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General => DnD Central => Topic started by: Belfrager on 2015-08-22, 15:18:27

Title: Living in a Farm...
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-08-22, 15:18:27
Suggested readings:
So You Want To Be a Farmer... (http://modernfarmer.com/2014/09/want-farmer/)
Can You Make a Living on a Small Farm? (http://www.theselfsufficienthomeacre.com/2013/08/can-you-make-a-living-on-a-small-farm.html)
6 Things No One Tells You About Living on a Farm
(http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-things-no-one-tells-you-about-living-farm/)

So, since my nomadic plans are still waiting I decided maybe I'll try the contrary, to be a slave of the Land. :)
There's a growing number of people that are tired of city life, city jobs (or lack of it...), city repression and all that anti-natural way of living.
We aren't ants for living like ants.

Most of my Country's interior is almost abandoned. A paradise for "alternative" ways of life.
But there's a problem, a small problem. I know nothing about agricultural things.
The good part is that only a few elder people still lives there, that's good. Elder people from the country side knows how to do things. They can teach me. :)

In return, (that's what I like, a way of life based at direct exchange between people) I can help them doing those things they can't do it anymore. Or teaching them a bit about computers so they can use Skype for example and speak with their families abroad.

From my readings and talking with some people I don't believe one can "make a living" from a small farm. But one can diminish very much the dependency on money by way of an almost self independence regarding food. It also goes for energy with the modern technologies.

And then, there's everything one can get.... more time for the real important things, living and eating at the natural pace of seasons, independence, do your own wine... :)

What do you think about it? already doing it? thinking about doing it? previous experiences? what advantages do you see? difficulties?
Why not, mother land awaits for you... :)
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-08-22, 16:11:04
And then, there's everything one can get.... more time for the real important things, living and eating at the natural pace of seasons, independence, do your own wine...

...and starve quietly out of the sight of city folk.
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: ensbb3 on 2015-08-22, 16:16:54
Too bad he lives across an ocean. I could of sent him a starter kit.
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: ersi on 2015-08-22, 16:42:31

So, since my nomadic plans are still waiting I decided maybe I'll try the contrary, to be a slave of the Land. :)

Nomadic plans would have entailed chasing a herd of cattle?


The good part is that only a few elder people still lives there, that's good. Elder people from the country side knows how to do things. They can teach me. :)

If the culture is similar to what it is here, nobody will teach you. You'll have to learn by watching and helping. Preferably since childhood, so you learn properly.

You can learn it from books if you are talented and very well predisposed for it. Very few people are.

(A British drama series on TV right now showing a man cutting grass with a scythe. Horrible. Scythe is one of my expert tools.)
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-08-22, 17:51:41
Nomadic plans would have entailed chasing a herd of cattle?

Do you know that we still maintain the "road of transhumance" tradition once a year at some locations? :)
Well, it's very much these days just a tradition and folkloric thing. In Spain it has more meaning and until a few years ago, the herds were still crossing Madrid twice a year for the big desperation of automobile drivers. :)

Reminiscences from when men were free.
If the culture is similar to what it is here, nobody will teach you. You'll have to learn by watching and helping. Preferably since childhood, so you learn properly.

No... I can't say that. Our culture is very much open minded to foreigners, (too much in my opinion) and besides I have a natural gift for speaking with locals. :)
When people trust you, they are very open and willing to help. It's all a matter of knowing how to speak and act with them and remember I'm not exactly a foreigner in my own Country... :)

There's many foreigners, ranging from hippie communities until biologic and/or tourism farms that are generally welcomed by the populations.
I know a guy like that, at a very nice place, an English, but he's too much hippie for my likings.

My plan is to spend some months at one of those farms that receives people. They give you accommodation and food in exchange for you to help in the daily works. No salary. That's a good way of learning many things or, at least, the basics.

Too bad he lives across an ocean. I could of sent him a starter kit.

I know how to produce manure, thanks anyway. :)
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: Sparta on 2015-08-22, 18:02:14
i salute those people that make a living as a farmer,  because of reasons  .

Farming is not an easy task .

and the only easy tasks are  , insulting , belittling  nor  demoralizing   .
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: ersi on 2015-08-22, 18:08:06

and the only easy tasks are  , insulting , belittling  nor  demoralizing   .

How about moralizing? Is it an intermediate task?
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-08-22, 19:39:34
My gift for your new farm...
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.avianaquamiser.com%2F20111221chickenseatingbuckwheat.jpg&hash=d10a2f789f0761459f2b177e7a253635" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.avianaquamiser.com/20111221chickenseatingbuckwheat.jpg)
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-08-22, 21:31:41
Ah chickens... thank you. :)
I've already studied the plans for building a chicken house. Not an easy task as some could think...
Also important it's how to feed them without buying ration. Seems easy in spring and summer but don't know about winter.

Chickens are in my list. Also a couple turkeys for eating at Christmas, it's tradition.
I don't like ducks too much. Gooses are good, they attack, kind of watch dogs.

I suppose I could create some pheasants. They should sell expensive for classy restaurants.
And that's all I'm thinking for things with wings.
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-08-22, 21:58:51
Ah ah!
I found a way of feeding your chickens Jimbro, without buying any ration. :)
Permaculture, Compost.



This is what I really like about living out of cities, we can actually experiment, do, build, whatever goes on our minds.
Next, will be a machine that produces electricity by the difference of temperatures, nothing else. I need it for posting in DnD. :)
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: Sparta on 2015-08-22, 23:39:32


and the only easy tasks are  , insulting , belittling  nor  demoralizing   .

How about moralizing? Is it an intermediate task?


BS = 2BR2

the amount of energy needed to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it
.

you , sir ...

can use that  asimmetry equation of BS ,  to calculate , about why is  Moralize is harder than insulting .
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-08-23, 11:32:43
Electricity by the difference of temperatures = low temperature Stirling machine.
There's a small model working for you to get amazed. :)


I think to be perfectly possible to heat by sun water (or possibly vegetable oil, better temperature retention) and use it as hotting source for day and night.

Electricity enough for machines and illumination 24/24h being off grid. :)

These guys are using it for a large scale usage and with a smart idea, using a green house for plants and heating the liquid. I would need a smaller system.
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-08-23, 15:17:33
You can trap rabbits! I haven't had rabbit meat for decades, but memory says that it's quite good.
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-08-23, 17:37:59
I haven't had rabbit meat for decades, but memory says that it's quite good.

We've many recipes for rabbit. Fabulous. :)
We don't look to rabbits as pets but as food.

Course I need to raise rabbits. And a pig, a pig gives you meat for an entire year.

Chicken (plus eggs), rabbit and pork. A couple sheep also. I need a freezer.
There's propane gas freezers but a bit expensive. Maybe at second hand,  it's fundamental to have ice for the whisky.

Well, this seems like a life of abundance... without bills or tax fiscals. :)

You can trap rabbits!

I can shoot them. Hare are very tasty.
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-08-24, 02:46:44
Too bad he lives across an ocean. I could of sent him a starter kit.
You've seen his reply... I'd simply suggest he take a two week camping trip, with only what he could carry. If he goes to anything like a wilderness the problem would be solved!
He wouldn't come back... He would have died from sheer ignorance long ago, were it not for "productive" citizens. :)
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-08-24, 12:12:18
 (http://[/url)
I'd simply suggest he take a two week camping trip, with only what he could carry. If he goes to anything like a wilderness the problem would be solved!
He wouldn't come back... He would have died from sheer ignorance long ago, were it not for "productive" citizens.  :)

Don't make me laugh.
I'm aware how do you go to the "wilderness"... with a V8 van full of cargo, gps, cellphones, weapons and whatever more.
I've done two weeks adventures only carrying a backpack.

Now, for serious things. The permaculture's 12 principles (http://permacultureprinciples.com/downloads/Pc_Principles_Poster_EN.pdf). Enjoy and think about it.
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-08-24, 14:40:16
The permaculture's 12 principles (http://permacultureprinciples.com/downloads/Pc_Principles_Poster_EN.pdf).

I like 'em!
=======
1. Observe & interact
2. Catch & store energy
3. Obtain a yield
4. Apply self-regulation & accept feedback
5. Use & value renewable resources & services
6. Produce no waste
7. Design from patterns to details
8. Integrate rather than segregate
9. Use small & slow solutions
10. Use & value diversity
11. Use edges & value the marginal
12. Creatively use & respond to change
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: ensbb3 on 2015-08-24, 15:08:16
Now, for serious things.


We just spent four days trying to save this donkey. Antibiotics and pain meds twice a day and kept trying to get him up and moving as much as possible.

I had him in this harness working with him until 2am and he was doing so well, I thought. He was in good spirits even teasing us a bit... He passed a few hours ago. :'( 

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FuJA8zOW.jpg&hash=e7c2c1a116762e3555885b0f8ad1c5ab" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/uJA8zOW.jpg)

Mandi doesn't know I snapped this picture of her and Moe. She hasn't been on here much lately so maybe I can slip it by.

I never liked donkeys. I thought they were goofy dumb animals. I was wrong. Moe was great. So much personality and so loving. I'll miss him.

But no. It isn't all fun.
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-08-24, 22:46:42
I never liked donkeys. I thought they were goofy dumb animals. I was wrong. Moe was great. So much personality and so loving. I'll miss him.

But no. It isn't all fun.

Course not. I expect it to be full of difficulties and hardworking but also gives you joy and, sometimes, sadness. The cycle of Life certainly includes death.

Donkeys are fabulous. They can perfectly substitute a small tractor, they pull heavy loads, can be used for running water extracting devices from wells, feeds almost like goats and produces a lot of manure for planting. You can even ride them.
They have strong, strong personality.

Besides, we get paid just for having them. The Miranda donkey, a native Portuguese race, was facing extinction so the government actually pays you for just owning them. Have a look.
They are extremely robust, good for cold climates and you can let the animal's coat to fully grow, it gives them a really funny looking.

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FMlDN8VU.jpg&hash=6f1268c944a016e343b576ef6e5d8409" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/MlDN8VU.jpg) (http://imgur.com/MlDN8VU)
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: ensbb3 on 2015-08-25, 01:18:48
They can perfectly substitute a small tractor

Well, not exactly. You are right in that they're great pack animals for weight to load ratio. And running a well pump or the likes is pretty much the simplest thing you can teach anything to do. One of the first steps in breaking one is getting them to walk a circle tethered. As far as plowing the fields? Not so much. You'll wear them out too quick, so not "perfectly" anyway. Best to get yourself a mule for those tasks, or a draft horse if you want a perfect animal tractor.

There is pretty good money in running after yankee draft horses and bring them down south to sell to the Mennonites, for anyone wanting to go after it. A lot of traders do it. But can't compare to government incentives I'm sure. (Wonder if they'll pay me to raise them and ship them home? I'm good at producing manure factories, lolz.) Farmers don't pay any sales tax here but I can't recall ever hearing of someone paid to raise livestock like that. 

Grandma always said cow shit was the best manure. I've never picked a favorite poop so you're on your own there. I know making a compost pile is a good way to recycle nutrients and field rotation is essential for keeping nutrients in the ground. And also manure derived from poor nutrition doesn't magically produce more nutrients. But I'm sure the hippies can give ya the rundown tho.
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-08-25, 13:03:15
As far as plowing the fields? Not so much. You'll wear them out too quick, so not "perfectly" anyway. Best to get yourself a mule for those tasks, or a draft horse if you want a perfect animal tractor.

Yes, sure. A mule would be better at that aspect.
There is pretty good money in running after yankee draft horses and bring them down south to sell to the Mennonites, for anyone wanting to go after it. A lot of traders do it. But can't compare to government incentives I'm sure. (Wonder if they'll pay me to raise them and ship them home? I'm good at producing manure factories, lolz.) Farmers don't pay any sales tax here but I can't recall ever hearing of someone paid to raise livestock like that.

I don't know if the government keeps on paying the incentive for the donkeys thanks to the almighty crisis.
That incentive was from a different nature than all other incentives and subsidies to agriculture. It was for biodiversity and species conservation.

Usually here incentives are paid so you stop producing... Agriculture it's supposed to be just for the French the same way industry has to be for Germans, those are the basis of European "Union".
Grandma always said cow shit was the best manure. I've never picked a favorite poop so you're on your own there. I know making a compost pile is a good way to recycle nutrients and field rotation is essential for keeping nutrients in the ground. And also manure derived from poor nutrition doesn't magically produce more nutrients. But I'm sure the hippies can give ya the rundown tho.

Compost is certainly the way to go. I've been reading about it and it's benefits are huge. Besides, it fits perfectly into the main principles that must orient people regarding nature's usage.

Can't say the same for hippies. They irritate me deeply. They're not bad people, just insupportable and dumb. And vegetarians.
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: krake on 2015-08-25, 15:07:57
Donkeys are fabulous.

You should better take care of your donkeys so they won't have a negative impact on Portugal's tourist industry.  :devil:

Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-08-25, 16:21:59
Some women like 'em, some don't.
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: ensbb3 on 2015-08-25, 16:29:42
Usually here incentives are paid so you stop producing... Agriculture it's supposed to be just for the French the same way industry has to be for Germans, those are the basis of European "Union".

Interesting. I need to read up on this. I didn't realize The Union manipulated domestic production that way.

There are subsidies offered for certain crops here. Like when ethanol was in big there was ridiculous amounts of field corn about. Soy has been that way in years past and this year food corn seems big. There are also tax incentives for putting your land into "green belt", meaning for agricultural use. It limits what you can do with it but drastically reduces the taxes on it. Other crops like tobacco are licensed out. People used to grow it as a cash reserve. You'd get tags to grow a few acres and net $15k-$20k at harvest, but the government has consolidated that into to big growers now. You can grow tobacco, you just cant sell it. Livestock, though, has always been based on market price, as far as I know.
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-08-25, 17:08:21
My idea is not to try to get some money playing with subsides and a lot of bureaucratic work. It's a nightmare the amount of bureaucracy in this country.
I see a small farm solely for self independence regarding food and to practice a lifestyle that interests me. For getting some money I believe that acting as a small local trader would be better. I'll see what I can manage on that when the opportunity arrives.

Intermediaries are those that wins the money, not the producers.
Maybe a few "niche" products could be worthwhile.

Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: ensbb3 on 2015-08-25, 21:45:47
It's a nightmare the amount of bureaucracy in this country.

Probably true anywhere.
Intermediaries are those that wins the money, not the producers.

Indeed. I've accidentally made money just off horses people have give me. Winter comes around and they realize how much feeding costs and just give me $300-600 horses, lol. Hard to say no to that even tho I have no desire to be a trader.


Maybe a few "niche" products could be worthwhile.

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.japalangblog.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F04%2Fsquarewatermelons_03.jpg&hash=143e600d262849d4b3f7e7de195f18b4" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.japalangblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/squarewatermelons_03.jpg)
Novelty melons. I hear they go for hundreds of dollars in Japan and aren't even edible. 
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-08-26, 20:25:33
Is that a cage for growing squared melons?
Perfect, I'll grow triangulars using small pyramids.  :)

Those orientals even irritates me more than hippies. Bonsais...  small feet for women... melons in a cage... always the same shit.

Now, I've been studying the calendar of planting. This is very important.
As well as chicken tractors... :) and how to build greenhouses.

If you watch youtube you'll notice that Americans builds all those things with wood. Wood it's expensive in Europe.
PVC tubes are a much better alternative regarding cost, but it's plastic, meaning petrol.
All this is very interesting.
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: ensbb3 on 2015-08-26, 22:11:04
If you watch youtube you'll notice that Americans builds all those things with wood. Wood it's expensive in Europe.
PVC tubes are a much better alternative regarding cost, but it's plastic, meaning petrol.
All this is very interesting.


Bamboo might be an alternative. IIRC it may be a couple years before you pull any meaningful poles from a stand/crop/group of it.


edit:
Is that a cage for growing squared melons?

Oh, and yes. Apparently they wanted a melon easier to ship and sit on shelves.  Turns out it's nasty.
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-08-27, 09:17:51
Bamboo might be an alternative. IIRC it may be a couple years before you pull any meaningful poles from a stand/crop/group of it.

Bamboo would be cool... but really difficult to get.
Reed works well for very small, light and temporary structures kind of small sheds for the plants at the sowing/beginning of growth phase. Or for poles to plants as tomatoes or peppers.
(Reed beds are invasive at many areas here.)
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-08-27, 20:45:13
Now I'm planning a guillotine to cut chicken's heads. Wonderful instrument.
I've heard that chickens keeps on running without heads. Not with my device.

The best part is that it can be upgraded for politicians as well. :)
Never heard that politicians keeps on running without the head... a simplest device would be enough for them...

Rabbits it's more complicated, I suppose that a karate coup in the neck will be efficient. Never heard about cutting a rabbit's head.
An alternative way would be a nail in the top of the head...  possibilities are endless...

There's a certain Edgar Poe's like humor abut killing domestic animals. Strange.
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: krake on 2015-08-27, 21:29:00

Now I'm planning a guillotine to cut chicken's heads. Wonderful instrument.

Poor chickens.  :awww:
How cruel! Shouldn't we have some more respect toward creation?
Why not using something more human like an electric chair?
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-08-27, 21:58:05
Why not using something more human like an electric chair?

It would have the advantage, according some witnesses, that the chicken would come out already roasted....
Well thought krake.
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: Barulheira on 2015-08-28, 11:14:52
Only criminal chickens deserve it.
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: ensbb3 on 2015-08-28, 16:25:46
Lol, seems excessive guys.

They used to either use a hatchet or just wring their necks. Or as mom has described it... You grab it by the neck and fling the body around in a circle like a rock in a sling. The head apparently pops off due to this and the body may or may not run around a bit, but either way you collect your dinner.

I think nowadays, at chicken farms, they just let them bleed out by puncturing an artery.
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-08-28, 18:31:13
It's not about farms, but very close.

Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-08-28, 21:25:10
Lol, seems excessive guys.

Indeed. Killing pigs it's much more difficult.

Meanwhile my efforts to get a small property keeps on going. Next week will be important, hope it goes well.
If everything goes fine, I would like to move at next spring eh eh  :)

A month, maybe two, before spring would be perfect for the in house seed plantations, home repairs, building things and all that.

Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-08-29, 04:31:03
Oh! This is not a pipe dream... Then, please know: I wish you well! And I hope you enjoy yourself.
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-08-29, 11:51:56
Obrigado, I'll certainly will enjoy it.
All this self sufficiency thing it's just the first stage of my plan, the foundation. Other more thrilling things will follow.

Pipe dream... that's a funny expression, it made me remember that I can grow my own tobacco and stop paying the barbarian high taxes on cigarettes.
There you have a good thing from America, Virginia type of tobacco. :)
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: tt92 on 2015-08-30, 20:36:30
About fifty years ago I had serious thoughts about living on a small farm and becoming as self-sufficient as possible and I asked a friend, who had done it, for advice.
She said "If you plan to raise young animals and kill them and eat them, it is best not to give them names."
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: ensbb3 on 2015-08-31, 05:29:14
I just couldn't... Chickens make eggs too, tho.  ;)

Me favorite donkey dying kinda broke my heart. I sold my only quarter horse yesterday and the rest of the donkeys are next. I can't really keep them all and I've never wanted donkeys anyway. We'll call that one my dad's final joke to me. He left me some asses, Ha-ha-ha. Problem is they ain't worth anything, so that joke just keeps on going. :rolleyes:

The other problem is; I ought to let more go but idk how to pick from the others. :insane:
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-09-01, 17:39:55
She said "If you plan to raise young animals and kill them and eat them, it is best not to give them names."

That's easy for me, I treat animals as... animals.
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: ensbb3 on 2015-09-01, 20:27:18
Continued from (https://thedndsanctuary.eu/index.php?topic=109.msg45523#msg45523)

Sagesse it's all about knowing the right time.

A fair point for a farmer.  :P


I think I'd lean towards contribution over self reliance tho.

I had plans to get away to the city early on in life. Somewhere in IT or teaching history.
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-09-01, 20:48:29
"If you plan to raise young animals and kill them and eat them, it is best not to give them names."

Damnation! I named my dog!
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-09-01, 21:04:34
I had plans to get away to the city early on in life. Somewhere in IT or teaching history.

Your words remembers me those ants we see in the ground, half are going into one direction the other half are goint into the opposite direction... until we crush them with our foot just for the pleasure of seeing chaos to happen.

I never had any plans to get away for a country side life...
I wonder who's the irritating boy amusing himself by crushing our lives... :)

Forget it, I'm feeling nihilist today.
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: Barulheira on 2015-09-01, 21:11:18

"If you plan to raise young animals and kill them and eat them, it is best not to give them names."

Damnation! I named my dog!
I wasn't aware you are of the Chinese kind! :eyes:
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2015-09-02, 04:15:21

Suggested readings:
So You Want To Be a Farmer... (http://modernfarmer.com/2014/09/want-farmer/)
Can You Make a Living on a Small Farm? (http://www.theselfsufficienthomeacre.com/2013/08/can-you-make-a-living-on-a-small-farm.html)
6 Things No One Tells You About Living on a Farm
(http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-things-no-one-tells-you-about-living-farm/)

So, since my nomadic plans are still waiting I decided maybe I'll try the contrary, to be a slave of the Land. :)
There's a growing number of people that are tired of city life, city jobs (or lack of it...), city repression and all that anti-natural way of living.
We aren't ants for living like ants.

Most of my Country's interior is almost abandoned. A paradise for "alternative" ways of life.
But there's a problem, a small problem. I know nothing about agricultural things.
The good part is that only a few elder people still lives there, that's good. Elder people from the country side knows how to do things. They can teach me. :)

In return, (that's what I like, a way of life based at direct exchange between people) I can help them doing those things they can't do it anymore. Or teaching them a bit about computers so they can use Skype for example and speak with their families abroad.

From my readings and talking with some people I don't believe one can "make a living" from a small farm. But one can diminish very much the dependency on money by way of an almost self independence regarding food. It also goes for energy with the modern technologies.

And then, there's everything one can get.... more time for the real important things, living and eating at the natural pace of seasons, independence, do your own wine... :)

What do you think about it? already doing it? thinking about doing it? previous experiences? what advantages do you see? difficulties?
Why not, mother land awaits for you... :)

I have grown up around and helped on farms throughout my life.
Amongst other things, the Mississippi Delta has some of the best soil in the Americas for planting.

Haven't done much farm work in recent years, but still remember well how to do most of the rest.
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: Mandi on 2015-09-04, 01:59:14

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FuJA8zOW.jpg&hash=e7c2c1a116762e3555885b0f8ad1c5ab" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/uJA8zOW.jpg)

You're asking for trouble there. Any woman that plays with asses is bad company to keep.  :P
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-09-04, 05:18:56
Mandi, youngsters should be give a wide berth... No?! :)

(Note: She's not fool enough to get into the bucket of water. And she's old enough to know better -judging from her backside, which she showed an ample amount of in that picture- than to make herself an ass, too! She, perhaps, knows more about donkeys than you do.) But -- I'm a city boy: What do I know? :)
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: ensbb3 on 2015-09-04, 09:52:23
:lol:
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: Mandi on 2015-09-04, 11:14:27

Mandi, youngsters should be give a wide berth... No?! :)

(Note: She's not fool enough to get into the bucket of water. And she's old enough to know better -judging from her backside, which she showed an ample amount of in that picture- than to make herself an ass, too! She, perhaps, knows more about donkeys than you do.) But -- I'm a city boy: What do I know? :)

Did you know that the glottis is the smallest opening in the body that air passes through? Had you been actually speaking, you would have forced a lot of unnecessary air through it, sir. :P
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-09-04, 11:22:04
Mandy, for some folks it's air going in one ear and out the other unobstructed.
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-09-04, 22:29:09
Did you know that the glottis is the smallest opening in the body that air passes through?

Really? the things women knows about... amazing.
I have a friend that closes his nose and he's able to make air to pass through the inner junction of his eyes... I suppose that's a smaller opening than the glottis...
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-09-26, 09:27:02
It's surprising how so many people I speak with enjoys the idea of a subsistence farming life but always something prevents them to make such step.

That something it's called materialism and constant brain washing. One can still see a tiny light that appears in their eyes but rapidly extinguishes and so they return to their comatose daily life.

An handful of braves still resists, there's hope. :)
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-10-18, 21:06:20
An handful of braves still resists

And so many gorgeous women....  8)
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-04-15, 22:28:07
Ecovillages and intentional comunities. Way to go.
For the energetic challenge the Stirling machine (producing electricity by the difference of temperatures) seems to me appropriate.
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-04-17, 05:07:16
It's surprising how so many people I speak with enjoys the idea of a subsistence farming life but always something prevents them to make such step.
Might it have something to do with -oh, I don't know- "modern" amenities? (Computers, etc.)
Your ideal would be a -- recommendation of parasitism. (Why am I not surprised? :) )
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-04-17, 11:59:48
Might it have something to do with -oh, I don't know- "modern" amenities? (Computers, etc.)
Your ideal would be a -- recommendation of parasitism. (Why am I not surprised?  :)  )
Why a "recommendation of parasitism."? Since when living directly from what you produce is to be considered parasitism? So many years of consumerism, political brainwash and citizen serfdom are preventing people from thinking anymore?

Maybe you're confusing me with some hippy comunity living from the social security check while in harmony with universal vibrations and nice dope. You coudn't be more wrong.
My project is a strong and deep cultural, political, social, economic and ecological resistance movement.
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-04-18, 12:51:01
My project is a strong and deep cultural, political, social, economic and ecological resistance movement.
Iconic irony! :)
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-04-18, 22:18:27
My project is a strong and deep cultural, political, social, economic and ecological resistance movement.
Iconic irony! :)
You're not part of it anyway. Dogs barks while the caravan passes, an old arabic saying.  :zzz:
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-04-19, 00:15:05
What are you "resisting"? :)
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2016-04-19, 16:05:06
Just for you, Belfrager, a perfect little Portuguese farm!
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi1.trekearth.com%2Fphotos%2F101277%2Fpo-19te4.jpg&hash=57f35679f868d9abf4a55f17b4ecf6f0" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/101277/po-19te4.jpg)
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-04-19, 20:09:00
Just for you, Belfrager, a perfect little Portuguese farm!
Thank you, it's a nice place, Sunny.
Grow a couple of red Bougainvillea up that white wall and it will gain a certain charme.
What are you "resisting"? :)
Your world? :)
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-04-30, 13:49:35
Permaculture, twelve principles around three values.
Any comments?
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fc9zJPF5.jpg&hash=e333ff1e80b40743a29dd781a379de37" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/c9zJPF5.jpg)
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: ersi on 2016-04-30, 18:26:05

What are the principles and what are the values?
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-04-30, 21:03:18
Isn't the image self explanatory to answer your question? or are you using one of those only text browsers you like so much and can't see any image?
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: ersi on 2016-05-01, 08:56:25
Sorry. I was on Elinks and it shows no images. I am often on Elinks precisely to avoid images. I see now, pretty picture :)
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: krake on 2016-05-01, 11:00:04
Living on a farm:
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn1.spiegel.de%2Fimages%2Fimage-988428-galleryV9-ulfp-988428.jpg&hash=2eefdbd415d580abfc87053138e01015" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://cdn1.spiegel.de/images/image-988428-galleryV9-ulfp-988428.jpg)

No subtle irony. I'm just posting it because IMHO the picture has turned out well. :)
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: Barulheira on 2016-05-02, 11:23:14
Any comments?
I can't help myself. The icons are amazing! I appreciate good designers.
(The content, of course, is pretty good, too!)
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-05-02, 19:17:45
They have bigger icons on the website: http://permacultureprinciples.com/principles/

It also seems to come with a video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_-J71k2bXE

Unfortunately, although you could easily extract the vector icons from their poster (http://permacultureprinciples.com/resources/free-downloads/#principles-poster), they (or at least the poster) are licensed No Derivatives.
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-05-03, 03:51:28
...not to mention that the whole idea is parasitical. :)
Without modern technology, less than 10% of the world's population could survive. (Of course, the "friends of the earth" are okay with that!.)
But as long as Belfrager is "happy", eh? :)
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: midnight raccoon on 2016-05-03, 08:09:43
Drinking too much of that stuff is bad for your liver, ya know.
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: krake on 2016-05-03, 08:56:26
...not to mention that the whole idea is parasitical. :)
Parasitical you say? What objections do you have against parasitism? After all it's the principle empires are built on.

The world food crisis: what is behind it and what we can do (http://www.worldhunger.org/articles/09/editorials/holt-gimenez.htm)
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-05-07, 10:47:54
Without modern technology, less than 10% of the world's population could survive.
Wrong, very wrong Oakdale.
When 20% of world's population consumes 80% of total ressources, it turns very clear that what matters is not the number of people but their behavior.
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: ersi on 2016-05-07, 17:19:50
He thinks that the 80% who consume 20% are parasites on the 20% who consume 80%. It's useless to say to such a guy that he's wrong.
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-05-08, 03:59:00
You both use very bizarre definitions of "resources"... Should the Russians, the Iranians and the Saudis be forced to drink their oil? Should the Chinese and Germans be forced to eat their coal? But, of course, what you mean is that the U.S. is more successful than most other countries...
Why am I not surprised? :)

Next, you'll say that there's too much tea and rice in China.
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-05-08, 06:53:50
Should the Russians, the Iranians and the Saudis be forced to drink their oil? Should the Chinese and Germans be forced to eat their coal?
Saudi Arabia depends on food imports, but where'd you get the notion that China, Germany or even Iran do? :P
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: ersi on 2016-05-08, 07:39:33
Should the Russians, the Iranians and the Saudis be forced to drink their oil? Should the Chinese and Germans be forced to eat their coal?
Saudi Arabia depends on food imports, but where'd you get the notion that China, Germany or even Iran do? :P
Or Russians.

The thing is, he thinks that the rest of the world is parasitising on America by the very definition of America (as defined by Oakdale).  This is the only way his statements can make sense, if they are meant to make sense.
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: krake on 2016-05-08, 07:51:37
Should the Russians, the Iranians and the Saudis be forced to drink their oil? Should the Chinese and Germans be forced to eat their coal?
OK, Saudis and Germans are among your closest friends but since when do you worry about Russians, Chinese or Iranians?
I'm deeply touched by your humanitarian care for all people around the world. :)
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-05-08, 08:08:38
I'm concerned for all the peoples of the world. But I'm responsible only for the well-being of those close to me... :)
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-05-08, 11:27:47
But I'm responsible only for the well-being of those close to me...  :)
Very well, that will be the beginning of Oakdale's Farm, a most lovely place I imagine...
You certainly want to provide food sovereignty for those who you are responsible.
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: ersi on 2016-05-08, 11:40:20
Just like with the word "park", "farm" may have weird meanings in English. I have visited an alligator farm in Florida. It was a zoo.

And then there's the song Parchman Farm (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0oLuT47HnU) which appears to be about a prison. Overall, we miserly non-native-English-speakers can have no clue what associations Oakdale is having in mind...
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-05-08, 11:51:31
I have visited an alligator farm in Florida. It was a zoo.
No wonder, everything seems to be a zoo over the Atlantic. That's their concept of society.
Overall, we miserly non-native-English-speakers can have no clue what associations Oakdale is having in mind...
Always the wrong ones... :)
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: krake on 2016-05-08, 12:56:10
Very well, that will be the beginning of Oakdale's Farm, a most lovely place I imagine...
I'm not good at farming but two suggestions for Oakdale's farm came to my mind.
Some genetically modified seeds and a lot of glyphosate from Monsanto would be a good start. So he will reap at least the triple of what an old-fogyish peasant could ever reap. Not to mention that all will have their own part of profit. Monsanto, Oakdale and who knows, maybe even the family doctor. :)
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-05-08, 20:51:24
I prefer Mayall's version (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vKGluBbhro), ersi. Parchman Farm is the Mississippi State Penitentiary (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mississippi_State_Penitentiary).

Thanks for the "suggestions," Krake. But enough of my neighbors are farmers and ranchers... I can specialize! :)
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-05-10, 22:57:16
I'm not good at farming but two suggestions for Oakdale's farm came to my mind.
Some genetically modified seeds and a lot of glyphosate from Monsanto would be a good start.
No need for so much work. Having Oakdale posting is enough for Monsanto.
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: Belfrager on 2017-09-02, 23:15:22
Permaculture = A Revolution disguised as gardening. :devil:

Do read everything about it.
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2017-09-07, 18:17:43
I'm retired. I don't farm. I neither "toil nor  spin"... I merely enjoy -as much and as such I can- my family, and my hobbies. What else should a lily of the field do? :)
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: Belfrager on 2017-09-07, 22:47:47
I merely enjoy -as much and as such I can- my family, and my hobbies. What else should a lily of the field do?  :)
To knock down the oak and finally be free.
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: rjhowie on 2017-09-07, 23:16:00
Many years ago as a wee laddie my parents and I stayed at a distant relation's cattle farm over in Ulster at the edge of a pleasant village. It was only for a fortnight holiday but thankfully it was a very building and slightly posh looking place. Very suitable!
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: Belfrager on 2017-09-08, 23:11:55
The three main ethic principles of permaculture:
Take care of Earth
Take care of People
Fair redistribution.

Anyone against?
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2017-09-18, 09:18:05
Yup! I'm entirely against all three.

1. Use the earth; it's our planet.
2. Cherish and enjoy people; don't treat them as pets...
3. "Fair redistribution" is the term used by the lazy or the brigand.

Stay on your "farm," Belfrager. Maybe they won't bother you...

BTW: What does "free" mean to you? :)
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: ersi on 2017-09-18, 10:22:01
BTW: What does "free" mean to you? :)
For libertarians it means free for unrestricted abuse. Any other definition is unacceptable to them.
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2017-10-11, 10:43:14
You really do miss your priviledge, ersi, don't you? You used to be important. But now that the Soviet Union has collapsed, you have to prove your worth to... There's the rub: You don't know what it is.

But your country seems to be doing quite well; You seem to resent that...
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: ersi on 2017-10-11, 19:16:48
You really do miss your priviledge, ersi, don't you?
What privilege? Did you have something particular in mind or are you just mouthing off as usual?

You used to be important. But now that the Soviet Union has collapsed, you have to prove your worth to... There's the rub: You don't know what it is.
I know very well to whom and what worth I have to prove - to the employer. And it's easy - just pretend to be worth it.

Anyway, I have direct experience with two socioeconomic orders and with the anarchic transition period between them. You? Been at least to Scotland in your life? Any reason why I should take you seriously?
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: rjhowie on 2017-10-12, 01:15:24
Gee whiz! Oakdale has discovered the Soviet Union has collapsed. Slow mover and a couple decades .
Title: Re: Living in a Farm...
Post by: Belfrager on 2017-10-12, 23:30:52
Anyway, I have direct experience with two socioeconomic orders and with the anarchic transition period between them.
Indeed. So do I.
You're right, Americans don't.