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General => DnD Central => Topic started by: Sparta on 2018-12-26, 01:35:16

Title: royalty for mining
Post by: Sparta on 2018-12-26, 01:35:16
with Europe nor american standart , if you rent a land for mining.

how many % royalty you should give to the land owner? 

also are there any policies about that ?
Title: Re: royalty for mining
Post by: ersi on 2018-12-28, 12:00:41
Depends on what you plan to mine. Cryptos or unobtainium?
Title: Re: royalty for mining
Post by: ensbb3 on 2018-12-28, 17:14:57
I'd assume it's actually a lease to which you sell the mineral rights.

There's been cases involving both ore and oil in the US. How much land one owns below and above the surface varies per case. The ones I can think of aren't exactly up-to-date. Examples where drilling at an angle for oil or tunneling under someone else's property brought a lawsuit. Bit of a mixed bag of results there.

One would assume you could broker any deal in the agreement you want as long as the other party feels it's fair. I'm sure it can vary greatly depending on what is being mined. How much of an investment to extract it surely plays a part too - Environmental laws, land reclaiming efforts, labor and infrastructure all add to the overall tally. There are norms to frame the aforementioned agreement but no one here has ever stated they are in any such field.
Title: Re: royalty for mining
Post by: Frenzie on 2018-12-29, 20:48:08
Afaik it differs per state in America as well as Europe. A quick search suggests that the royalties for a lease in America will typically be at least 12.5 %.

In many European countries minerals and gases are principally the government's property, due to the 1810 Napoleonic mining law. That's often not a bad precedent, because when exploitation causes issues (cf. earthquakes in Groningen) the government would be able to respond much faster and better than when the decisions are largely in the hands of private enterprise.

(Some people frame nationalized exploitation as being about money, but that's not the case. Some two thirds of the money from Groningen goes to the Netherlands as per the Note Regarding Natural Gas from 4 October 1962 but much decision making power rests in private hands.)
Title: Re: royalty for mining
Post by: Belfrager on 2018-12-30, 11:31:33
Here in Portugal minerals, gas, oil or even water are state owned that attributes concessions to private companies for exploration. Those are very complex contracts and usually demanding extensive counterpart payments and measures. Not something available to the average citizen.

However, many people in the countryside still have small mines in their properties that were privately exploited during WWII because the country is rich in volfram which was used in war industry for the inner side of cannons. The volfram was then sold to both parts of the conflict... advantages of being neutral.  ;)

None of those mines operates anymore these days.
Title: Re: royalty for mining
Post by: Sparta on 2018-12-30, 13:59:57
Afaik it differs per state in America as well as Europe. A quick search suggests that the royalties for a lease in America will typically be at least 12.5 %.

In many European countries minerals and gases are principally the government's property, due to the 1810 Napoleonic mining law. That's often not a bad precedent, because when exploitation causes issues (cf. earthquakes in Groningen) the government would be able to respond much faster and better than when the decisions are largely in the hands of private enterprise.

(Some people frame nationalized exploitation as being about money, but that's not the case. Some two thirds of the money from Groningen goes to the Netherlands as per the Note Regarding Natural Gas from 4 October 1962 but much decision making power rests in private hands.)

if you rent a land contained gold, silver and copper

do you must give royalty per mineral, so it will become 12.5% x3
or from  total of gold, silver , and copper   profit .... give 12,5% to the land owner  ?
Title: Re: royalty for mining
Post by: Frenzie on 2018-12-30, 15:53:36
I'm not entirely sure what you're asking. 12.5 % of the total is the same as adding up 12.5 % of each individual component, and if it's 37.5 % they're after they'd probably just write 37.5 %?

Besides that, like @ensbb3 said I don't think anyone's said to have been involved in contracts of this type. ;)
Title: Re: royalty for mining
Post by: Sparta on 2018-12-30, 16:44:38
if royalty is for each mineral  mined, it will be 37,5% royalty for the land owner.
because we mine silver, gold and copper in that land.

if the royalty is total profit of selling all silver, gold , and copper, we only need to give 12,5% from the total profit.

so which one is   right ? 

also what do you think about land owner which agree to only receive 1% - 3% royalty for gold and copper in their land.
are they   smart, super smart ,  dumb or super dumb?
Title: Re: royalty for mining
Post by: Frenzie on 2018-12-30, 17:11:39
so which one is   right ?
Whichever one both parties agree to, but I'm afraid I'm still not quite understanding your 12.5 % × 3 = 37.5 % scenario.

also what do you think about land owner which agree to only receive 1% - 3% royalty for gold and copper in their land.
are they   smart, super smart ,  dumb or super dumb?
That might also depend on the up-front payment, but I'd be inclined toward dumb or desperate.
Title: Re: royalty for mining
Post by: ensbb3 on 2018-12-30, 20:42:03
Looking further it seems mines with that particular mix aren't uncommon. You can even buy one in the US. (https://minelistings.com/country/usa-mines-for-sale/) Turns out, also, laws for mining ores in the US are mostly unchanged since 1872 (https://corporate.findlaw.com/business-operations/minerals-amp-mining-law.html). Other resources have separate legislation but that seems to be the focus here.

As far as dividing the resources, you can sell the rights to a particular one alone.

Quote
"Mineral rights" entitle a person or organization to explore and produce the rocks, minerals, oil and gas found at or below the surface of a tract of land. The owner of mineral rights can sell, lease, gift or bequest them to others individually or entirely. For example, it is possible to sell or lease rights to all mineral commodities beneath a property and retain rights to the surface. It is also possible to sell the rights to a specific rock unit (such as the Pittsburgh Coal Seam) or sell the rights to a specific mineral commodity (such as limestone). Source. (https://geology.com/articles/mineral-rights.shtml)

But, unless you're getting different rates for each material there's no point in breaking them down. That's not a cumulative effect either. Total revenue less overhead is the net profit... you divide that. If you had a better rate on gold, for example, you'd make the math a little more complicated.
Title: Re: royalty for mining
Post by: Belfrager on 2018-12-31, 00:44:34
but I'm afraid I'm still not quite understanding your 12.5 % × 3 = 37.5 % scenario.
Nobody does.
Title: Re: royalty for mining
Post by: Sparta on 2018-12-31, 02:43:31
but I'm afraid I'm still not quite understanding your 12.5 % × 3 = 37.5 % scenario.
Nobody does.

well

when  you sell the gold , you give 12,5% of the selling profit to the land owner
so does with copper, and silver.

if 12,5% royalty  is from gold,  12,5% from copper, and 12,5% from silver.

in total you give 37,5% royalti from total profit.
Title: Re: royalty for mining
Post by: ensbb3 on 2018-12-31, 05:30:45
in total you give 37,5% royalti from total profit.
No, that's not right.
Title: Re: royalty for mining
Post by: Sparta on 2018-12-31, 07:41:51
in total you give 37,5% royalti from total profit.
No, that's not right.
yeah youre right

i misscalculated.

it seems too much works make me dumber
Title: Re: royalty for mining
Post by: ersi on 2018-12-31, 21:12:05
i misscalculated.
it seems too much works make me dumber
I have noticed the same thing for myself. I am thinking of switching jobs, going back to the bank. Even if too much work would continue to make me dumber there, at least I will be compelled to calculate correctly, which will hopefully be a sufficient survival skill.
Title: Re: royalty for mining
Post by: Belfrager on 2019-01-06, 00:29:57
yeah youre right

i misscalculated.
So, are you going to mine or what??
Title: Mining with a phone is not a thing
Post by: ersi on 2019-03-10, 08:15:51
None of the 'mining phones' announced at MWC19 actually mine cryptocurrency

Quote from: https://thenextweb.com/hardfork/2019/03/01/mwc-cryptocurrency-blockchain-mining-phone/
While there is nothing interesting about a poorly designed phone with mid-range specs, what piqued my curiosity was Wings Mobile's promise the handset can earn you up to 2 Ethereum each month.

Yes, you heard it right - up to 2 Ethereum a month. At the time of writing, this amounts to about $280. But at the height of the cryptocurrency mania, it would've been worth well over $2,000. For context, we tested a (somewhat) specialized Ethereum miner back in 2017, and it only mined about 1 Ethereum per month.
Ethereum is a cryptocurrency with some serious orchestrated push behind it. Last year I went to see a documentary about it in the movies, expecting it to be an intro, but it turned out to be propaganda with no information value.

Then in other news, Hackers Scoop $20 Million in ETH From Exposed Ethereum Nodes (https://cryptoslate.com/hackers-scoop-20-million-in-eth-from-exposed-ethereum-nodes/)

What's serious about this theft is that it occurred by exploiting a design flaw in the Ethereum blockchain. Phishing remains the most fruitful method of stealing online money/data, but this one happened by exploiting a leak in the architecture of the thing.

Can somebody explain to me how mining is different from straight-out theft/grabbery?