The DnD Sanctuary

General => DnD Central => Topic started by: Banned Member on 2014-01-28, 12:42:40

Title: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-01-28, 12:42:40
Who knows a decent map service on the Web? Except for Google's and alike, I mean.
For example, I wanted to find some physical maps of the UK's regions. One recent guy gave me errors instead of pages...
In one of other threads I shared some www.justmaps.org.  But its helpfulness seems rather limited to finding towns (within countries or otherwise larger regions; it looks simpler than using Google-like zoomables).
So what do you know? ???
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-01-28, 12:50:06
On archive.org you can find the largest quantity of digitalized versions of just about anything you can imagine. See e.g. https://archive.org/details/modernscho79west00toro
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-01-28, 13:25:17
It seems not to show much...

For now, I've found something useful (for the UK): www.british-towns.net/maps.
The pro of this service is that you don't have to start with an ultimately zoomed-in point - rather otherwise.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2014-01-28, 14:10:26
This TED talk (http://new.ted.com/talks/frederic_kaplan_how_i_built_an_information_time_machine) might be worth watching, then.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: string on 2014-01-28, 15:41:40

It seems not to show much...

For now, I've found something useful (for the UK): www.british-towns.net/maps.
The pro of this service is that you don't have to start with an ultimately zoomed-in point - rather otherwise.


Is that not exactly the same as Google's (https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&tab=ll)?
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2014-01-28, 19:32:27
Google Maps is god. That's my house hiding behind the trees.
https://www.google.com/maps/preview/@43.006204,-85.629361,3a,75y,190.1h,92.38t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sW71q3VAEttJQ0W5SWxJ5GA!2e0!6m1!1e1 (https://www.google.com/maps/preview/@43.006204,-85.629361,3a,75y,190.1h,92.38t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sW71q3VAEttJQ0W5SWxJ5GA!2e0!6m1!1e1)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-01-28, 19:53:20
Is that not exactly the same as Google's (https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&tab=ll)?

Not exactly the same; it's Google Maps with a couple of extras here and there. However, I too thought the intended target was something quite different as opposed to something 99% the same as Google Maps. An old-fashioned atlas (there's many more where that came from) seemed to fit the bill in my book.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: ensbb3 on 2014-01-28, 20:03:56
There's only so many sources for international map data. Three off top Nokia, Google (American) and TomTom (Europe). Most places will pool data from those map sets. In fact Google used to buy data from both others. Tho from the company Nokia bought, not directly. They may still use TomTom's data in Europe,  idk. So most maps are indeed the same data set.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2014-01-28, 20:05:27
An old-fashioned atlas (there's many more where that came from) seemed to fit the bill in my book.

Will this do? It's alongside the requisite beer can. ;)
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.ebayimg.com%2Ft%2FANTIQUE-J-G-BARTHOLOMEW-LL-D-VCITIZENS-VERY-OLD-ATLAS-BOOK-IN-NEED-OF-REPAIR-%2F00%2Fs%2FMTIwMFgxNjAw%2Fz%2Fv4YAAMXQUmFSi65J%2F%24_35.JPG&hash=9176a7984971178e4cb061f2b2fd8655" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.ebayimg.com/t/ANTIQUE-J-G-BARTHOLOMEW-LL-D-VCITIZENS-VERY-OLD-ATLAS-BOOK-IN-NEED-OF-REPAIR-/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/v4YAAMXQUmFSi65J/$_35.JPG)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-01-28, 20:08:20
If you're not aware of it, check http://www.openstreetmap.org/

The map data for The Netherlands and Belgium is top notch because it was seeded by experts. In the US it's often lesser. But what's missing on OSM, and also on Google Maps, is all the other kinds of maps available in an atlas. Height, terrain type, etc.

Will this do? It's alongside the requisite beer can.

Very nice. I have some old German ones, myself.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: ensbb3 on 2014-01-28, 20:33:04

If you're not aware of it, check http://www.openstreetmap.org/

The map data for The Netherlands and Belgium is top notch because it was seeded by experts. In the US it's often lesser. But what's missing on OSM.


I have seen it in the market but didn't realize what it was. Figured it for another redress of google nav. Interesting...

I've missed those other features too. Thought I was the last nut with an atlas.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: ersi on 2014-01-29, 06:21:33
Nice pic, Jim.

As to uptodate navigation apps, what's wrong with Google Maps or Bing Maps that should come out of the box on all or nearly all mobile devices? Don't they do the job just about anywhere?

I have a small collection of maps and atlases myself, unfortunately none really historical, except some reprints of old maps. Sometimes I admire this site http://www.davidrumsey.com/ Most of my collection consists of modern maps of places I visited or planned to visit, ordinary tourist leftovers.

I know about the Openstreetmap too. I have never installed a Google Earth. Instead I have installed Marble http://marble.kde.org/maps.php It includes Openstreetmap in addition to other goodies.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-01-29, 07:13:14
If you're not aware of it, check http://www.openstreetmap.org/
There's no Great Britain there at all!
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FZLw3y1X.png&hash=cca72f2c4c906622b391d953ea61f721" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/ZLw3y1X.png)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: ersi on 2014-01-29, 07:49:55

If you're not aware of it, check http://www.openstreetmap.org/
There's no Great Britain there at all!
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FZLw3y1X.png&hash=cca72f2c4c906622b391d953ea61f721" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/ZLw3y1X.png)
For me, search for Great Britain led to this link http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/62149

It's all there. Not as slick and slippery as in Google Maps, but it's there.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-01-29, 08:11:53
Yes, ok, thanks, but I prefer physical maps to those "contour" ones you've shown.:P
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-01-29, 08:53:47
As to uptodate navigation apps, what's wrong with Google Maps or Bing Maps that should come out of the box on all or nearly all mobile devices? Don't they do the job just about anywhere?

Well, you don't want things to stop working when there's no connection. Google likes to makes it software so that it requires connectivity. Also, even on a tablet, digital maps are just so small. In any case, I misinterpreted the OP. Turns out I have no idea what the question is.

Yes, ok, thanks, but I prefer physical maps to those "contour" ones you've shown.

I don't know what you mean by contour, but if you're looking for physical road maps of (parts of) the UK I'd check the local tourist office or try to find some UK/EU-based site that ships to Russia for less than a fortune?
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2014-01-29, 09:58:16
The best maps are the military cartographic series of maps.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-01-29, 11:47:15
Yeah, right...

Not only physical, but other types seem to get found easier - political, roads...

What's wrong with Google's?
1. They're not exactly downloadable. (And I tried using that "save map"/"my maps" thing, but eventually - when I attempted to recall some from there... It appeared dumb.)
2. They're not exactly physical nor even any political (county borders etc.). For the physical aspect, it's most often very hard or impossible to appreciate water objects (unless they're lakes, maybe): instead of rivers dumb Google shows roads, when seas - well, there are ponds, but it's hard to find any markings -- while one could guess about the SEAS, the bays and such stuff are not marked at all.
3. As I already mentioned, you have to start with a mile/inch scale then unzoom, unzoom, unzoom and wait till loading to appreciate the context in which the object is.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: ersi on 2014-01-29, 14:14:50

In any case, I misinterpreted the OP. Turns out I have no idea what the question is.

Yes, ok, thanks, but I prefer physical maps to those "contour" ones you've shown.


No, we didn't misinterpret. It's just that the traps of Russian Engrish are tough. "Physical map" means geological map, with heights and depths and such, good for trekking. He still means a software solution. The best bet is the satellite view of Google Earth or equivalent.

This whole issue is not a debate but a software/web resource question. It belongs properly to the software board, if I may be so pedantic today.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2014-01-29, 18:24:19
I make my living by being able to follow map directions, but it appears that Josh is looking for something a little different than anything I'd be familiar with.

What ARE you looking for, or do you even know?
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: string on 2014-01-29, 18:48:35
Google Maps appears to have gone beyond itself.

I was looking at Google Maps and noting that they now show a photo of the house if you enter a specific address., Tried it for my house. So I got a nice photo of a house further up the road.

I was wondering where my delivery went.

(that latter remark, by the way, is unfortunately not a joke).
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2014-01-29, 19:15:26
I'm sure Google is a great source for the CIA and the NSA.

I saw the Google vehicle drive past my house.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-01-29, 19:30:57
On Google Maps, you can also choose "terrain". It shows stuff like mountains a little better.

I'm not sure if there are really proper digital versions of the kind of maps you find in atlases. In Dutch De Grote Bosatlas is kind of the reference atlas; in English that might be Goode's World Atlas. Doubtless JoshL knows better what the Russian paper equivalent is than any of us.

Apparently there are also interactive maps available at something called De Grote Bosatlas Online, but the name sounds like a subscription service to me.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2014-01-29, 20:51:24
http://www.wolfert.nl/tweetalig/schoolinfo-2/mediatheek/grote-bosatlas/ (http://www.wolfert.nl/tweetalig/schoolinfo-2/mediatheek/grote-bosatlas/)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: krake on 2014-01-30, 00:01:22

I was looking at Google Maps and noting that they now show a photo of the house if you enter a specific address., Tried it for my house. So I got a nice photo of a house further up the road.

I was wondering where my delivery went.

(that latter remark, by the way, is unfortunately not a joke).


Shit happens. Ask some drone operators.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-01-30, 04:27:30
No, we didn't misinterpret. It's just that the traps of Russian Engrish are tough. "Physical map" means geological map, with heights and depths and such, good for trekking. He still means a software solution. The best bet is the satellite view of Google Earth or equivalent.
Bullshit2.
:bullshit:
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-01-30, 04:30:42
This whole issue is not a debate but a software/web resource question. It belongs properly to the software board,
Bullshit.
Is "survive as a community" to be in "browsers" too because MyOpera has been on the Web?
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-01-30, 04:46:12
I make my living by being able to follow map directions, but it appears that Josh is looking for something a little different than anything I'd be familiar with.
Physiacal geography. In school. Remember?
http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=14886582
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-01-30, 05:07:16
On Google Maps, you can also choose "terrain". It shows stuff like mountains a little better.
Maybe a little...
Maybe the problem is with changing the scale - while large ones mean topographic when small (large areas) scales mean physical -- different layout on papers...
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-01-30, 05:10:20
Wow! (http://www.nacis.org/data/world_map/map1/world1/world_map1.html)..
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: ersi on 2014-01-30, 07:07:54

Wow! (http://www.nacis.org/data/world_map/map1/world1/world_map1.html)..

So? That's what you needed?

Btw, on my smartphone I have the version of Google Maps that enables saving for offline. I stopped updating stuff in the phone at the right time. Want to buy? LG P500
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-01-30, 08:07:20
So? That's what you needed?
Not exactly.
But it's impressive and useful.(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FKyapDYu.png&hash=feb6af59c2ef482fa96049357ff658f5" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/KyapDYu.png)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-01-30, 16:25:40
Quote from: Shadedrelief.com
Digital map art, although highly accurate, tends to have a mechanical appearance lacking the visual appeal of the best manual art. That National Geographic today still uses manual art for world physical maps indicates the existence of a quality gap.
Large wall map (42.8 MB) - CMYK JPEG (quality level 10), 17,010 x 9,720 pixels, 270 DPI. (http://www.nacis.org/data/world_map/map1/map1_type.jpg)Who's ЧМЫК?
And who's DPI?
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-01-30, 17:32:07
Don't you use Wikipedia? :P DPI is dots per inch; 270 DPI is decent-enough looking print. Although to say that a digital picture is 270 DPI is meaningless. They probably mean it'll print at 270 DPI onto A0 or some such.

Actually, let's quickly calculate that:

17,010/270 = 63 inch
9,720/270 = 36 inch

That doesn't seem to correspond to any common paper sizes.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2014-01-30, 19:19:52
The best maps are the military cartographic series of maps.

Yeah, right...

"Yeah, right..." what?
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-01-30, 19:29:52
That doesn't seem to correspond to any common paper sizes.
Quote
Large wall map
-- WAAll. See? :D
"Yeah, right..." what?
English.
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FDR8BNZA.png&hash=2a3c1d3dceb720329f84d864152049ee" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/DR8BNZA.png)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2014-01-30, 21:21:20

"Yeah, right..." what?
English.
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FDR8BNZA.png&hash=2a3c1d3dceb720329f84d864152049ee" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/DR8BNZA.png)

English (https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FDR8BNZA.png&hash=2a3c1d3dceb720329f84d864152049ee" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/DR8BNZA.png) your mother.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-01-31, 07:13:40
Morning, Bel! I didn't mean anything contrary to your notion.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2014-01-31, 07:25:00
Ok, I misunderstood then. Good morning to you too.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-02-03, 09:43:51


In any case, I misinterpreted the OP. Turns out I have no idea what the question is.

Yes, ok, thanks, but I prefer physical maps to those "contour" ones you've shown.


No, we didn't misinterpret. It's just that the traps of Russian Engrish are tough. "Physical map" means geological map, with heights and depths and such, good for trekking. He still means a software solution. The best bet is the satellite view of Google Earth or equivalent.

...

Quote from: studentweb
Maps that show the natural features of the Earth are called physical maps.  In fourth grade we will focus on physical maps that show landforms.  Mountains, hills, and plains are all examples of landforms.  Physical maps also show bodies of water such as lakes, rivers, and oceans.
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fstudentweb.wilkes.edu%2Fandrew.risser%2FFinalProjectRisser%2FPhysical%2520Map%25203.gif&hash=76c0a178726ef45928909b38ee2ac4f7" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://studentweb.wilkes.edu/andrew.risser/FinalProjectRisser/Physical%20Map%203.gif)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: ersi on 2014-02-03, 10:03:15
@Josh
I also have a map on paper titled "World Physical" - in English, but printed in Budapest. You know, when you say "physical map" on the internet, it's like...

Well, I admit your mastery of the English language is superior to any and all of us. You demonstrate it constantly. You even know how the syntax in T&C must be. Everybody else got it wrong, but luckily we have you.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-02-03, 10:03:51
On the Internet you might consider asking for a digital physical map. ;) Although geographical map will do just as well without the ambiguity.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-02-03, 10:41:55
Ersi, you sunavzabirch! :P
Frans &al., I reckon that, as geography having such fields as physical geography, political geography, etc., geographical maps seems to me being a general term - the hyponyms being physical maps, political maps, etc. Am I right?
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-02-03, 10:53:11
In terms of maps I think geographical stands opposed to political. I might be wrong.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-02-03, 10:55:53
Either can I.:beer:
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: ersi on 2014-02-03, 12:09:41

In terms of maps I think geographical stands opposed to political. I might be wrong.
I guess the most proper term is geophysical as distinguished from political, climate, economic, and other.

But don't take my word on it. Josh rules.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-02-03, 12:16:24
We're all wrong!
:beer:
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: ersi on 2014-02-03, 12:27:11
Google's term "terrain" is really apt here. "Terrain map".

Geography means etymologically maps as such, any map. Geology and geophysics may mean mineral contents and structure of the soil. Nothing fits better than "terrain map".
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-02-03, 12:29:32
Still, I believe "geographical" is the general term: "depicting earth".  While the word "map", the lexeme "map", seems to me having far not only geographical or cartographical meaning... Yeah, seems it has applications in biology and mathematics.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-02-03, 12:31:57
Google's term "terrain" is really apt here. "Terrain map".
Maybe...

Geography means etymologically maps as such, any map.
That's cartography.

Geology and geophysics may mean mineral contents and structure of the soil.
I doubt "geophysics".
Nothing fits better than "terrain map".

Maybe...
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: ersi on 2014-02-03, 12:48:30

Geography means etymologically maps as such, any map.
That's cartography.

These terms are overlapping, etymologically. Which is unfortunate. Ptolemy is called geographer, not cartographer, even though he surely made a major contribution to cartographic projections and such.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-02-03, 12:54:32
"He made" - if I, for example, do masturbation, that doesn't mean that "onanist" is my profession.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: ersi on 2014-02-03, 14:13:57
In addition to having great mastery of the English language, you are also a brilliant analogy-inventor. And expert yetimologist.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-02-03, 15:28:37
Yeah, that's me. ;D
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-02-14, 08:57:36
Found some http://www.stockphotography.co.uk/.
Look at this map of Rutland (http://www.stockphotography.co.uk/UK/Maps/Rutland.aspx): is it about topography/relief - or otherwise, what do those colours mean, you think?
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: ersi on 2014-02-14, 09:31:29

Look at this map of Rutland (http://www.stockphotography.co.uk/UK/Maps/Rutland.aspx): is it about topography/relief - or otherwise, what do those colours mean, you think?
Patches of forest? A map without proper legend is a faulty map.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-02-14, 09:44:38
I agree. It may look like they believe everyone KNOWS:nuts:
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-02-14, 09:50:03
Patches of forest?

Compared to this map (http://www.british-towns.net/maps), it might seem to prove that being some forestation indeed...
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-02-15, 08:58:01
A map without proper legend is a faulty map.
You know what?
I think they think if you want free - eat as it is, or you pay and get the legend. ???
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-02-21, 16:41:13
Couldn't find a map of Britain's coastline which titles all the major bays and headlands. Maybe somebody knows how to seek?
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2014-02-26, 13:15:19
There's a wealth of map info @
http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-top-ten/world-top-ten-richest-countries-map.html (http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-top-ten/world-top-ten-richest-countries-map.html)

That's only one instance. Try the full site @
http://www.mapsofworld.com/ (http://www.mapsofworld.com/)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2014-02-26, 16:23:05
I did.
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mapsofworld.com%2Fworld-top-ten%2Fmaps%2Fworld-top-mango-producing-countries.jpg&hash=78658525f3525207c65139eb566bcb08" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-top-ten/maps/world-top-mango-producing-countries.jpg)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2014-02-26, 18:01:51
I did.

I'd seen that one, too. It filled a gap for me about mango production, something that I've been wondering about for years.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2014-02-26, 18:11:41
I wanted to see who had a bigger army than the US. This helped. It wasn't Portugal after all.

I can understand China's need for a large army...to keep N. Korea out. And India's...to keep China out. Ours is to keep Mexicans out, although it doesn't seem to be working.
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.usatoday.com%2Fnews%2F_photos%2F2006%2F03%2F01%2Ftunnel2.jpg&hash=3ef870924e79b534f6289a39bfd91db2" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://images.usatoday.com/news/_photos/2006/03/01/tunnel2.jpg)

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mapsofworld.com%2Fworld-top-ten%2Fmaps%2Fworld-top-ten-countries-with-largest-armies-map.jpg&hash=d8339e67fd28f9decbab004e74676ccb" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-top-ten/maps/world-top-ten-countries-with-largest-armies-map.jpg)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2014-02-26, 19:05:12
The top tens displayed a problem. The richest countries were per capita (otherwise China would be #2, and the Chinese are not particularly rich), with disproportionately many small countries, while the mango army map just as arbitrarily showed the large countries with a strategic mango interest.

For that reason I prefer the geographically based political maps, like the one picking the longest coastlines. Then, Norway is a coastal major power, with a longer coastline than the US, China, or India. (Maybe that's why Opera came up with the brand name Coast?)

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mapsofworld.com%2Fworld-top-ten%2Fmaps%2Fworld-top-ten-longest-coastline-map.jpg&hash=0fd236dfc553afde2c342cf8df6835f3" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-top-ten/maps/world-top-ten-longest-coastline-map.jpg)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2014-02-26, 19:17:09
the mango army map just as arbitrarily showed the large countries with a strategic mango interest.

The mango is a highly strategic product. As such the mango army map is crucial to the Western world. Should mango production fall into the hands of the evil Chinese communists, we're all doomed to a mango-free lifestyle. I'm willing to send you into battle to prevent that happening.

I know all about your sympathies for out communist friends, so beware.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-03-05, 15:46:00
Just tried a zoom satellite view on a town in Yorkshire.
I wonder - what if to try checking at Grand Rapids - could we spot a Jimbro there? :hm:
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-03-06, 10:17:42
Maybe this is something for Josh?

http://www.freetech4teachers.com/2014/03/find-educational-maps-in-google-maps.html
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2014-03-06, 11:41:47
Not that many maps, but some are nice. This one is pretty nostalgic (http://maps.google.com/gallery/details?id=zOOP-1XDYZpk.k_yC8tALqOlo&hl=en).
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-03-06, 13:17:45

Maybe this is something for Josh?

http://www.freetech4teachers.com/2014/03/find-educational-maps-in-google-maps.html
1, I didn't see many points. And the interface is dull (unless there's nothing to make use of - or anyway!).
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-03-06, 13:20:18

Couldn't find a map of Britain's coastline which titles all the major bays and headlands. Maybe somebody knows how to seek?
You know what?
Maybe a Google map will work a certain way: to zoom at a point on the coast - then move/drag the map along. What do you think?
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-03-14, 14:32:53
In Google-like maps, on the satellite view rivers are hardly discernible.
Maybe one should try a bigger one? I mean river...
This is Amber in Derbyshire: http://app.box.com/s/3of48lkt8b9jme1p7gn2.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2014-03-14, 15:36:03
A punishing map:

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fsrsg.violenceagainstchildren.org%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fimages%2FChildrens_world_map_750_565.jpg&hash=843b758ecc9edca3b7eca0ab482a1441" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://srsg.violenceagainstchildren.org/sites/default/files/images/Childrens_world_map_750_565.jpg)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-03-19, 13:08:17
Aol uses some http://www.mapquest.com/ - dumb enough to use it as a primary thing... Couldn't find a poop to wrap the left panel away - as there are such in other similar map services I'm familiar with.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2014-03-19, 21:40:47
A punishing map

I would say a civilizational map. Where civilization stars and finishes.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2014-03-19, 21:52:54


Couldn't find a map of Britain's coastline which titles all the major bays and headlands. Maybe somebody knows how to seek?
You know what?
Maybe a Google map will work a certain way: to zoom at a point on the coast - then move/drag the map along. What do you think?


Ask a fisherman.

No joke. Back in the days before GPS, I occasionally had a time finding street addresses. Sometimes an entire neighborhood wouldn't be on the maps. So, I called the police and got directions.

In the case of the British coast, if I wanted specifics on bays and headlands and so on I would ask a fisherman. He makes his living by knowing these places, so that's my first choice.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2014-03-20, 08:43:56
Or you could ask the fisher of men.
Quote
Now as Jesus was walking by the Sea of Galilee, He saw two brothers, Simon who was called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea; for they were fishermen.

And He said to them, "Follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men."
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-03-21, 17:18:44
I reckon British fishermen don't fish along the whole coast of the Isle, Mike;)  And perhaps they don't draw maps as well! :D
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-04-11, 08:45:26
http://www.maphill.com/
Includes physical maps, terrain maps, and whatnot.:)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: ersi on 2014-04-11, 09:00:19

http://www.maphill.com/
Includes physical maps, terrain maps, and whatnot.:)
Looks like it offers more than it actually has (which is usual on the web, but wrong anyway). I just tried Estonia and terrain. It borrows Google Maps for that. Boring.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-04-11, 09:04:49
Try physical;)
http://www.maphill.com/estonia/maps/physical-map/
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: ersi on 2014-04-11, 09:36:02
Sure they have stuff here and there, but they have more links than stuff. When they have no stuff, the link leads to boring results.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-04-11, 09:44:34
Maybe you're partially right, but I'm just trying to point you out at the very first map. It is physical and interactive (hover your Estonian cursor!).
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2014-04-14, 14:33:59

You could go But there are earlier European empires as well, this map for 800 AD.

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F7%2F7d%2FMediterr%25C3%25A1neo_a%25C3%25B1o_800_dC_1.gif&hash=96271246cddc6adb45b9634ab64d7f68" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7d/Mediterr%C3%A1neo_a%C3%B1o_800_dC_1.gif)
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomenclature_of_Territorial_Units_for_Statistics)

And this one for 200 AD.
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fblogs%2Fworldviews%2Ffiles%2F2013%2F08%2Fn3LCXYT.jpg&hash=a55b441c006fa2141f1a3f406da7c6c3" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/files/2013/08/n3LCXYT.jpg) (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/files/2013/08/n3LCXYT.jpg)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2014-04-15, 14:26:38
Dynamical display data maps at Gapminder (http://www.gapminder.org/data/) are interesting.

This one (http://www.bit.ly/1hHXQ31) is about urbanization (by percentage of population) since 1960 until 2010. I was to put it at the urbanization thread, but what I wanted to point is the interest of knowing how things are evolving when looking to a map instead of just having a fixed, photograph like, image of one moment.

Maybe it is possible to insert such maps inside the post so you can see it "working" but I don't know how to do it.

Another thing, your map of Europe by 800 Ad is incorrect, Jax. Al-Andaluz is the part that is now located in Spain and had given origin to Andalucia. In Portugal was called Al-Gharb, therefore being today Algarve. :)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-04-21, 15:32:35
An interactive map of East Midlands: http://www.maphill.com/united-kingdom/england/east-midlands/maps/physical-map/
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2014-04-21, 15:52:45

Dynamical display data maps at Gapminder (http://www.gapminder.org/data/) are interesting.

This one (http://www.bit.ly/1hHXQ31) is about urbanization (by percentage of population) since 1960 until 2010. I was to put it at the urbanization thread, but what I wanted to point is the interest of knowing how things are evolving when looking to a map instead of just having a fixed, photograph like, image of one moment.

Maybe it is possible to insert such maps inside the post so you can see it "working" but I don't know how to do it.

Another thing, your map of Europe by 800 Ad is incorrect, Jax. Al-Andaluz is the part that is now located in Spain and had given origin to Andalucia. In Portugal was called Al-Gharb, therefore being today Algarve. :)
Gapminder is good, but yes there should be a general way to embed interactive graphs, but there isn't. There might be, but not soon.

On the naming I wouldn't know, but according to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Garb_Al-Andalus), the fount of all wisdom, the name they used was Al-Garb Al-Andalus, West Andalus, which doesn't sound exclusive of also being Andalus.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-04-21, 16:52:59
Pity that Maphill's maps don't extend into quite smaller territories. Such as Great Somethings in the UK. I like physical maps with administrative borders. The adm.subdivisions' titles are welcome though may be optional - because one can refer to another (eg non-physical) map such as an administrative division map (sometimes such latter don't show cities, which is regrettable).
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2014-05-08, 10:44:21
Minimum paid vacation map (http://ispol.com/sasha/vacation.html)

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fispol.com%2Fsasha%2Fvacation.gif&hash=442615229b58114b929a5206d7beef7a" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://ispol.com/sasha/vacation.gif) (http://ispol.com/sasha/vacation.gif)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2014-05-08, 11:04:12
All the world's countries in a single pass

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FZYh2nTK.jpg&hash=f4440c91b6159600cf6918a041a7bb43" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/ZYh2nTK.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/ZYh2nTK.jpg)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2014-05-08, 11:31:55
Coup forecast for 2014 (http://dartthrowingchimp.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/forecast-heatmap-2014.png)

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fdartthrowingchimp.files.wordpress.com%2F2014%2F01%2Fforecast-heatmap-2014.png&hash=339e4cb6b991a663d43cb9b9164b28af" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://dartthrowingchimp.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/forecast-heatmap-2014.png)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Banned Member [2] on 2014-05-08, 12:22:54
Antarctica and Greenland covered with ice, huh?:rolleyes:
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2014-05-08, 14:21:04
Greenland (pop 50,000) might secede from Denmark the moment oil or some profitable resource were found that would exceed the value of the annual transfers. Until then they don't have a national government to have a coup against.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Banned Member [2] on 2014-05-08, 14:37:05
Yeah, the States are low but do still have a government... And a SmileyFaze to overthrow it.:D
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2014-05-08, 14:44:44
The world divided into areas of 100 million people
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ziaruldeiasi.ro%2Fapp%2Fgethumb.details.php%3Fid%3D70669%26amp%3Bw%3D880%26amp%3Bh%3D660&hash=ecae0a89a2ab833a4108e990b212c1f7" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.ziaruldeiasi.ro/app/gethumb.details.php?id=70669&w=880&h=660) (http://p.im9.eu/mapporn-the-world-divided-into-regions-with-a-population-of-100-000-000-people-4500x2200-oc.jpg)

The world divided in areas of 1 trillion dollar GDP
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.boredpanda.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F02%2Ffun-maps-2-13.jpg&hash=2e41615432da722abc8e6099999e2c3d" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.boredpanda.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/fun-maps-2-13.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/NRefv2R.png)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2014-05-08, 15:42:08
Or even simpler, each region one billion people. Currently the Americas, Europe, and Africa have one billion each, while Asia has four. Later Asia and Africa are expected to get one more billion each.

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FBMTK5.png&hash=72ee024e30ee2dad9be99b9e2919a03e" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/BMTK5.png)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Banned Member [3] on 2014-05-20, 10:08:48
Currently the Americas, Europe, and Africa have one billion each...
Wrong.
Can't you read your own map????
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2014-05-21, 13:34:39
A legend would have been a help. The maps by themselves tell me squat unless there's something to tell me what the pretty colors actually mean.

A billion people in the Americas? OK, the United States has one side or the other of 300,000,000 in it, so it doesn't take much for the rest of the Americas to make up the difference. Good thing too, because there's vast stretches of Canada where the only living thing you'll see all day is a caribou. I'd have to look up the populations of the various South American countries, and of course Mexico has more than a handful to contribute to the count, so yeah, it's possible that we have a billion somewhere about here.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-05-21, 13:52:31
A billion people in the Americas?
No.
With Australia and New Zealand together.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2014-05-21, 14:04:01

A billion people in the Americas?
No.
With Australia and New Zealand together.


I rest my case. Without a legend, the pretty colors don't mean much.

I suppose Australia and New Zealand have to be with somebody else to get to a billion, most of Australia's population is on its Eastern coast-- the outback not being overpopulated--. New Zealand is a couple of rather small islands so of course it doesn't have a lot of people.

RJH has reported more than once that the UK has about 70 million people. The premier of China wants to know what hotel they're staying at.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-05-21, 14:18:53


A billion people in the Americas?
No.
With Australia and New Zealand together.


I rest my case. Without a legend, the pretty colors don't mean much.

I suppose Australia and New Zealand have to be with somebody else to get to a billion, most of Australia's population is on its Eastern coast-- the outback not being overpopulated--. New Zealand is a couple of rather small islands so of course it doesn't have a lot of people.


Your point is taken.
Pertaining to the thread, you're right about the necessity of legends; while the tripe about the number of people is derivative from a questionable map.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-05-21, 20:40:31
I suppose Australia and New Zealand have to be with somebody else to get to a billion, most of Australia's population is on its Eastern coast-- the outback not being overpopulated--. New Zealand is a couple of rather small islands so of course it doesn't have a lot of people.

I believe the two together house about as many people as the Benelux (i.e. approximately 28 million). That's not quite as much cause for nitpicking as the hundreds of millions in the Middle East that bring "Europe" to a billion. ;)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2014-05-22, 21:42:26
A good geographical map needs to have altimetric curves.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2014-05-23, 03:17:09
I rest my case. Without a legend, the pretty colors don't mean much.

I suppose Australia and New Zealand have to be with somebody else to get to a billion, most of Australia's population is on its Eastern coast-- the outback not being overpopulated--. New Zealand is a couple of rather small islands so of course it doesn't have a lot of people.


The pretty colours is the legend. How the world actually is grouped into 100 million people, 1 trillion $, or 1000 million people is ultimately arbitrary, you could gerrymander the regions if you were so inclined, but it wouldn't be telling you as much as more "natural" divisions.


The population of Australia is 0.02 billion, the population of New Zealand, Greenland, and Iceland is 0.00 billion each. They could be grouped with any billion without tipping the scale. It is a question of the mapographer's taste/whim.

The billion people guy presumably thought of Oceania as New World (a cultural distinction, and Australia in particular is very old world as far as human culture is concerned), but bunched Greenland and Iceland with the Americas, which is a geographical grouping (Iceland is on the Mid-Atlantic Ridge, and could go either way).

The other two maps were grouped differently as far as these countries (and others, of course) are concerned.


A better criticism of the maps might be the choice of projection used. It uses equirectangular projection, which distorts the areas depending on the location on the planet, regions near the poles seem larger and wider. Since these three maps compare areas (smaller areas have higher population/economic density), a projection that didn't distort areas might be preferred, for instance this one:

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F7%2F75%2FBottomley_projection_SW.JPG%2F1024px-Bottomley_projection_SW.JPG&hash=93b6286b7c74219e18c5d15f9f77b165" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/75/Bottomley_projection_SW.JPG/1024px-Bottomley_projection_SW.JPG)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-05-23, 05:21:51
The population of Australia is 0.02 billion, the population of New Zealand, Greenland, and Iceland is 0.00 billion each. They could be grouped with any billion without tipping the scale. It is a question of the mapographer's taste/whim.

The billion people guy presumably thought of Oceania as New World (a cultural distinction, and Australia in particular is very old world as far as human culture is concerned), but bunched Greenland and Iceland with the Americas, which is a geographical grouping (Iceland is on the Mid-Atlantic Ridge, and could go either way).

I don't know; the Americas by themselves are actually estimated to be just about 50 million short of a billion. Adding most of Oceania and other Pacific islands does nicely top it off to one billion.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2014-05-23, 10:39:10
But that is small change, the numbers aren't fixed, and will change a day or a month from now. The Americas will still remain "roughly one billion" next decade as well.

Interestingly, according to Google, the world GDP was 72 trillion in 2012. That means that it is not illusion that the number of areas in the two look so similar, they are similar, around 70 (72) in total that year.


The world divided into areas of 100 million people
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ziaruldeiasi.ro%2Fapp%2Fgethumb.details.php%3Fid%3D70669%26amp%3Bw%3D880%26amp%3Bh%3D660&hash=ecae0a89a2ab833a4108e990b212c1f7" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.ziaruldeiasi.ro/app/gethumb.details.php?id=70669&w=880&h=660) (http://p.im9.eu/mapporn-the-world-divided-into-regions-with-a-population-of-100-000-000-people-4500x2200-oc.jpg)

The world divided in areas of 1 trillion dollar GDP
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.boredpanda.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F02%2Ffun-maps-2-13.jpg&hash=2e41615432da722abc8e6099999e2c3d" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.boredpanda.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/fun-maps-2-13.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/NRefv2R.png)


We could group the economic map into 7 areas of 10 trillion to create an economic grouping of seven like the billion map. Then South America would have about 1/2 (like the population), North and Central America 1 1/2, Europe another 2. Just like Asia dominates world's population, North America and Europe still dominate the world's economy, while Africa, South and South-East Asia have minimal economic impact (for the time being).
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2014-05-23, 11:27:43
Those maps are very strange.
The first one, 100 million people areas, each area with a certain color.

So, Portugal (10 miilion) + a part of Spain (60 million in total, the selected part it's the less populated let's estimate 20 millions) + Ireland (6 million) + Greenland (what? five thousand people there?) + Canada (35 million) =70 million.
So, not enough, let's add Alaska too. Not enough.
That African part around Angola, in the same blue color, also counts?

And why not to add Sri Lanka, Vanuatu, etc?
Strange criteria to compose zones indeed.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2014-05-23, 14:43:40
Yes, some of these territories were oddly chosen, and the Portugal-to-Alaska area probably the strangest of them all. I think it was meant as a Trans-Atlantic area to take the "leftover population" from Europe and North America, but that it fell short and went all the way to the Bering Strait.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-05-23, 17:58:56
I also seem to be getting the impression that Germany on that 100 million map looks suspiciously like the German Empire.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-05-31, 15:37:17
http://www.boredpanda.com/interesting-maps/

This collection of maps looks like a summary of what jax has posted over the past few months.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2014-05-31, 20:02:29
This collection of maps looks like a summary of what jax has posted over the past few months.
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/index.php?action=reporttm;topic=144.110;msg=20911)

You should let Jax amuse himself...
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2014-06-01, 13:47:48

http://www.boredpanda.com/interesting-maps/

This collection of maps looks like a summary of what jax has posted over the past few months.


I think around half of those maps I've posted in this thread have been recycled through the reddit-imgur complex (including bored panda, though not many by that site). I'm not sure if that is a good or bad thing.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2014-06-02, 21:16:31
Does anyone ever heard about the maps of Piri Reis?
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: ersi on 2014-06-03, 05:08:06
Piri Reis is interesting, but I have found I am the only one interested in it. What about it, Belfrager?

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/50/Piri_Reis_map_interpretation_RG.jpg)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2014-06-03, 09:27:36
Well, you point it very well Ersi.

Besides the extreme beauty of his maps, they had a very high level of detail for the time being and, specially, it were the first maps to integrate a global vision that made coherency to partial views from other navigators.

A certain discussion was maintained for some time that Piri Reis was aware of geographical facts that European navigators couldn't know about but that was not true.

Being an Ottoman he also gave a couple headaches to the Portuguese, but that you don't need to know. :)

Anyway, I thought his maps were a delightful counterweight to the technical data driven maps we use to see here.

Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2014-06-03, 12:37:58
In my last "job", I used the Chicagoland 7-County Atlas. It was good for a few years but then started to drop off at the outer counties. The last copy I have has about half of Kane County missing, a sizable chunk of Will County missing, and don't get me started about what the map guys did to McHenry County. It didn't help that, in place of roads they used to show, they had "Here thar be dragons" listed in the margins. With drawings of what the dragon might look like.

A real pity, too. During the peak time for these maps, they were the best tools I could lay my hands on. Now they're nearly useless for anything outside of Cook and Du Page Counties, and I wouldn't rely too heavily on these atlases for Du Page County, either.

Hmmm..... could that be a dragon's lair I see beyond Ill. Rte 47?

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwebbiquity.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F03%2Fhere-be-dragons.jpg&hash=6112269ec51c4951046228769ff4ebb6" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://webbiquity.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/here-be-dragons.jpg)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Macallan on 2014-06-03, 12:47:12

I also seem to be getting the impression that Germany on that 100 million map looks suspiciously like the German Empire.

Pure coincidence I'm sure :right:
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Macallan on 2014-06-03, 12:51:20

Being an Ottoman he also gave a couple headaches to the Portuguese, but that you don't need to know. :)

Yeah, their intelligence service seems to have worked quite well ( or they were really good at keeping their exploration trips a secret ) :right:
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-06-03, 14:22:14
Here's another one of what Belfrager seems to have dubbed jaxian maps:
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fthumbnails.visually.netdna-cdn.com%2Fworld-commodities-map_536bebb20436a_w1200.png&hash=c0ba9062e98738be5e6cd57e4fababa4" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://thumbnails.visually.netdna-cdn.com/world-commodities-map_536bebb20436a_w1200.png)
http://www.businessinsider.com/every-countrys-highest-valued-export-2014-5
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-06-03, 14:58:01

Does anyone ever heard about the maps of Piri Reis?
Is that the person who created those freakishly detailed maps of Antarctica, very popular among Atlantis enthusiasts?

Btw, do you know the Dutch and German word for travel or journey? ;)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: ersi on 2014-06-03, 16:44:07


Does anyone ever heard about the maps of Piri Reis?
Is that the person who created those freakishly detailed maps of Antarctica, very popular among Atlantis enthusiasts?

Not sure if you are kidding or the rumours really go this way in your area. Piri Reis created the map of central areas of Atlantic ocean, not the entire ocean. If he did more, it's not preserved, but the extant copies imply he didn't get anywhere near Antarctica.

Still, the preserved work is nicely detailed. So detailed that it's a wonder why Arabs didn't manage to conquer the Atlantic the way they had the Indian ocean.

Also the commentaries in the map are interesting. Among other things, it says that a guy called Colombo found a book that said there were treasure islands to the other side of the Atlantic. Inspired by this book, he nagged on the King and Queen of Spain until he got ships to go find the treasure islands.


Btw, do you know the Dutch and German word for travel or journey? ;)

The same word has been incidentally borrowed into Estonian. Piri Reis sounds like "border trip". Wikipedia says the ruler of Egypt had him beheaded because he refused to engage another campaign against the Portuguese.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-06-03, 19:01:38
Not sure if you are kidding or the rumours really go this way in your area. Piri Reis created the map of central areas of Atlantic ocean, not the entire ocean. If he did more, it's not preserved, but the extant copies imply he didn't get anywhere near Antarctica.

I have no idea what "area" Atlantis, UFO and whatnot enthusiasts live. I imagine they're spread throughout the world. Though I probably should've put some kind of quotes (although it's not a literal quotation) around "freakishly detailed".

The same word has been incidentally borrowed into Estonian. Piri Reis sounds like "border trip". Wikipedia says the ruler of Egypt had him beheaded because he refused to engage another campaign against the Portuguese.

I only know the word piri from piri piri. So I guess Piri Reis sounds like "hot pepper journey". However, something like "Piri Reis-kaart" sounds a bit like a map of the Piri journey. However, it would be far more idiomatic to use that latter turn of phrase, "kaart van de Pirireis".
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: ersi on 2014-06-03, 19:26:07

I have no idea what "area" Atlantis, UFO and whatnot enthusiasts live. I imagine they're spread throughout the world.

When I said "your area", I was pointing out the fact that the enthusiasm of Atlantis enthusiasts who were also enthusiastic about the map of Piri Reis has reached you, but hasn't reached me. Could be the kind of circles of people we have contact with or the kind of books we read. I did not imply that you were one of them, even though I admittedly made it sound like they could be your neighbours or so. It should be clear enough that you are not necessarily similar in any way to your neighbours.

Anyway, I can be more readily described as an Atlantis enthusiast, because I have a few books that mention Atlantis. One of them a huge book of photos, titled The Atlas of Atlantis. Somehow it doesn't mention the map of Piri Reis though, IIRC. And I have no contact with any real-life Atlantis enthusiasts, so I am not properly in their club.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Macallan on 2014-06-03, 19:27:03

Though I probably should've put some kind of quotes (although it's not a literal quotation) around "freakishly detailed".

Sarcasm tags? :left:
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-06-03, 20:23:24
Somehow it doesn't mention the map of Piri Reis though, IIRC.

Quote from: Charles Berlitz, The Bermuda Triangle (1974)
The Piri Reis Map, found in Istanbul in 1929, is part of a world map said to have been copied from a Greek original in the Library of Alexandria. Among other features, the Piri Reis map shows detailed features of Antarctica evidently drawn several thousand years before Antarctica was "discovered," as well as the true shape of Antarctica without the covering ice. Other features indicate an advanced knowledge of astronomy, trigonometry,  and  the ability to determine longitude, not known to our culture until the reign of George III of England.

[Edit: more here (http://bermuda-triangle.org/the_piri_reis_map_and_atlantis.html)]

Sarcasm tags?

Something like that. :lol:
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: ersi on 2014-06-03, 20:46:10
Aha, Berlitz and Däniken. You are much more enthusiastic about Atlantis than I am. Those guys never entered my horizon.

Once upon a time I for a moment considered buying a book by Blavatsky - in Russian because it's dirt cheap -, but the moment passed without any action. Blavatsky mentions Atlantis, so I have heard.

The Atlas of Atlantis that I mentioned, you can find it on Amazon. There's no paranormalcy in that book, just a bit of deliberate mystification.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2014-06-03, 22:15:42
The image that Ersi posted with the comparison from the north shore of South America and a Piri Reis map shows clearly what those idiots taught to be a representation of the Antarctic.

Atlantis bullshit deserves an entire new thread just to deal with it. Atlantis, the triangle of Bermudas and the Eurovision Song Contest.

Now, Piri was a Turkish name and Reis the Turkish word for Admiral. Well, not exactly Turkish since Turkey was the creation of one man, Aka Turk, at the last century.
Ottoman, I suppose it will be right to say.

Not to confuse Piri - the Admiral, with piri-piri, the Portuguese word for very hot sauce that we created as an onomatopoeic interpretation of the sounds the rudimentary natives made to describe such hot sauce.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2014-12-14, 12:09:21
A map of the countries of the world with country size based on the number of languages spoken there. Nearly monolingual Europe almost disappears from the map, while Papua New Guinea turns into a continent. The map is in the Swedish dialect of English so Kina = China, Kamerun = Cameroon, and the ending -en would be -a (e.g. Indien = India).

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2F21onuv2o3diqcdqccz3o9c12iv.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2009%2F12%2Flangpapngmap23434.jpg&hash=4d49211cf8788c14411959529e7f65f2" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://21onuv2o3diqcdqccz3o9c12iv.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/langpapngmap23434.jpg)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2014-12-14, 15:25:01
This bunch of maps were collated here (http://www.vox.com/2014/11/17/7082317/language-maps-charts). This EU map may confirm my suspicion that European language skills atrophy, that Europeans tend to know their own language and English, while the command of tertiary languages like French, German, Russian... as a foreign language is diminishing, and world languages like Arabic, Standard Chinese, Hindi-Urdu haven't yet taken up the slack.

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fjakubmarian.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F10%2Fmedian-of-languages.jpg&hash=688d8ea80238da7b5d660d2ea8fb7be8" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://jakubmarian.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/median-of-languages.jpg)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-12-14, 19:58:28
This EU map may confirm my suspicion that European language skills atrophy, that Europeans tend to know their own language and English, while the command of tertiary languages like French, German, Russian... as a foreign language is diminishing, and world languages like Arabic, Standard Chinese, Hindi-Urdu haven't yet taken up the slack.

But does it really, except perhaps for the UK? I believe that all over Europe it would be more accurate to say that English has taken over the role of French than to say that knowledge of foreign languages has diminished. Here in Flanders, for instance, people by and large used to speak fairly decent French and poor English. In Germany something similar applies. English has replaced French post-WW2, but that doesn't mean Germans on average used to speak decent English and French. Even in a country like Romania (1.5 languages according to the map) people all used to speak broken French as a foreign language, but now they speak broken English instead. Heck, it applies even to me. My French is like my dad's English: adequate -- or rather, broken so as not to sound like I'm singling out Romanians. ;) France has never been big on foreign languages in the first place. It wouldn't surprise me if 50 years ago you would've been able to flip the UK and France around.

world languages like Arabic, Standard Chinese, Hindi-Urdu

To be a world language you need many non-native speakers and not just from a few neighboring regions. And anyway, if Arabic or Standard Chinese are one language then so is (Vulgar) Latin. Maybe that explains why most people in Portugal are counted as speaking only one language. :P
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: ersi on 2014-12-14, 23:09:02
Something's seriously wrong with that map. My perception is that smaller peoples always speak more languages, so I find it impossible that e.g. Hungarians speak one, while Austrians allegedly three.*

According to my experience, having visited the country a few times, Romanians are routinely able to speak foreign languages such as English, German, French, and Italian. And I got by with Russian there too. Never did I encounter a Romanian who would not know at least some foreign language. And at least French and Italian are related closely enough to give them an advantage even without a need to study.

* Edit: Oops, I read wrong. It's Slovenians three. Austrians have two. Anyway, Hungarians and Romanians should also have it somewhere in the rank of three.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2014-12-14, 23:21:57
I'm sorta surprised that the US figured as highly as it did. Obviously, a number of people from South of the border speak some sort of Spanish, and we have enclaves of people from all over who speak their native tongues and-- supposedly at least-- try to learn the local English dialects. But, many a native-born US citizen speaks only his mother tongue-- and gets enraged when "immigrants" don't/won't/can't learn it fast enough. We even have people pushing to make English the national language-- presently I don't think we have a legally recognized "national language" but I could be wrong. We're trying to be near monolithic in our language, and that-- on your map-- would make the USA almost invisible.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: rjhowie on 2014-12-15, 01:18:30
Bing does a good service and giving a choice of satellite, bird's eye or road.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2014-12-15, 07:50:17
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.articque.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fsites%2F8%2F2013%2F06%2Fmap-linguistic-diversity-around-the-world-2010.jpg&hash=9171b6c22acfe71f2c02da5f24b2a3d5" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.articque.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/8/2013/06/map-linguistic-diversity-around-the-world-2010.jpg)

I'm sorta surprised that the US figured as highly as it did.


The first map counts the number of languages, not the number of people speaking them. PNG is thus a linguistic world power (http://www.ethnologue.com/country/PG) even though fairly few are speaking the languages (5 to 122,000 native speakers). By the way the statistics is made (http://www.ethnologue.com/statistics), the languages are keyed to a primary country, which seems to be the country of origin. Thus English, Portugese, French, and Spanish are counted as European languages, not American languages. So by region:



Why are there so few languages in Europe? In short: empires. The Roman empire alone dramatically reduced linguistic diversity in Europe. To this day a large part of the European (and American) population speak a Latin-based Romance language, the Pre-Roman languages long gone. As it is, a small group of languages, the Indo-European language group, has taken over much of the world.

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.geocurrents.info%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F01%2FIndo-European-Language-Family-Map.png&hash=e05bef77ee85c4b77fc114b85f8ad6ac" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.geocurrents.info/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Indo-European-Language-Family-Map.png)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-12-15, 09:22:44
* Edit: Oops, I read wrong. It's Slovenians three. Austrians have two. Anyway, Hungarians and Romanians should also have it somewhere in the rank of three.

Well, Hungary is one of the few places in Europe where I had trouble expressing myself verbally outside of the more touristy areas. Perhaps if I spoke Polish or Russian I might've had better luck, but generally my experience has been that in case of no English, there's always German or French. On the other hand, some people in Hungary speak some darn good Dutch! Anyway, I perceived a clear age-gap, probably Cold War related. Hungarian people my age were fluent in English and several other languages (including Dutch!); older people (40+?) often didn't seem to share any languages with me.

I also wonder what criteria the map uses. I'd be inclined to say I speak only three languages, even if I'm capable of reading French well enough because I can't hold anything more than basic conversations in French and because I can't think in French. In other words, I have a primarily passive knowledge of French. But if it's self-reported, you might imagine Dutch people claiming they speak French and German because -- let's face it -- our bigger neighbors may barely even have a passive knowledge of multiple languages.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Sanguinemoon on 2014-12-15, 12:35:54
But, many a native-born US citizen speaks only his mother tongue-- and gets enraged when "immigrants" don't/won't/can't learn it fast enough.

The only surprise here is that the US isn't larger.  Typically you get two years of foreign language in High School, more in college. In addition, you have servicemen picking up other languages while posted overseas.

I find this  (https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=1006053108648)comment ironic:

Quote
skifaster6 answered 9 years ago
5% tops. We make it to easy on them. I have made a personal pact never to hire anyone that does not speak 100% good english from now on for my company. Everyone else should do the same. You want to live here, then speak the language or get the hell out...


It would appear the poster that demands people speak English doesn't know the language all that well himself. Anyway, the folks that are enraged would be so much if they didn't upset themselves so much, especially over non-issue. The  data  (http://www.prb.org/Publications/Articles/2006/IntheNewsSpeakingEnglishintheUnitedStates.aspx) shows that new arrivals indeed are learning English. Having said that, I understand how the enraged folks get their incorrect impressions: telephone IVRs saying "Press 1 for English..." bilingual food cans, them speaking Spanish among themselves.

I have a personal story. I'm only second generation American born on father's side. At Christmas as my Sicilian grandparents' house, the adults spoke Italian sometimes among themselves. They also spoke perfect English.

A quote from the article:

Quote
"The last people you have to tell that English is important are immigrants," says Rumbaut. "English is already the de facto language of the country and of the world."

Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2014-12-15, 13:03:32

Something's seriously wrong with that map. My perception is that smaller peoples always speak more languages, so I find it impossible that e.g. Hungarians speak one, while [Slovenians] allegedly three.

The trick there is that the European map showed median number of languages. In other words based on the numbers about half the population spoke one language (presumably Hungarian, as that is obligatory in school), and at least 45% spoke two or more languages. This applies for the other 1 1/2 countries as well. Countries like Ireland, marked as 1, would have less than 45% speaking Irish or other non-English language. The typical Dane, Dutch, Slovenian would speak 3 languages, but some would speak more.

The same guy (http://jakubmarian.com/average-number-of-languages-spoken-by-the-eu-population/) also made a map using the (arithmetic) mean, average, number of languages.

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fjakubmarian.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F10%2Fnumber-of-languages.jpg&hash=15b25a825739fc746e0883cf34b792a0" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://jakubmarian.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/number-of-languages.jpg)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2014-12-15, 13:10:56

But, many a native-born US citizen speaks only his mother tongue-- and gets enraged when "immigrants" don't/won't/can't learn it fast enough.

The only surprise here is that the US isn't larger.  Typically you get two years of foreign language in High School, more in college. In addition, you have servicemen picking up other languages while posted overseas.

I find this  (https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=1006053108648)comment ironic:

Quote
skifaster6 answered 9 years ago
5% tops. We make it to easy on them. I have made a personal pact never to hire anyone that does not speak 100% good english from now on for my company. Everyone else should do the same. You want to live here, then speak the language or get the hell out...


It would appear the poster that demands people speak English doesn't know the language all that well himself. Anyway, the folks that are enraged would be so much if they didn't upset themselves so much, especially over non-issue. The  data  (http://www.prb.org/Publications/Articles/2006/IntheNewsSpeakingEnglishintheUnitedStates.aspx) shows that new arrivals indeed are learning English. Having said that, I understand how the enraged folks get their incorrect impressions: telephone IVRs saying "Press 1 for English..." bilingual food cans, them speaking Spanish among themselves.

I have a personal story. I'm only second generation American born on father's side. At Christmas as my Sicilian grandparents' house, the adults spoke Italian sometimes among themselves. They also spoke perfect English.

A quote from the article:

Quote
"The last people you have to tell that English is important are immigrants," says Rumbaut. "English is already the de facto language of the country and of the world."



One complaint heard is that if you go to a foreign country--- Spain as an example-- you would have to learn Spanish if you expect to live and work there. Maybe, maybe not. If Jax's maps are any indication it's possible to get by just on the English language in a large part of the world because people make an effort to learn it at least as their secondary language-- for professional reasons if for no other. People who primarily speak English seem to have the most trouble with other languages-- we can't stop looking down at others long enough to even try to learn any other language, then have the nerve to yip at others for not learning English.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-12-15, 13:46:50
One complaint heard is that if you go to a foreign country--- Spain as an example-- you would have to learn Spanish if you expect to live and work there. Maybe, maybe not.

Who cares what stupid things Spain (or the Netherlands or Denmark) requires of immigrants? The simple fact is that someone who's been living and working in the Netherlands for 40 years, yet has a somewhat lacking command of Dutch, is clearly getting by just fine. It's one of those things that get implemented for fear of mythical Muslims who don't want to work and just lazily pray to Allah all day while they aren't planning terrorist attacks. Meanwhile, how this affects people who command of the English language but not necessarily Dutch is far more damaging to the economy. I also know plenty of stories of people who moved to Belgium, Germany, Italy, Brazil, etc. instead if the Dutch state wanted to make such a problem out of their foreign partner. In other words, completely self-caused brain drain.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2014-12-15, 15:39:37
But does it really, except perhaps for the UK? I believe that all over Europe it would be more accurate to say that English has taken over the role of French than to say that knowledge of foreign languages has diminished. Here in Flanders, for instance, people by and large used to speak fairly decent French and poor English. In Germany something similar applies. English has replaced French post-WW2, but that doesn't mean Germans on average used to speak decent English and French. Even in a country like Romania (1.5 languages according to the map) people all used to speak broken French as a foreign language, but now they speak broken English instead. Heck, it applies even to me. My French is like my dad's English: adequate -- or rather, broken so as not to sound like I'm singling out Romanians. ;) France has never been big on foreign languages in the first place. It wouldn't surprise me if 50 years ago you would've been able to flip the UK and France around.

world languages like Arabic, Standard Chinese, Hindi-Urdu

To be a world language you need many non-native speakers and not just from a few neighboring regions. And anyway, if Arabic or Standard Chinese are one language then so is (Vulgar) Latin. Maybe that explains why most people in Portugal are counted as speaking only one language. :P


Agree, it cannot actually be read from the map (thus the weasely 'may'), though my impression is that German, French and Russian have been loosing out a foreign language the last couple decades. Russian for obvious reasons, for French and German (and other European languages) I should probably look closer at the data first.

Europe has become a more open place, with Europeans working in other countries than their own. That should imply better rather than worse language skills, and it probably has for this group, but for those that have stayed put, the opposite seems to be the trend, including neighbouring languages. It may not be surprising that Czechs are poorer in Slovak and vice versa now that we have Slovakia and the Czech Republic instead of Czechoslovakia, but the same trend can be seen in the Nordic countries. A lot of Swedes work in Norway, but the Norwegian command of Swedish is worsening. For imperial reasons Icelanders used to learn Danish, and Finns Swedish, but this seems less the case today.

Increasingly English may become the lingua franca in Europe, and the motivations for learning further languages might diminish. Or might not, this may not be the whole picture.

It's true that Standard Chinese isn't currently much of a world language. The primary speakers of Chinese languages outside China is the Chinese diaspora, and they are just as likely to speak other Chinese languages as Standard Chinese. That's not the case for Arabic, as it is the official language of the Quran and Islam, pretty much like Latin has been for Catholicism, and with some of the same problems as well.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: ersi on 2014-12-15, 16:19:29
@jax

The other language skills map of Europe, the one with arithmetic average, still hurts my expectations which are based on solid anecdotal evidence. Hungarians and Romanians still allegedly know noticeably less languages than Austrians and Germans. This doesn't seem right.

However, a possible reason for the deviation(s) in the map may be that in some countries the respondents included immigrants or descendants of immigrants. This would skew the average for countries that have a large immigrant population who still retain their ethnic language, say Turks in Germany and Austria. Then again, this should skew UK too, but maybe there immigrant population happened to be methodically ignored when the study was conducted? Whereas countries with negligible language minorities, such as Hungary, would inevitably bring their own organic language skills onto the map.


A lot of Swedes work in Norway, but the Norwegian command of Swedish is worsening.

Not sure how language skills between Norway and Sweden can worsen when they actually employ the same language, just label it differently for political reasons. In Swedish radio when Norwegians are interviewed, they leave it untranslated. I have learned Swedish and at the same go I know Norwegian. Not a surprise for me, I knew it would happen.


Increasingly English may become the lingua franca in Europe, and the motivations for learning further languages might diminish. Or might not, this may not be the whole picture.

I think it would have been a good idea to make Latin the official language of EU, so all MEP's would have a bad time learning it. Bad time is what they deserve. Otherwise they do pointless things like translate EU constitution into SMS (http://www.dw.de/eu-constitution-in-sms-language/a-1164524-1).
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-01-03, 19:33:01
All those maps are a fraud.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2015-01-04, 16:00:43
Seems that you want 26 charts and maps that show the world is getting much, much better (http://www.vox.com/2014/11/24/7272929/charts-thankful).
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Frenzie on 2015-01-04, 16:11:31
"We've rapidly reduced the supply of nuclear weapons"

I wonder how that translates into kilotons.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2015-01-04, 17:16:42
I think the general trend is towards smaller weapons (though tactical warheads seem thankfully to be of the past), but I'm not sure more than 10,000 hanging around is something to be overly cheerful about.  (The article cheated, it's mostly charts, rather few maps.)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Macallan on 2015-01-07, 08:36:27
Hmm, I wonder how much of chart #1 takes things like inflation, differences in cost of living etc. into account. Especially cost of living. Even $10 a day won't get you anywhere in the US or .de, but it would buy significantly more food elsewhere.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2015-01-07, 12:56:45
It is inflation and PPP-adjusted (PPP 2005) (http://www.ourworldindata.org/data/growth-and-distribution-of-prosperity/world-poverty/#share-of-population-living-in-absolute-poverty-by-world-region-1981-2001-max-roserref), using World Bank as source.

There are some other nice graphs there as well, including an attempt to combine poverty as an absolute term, and how financially poor they feel, "satisfied with standard of living".

There are some issues with the dollar-a-day approach, Dollar benchmark: The rise of the $1-a-day statistic (http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-17312819)
Quote from: BBC
It's shocking to learn how many people live on less than $1 day - and regular publication of the figures over the last two decades has helped fuel anti-poverty campaigns. But could the statistic actually have done more harm than good?

In the late 1980s, a group of economists at the World Bank in Washington DC noticed that a number of developing countries drew their poverty lines at an income of about $370 a year.

This reflected the basic amount that a person needed to live. Each country had a different sense of what the essentials were, but the figure of roughly $370 was common to all, so the World Bank team proposed it as a global poverty line.

Some time later one of these economists, Martin Ravallion, was having dinner with his wife and, as they chatted, he had what he described as a kind of "epiphany".

If you divide that $370 by 365 days, you get just over $1. And so the catchy "$1-a-day"' concept was born.

Simple, powerful and shocking.

"We intended to have some impact with it," Martin Ravallion recalls. "Make well-heeled people realise how poor many people in the world are."

But it's a lot more complicated, and controversial, than it at first appears.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Frenzie on 2015-01-07, 13:28:29
So 60 cents food & living, 40 cents other stuff? Doesn't that sound familiar...
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-01-28, 22:48:49
The same guy (http://jakubmarian.com/average-number-of-languages-spoken-by-the-eu-population/) also made a map using the (arithmetic) mean, average, number of languages.

Lies, lies, lies.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Frenzie on 2015-02-19, 09:11:36
Here's a map of noise pollution in the US: http://www.newsweek.com/map-shows-loudest-and-quietest-places-us-307392

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fs.newsweek.com%2Fsites%2Fwww.newsweek.com%2Ffiles%2Fstyles%2Fheadline%2Fpublic%2F2015%2F02%2F17%2Fnoise-map.jpg%3Fitok%3D-xNCuves&hash=6e295e51b258a6e0544588763921d125" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://s.newsweek.com/sites/www.newsweek.com/files/styles/headline/public/2015/02/17/noise-map.jpg?itok=-xNCuves)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Barulheira on 2015-02-19, 10:07:31
Seas are quite noisy nowadays. :left:
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Frenzie on 2015-02-19, 10:14:16
Have been since the early 20th century at the latest, I'd think.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Barulheira on 2015-02-19, 12:52:45
And this was unexpected: Whales Are Being Killed by Noise Pollution (http://www.newsweek.com/2014/04/11/whales-are-being-killed-noise-pollution-248069.html)!
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-02-19, 21:52:59
noise pollution in the US

Total silence drives people mad.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Frenzie on 2015-02-20, 20:23:45
Noise pollution refers to annoying stuff like cars and other machinery, not to regular background noise.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-02-20, 22:50:24
Noise pollution refers to annoying stuff like cars and other machinery, not to regular background noise.

You mean nostalgic sounds as birds singing in the forest? Birds singing in the forest are not compatible with the consumerism people wants.
Give people noise until they turn absolutely mad, maybe then birds sings again. Flying over a cuckoo's nest.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Sanguinemoon on 2015-02-23, 06:30:53
Noise pollution?

Strangely, noise pollution from our airport has decreased, as shown in this map.

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.reviewjournal.com%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Ffield%2Fmedia%2Fmccarran_noise_map.jpg&hash=212654f675c68d99317bbfb6756bebe5" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.reviewjournal.com/sites/default/files/field/media/mccarran_noise_map.jpg)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-02-23, 07:08:59
Strangely, noise pollution from our airport has decreased

It's not strange, airplanes do less noise these days, besides they take off without full power on for accomplishing stricter noise regulations (or ban the Concorde...) . Then surprise accidents happens.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2015-05-29, 12:32:26
Pangea world map, a little out of date.

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-j6ZGqXskUm8%2FUDem8twbzaI%2FAAAAAAAACfY%2Ffs-E3_PR-N8%2Fs1600%2Fpangea_politik.jpg&hash=5eb4a57c838ddfd65fac6129c0caa5d7" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-j6ZGqXskUm8/UDem8twbzaI/AAAAAAAACfY/fs-E3_PR-N8/s1600/pangea_politik.jpg) (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-j6ZGqXskUm8/UDem8twbzaI/AAAAAAAACfY/fs-E3_PR-N8/s1600/pangea_politik.jpg)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Frenzie on 2015-07-09, 08:12:56
Here's a map of where the population in Europe is shrinking and growing.

http://interaktiv.morgenpost.de/europakarte/#4/50.82/22.50/de
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-07-09, 09:26:56
Pangea world map, a little out of date.

Perhaps, but in general, it's a fair representation of the whole thing. I prefer this one, however.
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailyencouragement.net%2Fimages%2Fmisc%2Fupside_down_globe.gif&hash=9aae4ddeb8a35ed05f47191da94a6fa7" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.dailyencouragement.net/images/misc/upside_down_globe.gif)
And this one.
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailygalaxy.com%2F.a%2F6a00d8341bf7f753ef0133f5689a25970b-320wi&hash=e6484d9df1f22883c5ef0a5ef79c1c7e" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.dailygalaxy.com/.a/6a00d8341bf7f753ef0133f5689a25970b-320wi)
There's good news hidden in maps if you just look hard enough.
Quote
The recent decline in births across Portugal -- to 89,841 babies in 2012, a 14 percent drop since 2008 -- has been so acute that the national government is moving to close a slew of maternity wards nationwide. In an increasingly childless country, 239 schools are shutting down this year and sales of products such as baby diapers and children's shampoos are plummeting.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: ersi on 2015-07-09, 09:42:31

Here's a map of where the population in Europe is shrinking and growing.

http://interaktiv.morgenpost.de/europakarte/#4/50.82/22.50/de

In the course of only the first decade of this century.

It looks like Estonia has not been doing as bad as Latvia and Lithuania during that time. However, the statistics covering 1990-2010 show that each Baltic state lost half a million people (forgive some convenient rounding), which means Estonia was hit proportionally hardest, as it had the smallest population to begin with.

BTW, what's up with Ireland?
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-07-09, 11:26:31
BTW, what's up with Ireland?

Or down? There's no up in the universe because there's no center of the universe, which leads to the observation that the big bang happened everywhere, perhaps somewhere near Ireland.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-07-09, 23:13:05
The only relevant map it's birth rate per country.
The only growing are Ottomans and Vikings, then France and England thanks to the Muslim population invading it.
Iceland is doing good, be aware of the Icelandic invasion soon.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-07-11, 19:10:54
Careful, Belfrager, the Vikings may be coming again!

Quote
In 844 the Vikings attacked Spain and Portugal. (At that time the Iberian Peninsula was controlled by Muslims). They sacked Lisbon, Cadiz and Medina Sidonia then captured Seville. However the Muslims counterattacked and defeated them. The survivors fled.

The Vikings carried out further raids on Spain and Portugal but the Muslims fought back effectively.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2015-10-13, 14:35:35
Small potatoes: Percentage of farmland growing potatoes

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CRHp0gMWEAAjklb.jpg:large) (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CRHp0gMWEAAjklb.jpg:large)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Frenzie on 2015-10-13, 16:40:44
Huh, I'd have expected North America to have more. But I suppose if it's spread out enough the total volume could still exceed Europe.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-10-18, 20:40:08

Careful, Belfrager, the Vikings may be coming again!

Quote
In 844 the Vikings attacked Spain and Portugal. (At that time the Iberian Peninsula was controlled by Muslims). They sacked Lisbon, Cadiz and Medina Sidonia then captured Seville. However the Muslims counterattacked and defeated them. The survivors fled.

The Vikings carried out further raids on Spain and Portugal but the Muslims fought back effectively.


Where are you? Is this tt92's goodbye a contagious disease?
By the way, don't post imbecilities like that, if you want to post about Iberian Peninsula ask me first.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-09-17, 12:48:11
A clickbait title, but I think this still seems like the kind of thing @jax might like.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/08/this-map-tells-you-everything-you-need-to-know-about-innovation-in-europe/
(https://assets.weforum.org/editor/z76ZtZVhmvohF_PnhbP13LLFdOGzUjj4JvZEwDp4k54.PNG)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Barulheira on 2016-09-17, 14:06:42
And Switzerland is a hole in Europe. :left:
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-09-17, 14:23:52
There's also some stuff missing east of the Adriatic. :P
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-09-25, 12:01:33
Quote
Innovation is measured using a set of criteria including the number of new products invented, the percentage of high-tech jobs, and the number of graduates available to tech industry employers.
By other words, innovation is a fraud.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-09-25, 15:46:12
I always suspected you lived in the Alabama of Europe.  :lol:
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-09-25, 20:13:46
 
I always suspected you lived in the Alabama of Europe.  :lol:
Anything against Alabama?  :mad:

 :sing:  "Alabama Song (Whisky Bar) by The Doors"

Well, show me the way
To the next whisky bar
Oh, don't ask why
Oh, don't ask why

For if we don't find
The next whisky bar
I tell you we must die
I tell you we must die
I tell you, I tell you
I tell you we must die

Oh, moon of Alabama
We now must say goodbye
We've lost our good old mama
And must have whisky, oh, you know why

....
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-09-25, 21:12:23
I like that response. Just never was a Doors fan. Really not a 60's-70's rock fan at all. Odd too, I can listen to almost anything. (Definitely not The Beetles tho, :yuck: )
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-09-26, 13:43:18
Lol, don't show any fans that spelling. ;)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Luxor on 2016-09-26, 17:44:56
Lol, don't show any fans that spelling.  ;)
Maybe he did mean The Beetles.  They are kind of hard to stomach right enough. :P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmVd9F1fW00
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: ensbb3 on 2016-09-26, 18:54:07
 :blush: Maybe I just don't like them enough to spell correctly.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-09-27, 22:21:29
Ensbb3 is a country music lover, he could never understand any of the major rock music trends.
Maybe some bluegrass or something of the sort. He likes Dolly Parton and the such.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: ersi on 2016-10-04, 21:01:02
Map of the Viking world with place names in Old Norse

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.abroadintheyard.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2FViking-World-Norse-f.jpg&hash=de24f805f824d38e9e8c4bad6ad8d75d" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.abroadintheyard.com/wp-content/uploads/Viking-World-Norse-f.jpg)

Just to irritate Bel.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-10-04, 22:33:13
That's a false Viking map, never ever Vikings had any comprehension of the world surrounding  them and much less about  concepts as geography and modern world map projection.
Basically idiots forgotten by History. That's the place they will remain.
Forever.

Not only to irritate ersi.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2016-10-05, 08:04:31
 :devil:  Though some names seems to be an invention for the map, like "Skraelingsland".

Helluland, Markland, and Vinland are authentic, as is the name skræling for the locals, but I've never heard of Skrælingsland and it doesn't fit in with the naming scheme, and if they had decided to do so I believe it would have been Skrælingaland (the land of the Skræling people), not Skrælingsland (Skræling's land, where Skræling presumably would be some owner or ruler of that land). Likewise Persialand and Indialand seem highly dubious, there may be more.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-10-05, 14:15:14
I think this map represents much better the idea Vikings had about the world.
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FHKmzGa6.jpg&hash=117e8a4939de32238c41d3c179497068" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/HKmzGa6.jpg)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-10-05, 16:01:37
Though some names seems to be an invention for the map, like "Skraelingsland".
Btw, is rike (rijk/Reich) a word that's not used in names in Norse or is that just a thing with the silly map? Frankland as opposed to FrankrijkFrankarike (or whatever :P) really stands out to me. I notice there are at least two rikis,[1] Ungariki and Gardariki. By analogy I'd expect Frankariki.
I assume riki is Old Norse?
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2016-10-05, 17:15:43
You're right, I didn't notice that one (and Frakkland at that, not Frankland). Yes, Norse is riki, the modern Scandinavian would be Frankrike, just like Frankreich and Frankrijk. Then again there are plenty lands, like England, the land of the Engs... Ungarariki is plausible (modern Ungarn/Ungern), though I haven't heard of it before. It would have formed during the Viking age, while France of course became a realm much earlier. "Langobardland" (Lombardy) would also have been pre-Viking. As they were a Germanic tribe presumably from Scandinavia they might at some point called their land Langobardland, but not at the Viking age. Similarly Svealand is a landscape in Sveariki (modern Sverige or Sweden).

Serkland and Sarkland should be right, and possibly Tyrkland. Bláland too for North Africa, blá(r) meaning black or blue. "Africa" used to be Libya, the term might be known at later Viking age. 
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-10-05, 18:51:09
You're right, I didn't notice that one (and Frakkland at that, not Frankland).
I noticed, but my fingers went with the normal spelling and I didn't notice while doing a quick scan.  :doh:

Serkland and Sarkland should be right, and possibly Tyrkland.
Turkland sounds like a plausible enough Dutch and English name as well. Turkey is right next to GriekenlandGrikkland, after all. Actually why isn't it Greekland in English? :P

Incidentally, a Donald Duck magazine invention for speaking of an undisclosed faraway country is Verwegistan (Farawaystan). This long precedes the trouble of the last decade and a half.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2016-10-05, 21:15:52
Grikkland is the modern Icelandic name for modern Greece. (Checked, yes indeed the modern Icelandic name for France is Frakkland. I don't know why, after all the Franks are called Frankar.)

However, I wouldn't think Grikkland was the name used during the Viking age, rather the Roman or Byzantine Empire. Vikings served as imperial mercenaries (Varangian guard (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varangian_Guard)) and were likely to use their endonym at the time, not the Latin name for the Greeks. 

That's the condition for Tyrkland, there would be Turks in Anatolia at the time, but there would not yet be any Turkey. The fall of Miklagarð(r)/Konstantinoúpoli happened well after the Vikings. (I see now that Wikipedia claims that the Swedes called the Byzantine Empire "Greece", so, assuming this is correct, they may have used the name Grikkland after all.)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2016-10-05, 21:25:30
Speaking of maps (https://www.1843magazine.com/culture/the-daily/an-army-of-mapmakers),

(https://www.1843magazine.com/sites/default/files/Rose%20%28Frederick%20W.%29%2C%20John%20Bull%20and%20his%20Friends%2C%201900.jpg)

Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-10-10, 22:46:47
Always the economist, the source of sissies. Economist sissies.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-10-11, 20:00:09
Economist siccies? Coming from Portugal which had to do the begging bowl to Europe!
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-10-15, 12:56:49
We had to do nothing, we consider we have the natural right to live from your money and work for as long as we decide to do it. Now that you are running away many others will keep on paying.

You people are really totally blind if you believe that money still exists.
Money doesn't exist, for long that the total amount of the financial volume in circulation in the world exceeds for more than one hundred times the total amount of real money.

Only fools works for nothing. To live it's an art, not a job, not an effort.
Jax should do a map about it for your orientation.  :lol:
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2016-11-19, 09:15:48
These YouTube imperial maps are starting to get pretty good.

Newer overview:
https://youtu.be/-6Wu0Q7x5D0

Older, smaller scale:
https://youtu.be/ymI5Uv5cGU4
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2016-11-27, 17:55:14
Watch how fast the world became obese (http://metrocosm.com/map-world-obesity/)

Quote
Over the last 40 years, obesity rates around the world have ballooned. The average adult today is 3x as likely to be obese compared to the average adult in 1975.

This map shows how it happened, country-by-country.


(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fmetrocosm.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F07%2Fworld-obesity-map.gif&hash=b4c46e1a99516f1536ab47b2c860db2e" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://metrocosm.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/world-obesity-map.gif)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-11-29, 22:58:58
Easily solved, put fat people paying ten times more taxes. They spend more, they occupy more space, they pollute more.
It's a matter of tax equality.

Besides, fat people never have class. Another tax on them.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-30, 08:14:04
Someone needs to update "A Modest Proposal"...
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-11-30, 14:15:02
I'm sure it's been done. :P
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2016-12-03, 20:55:47
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cyxgk9WWgAABwgX.jpg:large)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-12-03, 22:46:27
That's not state borders, that's a lot of states together borders.
More than half of all American States have each one a GDP smaller than Portugal.

As usual a false map.
As usual a false America.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-12-04, 01:46:32
Just for the fun of it, try to re-interpret those labels as cultures or political ideologies... :) For instance, California equals France in both pretentiousness and "egalitarian" nonsense -- but, so far, without the blood-letting!
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-12-04, 11:02:56
Or at least, without too much bloodletting among themselves? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Genocide
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-12-04, 11:36:27
Quote
The indigenous population of California under Spanish rule dropped from 300,000 prior to 1769, to 250,000 in 1834. After Mexico won its independence from Spain, and after the secularization of the coastal missions by the Mexican government in 1834, the indigenous population suffered a much more drastic decrease in population.* The period immediately following the U.S. conquest of California has been characterized by numerous sources as a genocide. Under US sovereignty, after 1848, the Indian population plunged from perhaps 150,000 to 30,000 in 1870 and reached its nadir of 16,000 in 1900.
Lies, damned lies, and statistics! :)
Are those "numerous sources" the same as the main-stream media?
Quote
the numbers of killings of California Indians between 1846 and 1873 and estimated that during this period at least 9,400 to 16,000 California Indians were killed by non-Indians
So: 300,000 to 30,000 and eventually 16,000 by 1900... But 300,000 minus 19,000 still equals 284,000... What's wrong here? (Just Wacky Wiki... I'm used to it.) How did the 300,000 get to 150,000 -- without genocide? And how is it still mentioned without claims of genocide?
Might these U.S. numbers be census numbers, where respondents self-identify? Maybe not so many people wanted to be "Indian"...having been given American citizenship? :)
But I'm pretty sure you'll see that as cultural genocide!
--------------------------------------------
* Note, please, that numbers are "withheld" from this sentence... One wonders why? The Spanish and Mexicans couldn't count? :) No. They don't count, when it comes to perfidy... European privilege seems to be everywhere lately. But mostly in the U.S. Aren't you ashamed of being "white" yet? Trust me: The time will come when almost everybody will... Obama will hide his face!
(Oops! Did I refer to another thread? :) )
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-12-04, 15:44:08
My weakness is that I find these red herrings too interesting, so here goes. I believe the genocide label might obscure the decentralized nature of the affair, although the outcome is comparable. Genocide describes a process as much as an outcome. One of the Mexican states (I forget which one) had a bounty on scalps. That's genocide. California condoned massacres that were committed by smaller groups but didn't stimulate them as such. That's genocidal in nature but I don't think genocide is the right word.

Cultural genocide would be more along the lines of how the Spanish performed their Christianizing.

The number thing would require more research into what Cook wrote. Incidentally, there's even a Wikipedia article on that (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_of_Native_California). It quotes Cook.

Quote from: Cook, Sherburne F. (1976). The Population of the California Indians, 1769-1970. University of California Press, Berkeley, p. 200.
The first (factor) was the food supply... The second factor was disease. ...

A third factor, which strongly intensified the effect of the other two, was the social and physical disruption visited upon the Indian. He was driven from his home by the thousands, starved, beaten, raped, and murdered with impunity. He was not only given no assistance in the struggle against foreign diseases, but was prevented from adopting even the most elementary measures to secure his food, clothing, and shelter. The utter devastation caused by the white man was literally incredible, and not until the population figures are examined does the extent of the havoc become evident.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-12-07, 03:39:13
The utter devastation caused by the white man was literally incredible
(BTW: Frenzie said no such thing... He quoted someone else. We need either a better quote-function or -Horrors!- to be more careful when we attribute words to others... It's too easy to click a button.)
I've always enjoyed such hyperbole!  Specially when the recounter doesn't know the meaning of the word "literally"... I mean, like, literally, man! :)
(By the same token, the meaning of the word "incredible" is abused by the same author. But that's only one of my bugaboos: Words that shouldn't be given over to Mrs. Malaprop... )

I like the term "havoc" as used and abused: Preconceptions discombobulated! How dare they?! :) But, of course, I'm sure it sounded better in any language other than English -- to those who aren't actually literate in English! (Which, unfortunately, includes a great many Americans... :) )
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-12-07, 19:58:43
(BTW: Frenzie said no such thing... He quoted someone else. We need either a better quote-function or -Horrors!- to be more careful when we attribute words to others... It's too easy to click a button.)
Indeed, it's a weakness of the current system. Maybe I'll fix it up one of these days. :P

Back on topic, this site offers interesting weather maps.

https://www.ventusky.com/
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-12-08, 00:21:10
The utter devastation caused by the white man was literally incredible
I don't know who said it but one thing is sure, just wait for the black man devastation, the yellow man devastation....
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-12-08, 10:36:06
I don't know about black man devastation, but I think we've had plenty of yellow man devastation. :P
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-12-09, 07:12:57
Map cuteness
http://changelog.complete.org/archives/9741-giant-concrete-arrows-old-maps-and-fascinated-kids
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-12-09, 16:52:19
Back on topic, this site offers interesting weather maps.

https://www.ventusky.com/ (https://www.ventusky.com/)
That is interesting and I was able to get weather info for the most important city in the history of mankind  (https://www.ventusky.com/36.166;-115.149).
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-12-10, 22:56:06
That is interesting and I was able to get weather info for the most important city in the history of mankind  (https://www.ventusky.com/36.166;-115.149).
Now I can rest....
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Frenzie on 2017-01-30, 19:20:15
@jimbro37 might appreciate this map of Dutch settlements in Michigan circa 1880.

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=144.0;attach=288;image) (https://thedndsanctuary.eu/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=144.0;attach=288;image)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2017-01-31, 23:52:28
Dutch settlements in Michigan circa 1880
Gunfight at Noordeloos Corral?  :lol:
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Frenzie on 2017-02-01, 09:41:35
Northless seems like an odd name for a town regardless. Its namesake is a little village in South Holland.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noordeloos
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/90/LocatieGiessenlanden.png)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2017-02-12, 00:39:07
Dutch settlements in Michigan circa 1880
Too much Dutch in America, it explains many things...
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2017-04-14, 17:46:01
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C6GAqQ3U0AAZnIH.jpg)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2017-04-14, 22:14:55
Another imbecile graphic.
No representation for Europe according latitude... is seems that Europe has no representation in the world...
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2017-04-15, 07:55:26
You are green-green colour blind?
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2017-04-15, 10:40:24
By the contrary, I see very well how Europe's presence in the world it's diminished by using criteria with no importance at all.
Why not make a graphic showing the distibution of continents according kangaroo's presence?
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2017-04-15, 12:28:10
The European subcontinent has hardly ever been known for an excess of land.

By population the European peninsula is a little more prominent.

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.datagraver.com%2Fthumbs%2F1300x1300r%2F2016-09%2Fworld-pop-lat-long.png&hash=0630247545a01824cb07278f20b70a3f" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.datagraver.com/thumbs/1300x1300r/2016-09/world-pop-lat-long.png)

Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2017-04-18, 05:36:16
How about economic and military influence?
Europe is important, primarily for its failures... The U.S. has been trying to catch up. :( What is the use of having allies, if we can't or won't trust them?

I don't believe any supra-national organization will solve the world's problems. (The UN has proved to be exceedingly inept.) So, it comes back again to the "great powers"...

Have you got a current map for that, jax?
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2017-05-14, 10:19:58
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fw5I8xXP.jpg&hash=2be7d022f2f683cbce3b2c0f772acd05" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/w5I8xXP.jpg)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2017-05-14, 11:54:13
Interesting India to have so dense population numbers along the Himalayas, against the typical litoral/interior scenario.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2017-05-14, 13:15:36
 :queen: The population map is pretty much a rainfall (and river) map. Water used to be pretty important.

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.diercke.net%2Fomeda%2F501%2F100790_095_4.jpg&hash=c2c3ce1d1b8ca695c71f0ac361c8e8c8" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://media.diercke.net/omeda/501/100790_095_4.jpg)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2017-06-13, 10:23:02
Roman road (http://sashat.me/2017/06/03/roman-roads/) map

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fsashat.me%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F06%2FRome_III-01-1.png&hash=3f119d82cc0d527c32cbf6be6b7ddb95" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://sashat.me/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Rome_III-01-1.png) (http://sashat.me/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Rome_III-01-1.png)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2017-06-13, 10:52:58
Reality was less pretty but much more useful. :)

(https://image.ibb.co/fjUtv5/Hispania_roads_pt_Eh3112.jpg)

These are just the main important roads. In the Portuguese area more than 300 different roads exhisted.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2017-06-21, 15:47:44
This Map Reveals the Top 2017 Brands for each Country (https://howmuch.net/articles/most-valuable-brands-2017)

(https://cdn.howmuch.net/content/images/1600/final-brands-by-country-e36c.png)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: krake on 2017-06-21, 20:35:16
I can't see any Portuguese brand. They missed CR7 (Cristiano Ronaldo).  :worried:
As for Germany, as far as I know, BMW doesn't even rank among the top 5.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Frenzie on 2017-06-22, 11:12:01
Quote
This map, based on data provided by Brand Finance.
Alas, the source link doesn't work.
Code: [Select]
http://brandfinance.com/images/upload/global_500_2017_website.pdf

As for Germany, as far as I know, BMW doesn't even rank among the top 5.
When you go straight to the Brand Finance source you can see they maintain different categories.

http://brandfinance.com/press-releases/nivea-is-the-strongest-german-brand/

Quote
Nivea is Germany's most powerful brand with a Brand Strength Index (BSI) score of 88.

[...]

Valued at €33 billion, BMW has maintained its position as the most valuable German brand for the third year in a row.
I'm not really sure what that means though, and the definitions don't help me much either. I've always thought of companies like BMW and Volkswagen as dwarfs compared to, say, Siemens, no matter how big they are.

http://brandfinance.com/images/upload/brand_finance_germany_50_2017_english_locked.pdf

Siemens does feature on the graph, but lower than the car brands and Deutsche Telekom.

They're pretty vague about it all. Basically they're trying to bait you into contacting them to pay for more information. Meh.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: krake on 2017-06-22, 21:18:49
It looks like the criterions for calculating the BSI are complicated and partially empiric.
Wonder how helpful it might be for investors.
IMHO they could have shortened the abreviation for that index to BS™. :D
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2017-06-22, 23:24:32
I can't see any Portuguese brand.
That's because we turned Civilization™ free for everybody. Six hundred years ago.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: rjhowie on 2017-06-23, 00:43:24
But the Reformation was 500!  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2017-06-23, 23:13:13
Yes, idiots took one hundred years to understand it.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2017-07-01, 09:33:56
How do you pronounce "GIF"? (http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2017/06/daily-chart-21?fsrc=scn/tw/te/bl/ed/)

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.static-economist.com%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fimagecache%2F1872-width%2F20170701_WOC964_1.png&hash=e391ac71d69f64e13f4e0c8e89b39383" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://cdn.static-economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/1872-width/20170701_WOC964_1.png)

(https://cdn.static-economist.com/sites/default/files/images/2017/06/blogs/graphic-detail/20170701_woc190_0.png)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2017-07-01, 10:21:25
GIF not JIF.
It doesn't depends where one lives, a graphic interchange format file is not a giraffe interchange format file anywhere in the world. Is there any language to pronounce "jraphic"? think not.

What I find amusing is that I would say that the g of gift to be softer, not harder, than the g of giraffe. It seems that English to think the contrary.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: ersi on 2017-07-01, 12:34:30
Geeks say the darndest things. Here the oldest generation of computer nerds employs following pronunciations

- Bug [pu:k]
- Cancel [kænkl]
- Cookie [ko:k(i)]
- Exit [ik'sait]
- Delete [di'lait]

And so on. GIF is [kif] and FAQ is [fak].
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Frenzie on 2017-07-02, 21:38:30
Geeks say the darndest things. Here the oldest generation of computer nerds employs following pronunciations
About a decade ago someone was rather adamant that McAfee wasn't pronounced /ˈmækəfiː/ but /ˈməkæfi/. Worse, they kept "correcting" me.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2017-07-03, 04:52:44
I can attest to the Asian spelling habit. It is a global phenomena that if I say "program" people may not know what I talk about, I must hold my nose and say APP. And in China that's not pronounced "æpp" either, but aye-pee-pee.

PNG never captured the public imagination, and jay-pegg and giff may fade out of it, but I believe most of those that come across it pronounce it P'n'G, not "ping" as the creators and the universe wanted.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Frenzie on 2017-07-03, 10:11:59
I believe most of those that come across it pronounce it P'n'G, not "ping" as the creators and the universe wanted.
I've certainly always said and heard it as Pee En Gee.[1] Why on earth wouldn't you write ping if you think it should be pronounced ping?

Incidentally, a few years ago I decided to finally look up the pronunciation of ASUS. Luckily (?) they'd provided a video on their company website of a representative explaining that it's pronounced ay-SOOS, "like in pey-gay-SOOS" (Pegasus). I guess/hope they were going for Latin /ˈ'peɡasus/ (PEY-gah-soos) and messed it up because it certainly isn't anything like how any English speaker would pronounce Pegasus. Perhaps appropriately, I think most native English speakers pronounce ASUS like the actual final syllables of Pegasus, /əsəs/ (or sometimes /eɪsəs).

Since then ASUS has actually changed their official pronunciation position, but I forget to what.
That pronunciation spelling works in both English and Dutch, although of course Dutch e would be ay in English and the g isn't the same sound at all.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2017-07-03, 16:39:46
ASUS seems intent on idiosyncratic branding (pronunciation, gratuitous ACRONYM name, slogan).

PNG: The specification specifies pronunciation (https://www.w3.org/TR/PNG-Introduction.html). Alternative pronunciations would be a spec violation. 

Quote
Pronunciation

PNG is pronounced "ping".
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2017-07-03, 23:12:08
And dog must be pronounced cat.
Ping-pong.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: ersi on 2017-07-04, 16:26:57
Incidentally, a few years ago I decided to finally look up the pronunciation of ASUS. Luckily (?) they'd provided a video on their company website of a representative explaining that it's pronounced ay-SOOS, "like in pey-gay-SOOS" (Pegasus).
So they like to be pronounced something like "Hey, Zeus"? That's Jesus in Spanish, by the way, as taught in Die Hard III.

This has become the world of prescribed mispronunciations.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2017-07-05, 23:14:28
"Hey, Zeus"? That's Jesus in Spanish
What???  :faint:

For Americans that must be something more as Djiiizeus...
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: rjhowie on 2017-07-06, 23:45:05
Thought would give you a bit of passing news that wil please you Belfrager.

A well known MP here Jacob Rees-Mogg's wife has just given birth to their 6th child and amongst his list of names is one used by at least three Popes!  One of those four names is Sixtus :D (honestly)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: krake on 2017-07-07, 11:24:06
Watch out for her 7th child. It will be named Septimius if a boy or Septimia if a girl. The 8th one will be named Octavius if a boy or Octavia if a girl and so on...
Keep us on track! :)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2017-07-07, 23:15:54
Thought would give you a bit of passing news that wil please you Belfrager.
Indeed, good to know that someone has six children at your place. That must be a miracle at the land of the savages.
Around here we don't kill babies, so no surprise.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: rjhowie on 2017-07-08, 03:48:40
May I remind you dear man from the slow country that I pointed out he named a child the same as your Pope lot? So we have your lot amongst the nutjobs then??
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2017-07-08, 12:57:46
And what about? In Brazil they name their children like for example Um Dois Três de Oliveira Quatro.

More maps please.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: rjhowie on 2017-07-09, 01:21:03
I had thought that even in the Iberian corner the hint of amusement and relating to your Pope man would have been of pleasant interest to you that a white coat man MP would have pleased!  :faint:
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2017-07-26, 22:49:34
Battle tanks per 100K inhabitants (https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/6of3xz/number_of_main_battle_tanks_per_100k_people_in/?st=J5J9XFRF&sh=c53d96f4)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DFsg2tcVoAAIrRm.jpg:orig)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2017-07-29, 16:21:21
Battle tanks per 100K inhabitants (https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/6of3xz/number_of_main_battle_tanks_per_100k_people_in/?st=J5J9XFRF&sh=c53d96f4)

Quote from: By the map'ś author:
Other interesting contenders from around the world:
USA: 1.8
China: 0.47
India: 0.33
Pakistan: 1.49
North Korea: 19.78
Syria: 24.54
Israel: 31.48
Jordan: 16.77
Saudi Arabia: 3.49

One man is enough to stop a tank. Besides, tanks are cavalry and cavalry always arrives too late.

Images from the last battle in history between the Cossack horse cavalry and the German tanks are impressive. Maybe a couple horses escaped, the brave Cossacks never had a chance.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2017-08-02, 10:14:54
The battle tank, much like the aircraft carrier and the fighter jet is often seen as past warfare technology. (In particular the attack helicopter is supposed to supersede the tank). There's probably a lot of killing left in the tank though.

Something different, The 10 busiest airline routes in the world by seat capacity. [Surprisingly, they're all in Asia-pacific] (https://en.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/6q9pm5/the_10_busiest_airline_routes_in_the_world_by/)

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FjeZWbdq.png&hash=92dc5d8b42a1c68886d69e6ab21a432e" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/jeZWbdq.png)

That "surprising" it isn't, given the below map, but is shows that airline transport is getting more evenly shared across the world.

(https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/files/2013/05/population-map-1024x626.jpg&w=1024)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Frenzie on 2017-08-02, 10:50:27
Saudi Arabia: 3.49
They bought all the Dutch ones.

In particular the attack helicopter is supposed to supersede the tank
Meh, maybe attack helicopter drones.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2017-08-10, 22:41:19
I need a map to the treasure.....
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2017-09-19, 14:02:22
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJ9spuBXoAA-L96.jpg)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: rjhowie on 2017-09-19, 17:45:54
Ignoring Africa?? How odd.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2017-09-28, 08:34:48
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DKzDltkWsAIzrKp?format=jpg) (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DKzDltkWsAIzrKp?format=jpg)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2017-10-07, 00:01:28
Another lie.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2017-11-09, 01:09:53
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DOJuOSjVAAALeob.png:large)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2017-11-09, 11:02:10
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DOLemjoW0AECqcZ.jpg:large) (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DOLemjoW0AECqcZ.jpg:large)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Frenzie on 2017-11-09, 11:26:31
Does that say Morocco?
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2017-11-09, 11:38:56
Morocco is as European as they go. Practically Portugal. The US GDP (nominal) is 18.6 terabuck, while the EU is 17.1 terabuck. A little padding is necessary.

https://youtu.be/BkL9l7qovsE
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Frenzie on 2017-11-09, 12:17:49
I don't dispute that most of North Africa is probably closer to something in between "Europe" and "the Middle East" than what is popularly understood by "Africa", although all of Africa is united in being formerly subjugated by European colonial powers. But when it says European countries, putting Morocco smack dead in the middle kind of jumps out at me. :P
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: krake on 2017-11-09, 21:16:59
all of Africa is united in being formerly subjugated by European colonial powers.
In the past as in present times. However, the methods got a more 'human face'...
And not only European powers which gradually are loosing their power there.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2017-11-09, 23:18:03
although all of Africa is united in being formerly subjugated by European colonial powers.
The only thing Africa is united is in robbing the populations for feeding the corrupt criminal governments supported by all the northerner european barbarians.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2017-12-11, 06:52:48
Oil producing countries sized by production
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQvnmAwVoAU8xr4.jpg:large)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2017-12-13, 17:28:31
The world divided into areas of 100 million people
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ziaruldeiasi.ro%2Fapp%2Fgethumb.details.php%3Fid%3D70669%26amp%3Bw%3D880%26amp%3Bh%3D660&hash=ecae0a89a2ab833a4108e990b212c1f7" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.ziaruldeiasi.ro/app/gethumb.details.php?id=70669&w=880&h=660) (http://p.im9.eu/mapporn-the-world-divided-into-regions-with-a-population-of-100-000-000-people-4500x2200-oc.jpg)

The world divided in areas of 1 trillion dollar GDP
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.boredpanda.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F02%2Ffun-maps-2-13.jpg&hash=2e41615432da722abc8e6099999e2c3d" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.boredpanda.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/fun-maps-2-13.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/NRefv2R.png)

Old map URLs broken, so repost with fresher URLs. 100 megapeople
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fkw550tv.png&hash=73bfcd9fc2499769df7984e4c7ebfdd6" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/kw550tv.png) (http://i.imgur.com/kw550tv.png)

1 terabuck
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FNRefv2R.png&hash=97188bc1b262fbcd0cbd308334ca44c9" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/NRefv2R.png) (http://i.imgur.com/NRefv2R.png)


Or even simpler, each region one billion people. Currently the Americas, Europe, and Africa have one billion each, while Asia has four. Later Asia and Africa are expected to get one more billion each.

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FBMTK5.png&hash=72ee024e30ee2dad9be99b9e2919a03e" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/BMTK5.png)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2017-12-16, 16:00:53
I don't understand this map. there's more people and there's less people, as obviously.
The less will tend to get richer, the more to be poorless. Nothing new under the sun.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2018-01-02, 07:35:22
How life expectancy in U.S. counties compares to other countries (https://www.axios.com/how-life-expectancy-in-u-s-counties-compare-to-countries-2466699121.html)

Quote
In 2014, the United States ranked 41st in the world in life expectancy, with an average American expected to live to age 78. But, like most averages, that doesn't paint the whole picture. Life expectancy is more like Norway's in some parts of the country and more like Kazakhstan's in others.

That's why it's more useful to look at it county by county. Here's how life expectancy in U.S. counties compare to averages around the world.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DSf0HqJX4AINpIY.jpg:large)

(https://i.imgur.com/w5KoCDR.png)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Frenzie on 2018-01-02, 09:15:29
Life expectancy is more like Norway's in some parts of the country and more like Kazakhstan's in others.

That's why it's more useful to look at it county by county. Here's how life expectancy in U.S. counties compare to averages around the world.
That made me curious how it would be per municipality in other countries. StatBel (http://statbel.fgov.be/nl/statistieken/cijfers/bevolking/sterfte_leven/tafels/) doesn't seem to offer nice maps, but De Standaard (http://www.standaard.be/cnt/dmf20150731_01798842) made one with the info. The difference between Flanders and Wallonia is quite striking when presented like that. If I were the earlier article, I'd say Flanders is like the Netherlands/Norway, and Wallonia is like, um, Estonia? :P

For the Netherlands we have this (https://www.volksgezondheidenzorg.info/onderwerp/levensverwachting/regionaal-internationaal/bij-geboorte#node-levensverwachting-bij-geboorte-ggd-regio) (region) and this (https://www.volksgezondheidenzorg.info/onderwerp/levensverwachting/regionaal-internationaal/bij-geboorte#node-levensverwachting-bij-geboorte-gemeente) (municipality).

(All maps are interactive; I suppose I could screenshot them for picture embedding.)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2018-01-02, 10:40:14
Even city boroughs can have large differences. From Still large differences of life expectancy within Oslo (https://www.ssb.no/befolkning/artikler-og-publikasjoner/fortsatt-store-forskjeller-i-levealder-i-oslo) (Norwegian) we can see graphs like this (changes for men in Oslo boroughs 2000-2011). Incidentally Sagene was the borough I used to live in, maybe good that I moved out... On the other hand a 4 year increase of life expectancy in 8 years is not bad.



(https://www.ssb.no/befolkning/artikler-og-publikasjoner/_image/141687.png)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2018-01-23, 06:00:25
Another Pangea map (http://www.openculture.com/2014/07/map-showing-where-todays-countries-would-be-located-on-pangea.html)

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn8.openculture.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F07%2FPangaea.jpg&hash=cac17a245e4f30fa45c3d62fd7efa05a" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://cdn8.openculture.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Pangaea.jpg)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2018-01-29, 06:40:10
Largest immigrant groups in North America south of the Wall.


(https://scontent-dft4-3.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26814848_1434414333353519_1264795474125566130_n.jpg?oh=7da13f7c9cbc0177655edf698001ef45&oe=5ADBDF08)

Europe north of the moat 

(https://d36tnp772eyphs.cloudfront.net/blogs/1/2017/06/Europelargestsecondnationality.jpg)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: ersi on 2018-01-31, 07:46:57
Amerasians, don't miss the sky event https://www.space.com/39458-super-blue-blood-moon-eclipse-best-viewing.html Well, looks like it's mostly for Asians.

(https://img.purch.com/w/640/aHR0cDovL3d3dy5zcGFjZS5jb20vaW1hZ2VzL2kvMDAwLzA3My81MDUvaTAyL2dsb2JhbF9sdW5hcl9lY2xpcHNlXzAxMTgyMDE4LmpwZz8xNTE2NjYyMjI3)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2018-02-03, 14:20:53
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DVHbxFHXUAMrRaQ.jpg:large)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2018-02-07, 23:55:05
This is fantastic, faith circumspected to border lines. Geography over spirituality.
It's protestant "faith", so it doesn't surprises me.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: ersi on 2018-02-08, 08:20:07
It's protestant "faith", so it doesn't surprises me.
Actually Catholicism has been on the rise in USA for a while and it's currently the biggest denomination. More maps of religious USA https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2015/02/26/the-religious-states-of-america-in-22-maps/
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Frenzie on 2018-02-08, 09:42:29
Actually Catholicism has been on the rise in USA for a while and it's currently the biggest denomination.
Without background knowledge putting it that way would seem to suggest it was different a century ago.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: ersi on 2018-02-08, 10:12:01
Actually Catholicism has been on the rise in USA for a while and it's currently the biggest denomination.
Without background knowledge putting it that way would seem to suggest it was different a century ago.
Perhaps my "for a while" means a century. And it was different two centuries ago :)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2018-02-09, 23:19:25
Catholicism is and always have been the biggest single religious denomination in the USA. They sum up all the different protestants in a desperate way to deny the facts.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2018-04-06, 17:19:25
Pig farms in EUrope.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DaFIgpoUwAA4qWj.jpg)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2018-04-17, 11:58:19
Top trading partner for European countries.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DavgC01WAAAfV0B.jpg)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Frenzie on 2018-04-17, 12:45:38
I was confused for a second about the Netherlands being Lithuania's top trading partner until I realized I was confusing Latvia's bottom for Lithuania's top. (Not the clearest graphic imo.)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2018-04-23, 00:09:34
(Not the clearest graphic imo.)
The guilt is not in the graphic, the guilt is on Germany domination all over Europe after what they did.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Barulheira on 2018-04-23, 16:48:52
True. A flag like Japan's would make the map much clearer.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: rjhowie on 2018-04-25, 02:19:59
Well Belfrager probably the Germans were miffed trying to take Europe by war and now succeeding with their third effort.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: ersi on 2018-05-02, 17:44:41
On YT some maps lately are as good as good atlases

Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Frenzie on 2018-05-03, 08:24:23
A video seems somewhat suboptimal for the use case, albeit no worse and probably better than GIFs. I think something like an SVG with some minimal JavaScript to control the steps, perhaps...
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2018-05-04, 00:15:34
Interesting video but I wonder who are the sources for such amount of data.
I agree with Frenzie, with so much information collected it's not intelligent to approach it by a video. The user should have the possibility to explore all that data by user defined criteria. Such a gigantic effort reduced to a watch the celebrity video like.

Many wrong information about the Iberian peninsula.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: ersi on 2018-05-04, 05:13:56
A video seems somewhat suboptimal for the use case...
Which use case? When you are studying things by yourself, then of course a book or a file with linked sources and references is best, but what if the use case is to display some parts of history to a hallful of first-timers?
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2018-05-04, 06:50:49
Of the base alternatives, text, image, video, the is clearly the best way to present a time sequence. A video is after all a time sequence of images. That said, all these formats are non-interactive, apart from pause/fast-forward/rewind. You do want to drill down, you do want to compare and highlight. This is done for some animations, but this is today done primarily by JavaScript, which is less embeddable or linkable.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Frenzie on 2018-05-04, 08:23:26
Which use case?
I find it awkward to navigate. As a child I had some educational programs on Windows 3 that offered much the same principle with a significantly better interface.

Besides things like easily going to a specific step there's things highlighting and clicking involved for more information.

See http://www.thenmap.net/ as something that comes a bit closer and is easy to use yourself, https://developers.google.com/chart/interactive/docs/gallery/geochart for something that depends on Google but comes closer to approximating the superior early to mid '90s experience.

http://vis.uell.net/gsvg/electionAtlasGermany.html

The examples I linked are missing the time aspect. Here's something that's closest to what I mean but it's using Flash. The » "fast forward" looking button means autoplay like a video: http://map-of-rome.yellow-dot.eu/pages/12,demo

You can see why you shouldn't depend on something Google here (https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/lifestyle/special/civil-war-interactive/civil-war-battles-and-casualties-interactive-map/), which says that "Note: Google no longer supports the technology that powers this map. Some features may not work.". I suspect it might be good but I couldn't get it to work. Of course a video won't have such issues since it's just a video, so that's a clear advantage.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: ersi on 2018-05-04, 08:24:28
Text, image, video, etc. do not have to be mutually exclusive alternatives. They can be shown/viewed one after the other in time, but also sometimes side by side, even though the latter must be done sparingly and only for points particularly suitable for such presentation.

...there's things highlighting and clicking involved for more information.
Yes, good point. I use cropping and zooming for highlighting and I wish it were easier to do with video. It can pretty much always be achieved by resizing the video player far outside the borders of the screen, but it's a silly method.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2018-05-05, 13:58:46
Text, image, video, etc. do not have to be mutually exclusive alternatives.
Exactly.

For example, this atlas seems to me a good example of complementary and interactive data type availability on a particular subject.
It could even use short videos, podcasts, animations, weblinks for further info, etc.

https://storymaps.esri.com/stories/2015/atlas-for-a-changing-planet/
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Frenzie on 2018-05-06, 13:51:35
Exactly.
No one said they should be.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2018-05-06, 20:57:27
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DchrzXvXcAALQP5.jpg:large)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2018-05-10, 00:08:38
It would be more interesting to see the USA States fitted into the world... they would disappear.
By all and any criteria.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: ensbb3 on 2018-05-10, 03:14:38
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fs.newsweek.com%2Fsites%2Fwww.newsweek.com%2Ffiles%2Fstyles%2Flg%2Fpublic%2F2016%2F06%2F07%2F0611stategdp.jpg&hash=79411c84b279a49aded6f6034727e4f5" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://s.newsweek.com/sites/www.newsweek.com/files/styles/lg/public/2016/06/07/0611stategdp.jpg)

Here you are. Not that interesting though. 😞

http://www.newsweek.com/economic-output-if-states-were-countries-california-would-be-france-467614 (http://www.newsweek.com/economic-output-if-states-were-countries-california-would-be-france-467614)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Frenzie on 2018-05-10, 08:19:59
Here you are. Not that interesting though. 😞
I do think it's interesting, but it requires quite a bit of background knowledge and parsing to make it so.

I notice the Netherlands was positioned in Illinois, both places to which I have a personal connection. The Netherlands has a population of ~17 million people, while Illinois clocks in at ~13 million. So I guess Chicagoland is slightly richer than the Randstad. I find that surprising actually. Not that I think the place is poor -- not by any means -- but the Netherlands strikes me as much more prosperous overall. Of course they say it's the "closest match," so I imagine the Netherlands has a higher GDP, but still.

Putting Uruguay on Alaska, by contrast, means little to me, on both accounts. It might be your stereotypical American media portrayal of Latin American poverty; it might be as rich as Dubai. (I kid, I know that Uruguay is supposed to be a prosperous, developed country. But I have no real idea what it actually looks like.)

(Edited to correct a typo.)
Title: Uruguay
Post by: Barulheira on 2018-05-10, 11:40:15
Doesn't Alaska have oil?

Uruguay doesn't have oil. But it is prosperous and remarkably stable (in spite of its neighbors), but it's too small to account its relevancy in the big picture.

I would be glad to be living there.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: ersi on 2018-05-10, 13:12:44
Uruguay doesn't have oil. But it is prosperous and remarkably stable (in spite of its neighbors), but it's too small to account its relevancy in the big picture.

I would be glad to be living there.
Don't you live next to it? According to mainstream economics, some of Uruguay's prosperity should be trickling down to you.
Title: Uruguay rules!
Post by: Barulheira on 2018-05-10, 15:08:09
"Next to it"? According to South American standards, yes. According to European standards... it's quite far away. :)

We need more than prosperity tricklings down here. :awww:

Edit: we are getting more tricklings down from Venezuela right now. :cry:
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: ensbb3 on 2018-05-10, 15:53:39
I do think it's interesting, but it requires quite a bit of background knowledge and parsing to make it so.
I'll admit I find it more interesting today, with more time to look.

Lots of much bigger countries have to do with the same money underdeveloped States have. Chile has Alabama's economy for example. At almost 5 times the population and way more area. Tennessee is compared to South Africa. Initially I was like, yeah I get it; They make arguably bad movies, we make arguably bad music, fair enough. (lol) But on closer look I see the huge difference. South Africa having 4x the land mass and almost 8x the population.

I was a little surprised Brazil does as well as Texas. Some make sense. If you didn't know California and New York did well. Now you do. Washington Seattle is a little surprising compared with Belgium, for me. Lots of manufacturing/fabricating corporations have plants up there, though.

Doesn't Alaska have oil?
That is all. And without any of the usual infrastructure/industries associated. They just pump it out of there.

*edited my derpy grammar.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2018-05-11, 00:23:29
What the hell is that place they call it Portugal?? Well, congratulations to them, the rest seems to be an agglomerate of third world countries, something that doesn't surprises no one.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: ensbb3 on 2018-05-11, 02:38:29
Oklahoma
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: ersi on 2018-05-11, 09:54:24
Lots of much bigger countries have to do with the same money underdeveloped States have. Chile has Alabama's economy for example.

...

Tennessee is compared to South Africa. Initially I was like, yeah I get it; They make arguably bad movies, we make arguably bad music, fair enough. (lol) But on closer look I see the huge difference. South Africa having 4x the land mass and almost 8x the population.

...

I was a little surprised Brazil does as well as Texas.
The GDP number by itself does not say anything. It only says how large the economy is, it does not say what it is or how it is doing. The structure of main economy sectors, exports vs imports, population size and territory, fiscal health, etc., all this remains completely hidden when you are comparing mere GDP numbers.

Contra mainstream economic theory, price is not information. A price label by itself conveys no information whatsoever. When you, in addition to the price label, know the product that bears the price label, some information may dawn, but this map does not attempt this. For example about 12 Big Mac meals could be equated with a barrel of crude oil based on price, but the fact remains that oil won't feed you at all, while Big Mac meals arguably do.

GDP per capita would be much more informative. Up to a limit again.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: jax on 2018-05-11, 10:12:02
BBC published a new map (http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-43975088)

(https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/736/cpsprodpb/573E/production/_101143322_esc_valence_map640-nc.png)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Frenzie on 2018-05-11, 10:23:52
Quote
Valence is based on songs' key, harmony and beats - and ignores the lyrics altogether.

"It's all from the waveform," said Eliot Van Buskirk, data storyteller at Spotify.

"The song Happy by Pharrell Williams has an incredible high valence rating, as one would expect, even though the valence attribute has no idea that the song is literally called Happy."

There's a clear Eurovision gloom belt cutting across central and eastern Europe, but things perk up significantly if you look further east and to Scandinavia.

What's the valence rating for this one? How does one find out? :P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAh9NRGNhUU
Title: Eurovision
Post by: ersi on 2018-05-11, 16:21:53
Estonia has a good operatic performer this year (Russian singer). And the song is in Italian. No gay or romantic dancing. No other fooling around. It cannot place anywhere high, but good enough it got to the finals.
Title: Happy valence
Post by: Barulheira on 2018-05-11, 16:49:18
Hmmm... Perhaps "valence" evaluates how close a waveform matches Pharrell Williams' "Happy".

That's easy. :)
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Frenzie on 2018-05-11, 18:17:28
It cannot place anywhere high, but good enough it got to the finals.
I like it. Not like your usual eastern-style pop. ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76KOUIfDry8
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Frenzie on 2018-05-13, 08:05:29
@ersi I didn't listen to all of them but among those I listened to France's and Estonia's entries were the best:

https://youtu.be/vjLuTtUv0Ns

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImawXdXIGd8
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2018-05-13, 12:10:17
It should be called the Euro-Gay-Vision.  :eyes:
Proud that Portugal to be in the last place.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: ersi on 2018-05-13, 16:04:35
What if Australia won? The singers of all Europe (and their most passionate fans) would have to travel halfway across the globe, the show must begin at 21:00 CET, but it's something like 5 a.m. in Australia...
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2018-05-13, 23:47:20
What if Australia won? The singers of all Europe (and their most passionate fans) would have to travel halfway across the globe, the show must begin at 21:00 CET, but it's something like 5 a.m. in Australia...
Nope, the condition for Australia participating at the EuroGayVision is that if they win the next context it will be in Europe, paid by the Australians.
Where? In the UK obviously. Good thing the Brexit.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: rjhowie on 2018-05-17, 23:19:17
Rubbish
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: Belfrager on 2018-05-19, 00:08:39
Rubbish
The UK? absolutely.
Title: Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Post by: rjhowie on 2018-05-21, 20:14:56
Wooh, what a nerve considering we are helping to subsidise your country's begging bowl! :devil: