007), which is something that annoyed me slightly due to different connectors. It was understandable on account of the smaller size.

My Samsung P&S from '05/'06-ish has Mini-B, as does my Mio Moov 330 GPS and my wife's HTC Touch Diamond 2 Windows Mobile smartphone. It might be worth mentioning that my phone has replaced both the P&S and the GPS in practice, even if it's only superior to the GPS.[1] I've also got at least one 2.5" HDD enclosure with Mini-B, and I think my wife's 2.5" portable HDDs sport Mini-B as well but don't quote me on that. The BeBook ereader also came with Mini-B iirc.

USB-C would indeed also belong on that list, although I suppose it's debatable whether it's an improvement, or at least whether it's sufficiently so. I'm inclined to think that Lightning (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_(connector)) actually has the better idea in that you can insert the cable either way and the ports on your devices barely wear out. USB-C can be inserted both ways (improvement over micro-B) but still wears out the ports on your devices (same as micro-B). The fact that I've had to replace my phones for reasons completely other than port issues seems increasingly moot now that developments are finally slowing down. My two-year old Zenfone 2 has probably aged the least of all of my phones that I've had yet.

The single upside of less physical buttons is that what's not there can't break either. On my T630, for instance, the stick thing to navigate the menus was showing some serious signs of aging after a couple of years, eventually making replacing the battery not worth my while compared to buying a new device. My s500i was still going strong on the surface after some five years, including the battery, but I had to replace it because it started having odd issues like never reconnecting to the cell network after surfacing from a building or tunnel with cell signal. My Xperia ray started barely making the day on one charge, but although it was physically fine in every way I had to replace it because all the software had just become too demanding for the poor thing.[2] In any case, what I'm getting at is that I expect I'll probably have to replace my Zenfone 2 for proper reasons again: i.e., physical malfunction, not something stupid like lack of speed or memory.

It's on laptops where USB-C can really shine, allowing all of those nearly-compatible charging cables to become one. And of course it will be an improvement when you can carry one charger for both your phone and your laptop. Although you might still want to charge both of them at once... so the advantage of that remains to be seen. I guess you could charge your laptop from the wall and your phone through your laptop. Assuming, of course, that they didn't skimp on the number of USB-C ports because "they can do everything". In that case USB charging hubs might help as an annoying necessity.
Or at least the screen is superior. The actual GPS functionality is probably about the same, as is my current navigator of choice HERE WeGo. On my Mio Moov I used  custom iGO navigation software (for Windows CE) instead of the Mio software. You can also get iGO Navigation for Android. The real question is probably how the excellent free navigation from HERE maps makes any money.
I still retain it in wifi mode as an occasional music player/remove/generic "smart" device and the battery actually still works fine for that. But stick it in cell mode and the battery empties within a day or two. Perhaps there's a physical defect of some sort after all. I don't think passive connectivity is supposed to drain the battery like that. Then again, play audio for a few hours and the thing is half empty too. Quite unlike my dedicated mp3 player which seemingly lasts forever.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2017-09-10, 10:28:31
Smartphone RAM and CPU have lately caught up with laptops. This is as good as it can get. From here on it will be downhill, I suppose.
Hah, my laptop has 4 GB RAM, as does my phone. But my laptop is using 2 GB of it with several PDFs, a whole bunch of browser tabs, a few text editors, etc. (Admittedly, the text editors aren't really worth mentioning as far as things like memory use goes.) My phone is using more than 2 GB with... I don't know, three browser tabs (only one of which is even loaded), Kiwix, a Dropbox sync service and... basically nothing at all? I can "clean" my memory by killing all currently unused apps, which makes them slower to switch back to and still doesnt' get total RAM use under roughly 1.5 GB. The laptop starts with merely a few hundred.

I actually have no idea how the CPU speed on my laptop and phone compares. My phone sports an Intel Atom Z3580 (2M cache, 2.3 GHz, quad-core). My laptop has an Intel Core m3-6Y30 (4M cache, 2.2 GHz, 2 core). Of course my laptop is almost certainly faster, but the question is by how much. But it almost doesn't matter. Even my slower 2010 netbook would easily outperform phones in just about every way if it weren't for its slow HDD. But even so, its slow HDD allows it to store 300 GB or so, whereas my "generously" proportioned phone storage is limited to 32 GB, plus a 64 GB microSD card. Windows phones can also get away with about half the speed of Android phones without being any slower in practice.[1][2]
My new laptop actually only comes with only 120 GB, but at least I can replace the stock SSD if I want to.
NB That doesn't apply to junk like Facebook, which will run like @#$ no matter what.

See, e.g., how much smoother interaction with apps is on Windows (okay, maybe half the speed is an exaggeration but in sheer hardware power Windows phones are definitely less)
https://youtu.be/z71dLBnxblI?t=3m31s
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2017-09-10, 14:03:32
This time I most definitely saw correctly - Opera Mini now sports full-screen ads. They display for a second and then go away, so that you are left like wtf. This is a highway to hell kind of progress.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: krake on 2017-09-10, 21:40:54
They display for a second and then go away, so that you are left like wtf. This is a highway to hell kind of progress.
Reminds me of an interesting study I've read once, about how human brain and perception works.
To make a long story short, the ad industry can take advantage (in case they don't already) by bombing you with ads you don't even notice if they are displayed only for a fraction of a second. Such ads still can sneak unwitting into your memory. :devil:
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2017-09-10, 21:48:08
you don't even notice if they are displayed only for a fraction of a second.
That's the basis for many a run-of-the-mill psycholinguistics experiment into priming. ;)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2017-09-11, 11:22:46
I've been comparing Opera Mini and the non-mini Opera on Android for a day. The verdict: The non-mini Opera is slimmer in features and thus really minier.

The list of features accessible from the menus is slimmer in the non-mini Opera. For example,

- Night mode missing. Opera Mini has the coolest night mode among Android apps with yellow light. The non-mini Opera has none whatsoever.
- RSS missing. As far as I know, full-bred Opera Mobile never had it and now Opera Mini has ditched this feature lately too. It was cool as long as it lasted.
- No proper full-screen. The Android statusbar can be hidden when browsing in Mini, but not in the non-mini.
- No themes. Want to see your app in a different tint? Only possible in Mini.
- Make-me-default nagger. Again only in Mini.

And last but not least
- Full-screen ads missing. It's a very recent addition in Opera Mini, probably can be expected in an update to the non-mini rather sooner than later.

Then there's some stuff the other way round too, that the non-mini has and Mini doesn't. Such as:

- Reader mode can be unset. It too often hides (some of the) actual content text. The reader button stays, however, in the main interface. It's useless and annoying because all it does is take you to some "Discover" article, instead of making the current webpage more readable.
- "News and promotions" can be unset - a different (non-)feature than the loathsome "Discover". The latter is called these days "news feed on home page"

Well, geez, it's so hard to decide which one I prefer. Probably neither :D Opera Android does not stand for standards anymore. RSS is a web standard. WAP/WML is a web standard. Opera Android has ceased displaying them. Handheld apps should do something common-sensical with the volume button on handheld devices, but Opera Android doesn't. Etc.

In the non-mini I like the way it displays full complete webpages in desktop mode, something that Opera Mini fails to achieve no matter what. However, this makes Opera an ordinary browser like others, nothing special (not to mention some features that it lacks compared to others). I would much more prefer the old days when Opera Mini and Mobile were able to reduce webpages suitably with hiding of images, sensible trimming of whitespace and colouring of headings.

Looks like the only option to have a screen-considerate textmode on Android these days is to get Elinks or W3M running. I have already done it :) 
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2017-09-11, 11:48:10
- RSS missing. As far as I know, full-bred Opera Mobile never had it and now Opera Mini has ditched this feature lately too. It was cool as long as it lasted.
I do recall something about using RSS feeds in Opera Mini somehow, but I forget how it worked. However, I don't think real Opera Mobile was any different than real Opera in this regard, so at the very least you could bookmark 'em even if you couldn't use them offline like in a feedreader.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Frans/Screenshots/n-d5sFT/i-DpgvX3j/0/833f6945/O/i-DpgvX3j.png) (https://photos.smugmug.com/Frans/Screenshots/n-d5sFT/i-DpgvX3j/0/833f6945/O/i-DpgvX3j.png)

- No proper full-screen. The Android statusbar can be hidden when browsing in Mini, but not in the non-mini.
Interesting. But on Opera Mini I don't even see a way to do it. On Opera Mobile I have to put it in landscape, otherwise I can't seem to do it either.

RSS is a web standard.
Some argue it's dead. I vehemently oppose them. (With an exception for those who say RSS is dead because you should be using Atom instead.)

WAP/WML is a web standard.
To be fair though, WML is pretty dead. But it definitely was convenient to be able to browse what little of it still exists.

In the non-mini I like the way it displays full complete webpages in desktop mode, something that Opera Mini fails to achieve no matter what.
Meh, real Opera (Mobile) had site preferences. It wasn't exactly easy to edit them on Android, but they were there and it was (presumably) merely a matter of adding a sensible GUI. In Opera/Blink Mobile you need to switch back and forth.

I would much more prefer the old days when Opera Mini and Mobile were able to reduce webpages suitably with hiding of images, sensible trimming of whitespace and colouring of headings.
Yes, although I think it might actually be Opera that's responsible for having improved Chromium text wrapping to near-usability. It used to be awful.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2017-09-11, 12:38:24
I do recall something about using RSS feeds in Opera Mini somehow, but I forget how it worked.
Go to a webpage with RSS feed defined as alternative link in the HTML head and a little RSS link used to appear at the upper rim of the webpage. Bookmarks had a special folder for such links and they displayed properly. The engine had a special address protocol for them, view://feed or such.

- No proper full-screen. The Android statusbar can be hidden when browsing in Mini, but not in the non-mini.
Interesting. But on Opera Mini I don't even see a way to do it.
In the Preferences where it says full-screen, on mine it also mentioned statusbar. Then again, versions could differ based on at what point you installed them and on what version of Android you have them. Maybe.

By this time I have already uninstalled both Opera Android and Mini. Really sad how useless they are.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2017-09-11, 15:02:05
In the Preferences where it says full-screen, on mine it also mentioned statusbar. Then again, versions could differ based on at what point you installed them and on what version of Android you have them. Maybe.
Ah! I thought it would be a toggle like in Opera Mobile and video players. I don't think I see a difference between fullscreen with statusbar and disabled though.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2017-10-26, 07:56:26
Opera switched to a new forum software: https://forums.opera.com/topic/22906/welcome-to-the-new-opera-forums

Incidentally, I intend to update to Elk 1.1 in the hopefully not-too-far-off future.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2017-10-27, 08:02:30
Incidentally, I intend to update to Elk 1.1 in the hopefully not-too-far-off future.
Not-too-far-off future? By Christmas then? What does Elk 1.1 do? Does it do Santa hats like VLC systray icon?
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2017-10-27, 09:09:07
Inline attachments. :P

Also a couple of improvements I added to the video embedding script.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2017-10-27, 20:02:08
How about putting complete posts into the RSS feed?
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2017-10-27, 20:32:31
Something like this?
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2017-10-27, 20:56:29
Well, yes, looks like complete posts now. So you can tweak them, amazing!

Now, how about adding the poster information too to each post in the RSS feed. Just the name. Can Elk do that? :)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2017-10-27, 21:30:48
It's there already.

Code: [Select]
		<item>
<title>Re: Keeping an eye on Opera</title>
<link>https://thedndsanctuary.eu/index.php?topic=13.msg76107#msg76107</link>
<description>
<![CDATA[Well, yes, looks like complete posts now. So you can tweak them, amazing!<br /><br />Now, how about adding the poster information too to each post in the RSS feed. Just the name. Can Elk do that? <img src="https://thedndsanctuary.eu/smileys/myopera/smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" /><br />]]>
</description>
<category><![CDATA[Browsers &amp; Technology]]></category>
<comments>https://thedndsanctuary.eu/index.php?action=post;topic=13.0</comments>
<pubDate>Fri, 27 Oct 2017 20:56:29 GMT</pubDate>
<guid>https://thedndsanctuary.eu/index.php?topic=13.msg76107#msg76107</guid>
<dc:creator>ersi</dc:creator>
</item>

That's pretty standard. What are you using to look at the feed?
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2017-10-27, 21:47:43
Oh, you are right. On Aggregator (Android app) the names always showed. But I use Rawdog on my computers and for some reason DnD is the feed that does not have poster names in Rawdog.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2017-10-27, 22:01:21
The easiest thing to try would be whether the Atom feed works out. Although I would definitely expect that feedparser library to deal with it.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2017-10-27, 23:19:37
It must be the way Rawdog formats its output. Mozilla-ites do the same thing - they surely can detect names of posters, they are simply not displaying it (click on RSS or Atom button in FF or the like just to view the result). Whereas Aggregator on Android shows names of posters nicely on a distinct line.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: jax on 2017-10-28, 07:19:27
1. Google is starting a new office in Oslo
2. Several core Opera veterans are quitting
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2017-10-28, 08:01:49
2. Several core Opera veterans are quitting
There were still some left?
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: jax on 2017-10-28, 08:47:45
There still are some.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2017-10-28, 09:04:57
This Twitter account says "Opera employee" though I don't know if that's outdated. :P https://twitter.com/wiumlie
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2017-10-28, 11:19:41
Håkon Lie is more like employer at Opera, not employee.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2017-10-30, 20:11:55
Something like this?
You didn't really make posts visible in RSS in entirety. You only loosened the limitation. Right ??? :)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2017-10-31, 13:07:41
There's a warning in the settings that says unlimited is not a good idea. I'm not entirely sure why though. Perhaps it's only a bad idea in combination with unlimited post size. (Currently limited to 20000. I think I may have increased it from the default.)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2017-11-02, 18:41:00
How about keeping both at the same number?
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2017-11-02, 20:35:22
Sure, why not.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Belfrager on 2017-11-05, 22:36:19
To Opera orphans, grow up.
I'm using Opera 45 many times, it performs well, better than many other things.
What's the point of being against a 0,1 percent user's browser.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2017-11-06, 12:15:05
Who's against it? :)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: jax on 2017-11-06, 14:24:41
This Twitter account says "Opera employee" though I don't know if that's outdated. :P https://twitter.com/wiumlie

Håkon recruited me and was my first manager, but he's not among the very earliest employees. Yngve, now Vivaldi. does network. Karl Anders did the engine and the architecture with Geir (and early Javascript), he's still with Opera. Around Opera 5 the engine became more of a collaborative effort, but not truly reengineered until about Opera 7.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2017-11-06, 16:17:50
To Opera orphans, grow up.
I'm using Opera 45 many times, it performs well, better than many other things.
What's the point of being against a 0,1 percent user's browser.
We can do even better and use browsers that have less than 0.001 percent share of the market.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Belfrager on 2017-11-11, 23:22:36
We can do even better and use browsers that have less than 0.001 percent share of the market.
Yes, a 0,001 percent share of market browser is much more exclusive than a 0,1 one. You won.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2018-01-16, 16:45:33
Breaking! Opera introduces an innovative feature from 2003 (or earlier still? I don't quite recall if the window panel was in Opera <7)

http://blogs.opera.com/desktop/2018/01/opera-developer-52-initial-release/

Quote
Selecting multiple individual tabs can be done by holding Ctrl (⌘ on macOS) and clicking on the tabs, or you can select a range of tabs, from left to right, by holding Shift and clicking on a tab.

Incidentally, this used to work from Windows 95 through Windows XP. Since Vista the Ctrl + click mechanism has been broken in the Windows taskbar.

Admittedly, the Windows 7+ drag to the side of the screen for quick tiling method isn't horrible either, but it would've been better as an addition. Things you can do in Windows XP, for example that you can't in 10? Minimize group and close group. (Also cascade and choosing to tile vertically, but I've never quite understood the point of cascade.)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2018-01-16, 22:24:18
(Also cascade and choosing to tile vertically, but I've never quite understood the point of cascade.)
Back when I didn't know any better, I used Cascade to get all the open windows visible at once to select the next window. This was useful when there were already very many windows open so that I had lost track of them.

Edit: Concerning selecting browser tabs, I like the way you can select them arbitrarily in Vivaldi and then tile or cascade or do other such operations with the selection - with Ctrl+click of course.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2018-01-17, 11:55:10
Back when I didn't know any better, I used Cascade to get all the open windows visible at once to select the next window. This was useful when there were already very many windows open so that I had lost track of them.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by didn't know any better but it can definitely be useful to read the full window title.

Edit: Concerning selecting browser tabs, I like the way you can select them arbitrarily in Vivaldi and then tile or cascade or do other such operations with the selection - with Ctrl+click of course.
Everybody does. Opera's failure in this regard is that it only worked properly in the windows panel.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2018-01-17, 12:43:32
I'm not quite sure what you mean by didn't know any better but it can definitely be useful to read the full window title.
I mean when I had not discovered Alt+Tab yet. The only upside of Cascade compared to Alt+Tab on Windows is longer window titles. 

Everybody does. Opera's failure in this regard is that it only worked properly in the windows panel.
Talking about old Opera or the new?

In old Opera, another thing I like is the ability to get the list of open tabs (and more) by right-clicking the tray icon and select the one to go. Works like the best window list thingies on window managers in Linux.

As far as I know, Vivaldi does not have a tray icon. Does the current Chropera?
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2018-01-17, 14:19:01
Talking about old Opera or the new?
New Opera has no windows panel afaik. Vivaldi's had it for a while I believe, although I'm not sure how functional it was. It looks like it rivals Opera/Presto right now in any case.

As far as I know, Vivaldi does not have a tray icon. Does the current Chropera?
Doesn't look like it.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2018-05-26, 05:59:00
Just in time for the GDPR nonsense taking full force, Opera's VPN stopped working. For me, it doesn't connect at all. Earlier, there used to be options to pick a country on whichever continent you wanted, these options are gone now. Looks like I must finally sign up to a paid VPN service.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: RomFil on 2018-09-24, 19:46:39
hi all,flash is back in opera presto on YT
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Ffunkyimg.com%2Fi%2F2LwyN.jpg&hash=c99e42da8fe15f6111b09f3d2396a658" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://funkyimg.com/i/2LwyN.jpg)
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Ffunkyimg.com%2Fi%2F2Lwxv.jpg&hash=58403bb377982effb4b84ef1ac0ea929" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://funkyimg.com/i/2Lwxv.jpg)
all credit(in Russian forum) http://forum.ru-board.com/topic.cgi?forum=5&topic=48830&start=1000
download opera 12.18  mod  http://wdfiles.ru/mgM3

Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Belfrager on 2018-09-24, 22:18:49
Just in time for the GDPR nonsense taking full force, Opera's VPN stopped working.
There's no connection between the two things.
1- Opera's VPN  keeps on working for Windows version. Why it doesn't anymore for Linux you have to ask Opera.
2- GDPR is not "nonsense". Maybe you prefer the American's Big Brother way of "freedom", I don't. There's no alternatives.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2018-09-25, 04:46:08
hi all,flash is back in opera presto on YT
Thanks for sharing!
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2018-09-26, 03:34:50
Just in time for the GDPR nonsense taking full force, Opera's VPN stopped working.
There's no connection between the two things.
There's the time connection.

1- Opera's VPN  keeps on working for Windows version. Why it doesn't anymore for Linux you have to ask Opera.
I didn't even know there was a Linux or Windows version. I only used the Android version. These days I use a paid service because I need a solid connection to Finland.

2- GDPR is not "nonsense". Maybe you prefer the American's Big Brother way of "freedom", I don't. There's no alternatives.
The alternative, when one does not know how things work, is to refrain from messing them up further. I have been rather clear what I mean by nonsense, namely it makes internet clunkier to use and it does not provide a single benefit. EU big brother is no better from American big brother.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Belfrager on 2018-09-26, 12:33:15
EU big brother is no better from American big brother.
Maybe... but it has a different perfume.  ;)
I have been rather clear what I mean by nonsense, namely it makes internet clunkier to use and it does not provide a single benefit.
RGPD starts with changing processes that applies to everyone as citizens. For example, I agree entirely that everybody has the right to not allow public or private services to make copies of people's ID card. Or, that anyone has the right to know what data exactly services have about them and demand it's immediate correction or removal.
These are very very important measures for people's empowerment.

As specifically for the Internet you probably have a more in depth knowledge than I have, I simply believe that there's nothing to stop "them" knowing (and storing for future eventual usage against you) everything people do. The importance of EU's RGPD is like the importance of EU not allowing the commerce of cloned animals for the food industry (unlike the US, Russia and China). At least we can't be accused of doing nothing.

This is the statement of Qwant (https://www.qwant.com), a French search engine I use sometimes:
What you are doing with Qwant is your business and yours only. To protect your privacy, Qwant makes every effort to ensure the security and confidentiality of its users personal data. We collect as little data as possible. Therefore, we forbid ourselves to use any cookie or any other tracking device that may help build your profile for advertising purposes. Moreover, your queries are  anonymized by dissociating them and the IP address you used, in accordance with recommendations by the French data protection office, CNIL.

Things are different in the EU. For better.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2018-10-03, 18:32:51
Maybe... but it has a different perfume.
You probably think "they may be bastards, but they are our bastards" whereas I think "even if our bastards, they are still bastards."

RGPD starts with changing processes that applies to everyone as citizens. For example, I agree entirely that everybody has the right to not allow public or private services to make copies of people's ID card.
It does not work this way. The way it works is that you are pushed for consent. And regardless if you give consent or not, the authorities/companies can make copies for their own purposes. Nothing has changed with regard to earlier regulations except that people are being bugged for consent.

As to the Qwant statement, it's Qwant's own initiative, not required by the GDPR or any other EU regulation. If it were required, Google would surely have a similar statement.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2018-12-22, 07:43:09
Opera launches cryptocurrency-oriented browser for the decentralized web

Quote from: https://thenextweb.com/hardfork/2018/12/13/opera-blockchain-ethereum-android/
[Opera ASA] announced the browser, which comes with a built-in cryptocurrency wallet, is now available for Android. This makes Opera the first mainstream browser that comes with cryptocurrency and blockchain features.

[...]

"Our hope is that this step will accelerate the transition of cryptocurrencies from speculation and investment to being used for actual payments and transactions in our users' daily lives," Opera executive VP Krystian Kolondra said.
Does anybody have any idea what the idea is? I never used it, but I am under the impression that blockchain is like a protocol and cryptocurrency is like an application of it, roughly the same relationship as internet and a website are to each other.

So what's the idea of including a blockchain "wallet" in a webbrowser? To help you get started with mining some cryptocurrency? Ah, I get it. It's to help cryptominers get easier access to your computer so as to mine from you. Thanks!



On Android, it is far more important to have a reading mode in a webbrowser. I don't see it in the current version of Opera anymore. Where did it go? Or if not a reading mode, then at least some presets to change colours and font sizes. At best to provide full options to set user-preferred font faces and all colours. Opera for Android currently only has some incomplete night mode.

The only interesting option in current Android Opera is offline webpages, but that was there since day one in old handheld Opera. I guess the new developers have simply forgotten to remove it.

The additions in current Android Opera tend to mostly add confusion. For example, what is the difference of adding to Bookmarks, to Home Screen, and to Speed Dial? Is there any distinct access to them all? None that I can see. Bookmarks and Offline webpages would be quite enough.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: RomFil on 2019-01-14, 11:43:58
hi all,flash is back in opera presto on YT
Thanks for sharing!
now you use on YT?
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2019-01-14, 14:06:10
I don't use Opera Presto much these days, let alone for YouTube. :)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: RomFil on 2019-01-14, 14:27:12
I can not integrate me (addictive and convenience I have not seen in others) somewhere after killing this browser
YT on unofficial mirror site (no ads and mainer)
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Ffunkyimg.com%2Fi%2F2Qbt1.png&hash=5f17d6959e85af11c9ce3ca87a232398" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://funkyimg.com/i/2Qbt1.png) (http://funkyimg.com/i/2QbsZ.jpg)
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2019-03-19, 08:41:35
I was trying Opera Touch on my phone. The interface is pretty good. Its central tenet is well-known, but I don't think I've seen it in a browser before (or even much on Android outside of CyanogenMod and a custom launcher or two): an interface element from which you swipe in a direction to activate an action. Unfortunately you can't customize the actions, making it possibly the most elegant mobile browser in existence yet quintessentially very modern Opera.

The biggest problem is that it pops up messages about only working if Google Play services are installed. This isn't actually true for regular use at all, but it looks as though Flow might depend on it.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2019-03-19, 19:56:29
I had pretty much given up on Opera, even on Android. I just don't understand the thing anymore. It used to be lightweight and render webpages so that they were legible, but this ceased to be the case a long time ago. Most lately, their reading mode has become so dysfunctional that I saw no purpose to the whole browser, compared to the reading modes that Edge and Samsung Internet are providing. The only point that Opera for Android still had was the ability to save pages offline.

Now I began trying Opera Touch, with low expectations. However, the first launch walkthrough is pretty sensible.

(https://ersi.vivaldi.net/wp-content/uploads/sites/308/2019/03/Screenshot_2019-03-19-17-32-55.png)

- Do I want ad blocking? Yes, if it works.
- Do I want to allow everybody to mine crypto from me? No idea why this is even an option. Do I even have crypto? Will it save the world if I allow it? Should browsers permit such evident intrusion into user-space?
- Block cookie dialogs? Yep, I passionately hate those, so let's try.
- Dark theme? Nice touch!

Next I go into Settings.

(https://ersi.vivaldi.net/wp-content/uploads/sites/308/2019/03/Screenshot_2019-03-19-17-33-58.png)

- Extended usage statistics? Meaning when I turn it off, you will send only limited usage statistics? Who are you kidding, Opera!
- Translate language? Where's the "never" option?!

Okay, let's try the most popular website in my homeland. And immediately I am faced with an ad and a cookie popup. Apparently the cookie popup block (which should be as standard a feature in modern browsers as popup blocking used to be) only works if the popup is in English. Bummerz. Already calling for an uninstall.

The only bookmarking option is Add to homescreen. No offline pages. No reading mode whatsoever, not even in some broken intermittent form. No navigation with the volume keys. Ah, and it silently set itself as system default. All in all, not much there to keep me, and sufficiently much there to repulse.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2019-03-20, 05:44:13
More Opera Touch rant. The big fat button thingie that shows up at app launch and when you are at the top of a webpage or when scrolling up, I would maybe tolerate it if it were configurable. Including hideable. As it is, it just gets in my way. Soon it will be in my way for the last time.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2019-03-20, 11:25:41
That button[1] is the point of Opera Touch. I find it a lot more elegant than the typical UI paradigm within the constraints of mobile touch. If you don't like that aspect of it, it's basically just an inferior version of regular Opera mobile. Opera mobile currently has "classic" and "tablet" layouts. I expect them to add "FAB" if it's a success, possibly as a default or for them to kill it if user response aligns more with you and less with me.

It's far from the first time I've seen a "FAB" of course, but it may be unique in the context of browsers. One of the oldest instances I'm personally familiar with is Full Throttle from '95 with its verb coin interface (see attachment).[2] You can either click and subsequently choose an action, or click and hold while dragging the mouse in one of the directions. This highlights a potentially problematic aspect of Opera Touch's FAB implementation, because you can't opt to tap the button and take your time to ponder your options. You have to keep holding it.

A mid-2000s implementation exists in Circle Dock (http://circledock.wikidot.com/) for Windows Vista.They call the "FAB" a "circular dock."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ko36ebOg9U

There's also GNOME Pie (http://simmesimme.github.io/gnome-pie.html), available by default in my Debian repos. They call it the pie interface. It works quite well. It's not necessarily of the biggest interest on my desktop, but on a laptop I can definitely see using something like gebaar (https://github.com/Coffee2CodeNL/gebaar-libinput) to activate it with some three or four finger gesture.

https://vimeo.com/125339537

PS I find Gnome Pie shows the most potential as a launcher, Ctrl+Alt+A by default. It also comes with a window switcher under Ctrl+Alt+T, which is fairly useless compared to various alternatives. More useful is the Ctrl+Alt+W functionality which allows you quick alternative access to minimize/maximize/close and such, except I don't think it works quite right except in Gnome Shell.
They call it the Fast Action Button or "FAB."
Actually they just call it the verb icons in Full Throttle, but the later verb coin from the '97 game Curse of Monkey Island defined how we refer to the concept.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2019-03-21, 16:20:14
In fact I've been trying Gnome Pie and I quite like it as a quicklaunch alternative.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2019-03-21, 21:03:44
Whereas I still prefer the likes of Xfce Whisker menu or Rofi or even Windows menu since XP with this common idea: Hit the hotkey/combo and start typing to find any program. Maybe I am just old and conservative.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2019-03-22, 21:26:22
You don't use a few icons in a quicklaunch bar or on your desktop or something for your most-used programs for the occasional mouse/trackball/touchpad use? Interesting. :)

Windows menu since XP
In XP you can pin some things but the search was introduced in Vista. But Launchy was much better than the Vista search and available on XP to boot. Programs like Gnome Do, Albert, Rofi and Gnome Pie are fully complementary.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2019-03-23, 06:22:02
You don't use a few icons in a quicklaunch bar or on your desktop or something for your most-used programs for the occasional mouse/trackball/touchpad use? Interesting. :)
You mean Quick Launch like on Windows? Indeed I don't these days. On desktop I don't do it at all, because there is no such thing in i3wm. And whatever you may end up putting there (provided that the taskbar of your desktop has a location for quick launch), it will be insufficient. Okay, a web browser and a file browser, maybe Skype and a media player too, but when you are like me and you use about six web browsers in specialised ways, will you put all of them there? Hardly.

Edit: On Windows, I strongly prefer to have as much space for window titles as possible (I always change the taskbar settings accordingly, "never combine", show the window on the taskbar on the actual monitor that the window is on, etc.). On i3wm, there is a pretty good combined titlebar or as-if-tabbar (the "tabbed" mode) displaying all open windows on the given workspace, which is the element that makes me prefer i3wm over any other tiling wm. On desktops, I absolutely need window titlebars and a taskbar with window titles. On handheld I can do without, because there you basically have one fullscreen/maxed window at a time and you flip between apps. /edit

I am okay to have a launch menu that populates itself according to most often or most recently used apps - even Rofi can do it -, but I do not want to limit the number of those apps. A search field to search all the apps - and display selectable matches on the fly - is the quickest launcher for me.

Windows menu since XP
In XP you can pin some things but the search was introduced in Vista.
Ah, you're right. XP had this all-too-encompassing search.

(https://kb.wisc.edu/images/group1/3387/search1.JPG)

Well, indeed I remember having put Opera on Quick Launch back on XP days :) A little Quick Launch section is not a bad thing. But the thing is that it is little. I cannot let the Quick Launch be all over the taskbar like Win 10 insists at first. I make space for window titles there.

Yesterday I acquired a device that has Android 8.1 on it. When you have icons on the home screen and you long press them, some yield a menu of options like "open home page" and "open incognito" or whatever else the app does. However, most only provide "app info" i.e. nothing useful. And nothing that can be changed. Seriously, those list-y things are only useful when configurable.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2019-05-21, 12:42:14
I don't know what it means, but Opera is making a gaming browser. Maybe it's just another overlay you can activate while playing a game, except a proper browser instead of the built-in Steam stuff.

https://www.opera.com/gx
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2019-05-25, 19:55:16
I don't know what it means, but Opera is making a gaming browser.
It means a skin, I assume. Opera Coast is a Chrome skin for Mac. Opera Touch is a browser skin for Android. Etc.

Opera ASA makes skins these, not browsers. There are better skins out there.
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: Frenzie on 2019-06-11, 15:41:36
It actually sounds interesting, although how interesting I'm not sure. It means limiting CPU/memory.

https://blogs.opera.com/desktop/2019/06/opera-gx-early-access-lvl1/
Title: Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Post by: ersi on 2019-06-11, 17:23:13
It means limiting CPU/memory.
Something like settings for accelerators and such in IE and FF? Yup, that's innovation. Fine-grained performance controls would be welcome of course, but I expect coarse, clumsy, and crippled from Opera ASA, the way its allegedly inbuilt adblocking is. And I absolutely hate that video popout thingie.