The DnD Sanctuary

General => DnD Central => Topic started by: OakdaleFTL on 2017-06-03, 21:11:25

Title: Everything Trump…
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2017-06-03, 21:11:25
Too lazy to create a new thread, after earlier (IIRC) pointing out this thread has expired?
:) Yup!
But of course people need a place to vent their spleen... So, consider this an open-ended receptacle.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: Frenzie on 2017-06-10, 16:19:47
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/03/06/trump-putin-and-the-new-cold-war
Quote
Manipulation of TV coverage is a crucial factor in Putin's extraordinarily high popularity ratings, typically in excess of eighty per cent--ratings that Donald Trump both admires and envies.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: Belfrager on 2017-06-10, 22:14:44
Everything Trump equals to everything America.
We have enough threads about it.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: rjhowie on 2017-06-11, 01:48:30
 :up:
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: jax on 2017-06-27, 09:05:26
A fairly noticeable shift in Pew Global Attitudes (http://www.pewglobal.org/2017/06/26/u-s-image-suffers-as-publics-around-world-question-trumps-leadership/),




Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2017-07-09, 02:38:18
A fairly noticeable shift in Pew Global Attitudes (http://www.pewglobal.org/2017/06/26/u-s-image-suffers-as-publics-around-world-question-trumps-leadership/),

Yes, as if that means anything.  

At least President Trump, unlike the ex-HNIC,  is leading America from the front, & couldn't care less if Europe, or the World for that matter, likes it or not.

Let Europe pick a new leader of the "Free World".... Trump believes that the title is over rated, if there's nothing in it for America.

When it eventually hits the fan (& it will), & everyone looks for a leader -- which they will, President Trump will decide what he thinks is the best deal for America.......what's in America's interests......should he be the bystander & watch how they handle the heat, or get in & reap the spoils.

The Free Lunch is no longer there for the World's ravenous appetite.

It's going to be more like pay as you go form here on out.



It's about America First, .......not Global Likability, that's important.

The World, for what it's worth,  can suck wind out of a dead donkey's ass.........  

If it isn't in America's best interest, piss off...(as with the Paris Agreement, which means nothing to America now)

Way to go Mr. President.....Way to go!

Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: Belfrager on 2017-07-09, 23:11:06
 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: rjhowie on 2017-07-10, 01:41:39
Odd that Obama got what he did. He did more computerised bombing than GW Bush did and neither did he improve the lot of the tens of millions living at the bottom of the ex-colonies, eh? Shame the ex-colonials get saddled with the system they got but there again it was the early corporates who started that stuff.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: Barulheira on 2017-07-10, 12:01:15
"Those who fly solo has [sic?] the strongest wings."
Time to send America to a planet on their own.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: Belfrager on 2017-07-11, 23:16:12
Thanks to Trump and his electors, America got back to North Korea level.

Fantastic indeed.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: rjhowie on 2017-07-12, 18:13:09
Well the country has never really been a proper democracy. It was created by their own late 18th century corporates and the majority of people did not have a vote. Look what it has produced and the world effected by the negativity. Does show that it wasn't only Dr Goebells who was clever at propagandising people.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: Jochie on 2017-07-17, 01:27:33

Let Europe pick a new leader of the "Free World".... Trump believes that the title is over rated, if there's nothing in it for America.

The Free Lunch is no longer there for the World's ravenous appetite.


Actually, the free  lunch is what America has experienced for the last 50 years. We're an opioid nation that hardly manufactures anything. Yet, we have pretty high standard of living as far as consumer goods and housing is concerned.

Why is that? Because America has a low income, at almost slave labor level, world supporting its consumer needs. This didn't happen by magic. Its due to trade deals and the projection of American power and diplomacy that has put us in such a favorable position. We're the ones who created the trade rules that favors us, the world banking system that gives us preferment.

Now Trump is throwing away what generations of Americans have worked hard to get us.

Here's a political editor, known as a conservative, take on Trump and his giving away of American world leadership:
https://twitter.com/InsidersABC/status/883829926993862656/video/1

Here's an article on Trump quitting TPP, happy news for China:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-38060980

Quote
For years, Beijing has listened to the Obama administration say the 12-nation regional trade deal was a way of bolstering American leadership in Asia.

China was not included in the deal, and President Barack Obama went out of his way to remind the region that this was no accident. TPP allows America - and not countries like China - to write the rules of the road in the 21st Century, which is especially important in a region as dynamic as the Asia-Pacific.

Nor was this ever just about the rules on trade. TPP was a core part of the Obama administration's strategic "pivot to Asia". US Defence Secretary Ash Carter said that alongside boosting US exports, it would strengthen Washington's key relationships in the Asia-Pacific, signal US commitment to the region and promote American values.

"Passing TPP is as important to me as another aircraft carrier," he insisted.

No wonder then that Beijing saw the US pivot to Asia, and the TPP within that, as a thinly disguised plan to contain China's growing might. Just this weekend, the official Chinese news agency described TPP as "the economic arm of the Obama administration's geopolitical strategy to make sure that Washington rules supreme in the region".

...
 As Singaporean Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong warned bluntly on a visit to Washington in August, TPP put America's "reputation on the line" with its partners in the region.

"Each one of them has overcome some domestic political objection, some sensitivity, some political cost to come to the table and make this deal," Mr Lee said.

"If at the end, waiting at the altar, the bride doesn't arrive, I think that people are going to be very hurt."

Today US diplomats can't have it both ways in Asia. After telling partners that pushing through TPP was bolstering American leadership in the region, the obvious conclusion must be that reversing TPP is undermining US leadership. And into this perceived leadership vacuum, China itself is ready to move.
...
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: Jochie on 2017-07-17, 15:20:43
Another Trump hypocrisy is his Buy American mantra. This he recently announced his Made in America Week week. Not that he walks the talk. But, then like Trump, talk is cheap.

The products Trump companies sell are almost all imported. The steel in Trump buildings came from China. Just about only the MAGA hats worn by his morons is supposedly made in the USA.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2017/07/16/white-house-unveils-made-in-america-week-though-many-trump-products-are-made-overseas/
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: ensbb3 on 2017-07-18, 22:58:53
We're the ones who created the trade rules that favors us, the world banking system that gives us preferment.
Actually we use the British system of banking.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: rjhowie on 2017-07-19, 02:10:11
Trump said various things in his campaign then seems to do a dance on some of the stuff now.  We all know that there are of course many quite sensible people over there but there are an h of a lot who are not and the fact they run into millions is shocking and only emphasises the unfortunate internal state of the country as well as what it does outside. The system is a farce I am afraid and there are tens of millions who are in difficult circumstances while the corporates increasingly zoom ahead. makes things so damn farcical. Apart from the terrible hypocrisy and the many, many who are being treated like peasants it is a damnable shame the decent are stuck with the system. Trump is an obvious example and there is of course a lot of niggling going on mover there but the system can produce people like Trump which only epitomises the deep flaws.

Have known individual people from there who were beyond reproach and a decent contradiction of what passes for that word 'system.' Tens of millions flocking to that man will make no difference to the vast poor army and the way the nation is run.  The way trump is flip-flopping he could be a mental penguin.  :irked:
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: Belfrager on 2017-09-07, 23:18:06
We were at a time that we though that in the western democratic world never a psychopath could be ever elected again.
Americans demonstrated that we were wrong. They claim for their own production of Hitlers, Stalins, Neros and the such.
Title: Yes, they can!
Post by: Barulheira on 2017-09-08, 11:58:18
Yes, they can!
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: rjhowie on 2017-09-09, 01:01:53
Unfortunately for the Americans who are sensible the place is run by two corporate lots. Because of that many over there were a bit frustrated and although Trump is a businessman  they thought they would go for someone who was not brained by the Hill mentality. It does say one thing that is distinct that only the Yanks could end up with someone like that!  :worried:
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: Belfrager on 2017-09-25, 22:09:36
For long long time (centuries) no one is behaving as Trump does.
At least, he was supposed to do things with style.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: Barulheira on 2017-09-26, 11:46:39
You are forgetting Bozo.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: rjhowie on 2017-09-27, 02:30:14
I have to say this about Trump that he although playing word games with the North Korean idiot has been just playing word games with the dictator. However the Korean head-banger is a disgrace and danger. He thinks he can get away with flying rockets over other countries - such as Japan threaten to shoot down US planes even if not over North Korea is mind blowing. It is bad that NK is doing what it does and just ignoring even increased sanctions and crossing swords with the UN but murdering and starving it's own people is despicable. Kim Jong-un is worse than Trump and does not care a damn about law, international law, respect of other countries and so on. Are places like Japan and South Korea just to put up with this>L War is not something I want to push for but if the evil git steps over the line from what he doing something needs to happen to him and eventually get the people free.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: ersi on 2018-02-09, 06:38:57
Trump budget to include $3 billion for border wall: official (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-budget-wall/trump-budget-to-include-3-billion-for-border-wall-official-idUSKBN1FT09M)

Is Mexico not cooperating?
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: jax on 2018-02-09, 14:05:20
Meanwhile, in Berlin: The rise and fall of the Berlin Wall and why it matters today (https://www.americamagazine.org/politics-society/2018/02/07/rise-and-fall-berlin-wall-and-why-it-matters-today).

Quote
The Berlin Wall stood for 10,316 days. As of Feb. 5, 201[8], it has now been breached for over 10,316 days. From now on, Berlin will live with the memory of the wall for longer than it lived with the wall itself.

For the generations that grew up in a divided Berlin, the fact that the young will not experience such a life must be seen as evidence of the city's achievement. Still, there is something lost as the hard-won lessons and perspectives of living in the shadow of the wall begin to recede.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: ersi on 2018-02-09, 16:38:28
Berlin wall does not have much similarity with the Mexican border. Berlin wall has more similarity to the Jerusalem wall. Or, let's face it, the border in Melilla.



Mexican border is different because it runs mostly in rural areas where nobody lives. And there isn't such a disparity of wealth between the USA and Mexico as it's cracked up to be. Of course, it's useful for Trump to keep cracking things up.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: rjhowie on 2018-02-09, 21:33:57
Now President trump is shoving up military expenditure and what a nonsense that is.

Secondly having been impressed watching the big French military parade with their President he would love the same thing to be done in America? I would say this. I groan as the French were a lot smarter than the American idea of military display and so other places including my own country would put on a proper military show just like France. When it comes to such stuff in the ex-colonies they are amateurs.  Even the way I once watched a US army squad marking time with their legs being raised backwards it is the kind of style wee girl would do here. All they are doing is walking in step no crispness at all Even the way they carry Colours is head shaking! . Don't do it man in the White house because others do it better.   :down:
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: ersi on 2018-04-06, 11:04:26

Still, pretty good achievements, I must admit. Beats Obama.

Obama promised change. There was no significant change compared to W. era. And close Guantanamo - didn't even attempt it.

Trump seems to leave a New Deal-like mark - he is already creating jobs with the wall thing. Very funny if he will be remembered later as one of the greats. Goes to prove that, for Americans, appearances are everything.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: rjhowie on 2018-04-06, 23:38:44
Just a pity the place is not a real democracy as the decent are being conned, frustrated and suffering.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: Belfrager on 2018-04-06, 23:47:12
Goes to prove that, for Americans, appearances are everything.
For Americans, anything is everything. American way of life, so they call it.
They have good things also. I don't get along with the very European "crucify the Americans".

We, the Europeans, we are getting very hypocritical.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: rjhowie on 2018-04-07, 23:05:21
I wouldn't be too bothered about Europeans crucifying Americans it is doing itself perfectly highly when you look at corruption, gun madness, prison numbers, poverty, etc, etc........
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: ersi on 2018-04-08, 09:12:02
Goes to prove that, for Americans, appearances are everything.
For Americans, anything is everything. American way of life, so they call it.
They have good things also. I don't get along with the very European "crucify the Americans".
They are doing it to themselves.


Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: Belfrager on 2018-04-08, 14:49:36
They are doing it to themselves.
Probably. Empires don't get to an end by doing the right and appropriate things...
I hardly believe Trump to represent the Americans, that would be the worst of nightmares.

Don't get upset about their ignorance with the Baltic States, I'm sure Trump thinks Portugal to be a part of Spain. So does RjHowie.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: rjhowie on 2018-04-08, 23:21:20
Haha, nice try Belfrager. My only complaint about Portugal is how it did in it's monarchy me being a Monarchist!
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: Belfrager on 2018-04-19, 23:57:05
Meanwhile Trump goes directly with negotiations with the "Dear Líder" of North Korea. Everything smooth and easy.
Nobel prize is closer...

What a farse.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2018-04-20, 23:56:19

 :lol:








Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: Frenzie on 2018-04-21, 15:31:09
I'm bewildered at the word bewidered.  :angel:
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: rjhowie on 2018-04-21, 20:07:41
Uh-oh Some typical mixed up stuff rom SmileyFaze. A traditional Yankee right winger who also supports neo- Marxists in NI and Eire!  :faint:
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2018-04-21, 22:52:29
If you like President Trump, you'll love this.....

If you hate President Trump, you'll fall to the floor crying, kicking, & screaming because it hits every button within your #NeverTrumpers butt-hurt snowflake being, since you still haven't come to grips with him winning the US Presidency, & becoming the most powerful man on the planet bar none!

Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: rjhowie on 2018-04-22, 01:31:40
You are in fact yourself projecting would-be liberal mind stuff. They automatically guff when you disagree with them that you hate. I do try to allow for sensible yanks but unfortunately you do illustrate the limitation of the grey cell use. Disagree means hate?  Hhhm you have an education problem boy. I made it simple in that hypocrisy is I am afraid floating about between the ears! A rightist corporate man (fair enough) but a Marxist sympathiser? Not surprised your country is as it is.......
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: ersi on 2018-04-22, 10:04:02
If you hate President Trump, you'll fall to the floor crying, kicking, & screaming because it hits every button within your #NeverTrumpers butt-hurt snowflake being, since you still haven't come to grips with him winning the US Presidency, & becoming the most powerful man on the planet bar none!
Such haters include about half of American conservatives. Not everybody likes the idea of having a proud pussy-grabber as legally elected president.

As for liberals or conservatives elsewhere in the world, it makes little difference who the current president in USA is. USA could just as well be without a president, it would hardly matter.

Your post says more about your own assumptions than about anything to do with Trump or his haters.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: ensbb3 on 2018-04-22, 16:02:15
#NeverTrumpers butt-hurt snowflake being
Besides, I've got to believe you can do better than this. This is weak son.  (like your President. ;) )
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: rjhowie on 2018-04-22, 18:00:19
Well the hypocritical nonsense from that right winger American here who also supports Marxist terrorists is a routine example of why America looks daft in the world....... :sing:
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: Belfrager on 2018-04-23, 00:04:28
it makes little difference who the current president in USA is. USA could just as well be without a president, it would hardly matter.
Absolutely.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: rjhowie on 2018-04-25, 02:18:25
I do not think that President Trump has any class, dignity or decorum for someone who is a Head of State. The one before him made me groan sometimes always each time going on a plane jogging up all those steps . Ridiculous. What a place.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: rjhowie on 2018-04-27, 00:16:46
And furthermore that groaning display stuff from Trump and the French President made me squirm. They acted a like a couple of immature clowns and if someone tried all that hugging, kissing and stuff with me  would thump him.  :irked:
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: Frenzie on 2018-04-27, 13:44:55
Are you saying Macron did a bise on Trump?
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: ersi on 2018-04-27, 15:35:51
RJ does neither links or references, only ramble.

But yes, here's the bise.


Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: rjhowie on 2018-04-27, 17:59:06
A handy nonsense from you there ersi! What I dashed well said is not a fantasy as you and the television viewer world knows too well. It looked immature, childish and pathetic. Glad they both kept away from me still as I don't need boxing gloves. What a nonsense from those two clowns. Had shaking immaturity.  :down:
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: ersi on 2018-04-27, 18:37:49
What I dashed well said is not a fantasy as you and the television viewer world knows too well.
Of course, the entire television viewer world agrees with you. The television viewer world is not a fantasy!
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: rjhowie on 2018-04-27, 22:41:10
 :up:  :lol:
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: Belfrager on 2018-04-29, 23:49:30
Trump says " the EU was formed to take advantage of the US".
 :lol:  :zzz:
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: Frenzie on 2018-04-30, 07:41:03
The guy doesn't seem to have a concept of mutual advantage.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: rjhowie on 2018-04-30, 21:06:54
I don't have any problem with someone who is not a traditional politician taking an office but the man can make heads shake. I do not think this modern nonsense of making tweets on the Net is very mature nor progressive. Some of what he comes out with is immature and silly for a man who is meant to be a Head of State.  Obama always running up long plane stairs was another groan and not very good either for a Head. I know America has only a part democracy system but Trump has little dignity and all that stuff with the French President made me groan as does all that European hugging and kissing stuff. Glad when i was in politics non-one did that stuff with me or a sore jaw would follow.  :ko:
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: rjhowie on 2018-05-06, 17:51:48
At one point I tried to be kind of reasonable at who nutjoblanders out in as their leader but the more he goes on the dafter and a groan he is. Thought maybe someone not a routine politician might be a unique and okay change but nope just part and parcel of the daftness taken as normality over the pond. Routine sackings, daft tweets, threats and silly talk. His speech at the Rife lot was so immature and shocking it is no small wonder the country is in the state it is in. Both in Britain and FRrance Trump has been condemned for the immature speech he gave to that lot of brainless eejits.

His stance on Constitution rights, Iran and world issues are head shaking but what does it say about a place that puts in such people??
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: jax on 2018-05-08, 19:07:24
As for liberals or conservatives elsewhere in the world, it makes little difference who the current president in USA is. USA could just as well be without a president, it would hardly matter.

The US president matters to the world. Not only is this grifter now the third most powerful person in the world (https://www.forbes.com/powerful-people/list/#tab:overall) (after Xi and Putin, ahead of Merkel, Bezos, and Pope Francis), the power of the US presidency is primarily US foreign policy. The outside world might ignore the damage he is doing to his own country (it is self-inflicted after all, they voted for him), but there is significant collateral damage world-wide. We will all suffer the consequences. 
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: Frenzie on 2018-05-08, 20:09:15
Indeed. The US diplomatic corps was overall a force for good in the world.  You could almost say that they're currently proactively failing to reach peaceful solutions when and where the option presents itself. How many countries don't have US ambassadors now exactly?
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2018-05-09, 02:38:03
..

Donald Trump announces 'withdrawal'
from Iran Nuclear Deal




Source:    The Telegraph (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/05/08/donald-trump-announces-decision-iran-nuclear-deal-live-updates/)     
Quote
Donald Trump pulled America out of the Iran nuclear deal on Tuesday, reimposing sanctions on the regime and delivering on an election campaign promise. 

The US president said the "defective" 2015 agreement would not stop Iran developing a nuclear bomb and signed a presidential memorandum enacting the US withdrawal.

Iran has been accused of failing to be honest about its nuclear ambitions while supporting terrorist groups and acting in an increasingly hostile way across the Middle East.

Britain, France and Germany condemned the move in a joint statement and promised to stay within the nuclear agreement claiming that it was the only way to prevent a Middle-Eastern nuclear arms race.

However, the White House announcement was welcomed by Israel - which released new intelligence on Iran's nuclear programme last week - and several Arab nations.

Mr Trump said: "It is clear to me that we cannot prevent an Iranian nuclear bomb under the decaying and rotten structure of the current agreement.

"The Iran deal is defective at its core. If we do nothing, we know exactly what will happen.

"In just a short period of time the world's leading state sponsor of terror will be on the cusp of acquiring the world's most dangerous weapon.

"Therefore I am announcing today that the United States will withdraw from the Iran nuclear deal."

The US president added: "Any nation that helps Iran in its quest for nuclear weapons could also be strongly sanctioned by the United States."

Hassan Rouhani, the Iranian president, warned that if negotiations with other partners to the deal failed then the country's uranium programme will restart.

Shortly after the announcement, there were widespread reports of an explosion in Syria, possibly the result of an Israeli strike on Iranian forces.

The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said at least nine pro-government fighters were killed, including members of Iran's Revolutionary Guards.

The decision to reimpose sanctions raises fears that European companies who trade with the Iranian government and do business in America could be hit with sanctions.

Mr Trump has long been a critic of the Iran nuclear deal, which was signed by his predecessor Barack Obama and lifted sanctions in turn for the country's nuclear programme being curbed. Mr Obama criticised the decision as a "mistake".

Mr Trump said he was open to striking a new, wider deal with Iran that would address behaviour such as the country's ballistic missiles programme and involvement in Syria and Yemen.

The US president said he wanted a "real, comprehensive and lasting solution" that would thwart Iran's nuclear ambitions.

He also made clear he was delivering on a 2016 election campaign pledge, saying: "The United States no longer makes empty threats. When I make promises, I keep them."

The re-imposition of sanctions will come into effect between three and six months from now. It includes sanctions on Iranian oil exports, the country's central bank, and Iranian businesses.

European companies with significant presences in the US could be caught up if they do not curtail business in Iran before the sanctions come into effect.

Some of them were exploring ways to continue doing business in Iran after making significant investments following the announcement of the nuclear deal three years ago.

The UK, France and Germany issued a joint statement saying they "regret" the decision and making clear they would remain in the agreement, known as the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action.

The statement said: "Our governments remain committed to ensuring the agreement is upheld, and will work with all the remaining parties to the deal to ensure this remains the case including through ensuring the continuing economic benefits to the Iranian people that are linked to the agreement."

It went on: "We encourage Iran to show restraint in response to the decision by the US; Iran must continue to meet its own obligations under the deal, cooperating fully and in a timely manner with IAEA inspection requirements."

EU leaders are expected to meet within days to discuss how the deal can be rescued. Mr Rouhani, the president of Iran, said Iran would stay in the nuclear deal for now but was prepared to return to enriching uranium if its interests were not preserved.

He denounced Mr Trump's speech as "psychological warfare" against Iran but said his country would not bow to pressure. "Our people have always been victorious in the face of conspiracies and we will also emerge victorious at this juncture."

But he warned: "I have ordered Iran's atomic organisation that whenever it is needed, we will start enriching uranium more than before."

Benjamin Netanyahu, the Israeli prime minister and a leading critic of the Iran deal, said Mr Trump had made a "brave and correct decision" to withdraw from the agreement.

"Israel fully supports President Trump's bold decision today to reject the disastrous nuclear deal," Mr Netanyahu said in a speech moments after Mr Trump's address.

The Israeli leader has consistently warned that the deal would pave the way for Iran to build an arsenal of nuclear weapons and called the agreement a "recipe for disaster".

Shortly before Mr Trump's speech, Israel's military said it had detected "irregular activity of Iranian forces in Syria" and ordered Israelis on the Golan Heights to ready their bomb shelters.

Israeli officials have been saying for several weeks that they expected Iran to retaliate for a suspected Israeli strike against the T4 airbase in Syria, which killed seven Iranians. 


IMHO, the original deal was defective to it's core, & didn't hinder the Iranians from advancing their ambitions one bit.

The President made the right call, & will seek to force a better deal on Iran.

If Europe can't understand that, they can collectively piss up a rope, the US President is not going to backpedal due to Europe's piss-poor protest. 

Europe should remember which side their bread is buttered on, & after they get over their latest "hissy-fit", they should stand up strongly behind the USA, & help force Iran back to the table to sign a more equitable & accountable Nuclear arms agreement, not the porous deal they laughingly penned with the former Vacillator-in-Chief, Barrack Hussein Obama. 
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: ersi on 2018-05-09, 04:06:30
"Most powerful person in the world" or "overall a force for good[1] in the world" happens regardless who the president is. The United States is a country whose policies just happen, this is why I say the president does not matter. Do not overestimate him.

For example, Trump is obviously incompetent. The proof is all over the place, yet the country is not collapsing. If it were up to the president, the US should be in ruins by now. There is something else holding the country up, regardless of the president.

When W and Al Gore were running, I heard some people say that W would be better, because Gore's running mate had a Jewish name, so Gore would probably be too pro-Israel and likely to start a war or something. Now we know what wars W started. And I would not lay those wars only on W. USA starts wars at regular intervals. When there is no war for a while, you can be sure that USA will start one. That's why it had to happen during W's era regardless of the president.

As to Iran, USA has been making it worse all the time. W's wars surrounded Iran. This is the worst pressure possible on a country. Whoever says that Iran should be pressured even more must be meaning war directly against Iran and is therefore out of his mind.
Easily disputable adjective. For example, everything that is bad and evil in the Middle East this century is directly the fault of USA.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: jax on 2018-05-09, 06:24:37
It is awkward when your oldest classmate gets hit by a stone and becomes brain damaged. He was always a little fickle, but now he is unstable and stupid.

The Iran affair was utterly predictable. Sooner or later Trump would run out of advisers to constrain him, here and elsewhere. What I hope European leaders would do is to play the long game, though they would probably go for the quick fix if they can. There could be an "improved" and renamed Gold-Plated Trump-Is-Such-A-Master-Negotiator Iran deal for instance, and there would be much rejoicing in the White House.

Predictable or not, it is lousy timing. The one positive outcome that would normally be a boon, a weakened Iranian regime with internal strife, would not be be one in today's Extended Middle East (a chastened one could though), while all the other, negative, consequences will be amplified.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: Frenzie on 2018-05-09, 06:59:03
"Most powerful person in the world" or "overall a force for good[1] (https://thedndsanctuary.eu/index.php?topic=2720.msg80244;boardseen#fn1_0) in the world" happens regardless who the president is. The United States is a country whose policies just happen, this is why I say the president does not matter. Do not overestimate him.
That's the way things should be in a proper country. While not a guarantee for success, the opposite would be a very strong indicator that we're looking at a deeply dysfunctional country. Indeed, we're talking about a long-term trend going back two or three decades (including under Obama). Yet the sheer scale and speed with which the Trump administration has dismantled American diplomacy is still something special.

Easily disputable adjective. For example, everything that is bad and evil in the Middle East this century is directly the fault of USA.
Diplomacy is fraught with nasty compromises, executed by flawed human beings. But when I say that American diplomacy is overall a force for good it's not necessarily the most relevant counter-example to bring up a US administration that sidelined diplomacy and randomly went to war. Diplomacy is a large but not the only part of foreign policy.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: ersi on 2018-05-09, 07:12:30
Diplomacy is fraught with nasty compromises, executed by flawed human beings. But when I say that American diplomacy is overall a force for good it's not necessarily the most relevant counter-example to bring up a US administration that sidelined diplomacy and randomly went to war. Diplomacy is a large but not the only part of foreign policy.
The problem here is that you seem to see diplomacy as one aspect of foreign policy and war as another. Europeans tend to shun wars a bit now post-WWII, which is nice of us, but inapplicable to USA.

USA's foreign policy does not see any distinction. Diplomacy and war are both equally viable options in their foreign policy, and foreign policy is always directed to promote US international trade objectives. It says so in Kissinger's Diplomacy. No matter who the US president is, Trump or Hillary, s/he goes by that book.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: krake on 2018-05-09, 08:12:50
There could be an "improved" and renamed Gold-Plated Trump-Is-Such-A-Master-Negotiator Iran deal for instance, and there would be much rejoicing in the White House.

I won't hold my breath. Iran is on the war list like there was Iraq, Libya, Syria, Somalia and Sudan.

Trump is only a lousy actor (clown) playing the part he has to. The script for the part (future wars and humanitarian bombings) was written by others years ago... 

March 2007, General Wesley Clark: Wars Were Planned - Seven Countries In Five Years
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: jax on 2018-05-09, 08:15:03
All diplomacy is a continuation of wars by other means. The US administration is wilfully reducing their capacity to wage that political war, which is stupid of them, and harmful to those whose interests mostly align with the interests of the US. For the US self-inflicted harm seems the rule of their game. This extends to economic warfare. 

That's the second time in as many month Trump has attacked European economic interests, and Trump can ill afford a two-front trade war. The harm EU can do to the US economy neatly complements the harm China can do. However, even if the European powers could, it is unlikely they should. The Trumps will be kicked out one day, while the damage from a global trade war will be lasting. A series of small squeezes would be a better course of action.

This isn't unheard of, of course, you want to corral doubters to your side, "you are with us or against us", and Europe is much more with US than against them. It's pretty transparent, but Europe should play the game as well, taking advantage of the US weakness, and consider what is in European long-term interests. 
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: ersi on 2018-05-09, 08:42:48
The harm EU can do to the US economy neatly complements the harm China can do. However, even if the European powers could, it is unlikely they should.
I disagree a bit here. The EU could and also should harm the USA economically, because the USA has fully deserved it and harms the EU all the time. However, it is unlikely that the EU would, because the EU was always more of a disunion than a union when it comes to any sort of foreign (extra-EU) policy.

...Europe should play the game as well, taking advantage of the US weakness, and consider what is in European long-term interests.
I agree here, but again, it's unlikely that the EU would do it. We saw it just recently: Trump threatened global steel tariffs, some EU member countries (Germany, Sweden, and France in particular) ran to negotiate separate deals with the USA, instead of acting as a union from Svalbard to Malta and Azores to Peipus like they should. The EU is ridiculously brittle.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: jax on 2018-05-09, 08:49:09
I won't hold my breath. Iran is on the war list like there was Iraq, Libya, Syria, Somalia and Sudan.

Toppling the Islamic Republic of Iran is a US policy goal, and after all it is a horrible regime.  A democratic Iran is desirable  However toppling horrible regimes hasn't worked out so well, and that was for the relatively simple cases. Invading Iran is not on the cards, that's why the regime can harbour the idea of foregoing nuclear weapons.

Unfortunately the way the US is likely to go about this is by strengthening Saudi Arabia, an even worse regime.  However it is a regime that pays well, and those billions have made any qualms go away. SA is losing political clout, oil isn't quite what it used to be, but money still talks, and Saudi money is likely to do more mischief in the future.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: jax on 2018-05-09, 09:04:18
I disagree a bit here. The EU could and also should harm the USA economically, because the USA has fully deserved it and harms the EU all the time. However, it is unlikely that the EU would, because the EU was always more of a disunion than a union when it comes to any sort of foreign (extra-EU) policy.

That's what I meant by "if they could, should they?" Of course the EU should protect European interests, complicated by that there is a rather modest EU power, and stronger, but often diverging powers of UK, France, and Germany. In this case the interests converge. Spats and US insanity aside, Europe and US have more in common than in opposition, and more in common than with other partners. It is moving though towards a more open relationship, seeing others, sooner than I had hoped.

Furthermore Europe lives off trade and tourism. We wouldn't benefit by cutting the nose to spite the face. The West, and that includes the US, have in large parts China to thank for our economic boom. The hope is that this can continue even if/after China loses steam, with India and the rest of the once-poor world. We don't want to break that.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: Belfrager on 2018-05-09, 23:58:55
So many people hoping EU to decide something. EU will never decide anything, it's role is to survive after other's mistakes.
We don't lead anymore. Let the others kill themselves.Then, Europe's destiny will be fulfilled again.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: ensbb3 on 2018-05-10, 03:55:20
Never a dull moment with this administration anyways. Finally, a reality TV show I can follow. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: jax on 2018-05-10, 05:22:31
So many people hoping EU to decide something. EU will never decide anything, it's role is to survive after other's mistakes.
We don't lead anymore. Let the others kill themselves.Then, Europe's destiny will be fulfilled again.

Not the EU as much as Britain, Germany, France, conveniently called the E3. These are languages with an army, navy and wallet, while the rest of EUs mostly add diversity and a trading block (https://thedndsanctuary.eu/index.php?topic=2971.msg77340#msg77340). With Brexit the E3 becomes slightly more complicated, more like E2+1, and the power play becomes slightly more interesting.

Before Brexit the E3 was not only the real power behind EU, they also had a blocking minority. The-rest-of-EUs has 58% of the population, while 65% is needed for a qualified majority. You could get a majority against one E3 power, in principle even two, but not against all three. Now, with Brexit, Britain is out of the voting game. As they do no longer count the-rest-of-EUs now have 66% of the population. So, come 2019, we could come in the position that the EU could vote for something that all of Germany (19%), France (15%), and Britain (0%) were against. I don't know what that could possibly be, but it would be a milestone. 
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: Belfrager on 2018-05-11, 00:07:07
Before Brexit the E3 was not only the real power behind EU, they also had a blocking minority. The-rest-of-EUs has 58% of the population, while 65% is needed for a qualified majority. You could get a majority against one E3 power, in principle even two, but not against all three. Now, with Brexit, Britain is out of the voting game. As they do no longer count the-rest-of-EUs now have 66% of the population. So, come 2019, we could come in the position that the EU could vote for something that all of Germany (19%), France (15%), and Britain (0%) were against. I don't know what that could possibly be, but it would be a milestone.
Interesting reasoning. If considering the non "E3" are able to get a common position about anything.

I keep believing that "South Union against Northern Union" to be the more desirable way of ruling the EU, considering both realities, not the E3 "we own we decide" position. They don't own it, not at all.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: rjhowie on 2018-05-11, 23:38:13
Well the south is less good economical than the north which is more progressive in many ways.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: Belfrager on 2018-05-13, 23:56:57
the north which is more progressive in many ways.
Like silly cockroaches. Progressive cockroaches.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: rjhowie on 2018-05-14, 20:55:43
But not completely progressive but they do fund the south......
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: ersi on 2018-07-02, 09:42:47
Trump's Ancestral Village Abounds With His Relatives. Few Will Admit It.
Quote from: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/02/world/europe/trump-germany-family-ancestry-kallstadt.html
KALLSTADT, Germany -- Herbert Trump did not want to talk about it. Neither did Ilse Trump. Ursula Trump, who runs the Trump bakery in the next village, eventually relented, palms upturned, and sighed: "You can't choose your relatives, can you?"
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: Frenzie on 2018-07-02, 15:51:19
I think I saw that exact same article in Der Spiegel one or two years ago. :P
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: jax on 2018-07-02, 16:28:17
That village spends a lot of time neither confirming nor denying.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: ersi on 2018-07-02, 17:36:30
I think I saw that exact same article in Der Spiegel one or two years ago. :P
Well, I didn't, but I looked it up now, thanks :)

In Deutsch:  http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/donald-trump-besuch-in-seiner-heimat-kallstadt-a-1072487.html
In English: http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/a-visit-to-the-german-ancestral-home-of-the-trump-family-a-1072975.html
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: jax on 2018-07-03, 11:24:08
For the record I lived in (by actually) Karlstad (https://youtu.be/Shyk_RS-Apo), Switzerland. Obviously they disavow any Trumpian connection, even fake fictional. 
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: Frenzie on 2018-07-03, 18:10:00
You've been around. ;)
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2018-07-13, 05:20:09
Well, well.........the EU seems to have come to an impasse.


    ◆ Will Britain remain in the EU???  (they will not halt trading, probably just flex any muscle she may still have, from the perimeters)

    ◆ The USA has been rumored to be contemplating withdrawing any & all financial support from NATO, & withdrawing a large portion of the American presence out of the continent.

Seems, on both fronts, the EU best start getting it's ducks in order, because if both come to pass, there's a hungry bear on your doorsteps just salivating for a little taste.

The EU, those not pulling their fair share, best start coughing up 2.5%+ of their GDP pronto, or the EU might just be invited for dinner......And what's being served you ask?........................Why, the EU......





➤ ➤ Of Nato's 29 members, just five meet that target this year: the US, Greece, Estonia, the UK and Latvia. However, several, such as Poland and France, are close to the mark.



A word to the wise.......start forking up heaps of Euros, or say goodbye to the NATO you used to know!!!


..
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: ersi on 2018-07-13, 08:00:34
The EU, those not pulling their fair share, best start coughing up 2.5%+ of their GDP pronto...
Yup, time for another Hitler to militarise Germany. Trump insists.

Two years ago, when specifically asked about NATO commitment to Baltic countries who incidentally spend according to the requirements, Trump answered, "We have many NATO members that aren't paying their bills." That's Trump - he never cares who he is talking to and what about. He just talks, a lot and loud.

Like this, "Look, having nuclear--my uncle was a great professor and scientist and engineer, Dr. John Trump at MIT; good genes, very good genes, OK, very smart, the Wharton School of Finance, very good, very smart--you know, if you're a conservative Republican, if I were a liberal, if, like, OK, if I ran as a liberal Democrat, they would say I'm one of the smartest people anywhere in the world--it's true!--but when you're a conservative Republican they try--oh, do they do a number--that's why I always start off: Went to Wharton, was a good student, went there, went there, did this, built a fortune--you know I have to give my like credentials all the time, because we're a little disadvantaged--but you look at the nuclear deal, the thing that really bothers me--it would have been so easy, and it's not as important as these lives are (nuclear is powerful; my uncle explained that to me many, many years ago, the power and that was 35 years ago; he would explain the power of what's going to happen and he was right--who would have thought?), but when you look at what's going on with the four prisoners--now it used to be three, now it's four--but when it was three and even now, I would have said it's all in the messenger; fellas, and it is fellas because, you know, they don't, they haven't figured that the women are smarter right now than the men, so, you know, it's gonna take them about another 150 years--but the Persians are great negotiators, the Iranians are great negotiators, so, and they, they just killed, they just killed us."
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: krake on 2018-07-13, 15:32:29

there's a hungry bear on your doorsteps just salivating for a little taste.

Just for your information:
Europe's problem is not a salivating bear but that of a salivating DJT.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: rjhowie on 2018-07-13, 20:48:05
I am not a Trump fan generally but I think the crowds congregating here in Gt Britain are a groan. Channel 4 quite deliberately used the front of the mob as their background in running their Friday night news which I thought a bit too leaning. Two speakers who were leftist interviewed including a Labour MP but no-one from the other side. A lot of the mouthing was over exaggerating racist and baloney stuff which i did not find helpful or right.

A Channel 4 man back at the studio interviewing a US politician rabbited on about the USA being the most democratic country in the world (oh really?!). We have had country leaders from all over the dashed place including actual dictatorships and all those who came out about Trump are hypocritical.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: Frenzie on 2018-07-14, 19:34:41
➤ ➤ Of Nato's 29 members, just five meet that target this year: the US, Greece, Estonia, the UK and Latvia. However, several, such as Poland and France, are close to the mark.

The EU, those not pulling their fair share, best start coughing up 2.5%+ of their GDP pronto, or the EU might just be invited for dinner......And what's being served you ask?........................Why, the EU......
Funny you should bring up dinner. The US might spend some 3.5% of its GDP on its military, but the Japanese presence, South Korean military exercises, the myriad of US bases in Saudi Arabia, all the drones over Pakistan, Ethiopia, and so on have preciously little to do with NATO business even in its widest definition (which spuriously includes the war in Afghanistan). It's like if I get a regular meal at a restaurant, while my supposed friend orders the caviar, the lobster, and a bottle of Laurent-Perrier. After eating only a few bites of each item, he subsequently admonishes me for not wanting to pay my equal and "fair" share.

We were in Iraq. We were in Afghanistan. We were in Lybia. We are in the Baltic. One might wonder, and not only for the sake of argument, who actually spends more on the defense of NATO countries.[1]

PS For Germany to spend 2% of its GDP on its military is not exactly the most popular proposition among most NATO members. Besides which, I'm not sure if I should even take seriously the possibility that there's someone around who thinks it's a threat to talk about closing down a few US bases in Germany.
If you ask me, the best case scenario is that a certain someone is hoping that we'll buy more US military equipment. Because that would mean there's some kind of meaningful plan being executed.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: rjhowie on 2018-07-15, 00:00:54
Still insist that those demonstrations in Gt Britain were a waste of time. The one held here in my city of Glasgow was in the central George Square in front of the city chambers but not that many there but the tv camera was for the most part right up near them so not to show that!
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: ersi on 2018-07-15, 06:07:13
PS For Germany to spend 2% of its GDP on its military is not exactly the most popular proposition among most NATO members. Besides which, I'm not sure if I should even take seriously the possibility that there's someone around who thinks it's a threat to talk about closing down a few US bases in Germany.
No European country would like Germany to become a military might again. However, if USA pulled out its bases (it won't), Germany alone has all the resources to instantly replace them abundantly, not to mention other European countries.

The only sad part here is that USA would cease to function as an ally. Then again, in my assessment it already ceased when this century started.

PS Trump and Putin will meet in Helsinki tomorrow (arrive today). Will be fun to watch. Finnish brewery creates quirky beer for Trump-Putin summit (https://apnews.com/16012fb5d9064192bbde4fdb35b960e8)


Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: Frenzie on 2018-07-15, 08:09:34
PS Trump and Putin will meet in Helsinki tomorrow (arrive today). Will be fun to watch.
Speaking of Helsinki, did you catch that Puigdemont was apparently arrested in Germany while driving back from Finland to Belgium? Supposedly he abused Spanish public funds.

(One wonders what a wanted man is doing driving all over the continent.)
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: ersi on 2018-07-15, 08:46:23
Speaking of Helsinki, did you catch that Puigdemont was apparently arrested in Germany while driving back from Finland to Belgium?
Yes, I caught that he was caught, but I did not catch the details. Not sure what business he would have had in Helsinki.

Edit: Here's a bit of news about it though
https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-10123289
https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-10129229

It's said to have been a tour of lecturing and of politically oriented meetings where Puigdemont was treated as an ordinary EU citizen. Puigdemont says that he regrets one thing he did: He delayed the declaration of independence.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: rjhowie on 2018-07-15, 23:14:27
Odd thing about Trump is he changes attitudes occasionally. Hope President Putin has a sense of humour.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: ersi on 2018-07-16, 16:17:17
Addressed to them both...


Quote from: https://nypost.com/2018/07/16/finlands-biggest-newspaper-takes-jab-at-trump-putin-before-summit/
Finland is ranked fourth on the Reporters Without Borders' Press Freedom Index. The US is 45th -- while Russia, where the state heavily controls the media and many journalists have been murdered, is 148th.

But prior to the press conference, an American reporter, allegedly from the Nation, was removed upon request from US security service https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-10307718
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: rjhowie on 2018-07-16, 22:43:20
I think that what Trump came out with fter the four hours private meeting was fine and impressive. It won't go down back hom in nutjobland where there are well over a dozen security organisations braining people. More cleverer than the 3rd Reich or the old USSR. They spy on damn everyone and interfere in countries that will not bow the knee to the USA and so on. The things they accuse others of they have practised for ages! As for what passes for a parliament there is no evidence Russia freaked the election. Such a load of insensible nonsense.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: Belfrager on 2018-07-29, 23:47:47
Trump is just the flies that changes, the shit remains the same.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: rjhowie on 2018-07-31, 00:41:17
Got a point there. Will continue to have over 41 million on food stamps, over 2 million in prison, people on death row for over a decade! (how disgusting). Continue to point the finger at other countries but also continue to spy, disrupt or knock out countries they cannot control and so on. They point the finger elsewhere and dance around the fact they are at the same stuff themselves. Wouldn't like to live there as it is so damn two-faced and even decent Yanks are stuck with the farce.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: ersi on 2018-08-07, 10:12:12
West Hollywood passes resolution to remove President Trump's Hollywood Walk of Fame star

Quote from: http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2018/08/07/west-hollywood-passes-resolution-to-remove-president-trumps-hollywood-walk-fame-star.html
West Hollywood City council unanimously passes resolution asking the Hollywood Chamber of Commerce to remove the Donald Trump star on Hollywood Walk of Fame.
Title: Hollywood Walk of Fame
Post by: Barulheira on 2018-08-07, 12:19:38
No Hollywood?
No Walk?
No Fame?
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: ersi on 2018-08-07, 12:26:15
No Hollywood?
No Walk?
No Fame?
No star.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: rjhowie on 2018-08-07, 21:09:17
I am not impressed with the way America is generally run or the millions who don't do well there or the world interference but I do equally know there are many over there who are basically decent but being misused. That the man got so many votes does betray the other side of large numbers of brained. Wish they had a better and wider system over there as Trump is no advantage to anyone outside of the controlling mindsets.  :(
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: jax on 2018-08-10, 19:00:51
Trump Made Socialism Great Again (https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/08/trump-made-socialism-great-again/567245/)
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: rjhowie on 2018-08-16, 23:13:51
Maybe we can add him to blame for Corbyn!  :lol:
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: ersi on 2018-08-29, 10:06:55
Trump accuses Google of rigged search results about him
Quote from: https://apnews.com/75b9486663fe45f5910bc558db24f65a
In his tweets, Trump said -- without offering evidence -- that "Google search results for 'Trump News' shows only the viewing/reporting of Fake New Media. In other words, they have it RIGGED, for me & others, so that almost all stories & news is BAD. Fake CNN is prominent. Republican/Conservative & Fair Media is shut out. Illegal?"

Google rigs search results depending on who is searching. Trump has his own personalised Google search results.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2018-09-11, 00:51:25


John Bolton declares International Criminal Court 'dangerous'
& 'dead to' America



He labels the ICC as a 'freewheeling global organization governing over people without their consent'



Source:      The Independent (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/icc-us-john-bolton-international-criminal-court-national-security-advisor-donald-trump-a8531701.html)     
Quote
National Security Advisor to Donald Trump, John Bolton, has said the International Criminal Court (ICC) is "dead to us" in his latest speech.

He labelled the court as "illegitimate" and "for all intents and purposes, the ICC is already dead to us".

Mr Bolton, who has long held an unfavourable view of the court, who was speaking at a meeting of the Federalist Society, a conservative group based in Washington DC, said the ICC was "ineffective, unaccountable, and indeed outright dangerous".

The court, established in 2002 in The Hague in the Netherlands, has the power to prosecute individuals for war crimes, genocide, and crimes against humanity. The US never ratified the Rome Statute that established the court and George W Bush, in the early days of the still-ongoing war in Afghanistan, never ratified it.

The court is getting ready to investigate detainee abuse in Afghanistan, an investigation Mr Bolton called "utterly unfounded", adding: "We will provide no cooperation to the ICC."

The former US Ambassador to the United Nations under Mr Bush, went on to say the "central aim of [the ICC's] most vigorous supporters was to constrain the US".

Mr Bolton said the court's statute had "glaring, significant flaws" and "constituted an assault on the constitutional rights of the American people and the sovereignty of the US".

He also acknowledged his hecklers as Code Pink, an international charity which works to end US-funded wars, his "friends who follow me" everywhere.

Mr Bolton, following a trend in the Trump administration of criticising multilateralism, branded the ICC as a "freewheeling global organisation governing over individuals without their consent".

He claimed American "soldiers, politicians, and private citizens" are at risk because the court assumes the automatic right to prosecute over everyone, even in countries which did not ratify the Rome Statute establishing the court. 

Israel, Sudan, Russia, and the US under Mr Bush, are four signatories of the statute who renounced their signatures and informed the UN they would no longer be subject to the legal obligations under the statute.

Mr Bolton said the US' "unsigning" of the Rome Statute was meant to protect Americans from the "unacceptable overreach" of the court.

He cited the 2002 American Service-members Protection Act, "which some have dubbed the Hague invasion act" Mr Bolton said and also prosecution within South Africa following the abolishment of apartheid as examples of why the court was "superfluous".

The act authorized the US president to use all means, "including force", to shield US military members from prosecution by the ICC, he noted.

The Trump aide said US courts and the military justice system already hold all Americans to "the highest legal and ethical standards".

Mr Bolton repeatedly hit out at the global body of which 123 countries are part, asking: "Would you consign the fate of American citizens to a committee of other nations [and] entities that aren't even states like the Palestinian authority?"

The US state department had earlier announced the closure of the Palestine Liberation Organisation (PLO) office in Washington, partly out of a concern over the office's attempts to have the ICC investigate US ally Israel.

He supported the aggressive US stance against the ICC by citing internal management issues, like divulging confidential information to human rights ambassadors like actress Angelina Jolie.

Mr Bolton went as far as threatening ICC officials and prosecutors with sanctions and legal action "to the extent permissible under US law" and said those individuals could be barred from entering the country.

The overarching message of the National Security Advisor was that any perceived atrocity against humanity is to be deemed so by the people within those states, not by the international body.

"We don't recognise any authority higher than the US Constitution," Mr Bolton said.






Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: jax on 2018-09-11, 15:59:34
It just goes to show that you can't underestimate the stupidity and ignorance of the Trump voter. You suspect they are dumb and they prove to you to be much dumber.

First of all the ICC is not a UN organisation. Second, the creation of the ICC was by the instigation by the US, and it is an open secret that it serves US interests. Everyone charged by the ICC have been enemies of the US. Nobody cares because these bastards deserve to be in jail anyway. Third, the ICC is no threat to any half-way civilised country with rule of law. Any country that prosecutes war criminals or genocidal maniacs will have no quarrel with the ICC. It is a court of last resort. Fourth, maybe because they didn't think the US to be a half-way civilised country, the Republicans blocked any possibility of an American being charged from the beginning. A moral black eye, and easy propaganda for people who hate America, but again it didn't matter. Fifth, none of Bolton's bluster has any practical impact on the ICC whatsoever, but sixth it does make the US look stupid, and more than that imply it is a country willing to commit crimes against humanity and suspend the rule of law, and it puts up a template for despots and murderers to follow.

So you set up the game, invite people to play. You make the rules, and stack them so that you cannot lose under any circumstance. Then you kick over the game, say you are afraid to lose, and run home.

It doesn't matter in a practical sense, it is what it is, but the gross stupidity of it boggles the mind. The US now has a government intent on doing maximal damage to its own country for, in this case, no benefit whatsoever.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: Belfrager on 2018-09-11, 22:23:34
Third, the ICC is no threat to any half-way civilised country with rule of law.
Is the USA an "half-way civilized country with rule of law"? It seems not anymore.

We are dangerously near catastrophe.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: ersi on 2018-09-12, 07:29:37
Is the USA an "half-way civilized country with rule of law"? It seems not anymore.
Somewhere in mid-80's I read about Reagan's Star Wars plan. It was quite literally called that, the plan to nuclearise the atmosphere as if it belonged to the USA. I got the same sense about the USA back then as many do about North Korea now. Except that North Korea is only able to accidentally nuke themselves, while USA really is warring all over the world indiscriminately and unaccountably. Sad world.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: krake on 2018-09-12, 07:36:38
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
International laws never applied to the US. They were merely considered useful instruments to push through US interests and if this didn't work those laws were simply ignored.

As for its allies, the USA always applied the "carrot and stick" policy. Only problem with that, sooner or later the USA may run out of carrots.
For US allies this means, either to get used to sticks without carrots or to reconsider the scope of the alliance.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: Jochie on 2018-09-18, 16:01:42
According to the book, Fear, Mattis and Tillerson tried to clue Trump in. They took Trump to the Pentagon tank where Mattison explained the 70 years of agreements and alliances after WW 2 that gave us domination. Tillerson added that's how the peace was kept. Pax Americana. Trump blew up, screaming its all bs. A fit similar to what Hitler was known for near the end of WW 2.

Naturally  the real reason is that we had the world in our hands with third world countries being our cheap manufacturing base or industrial countries supplying goods at reasonable prices, But mostly a low cost labor base, dedicated to the  comfort Americans via consumer goods. The real advantage was always tailored to advantage America, to keep our consumer goods living standard high. Similar to what England did mid 19th century.

We still see that with the advantages most Americans have in consumer goods, imported goods. Compare that to domestic products and services many of which are overpriced and not that good. The healthcare industry and Internet services come to mind. We are still good in agriculture, farming, even if they are highly subsidized such as with the Ethanol boondoggle.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: Mr. Tennessee on 2018-09-18, 19:19:45
Trump can't be clued in. He defies Cluedom.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: ensbb3 on 2018-09-19, 20:56:39
Somewhere in mid-80's I read about Reagan's Star Wars plan. It was quite literally called that, the plan to nuclearise the atmosphere as if it belonged to the USA.
The Star Wars plan was an antinuclear program. While both the Soviets and US had plans to put nukes in orbit the plan was to put a satellite laser system in orbit to shoot down Soviet missiles (I'm sure other uses were considered). Either way I believe a treaty between the concerned parties made the need obsolete.

Only problem with that, sooner or later the USA may run out of carrots.
Done right - they don't ever get the carrot.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: ersi on 2018-09-21, 16:32:04
The Star Wars plan was an antinuclear program.
Of course that's what they said. Yet the idea was a straightforward nuclear arms race.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: ensbb3 on 2018-09-21, 18:09:04
It didn't happen and the exact opposite of an arms race followed. I must of missed your point.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: jax on 2018-09-22, 03:02:36
It was the modelling 0 to MAD. Mutually Assured Destruction was the desired state, because for any non-suicidal actor the destruction of their own side was not a winning strategy. As long as all parties were rational none would take the steps that led to MAD.

I say all instead of both, as China was a complication. China didn't and doesn't have a MAD-level arsenal, they have a nuclear deterrent. But according to a Chinese leak of unknown veracity the Soviet Union planned a nuclear attack on China, just a few years after MacArthur wanted the same during the Korean war. Now however the US blocked it, stating that a nuclear attack on China would be the same as one on the US, in effect escalating up to MAD.

MAD also made a third war in Europe unwinnable. Assuming the NATO defences were able to halt Warsaw Pact forces, it would be too tempting for the Soviet Union to use tactical weapons to penetrate and pass those defences. In that case it would be in US tactical interest to escalate as the resulting nuclear no man's land would halt that offensive. This system was unstable and would likely lead to MAD, thus not a venture to try.

The argument against Star Wars, anti-missile defences to shoot down approaching nuclear missiles, was that they too made MAD more likely. They might tempt the US to a first strike, hoping that the anti-missiles could reduce the retaliatory strike to something tolerable. There is some truth to that argument, if the US was put in a position to choose between a risky first strike or hold back and risk MAD.

But the real risk was, and still is, the ICBMs.  The other two parts of the nuclear triad, submarines and airborne, are not particularly vulnerable to first strike, but ICBMs are. If either side thought that a first strike was winnable, they might be tempted to do so rather than risk MAD. When both sides knew that the other side might attempt a first strike we had an unstable situation, either by a preemptive first strike, or by a preemptive retaliatory strike before those weapons were destroyed by the other side's first strike. With buggy detector systems on both sides, and a very short time frame from the weapons were fired to they reached their targets, the risks of accidental MAD were real. To some extent this was countered with a massive redundancy, but Star Wars could counter the counter.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: ersi on 2018-09-22, 07:32:48
It didn't happen and the exact opposite of an arms race followed. I must of missed your point.
You did not miss the point. You only miss the facts. In your world, SU collapsed by itself, instead of under the pressure of the nuclear arms race. In your world, the number of countries with nuclear weapons is going down, not up. I'll let you have your facts as you please.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: ersi on 2018-10-04, 04:51:00
NY Times has a good overview of the whole saga of Russian meddling in the Trump elections: The Plot to Subvert an Election
 (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/09/20/us/politics/russia-interference-election-trump-clinton.html)

Enough clues there to reverse engineer the journalism, to retrace the steps and to draw one's own conclusions.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: krake on 2018-10-04, 09:26:08
NY Times ...
The New York Times as Judge and Jury (https://consortiumnews.com/2018/09/21/the-new-york-times-as-judge-and-jury/)
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: ersi on 2018-10-04, 12:20:55
I specifically mentioned that the reader must follow the clues to reverse engineer the journalism. A good article enables the reader to do it. That particular one is a good article. The critics that I have read either do not know the hows and whys of journalism or do not care.

There is a difference between asserting on the one hand and reporting assertions on the other. Journalists do the latter, not the former. Critics should take note of the difference. Journalism does not prove; it informs.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: ersi on 2018-10-04, 20:18:18
The belief that there is something extraordinarily sinister about "corporate media" is eery in the context of pro-Putinism. Particularly when the pro-Putinism speedily acquires elements of pro-Trumpism.

Just think: In what way is the state of journalism in Russia better than in "corporate media"? Would Trump make a better journalist than anybody he is criticising? Why has he kept giving interviews and shown up for talk shows all these decades?

Both pro-Putinism and pro-Trumpism are authoritarian mindset in the making. If you actually suppressed "corporate media", what semblance of free speech would you be left with?

Conspiracy theorists like to think of themselves as the only ones with a critical mind, while everybody else in their view supposedly thinks exactly what journalists tell them to think.

Guess what, hardly anyone turns to newspapers or tv to obtain ready-made thoughts. Instead, they read and listen to see if there is anything worthy of some consideration. Mostly there isn't, sometimes there is. They read for reference, not for blind affirmation.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: ersi on 2018-10-06, 13:03:05
From a review of the latest Trump book - Fear: Trump in the White House by Bob Woodward
Quote from: https://www.lrb.co.uk/v40/n19/david-runciman/i-didnt-do-anything-wrong-in-the-first-place
[Chief economic adviser Gary] Cohn's obsession was to get Trump to understand that trade deficits don't have to mean America is losing: he wanted the president to know that it's possible to be in deficit and still to be growing the economy. But Trump soon lost patience. 'I don't want to hear that, it's bullshit.'

Steve Bannon, at this point the president's chief strategist, and therefore someone who had to be invited along, decided to jump in. What's the value in defending the international order if America's allies won't give anything back? Trump had made it clear he wanted to tear up the Iran nuclear deal. '"Is one of your fucking great allies up in the European Union" going to back the president?' Bannon wanted to know. 'Give me one guy. One country. One company. Who's going to back sanctions?' Now Trump perked up. '"That's what I'm talking about," Trump said. "He just made my point. You talk about all these guys as allies. There's not an ally up there. Answer Steve's question. Who's going to back us?"' No one could answer Bannon's question, so the president moved on to Afghanistan, where he couldn't understand why he was spending so much money for so little return. 'When are we going to start winning some wars? We've got these charts. When are we going to win some wars? Why are you jamming this down my throat?' The charts weren't helping. In fact they were making things worse. 'You should be killing guys,' Trump told the trained killers in the room. 'You don't need a strategy to kill people.'

By now it was clear that the meeting had backfired horribly. But no one knew how to get out of it.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: Frenzie on 2018-10-07, 09:28:59
You don't need a strategy to kill people? Hmmm...
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: jax on 2018-10-09, 09:32:24
The Putin/Trump approach to delegitimising the search for truth is to make it an aspect of team loyalty. News is "fake" or "mainstream", (supposedly just as bad), not because they failed in the process, but because they are not Team Trump. Thus truth will have no inherent advantage over falsehood. Whichever suits the team narrative wins, we get alternative truths.

Now journalists have not always been the best exponents of truth. First of all "news" is by nature different from information. News have to be "new" and emotionally engaging, so you generally miss the real and important changes, as they are filtered out. Most news channels are for-profit, or for-ideology. While journalists are taught to make that subservient to for-truth, in practice this is hard to achieve. Finally we have cultural blindness, or simply laziness. People, including journalists, are not used to see the world in a different way than they are accustomed to, and thus miss stories that could be obvious in hindsight. Add to that deadlines and that it is easier and usually more successful to follow an existing narrative than making up a new one, and most journalism will be bland.

Those shortcomings acknowledged, we are better served by incomplete inquiries and partial criticism of power, than none. Those in power know that, thus the continuous attacks on news media.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: Mr. Tennessee on 2018-10-21, 14:01:51
Is this where I vote for Trump?
 :o
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: Frenzie on 2018-10-23, 18:21:38
Just fill out this circle: o.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: jax on 2018-10-28, 18:28:11
Study shows two-thirds of U.S. terrorism tied to right-wing extremists (https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2018/09/12/study-shows-two-thirds-us-terrorism-tied-right-wing-extremists)

Quote
"A Quartz analysis of the database shows that almost two-thirds of terror attacks in the (United States) last year were tied to racist, anti-Muslim, homophobic, anti-Semitic, fascist, anti-government, or xenophobic motivations," its posting says.
The remaining attacks, the web site said, "were driven by left-wing ideologies ... and Islamic extremism."
Globally, terrorist attacks dropped from about 17,000 in 2014 to about 11,000 in 2017, including a 40 percent decline in the Middle East, according to Quartz's analysis of the START data.
But the United States has seen a recent surge in terror-related violence, with 65 attacks last year, up from six in 2006, it said.

Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: ensbb3 on 2018-10-29, 19:39:31
Fortunately two-thirds of Trump supporters are too stupid to be effective terrorists... or much else.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: jax on 2018-10-30, 05:58:24
Yes, if you are going to have terrorists, you want them to be stupid.

Just like the second-generation ISIL as the first generation got killed. Yes, that looney wolf decentralised terrorism make them harder to prevent or predict, but that is offset by an incompetence that make them as likely to get killed as to kill some bystanders.

Yet, how stupid and deluded can you get? Jade Helm, Pizzagate, Q Anon, connected to older, but still idiotic, ideas like white genocide.  It is the idiocracy/infowarification/infantilisation of terrorism, the slenderman for the grown-up and still confused.

Old-style terrorism may be deranged and vile, but at least it had a theory. Down with the king, up with my religion, we want to rule this piece of land, the dictatorship of the proletariat, lynching or pogroms of uppity minorities, urban guerrilla, even kill them because they are not kind to animals or they are performing abortions.

American McVeigh, Saudi bin Laden, Norwegian Behring Breivik may have been deranged, but they had a logic. "I want to become the king instead of the king. The Americans are protecting the king. Let us start a global meaningless war to exhaust the Americans so that they will no longer support the king. Then we will get rid of him." or "Muslim immigrants are the enemy. They want to take over Europe from within. We can't attack the enemy, because then they will get sympathy. Let us instead map out the traitors, we could for instance class them into categories A, B, and C. Then we will kill these traitors or their children until they support Muslims no more. Then we will start killing Muslims." Ridiculously complicated, breathtakingly bloody-minded, but you can see where they are going. 

But: "Let me murder some peaceful old Jews because there is a small group of people fleeing their Central American homeland, who are secretly Muslim terrorists who will somehow cross the US border to commence white genocide"?
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: string on 2018-10-30, 18:06:52
Study shows two-thirds of U.S. terrorism tied to right-wing extremists (https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2018/09/12/study-shows-two-thirds-us-terrorism-tied-right-wing-extremists)

Quote
"A Quartz analysis of the database shows that almost two-thirds of terror attacks in the (United States) last year were tied to racist, anti-Muslim, homophobic, anti-Semitic, fascist, anti-government, or xenophobic motivations," its posting says.
The remaining attacks, the web site said, "were driven by left-wing ideologies ... and Islamic extremism."
Globally, terrorist attacks dropped from about 17,000 in 2014 to about 11,000 in 2017, including a 40 percent decline in the Middle East, according to Quartz's analysis of the START data.
But the United States has seen a recent surge in terror-related violence, with 65 attacks last year, up from six in 2006, it said.
Yes, the wave of Islamic terrorism ídoes seem to have spawned a resurgence of home grown terrorism, but not just in America of course. One could cite non-Islamic groups in many countries ... Russia, Spain, UK, Sweden, Germany and so on. One might be able to find a clear cause and effect there.  Action and Reaction.
Just recently, in the UK , MI5 has taken over the fight against "Right Wing" terrorism, although why the term "Right Wing" is used seems simplistic. Top, Bottom, Left of Right  ... Terrorism is Terrorism.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/28/mi5-lead-battle-against-uk-rightwing-extremists-police-action
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: jax on 2018-10-30, 18:57:52
Islamists and right-wing terror groups (the European version anyway) share world view, terror theory, and to some extent even ideals. They just disagree on which team to win in the post-democratic society.

It seems to be a sensible reorganisation, btw. In Sweden it has partly been delegated to local counties, not a clever idea.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: ersi on 2018-12-22, 07:55:10
A gross worm creature has been formally named after Trump to sound an alarm about his climate policies



Quote from: https://www.businessinsider.com/amphibian-named-dermophis-donaldtrumpi-to-warn-trump-on-climate-change-2018-12
EnviroBuild, a company that makes sustainable building materials, paid $25,000 to name the limbless amphibian Dermophis donaldtrumpi as part of a fundraiser for the Rainforest Trust, a nonprofit conservation group.

[...]

"EnviroBuild is not an overtly political organisation, but we do feel very strongly that everyone should do everything they can to leave the world in a better way than they found it," [an EnviroBuild's cofounder said.]

[...]

It is not the first creature named after Trump. In early 2017, a small moth with yellowish-white scales that look like hair was named Neopalpa donaldtrumpi.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: ensbb3 on 2018-12-22, 10:51:11
 I wanna see a pic of the amphibian. Someone messed up.  :mad:

In all seriousness they need to stop naming stuff after the spin d[ouche]r.
Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: jax on 2018-12-22, 13:26:46
I was kind of thinking the same. The number of insect species or craters on the moon is higher than anyone would care about, but there aren't that many amphibian species around, around 7000 supposedly. Spending one of those names on a politician seems wasteful somehow. Then again, the name was up for auction as if it was some sports stadium, so why not.

For a picture of the little critter, I refer to BBC (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46614138)

Title: Re: Everything Trump…
Post by: ersi on 2018-12-23, 03:34:24
I agree. They should stop being mean to amphibians. Trump will be soon gone, but the poor amphibian will be stuck with the insulting name for quite a while longer.