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General => DnD Central => Topic started by: jax on 2014-08-26, 19:05:02

Title: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2014-08-26, 19:05:02
So what is happening in those barely populated areas linked to the North Atlantic ocean?
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-08-27, 07:28:38
People are tweeting about what Sweden means: http://www.thelocal.se/20140820/readers-sound-off-sweden-in-a-tweet
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2014-08-27, 08:19:50
Fairly lively area actually. Just look at all those tweetings from there!

This is what happens when a walrus falls asleep on a surfacing submarine... (https://twitter.com/qikipedia/status/447096021328609280/photo/1)

Russian submarine, btw.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BjRndltIIAANruG.jpg)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2014-08-27, 08:23:24
Having moved from Norway to Sweden I've experienced some culture shock even though I am technically a Swede. More than China I wouldn't know (though Japan and Finland score much higher as strange places in the world), but I am adjusting, I think.

This list of Swedish words (http://www.thelocal.se/galleries/Culture/ten-literal-swedish-words/) correspond nicely to Norwegian words (that have all except 8 on the list), don't know about Dutch or German. [Well it should be a list, but to maximise click-throughs/annoyance it is a carousel instead. Keep on clickin']
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2014-08-27, 09:31:23
Walrus? We call those animals Morse...
Or those are Sea Lions? whatever, very good picture - the power of such strange animal sleeping over the power of steel...
You can remove the Russian out of it, photoshop him.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-08-27, 10:04:01
This list of Swedish words (http://www.thelocal.se/galleries/Culture/ten-literal-swedish-words/) correspond nicely to Norwegian words (that have all except  8) , don't know about Dutch or German. [Well it should be a list, but to maximise click-throughs/annoyance it is a carousel instead. Keep on clickin']

1. Tandkött (gums, lit. teeth meat): tandvlees/Zahnfleisch (teeth meat)
2. Ogräs (weeds, lit. ungrass): onkruid/Unkraut (unherb, not ungrass; Dutch wiet also means weed but has switched its meaning to the weed/pot/cannabis type of meaning)
3. Tjuvlyssna (eavesdrop, lit. thief listen): afluisteren/abhören (something like offlistening/offhearing, I suppose)
4. Sjukhus (hospital, lit. sickhouse): ziekenhuis/Krankenhaus (sickhouse)
5. Grönsak (vegetables, lit. greenstuff): groente/Gemüse (but really, greens/greenstuff is English too... anyway, I'm not really sure what the German word Gemüse means literally)
6. Sugrör (straw, lit. suckpipe): rietje/Strohhalm (reed/straw, and I know that rör also means reed/straw besides pipe, so really this isn't nearly as different as claimed anyway; I believe Germans also say Trinkhalm, i.e. something like drinkstraw)
7. Bröstvårta (nipples, lit. breastwart): tepel/Brustwarze (maybe there is some ancient etymological relationship between tepel/tip/nip/nipple?)
8. Bajskorv (poop, lit. poop sausage): poep/Scheiße (poop/shit... well, Dutch also has the more vulgar word schijt, but German Pup means something else I believe. I'm not familiar of any kind of sausage poop in either language.)
9. Blåmärke (bruise, lit. blue mark): blauwe plek/blauer Fleck (blue spot)
10. Dammsugare (vacuum-cleaner, lit. dustsucker): stofzuiger/Staubsauger (dustsucker)

As a general comment, the author seems to forget that several of those English terms are simply the literal Latin or French terms. They're just opaque because they're (still!) foreign to English. Well, of course vegetable means something like growthing rather than greenthing, but I hope you get my point.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2014-08-27, 10:23:21

3. Tjuvlyssna (eavesdrop): afluisteren/abhören (something like offlistening/offhearing, I suppose)

thieve-listen


6. Sugrör (straw): rietje/Strohhalm (reed/straw, and I know that rör also means reed/straw besides pipe, so really this isn't nearly as different as claimed anyway; I believe Germans also say Trinkhalm, i.e. something like drinkstraw)

literally suck-pipe, confide dammsugare
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-08-27, 10:42:34
Sorry, I didn't copy all the text from the badly navigable website. Between parentheses I was just explaining the Dutch/German specifically while occasionally commenting on English and Swedish in general, not speculating about what the Swedish might mean. I'll see if I can fix that up a bit in an edit.

I think that in Swedish a suckstraw (as in a real straw made out of some kind of grass-like plant) and a suckpipe could both be the exact same word? That is, a difference with the English word straw might be purely imaginary and a consequence of switching to paper and plastic, except that in English it's a drinking straw rather than a sucking straw.

Besides which, if you interpret rör as generic "pipe" in texts written a few hundred years ago, that would mean that English was "hilariously literal" by using straw while Swedish was hilariously abstract. Or something. :P
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: krake on 2014-08-28, 09:00:32

Walrus? We call those animals Morse...

Ole, la morsa :)
Well, in German it's "Walross" and it's deriving from two words: Wal (whale) + Ross (steed/horse)


Or those are Sea Lions?

Nope, that's a different animal :)  In German "Seelöwe": See (sea/lake) + Löwe (lion)


Tjuvlyssna (eavesdrop, lit. thief listen): afluisteren/abhören (something like offlistening/offhearing, I suppose)

I would say that "belauschen" would come closer. "Abhören" relates rather to what some three-letter agencies do. ;)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2014-08-28, 10:03:21
Reportedly, Sweden signs today and Finland next week something called Host Nation Support agreement with Nato. It's a considerable step to closer ties with Nato for both. Norway has been a Nato member since the inception of Nato, but Sweden and Finland have pretended to be neutral thus far. It should be evident that this rapprochement is due to perceived increasing aggressiveness of Russia, of which Ukrainian events are a symptom.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-08-28, 17:24:09
I would say that "belauschen" would come closer. "Abhören" relates rather to what some three-letter agencies do.

Beluisteren can be a synonym of afluisteren in Dutch depending on context, but in Dutch afluisteren is definitely the default. Semi-false friends, I suppose. Also, beluisteren can be synonymous with neutral luisteren.

een concert beluisteren == naar een concert luisteren
(belistening a concert vs. listening to a concert)

But if you belisten an enemy, you're eavesdropping on them.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2014-08-28, 18:33:51
Norway has been a Nato member since the inception of Nato

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.comicvine.com%2Fuploads%2Fscale_small%2F2%2F27783%2F1381099-dan_cooper_17.jpg&hash=13cddf2c9ce34865a6d0ab467caa7cfb" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_small/2/27783/1381099-dan_cooper_17.jpg)
Another mission for the French-Canadian ace of aviation.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2014-08-29, 07:58:16
Followup to the news
Russian politico: Finland and Sweden no longer NATO-neutral countries (http://yle.fi/uutiset/russian_politico_finland_and_sweden_no_longer_nato-neutral_countries/7437754)

Quote
NATO membership will be the next logical step for Finland and Sweden following their signing of a Host Nation Support Memorandum of Understanding with NATO, says the chair of the Russian Duma's Foreign Affairs Committee. The comments by committee chair Aleksey Pushkov were reported Wednesday by the state news agency Itar-Tass.


The battlelines have been drawn. The war in the region is not an if but when, and the plan is to have a unified front against Russia.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2014-08-29, 07:58:44
At the time, after WWII, a Nordic military alliance was mooted, moot when Denmark and Norway put the North into NATO.

Speaking of NATO countries (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1949_anti-NATO_riot_in_Iceland), the Iceland threat that's been on again and off again is back on again (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28977773).

Quote from: BBC
The fissure eruption took place between Dyngjujokull Glacier and the Askja caldera, a statement from the Department of Civil Protection said.

The area is part of the Bardabunga system.

"Scientists who have been at work close to the eruption monitor the event at a safe distance," the statement added.

"The Icelandic Met Office has raised the aviation colour code over the eruption site to red."

It added that no volcanic ash had so far been detected but a coast guard aircraft was due to take off later to survey the site.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2014-08-29, 09:45:42
Quote
NATO membership will be the next logical step for Finland and Sweden following their signing of a Host Nation Support Memorandum of Understanding with NATO, says the chair of the Russian Duma's Foreign Affairs Committee. The comments by committee chair Aleksey Pushkov were reported Wednesday by the state news agency Itar-Tass.


The battlelines have been drawn. The war in the region is not an if but when, and the plan is to have a unified front against Russia.


Nah, the situation in the North is stable. Russia could pose a credible temporary threat to the Baltic States. Russia could take these small countries faster than allies could react, a potential instability, but strategically that wouldn't make sense. Not only is Russia overall militarily weaker in this region, the benefits Russia is reaping from the friendly relationship far overwhelm the benefits, military or otherwise, from an invasion. In other words, not only would it fail, it would be stupid even if it succeeded.

Sweden and Finland know this, and can be less circumspect in their relationship to Russia than they were during the Cold War.

The calculation is different in Ukraine that is moving into the EU sphere of influence.  There's a thread about that.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2014-08-29, 10:15:05
This is also Sweden. For decades Sweden has taken in refugees from Iraq and Syria, a flow that increased after the Iraq wars, and Stockholm/Södertälje is becoming a world capital of Assyrians/Syriacs.

National team losing its nation (http://National team losing its nation)
Quote
The stadium is empty of the Assyrians. The place is desolated. The wind is howling like a hammer. No one is here, and it is not surprising. Assyriska FF has neither training nor match today. Yet there is a parallel to make, a connection extending from the safe streets of Sweden to the infernal Iraq.

For the first time in almost 2,000 years, the church bells have stopped ringing in Nineveh. The city is empty of Assyrians. The place is desolated. The wind of evil howls like a hammer upon the minority who now face extinction. The people have been forced to choose between escaping, converting to Islam - or die.

What once was called Assyria? Now there is only Assyriska, the team that has been the stateless peoples national football team for forty years.

This autumn, the Assyrians are fighting two great battles. Both are about survival. There are more than 3000 kilometres between Södertälje and Nineveh - the new and old capital of the Assyrians - but there is no difference between this club and this people. [...]

Assyriska are in the bottom of the league and still without a victory in Södertälje Football Arena - but the loss of the home is worse than the losses at home. The Assyrian award-winning journalist Nuri Kino explains:

- Our people - Assyrians, also called Syriacs and Chaldeans - and the Yezidis, were previously the majority of the Nineve Plain, which is emptied of its population. Our churches are being destroyed, our women and children are being kidnapped. It is enough. The world needs to open its eyes.

How serious is the situation?
- Alarming.

While the Assyrian Federation of Sweden is actively working to shed light on the difficult situation of the Assyrians, Kino runs the global campaign "A Demand for Action." Together with members in 15 countries, he is working to get refugees sheltered.

Kino is doing his best to get the world to act. So does the supporters of the club.

A few weeks ago, Assyriska went to the Swedish capital to face Hammarby at Tele2 Arena. The supporters wore shirts with the Arabic letter "N", the same letter as the terrorist organization IS painted on the Christian homes in Iraq, just like the Nazis did to the Jews during The Holocaust. "N" stands for "Nasrany", which means Christians.

Kino talks about a reaction to this action:
- The priest Ashur Elkhouri published a picture of himself where he bows his head for his national team for what it did during the game against Hammarby. Normally, a priest bows his head only to God, so evidently the feelings were very strong. I was at a meeting in a church in Los Angeles when the game was played, and the action made many in the church cry. [...]

The team captain David Durmaz tries to pinpoint the problem. He played in Assyriska during the time in Allsvenskan and thinks that the club has a very different spirit now compared to ten years ago. Back then, the short passings were a bit faster, the sharpness a bit edgier, the organization a bit more more professional. Now Assyriska creates chances without winning. Now they have to turn the tables as a united club. But off the field?

- On the way to our last game against Degerfors, our midfielder George Makdessi showed me a YouTube clip on his cellphone. His own cousin, with the same last name, completely exhausted and wounded by gunshots is lying in a bed. An IS-flag is seen and someone asks him in Arabic what his name is, what army he was an officer for ... After a while, the clip ended. George said that the man's father had received photos a few days later. The pictures are showing the man lying in bed - beheaded.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2014-08-29, 11:09:27

Nah, the situation in the North is stable. Russia could pose a credible temporary threat to the Baltic States. Russia could take these small countries faster than allies could react, a potential instability, but strategically that wouldn't make sense. Not only is Russia overall militarily weaker in this region, the benefits Russia is reaping from the friendly relationship far overwhelm the benefits, military or otherwise, from an invasion. In other words, not only would it fail, it would be stupid even if it succeeded.

Two pieces of news for you: 1. The motives behind wars are often stupider than politics in general. Surely you acknowledge that politics in general demonstrate below average rationality. Wars are even more stupid.

2. Russian aircrafts have violated Finland's airspace three times just this week. The airspace violations have gone up from monthly to almost daily.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2014-08-29, 17:27:53
the Iceland threat that's been on again and off again is back on again (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28977773).
And back off again (http://www.iceland.is/press-media/volcanic-eruption-in-iceland/).
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.iceland.is%2Fimages%2Fbardarbunga.png&hash=1b41d86407053b50b8c90f6c3b5d4801" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.iceland.is/images/bardarbunga.png)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2014-08-29, 19:59:50

Two pieces of news for you: 1. The motives behind wars are often stupider than politics in general. Surely you acknowledge that politics in general demonstrate below average rationality. Wars are even more stupid.

2. Russian aircrafts have violated Finland's airspace three times just this week. The airspace violations have gone up from monthly to almost daily.


I believe Russia, as well as the US and China, have reasonable fail-safes against idiot politicians. The top leadership has considerable leeway, but will not be able to start a nuclear war or a major conventional war on a whim. Acts of stupidity isn't unheard of, but pure insanity is.

The Baltic States are hardest to defend of all NATO territory. The other border states have land, in the case of Scandinavia very hostile terrain, on which to defend and degrade an invader, while the Baltic States are more like Netherlands. I don't know how the doctrine changed when the Baltic States became members, but I guess the battle plan would be to invade Russia to cut off supply lines, putting Russia's second city in harm's way, and with a very real risk of nuclear conflagration. Not good for Russia, not good for anyone.

The forward capabilities of NATO in this area is slight (basically the strategy for all the Scandinavian countries is to dig in and wait for reinforcements/the offensive to peter out/nuclear war, whichever comes first), that or an unwillingness to go to all-out war for the Baltic States (which would surprise me greatly) would be the only hope for a military adventure. Russia isn't the Soviet Union, the Baltic States isn't that much of a prize, and anyway they are more useful as they are now. Harassment and Finlandisation, sure, that's feasible scenarios. Taking the Northern regions made sense if you also planned to roll in with columns of tanks through Germany, and we don't have scenarios like in those good old days any more.

Everything about the Baltic States apply to Scandinavia as well. The pure defence capabilities have been reduced for the capabilities to visit countries in foreign continents, and bomb them. Sign of the times, I guess. Even so, they have "not worth it" written all over them. The relationship between Norway and Russia hasn't been as good since the Russian Revolution (and the next NATO gen.sec. is Norwegian), and the border disputes are resolved. Even at these best of times, there was a border incursion once a week on average (what it is now I don't know).

The Baltic States are safe from any thinkable Russian regime.  They are like Slovenia in the Jugoslav wars.  If I were mistaken I'll buy you a beer. The rest of what used to be the Soviet Union is a different story, there is no former Soviet Republic in which Russia hasn't meddled.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2014-08-29, 20:14:10
Speaking of which, the US equipment stored in Norwegian caves is significantly upgraded.

American Heavy Tanks to be Stored in Mountains of Norway (http://en.ria.ru/military_news/20140805/191736300/American-Heavy-Tanks-to-be-Stored-in-Mountains-of-Norway--.html)

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fen.ria.ru%2Fimages%2F19173%2F69%2F191736995.jpg&hash=2e642d20aa3688e9ecd1f361ceded7b1" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://en.ria.ru/images/19173/69/191736995.jpg)

Quote
MOSCOW, August 5 (RIA Novosti) - US cargo ship USNS PFC Dewayne T. Williams is expected to arrive in the small Norwegian village of Namdalseid on August 10, bringing heavy tanks, armored personnel carriers and landing crafts, the local Adresseavisen newspaper reported on Tuesday.

The cargo will include third-generation main battle tanks of the M1A1 Abrams type. This new, heavier equipment will replace trucks and personnel carriers which were previously stored in the mountain bunkers of Central Norway.

Local defense sources, cited by the Norwegian Aftenposten newspaper, say that the US' decision to change war equipment stored in Norway was made on the basis of experiences from Iraq and Afghanistan.


As I see it, this is good for peace, as any US military equipment kept out of range from US police stations makes the world a more peaceful place.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2014-08-29, 20:20:18

If I were mistaken I'll buy you a beer.

Yeah, totally compensates for the war. Thanks!

(I don't even drink.)

Btw, third piece of news is Russian submarines spotted from passenger ferries between Finland, Estonia, and Sweden http://www.delfi.ee/news/paevauudised/eesti/ainult-delfis-video-tallinki-laevareisija-jaadvustas-laevast-moodunud-allveelaeva.d?id=69635869
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2014-08-29, 20:41:38


If I were mistaken I'll buy you a beer.

Yeah, totally compensates for the war. Thanks!

(I don't even drink.)


You might start if there were one.

Btw, third piece of news is Russian submarines spotted from passenger ferries between Finland, Estonia, and Sweden http://www.delfi.ee/news/paevauudised/eesti/ainult-delfis-video-tallinki-laevareisija-jaadvustas-laevast-moodunud-allveelaeva.d?id=69635869


Submarines that could be spotted from those Baltic Sea spy ferries wouldn't be much of a danger, now they hopefully wouldn't pose a danger to nearby rocks anymore.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2014-08-30, 02:57:50
Perhaps they are civilian submarines :left:
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2014-08-31, 00:17:02
That one about Russian planes leaning on Finland. How about the US navy leaning on mainland China? Considering you are in hock to that country seems a bit stupid.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Macallan on 2014-08-31, 00:35:12

I think that in Swedish a suckstraw (as in a real straw made out of some kind of grass-like plant) and a suckpipe could both be the exact same word? That is, a difference with the English word straw might be purely imaginary and a consequence of switching to paper and plastic, except that in English it's a drinking straw rather than a sucking straw.

In german the word for pipe - 'Rohr' - used to mean reed, and in some contexts still does. Then, in northern german there's Reet, which means reed. Halm means the hollow stalk of a plant. So, Strohhalm ( more common than Trinkhalm where/when I grew up ) means literally straw stalk. English usage sounds like a typical abbreviation of something like that.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2014-09-02, 01:11:11
Interesting points there. Over the Border in northern England local dialects especially rural when using the word 'right' pronounce it 'reet'.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2014-09-05, 20:09:53
It would be interesting to hear about the Scottish take on the Estonian border spy snatching incident. The most agreeable sources say that FSB suppressed an undercover operation (http://www.interfax.ru/world/395280) on Russian soil and detained Eston Kohver, an Estonian Kapo officer loaded with pistol Taurus, 5000 euros, covert sound recording gear, and "other materials of spyish nature".

Update: Russian media is quite silent about the incident. Russian major news agencies only contain a single item right now, 12 hours after the event is supposed to have taken place, and they refuse to update. Here it is by ITAR-TASS http://itar-tass.com/proisshestviya/1423990

Estonian border guards say that immediately after the event ("within minutes") they arrived on the spot, invited Russian border guards to investigate too. Both Estonian and Russian border officials drew up and signed a document acknowledging a breach of border from the Russian side. It would help to see the actual document too, of course, but at this point it looks like Russian FSB are contradicting their own border guards.

Estonian government called out Russian ambassador and had a talk. Russian ambassador assured his support in solving the issue. Estonian officials investigate the incident as "a crime without political motivation" in an evident attempt to downplay the seriousness of the incident. I mean, FSB has admitted direct involvement and this self-evidently means everything about this is political.

Update 2: Aha, Lenta.ru says that, according to "a source in Russian special services", Eston Kohver was supposed to meet his snitch where he was arrested. The snitch was a citizen of Russia http://lenta.ru/news/2014/09/05/agent/

Update 3: Eston Kohver has been placed under arrest by Moscow court. He is suspected of spying and has to sit 2 months until his case is investigated. In case of conviction for this crime, Russian law prescribes 10 to 20 years jail http://www.interfax.ru/russia/395367

Estonian authorities are gradually trying to look respectable while getting nothing done. The supposed allies from Nato etc. are pretending that nothing happened.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2014-09-21, 13:09:58
What's going on in West Lothian?

Moving North by North-East, this travelogue from New York TImes (http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/09/19/travel/reif-larsen-norway.html) might be retitled What's Hardly Going On Along the West Coast of Norway, but I liked it for the use of web techniques, that also actually matched the drift of the article.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2014-09-21, 18:21:52
I was amused at that earlier query from ersi about a Scottish reaction. Not being an independent State kind of pointless!  :lol:
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2014-09-28, 04:03:29
I was reminded of a good reason to stay away from Norway in late April and good parts of May: Norwegian youth with the "right" to be annoying.

"Norway's Crazy High School Tradition Puts Other Teens Around The World To Shame (http://www.buzzfeed.com/sheridanwatson/this-crazy-norwegian-tradition-makes-teens-everywhere-else-l)"

(Speaking of annoying, I'm sorry for the stupid headline fad, the Internet these days...)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2014-09-30, 21:45:54
Putin has not been away from the news, even though I have:

Russia detains Lithuanian fishing vessel "Juros Vilkas" (http://baltic-review.com/2014/09/russia-detains-lithuanian-fishing-vessel-juros-vilkas/)

Western media is quite silent about this. News of this type are of maximum importance in the Baltic countries. 
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2014-10-01, 04:37:07
Western media is quite silent about this. News of this type are of maximum importance in the Baltic countries.

"Western" media is always quite silent about a lot of things.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2014-10-02, 07:42:17
Charming picture of "the worst road tunnel in Norway".

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fgfx.nrk.no%2F%2F4pq2I5POxsEjp2XBbMnOCQqi-ad8ryZil9fhYn3vh0aw&hash=9685172988399fa7ae800521e48502fe" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://gfx.nrk.no//4pq2I5POxsEjp2XBbMnOCQqi-ad8ryZil9fhYn3vh0aw)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2014-10-02, 09:59:01
Speaking of winter sports, Oslo just followed Lviv, Krakow, Stockholm, and Munich and withdrew from their bid for the Winter Olympics 2022, leaving two cities standing: Almaty, Kazakhstan, and this city (Beijing, with a little help from neighbouring, and more wintery Zhangjiakou).

Oslo Latest City to Drop out of 2022 Olympic Race (http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/norway-government-rejects-2022-winter-olympics-25894588?singlePage=true)

Quote
The Olympics that no one seems to want is down to just two candidates.

Oslo became the latest city to drop its bid for the 2022 Winter Games after the Norwegian government rejected financial backing for the project on Wednesday amid concerns the games were too costly -- a decision the IOC said was based on "half-truths and factual inaccuracies."

Oslo's exit leaves Beijing and Almaty, Kazakhstan, as the only two contenders.

Oslo is the fourth city to pull out of a race that has been thrown into turmoil in the wake of the 2014 Winter Games in Sochi, where the overall price tag was put at $51 billion, scaring off politicians and taxpayers and leaving the International Olympic Committee with a major image crisis.


Apart from the ballooning cost, combined with a distaste for the IOC (and a dislike for Oslo from the rest of the country) made the bid increasingly unpopular. A published list of the IOC requirements and privileges a couple days ago sunk the bid. In English:
IOC demands smiles, ridiculous perks ahead of 2022 Olympic bid (http://www.cbssports.com/general/eye-on-sports/24732982/ioc-demands-smiles-ridiculous-perks-ahead-of-2022-olympic-bid)
Quote
Aside from the lack of public support (ask Brazil about the World Cup and Olympic projects), the IOC laid out a list of ridiculous demands as part of what would've been Oslo's bid.

First, the IOC wanted to meet the king prior to the opening ceremony. Next it wanted never-ending drinks payable to the royal family or the Norwegian Olympic Committee.

Okay, well yeah, I guess. VG mined the 7,000+ pages of requirements from the IOC, and most pertained to security. The following do not.

Car and drivers for all IOC members.
Diverted and prioritized Olympic traffic
Dedicated Olympic traffic lanes, not to be used by regular people
"IOC members will be received with a smile on arrival at hotel"
Hotel bars must be open "extra late" and can only serve Coca-Cola products
All conference rooms must be kept at exactly 68 degrees
"All furniture should be OL-shaped and have Olympic Appearance"

Finally, the IOC "proposes the closure of schools, and the local people are encouraged to take vacations."

Thus far Stockholm, Sweden, Krakow, Poland, and Lviv, Ukraine, have all pulled their bids. The only bidders left are Almaty, Kazakhstan, and Beijing, China. If all else fails, there's always Sochi, Russia.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2014-10-19, 06:47:47
Massive military operation at Sweden's Baltic Sea coast right now looking after "suspicious submarine activity" [edit: can also be translated as "suspicious underwater activity" but there's no real difference :) ]. A foreign (=Russian) submarine is said to have stranded somewhere in Stockholm archipelago and sent out an SOS signal.

Uppgifter: Skadad rysk ubåt utlöste försvarslarmet (http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=83&artikel=5994814)

This would not be the first time:

Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2014-10-19, 21:12:23
What language is that in the video at vimeo?
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Macallan on 2014-10-21, 14:23:36

What language is that in the video at vimeo?

Looks swedish to me.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2014-10-21, 19:13:12
@Belfrager

The video is about Swedes discovering a stranded Soviet military submarine during the cold war. At one point they say that the Russians claimed that they got lost due to a navigation error, but Swedish investigation showed this was a lie.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2014-10-24, 07:35:54
Swedish army says they got tired of searching. They are not telling if they found anything. Ordinary civilians meanwhile spotted a bunch of submarines, photographed and tweeted them all over the place.

Edit: The Swedish military gave a press conference (http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=103&artikel=5999819) too. The funniest sentence in the statement is this: "Det vi med säkerhet kunnat utesluta är en konventionell u-båt." It translates as "What we can exclude with certainty is a conventional submarine ship." So, it certainly wasn't a conventional submarine ship. (Is conventional submarine ship something for civilian use?)

To me the statement more properly means We couldn't find anything, conventional or unconventional. It got away.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: krake on 2014-10-24, 12:06:41

Edit: The Swedish military gave a press conference (http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=103&artikel=5999819) too. The funniest sentence in the statement is this: "Det vi med säkerhet kunnat utesluta är en konventionell u-båt." It translates as "What we can exclude with certainty is a conventional submarine ship." So, it certainly wasn't a conventional submarine ship.


It was Belfrager with his convertible submarine!  :o
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2014-10-24, 13:54:06
There is a convertible car/sub.

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.barbagallo.com.au%2Fuploads%2Fimage%2FLotus_Esprit_JamesBond_0003.jpg&hash=bf59777f11addd60b20680de5da99581" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.barbagallo.com.au/uploads/image/Lotus_Esprit_JamesBond_0003.jpg)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2014-10-25, 08:41:08

There is a convertible car/sub.

This is not at all similar to what people reported they saw:
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fsverigesradio.se%2Fsida%2Fimages%2F94%2F3429376_2048_1152.jpg&hash=879ccd5fd8bd2a7b1c4f0078fa46c2de" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://sverigesradio.se/sida/images/94/3429376_2048_1152.jpg)
But meanwhile it turns out in Sweden you can buy a submarine over internet (http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=95&artikel=5972824) no problemo.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2014-10-27, 02:09:13
Is Mark "on the map" yet? :)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2014-10-28, 02:38:57
It is already "on the map" in the sense that you will find it if you search for "Mark, Sweden" on Google Map, but I had never heard of it, and that, combined with the overly generic name, made me curious. Oslo has a mark called (by Oslo people) The Mark, but for outsiders it is known as The Oslo Mark.

Mark, no definite article and no prefix, is, as it happens, a landlocked piece of nowhere not too distant from Gothenburg (but still with a Wikipedia entry in 22 languages, including Scots (http://sco.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Municipality) and Swahili). This submarine purchase is no doubt the most exciting thing to happen to the place the last century or so. The county is a new one, from merging eight even smaller counties, and then the story turned into legacy.

Most countries, even Britain, have streamlined and rationalised their administrative structures. Not so much Sweden. Or they have, several times, it is just taking some centuries to sink in, like with the provinces of Sweden (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provinces_of_Sweden). The boundaries between administrative, mustering, legal (courts), church units (parishes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socken)) were overlapping, and in some cases are overlapping still. In this case we're talking of a härad or hundred (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hundred_(county_division)).
Quote
Eventually that division was superseded by introducing the härad or Herred, which was the term in the rest of Scandinavia. This word was either derived from Proto-Norse *harja-raiðō (warband) or Proto-Germanic *harja-raiða (war equipment, cf. Wapentake). Similar to skipreide, a part of the coast where the inhabitants were responsible for equipping and manning a war ship.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: krake on 2014-10-28, 11:08:06
Once again, a short anatomy about how disinformation works in our "trusted" media. :)

Disinformation nr.1:

Quote
Btw, third piece of news is Russian submarines spotted from passenger ferries between Finland, Estonia, and Sweden
http://www.delfi.ee/news/paevauudised/eesti/ainult-delfis-video-tallinki-laevareisija-jaadvustas-laevast-moodunud-allveelaeva.d?id=69635869


Whatever have been spotted by whomever, there was never an evidence that it was of Russian origin.

Disinformation nr.2:

Quote
A foreign (=Russian) submarine is said to have stranded somewhere in Stockholm archipelago and sent out an SOS signal.
Uppgifter: Skadad rysk ubåt utlöste försvarslarmet (http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=83&artikel=5994814)


Sweden's signal intelligence agency, knows nothing about the alleged SOS signal.

Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2014-10-28, 12:21:19

Once again, a short anatomy about how disinformation works in our "trusted" media. :)

Are you anatomising me rather than "our" media?


Disinformation nr.1:

Quote
Btw, third piece of news is Russian submarines spotted from passenger ferries between Finland, Estonia, and Sweden
http://www.delfi.ee/news/paevauudised/eesti/ainult-delfis-video-tallinki-laevareisija-jaadvustas-laevast-moodunud-allveelaeva.d?id=69635869


Whatever have been spotted by whomever, there was never an evidence that it was of Russian origin.

This newsbit was fixed/updated later. Holland admitted it was their submarine on visit to Tallinn http://www.delfi.ee/news/paevauudised/valismaa/laevaga-tallinna-teel-olnud-soomlased-pidasid-hollandi-allveelaeva-vene-omaks?id=69969063


Disinformation nr.2:

Quote
A foreign (=Russian) submarine is said to have stranded somewhere in Stockholm archipelago and sent out an SOS signal.
Uppgifter: Skadad rysk ubåt utlöste försvarslarmet (http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=83&artikel=5994814)


Sweden's signal intelligence agency, knows nothing about the alleged SOS signal.

Sweden's agencies *admit* nothing about the signal. There's a difference. This does not make the signal any more real, but it also does not deligitimise what's called "undisclosed sources" by the media.

By the way, Russian submarines have a base in Kaliningrad. That's Königsberg for you. And they go back and forth between St. Peterburg all the time. Incidents with them used to be suppressed, but now in the midst of greater international tensions (including Nato submarines visiting Tallinn) they are scandalised. Normal media behaviour. Happens even in Russia.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: krake on 2014-10-28, 18:39:00

Are you anatomising me rather than "our" media?


I'm rather anatomising "our" media.
As for speaking about you, it doesn't came as a surprise that you were in hurry to bring the misguiding headlines while you didn't bother to mention about the "fixed/updated newsbit".
As for the alleged Russian SOS signal: http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/forsvaret-inget-ryskt-nodsamtal-bakom-ubatsjakt/

Sweden's agencies *admit* nothing about the signal. There's a difference...


"undisclosed sources" by the media you say?
Worthless allegations which can't be verified and aren't worth the paper they are written on.
With other words a simply method to spread disinformations/lies with minimal risk to get caught. It's an often used method by "our" media lately.

Really no need to twist things furthermore and trying to make white looking black - even if you claim to have a diploma for that. :)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2014-10-28, 20:16:44


Are you anatomising me rather than "our" media?


I'm rather anatomising "our" media.
As for speaking about you, it doesn't came as a surprise that you were in hurry to bring the misguiding headlines while you didn't bother to mention about the "fixed/updated newsbit".

Right, so you were anatomising me. Had you cared to pay attention how I treat news, you'd know my total skepticism for media.


As for the alleged Russian SOS signal: http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/forsvaret-inget-ryskt-nodsamtal-bakom-ubatsjakt/

Or you can read the BBC summary (with images) (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29722500)
You can read about Russians saying it's a Dutch submarine (http://rt.com/news/197412-sweden-sub-dutch-russia/) (Russian source, and a Jewish one too (http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/1.621740))
You can read about the Dutch denying it's their submarine (http://www.bbc.co.uk/russian/international/2014/10/141020_sweden_submanire_dutch_denial) (Only in BBC's Russian section for some funny reason. BBC doesn't have the same article in English. Go figure.)

Choose your poison.

You don't like it when I point to Western sources? Funny then that you should also point to Western sources to refute me. Which Western sources are better? And I'm sure you noticed I can find Russian sources too - in Russian even. Can you?


"undisclosed sources" by the media you say?
Worthless allegations which can't be verified and aren't worth the paper they are written on.
With other words a simply method to spread disinformations/lies with minimal risk to get caught. It's an often used method by "our" media lately.

You can also read how Svenska Dagbladet, the originator of the SOS alarm story, (http://www.svd.se/nyheter/inrikes/inga-skal-att-misstro-de-uppgifter-vi-fick_4048817.svd) argues against DN to protect the sources. It's journalism.

Can you tell in what ways is "their" media better? Or is it?
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2014-10-28, 22:25:15
Since the German submarines the corrupt, anti patriotic and German collaborationist govern of my country bought, with the money of my people, don't work anymore the day after delivery, that submarine that was spotted somewhere has to be American.
End of discussion.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2014-11-16, 16:21:56
And here's Swedish military speaking up about their findings, taking the head out of sand. Defence forces: A small submarine violated Swedish waters (http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=83&artikel=6018660)

And here are two images that they say prove their case. One where the said submarine is said to have scraped the seafloor:
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fsverigesradio.se%2Fsida%2Fimages%2F83%2F3440564_2048_1152.jpg&hash=3ecf96e26cc327039a85add3d10b3740" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://sverigesradio.se/sida/images/83/3440564_2048_1152.jpg)

Another taken by an eye-witness:
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fsverigesradio.se%2Fsida%2Fimages%2F83%2F3440558_2048_1152.jpg&hash=3b275d9d8dcca2d33b93cadfe51874cb" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://sverigesradio.se/sida/images/83/3440558_2048_1152.jpg)

Anyway, Krake, I don't really care if the Russian submarine was really there. Or, more precisely, I don't care how solidly it can be proven. And I don't care if it was really Russian. The Swedish military says they can't confirm the nationality of the submarine.

What matters is how threateningly Russia behaves. Again, it doesn't matter if Russia really means to threaten, but it matters when it's perceived this way. It matters when Nordic ministers meet (http://svenska.yle.fi/artikel/2014/10/28/ryssland-och-forsvar-hetast-pa-nr-mote) and they discuss the apparent change in Russian doctrine of foreign policies and defence with a sense of urgency. This meeting took place when the search for the submarine had just ended seemingly inconclusively. The ministers met and behaved as if the violation had occurred. This matters. If the violation really occurred matters less, because wars are fought more often over "seems" and "should", not over "is".
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2014-11-17, 21:42:32
The Nordics were like the Yanks as they go bananas and like emotional children. I am not seriously concerned and you would think this was 1939 all over again. Talk about us in the West losing the plot.  :lol:
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2014-11-18, 08:51:07
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-amcagETPQkc%2FUueV72YHYCI%2FAAAAAAAAIpg%2F5pFMnTOGF1w%2Fs1600%2FWhen%2Bthe%2Bfirst%2Bbananas%2Bcame%2Bto%2BNorway%2C%2B1905.jpg&hash=fff95da5a84513c8076ecff7e37ceba8" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-amcagETPQkc/UueV72YHYCI/AAAAAAAAIpg/5pFMnTOGF1w/s1600/When+the+first+bananas+came+to+Norway,+1905.jpg)

When the first bananas came to Norway, 1905 (http://rarehistoricalphotos.com/first-bananas-came-norway-1905/)

Quote
This is actually one of the first batches of banana that was sent to Norway. It had the weight of 3000 kilos and came in crates/boxes. One of the persons in this picture is Christian Mathiessen, the founder of Norways biggest fruit importer, Bama. Norway was actually the second country to import bananas in Europe, after the UK. It's very interesting that before global trading became as it is today, people really didn't encounter many products that weren't made locally. Seeing an item made in China must have seemed exotic to someone living in Mexico during 1832.

The bananas in the photo are Gros Michel bananas. Gros Michel, often known as Big Mike, is an export cultivar of banana and was, until the 1950s, the main variety exported to the United States. His variety was once the dominant export banana to Europe and North America, grown in South America and Africa. In the 1950s the Panama disease, a wilt caused by the fungus Fusarium oxysporum, wiped out vast tracts of 'Gros Michel' plantations in South America and Africa, but the cultivar survived in Thailand. The original 'Gros Michel' is said to have a unique fragrance. The Panama disease inflicted enormous costs and forced producers to switch to other, disease-resistant cultivars. However, new strains of Panama disease threaten the production of today's most popular cultivar, Cavendish.

Portugese sailors brought bananas to Europe from West Africa in the early fifteenth century. Its Guinean name banema, which became banana in English, was first found in print in the seventeenth century. The original banana has been cultivated and used since ancient times, even pre-dating the cultivation of rice. While the banana thrived in Africa, its origins are said to be of East Asia and Oceania. The banana was carried by sailors to the Canary Islands and the West Indies, finally making it to North America with Spanish missionary Friar Tomas de Berlanga.


In this regard, bananas were a bit like the Internet. The UK and Norway were the first two countries to connect to America in 1972.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2014-11-18, 12:24:54

The Nordics were like the Yanks as they go bananas and like emotional children. I am not seriously concerned and you would think this was 1939 all over again. Talk about us in the West losing the plot.  :lol:
Well, 1939 was real. And as then, so also now Germany and Russia threaten the continent first, while you on the isles can be safe. Have you even seen a Russian? Or a German?

Here's how Balts and Nordics look like:

Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2014-11-19, 01:50:25
No Russia does not threaten the West. Guess who is always marching about the world with massive military bills to keep the money barons rich? Germany likes the EEC because it unofficially runs the damn thing and I just want my country out the corrupt mess it is in. Thank goodness we kept the pound as that European lot cannot get out of the mess and we are doing best financially re Europe.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2014-11-19, 15:13:36
in Sweden you can buy a submarine over internet no problemo.

Here, too.
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia-cache-ak0.pinimg.com%2F236x%2Fc9%2Fc9%2F92%2Fc9c9925caf301f4b033236f37796b275.jpg&hash=6ead25234a485a8764da8a5711092f08" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/c9/c9/92/c9c9925caf301f4b033236f37796b275.jpg)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2014-11-20, 05:11:15
Thanks for that.

Last summer I was walking in a public park and a wee lad had a remote controlled speedboat. That reminded me when I was wee I would have liked a submarine. Now you have reminded me again so must see about getting one. Thanks
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2014-11-20, 21:07:02
Make sure it'll fit in your bathtub. :D
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2014-11-21, 08:00:00
 :lol:
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: krake on 2014-11-21, 22:33:42

Make sure it'll fit in your bathtub. :D

I have a better idea. Put a Russian flag on it and guide it into Scandinavian waters :D
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: tt92 on 2014-11-22, 00:01:06

Make sure it'll fit in your bathtub. :D

Don't be silly. It's already full of coal.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2014-11-23, 04:25:28
I will leave the coal to you Yanks as you still persevere with the aftermath of coal. We on the other hand have been moving to something cleaner. As for that Scandinavian thing there is no proof of what was under the sea and the Swedes were dithering about like a lot of ex-colonists at the election meetings that look like carnivals. Anyway the Russians have an awful lot of catching up on you lot over the pond you spy on just about everyone including your own phone calls, messages, - as well as the world. Talk about hystericals.

Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2015-01-14, 17:54:44
From Norway: Assassin fined for not killing the intended target, nor having any intentions of doing so, thereby defrauding the client. Good to know that customer protection is strong in Norway. There should be honour among assassins.

Google translated here (https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.varden.no%2Fnyheter%2Fleiemorder-21-fikk-bot-for-a-ikke-drepe-1.1366443&edit-text=).

Quote
Assassin (21) got fined for not killing

The contract killer got 10,000 kroner in fines for not killing. Police believe it was fraud against the client.

The 21-year-old had received up to 60,000 kroner from a same-aged man to kill a 17-year-old he was in love with. The 17-year-old had rejected the advances.

The contract killer took the money and knives, but never performed any murder. Now the client is sentenced to two years in prison for having ordered the killing, while the assassin is fined for not having done so.

Cheated customer
Police believe he deliberately cheated the contracting party and thus was guilty of fraud.
- He was fined for having enticed a man to disburse money under false pretenses, said District Attorney Per Halsbog in Vestfold and Telemark public prosecutor.

The deceived client claims he paid assassin 60,000 kroner, who claims to have received 40,000 kroner.

- Just wanted the money
He was fined for having received 18,000 kroner. The basis of the fine is a violation of Penal Code Section 270, fraud provision.
- The investigation showed he never had any intention to kill. He only wanted the money, says Attorney Per Halsbog.

"Why is he still alive? '
Buyer nagged at him several times to finish off murder pact he thought the two had agreed on. In an agitated SMS exchange he wrote:
"Why is he still alive??? Are you not able do a job !!!" "He should have been killed !!! Stop making excuses. Why the hell is not it done?" and "Yes, you do it now! You got damn enough money now !! Run in a knife or something"

Eventually the assassin said that he would only beat up 17-year-old, but he had a buddy who could commit murder if he got another 30,000 kroner.

- He only kept talking to get more money, says Attorney is Halsbog, who also was the prosecutor in the case against the client.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2015-01-14, 18:47:11
It sounds like the fraudulent "assassin" still came out on top with over 10,000 kroner in his pocket. :lol:
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-01-15, 01:24:17
No proof it was Russian krake the head scramblers have effected you!
And begorra to tt92...he should understand that.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2015-01-15, 09:40:27
http://www.thelocal.se/20150102/swedish-security-service-goes-viral-in-first-tweet
Quote
Sweden's Security Service Säpo posted its first tweet on Friday [two weeks ago], with a cheeky enough message to make headlines across Sweden.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-01-15, 13:59:52
I like it! NSA and the CIA should be so upfront.
Mad Magazine could do no better.
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.washingtonpost.com%2Fnews%2Fcomic-riffs%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fsites%2F15%2F2015%2F01%2FMADhebdo-904x1024.jpg&hash=45cfb6d21bbfb7bc61f27aa8fbc969f9" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://img.washingtonpost.com/news/comic-riffs/wp-content/uploads/sites/15/2015/01/MADhebdo-904x1024.jpg)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2015-01-17, 11:14:41
Losing and finding yourself in Iceland, Missing woman unwittingly joins search party looking for herself (http://www.torontosun.com/2012/08/28/missing-woman-unwittingly-joins-search-party-for-herself)
Quote
A group of tourists spent hours Saturday night looking for a missing woman near Iceland's Eldgja canyon, only to find her among the search party.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-01-19, 19:25:38
Is that Mad mag still going??
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2015-01-19, 20:53:21

Is that Mad mag still going??

It remains alive in spirit through your posts.   :D
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-01-19, 22:13:27

Losing and finding yourself in Iceland, Missing woman unwittingly joins search party looking for herself (http://www.torontosun.com/2012/08/28/missing-woman-unwittingly-joins-search-party-for-herself)
Quote
A group of tourists spent hours Saturday night looking for a missing woman near Iceland's Eldgja canyon, only to find her among the search party.


Everybody is searching for themselves at these pathetic times.
News will be when finding someone not searching for himself.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: krake on 2015-01-20, 00:25:58

No proof it was Russian krake the head scramblers have effected you!

Argh! You should have a better detection for invisible irony tags. :)
Besides, your sub with the suggested flag would be the best proof. Imagine Google's satellite photos and the headlines. :D
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-01-20, 19:49:51
Don't give me the credit for the magazine Colonel when it is yours over there. I could not be that greedy as don't need to be not being an ex-colonist.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: SmileyFaze on 2015-01-21, 19:41:31
Glasgow reacts to being named 'UK's most violent area'
by UK Peace Index (http://www.visionofhumanity.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/UK-Peace-Index-2013-IEP-Report.pdf)



(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Ffiles.stv.tv%2Fimagebase%2F3%2F623x349%2F3139-mandatory-knife-sentences-ineffective-claims-police-chief.jpg&hash=a43f20e0be3bb09577677d1ccd823086" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://files.stv.tv/imagebase/3/623x349/3139-mandatory-knife-sentences-ineffective-claims-police-chief.jpg)
Vice city: Glasgow's knife culture has seen it named 'most violent urban area' by the Peace Index (http://www.visionofhumanity.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/UK-Peace-Index-2013-IEP-Report.pdf).



The UK Peace Index report in full, which lists Glasgow as the
"most violent city in the country" (http://www.visionofhumanity.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/UK-Peace-Index-2013-IEP-Report.pdf)


Quote from:      STV News    
"Violent crime in Glasgow is less about gun crime than it is in some other cities. Knives, feet and fists prevail here," says Professor Mike Nellis.

An ex-social worker and expert in criminology at Strathclyde University, he was deliberating on a damning report (http://www.visionofhumanity.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/UK-Peace-Index-2013-IEP-Report.pdf) by the UK Peace Index that names Glasgow as Britain's most violent urban centre.

Just 24 hours after Glasgow City Marketing Bureau launched their campaign to rebrand Glasgow, the city was saddled with the title of 'Britain's most violent area' - another scar on the reputation of the city, scored next to its previous moniker of
'Murder Capital of Western Europe........'


Quote from:     STV News    


Glasgow has been ranked as the UK's most violent area in a new report. (http://www.visionofhumanity.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/UK-Peace-Index-2013-IEP-Report.pdf)

Problems with gangs and knife crime contributed to the rating in the UK Peace Index (http://www.visionofhumanity.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/UK-Peace-Index-2013-IEP-Report.pdf) produced by the US and Australia-based Institute for Economics and Peace (IEP).

The index has drawn together more than 10 years of data, looking at levels of violence across the country as well as the cost to the economy.

Areas were ranked according to the number of homicides and levels of violent and weapon crime, public disorder and numbers of police officers per 100,000 people.

The report describes Glasgow as "the least peaceful major urban centre in the UK", with London and Belfast in second and third place.

Scotland has the highest homicide rate of any of the four UK nations, as well as the highest violent crime rate, at more than 1500 per 100,000 people, the report (http://www.visionofhumanity.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/UK-Peace-Index-2013-IEP-Report.pdf) said........




(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fassets.diylol.com%2Fhfs%2Fa18%2F89d%2Fbef%2Fresized%2Fthats-hull-simba-you-must-never-go-there-meme-generator-what-s-that-dark-shadowy-place-that-s-glasgow-you-must-never-go-there-simba-aa7ec4.jpg&hash=376af30ccb2619bc6e254cc25b3331a7" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/a18/89d/bef/resized/thats-hull-simba-you-must-never-go-there-meme-generator-what-s-that-dark-shadowy-place-that-s-glasgow-you-must-never-go-there-simba-aa7ec4.jpg)

Want your throat slit, or a shiv shoved in your gut, Glasgow is the place to go says this report (http://www.visionofhumanity.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/UK-Peace-Index-2013-IEP-Report.pdf)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-01-23, 03:27:50
I see you are still using childish stuff in your threads like giant text and daft symbols. Just a pity jimbro wasn't your teacher then you wouldn't be giving your country a bad image and advert for head shrinking. Kind of funny stuff coming from a land of overcrowded jails and real gangs.Any bad areas we have are kindergartens unlike in the ex-colonies. Having a well organised police force that doesn't go around full of themselves shooting people willy-nilly is an advantage. You could learn from ours but what passes for city police over the water would cry without a gun to kill someone irritating.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2015-01-23, 20:12:17
I'm just gonna have to have a li'l chat with some of my fellow aliens before this sort of thing gets out of hand. Turning good, upstanding citizens into Scotsmen has to stop before the island is entirely over-run with Scotsmen.

Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-02-03, 01:22:11
Well now, I think I really must be intellectually fair to you mjsmsprt40. This is due to you accepting that those who have argued that aliens are here can now be feeling warm about your support. Always feeling it is the greatest place on Earth the aliens would try for the global rulers first. Boy have I had you wrong.  :blush:
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2015-02-13, 11:04:46
Then some Scottish, 19 Things Only Scottish People Say (http://www.buzzfeed.com/ionayeti/phrases-only-scottish-people-will-understand) (actually a few of those Scandinavians say as well)

Then again we got the Scots Wikipedia (http://sco.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page) for a greater body of work.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-02-14, 01:15:06
I have in my pile of books the New Testament in traditional Scots (which Gaelic is not). Brilliant and so interesting. Someone once experimented with doing a side off in working class Glaswegian.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2015-02-15, 10:20:44
The Bible is also available in lolcat (http://lolcatbible.com/index.php?title=Main_Page).
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2015-02-15, 11:37:18

The Bible is also available in lolcat (http://lolcatbible.com/index.php?title=Main_Page).

How cute, except that people of the North tend to pride themselves in that they don't read the Bible. In any language.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2015-02-15, 13:54:31
"The North"? Anyway, in English I would recommend The New JPS Translation (http://www.amazon.com/The-Jewish-Bible-Translation-Traditional/dp/0827603665). In Dutch I'd stick with the seminal translation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statenvertaling). Skip the awful New Testament, except maybe Mark. It's not worth it.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2015-02-16, 06:33:10

"The North"?

According to surveys, as best as they can be conducted, some East European countries, such as Estonia and Czech Republic, count among the most atheist in the world. The funny thing I have noticed is that Finns and Swedes I have met in real tend to assume themselves being bravely god-defying, even though compared to Estonia religion is deeply pervasive in the society there.

So, the generalisation does not apply when properly investigated, but it applies in terms of people's self-perception.


Anyway, in English I would recommend The New JPS Translation (http://www.amazon.com/The-Jewish-Bible-Translation-Traditional/dp/0827603665). In Dutch I'd stick with the seminal translation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statenvertaling). Skip the awful New Testament, except maybe Mark. It's not worth it.

As to the best Bible translation, the original is probably the best. Some among the academic interlinear editions must be good.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2015-02-16, 07:23:20
I have moved to Södertälje (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%B6dert%C3%A4lje), the most Christian (and Arab) city in Sweden, where the most Syrian Orthodox and Assyrians have sought refugee from the wars in Iraq and recently Syria. This once small town was famous for taking in more Iraqi refugees than the US and Canada combined during the first Iraqi war, and more recently ISIL and other islamists are a constant source of recruitment. The nearest church is about a hundred meters away. It is the most Christian city I've ever lived in.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2015-02-16, 08:54:57
In what sense is Södertälje the most Christian?

1. With churches (and mosques) prominently featuring in the cityscape?
2. People actually populating the churches and mosques?
3. Or people openly admitting it's a good thing to attend to church and mosque services and other religious events?

All these are different things. I know #1 and #2 are common in Sweden, immeasurably more common than in Estonia. However, concerning #3, according to my anecdotal experience, Swedes tend to deny the value of church and religion in their lives, which would make their attitude somewhat closer to the people in the Baltic countries, despite the fact that Swedes still actually go to church anyway.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-02-16, 09:14:19
It is the most Christian city I've ever lived in

Not even think about it my dear jax.
This once small town was famous for taking in more Iraqi refugees than the US and Canada combined during the first Iraqi war,

Yes, refugees are not fool. Try to put them in a southern economically poorer country and you'll see the problems they cause until moved to Swede....
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2015-02-16, 11:58:26
Immigrants to Scandinavia are significantly more religious than the natives, Muslims from Africa and South and West Asia, Eastern Orthodox Christians from West Asia, Western Orthodox from the Balkans and former Soviet Union (though that is a more mixed bunch), Roman Catholics from Poland and South Europe, and partly rest of the world. Whether they stay that way over time remains to be seen. It looks like not.

Sweden and Norway used to be very religious a century ago, the lay movements that were stronger in Norway used to be particularly fervent. Anything that could bring joy on Earth was sinful, people were supposed to suffer and die in preparation of a life somewhat more cheerful thereafter. Quite similar to Scottish Christianity.

The official churches were more Catholic in demeanour, though they had left that denomination behind (until the Catholic mass pilgrimage north started a decade or so ago), they were staid supporters of established society, whatever that society was. As Sweden grew more humanistic, social democratic, secular and into engineering, so did the churches.

I wouldn't say that Södertälje is that outwardly Christian (which as mentioned in this part of the country would be Syrian Orthodox, Assyrian, and also Gnostic), nor that there are that many churches, if they had been Protestant there would've been a prayer house for every second inhabitant, each in a low-scale turf war with the others. Also I think many in those flocks are fairly wayward, religion may be as much a marker of community as of faith. All that said there are a few subtle indicators that there is a religious life. You can hear people talk in buses about religion instead of IT (mind you, they talk about IT too, but not as incessantly). church tax scandals, that kind of things.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-02-16, 15:05:10
All that said there are a few subtle indicators that there is a religious life. You can hear people talk in buses about religion [...]

Better one to get a taxi. It must be like that Swedish cook from the Muppet show.
You chose really strange places to live indeed.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2015-02-16, 15:23:41

Immigrants to Scandinavia are significantly more religious than the natives, ...

Can you say "natives" in Sweden? :o What's the word in Swedish? Sannsvenskarna?
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2015-02-16, 15:25:25
I wouldn't be surprised if there were a cognate for inheems, although its meaning might be subtly different.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Macallan on 2015-02-17, 07:09:59

I wouldn't be surprised if there were a cognate for inheems, although its meaning might be subtly different.

In german that might have unintended side effects :right:
( Einheimische vs. Eingeborene ) :left:
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2015-02-17, 09:04:24
Words like 'natives' and 'tribes' (and in Norwegian/Swedish 'village') have rarely been used on Europeans, seen as condescending and generally fallen off the language, in Norwegian/Swedish as well as English. Incidentally 'native' is 'innfødt' in Norwegian and Danish, 'infödd/inföding' in Swedish. Yes, it means in-born (as opposed to in-bred).

There are some subtle (and not-so-subtle) differences between Norway and Sweden. Swedish has 'inhemsk' (in-home-ish). I guess that is the distinction in the two German words as well, based on the roots, but I wouldn't bet on it as false friends lurk. Since Sweden has largely lost the use of 'in-born' (native) clumsy phrases like "domestically born" are used instead. Me, as an immigrant, feel free to create my own language. If that unsettles the natives, so much the better. 

This topic has caused some fractious incidents between Sweden and Norway, which together with Denmark have mostly mutually intelligible languages.  Norway after a while half-settled for "ethnic Norwegian" as a term for somebody without recent immigrant background, as a backformation from sporadic use of "ethnic <nationality>" to describe somebody with an immigrant background, hyphenation-nationalities are less popular. This opposed to "Swede" or "Norwegian", which is simply somebody with a Swedish/Norwegian passport, at most born in Sweden/Norway and having citizenship. "Ethnic Norwegian" is a bit of a mongrel, and in Sweden considered racist. (To which there is a point, racists in the 1990s discovered that they could more easily come under the radar of they said "ethnic ..." rather than "... race".)

For immigrant/emigrant there is "innvandrer/utvandrer" or "invandrare/utvandrare", in-wanderer/out-wanderer. Personally I prefer "innflytter", in-mover, newcomer to a house, town, region, independent of whatever borders and boundaries may have been crossed on the way. "Flytte", to move, is supposedly "Flittin'" in Scots.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Sanguinemoon on 2015-02-17, 09:27:30
( Einheimische vs. Eingeborene )

Reminds me. I haven't busted Howie's balls about who he considers "indigenous British" (the Picts, Celts?) in a while :left:
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-02-17, 11:18:21
Usual mouth off ignorance of course and being an ex-colonist with a wee bit of knowledge kind of thick to converse with maybe a bit pointless. Usual would-be liberal open mind stuff about the indogenous. Consireing that on this island the general tradition running well into an awful lot of centuries before AD only illustrates his mouthy ignorance. Keep it up sonny and when you grow up you will lokk back at yourself and be squeamish. You know a bit like 60's flower people nutters now living corporate and cumfy lives.....
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2015-02-17, 14:09:12

Words like 'natives' and 'tribes' (and in Norwegian/Swedish 'village') have rarely been used on Europeans, ....

So you can't imagine that tourists from some other continent could come to Europe, walk around with eyes wide open, and say to each other in amazement, "Look at those aborigines!"?

But yeah, ethnic stuff can be complicated.

Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2015-02-23, 11:51:30
Here's a trailer for a new Norwegian television program. What happens when you stick Norwegian youths in a sweatshop?

http://www.aftenposten.no/webtv/serier-og-programmer/sweatshopenglish/TRAILER-SWEATSHOP---I-cant-take-any-more-7800835.html?paging=&section=webtv_serierogprogrammer_sweatshop_sweatshopenglish
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2015-02-23, 12:35:03
It is well worth seeing, though frankly I found the three Norwegian youths more alien than the Cambodian workers. Thus the first episode, basically all about the three, was most annoying and the latter episodes became gradually better. Short clips, the five episodes go by quickly.

The Norwegians are called "rosabloggere", "pink bloggers", writing (often quite profitably) about fashion, beauty and everything vapid. It's not a term of endearment. Here's one of the blogs (http://annijor.blogg.no/).
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Macallan on 2015-02-24, 02:45:17

There are some subtle (and not-so-subtle) differences between Norway and Sweden. Swedish has 'inhemsk' (in-home-ish). I guess that is the distinction in the two German words as well, based on the roots, but I wouldn't bet on it as false friends lurk.

It works exactly as you describe in german as well.


Since Sweden has largely lost the use of 'in-born' (native) clumsy phrases like "domestically born" are used instead.

It's similar in german - 'Eingeborene' is usually seen as an oldfashioned, outdated and vaguely racist term and was replaced by 'Ureinwohner' - more or less 'original inhabitants'.


Me, as an immigrant, feel free to create my own language. If that unsettles the natives, so much the better.

We might as well rename the forum :right:
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2015-02-24, 06:10:33
Swedish (and rarely Norwegian) has urinvånare (urinnvåner, which has a Swedish feel to it, Norwegian would be urinnbygger, which is still rare), though it too has fallen out of fashion for "first people, few in numbers, need special protection" or indigenous. By Wikipedia I see the preferred term in German is indigene Völker. That can hardly be indigenous. Danish use aboriginer, while Dutch the more inheems inheemse bevolking. In Swedish it is ursprungsfolk, or in Norwegian simply urfolk. Icelandic frumbyggjar, frum- I had to look up, it means ur-.

These words should be straightforwardly understood in German, and less straightforwardly in English. "vån" is simply Swedish translation/transcription of Wohn. It is used a lot in constructions about construction and living, but only as pre/suf/infix.

Norwegian uses bygg(e(r)), building (build (builds/builder)) instead, as does Icelandic. Bo would be the equivalent of Wohn, by* a town or a city, which of course in Swedish as in German is stad (or simply -sta(n)) or Stadt. Norwegian sted and English stead instead means small settlement (in Norwegian it primarily means place, as it once did in English, and in Dutch stede I see). By comparison in Swedish it is by*  that means small settlement.

These days, just like with English village, -by is mostly used in names developers come up with to make their huge developments sound cozy. Inevitably the new primary meaning of the word village will be "huge urban development that the developer thought was cozy".

* Pronounced like the word bee but using rounded lips, you perverted English speakers you!
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2015-02-24, 07:42:45

Swedish (and rarely Norwegian) has urinvånare (urinnvåner, which has a Swedish feel to it, Norwegian would be urinnbygger, which is still rare), though it too has fallen out of fashion for "first people, few in numbers, need special protection" or indigenous. By Wikipedia I see the preferred term in German is indigene Völker. That can hardly be indigenous. Danish use aboriginer, while Dutch the more inheems inheemse bevolking. In Swedish it is ursprungsfolk, or in Norwegian simply urfolk. Icelandic frumbyggjar, frum- I had to look up, it means ur-.

Doesn't ursprungsfolk tend to mean the Saami people instead? :left:
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2015-02-24, 09:33:04
Norwegian uses bygg(e(r)), building (build (builds/builder)) instead, as does Icelandic. Bo would be the equivalent of Wohn, by* a town or a city, which of course in Swedish as in German is stad (or simply -sta(n)) or Stadt. Norwegian sted and English stead instead means small settlement (in Norwegian it primarily means place, as it once did in English, and in Dutch stede I see). By comparison in Swedish it is by*  that means small settlement.

The Dutch words stad and stede are (originally) different inflections of the same word.* Also note that to me the form stede sounds positively archaic, while the reduced form stee sounds merely old-fashioned. This is part of the widespread apocope of the de at the end of such words pretty much since Early Modern Dutch. Cf. sledeslee (sleigh), medemee (with), etc.

* Actually they still are. One city is a stad, two cities are twee steden. But the word stee (place, farm) has split off and the plural is steeën. In older texts the word stad is also often used to mean a more generic place.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2015-02-24, 10:30:15


Me, as an immigrant, feel free to create my own language. If that unsettles the natives, so much the better.

We might as well rename the forum :right:


To what? dndsettlers.eu? Or dndunsettlers.eu?
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2015-02-24, 10:44:39
Die 'n Die Siedler (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_Siedler)?
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2015-02-24, 11:41:45

Doesn't ursprungsfolk tend to mean the Saami people instead? :left:
Yes, it was the transition from Eingeborene to Ureinwohner. The latter in Swedish straightforward urinvånare, of which Saami are a prime example.


The Dutch words stad and stede are (originally) different inflections of the same word.* Also note that to me the form stede sounds positively archaic, while the reduced form stee sounds merely old-fashioned. This is part of the widespread apocope of the de at the end of such words pretty much since Early Modern Dutch. Cf. sledeslee (sleigh), medemee (with), etc.

* Actually they still are. One city is a stad, two cities are twee steden. But the word stee (place, farm) has split off and the plural is steeën. In older texts the word stad is also often used to mean a more generic place.
How Danish of you. The Danes have effectively clipped off everything but the first syllable in a sentence.

Farm, farmyard doubling as town, city can also be found in the Norse word garðr. Current gard, gård only means farm, English yard means yard, while Russian gorod and -grad means city. When the Vikings came to Constantinople, the greatest and richest city in all of Europe, they called it Miklagard, big town or even big farm. The word mikill, big, has a remnant in Swedish mycket, and English much, but is otherwise retained in Icelandic.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2015-02-24, 12:41:33
Farm, farmyard doubling as town, city can also be found in the Norse word garðr. Current gard, gård only means farm, English yard means yard, while Russian gorod and -grad means city.

A gaarde in Dutch means something very similar to yard: an enclosed piece of ground planted with flowers, trees or other crops. However, it's really only still used in compounds, like boomgaarde (tree garden) and diergaarde (animal garden, i.e. zoo[ological garden]). The modern word for gaarde is tuin, which is etymologically the same word as town. Originally that meant the same thing in English, Dutch and German, namely a fenced-off place (like a courtyard). In Dutch the meaning shifted to that which is enclosed, in German the meaning shifted to that which encloses, and in English it expanded in scope before proceeding along the same lines as Dutch.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Macallan on 2015-02-24, 18:52:05

Norwegian uses bygg(e(r)), building (build (builds/builder)) instead, as does Icelandic. Bo would be the equivalent of Wohn, by* a town or a city, which of course in Swedish as in German is stad (or simply -sta(n)) or Stadt. Norwegian sted and English stead instead means small settlement (in Norwegian it primarily means place, as it once did in English, and in Dutch stede I see). By comparison in Swedish it is by*  that means small settlement.

Might be a false friend. In german there is:
Stadt - town, city
Staette - place
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2015-02-24, 19:42:24
Most of these words supposedly go way back, to Proto-Germanic or even Proto-Indo-European.

So Proto-Germanic *stadiz (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Proto-Germanic/stadiz) which more speculatively is derived from Proto-Indo-European *stéh₂tis (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Proto-Indo-European/steh%E2%82%82-) (the * in front of stadiz and stéh₂tis indicates that these words are linguistic guesswork).
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-02-24, 22:01:52
Vikings debating it's the must boring thing in earth...
:lol:
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2015-02-24, 22:09:57
Might be a false friend. In german there is:
Stadt - town, city
Staette - place

Probably also goes back to Proto-Germanic inflections and/or umlaut (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umlaut_(linguistics)).

So Proto-Germanic *stadiz (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Proto-Germanic/stadiz) which more speculatively is derived from Proto-Indo-European *stéh₂tis (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Proto-Indo-European/steh%E2%82%82-) (the * in front of stadiz and stéh₂tis indicates that these words are linguistic guesswork).

Whoa, and there I thought you could only get this stuff handily summarized from paper. (Then again, it's Wiktionary...)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Macallan on 2015-02-25, 10:37:45

Vikings debating it's the must boring thing in earth...
:lol:

I thought you guys would rather us northern barbarians to discuss armchair linguistics instead of - say - raiding Portugal :right:
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2015-02-25, 11:05:53
Whoa, and there I thought you could only get this stuff handily summarized from paper. (Then again, it's Wiktionary...)


In some city in the world I have misplaced my Proto-Indo-European dictionary, and it is massive. I haven't compared the Wiktionary version, but I did sanity check it against online etymology dictionaries, and it is plausible. E.g. Etymonline  said:
Quote
stead (n.)
Old English stede "place, position; standing, firmness, stability, fixity," from Proto-Germanic *stadiz (cognates: Old Saxon stedi, Old Norse staðr "place, spot; stop, pause; town," Swedish stad, Dutch stede "place," Old High German stat, German Stadt "town," Gothic staþs "place"), from PIE *steti-, suffixed form of root *sta- "to stand" (see stet). Related to stand.


That said, I am uncomfortable with a body of work that can neither be verified nor falsified, and which is completely based on the work of a few people based on the reverse application of linguistic "laws", and from that base build not just a vocabulary, but a fairly explicit grammar and just about everything a language has, except a corpus.

Even so, I don't think it is an impossible project, it could get a gradually higher precision and probability of being correct, just that as it can't be verified, *those *pesky *word *asterixes *won't *go *away.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-02-25, 22:13:20
raiding Portugal

I could tell you how so simply we stopped barbarian Viking raids, had I the patience for that. But I don't, maybe other time.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Macallan on 2015-02-26, 14:03:50

raiding Portugal

I could tell you how so simply we stopped barbarian Viking raids, had I the patience for that. But I don't, maybe other time.

:wine: :cheers:
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-02-26, 14:06:07
You pulled their passports.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2015-02-26, 16:26:22
"We" were Moors at the time of the Vikings.

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F1%2F1f%2FEurope_843ad_viking_incursions_map.png%2F1024px-Europe_843ad_viking_incursions_map.png&hash=4b6d9f389a2976d947706dc0c384d89d" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1f/Europe_843ad_viking_incursions_map.png/1024px-Europe_843ad_viking_incursions_map.png)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-02-26, 22:16:04
"We" were Moors at the time of the Vikings.

No, we weren't. Another fallacious map.

There are four kind of lies, lies, damned lies, statistics...and jax's maps.  :lol:
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-02-28, 04:05:59
There are three kinds of people: Those who recognize contradictions and those who don't... You, sir, inhabit the third class -- those who believe what they believe because they believe it, regardless.

While Portugal may have escaped Moorish suzerainty, it didn't escape it's influence: Either you know your own history or you don't!

Why such anti-historical vehemence?
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-02-28, 10:10:46
You, sir, inhabit the third class -- those who believe what they believe because they believe it, regardless.

That's not third class, it's first class, luxury... :)
While Portugal may have escaped Moorish suzerainty, it didn't escape it's influence: Either you know your own history or you don't!

Why such anti-historical vehemence? (https://thedndsanctuary.eu/index.php?action=reporttm;topic=481.116;msg=35983)

About Portugal and Vikings: I'm immensely proud about our Moor's heritage. See? no Vikings at all...

Vikings are not even of secondary importance in building Europe. They are a simple curiosity, with no impact at all in culture, war, economics, politics or anything else you may want to consider. Tales about their voyages and explorations are simple anecdotes that may be a part of Saxon's imagination but with no correspondence with reality.
They were seen as small thieves that attacked defenseless small villages up into the rivers due to their rudimentary boats that could float in shallow waters.

You may like to see a movie with an Andalusian Moor that goes captive to the Viking's land (I don't remember the title). It shows well the difference of level between both.

Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2015-02-28, 13:06:58


About Portugal and Vikings: I'm immensely proud about our Moor's heritage. See? no Vikings at all...

Vikings are not even of secondary importance in building Europe. They are a simple curiosity, with no impact at all in culture, war, economics, politics or anything else you may want to consider. Tales about their voyages and explorations are simple anecdotes that may be a part of Saxon's imagination but with no correspondence with reality.

They were seen as small thieves that attacked defenseless small villages up into the rivers due to their rudimentary boats that could float in shallow waters.

You may like to see a movie with an Andalusian Moor that goes captive to the Viking's land (I don't remember the title). It shows well the difference of level between both.


13th Warrior, based on a novel by the Saxon author Michael Chrichton, in turn a re-telling of the Saxon epos Beowulf, with a mix-in of Ahmad ibn Fadlan (Antonio Banderas).

Saxons may not have ventured much down to Portugal until their descendants in recent times, but other Germanic tribes did, and conquered and kept the Iberian peninsula for centuries until they handed it over to the Moors.

Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-02-28, 15:09:17
Saxons may not have ventured much down to Portugal until their descendants in recent times, but other Germanic tribes did, and conquered and kept the Iberian peninsula for centuries until they handed it over to the Moors.

Almost correct. Other Germanic tribes did in fact but they resisted always to the Moors refuging themselves at the Northern areas of the Peninsula that Moors could never conquest. They were Christian Kingdoms therefore the "Re-Conquest" later launched by the Papacy.
That applies predominantly to the area that today is known as Spain.

As for Portugal, it's different. We never had Visigoths here, the population being predominantly from Iberian tribes such as Turdules and Lusitans. With the fall of the roman empire arrives a single germanic tribe, the Swebes, that established a prosperous kingdom and eventually merged with the Lusitan and Iberian elites and resulted in the political entity, prior to Portugal as an independent country, known as the Portucalensis County that soon started fighting North against the Christian Kingdom of Leon and to south against the Moors and defeated both.

We had a few Viking incursions, basically annoying and irritating since we were always entertained fighting simultaneously two immensely bigger enemies. The question was simply solved by marrying a Portuguese Princess with the King of the Vikings, Otão. And up to Denmark she went, where she turned a much beloved Queen by the Vikings and famous as mother of three of their Kings.

Now you all can say that you are the biggest alive specialist in your countries about Iberian History. :)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2015-03-04, 10:27:45
Dutch prisoners sue government over deal for Norwegian convicts to take their cells (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/03/dutch-prisoners-sue-government-over-deal-for-norweigan-convicts-to-take-their-cells)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2015-03-04, 11:02:29
You want to see luxury cells, take a look at Indonesia (http://www.thehindu.com/news/international/indonesian-rage-over-luxury-jail-cells-for-wealthy/article80082.ece). :P
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-03-04, 21:33:18
Take a look at an Afghanistan cell.
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.afghanistan-today.org%2Fmedia%2Fphotos%2FGhaznijail1.JPG&hash=f043aa5f67b2719e773b7ccf6d19534b" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.afghanistan-today.org/media/photos/Ghaznijail1.JPG)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2015-03-04, 22:11:30
One must envy how cozy it is in Afghan prison. Here's Butyrka prison in Moscow for comparison.
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.dailymail.co.uk%2Fi%2Fpix%2F2012%2F11%2F03%2Farticle-2227309-014E83C700000578-743_634x420.jpg&hash=b772c1bfd23eb6b65a9ad80f6d445b2d" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/11/03/article-2227309-014E83C700000578-743_634x420.jpg)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-03-05, 02:38:16
Missed out the torture camp in a corner of Cuba as well.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2015-03-05, 09:14:46
Not even the Danes can understand Danish (http://www.thelocal.dk/20150304/not-even-the-danes-can-understand-danish)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2015-03-05, 09:17:47
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-03-05, 21:34:40
That's an unfair documentary, compared with an American chief of prison, everybody in the world appears to be a genius, even degenerated Vikings.

"Norden" are exaggerating. The reason they have lower criminality than other countries is not because the way they treat prisoners. It's because that even the criminals there are not real criminals, the same way prisons are not real prisons.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2015-03-06, 10:02:35
I kind of agree with that. I think this Finnish series "The Norden" (mixing English particle with a Scandinavian word, literally "The The North"; Portugal would be part of "The South"; The East and West would be as in English) comes off as a bit too self-congratulatory.

There is a value to seeing a phenomena from the eyes of an outsider, but often the implication is that "our way is the better way". When it comes to incarceration the US is the odd one out (though the Russian and Afghan prisons are more typical of prisons world-wide). There are other programs that might be better:

2/6 Work (http://arenan.yle.fi/tv/2199728) (not on Youtube; viewed by a Japanese)

3/6 Religion (viewed by an American):


4/6 Gender (viewed by a Russian):


5/6 Family (http://arenan.yle.fi/tv/2199726) (not on Youtube; viewed by an Italian)

6/6 Police (viewed by an American)


The series is a mixed bag, but there are some good observations in between. All in all it can be worth watching, or at least skimming.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-03-07, 00:11:57
I would like to keep this civilized discussion but I don't have the patience to watching videos. More of the same I suppose.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2015-03-09, 17:12:15
Certainly, and again I can kind of agree with you. Video is a impolite medium that expects you to follow its rules and speed unlike text, which is there for the reading at your convenience.

A change of theme then. What about Stockholm Design Week/Furniture&Light (http://www.dezeen.com/events/2015/stockholm-2015/)?
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2015-03-09, 18:31:53

A change of theme then. What about Stockholm Design Week/Furniture&Light (http://www.dezeen.com/events/2015/stockholm-2015/)?

We should have a yawn smiley here. Ah, this one comes close
:faint:
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-03-09, 23:21:42


A change of theme then. What about Stockholm Design Week/Furniture&Light (http://www.dezeen.com/events/2015/stockholm-2015/)?

We should have a yawn smiley here. Ah, this one comes close
:faint:

We are turning too much... how do you say it? people suffering from spleen...  :lol:
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2015-03-10, 09:39:55
Different strokes. In my view few things excite more than furniture.

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.dezeen.com%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F02%2FAndreas-Engesvik-for-Fogia-Stockholm-2015_dezeen_468_6.jpg&hash=6b9615f6a7524aacb7353367adb7f5b7" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://static.dezeen.com/uploads/2015/02/Andreas-Engesvik-for-Fogia-Stockholm-2015_dezeen_468_6.jpg)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2015-03-12, 12:32:23
Saudi-Swedish spat (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/11/clash-sweden-saudi-arabia-escalates-ambassador-withdrawn-human-rights)

Quote from: The Guardian
A clash between Sweden's progressive foreign policy and the harsh realities of the Middle East has escalated with Saudi Arabia's withdrawal of its ambassador after Stockholm tore up an arms trade agreement between the two countries.

Accusing Sweden's foreign minister of "flagrant interference" in its internal affairs, the Saudi foreign ministry said it was recalling Ibrahim bin Saad al-Ibrahim in protest over Sweden's criticism of its human rights record, which it said was "harmful to the kingdom".

Comments by Margot Wallström, the foreign minister, represented a "flagrant interference in internal affairs, which is not accepted in international conventions," it added, according to an official statement carried by state news agency SPA.

Stockholm was apparently bounced into terminating its decade-long weapons memorandum with the Saudis after they blocked Wallström from making a speech on human rights to Arab leaders.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2015-03-19, 12:36:41
The Pirate Party is now measured as the biggest political party in Iceland (http://www.visir.is/the-pirate-party-is-now-measured-as-the-biggest-party-in-iceland/article/2015150318848)

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.visir.is%2Fapps%2Fpbcsi.dll%2Fstoryimage%2FXZ%2F20150319%2FFRETTIR07%2F150318848%2FAR%2F0%2Fjhggjk.jpg%3FNoBorder&hash=16c2a6c5a0c16c591a8edb1d8224d087" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://img.visir.is/apps/pbcsi.dll/storyimage/XZ/20150319/FRETTIR07/150318848/AR/0/jhggjk.jpg?NoBorder)

Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-03-19, 13:13:11
 :cheers:
As Iceland goes, so goes the western world!
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fsmileyfaze.tk%2Fslides%2Fdiablo.gif&hash=d613ecb638e10b0a6a18af59d8cbb8e7" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://smileyfaze.tk/slides/diablo.gif)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-03-20, 21:39:49
The members of Parliament for the Pirate Party i Iceland. Jón Þór Ólafsson, Helgi Hrafn Gunnarsson and Birgitta Jónsdóttir.

Birgitta is the bearded one??
Never mind, they all must play Eve Online. Sweet targets for an Eve pirate like me.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2015-03-21, 11:40:34
The caption writer should walk the plank. No, Birgitta (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birgitta_J%C3%B3nsd%C3%B3ttir) is (among other things) the more sensible face of Wikileaks. Wikileaks would have benefited from more of her and less of Julian Assange.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2015-03-21, 13:23:48
Spot the odd country out.

Norway is not in the EU, and thus not in this survey, but an independent one has been made for Norway and Sweden, and while slightly less enthusiastic than the Swedes, the Norwegians were much the same.

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FTc6zAre.png&hash=4cd7f3486e2f10b4dfa9969e495d06b8" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/Tc6zAre.png)

Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2015-03-21, 13:40:08
Norway is not in the EU, and thus not in this survey, but an independent one has been made for Norway and Sweden, and while slightly less enthusiastic than the Swedes, the Norwegians were much the same.

A typical case of needing to know the questions to make any sense of it at all. Such negativity toward immigration from, say, Australia would be surprising. Presumably the "border" states are negative toward immigrants from respectively North Africa, the Middle East, and Russia. I do wonder what's up in Czechia. Russians too?
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: krake on 2015-03-21, 14:53:03
According to a recent survey from February 16, 2015,  81% of young Ukrainians at age between 18-28 would leave their country.
13% told that it's hard to give an answer for such a question.
Most of them (62%) would leave for Western Europe, 5% named Russia and 4% named China.
Interesting fact is that Australia (10%) gets a higher popularity rating than the USA (8%).

With a population of 44,291,413 the Ukraine comes second among Eastern European countries.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-03-22, 02:45:17
Not surprised so many young Ukrainians sympathise with leaving as their own leaders couldn't run a charity shop.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2015-03-28, 10:21:21
Further fumes from the Saudi-Swedish feminist fracas (http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9481542/swedens-feminist-foreign-minister-has-dared-to-tell-the-truth-about-saudi-arabia-what-happens-now-concerns-us-all/)

Quote from: The Spectator
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.spectator.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F03%2F104482277.jpg&hash=bfd7280138d6afdc5bcfca4f264e26e3" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://cdn.spectator.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/104482277.jpg)

A few weeks ago Margot Wallström, the Swedish foreign minister, denounced the subjugation of women in Saudi Arabia. As the theocratic kingdom prevents women from travelling, conducting official business or marrying without the permission of male guardians, and as girls can be forced into child marriages where they are effectively raped by old men, she was telling no more than the truth. Wallström went on to condemn the Saudi courts for ordering that Raif Badawi receive ten years in prison and 1,000 lashes for setting up a website that championed secularism and free speech. These were 'mediaeval methods', she said, and a 'cruel attempt to silence modern forms of expression'. And once again, who can argue with that?

The backlash followed the pattern set by Rushdie, the Danish cartoons and Hebdo. Saudi Arabia withdrew its ambassador and stopped issuing visas to Swedish businessmen. The United Arab Emirates joined it. The Organisation of Islamic Co-operation, which represents 56 Muslim-majority states, accused Sweden of failing to respect the world's 'rich and varied ethical standards' -- standards so rich and varied, apparently, they include the flogging of bloggers and encouragement of paedophiles. Meanwhile, the Gulf Co-operation Council condemned her 'unaccept-able interference in the internal affairs of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia', and I wouldn't bet against anti-Swedish riots following soon.

Yet there is no 'Wallström affair'. Outside Sweden, the western media has barely covered the story, and Sweden's EU allies have shown no inclination whatsoever to support her. A small Scandinavian nation faces sanctions, accusations of Islamophobia and maybe worse to come, and everyone stays silent. As so often, the scandal is that there isn't a scandal.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-03-29, 04:10:37
Don'y worry jax the land of the free and home of the brave will deal with Saudi Arabia contradicting ex-colonial principles.........
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2015-03-29, 10:30:32
Quote
Saudi Arabia withdrew its ambassador and stopped issuing visas to Swedish businessmen.

Oh, how sorely he will be missed. *pinks away a microscopic tear*
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-03-29, 10:40:00
These were 'mediaeval methods', she said, and a 'cruel attempt to silence modern forms of expression'.

Says the post modernist Swedish woman... no place in my harem.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-03-29, 17:04:23
Will she do?

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi8.cdnds.net%2F14%2F24%2F450x450%2Flizzie-velasquez.jpg&hash=67b17e6492583de5f18dfdfbb8bbd43b" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i8.cdnds.net/14/24/450x450/lizzie-velasquez.jpg)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ensbb3 on 2015-03-29, 17:42:56
Dear god man!
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-03-30, 00:59:48
Probably French.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2015-03-30, 06:51:20
No, a Texan.
Lizzie Velasquez: 'Online bullies called me the world's ugliest woman' (http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-ouch-30948179) (BBC)

Title: Re: What's migrating in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2015-03-30, 12:21:40
A typical case of needing to know the questions to make any sense of it at all. Such negativity toward immigration from, say, Australia would be surprising. Presumably the "border" states are negative toward immigrants from respectively North Africa, the Middle East, and Russia. I do wonder what's up in Czechia. Russians too?


The map is based on the survey mentioned here: Sweden by far EU's most pro-immigrant nation (http://Sweden by far EU's most pro-immigrant nation)

Quote from: The Local
No fewer than 72 percent of Swedes said they were either fairly positive or very positive towards immigration from countries outside the European Union, with an even greater 82 percent welcoming immigrants from other EU countries. 

No other country came anywhere close, with only 48 percent of the citizens of the next most open countries, Croatia and Spain, saying they felt positive to immigrants from outside the EU.

On average, a solid majority of 57 percent of European citizens described themselves as either fairly or very negative to immigration from outside the EU, with just 35 percent in favour.


In principle 28,000 people across the EU were asked the same questions, but that would have to be in their local languages, and with outliers like in this case translation issues should be suspect. Interestingly, while the prose matches the map, the chart does not (update/correction?). The chart makes Sweden less of an outlier, and the EU 28 more positive to immigration. 

Sweden's migration policy seems more refugee/demand driven than Norway's, or most other European countries. When there is a major war or conflict (like in Yugoslavia or now in Syria-Iraq) the numbers spike. The largest refugee group lately has been Syrians, Iraqi, Iranians, Afghans, Eritreans. The most recent reports have a large fall in Syrians, but a rapid rise in Ukrainians (though Ukrainians are still not one of the major groups). 

Asylum seekers per million Q3 2014 (http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/4168041/6404399/KS-QA-14-015-EN-N.pdf/d46331bd-29aa-4fe7-9bb6-fc0a37bce9e1):

Sweden: 2925
Denmark: 1260
Malta: 970
Switzerland: 955
Austria: 915
Germany: 695 (biggest recipient by total numbers, Sweden #2, Italy #3)
EU-28 average: 350
UK: 140
Czech Republic: 35

There seems to be a positive correlation between attitudes to immigration and number of asylum seekers.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2015-03-30, 13:03:16
I suppose these attitudes somehow make it back to prospective asylum seekers.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-03-30, 21:13:02
Those numbers don't allow to conclude anything at all. What are "asylum seekers"? refugees? non documented migrants?
For some countries people goes because those are rich countries, to others because they're the nearest option available and for even other countries people go and doesn't appear in the statistics.

Search for "Living in the Limbo", published by JRS International, an NGO from the Jesuits, the best study I know about refugees in Europe, not the EU mambo jambo statistics.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2015-05-22, 11:32:54
The New Cold War Is Getting Serious: US To Send B-52s To Sweden (http://www.ibtimes.com/new-cold-war-getting-serious-us-send-b-52s-sweden-1934172)

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fs1.ibtimes.com%2Fsites%2Fwww.ibtimes.com%2Ffiles%2Fstyles%2Fv2_article_large%2Fpublic%2F2015%2F05%2F22%2Fb-52stratofortress2012.jpg&hash=99f7d2802ba1251a834ab93b9f21e0c6" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://s1.ibtimes.com/sites/www.ibtimes.com/files/styles/v2_article_large/public/2015/05/22/b-52stratofortress2012.jpg)

Nice headline, anyway.

Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-05-23, 02:34:01
The B-52 was unveiled in 1952 (...so was I...!) and still performs its useful functions. :)

I remember them at Edwards AFB when I was there (...mumble-ty years ago.) Awesome war machines. And LOUD!
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-05-23, 04:46:33
Sending planes to Sweden is just another childish ploy but the world's No 1 imperial clowns. It has been sending planes around it's Cold War opposition for damn years.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-05-24, 06:52:49
And Howie has been blathering --long before the Internet!-- far longer.

The B-52 is a venerable war machine. The Howie is a venal and ignoble peace machine!
He'll surrender to anyone who asks! He might as well be French! :)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-05-24, 23:51:32
Well dear teaser you had half a million in Vietnam against all those amateurs and you looked and acted just like those Frenchies! You also trained the Iraqi Army and vwalla - the tradiion is still there.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-05-25, 04:09:39
you had half a million in Vietnam against all those amateurs and you looked and acted just like those Frenchies
First, the French didn't do so badly; certainly not militarily. At the time, they were the most experienced and most effective counter-insurgency forces the world had ever known.
Second, "those amateurs" were an entire generation and more trained by the Soviets and the ChiComs -- who also supplied them with whatever means they required to wage their war.
Third, we won the actual war. Our "democratic" politicians surrendered, and consigned a million or more Vietnamese to death... To appease the likes of you! (You're damned right I'm resentful.)
That, sir, is one of my country's most reprehensible acts.

You won't mind, if I regret it? :(
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2015-05-25, 05:25:53

Third, we won the actual war. Our "democratic" politicians surrendered, and consigned a million or more Vietnamese to death... To appease the likes of you! (You're damned right I'm resentful.)
That, sir, is one of my country's most reprehensible acts.

Just to make sure I'm reading this right. You're not saying the war was reprehensible, but rather that the surrender was. Right?
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-05-25, 17:28:32
Good question let's see the answer. as the offering wasn't clear enough. If Oakdale means the involvement was flawed that is fair enough but the way it finished is definitely something else!

In the early days of the fiasco Cardinal Spellman the red socks leader in NY (?) called US troops Christian soldiers and the then dictatorship in Saigon was interestingly enough heavily weighted to members of that denomination even though South Vietnam was overwhelming not of that faith. On one report I watched a US gunboat sailing in the Mekong Delta area passing a small village blasted it with gunfire as it was a "suspected" rebel place. No landing, nothing just suspected and that was enough.  In later years when the regime changed in the South an attempt was made by allies to try and ensure peace in many areas by arming locals and doing local work in self-help, etc. The South Koreans and Australians were excellent at it but somehow the US trailed.

There were successes such as at the Tet offensive which the US did well in and although the ARVN was a mixed bunch there were excellent units there as well. One thing I also remember is an attitude from some military people that they were trying to fight a "normal war" with an opposition that was something else! The US could not adapt and moans about politicians used as an excuse. For me South Vietnam should never have been lost but the US military were in general again not up to dealing with the Viet Cong never mind the N. Vietnamese because they tried to fight a traditional war in wrong circumstances. Due to the basic flaws we seen what then happened in Cambodia and Laos through ineptitude, and for all the techy stuff made no damn difference to the end result and that depressing and tragic fall of Saigon. The departure was sad and also a shambles.

Now Americans go there for a holiday and it touches you to think how many of their countrymen died in a shambolic war that should have been better handled - and won.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-05-25, 21:59:49
Just to make sure I'm reading this right. You're not saying the war was reprehensible, but rather that the surrender was. Right?
The so-called peace and the abandonment of our allies. Mere money would have been enough help to them, since they were a well-trained and effective force by then. But our Congress cut them loose... Wars are always expensive.
Were there strategies that were too brutal? On both sides, probably yes. And there were atrocities committed by both sides. Such is war.
If you're committed to only wars of self-defense, your understanding of human nature is deficient: How could there be a war of self-defense if your commitment were widely shared? :)

So, I guess your question boils down to: Were the political aims of the U.S. involvement in Viet Nam rational?
Is that a correct reading, ersi?
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2015-05-25, 22:25:05

Just to make sure I'm reading this right. You're not saying the war was reprehensible, but rather that the surrender was. Right?
The so-called peace and the abandonment of our allies. Mere money would have been enough help to them, since they were a well-trained and effective force by then. But our Congress cut them loose... Wars are always expensive.
Were there strategies that were too brutal? On both sides, probably yes. And there were atrocities committed by both sides. Such is war.

Got it. War is expensive and brutal, but needs to be waged, particularly that one needed to be waged at whatever cost.


If you're committed to only wars of self-defense, your understanding of human nature is deficient: How could there be a war of self-defense if your commitment were widely shared? :)

So, you are saying you were doing Congs a favour because you put them on defense? See, even you have your moments of clear honesty. Do it more often.


So, I guess your question boils down to: Were the political aims of the U.S. involvement in Viet Nam rational?
Is that a correct reading, ersi?

No. My question does not boil down to that. My own stance is radically pacifist and you will never comprehend such.

U.S. involvement was not rational, not desired, it lacked any moral motive and lacked beneficial outcome too. There are only irrational and immoral ways to justify the involvement.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-05-25, 22:36:11
Om!

ersi, read this (http://ashbrook.org/publications/onprin-special-schramm/) (since it's somewhat closer to your home, and experience); or any number of similar memoirs.

Dear sir: Radical pacifists are the most ruthless people on the planet! They'll sacrifice anything...

Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-05-26, 00:57:01
Not a very good summation about the South Vietnam shambles at all Oakdale. So-called princples and all that jazz and using the usual stuff about in wars both sides can be guilty. You were supposed to be there on high sounding morals and the usual contradiction. Politically you were at sixes and sevens and whether you like it or not you were the same militarily. So many were drafted and hardly volunteers. And anyway you were there for so long you had plenty of time to sort out politics and military debacles.Thousands of young Americans came home injured or dead because you hadn't a clue. No doubt carried away with the 2nd WW and Korea and it showed that no matter how modern an army tries to be and have all sorts of equipment there was something very lacking. You totally messed up and allowed the hammer and scikle to float high out there.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-05-26, 01:23:46
You were supposed to be there on high sounding morals and the usual contradiction.
Just because your old needle is stuck in that record's groove doesn't make it important, RJ.
Many mistakes were made (again, by both sides...) in Viet Nam. (And I don't mean "mistakes" as a euphemism.)
I'll say it again, because you seem to have missed it: Our worst act was abandoning South Vietnam when mere dollars would have likely given them victory and security in their country.
The Russian tanks that invaded the south after our retreat could have been countered. (At least, you remember Tet fairly well...so you know what well-trained troops can do, if they're supplied.)

Is it fair to say that you don't believe the war itself (in its various stages) was a useless abomination? Just bungled... (Please explain to ersi why! I haven't the heart.)
--------------------------------------------------
BTW: Forget the conscript trope. That's been the way of most of the world for most of recorded history. It means little; and most people who'd use it do so only to resort to calumnies about all-volunteer forces...
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2015-05-26, 07:13:08
Swedish Heroes beat Russias Million Voices in the battleground worth counting (apart from ice hockey), Eurovision Song Contest. Both songs were written by Swedes, as were a number of other entries, so victory was imbedded.




Meanwhile, here in Södertälje (http://www.svt.se/nyheter/regionalt/sodertalje/patriarken-pa-besok-i-sodertalje-allt-svarare-for-kristna-i-syrien) the Oriental Orthodox Pope (Patriarch) of the Syriac Orthodox Church of Antioch, the Holiness Moran Mor Ignatius Aphrem II, has been visiting. The Church lay claim to be the first Christians, a not unwarranted claim, though as the world will have it they're becoming less Syrian, from Antioch or otherwise.

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/11071933_770110263086742_1520022935210847802_n.jpg?oh=385054010f486c809d7dd42605b2d383&oe=55BFB5C3&__gda__=1442393513_792a2c895afc450bc7b3e768e74c001f)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-05-26, 21:38:46
As for South Vietnam Oakdale. Yes that war was exceedingly bungled and mishandled by by your politicians and military. But doesn't help you one iota as it is filed under corruption and incompetence.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-05-27, 07:39:05
But doesn't help you one iota as it is filed under corruption and incompetence.
You can't possibly "file" Howie! You don't know an actual alphabet...
And the Vietnam War was not that often "mishandled" by our military. You've heard of General Abrams (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creighton_Abrams#Vietnam_War)?

It goes to show that you can't really learn history from television... (But if that's all you're capable of I guess it's better than nothing. Maybe.)

BTW: How did you tumble to the fact that the Tet Offensive was a disaster for the North? It seems unlikely that the Beeb or RTV would have mentioned it...
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-05-27, 22:21:22
Those hats are "Photoshoped".
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2015-05-28, 05:05:18
They certainly look that way, don't they. In the linked video (http://www.svt.se/nyheter/regionalt/sodertalje/patriarken-pa-besok-i-sodertalje-allt-svarare-for-kristna-i-syrien)  above it looks slightly less otherwordly.

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10985488_770109726420129_5464117515348668805_n.jpg?oh=56e28fcffb13118b9ee3de113b67f282&oe=55C0E356&__gda__=1442778079_4c4717433dca10a49687b4d2f597dff2)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-05-29, 03:26:29
Your military handled things well in Soth Vietnam, Oakdale??

Now there is an open door to out and out stupidity. Apart from odd exceptions you got nowhere. Troops shooting themselves in the foot to get home, doped up with drugs (having wee breaks massacring people) and as I pointed out when it came to pacification and help in the villages, Australia and South Korean soldiers did exceptionally well. Your lot hadn't a clue and 3rd in that list. Plenty of techy stuff and military equipment but you could not cope with the amateurs in the jungle at all. People protesting all over America, draft dodgers everywhere, AWOLs and heaven knows what. Quoting a general makes no damn sense or difference as you were there for years with half a million men and the result you had to get out as fast as you could and the Saigon fleeing was historic. For all the technical boasting the amateurs chased you out.

Your military was a success tory? Dear, oh daer. Quite sad rather than amusing.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2015-05-29, 06:14:20
Now that winter's nearly over, Swedes among least likely to die from cold (http://www.thelocal.se/20150522/swedes-least-likely-europeans-to-die-from-cold).

Quote from: The Local
More temperature-related deaths happen on moderately cold or hot days, rather than during heatwaves or freezing spells, according to researchers who studied mortality rates in 13 different countries in a paper published in The Lancet medical journal.

The public health experts studied 74 million deaths in 384 locations between 1985 and 2012, including in Sweden, Canada, Japan and the UK, and discovered that cold weather was responsible for 7.29 percent of all deaths, while heat was a factor in only 0.42 percent.

But the study showed huge differences between nations, with Brits almost twice as likely to die during cold weather (7.8 percent of deaths) compared to Swedes (3.8 percent). In fact, Sweden fared better than nearly all the other countries surveyed as part of the research, with only Taiwan, Brazil and Thailand reporting a lower percentage of deaths linked to moderately cold weather.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-05-30, 02:53:22
Wonder what is worse in Sweden. Dying of cold or boredom?
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-05-30, 06:41:21
I don't know, RJ: I've seen some Swedish girls in the flesh... Both keeping warm and staving off boredom might be easily done, if one is of a mind. :)
(Of course, if your mind bends differently... Well, you could take a long walk!)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2015-05-30, 13:17:07

Wonder what is worse in Sweden. Dying of cold or boredom?


Sadly Stockholm cannot offer nearly as many street fights as Glasgow, forcing the residents to settle for less gladiatorial entertainment, but boredom is not the only alternative to mayhem.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-05-31, 04:29:48
Very selective. Street fights are not all over this city (and nothing like places like Los Angeles, etc) but certain places. Sweden has a long history of being boring whether you like it or not. No doubt bright info fact by decades of letist ideology.....
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: tt92 on 2015-05-31, 05:39:21

Very selective. Street fights are not all over this city (and nothing like places like Los Angeles, etc) but certain places. Sweden has a long history of being boring whether you like it or not. No doubt bright info fact by decades of letist ideology.....

???
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2015-05-31, 07:15:06

???

Why ask? His answers will only raise more question marks.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-06-01, 10:47:58
http://www.nltimes.nl/2015/05/27/thief-bites-off-shopkeepers-finger-pinched/ (http://www.nltimes.nl/2015/05/27/thief-bites-off-shopkeepers-finger-pinched/)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-06-02, 14:43:30
A compendium of...well, you guess who posted these gems.
Hint, hint.
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.scotclans.com%2Fimg%2Fshop%2FKD-G02-large.jpg&hash=5868b28307b887007f85d668bda98950" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.scotclans.com/img/shop/KD-G02-large.jpg)
Quote
Not that you would know it due to your limited grey cells dear osteoporosis supporter. This country was not ready for a war. Our Prime Minister tried to avoid having one knowing full well the history of WW1. He travelled to see Hitler twice and you come out with this drivel? We were badly bombed  in the major cities and large numbers died in the air attacks. By the end of the war the cost ran us into the ground not just in lives but infrastructure, rail, everything. Money was borrowed from America and not paid off until modern times so you made a profit from WW2 we did not. War although delayed by us was coming and the Polish agreement had to be followed while your lot stayed out for ages so we fought on virtually alone.  You are an embarrassment to your fellow countrymen and as you are a terror supporter an unprincipled oaf. Your misuse of historyand rat bag stuff at the lowest is disgusting. Shame on you!
...............
Well you are a generally typical ex-colonist mjsmsprt40! Any excuse to have guns and i know ell about farmers. When the Wild West gradually faded you had no great traditions like other countries so the gun was kept as some kind of worshipping item needed to defend, etc. Your country is gun mad and why there are police problems and you need over 200 million guns for defending yourselves? Uh? And you preach you are a modern, great example to the world and have a myriad of excuses for guns at home. Well why do other places in the world nt need to follow that poor example!? It doesn't give a very good impression of a country to be so up to the necks in this utter nonsense. The good things over there get spoled by the mass gun hysteria and excuse used for them.
............
Talk about nut job land with even children in on the cowboy freakery. Safety for school/ What a terrible admission that one is and anyway doesn't help with school shootings being so frequent. Brought it on yourselves. You don't have to make head shaking incidents they are part of society.
.............
That one about Russian planes leaning on Finland. How about the US navy leaning on mainland China? Considering you are in hock to that country seems a bit stupid.
.............
Don'y worry jax the land of the free and home of the brave will deal with Saudi Arabia contradicting ex-colonial principles.........
............
How can you be so infantile? Oh you like trying to be funny but fall back on the old hoary one about digging at the USA. It is so damn easy the way you act and you simple cannot answer the points about the police. It has been going on for ever over there and it is only nowadays it is getting more predominance and for very good reasons.

If your police cannot run after an unarmed man without gunning him with several bullets they are not trained right. The same applies to 30 odd officers shooting over 130 bullets at 2 unarmed in a car then that idiot on the bonnet pumping in dozens.  Every so often we see because of modern tv, mobile phones, etc, police beating people up sometimes more than one carrying out the battering, choking or whatever. Recently a documentary gave an insight into some mental institutions where the unifromed guards do not take on board the occupants have mental problems and beat them up and worse. It is obliviously a deep problem you have with cops.  Hey does anyone over there remember foot patrols instead of convoys of cars?
................
Imagine someone from nutjobland calling some other person elsewhere naive or zombie like! Sharing success is anew one for ex-colonists.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2015-07-23, 07:51:48
Northwestern Europe  (and NW India) cool exception to a near-global heatwave in June.

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fgfx.nrk.no%2F%2F-yFytJzPU5fGxNvHqBMalQrnUj1fQvJNtWtvktzzu7_w&hash=14a60dd772e5a93c09cab119161b7cf3" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://gfx.nrk.no//-yFytJzPU5fGxNvHqBMalQrnUj1fQvJNtWtvktzzu7_w)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2015-07-23, 15:49:59
For those who didn't notice yet: Microsoft sacks 7,800 workers from smartphone unit (http://bestmobs.com/microsoft-sacks-7800-workers-smartphone-unit-26344/)

In Finland, the cuts concern 2300 workers, practically everyone who were working for what used to be the world-leading mobile phone producer Nokia. This is the last chapter of the Elop effect (http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2011/08/coining-term-elop-effect-when-you-combine-osborne-effect-and-ratner-effect.html). Probably also death of Windows phones.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: krake on 2015-07-23, 17:57:04

This is the last chapter of the Elop effect (http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2011/08/coining-term-elop-effect-when-you-combine-osborne-effect-and-ratner-effect.html).

I would rather call it a Trojan horse effect...
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-07-24, 00:19:08
My first mobile phone well over 12 years ago was a Nokia. Pity way things have went for them.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2015-07-24, 18:46:39
Honestly I think it is good they got gutted. They had a toxic company culture, worse than Apple. We wouldn't want to be in a world ruled by "connecting people". That applies to the now-dead handset division, I've had no dealing with the rest, if they were any better.

Nokia changed Opera as well. If they hadn't wanted a phone browser back in the year 2000 things may have gone differently.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2015-07-24, 19:26:03
Both songs were written by Swedes, as were a number of other entries, so victory was imbedded.

So only the performers need to be from a particular country, not the composers?

Honestly I think it is good they got gutted. They had a toxic company culture, worse than Apple. We wouldn't want to be in a world ruled by "connecting people". That applies to the now-dead handset division, I've had no dealing with the rest, if they were any better.

Any thoughts on Jolla?
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-07-28, 22:18:24
It seems that a Scottish "Baron" was caught having a cocaine line with prostitutes. Wow...
He's being crucified, the poor protestant "baron" at the land of protestants.

For the populace that knows shit about nobility titles, a "Baron" is a sort of title that anyone can buy. It's for life but not hereditary. Your children will keep on being the sons of mr Smith.
(That, of course, for the true European nobility from the continent, who knows cares about what they do at the old albion...)
Basically it serves for the Crown to get some welcome revenue.

I just love Protestant Inquisition.  :lol:
Would have they balls and they will immediately proclaim the "Baron" their King. They have no better than that.
Opps, I forgot, Prince Charles...
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-08-02, 19:48:49
Well I wonder what religion that Lord eSwel is in actual fact? When it comes to an inquisition superiority I will admit and give your corner the accolades for that direction and a long one at that. Boiled in oil, hung, drawn,quartered? As for future monarchs at least we still have them which is more than be said for your country which suffered badly. Being a subtle monarchist you are (tut-tut) being slightly mischievous).
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-08-02, 20:06:12
(I think, in this case, I should follow the sensible advice of George Washington: "Avoid foreign entanglements" -- specially the squabbling between petty European states! :) )
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2015-08-02, 20:12:27

(I think, in this case, I should follow the sensible advice of George Washington: "Avoid foreign entanglements" -- specially the squabbling between petty European states! :) )


Amen, Brother Oakdale.

Truth, we would have done well to heed George Washington's words on that from the beginning. Now we try to be the world's policeman/mommy, and look what we get. An enormous military budget (necessary if you're going to have influence in the far corners of the world) and people like RJ, Belfrager and Krake who spend all their time telling us how much worse we are at running the world than their respective countries were when they did it.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-08-02, 20:26:31
Yup!
What do you suppose the chances are that Scotland, Portugal or Germany would like to foot the bill (in money, equipment and troops...) so we can retire and enjoy our dotage? :)
(I suspect mere spite would keep two of those three from it, regardless! :( )
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-08-02, 20:52:19
Particularly when Mr. Putin comes visiting.
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.embassynews.ca%2Fsites%2Fembassynews.ca%2Ffiles%2Fstory_image%2F2014%2FSep%2FA%2520statue%2520of%2520Russian%2520President%2520Vladimir%2520Putin%2520in%2520Moscow%2520in%25202010%2520-%2520UN%2520Photo%2520Mark%2520Garten.jpg&hash=e2262da3876000d42a2bb69e327e262a" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.embassynews.ca/sites/embassynews.ca/files/story_image/2014/Sep/A%20statue%20of%20Russian%20President%20Vladimir%20Putin%20in%20Moscow%20in%202010%20-%20UN%20Photo%20Mark%20Garten.jpg)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2015-08-02, 21:01:14

....and people like RJ, Belfrager and Krake who spend all their time telling us how much worse we are at running the world than their respective countries were when they did it.

According to one theory, all the trouble with Germany is due to the fact that Germany was the only major European power who never got a chance to run overseas colonies like others did. But I don't buy that theory. Germans had their chance long before there were any overseas. They ran the Hanse and colonised Czech, Prussia, and two Baltic countries beginning from the 12th century.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: krake on 2015-08-02, 22:11:06

Amen, Brother Oakdale.

Now we try to be the world's policeman/mommy, and look what we get. An enormous military budget (necessary if you're going to have influence in the far corners of the world) and people like RJ, Belfrager and Krake who spend all their time telling us how much worse we are at running the world than their respective countries were when they did it.

Was Hitler the 'mommy' of the world? Was the British Empire the 'mommy' of the world? Has anybody asked them to become the 'mommy' of the world?
So far about past and actual 'mommies' of the world...
As for policeman of the world, between 20-30 millions of people killed as a result of US interventions around the world since WW2 - not a bad record at all...


Yup!
What do you suppose the chances are that Scotland, Portugal or Germany would like to foot the bill (in money, equipment and troops...) so we can retire and enjoy our dotage? :)

What holds you up from retiring? The tempting idea to rule the world?
The idea might be tempting, others had it as well in the past...
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2015-08-02, 23:26:22
They say the sun never set on the British Empire-- because God couldn't trust them in the dark....
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-08-03, 09:28:48
between 20-30 millions of people killed as a result of US interventions around the world since WW2

Quote
The U.S. is responsible for between 1 and 1.8 million deaths during the war between the Soviet Union and Afghanistan, by luring the Soviet Union into invading that nation.

Obviously, the Soviet Union bore no responsibility for what happened. Gotta love studies!

That said, the U.S. has been involved in too many foreign endeavors for far too long. The do-gooders got us involved in WWI. Then into WWII which the UK and Soviet Union were capable of handling without our involvement.

And now the China scare!
Quote
The news that Russia's eastern Zabaikalsky region would grant 115,000 hectares of land to the Chinese company Huae Xinban under a 49-year lease stirred up a maelstrom of controversy and anxiety in Russia.  A survey conducted by Rosbalt shows that 50.5% of that news agency's readers fear such a deal "provides fertile ground for China's colonization and then annexation of Siberia, and for a major war."


Oh, my!
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: krake on 2015-08-03, 10:38:45

between 20-30 millions of people killed as a result of US interventions around the world since WW2

Quote
The U.S. is responsible for between 1 and 1.8 million deaths during the war between the Soviet Union and Afghanistan, by luring the Soviet Union into invading that nation.

Obviously, the Soviet Union bore no responsibility for what happened. Gotta love studies!

Since you do not make any reference to the study you are quoting from and since you love studies, I'll be so kind to give you a few references as a start. :)

Civil casualties caused by "the world's greatest force for peace and freedom, for democracy and security and prosperity":
- Tirman, J. (2011). The deaths of others: the fate of civilians in America's wars. Oxford University Press
- Hagiopan et al. (2013) Mortality in Iraq Associated with the 2003-2011 War and Occupation: Findings from a National Cluster Sample Survey by the University Collaborative Iraq Mortality Study, PLoS Medicine / DOI: 10.1371/journal.pmed. 1001533
- IPPNW (2015). Casualty Figures after 10 Years of the "War on Terror" / Iraq - Afghanistan - Pakistan

In case you want to make your own study I can help you with a list of US wars and covert foreign regime change actions since WW2.
The list is by far not complete but even so it might keep you busy for the rest of your life.
---------

OT: It was me and not Ersi you've cited in your above post. Ersi is inocent. :)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2015-08-03, 11:05:42
The Economist has made a subsite for whatiffery. One is What if a NATO member comes under attack (http://worldif.economist.com/article/3/what-if-a-nato-member-comes-under-attack-article-of-faith), the NATO members in question being Estonia and Latvia.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2015-08-03, 11:28:36

According to one theory, all the trouble with Germany is due to the fact that Germany was the only major European power who never got a chance to run overseas colonies like others did. But I don't buy that theory. Germans had their chance long before there were any overseas. They ran the Hanse and colonised Czech, Prussia, and two Baltic countries beginning from the 12th century.


If you refer as "Germany" anything before the unification in 1871 it gets tricky. It is possible to claim a continuity from then to now (Imperial Germany, Weimar Republic, Nazi Germany, Federal Republic of Germany/German Democratic Republic, Re-Unified Germany), but harder to claim a continuity before that.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2015-08-03, 12:21:24

If you refer as "Germany" anything before the unification in 1871 it gets tricky. It is possible to claim a continuity from then to now (Imperial Germany, Weimar Republic, Nazi Germany, Federal Republic of Germany/German Democratic Republic, Re-Unified Germany), but harder to claim a continuity before that.

Yup, that's the other theory about Germany: Fundamental problems of self-identity :)

I happen to lean towards this theory. Germany is historically very splintered. The first major force was the Hanseatic League that in German lands covered only the Northern Germany and the Netherlands. Later Luther's Bible translation raised some linguistic sense of unity and Prussian Bismarck effected some political unity. Yet Austria remained a separate empire und eine kleine Anschluss meanwhile did not look so good. That's the problem.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-08-03, 13:38:06
An enormous military budget (necessary if you're going to have influence in the far corners of the world) and people like RJ, Belfrager and Krake who spend all their time telling us how much worse we are at running the world than their respective countries were when they did it.

How ungrateful we are...  :lol: :P

Anyway I'm not related with those northerner gentlemen in any possible way. If so different people says the same, it can only be true. :)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-08-03, 18:02:50
Bomb Portugal!

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fkbimages1-a.akamaihd.net%2FImages%2F7d6eca22-d05f-4862-b89f-613c20b96dc3%2F310%2F310%2F85%2Ffalse%2Fthe-uro-crash-european-time-bomb-1.jpg%3Fmethod%3Dscale&hash=a0bd93f05dc351841fe1338b3bc2a6b7" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://kbimages1-a.akamaihd.net/Images/7d6eca22-d05f-4862-b89f-613c20b96dc3/310/310/85/false/the-uro-crash-european-time-bomb-1.jpg?method=scale)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-08-03, 20:49:55
Bomb Portugal!

Worthless, you never did it, you never will do it. Sissies.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2015-08-03, 22:14:31

Bomb Portugal!

Worthless, you never did it, you never will do it. Sissies.


Portugal was--- from our standpoint-- never worth the bother. It's a country known for fishing the Grand Banks as well as a country known for going to the bank to borrow. But Portugal hasn't been a credible power since the days when Portugal and Spain were trying to divide the world between them with the aid and assistance of the pope at that time.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-08-04, 00:05:59
Portugal was--- from our standpoint-- never worth the bother. It's a country known for fishing the Grand Banks as well as a country known for going to the bank to borrow. But Portugal hasn't been a credible power since the days when Portugal and Spain were trying to divide the world between them with the aid and assistance of the pope at that time.

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cathnewsusa.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F02%2Fpope.gif&hash=1c6f3cad4f6ef5833d48e23bf08ea403" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.cathnewsusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/pope.gif)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-08-04, 14:36:57
The man in the pic wasn't Portuguese so the point is?
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-08-04, 15:56:41
Mjm mentioned the pope, and that's my favorite pope. Who's yours?
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2015-08-04, 16:01:41
The first major force was the Hanseatic League that in German lands covered only the Northern Germany and the Netherlands.

Note that its language, Low German, is a lot closer to Dutch than High German. Nowadays the differences appear a lot more immense.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2015-08-04, 17:54:35

The first major force was the Hanseatic League that in German lands covered only the Northern Germany and the Netherlands.

Note that its language, Low German, is a lot closer to Dutch than High German. Nowadays the differences appear a lot more immense.

Some would say that Dutch is not a different language, but rather yet another German-speaking country like Austria and (most of) Switzerland, adding to the splintered self-identity of Germans.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2015-08-04, 19:30:27
Some would say that Dutch is not a different language, but rather yet another German-speaking country like Austria and (most of) Switzerland, adding to the splintered self-identity of Germans.

Dutch is Low Franconian with a rather strong Ingvaeonic substrate. In my opinion it's only Limburgish that's properly part of the German dialect continuum,[1] although obviously Dutch is also the continuation of the continuum that extends across the North Sea (or used to before William the Conqueror, anyway). Of course, those silly nineteenth century nationalists tried to anachronistically claim Heinric van Veldeke as a Dutch or German author, whereas in a twelfth-century context such terminology is utterly meaningless.[2] But in support of that argument, in those days Willem II (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_II_of_Holland), Count of Holland, was also the king of Germany. I would counter that we've developed in rather separate directions ever since Philip the Good (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_the_Good) took control. Oh yeah, and I forgot to mention that Flanders has traditionally been a (Dutch speaking) part of France, not Germany. As per the Treaty of Verdun:

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/42/Partage_de_l%27Empire_carolingien_au_Trait%C3%A9_de_Verdun_en_843.JPG/1304px-Partage_de_l%27Empire_carolingien_au_Trait%C3%A9_de_Verdun_en_843.JPG) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Partage_de_l%27Empire_carolingien_au_Trait%C3%A9_de_Verdun_en_843.JPG)

[1] Dutch has a few singular features with regard to e.g. umlaut (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_umlaut) because of it.
[2] It's interesting to note that Veldeke restricted his rhyme words to only those that would work across all German dialects. That's no small feat.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-08-06, 11:08:40
Hhhm, jimbro, I don't have a favourite Pope.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-08-06, 11:29:16
William II of Holland (February 1227 - 28 January 1256) was a Count of Holland and Zeeland (1235-56). He was elected as German anti-king in 1247 and remained king until his death.

At the time, Flandres was where the best fabrics and tissues comes from. Very expensive.
Zeeland... long time I see no one using that name.

Those old maps are always a refreshing thing to look.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2015-08-06, 12:11:57
And Brugge was still a prosperous port -- imagine that!
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2015-08-06, 13:05:49

Some would say that Dutch is not a different language, but rather yet another German-speaking country like Austria and (most of) Switzerland, adding to the splintered self-identity of Germans.


If you use a language-based continuity you would get into what German(ic) should be, including what Frenzie mentioned, even the English, the Franks, the Rus, and the Vandals if you cast the net wide enough.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-08-06, 14:59:40


Quote
Harrogate is the happiest place to live in Britain, according to a survey by a property website.
The spa town topped the poll for the third year in a row in the Rightmove report, which asked 24,000 people how they feel about where they live.
Shrewsbury was ranked second, with Ipswich third and York and Chester completing the top five.
Inverness came highest in Scotland, in sixth, with seventh-placed Llandrindod Wells the top Welsh location.

For more, see this.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-33794154 (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-33794154)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2015-08-06, 20:32:52
If you use a language-based continuity you would get into what German(ic) should be, including what Frenzie mentioned, even the English, the Franks, the Rus, and the Vandals if you cast the net wide enough.

If you cast the net as wide as the so-called "dialects" of Chinese, I think we can probably include all of Indo-European. Which would also make it the most widely spoken language in the world. ;)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2015-08-07, 08:37:06
That would take us out of Germanic languages and North Europe, which my examples partially were inside.

To define continuity based on a language, here German, before that language really was crystallised, is going to be difficult. Especially as language is fluid, the children may not speak the language of the parents, also many leading "Germans" did not speak German, but French (or before that presumably Latin). It would not be impossible, but there would be awkwardness with retroactively applying classifications. The German language was a foundation for the creation of Germany, but it was Germany that created German. Likewise Italian didn't exist before Italy was created, it's basically the Florentine dialect.

I am of course not saying that language doesn't matter, e.g. Latin was important both before and after the fall of the Western Roman Empire, or that the ancestors of modern German can't be discerned from other Germanic languages and dialects.

And sure, the early speakers of the Proto-Indo-European language certainly wrecked havoc as well. The hypothesis that they were Ukrainian easy riders subjugating the more civilised farmers nearby about 6000 years ago is getting some traction. Still educated guesswork though.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2015-08-27, 11:56:12
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2015-08-30, 11:27:13
Syrians cross Norway's Arctic border on bicy[c]les (http://www.thelocal.no/20150827/syrians-crossing-norway-border-on-bicyles)

Quote
More than 100 Syrian refugees have crossed the Arctic border into Norway from Russia on bicycles, exploiting a loophole in the country's border regulations.

[...] The Storskog border station -- just two hours drive from the Arctic City of Murmansk in Russia's far north -- is Norway's only legal border crossing with Russia.

According to border agreements, it is illegal either to cross the border on foot or to give someone without papers a lift, a problem Syrian refugees have sidestepped by using bicycles.

"It is not news to us that tourists cross the border on bicycles, but recently we've also started to see some asylum seekers coming by bicycle," Gøran Stenseth, one of the border officials, told the local Sør-Varanger Avis newspaper.

So far this year, 133 asylum seekers have entered Norway though Storskog on bicycles. According to local police, most of them are Syrian refugees.


(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/bded392c7dd2c1da3c3428d95911a402c95125cc/0_246_3775_2265/master/3775.jpg?w=700&q=85&auto=format&sharp=10&s=40dcf0c001128ee22af5b490203e8bb0)

The new angle on a tragic story apart, I suspect The Guardian is the more reliable source (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/aug/29/syrian-refugees-europe-arctic-circle-russia-norway), and the number is "a couple" rather than 133 this year.

Quote
"You can say that maybe about five to 20 people try it a month. There have been a couple of people who have tried by bicycle. The rest are being driven over in Russian cars. It's very easy for them to cross - they can just sit in a Russian car, and come into Norway. And it's legal."

According to Sør-Varanger Avis, a local newspaper, 133 asylum-seekers have used this method in 2015, most of whom are Syrians.

How this obscure border crossing came to be a magnet for Syrians is not yet clear. Pettersen said his colleagues perform only the most perfunctory interviews with refugees, before putting them on one of the twice-daily planes to the immigration police in Oslo.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2015-08-30, 12:22:27
Hm, that's funny.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2015-08-30, 20:06:30
@jax
Is the image at the actual border crossing?

(I saw the same story in the news this morning. The story does not mention visas. A bicycle is not enough to cross the border. You need a Schengen visa.)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2015-09-01, 08:26:01
No, that's just a pretty picture purportedly from Kirkenes,  the nearest town.  The other article shows the actual border passing.
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thelocal.no%2Fuserdata%2Fimages%2Farticle%2Fw468%2F5f556a08f90dd81f1366ffff42529b3a35167b697655013c5ba47ffcf82bec51.jpg&hash=d86379daf55fe5d47205b5001010e580" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.thelocal.no/userdata/images/article/w468/5f556a08f90dd81f1366ffff42529b3a35167b697655013c5ba47ffcf82bec51.jpg)
They are refugees and wouldn't need visa. Russia is not yet in the EU so Dublin wouldn't apply.  I think the not walking restriction is a formality, I don't think they would reject anyone for a traffic violation. I walked into Greece from Turkey, a border passing with the same restriction, they didn't stop me.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2015-09-01, 09:11:29

I walked into Greece from Turkey, a border passing with the same restriction, they didn't stop me.

You had to show your passport though? You cannot cross borders simply by saying you are a refugee, can you? I have a bunch of acquaintances who have crossed borders in the Balkans during troubled times and, as a minimum, they had to pay bribes. On other occasions, they were locked up for not having their papers in order.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2015-09-28, 05:32:00
Remember the spy-snatching incident at the Estonian border with Russia?


Update 3: Eston Kohver has been placed under arrest by Moscow court. He is suspected of spying and has to sit 2 months until his case is investigated. In case of conviction for this crime, Russian law prescribes 10 to 20 years jail http://www.interfax.ru/russia/395367


Meanwhile, Kohver was convicted of spying and sentenced to 15 years in a lovely historical Russian city Pskov (recommended, if you are into exotic tourism).

Now Kohver has been exchanged for another Estonian secret service official Aleksei Dressen, convicted of spying and sentenced to 16 years by Estonian authorities. Dressen was spying for Russia, i.e. the charge against him was treason http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34369853

The guys have swapped countries now. Kohver is home. Dressen is where he longed to be. Estonian secret service accommodates lots of nice people. ("Lots of nice people" has been the slogan of the pro-integration campaign in Estonian media, led by Estonian ministry of internal affairs.)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2015-09-30, 12:54:48
The National Library of Scotland is going to digitize about a third of its collection.

Quote from: http://www.nls.uk/news/press/2015/09/library-strategy-launched
It will be a gateway to information on Scottish culture and history that will allow millions of people to view unique documents including manuscripts of major Scottish writers such as Robert Burns and Walter Scott, fascinating official reports on many subjects, thousands of films on life in Scotland, and -- bringing things up to date -- memorabilia from last year's referendum on Scottish independence, among many others.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-09-30, 22:50:59
The National Library of Scotland is going to digitize about a third of its collection.

I suppose that the English will decide what third would be and Scottish will applaud and be thankfull...
:lol:

Well, those who voted no for independence of course.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Luxor on 2015-10-01, 12:06:40
I suppose that the English will decide what third would be and Scottish will applaud and be thankfull...

Thankfully, it's got bugger all to do with them.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-10-02, 19:05:25
Now how is that Belfrager for an example of arrogant, emotional nationalism?
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Luxor on 2015-10-02, 19:50:14
Now how is that Belfrager for an example of arrogant, emotional nationalism?

Said the britnat, who wraps himself in the union jack. (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/253164678/rolleyes.gif)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-10-06, 14:55:07
Imagine such hypocritical guff from a man such as Luxor who is in with those who wrap themselves in the Scottish saltire as if they own it. They are so full of emotional guff and that is really contradictory! On Education, health service, oil they are at a loss. Some 15 of the SNP MP's are involved in property deals and one is in trouble directly. They dish out a six-figure sum to a pop festival to a company that makes millions. As for accusing me of wrapping in the Union Flag it really is a bit rich the way the Nats act on flags. That wench, Sturgeon is clever and manipulates the emotional strings of the modern jacobite mentality. Cuckoo Land.  :hat:
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Luxor on 2015-10-06, 17:34:41
Cuckoo Land.

Must be a home-from-home for a zoomer like you then. (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/253164678/givefinger.gif)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-10-07, 01:48:39
You are just like the legions of modern Jacobites. Not able to deal with the issues but like the yanks fall back on stupidity or smart alec waffle as the practice stuff is too awkward. Waving a flag and biting back the emotional tears is easy than face the truth.You fit the label well so keep it up.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-10-07, 05:05:27
I suppose that the English will decide what third would be and Scottish will applaud and be thankfull...
Yeah: They'll reject anything that sounds like English, and then just weigh the rest and dump the pages until the scales balance!
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-10-08, 18:32:52
The modern Jacobites (viz the SNP lot) are grumping about the powers Scotland is getting. They couldn't accept the nReferndum and have been sniping since then instead of actually noting the broad base we are getting. They ignore the collapse in oil prices, the mass sackings in that industry, health probelms, education al as I said and if it rains too hard that will be Westminster's fault. In addition we would like to know about how they are going to cope financially with broad powers in taxation as well. That broad clever witch of a womasn, Sturgeon in a newspaper interview claimed she was basically shy. Aye right. Piffle because in a programme on her ages ago those that went to school with her said she was an active mouth yet in the newspaper claimed the opposite. Even when hit in the Edinburgh parliament on failings she will dance around and saying yes there are problems in areas that need attending. After 8 years they are still saying that so the usual emotional guff and saltire waving. The thing that saved Scotland in the past was the aftermath of the Union of Crowns at the Union of parliaments in 1707. The nation was more or less bankrupt and that lot even tried to claim Robert Burns as in their corner by quoting from a poetic comment. He was exercising a view on the method of transition then got a job in the united government as a customs officer!

On flag waving, Sturgeon said she would rather paint the flag on her face so do feel free gob mouth and cover your mouth while at it.  :lol:
I will give you your due OakdlaeFTL as you touch a valid corner!
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-10-21, 17:54:20
A time back I was lambasting Scots independence supporters for the level of hate being expressed on the internet social groups and a modern Jacobite here scoffed tta that. Now the BBC has reported that the SNP leader has appealed to independence supporters to stop the vile and hateful stuff being perpetuated. She even had to admit that mindset was wrong in accusing Scots who are anti-independence of not being Scots.

Hallelujah, something i can agree with smart alec about!
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2015-10-21, 19:59:43
Hmmmm.... I have a question. The term "Jacobite" gets thrown around quite a bit here. Seems to me the originals weren't just interested in Scottish independence. They had it in mind to take back the throne of England while they were at it--- and more than a few had Roman Catholic sympathies into the bargain.

Soooooo----- the question: Do modern Jacobites just want Scottish independence, or are they also trying to take back the throne of--- now-- the entire UK? What about religious sympathies? Are modern Jacobites largely RC, or are they Protestant? That could be important---- a Roman Catholic Jacobite faction with designs on the throne could be major trouble. It was last time.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Luxor on 2015-10-22, 12:07:05
Hmmmm.... I have a question. The term "Jacobite" gets thrown around quite a bit here.

Only by rj and that's because the only place they exist is in his head.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-10-23, 06:20:54
Only by rj and that's because the only place they exist is in his head.
:)
But there do seem to be Papists... (The "stopped clock" phenomenon? :) )
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Luxor on 2015-10-23, 12:54:18
But there do seem to be Papists... (The "stopped clock" phenomenon?  :)  )

True enough. They're easily identified though, so we can usually ignore them.  ;)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-10-24, 00:01:33
Oh, I knew fine Oakdale that luxor would come on with a sniffy attitude to my news on Sturgeon. As usual he adopts the normal snooty attitude of nationalists. When it comes to failures in Sturgeonism people like him instead slip into that hoity toity attitude because he and them cannot answer. A while back to be even more practical he tried to rubbish my stand on what was happening on the Net from the Luxor Brigadoon and modern jacobites. Now Sturgeon admitting their IS a problem is totally ignore by his mentality. His silly answer does however emphasise my Sturgeon intimation of guilt. Note that he ignored that.

ps Oakdale.

A few years ago the then big mouth leader of the SNP, Alex Salmond was going after the RC vote and started sooking in with the then Cardinal of the red socks corner. Unfortunately the Cardinal had to stand down as he was aqueer and tried it on with 3 young priests! Haha, brilliant!  :lol:
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Luxor on 2015-10-24, 12:24:01
people like him instead slip into that hoity toity attitude because he and them cannot answer.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/253164678/yawn.gif) I can answer fine. I just can't be be arsed to waste my time with the likes of yourself.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-10-25, 00:18:35
You are still showing your arrogance, self-righteous and ignorance Luxor. In the past when negatives about the modern Jacobite neragtives in politcs you have never answered them. instead you try to be so would-be superior.  You fit in well with those legions who flocked to the Brigadoon banner and ignore the difficult pointsd. You might not be as bad as those balloons that your arrogant woman pal has had to roundly condemn but you are in the same corner practicing, well nothing. Very much in the same vein as that stupid woman I mentioned once at the bus stop. She should have stayed in the kitchen and you in the comic book shop.

Over the time the Scottish Nose Pickers have been in charge at Edinburgh there have been probs with the NHS, mass sackings in the oil industry that was meant to finance independence, time after time in the parliament when failures have been raised by the opposition she comes out with the guff that "yes there are problems but we are working on them. (!). That might keep the child minds all with kindergarten minds nodding whilst ignoring that they have had 6 years to solve them. So sneer and posture all you like as the fat of political life is a harder subject.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-10-25, 05:21:47
I take it, RJ, that Scots democracy is not -despite much longer practice- much better than what you accuse us ex-colonists of... :)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Luxor on 2015-10-25, 12:18:50
arrogance, self-righteous and ignorance

Three words that sum you up in a nutshell. Well done. (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/253164678/Handclap.gif)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2015-10-25, 19:21:26

I take it, RJ, that Scots democracy is not -despite much longer practice- much better than what you accuse us ex-colonists of... :)


I sometimes suspect that RJ wants to go back to pre-Magna Carta days, when the King's word was law and none dare question it. Dispense with Parliament and America's Congress and let the monarch rule as monarchs should.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-10-25, 21:32:55
A friend of mine bought a wrench from Estonia.
I think that it must be an huge increasing for the Estonian-Portuguese multilateral economic relationship. :)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: krake on 2015-10-25, 22:36:06

I think that it must be an huge increasing for the Estonian-Portuguese multilateral economic relationship. :)

For sure it is but on the other hand it might harm the Portuguese trade balance. :)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-10-27, 07:34:35
Does Portugal exitst as a country anymore...? Or only an item in the debit column of the EU? :)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2015-10-27, 12:24:50
The Norwegian army may have the answer to reducing sexism at work (http://qz.com/533353/the-norwegian-army-may-have-the-answer-to-reducing-sexism-at-work/)

The answer: It only takes endless abuse and living in cramped quarters.

(The picture is clearly not from Norway; the Norwegian army has funny hats too, but not those funny hats. The picture is likely from some amusement camp for misspent youth.)

Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-10-28, 19:09:37
You will all note that my description of Luxor is valid in that he has never yet been able to contend with the practical problems the Nationalist are causing and instead avoids them. He is typical of the would-be intellectuals who cannot answer the direct political challenge and instead swipe and and simply emotional.,  As for our democracy being somehow deficit like in the ex-colonies that is of course a desperation fromthe mjsmsprt50's and OakdaleFTL's of that country. Scotland is far more democratic than America and a better system. Even on the subject of the Referendum just try and see if that was ever to happen in the good ole US of A - no chance.

The Luxor mentality speaks for itself by just holding onto a cause but unable to answer the charges against it. It thus gives a choice of ignorance or on the other hand, incapability of the negatives. Intelligent Uncle Sams of who there are many can see his failings and inability to deal with the hard facts.  Thankfully the Us hermit and the Windy City man seem unable to see the obvious.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2015-10-29, 08:41:54
Seemingly not only Candidate Sanders and the Scottish separatists yearning to break free of the British yoke look to Norway (https://www.awesomestories.com/asset/view/FDR-Look-to-Norway-), British separatists yearning to break free of the EU yoke do so as well. This is of course due to Norway's semi-independent relationship to the EU.

Cameron tells anti-EU campaigners: 'Norway option' won't work for Britain (http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/oct/28/cameron-to-confront-norway-option-anti-eu-campaigners)
Quote from: The Guardian
The prime minister, who has faced strong pressure from pro-European Tories to highlight the benefits of the UK's EU membership, will speak out during an appearance at the Northern Future Forum in Reykjavik, Iceland.

He will use the chance of a summit in a European capital outside the EU to issue a point-by-point challenge to the claim by the Leave campaign that Britain could negotiate a credible relationship with Brussels from outside the EU.

Cameron will focus on the "Norwegian option (http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/mar/16/eu-exit-norway-option-costs-thinktank)", often cited by the Leave campaign, which has allowed Oslo to enjoy access to the single market without joining the EU.

"The prime minister believes it is important to highlight the questions Britain would face if it left the EU and followed Norway's model (http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/oct/28/the-norway-option-what-is-it-and-what-does-it-mean-for-britain)," a No 10 source said. Downing Street pointed out that Norway is the 10th largest contributor to the EU budget and is bound by the rules of the single market without any say in the decision-making process (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/27/norway-eu-reality-uk-voters-seduced-by-norwegian-model).


The PM is right incidentally. Norway would have little to no say in the EU, inside or outside the Union, but Britain is one of the three countries that determine EU policies.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-10-30, 00:27:53
You are only giving a part answer regarding Norway and you are therefore a bit wrong in the direction you are going. Norway has often to dish out as much as us must accept whatever is decided in Brussels and has no possibility of challenging anything due to not being a member so it is not that great a corner in practice. Id Gt Britain came out of the corrupt EU there is no way we would be shunned as our economy is stoo strong for Europe to get hyped about. So i don't want that Scandinavian farce I just want out. Years are passing and the place is still in a financial and political shambles and as I stated a while back for well over a decade the books have never been cleared legally due to "inconsistencies."
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2015-10-30, 04:17:55
We'll see if my old scenario plays out: The UK secedes from the EU, giving Scotland cause to secede from the UK and rejoin the EU.

(Alternatively: The separatists fail to win the poll because of Scottish votes to remain in the Union in the Union. Rump-UK would have a majority for leaving, leading for calls from the separatists that Rump-UK should leave Scotland.)

If Catalonia leaves Spain can it join the UK?

Then there is the "nothing happens" alternative.

Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-11-02, 02:14:50
O do not think it should just be routinely accepted that Scotland would want to be in the EU. The people led by that Sturgeon woman do not represent all Scotland......

And anyway not so long ago the Orkney & Shetland Isles of the far north coast raised the possibility of them seceding from an independent Scotland! The idea can go a long way, eh?
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-11-03, 20:00:45
O do not think it should just be routinely accepted that Scotland would want to be in the EU.

What are your thoughts on EU membership? The economic benefits are significant. What is the downside?
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-11-03, 21:56:27
Groan. I have always said that I want out the EU.  Anyway the membership costs a damn lot of money and control after control over so much from law to everday things. There is no way if Gt Britain was to come out of the European mess that we would suffer. Our economy is 5th in the world and there is no way thatEurope would want us to be not dealing with them in business and commercially - plus the london finance side is strong as well as our present financial state of things. Great steps in employment, zero inflation and so on. So there is no possible scene where would not still trade because Europe will not want to lost it but we would have billions more to spend here than in a system that is finacially disgusting. May I also remind that it is long years sine the EU has ever got a clearance on it's books? 

I am glad we kept the pound and that wisdom is evident as Europe is still in a messed state with the Euro. Neither do we want continued political closeness. May i also inform you that when we had the original Referendum many decades ago it was for a trade agreement not a political State which it has subtly become. Europe is fine for millions of Britons including the less well off to get to for holidays but increased influence by a shaky system is something else.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-11-03, 23:16:11
The economic benefits are significant.

I believe most Americans thinks so, but that's profoundly wrong. The EU was made for German with industry and France with agriculture to vampirize all the other members.
Then German pissed off in France and now they rule alone, into another european suicide, as Germany is specialist on doing.

And that was the best lesson you could ever learn about europe. Directly from an european specialist.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-11-05, 04:51:49
Used to want to rule with leather jackboots but now it is financial ones.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2015-11-06, 03:29:14

What are your thoughts on EU membership? The economic benefits are significant. What is the downside?
The ones in business tend to be overwhelmingly pro-EU. The unemployed and economically unproductive tend to be against.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-11-07, 02:54:57
Someone should inform the wee woman in high heels that is my First Minister that.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-11-07, 11:07:56
The ones in business tend to be overwhelmingly pro-EU. The unemployed and economically unproductive tend to be against.

You mean Belfrager and company?
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-11-07, 12:36:14

The ones in business tend to be overwhelmingly pro-EU. The unemployed and economically unproductive tend to be against.

You mean Belfrager and company?

Yes, poets, philosophers and artists. Proudly "unproductive". :)

Ah, History analysis and political sience also seems to be "unemployed and economically unproductive"...
Human Rights are also highly economically unproductive.  Not to speak about Sex, certainly a waste of economically productive time...
:zzz:

As snoring.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: krake on 2015-11-08, 14:23:44

Not to speak about Sex, certainly a waste of economically productive time...

Not if done 'properly' the church way... (without rubber johnny or other tricks)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-11-10, 04:05:26
I'm sure that in the time of the Pope who died after several weeks (decent one before that John Paul knuckle-dragger) and was investigating the Vatican Bank corruption was surprised. Seems it had a big share investement in Italy's condom production!   :yikes:
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2015-11-11, 21:15:01
I guess it's all about what pays.

At any rate, if one can believe in gods, one can pay attention to popes.

I've given up on both.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-11-11, 22:14:29
Speaking about Baltic States, I read that Estonian Airlines stopped flying. Nice stewardesses they had.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2015-11-12, 04:01:10
Routes die, airlines die
You'll die as well
I know that which never dies
Competition over European skies

Or: Estonian Airlines is dead, long live Estonian Airlines.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-11-12, 05:52:48
...uber alles...? :)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-11-13, 04:34:19
On your giving up subject jimbro that is to my mind, unfortunate but then I lead a more active life. Got my hiking boots and the bicycle is next Southern man. Inside too much can make one a narrower hermit!
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2015-12-15, 17:00:33
What's going on in Canada:
Canadian PM Trudeau: Baltic Nations Are "Not A Thing" (http://upnorth.eu/canadian-pm-trudeau-baltic-nations-are-not-a-thing/)
Quote

In a filmed promo clip uploaded to the Twitter account of an editor at Canada's Maclean's Magazine on Monday, new Canadian PM, Justin Trudeau, was asked which of the Baltic nations is his favourite. Trudeau answered, saying "that's not a thing".

In addition to the Baltic States being Canada's NATO partners, there are over 100,000 Canadians of Baltic heritage.

Trudeau has had numerous challenges with foreign policy gaffes. Earlier in 2015 he was unable to identify what NATO's Article 5 was when asked by reporters and later mocked Russia's invasion of Ukraine as a dispute over hockey.

Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-12-19, 14:28:56
No one ever speaks about Groenland...
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2015-12-19, 16:51:20

No one ever speaks about Groenland...

Greenland is a Danish colony (colony is a discouraged word, but as long as there's no apt replacement, I will use it). I saw a documentary according to which Danish men can pass their military service by skiing across Greenland - two men on skis, a tent and some more equipment. The whole affair takes two months - most of it preparation, training and then a week's ride on ice (or was it two weeks). There's a branch of tourism on Greenland where tourists replicate this feat.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-12-19, 18:19:05
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FhPc9ogj.png&hash=73f62ba5e1145cecd7df9fcb4d086c45" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/hPc9ogj.png)
Strange flag Groenland has. Very Yin and Yang.
It seems they aren't a colony but an "autonomous country" whatever that is...
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2015-12-19, 19:32:19
It seems they aren't a colony but an "autonomous country" whatever that is...

I imagine the three countries that make up the Danish Realm to be quite similar in principle to the four countries that make up the Kingdom of the Netherlands. (And let's not forget about the four that make up the United Kingdom, except that they're a little closer together.) In practice it's probably also not unlike the status of e.g. the Azores and Madeira.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2015-12-19, 20:19:18
In short, colonies. There's clearly the main/centre versus other/periphery relationship in every case, historically conqueror versus conquered. The word for it used to be colony. Since there's no other word invented for this meanwhile, the word for it is still colony.

In 13th century, Pope Innocentius III announced Northern Crusades. Germand and Danes conquered Livonia (Latvia) and Estonia. Swedes conquered Finland. That's how colonisation worked at that time.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-12-19, 21:31:18
In short, colonies. There's clearly the main/centre versus other/periphery relationship in every case, historically conqueror versus conquered. The word for it used to be colony. Since there's no other word invented for this meanwhile, the word for it is still colony.

Yes, I agree. "Autonomous country" it's a farse. Real countries don't needs adjectives. "Country" says it all.

The only advancement in this area was made by the Portuguese "Estado Novo" when we started calling to colonies "ultramarine provinces", integrant parts of the Nation. But, of course, you're not aware of this nor I expect you to be.
In 13th century, Pope Innocentius III announced Northern Crusades. Germand and Danes conquered Livonia (Latvia) and Estonia. Swedes conquered Finland. That's how colonisation worked at that time.

Ahh, the good times. When even pagans obeyed to the Pope...  :)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2015-12-20, 11:38:06
In short, colonies.

We tend to think of colonies as non-self-governing entities. Of course there are degrees of everything, but in any case the former colonies have become decreasingly that which we think of when we say "colony" over the past half century.

The only advancement in this area was made by the Portuguese "Estado Novo" when we started calling to colonies "ultramarine provinces", integrant parts of the Nation. But, of course, you're not aware of this nor I expect you to be.

Bonaire, Sint Eustatius, and Saba are municipalities within the Netherlands (the country).

Yes, I agree. "Autonomous country" it's a farse. Real countries don't needs adjectives. "Country" says it all.

The countries that make up the Kingdom of the Netherlands are just called countries. Looking at Danish Wikipedia, keeping in mind I don't speak Danish:

Quote from: https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kongeriget_Danmark
Kongeriget Danmark (eller Danmarks Rige) er et konstitutionelt monarki, som består af Danmark i det nordlige Europa og statens to selvstyrende områder: øgruppen Færøerne i Nordatlanten og øen Grønland, som geografisk hører til det nordamerikanske kontinent men geopolitisk til Europa.

The Kingdom of Denmark (also called the Danish Realm) is a constitutional monarchy, which consists of Denmark ... and the state's two self-governing (selvstyrende) territories/regions (områder).

The reason I opt to view this as territories or regions for the time being is that Denmark itself is called a "land" (country) on Danish Wikipedia, the plural of which is "lande". Presumably it's felt that "territory" implies too little autonomy compared to country, but they may not be full "lande" the way e.g. Curaçao is indeed a land (this time Dutch, not Danish, and it definitely means country).
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-12-20, 13:42:16
To me an independent Country is a Nation, meaning that it needs to be three things: a sovereign territory, with a sovereign People and a sovereign State. It helps to have it's own language...
The territory doesn't needs to be necessarily adjacent.

Colonies are a different matter. Starting with that a colony is not a country (at least while it is a colony).
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2015-12-20, 15:10:50

In short, colonies.

We tend to think of colonies as non-self-governing entities. Of course there are degrees of everything, but in any case the former colonies have become decreasingly that which we think of when we say "colony" over the past half century.

"We" meaning you colonisers? Because to me (belonging to a regularly/periodically colonised people) the "self-governing" aspect is totally irrelevant. "Self-governing" is a ludicrous concept invented and granted by a central government, whereas the thing that really matters is independence.

A colony is not defined by a degree of self-government or lack of it. It's defined by the relationship to the mainland/motherland. When such a relationship exists, then it's a colony. When there's no such relationship, i.e. the country is independent, then it's not a colony.

Renaming a former colony to "land" or "country" as if on a par with the mainland (which is also called "land" or "country") makes the colonial relationship between the mainland and periphery ambiguous. This only serves to wipe the colonial past under the rug, while keeping it in effect in practice. It makes the colonisers feel they are not colonisers anymore. Self-deception.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2015-12-20, 15:27:57
The Norse settlements in Greenland and Canada were classic colonies. The islands (Iceland, Faroe, Shetland, and the rest) one by one came under direct control of the Norwegian crown, though they de facto had significant independence. When Norway came under control of the Danish crown, so did these territories, some which were subsequently pawned off to the Scottish crown. When Denmark picked the wrong side in the Napoleonic wars, Norway, but not the territories, was lost to the Swedish king (a French Napoleonic lieutenant promoted to royalty after Sweden lost Finland to Russia). 

The original colonies on Greenland failed, so Denmark recolonised the island. Norwegians later tried to occupy parts of Greenland (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erik_the_Red%27s_Land), unsuccessfully.

The Faroe Islands and Greenland are both one vote away from independence. The US in particular has eyed Greenland for a long time, as a buffer state in case of a future conflict with Canada no doubt. An independent Greenland, and their 50,000 inhabitants, could easily fall into the US sphere of influence.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2015-12-20, 15:31:46
Ahh, the good times. When even pagans obeyed to the Pope...   :)


Yes, the Roman Catholic period in Scandinavian history. Lots of conquest on religious terms and forcible conversions with fire and iron.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-12-20, 15:47:16

Ahh, the good times. When even pagans obeyed to the Pope...   :)


Yes, the Roman Catholic period in Scandinavian history. Lots of conquest on religious terms and forcible conversions with fire and iron.
I presume natives were pacifists...
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2015-12-20, 16:35:06
Renaming a former colony to "land" or "country" as if on a par with the mainland (which is also called "land" or "country") makes the colonial relationship between the mainland and periphery ambiguous. This only serves to wipe the colonial past under the rug, while keeping it in effect in practice. It makes the colonisers feel they are not colonisers anymore. Self-deception.

A significantly more accurate way to define what I (as a stand-in for the Dutch/Belgians/French/English) mean by "colony" is the term wingewest. Gewest means territory, and I think win should be fairly self-evident. It is, in short, a territory on which foreign rule is imposed and its purpose is to provide profit of some kind to the motherland, typically in the form of resources (e.g. coal, oil, cotton) or money (which is basically still resources except you sell them instead of using them yourself). Take away the lack of autonomy, remove the profit, and you haven't got a colony in any kind of traditional sense.

As far as the renaming and whatnot goes, the respective things that happened (some islands to become municipalities within the Netherlands, others to become countries within the Netherlands but without de jure independence from the Netherlands) were the result of what is supposed to represent the will of the local people. That is, they had a vote on it and chose to become countries within the kingdom. The only thing I can tell you is that there are preciously few Netherlandic Dutch people around there nowadays, which incidentally is another difference with a traditional colony, which would have a constant stream of fresh administrators etc. coming in from the motherland.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-12-20, 20:55:58
Aye but when those Pagans obeyed the Pope is was usually due to terrible violence. Even up to when Italy was forcibly united the then Vatican State which had more territory was covered with a violent military and Police State style so the new United Kingdom of Italy did do something positive! The one consolation for shrinking the violent Papal State was that they no longer got boiled in oil or torn to bits. They just modernised those things.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2015-12-21, 05:40:56

Take away the lack of autonomy, remove the profit, and you haven't got a colony in any kind of traditional sense.

So, when the territory has autonomy, nominal or perhaps even substantial, and it provides no other profit than merely serving as a possession to the motherland, then it's not a colony? What is it then? If the answer is none better than the vaguest and broadest "land" or such, it's not an answer. Really, as long as the motherland versus possession or mainland versus periphery relationship is there, it's reasonable to call it a colony.
 

As far as the renaming and whatnot goes, the respective things that happened (some islands to become municipalities within the Netherlands, others to become countries within the Netherlands but without de jure independence from the Netherlands) were the result of what is supposed to represent the will of the local people. That is, they had a vote on it and chose to become countries within the kingdom. The only thing I can tell you is that there are preciously few Netherlandic Dutch people around there nowadays, which incidentally is another difference with a traditional colony, which would have a constant stream of fresh administrators etc. coming in from the motherland.

That's what colonies have become these days. In terms of administration, they are more a burden than a source of easy income. Often enough the only economic potential they have now is tourism. And as Jax said, there are places like this one vote away from independence, while others have nominal independence. This doesn't change the fact that for the time being they are colonies or, if you like, former colonies, but it's shorter to say colonies without any loss of accuracy of meaning.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-12-21, 09:40:22
For defining what a colony is it doesn't matter at all what the colony is. What matters is what the "colonizer" says.
It's a colony, it's a colony. No, it's a hwrehfqekfhcwe, than a hwrehfqekfhcwe will be.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2015-12-21, 11:22:18
This doesn't change the fact that for the time being they are colonies or, if you like, former colonies, but it's shorter to say colonies without any loss of accuracy of meaning.

That seems little different than saying that because a few of the aforementioned countries are monarchies they are basically the same as France under le Roi-Soleil without any loss of accuracy or meaning. Of course in spite of that it's reasonable enough in principle to say that a colony in the ancient world generally means one thing, a colony in the Age of Discovery another, and a colony in the twenty-first century something different as well. The existence of a kind of center versus periphery relationship would be their logical commonality. You're welcome to try to change English practice, but in the meantime prepare to communicate with a lack of clarity. :P
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2015-12-21, 12:44:23

You're welcome to try to change English practice, but in the meantime prepare to communicate with a lack of clarity. :P

Actually, I greatly win in clarity and brevity, when you compare "colony" with "land" or "territory". The latter are broad ambiguous words requiring lots of clarifying context in order to achieve any specificity of meaning. The former is specific all by itself. "Colony" may seem anachronistic, but it's well-defined and straight to the point.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2015-12-21, 14:46:10
"Colony" may seem anachronistic, but it's well-defined and straight to the point.

It's precisely because the word colony is well-defined that these aren't colonies. When an obese person loses weight they may not be skinny just yet, but there comes a point when they cease being obese. The center/periphery relationship of a country like Curaçao hasn't really been de jure with the Netherlands ever since becoming a country and has been de facto primarily with its larger neighbor Venezuela for quite a bit longer than that. Perhaps it requires de jure independence like Suriname decided to acquire in the 1970s so shed the last bit of lingering fat, but to insist that Curaçao is still obese is not in the interest of clarity. Instead, it's in the interest of anti-colonial rhetoric. Perhaps such rhetoric is well-deserved; perhaps it's quite effective (after all, it's made me think more about something so far removed from my daily life than I have in years); but rhetoric it is.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2015-12-21, 15:18:09

"Colony" may seem anachronistic, but it's well-defined and straight to the point.

It's precisely because the word colony is well-defined that these aren't colonies. When an obese person loses weight they may not be skinny just yet, but there comes a point when they cease being obese.

This analogy does not apply. Being obese versus skinny is an assessment compared to an independent standard of normalcy or averageness, but being a colony is a relationship to a motherland or mainland, regardless of what's going on in the world otherwise. Being a colony is the fact that the country has a motherland which exploits it or determines its autonomy/independence.

Curaçao is an island in South America that is politically subject to the Netherlands in Europe. That's a pretty clear colonial relationship. Can Curaçao simply lose weight to cease to be a colony? You are saying that colonies have ceased to be colonies by mere passage of time. Really, it takes a severance of the colonial relationship to end the status of colony and to gain political and economic self-reliance and independence.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2015-12-21, 17:33:55
Being a colony is the fact that the country has a motherland which exploits it or determines its autonomy/independence.

By that definition Curaçao and the other former Dutch Antilles do not seem to be colonies. Curaçao chooses to be one of the four countries that currently constitute the Kingdom of the Netherlands. It could also freely choose to leave the kingdom. The Netherlands could similarly leave the Kingdom of the Netherlands, for example to become a republic, leaving the Kingdom to the other three constituent countries -- wouldn't that be fun? ;)

You are saying that colonies have ceased to be colonies by mere passage of time.

No, the primary aspect is autonomy and self-determination. An real colony couldn't possibly be "one vote away from independence." It would need something like an armed revolution. The passage of time plays a role too, of course, in that you might say this autonomy was merely granted by the colonizer back in 1955. But the same autonomy that came with being a constituent country has now been the norm for two generations.

Really, it takes a severance of the colonial relationship to end the status of colony and to gain political and economic self-reliance and independence.

But what if a de jure change wouldn't de facto change much if anything? I mean that both ways. In the former colony of Belgian Congo, most of the industry and such was still controlled by Belgian companies. I believe the common term for that type of relationship is neocolonialism. In contrast, the in your view still-colony of Curaçao is effectively completely independent except for its disproportionally strong navy. Note economically, for example, that Curaçao's currency is the Guilder, not the Euro. (And a Netherlands Antilean Guilder that has been separate from the Dutch Guilder since 1940, mind you, not since the introduction of the Euro in 2001.)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2015-12-21, 18:19:26

Curaçao chooses to be one of the four countries that currently constitute the Kingdom of the Netherlands. It could also freely choose to leave the kingdom.

In other words, like Faeroe and Greenland, Curaçao is one vote away from independence. Until then, it's a colony. "Curaçao chooses" and "freely chooses" is false. Did Curaçao choose to be colonised originally? No, it was captured by the will of the Netherlands alone. The same way, it has been given the freedom to vote for independence by the will of the Netherlands alone. Curaçao didn't choose either of this.


The Netherlands could similarly leave the Kingdom of the Netherlands, for example to become a republic, leaving the Kingdom to the other three constituent countries -- wouldn't that be fun? ;)

When Curaçao leaves the Kingdom of the Netherlands, there will still be Kingdom of the Netherlands. When Kingdom of the Netherlands "leaves" it, there will be no more Kingdom of the Netherlands. The Netherlands will morph into a different regime. That's the difference between colony/periphery and motherland/mainland/heartland.

Similarly, as long as peripheral republics were leaving Soviet Union, Soviet Union was still standing. But when Russia left it, Soviet Union collapsed, because Russia was its heart.


No, the primary aspect is autonomy and self-determination. An real colony couldn't possibly be "one vote away from independence." It would need something like an armed revolution. The passage of time plays a role too, ...

The separation may be violent/barbaric or civilised/diplomatic, it doesn't change the fact that it's a separation, a severance of the colonial relationship. And it doesn't matter in what age it occurs. These days the colonisers like to use their fuzzy politically correct language, it won't change the fact that they are colonisers who historically conquered and currently still keep colonies.


Really, it takes a severance of the colonial relationship to end the status of colony and to gain political and economic self-reliance and independence.

But what if a de jure change wouldn't de facto change anything? I mean that both ways. In the former colony of Belgian Congo, most of the industry and such was still controlled by Belgian companies. I believe the common term for that type of relationship is neocolonialism. In contrast, the in your view still-colony of Curaçao is effectively completely independent except for its disproportionally strong navy. Note economically, for example, that Curaçao's currency is the Guilder, not the Euro. (And a Netherlands Antilean Guilder that has been separate from the Dutch Guilder since 1940, mind you, not since the introduction of the Euro in 2001.)

It can be interesting to discuss the various degrees and forms of colonisation and post- and neo-colonialism, but let's be clear - they are all variations of colonisation. Great Britain has the longest and widest colonial history and it has employed very different approaches in different places, some encounters turned out rather friendly, as long as they managed to dupe the locals into believing it was an equal business relationship, but it was actually all colonisation.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2016-01-29, 06:55:44

Speaking about Baltic States, I read that Estonian Airlines stopped flying. Nice stewardesses they had.

As long as Estonian Air operated, I preferred to start my flights anywhere else but Tallinn. Flights from Tallinn were somehow considerably more expensive than to go to Helsinki or Riga or Vilnius and start there. Perhaps this can be explained by the fact that the long-serving CEO of Estonian Air, Tero Taskila, a Finn, was consistently earning the highest CEO salaries in Estonia while his airlines company made heavy losses. The next CEO for a few years, Jan Olof Palmer, a Swede, was advertised as a saviour for the company, even though his career up to that point suggested a master of bankruptcies. The suggestion proved correct and the company has been liquidated now. On the upside, I see now that flights starting at Tallinn airport have become affordable.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-01-29, 07:42:59
Are you aware, ersi, that no American airlines have every been "profitable"... :)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2016-01-29, 14:26:58
As I understand it, a certain infamous Protestant organization in Scotland that has a fondness for the color Orange will begin it's marches again within the next two months.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2016-01-29, 20:16:57

Are you aware, ersi, that no American airlines have every been "profitable"... :)

I am aware that Americans do these things wrong as a matter of principle.

National airlines are not meant to be profitable. Insofar as they are a strategic function, they have to be there. Just like digestion or breathing has to be there, no matter how inefficient or unprofitable. Does it make sense to economise at the expense of your own digestion? Does it make sense to outsource your breathing so you can spare your own lung muscles?

The downfall of Estonian Air followed from the idea that the activity has to be economically efficient and they took a CEO who promised corresponding results - in exchange for egregious money of course. In the end, everybody lost painfully. Not even Latvians are this stupid. It's always embarrassing when Latvians are smarter...
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-01-29, 23:49:26
I am aware that Americans do these things wrong as a matter of principle.
Ah! I see you've caught Howie's disease... :)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-01-31, 02:39:46
This getting ridiculous. The same person repeating this stuff when it is as obvious as the sun that this is and ENGLISH LANGUAGE forum for goodness sake!  :down:
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-02-01, 23:15:17
National airlines are not meant to be profitable. Insofar as they are a strategic function, they have to be there. Just like digestion or breathing has to be there, no matter how inefficient or unprofitable. Does it make sense to economise at the expense of your own digestion? Does it make sense to outsource your breathing so you can spare your own lung muscles?

Poor Estonians... you really don't realize what is waiting for you...
Forget rationality and national values and say hello to serfdom. Wellcome to (German's) Europe.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-02-02, 00:09:39
Washington was wise to advise us to keep clear of European "entanglements"... :) Your squabbles will never cease, and your prejudices will persist till doomsday!
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-02-02, 07:20:27
Eh? When did America not get entangled in other places and their business?  For Heaven's sake!
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2016-02-05, 20:20:49

Eh? When did America not get entangled in other places and their business?  For Heaven's sake!

The UK, from 1939-1942.   :coffee:

*sips a cup of Tetley tea while waiting for Howie's humorous response, being as how he knows I am right*
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-02-07, 05:45:52
The UK, from 1939-1942.    :coffee:
I think "the Colonel" means something like "Be careful what you wish for..." :)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: krake on 2016-02-07, 11:27:45

The UK, from 1939-1942.    :coffee:
I think "the Colonel" means something like "Be careful what you wish for..." :)

Different minds, different ways to construe even a simple message... :)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2016-02-07, 17:07:41
Mr. Howie is an avid follower and admirer of Mr. Putin, who, if memory serves, invited himself into the Crimea and who has more recently been invited into western Ukraine.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-02-08, 07:55:44
Let's not forget Syria...
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2016-02-08, 12:54:00
Too many have been "invited" to Syria! Guess who...well, it's the dual red, white and blue.
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.brecorder.com%2Fimages%2F2013%2F10%2Frussia-us-flags.jpg&hash=31fb8038aa2529a009ec3181c53956a0" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.brecorder.com/images/2013/10/russia-us-flags.jpg)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: krake on 2016-02-08, 16:04:04

Too many have been "invited" to Syria! Guess who...well, it's the dual red, white and blue.

You mean invited themself, in breach with international law which evidently doesn't apply to everybody.
I can't recall Syria's still official government has invited so many...
BTW, Germany is also there with its reconnaissance jets. Probably for helping Turkey to hit Kurdish targets and for spying on Russians.
It seems that our slogan "No more war" turned into another "No more war without us".
---
Now sultan Erdogang is demanding Obama to chose between him, the high-profile NATO ally and the Kurds.
Stay tuned and watch who will be duped next.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-02-08, 19:03:36
Firstly it is very obvious that jimbro is still stuffed with his time in the Cold War era. What utter nonsense from an intelligent mind that Putin wants western Ukraine. Western Ukraine has a very unsavoury history and would remind him and other not very wide ex-colonist minds that western Ukraine was where there was a very strong support for the Nazis in WW2. They had their own special police units AND SS sections as well and even in today's it still mark SS heroes and a special memorial to a leader of the time. Even today we see neo-Nazis in the government and out in the streets. Putin has never by any declaration nor hint indicated anything on wanting Ukraine so the argument is silly. Indeed the Ukraine is badly run, only partly democratic has neo-Nazis in government and the place is a financial and shortage mess.ess and debt. It even owes Russia millions in unpaid power supply.

Crimea was taken and dumped in Ukraine by a Soviet era dictator and is back where it has always wanted to be and that is Russia. Obama and pals scoffed at the Crimean Referendum but were all for the Referendum that seen a province of Serbia voted out of Serbia because the US were behind that one so that made it okay. Indeed it supported the Kosovo Liberation Army which we all know got funding from drug money.  For a country like America with tens of millions of poor, hundreds of thousands losing homes a political system run by billionaires and pointing the moral finger at someone else is so not only absurd but totally unprincipled.  Now the great hypocrite country is extending the military budget (pleases the money barons) to intimidate Russia because the USA does not like any place they cannot control.

You can count Russian bases on the fingers of a hand but who spends half the global military bill and hundreds of bases. Unfortunately jimbro's mindset is on fairness not a lone one but part of that Cold War mind they grew up with and easily fall into the hands of the money barons who run the country and brain the people. Why anyone of general sense would want to own Ukraine is head shaking. It is not only a badly run country but deep in debt, racked by misuse and economic dread. As for the Colonel's attempt at being subtle and try and make a would-be point, I would say that without realising it he shows the ignorance of the ordinary. Stop reading comics boy!
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: krake on 2016-02-08, 19:54:48
Speaking about the Ukraine, a documentary worth to be watched in its full lenght:
Masks of revolution (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=30e_1454796647)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2016-02-09, 22:09:00
You mean invited themself, in breach with international law which evidently doesn't apply to everybody.

Sadly, I wasn't consulted. Were I consulted from time to time this would be a much better country and world.
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/avs/avatar_35_1393905738.png)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-02-10, 06:42:04
I read what you say, RJ (https://thedndsanctuary.eu/index.php?topic=481.msg51330#msg51330). But I can only give it the credence it deserves...
Now the great hypocrite country
That's your whole focus, isn't it, RJ? Since your "country" was inconsequential before you were born, you feel others are poseurs... :)
(Sort-of, like your folk who wear kilts and squeak on bagpipes... No true Scotsmen!) Your country would do well, against savages; unfortunately, there are few of those left that you could meet -- as an equal power.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-02-12, 19:57:25
Ah someone from a country that had half a million men in Vietnam and made a damn mes of it. That was in-between soldiers going bananas on drugs and shooting each other Oakdale!  The Commonwealth we created after the days of the BE is still there and a great thing but your imperialism depends on corruption, destabilising anyone who won;t accept your flawed way of doing things. It is all about corporate money that runs America and the money it makes overseas. As I have oft pointed out that any country that does not bow the knee to the monny men who run the country then disrupting a country of invading it is the next thing. You have been in a constant state of war since WW2.

Now the money men have organised another slow move against Russia because that particular nation will not succumb to your malpractices. More bases, crawling closer to Russia and all by the corporate industry men. You would get more respect if you spent less on military excuses and snidey policies against anyone who won't bend the knee to a system you have which treats it's own citizens in a disgraceful way. When one looks inside and what is done outside by your money barons it is hypocrisy and a reason why the present political election mess is as it is.

I am of the opinion that your mindset is one of self-aggrandisement and well expected when there are few sober times to get out out and unfortunately get lost in your own Trump brain confinement! Being Scots I am fortunate to be able to immediately see there are sensible Yanks on the forum.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2016-02-14, 15:37:04
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.telegraph.co.uk%2Fmultimedia%2Farchive%2F03574%2FViola-Beach-5_3574534b.jpg&hash=cad5682eb9350758652e25547a44c4f7" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03574/Viola-Beach-5_3574534b.jpg)

Glocal news. Södertälje canal bridge killed the music (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/12156399/Indie-band-Viola-Beach-killed-after-car-plunges-off-bridge-in-Sweden.html). British band's car raced through open bridge and took a plunge about 15 minutes walk from here.

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thelocal.se%2Fuserdata%2Fimages%2F1455460678_Bridges_of_So%25CC%2588derta%25CC%2588lje.jpg&hash=0f5be6433eb295859318c1ec62dac448" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.thelocal.se/userdata/images/1455460678_Bridges_of_So%CC%88derta%CC%88lje.jpg)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-02-21, 07:41:14
Since Howie keeps going on about his nation's "wider" democracy, this (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/21/eu-refendum-tory-party-uk-at-stake) is worth a read...

I'll let you-all determine what adjectives are appropriate! :)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-02-23, 06:24:16
I will make allowances for you Oakdale because your country is most certainly not a wide democracy and tens  of millions of Americans are suffering because of it. Corporates controlling 2 big parties funded by them is comparable to a democracy??  :faint:
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-02-23, 07:58:26
Your "wide" democracy seems to let more than a third of your population "fall" into poverty -- but the levels of affluence (except for your politicians and judges and bankers and such... :) ) that is common "over there" is so low that few would know the difference.
So: Envy's all you've got! :)

Being poor in the U.S. is like being upper-middle class, in Glasgow. But I'm sure -for most of them- their "wider" democracy is a palliative...
Then again, maybe not. It might eventually occur to them that their system of welfare-state-ism is failing, and will continue to do so; and should be reconsidered...
You know, on the basis of a "wide" democracy... :)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2016-02-23, 18:26:10
From the Daily Mail:
Quote
An English colleague was prompted to send Captain Maughan a letter telling him: 'Your country's (Scotland) a welfare state paid for by the English middle classes.'


Once the second independence vote takes place, it's hard to say how welfare will fare. Of course, that vote has yet to be scheduled. We'll have to wait until Nicola Sturgeon moves forward.

My heart is pounding!
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-02-24, 02:24:03
Of course your heart is pounding jimbro as you are an emotional ex-colonist....

Truth on the sneaky comment is that in 1707 the Union of Parliaments saved Scotland as the attempt at colonisation stuff via the Daring scheme just about bankrupted up here. I well appreciate that there has been for ages a national government (Barnet Formula) that is a financial help to this small country. What does your lot in the would-be" greatest country in the world" do to help the tens of millions of poor, static wage earners and so on? Nothing.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-02-24, 07:26:32
this small country
You're only small because you lost your nerve, boy-o! I reckon it was before your generation, but yours certainly did nothing to regain it... ("Quit you like men" has such an ironic take, RJ; I won't belittle the fairer sex by comparing you to them: They, at least, have a place in the world and a necessary function.) Yours is -it seems to me- that of a parasite.
And you're proud of it! Do you know what that says, about you? :(
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-02-25, 04:16:25
Groan. A tipsy Yank comes on here to snipe at my country. Not once over the years on Opera then here have I ever got direct answers to the list of negatives on your country. Much of your history has a good import from Scots and more damn principled one than say the Irish or Italians. Of course you have a big country of course and the negative side is unfortunately too many big heads in it as well.Creating wars, misuse of politics, damn ignoring the millions there who are suffering and so on.  The millions f decent ex-colonist folk who have been loyal have also been misused, lied to and their loyalty fiddled with. England helped create the days of Empire but the proportion of Scots who administered it was well above the game. Many Scots did so much for you place but it got corrupted by, well corruption on vast scales.

Mind you, I am aware that one cannot put all Yanks in the same hermit mind you have they are too busy struggling to keep going and deserve better. So for all the boasting about your land from your warped brain just look at the history concocted by your corporate misuses of the decent people. Constant wars since 1945 and although imperialism has slipped into history you are getting into massive debts trying to keep your alive. In truth you could learn many basics from a number of small countries that are not financial, crime ridden, military police styled cops  with constant mass murders (nearly one for every day of a year) along with a 5-figure total of the gun dead!

The size of a country is nothing it is what goes on and you had better look closer at yours before you mouth elsewhere and make a fool if the decent ex-colonists her and well, locally!  :P

ps. my quotation is from the Bible.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-02-25, 05:44:51
Groan. A tipsy Yank comes on here to snipe at my country.
No: A tipsy Yank responds to rank calumny from an old, ignorant bigot.
Not once over the years on Opera then here have I ever got direct answers to the list of negatives on your country.
And not once have you ever responded adequately to your county's failings... Other than to swerve and attack someone else! What does that say, RJ?
damn ignoring the millions there who are suffering and so on
Have you taken in any Syrian refugees, yourself, Howie? Indeed, what have you done in your community, since your government stopped paying you to be a do-gooder?
Many Scots did so much for you[r] place but it got corrupted by, well corruption on vast scales.
Learned from the best, didn't we? :)
Oh! We corrupted the Scots? :(
Constant wars since 1945
I'm pretty sure you and your European friends started that one... :) (Or are you still claiming that The Big One was the "War to end all wars"? Do you at least recognize that that one was stupid, as well? Nah.) Our (and others') small wars do much less harm than your lot did, when you had the power.

On a final note, apparently you think a "hermit" is someone you don't see regularly... Seems about right! :) I'm grateful for your absence. The gap between our ages would keep me from punching you; but I'd want to!
You're a Trump kind of guy, RJ: All mouth...
(You can work that into the Elections thread... I give it to you, gratis! Have fun. :) )
ps. my quotation is from the Bible
What quotation...?  Where? (I'm assuming you know how to cite the Bible. But, then, you haven't shown yourself capable of marking a quotation -- from any source. There's a key on your keyboard --one of the many you routinely ignore!-- that would help; but I don't expect you to find it... :) )
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2016-02-25, 17:32:37

Groan. A tipsy Yank comes on here to snipe at my country. Not once over the years on Opera then here have I ever got direct answers to the list of negatives on your country. Much of your history has a good import from Scots and more damn principled one than say the Irish or Italians. Of course you have a big country of course and the negative side is unfortunately too many big heads in it as well.Creating wars, misuse of politics, damn ignoring the millions there who are suffering and so on.  The millions f decent ex-colonist folk who have been loyal have also been misused, lied to and their loyalty fiddled with. England helped create the days of Empire but the proportion of Scots who administered it was well above the game. Many Scots did so much for you place but it got corrupted by, well corruption on vast scales.

Mind you, I am aware that one cannot put all Yanks in the same hermit mind you have they are too busy struggling to keep going and deserve better. So for all the boasting about your land from your warped brain just look at the history concocted by your corporate misuses of the decent people. Constant wars since 1945 and although imperialism has slipped into history you are getting into massive debts trying to keep your alive. In truth you could learn many basics from a number of small countries that are not financial, crime ridden, military police styled cops  with constant mass murders (nearly one for every day of a year) along with a 5-figure total of the gun dead!

The size of a country is nothing it is what goes on and you had better look closer at yours before you mouth elsewhere and make a fool if the decent ex-colonists her and well, locally!  :P

ps. my quotation is from the Bible.

Here is your direct answer:
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-02-26, 20:33:36
A long time I listed all the horrible hypocrisy in American history (twice I actually think) and not one was able to be dealt with. Instead there was the immature trying to find odd things elsewhere in the world instead. Terrible brained nationalism covered by being patriotic is laughable. The factual contradicts all the stuff you boast about at being the greatest. Many small countries do better than your lot! You lot live on boasting and getting lips turned up if the truth is shown.  :hat:
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-02-27, 03:49:09
(Mumbles some about motes and beams and eyes...)
Why, Howie, must every thread you post to become about what you perceive to be America's faults? You're familiar with the term "monomania"?
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-02-27, 23:39:16
No I don't perceptive America's faults just passingly it is the massive giant two-facedness! Boasting about everything being the greatest country and democracy. The imperialisms and way the place is run totally contradicts. If you were less show offs the easy sword play would be harder!
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-02-28, 01:45:56
What, only Scotsmen and Englishmen can be hypocrites? :) Well, okay; if you insist, I'll try and convince my countrymen that that is a slot entirely filled by others and is no longer available!
(I doubt I'll be successful... People are people. And governments are governments.)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-02-28, 03:05:52
Now don't you embarras your countrymen. There is NO country as nationalistic as your own! You like to dream of it as being patriotic butit is over the top nationalism. Flags everywhere except in toilets (oops, might give someone an idea!). In the world there is no other nation with so many military bases, spends half the global armaments bill, threatens countries that dare to experiment with ballistic weapons but is doing it themslves! You interfere everywhere under the dat old would-be political theology of the world policeman. That was conjured by guess who?? Trillions in debt things stagnating the poor in legions and so on. As a country you would get more respect if you stopped trying to run the damn world and left places alone. But nope anywhere that dares to not succumb to your corruption of democracy and rights is in for it.

There are a great many decent people but they have been manipulated increasingly over the years to suit the corporate string pullers. The lack of democracy is becoming inherent with the 2 parties who have carved the place up and I do feel for the many decents who. Why do you keep opening bases threaten people, creat wars and disturbance ever since 1945? That misuse of the word "security." That insults the decent people and in the old Opera forum I once said that if a settlement was created on Mars I would not be surprised if your controllers did not open a military base there for security. So start shutting bases, spend the money on your own people and the large numbers who ARE suffering and struggling. On my first visit I met a retired couple of journalists who said while waiting for a train from DC (me to NYC and them to Philly) if I was ever back to come and visit them and I did for 2 days. We had a very informative time and had the same on the trains I travelled on.  Even got to teaching the kids in a train coach songs and funny rhymes to keep them occupied. When I got off most in that coach waved at me. One lady during my second trip and on the Northeast (train) Corridor insisted on sharing coffe and sandwiches with me so i got on well with them all

A people and a system can and are often different. I dare say had I been around during the time before WW2 I could have had a great time in Germany and Italy for example but shake my head at the system.. So do get away from the Primary School thinking dear man (what you would call Junior Schhol) and face the hard facts of life!  8) :D
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-02-28, 04:23:08
There is NO country as nationalistic as your own!
Not even the British Empire (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Empire)...? :) (Or wee Scotland? Or Ireland? Or Germany? Or France? Or Russia?)
I suspect you just don't know the meaning of most of the words you use... Considering how well you use them, I can believe that.
Why do you keep opening bases threaten people, creat wars and disturbance ever since 1945?
Because...your lot got tired, and somebody had to do it? :) It seems like you (...as does Obama, et al.) will only be happy when the U.S. becomes as enfeebled as Great Britain...
As I've said before: Envy, on your part.

BTW: It wasn't America's "reaching" that undid your empire. It was your conflicts with Germany...
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-02-29, 00:30:18
You lot were seething as could be in the 1930's and determined to overtake the BE. We came round to accepting that the days of Empire were numbered but you folk are keeping your even though trillions in debt and millions of your population seeing nothing of all that "American Dream" codswallop! Even on things like flags for goodness sake! You probably beat the North Koreans, 3rd Reich, USSR days will all that over-the-top stuff I mention. Things like government buildings in D with not one routine flag but rows of them?? They are dashed well everywhere so are your people too immature to need that level of reminding of the immature nationalism masked as patriotic. We didn't practice that over the top nonsense and a flag did not appear in every classroom as we were not that daft we could not know what ours was!  Ah, maybe why there is that immaturity over the water?

Those that corporately control the ex-colonies have well brainwashed you with the ultra nationalism and as we gradually gave up control you brain deads spread bases everywhere, de-stabilised countries (long after colonial traditions) and that was more important than spending money on your own people their suffering, wide poverty and great lacking. We never took a stance to control the whole world but you DO as if some inbuilt right. Even the corporate flag industry must do well! :lol:
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-02-29, 01:28:57
So, according to you, what's going on in Scotland -- is that a certain Howie has an abiding animosity to the U.S., RJ? Good to know! One can't get that kind of information from the BBC or the Guardian... :)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2016-02-29, 19:19:12
We never took a stance to control the whole world but you DO as if some inbuilt right.

This is a map of the British Empire. It's a bit like Fiji taking over Africa, Greenland and China.
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fimg12.deviantart.net%2F3ae7%2Fi%2F2014%2F060%2F4%2F4%2Fbritish_empire_map_by_duke_nidhoggr-d77phii.jpg&hash=74a9dee03d95c158e5552c1db8fe8946" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://img12.deviantart.net/3ae7/i/2014/060/4/4/british_empire_map_by_duke_nidhoggr-d77phii.jpg)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-02-29, 23:41:08
This is a map of the British Empire.

Ignorant.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2016-03-01, 01:03:19
I wish we could place bets on here about if/when Scotland goes independent, after the UK votes to leave the EU.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-03-01, 04:01:22
Well there was a very inserting poll about two weeks ago that said that most Scots wanted to stay in Europe. However when they were asked would they want another Referendum on independence they overwhelming said no.  We practice democracy here Colonel and if there was an overwhelming clamour in a State in nutjobland all hell would break lose and not be allowed.

Oak, I would say this to you. The BBCNews and the Guardian are in the same corner. Lord Reith the great early pioneer of the BBC will be revolving past the speed limit in his grave.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-03-01, 04:08:10
Just keep paying your "telly tax" and watching "government TV"... :)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-03-02, 01:23:35
And you hermit - keep watching the corporate media controllery over there. I will give it a yes for being in control of the minds.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2016-03-02, 02:16:03

Well there was a very inserting poll about two weeks ago that said that most Scots wanted to stay in Europe. However when they were asked would they want another Referendum on independence they overwhelming said no.  We practice democracy here Colonel and if there was an overwhelming clamour in a State in nutjobland all hell would break lose and not be allowed.

Oak, I would say this to you. The BBCNews and the Guardian are in the same corner. Lord Reith the great early pioneer of the BBC will be revolving past the speed limit in his grave.

Care to post the link?

When the gov't goes bankrupt, it will not matter. I've said it before and I'll say it again; in the next 30-50 years the nation-states will fall. Scotland, Wales, England, and a united Ireland will be the reality, as will 50 independent states here.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-03-02, 04:02:28
That's extremely unlikely, Colonel... I suspect you've been reading too much dystopian fiction. :)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Luxor on 2016-03-02, 13:34:10
Care to post the link?


Obviously not this one.  ;)
SNP remains dominant while Brexit could swing Scots behind a second independence referendum 'Yes' vote (https://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/3699/SNP-remains-dominant-while-Brexit-could-swing-Scots-behind-a-second-independence-referendum-Yes-vote.aspx)


(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FgKyMNnA.png&hash=f362070feb632f8fb7490e2f832fc63a" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/gKyMNnA.png)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2016-03-02, 14:09:12

That's extremely unlikely, Colonel... I suspect you've been reading too much dystopian fiction. :)

No, actually been reading biographies of late. It seems unlikely now, yes, I agree, but a lot can and will change in 30-50 years.
Our currency will no longer be the world's reserve currency by then (heck, it may not be in 5 years). That has been the key to our monetary scheme/empire. When the monetary scheme/empire falls, there is no way to keep up the military bases that we have throughout the world.

That's not even mentioning domestic social disorder, some of which we are already experiencing.

In any of these cases, while you may fervently disagree, I think one thing you will agree with me on, is that a pessimist is only ever pleasantly surprised when he/she is proven wrong. :)

@Luxor: Thanks for the link!
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-03-02, 23:09:05
Our currency will no longer be the world's reserve currency by then (heck, it may not be in 5 years). That has been the key to our monetary scheme/empire. When the monetary scheme/empire falls, there is no way to keep up the military bases that we have throughout the world.

Well well, Americans (some of them) finally sees the light. I sincerely hope your line of thought can be the foundation for a New America.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2016-03-03, 09:58:54
The EU didn't want a UK split when the UK was part of the EU. If the UK were to leave they would be quite happy to let Scotland stay.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-03-03, 19:39:37
Expected that stuff from Luxor as he is a died in the wool tartanite. Every time that smart alec, Sturgeon rattles her tonsils she is a dancer. Any time in the Scots Parliament when she is challenged on issues that are flawed she comes out with the same tripe about she knows "there are challenges." The hard fact that that lot of moaners are found out  it is the usual diatribe so one would expect Luxor to dutifully follow the ame line! Brigadoonis alive and well.!

On the subject of the EU Referendum and that the Nats would want another Indy chance is very much open to question. The Poll I mentioned was on television news weeks ago and it made very clear that Scots did not want the Euro vote to start another get out of UK thing has been ignored by the Scottish National Nose-Pickers. On taxation, health and education issues and economics in general are a weakness for them. It is all bagpipe playing metal froth and emotional ranting.

Then in comes the Southern attempted maverick with the laugh that in years to come there will be 50 independent States over the pond. Yeah right and as much chance as me blowing kisses at smug mouth, Sturgeon. The real rulers of the ex-colonies will ensure that is a no-no and for a change in the imperial waste of money when there are so many Americans internally struggling that will only happen of the place goes belly up in debt or there is a second revolution.  :doh:
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2016-03-03, 19:46:34

in comes the Southern attempted maverick with the laugh that in years to come there will be 50 independent States over the pond. Yeah right and as much chance as me blowing kisses at smug mouth, Sturgeon. The real rulers of the ex-colonies will ensure that is a no-no and for a change in the imperial waste of money when there are so many Americans internally struggling that will only happen of the place goes belly up in debt or there is a second revolution.  :doh:

Given that your country is a former imperial power, turned imperial-has-been, your lot should have extensive knowledge of what happens when your country can no longer control the world's monetary system, dictate foreign affairs, etc.

Our empire, in terms of money and military might, is 8 times what your lot's was. As such, it's fall will be more spectacular. We have much more land than your lot do. When bankruptcy comes, it will be impossible to keep all 50 together.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Luxor on 2016-03-03, 19:47:50
Expected that stuff from Luxor

What stuff is that then?
I provided a link to a poll and nothing more. Something you are obviously incapable of doing.
So either put up or shut up.

Also quit your trolling, it is becoming tiresome reading the same garbage over and over.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2016-03-04, 12:48:44



Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-03-04, 15:34:37
Boy, oh boy accusing me of trolling? You cannot answer the truth and try to be hoty toty. Handy beacuse the truh hrits. It can be education, health service, economics, oil loss and bodyswerved. If you cannot face the hard facts of life you should sod off and not get involved. Youlot try to  be above the truth and sneer but you are just a bunch of modern Jacobites. Even during the Referendum there were constant and repeated shocking tactics at street meetings and so on. Even the latest midden about having a BBC Scotland revised news set up in a poll has found to have got a negative response. Even that mouth  Sturgeon had to be dragged into condemning some of the incidents seen on television news and on the Internet. Your mindset do not like getting direct points and try to sniffingly give the stance you are above such a direction as I have pointed out.

Even that waste of time newspaper the "National" is scraping the bottom circulation-wise fter all the fuss a year ago. Your political thinking is in the corner of emotional Scots and accusing me of trolling shows how silly you are being. The hard truth is a different thing for all the emotional guff your corner gives so if you cannot face real life either say nothing or try answering. To use the word troll shows how vacant you are in practice. Even at the Referendum Scots who were No supporters were being called scum, sworn at and and called traitors. Now that was interesting when you conside the numbers who voted No so they wre all trators.

Trying to show you are so dashed above the facts of life only adds to that emotional nonsense so slip away and play your bagpipes boy!  :knight:
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Luxor on 2016-03-04, 16:05:20
away and play your bagpipes boy!

Ooh! Did you think that one up yourself.
Oh no silly me, I forgot that you have nothing original to say, so that's not possible.  :doh:
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-03-04, 21:47:05
Quote
In Internet slang, a troll is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion, often for their own amusement.
(from Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll))

Let's see: In a thread titled What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland? you harangue America for her faults... In a thread about our posting habits at DnD, you harangue America for her faults... In a thread about the decline of religion in Europe, you harangue America for her faults...
In fact, Howie, I can't remember a thread where you didn't harangue America for her faults... As you see them, of course! :)
How do you not fit the definition of "troll"?
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-03-05, 04:31:45
The word is being misused and not just by you by the way. I stand by what I have repeatedly said about a list of very much in the face negatives about the country because it boasts as does it's politicians with the brained sheering them on that everything about the place is brilliant.The word 'principle' is ignored. In the Opera Forum I gave a list of the most glaring contradictions to that constitution and the glaring two-faced historical and modern hypocrisy. Not one gave an answer to any one of them but instead danced round the list or searched a round for something else elsewhere rather than try and demolish my stance. In doing the items in this forum you would have thought they might get off the bum and try and dismiss the matter but nope. Instead you get the troll rubbish and the even more diabolic fact they cannot answer.

A while back I said I had been interviewed for 15 minutes by BBCRadio had a chapter in a bok written on me from someone from a university held public office, met important people, spoke at public meetings and so on. The one thing I do challenge myself on is why I bothered to continue bothering with this forum. Having spent time with some of the hoi-polloi here in mental straight jackets has been gracious of me and I will sit back and relax when the butler brings in a nice glass of diet Irn Bru.  :drunk:
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2016-03-06, 11:02:15
Vasaloppet (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasaloppet) is going on right now.




Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-03-06, 12:28:02
Ants in pilgrimage to the Goddess Fitness.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-03-07, 02:00:18
Haha. Many people have said Sweden can be a boring place so maybe a local effort to do well, something?!
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2016-03-07, 10:37:12
@jax

Are you somewhere in the video?
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-03-24, 12:08:48
Not technically in the Baltic, but the Estonian prime minister was on The Daily Show.

http://www.cc.com/full-episodes/0d8i55/the-daily-show-with-trevor-noah-march-22--2016----taavi-roivas-season-21-ep-21082
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2016-03-24, 15:43:06
It says that the video is not available at my location. Yet another website to whom a part of EU is third world.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-03-24, 16:32:24
It isn't here either, most likely because of licensing agreements with local stations. Annoyingly, that probably just means Dutch-language Comedy Central (where I can actually watch it on the web here (http://www.comedycentral.nl/seasons/83853-the-daily-show-season-21-aflevering-81-21-maart-shaka-senghor/aflevering) in amazing 360p, while the American site has much higher quality streams). But because they implemented their geoblocking somewhat half-heartedly, youtube-dl has no issues downloading the program.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: krake on 2016-03-24, 16:33:52

It says that the video is not available at my location. Yet another website to whom a part of EU is third world.

Don't get annoyed Ersi. :)
Nor is it available for Germany:
Quote
Please also note that you are accessing a site which is designed for and targeted to U.S. audiences and is governed by and operated in accordance with U.S. laws.

Besides, the assholes are making use of the browsers' local storage - for whatever reason.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-03-24, 16:36:49
The German site doesn't geoblock me either, see http://www.comedycentral.tv/shows/2711-the-daily-show-with-trevor-noah (http://www.comedycentral.tv/staffeln/83855-the-daily-show-with-trevor-noah-staffel-21-folge-83-23-marz-lindsey-graham/folge doesn't work yet as of writing this)

Technologically it's obviously the same as the Dutch site.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-03-28, 12:04:21
If something it's uploaded to the internet it should be available to everyone using the internet.
When content is restricted based in geographical divisions then that's not the internet but mynet, yournet, theirnet.

We could block DnD to our American friends and state some imbecility as Please also note that you are accessing a site which is designed for and targeted to EU. audiences and is governed by and operated in accordance with EU. laws.
:faint:

Then we could reach paradise with Please also note that you are accessing a site which is designed for and targeted to Frenzie audience and is governed by and operated in accordance with Frenzie laws.
That way no one could access it. :)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2016-04-06, 19:53:01
Almost half of Icelandic nation now want the Pirate Party (http://icelandmonitor.mbl.is/news/politics_and_society/2016/04/06/almost_half_of_icelandic_nation_now_want_the_pirate/)

Quote
In a time of massive political unrest in Iceland, the open-democracy party has extended its lead as the nation's most popular choice for the next general elections, with a record of 43% support.

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Ficelandmonitor.mbl.is%2Ffrimg%2F8%2F76%2F876500.jpg&hash=18dcc257ae9d8cf89e26b37ac9dac271" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://icelandmonitor.mbl.is/frimg/8/76/876500.jpg)

The current government parties - beleaguered by the current worldwide Panama Papers scandal - lose out in this latest poll.

21.6% percent would vote for the Independence Party, 11.2% for the Left-Green Movement, 10.2% for the Social Democratic Alliance, 7.9% for the Progressive Party, and 3.8% for Bright Future.

According to its manifesto, the Pirate Party stands for direct democracy, freedom of information and civil and political rights.

15.5% of people said they would not vote, 14% were undecided and 13.9% would not give an answer.

A new Gallup survey published yesterday showed that 81% of Icelanders want Prime Minister Sigmundur Davíð Gunnlaugsson to walk the plank.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-04-07, 16:07:29
I'm impressed. But of course an opposition party often does better than a governing party.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Barulheira on 2016-04-07, 17:17:33
Just wait until it becomes the governing party. :left:
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2016-04-07, 20:36:12
Panama Papers: Could Pirate Party 'poetician' Birgitta Jonsdottir be Iceland's next PM? (http://www.smh.com.au/world/panama-papers-could-pirate-party-poetician-birgitta-jonsdottir-be-icelands-next-pm-20160405-gnzcjr.html)
A poet and pirate offers alternative for Iceland (http://www.reuters.com/article/panama-tax-iceland-pirates-repeat-update-idUSL5N17A0CM)

I don't know her, and haven't met her, but I remember her as the sensible one in the Wikileaks outfit, and as parliamentarian, working for Iceland as a safe haven (http://www.niemanlab.org/2010/02/iceland-aims-to-become-an-offshore-haven-for-journalists-and-leakers/) (and thus the perfect locale for data centres), and IMMI (https://en.immi.is/about-immi/).

Quote
The International Modern Media Institute was founded in 2011 with the aim of bringing together the best functioning laws in relation to freedom of information, expression and speech, reflecting the reality of borderless world and the challenges that it imposes locally and globally in the 21st century.

The institute is founded first and foremost on the back of its namesake parliamentary resolution (Icelandic Modern Media Initiative) which was unanimously adopted in the Icelandic Parliament 16th of June 2010, with the aim of making Iceland a journalistic safe haven, protecting both freedom of expression as well as freedom of information. The parliamentary resolution has received great support for it is obvious we need a new standard to implement not only in Iceland but also around the world.



Oh, and Icelandic citizenship for Snowden. That certainly will go down well with President Clinton.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-04-08, 00:56:39
Why no nipping at that two-faced corporate President of disastrous Ukraine?
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2016-04-08, 18:42:54
For what's going on in Sweden, you can call and find out.



A journalist did, for a dream date: Sweden Just Got Its Own Phone Number. A Funny Thing Happened When We Called It (http://www.adweek.com/adfreak/sweden-just-got-its-own-phone-number-heres-what-happened-when-we-called-170659)
Quote
So, how did the three phone calls go yesterday?
So, there was one from Turkey from a woman who didn't speak too much English. So, that was a fairly brief conversation. It was cut off. I don't know whether she hung up, or what happened. Then there was a guy from Britain. An engineer from Britain. And we had a long chat for about 10 minutes. He just asked about what life is like in Sweden, etc. And the third caller just hung up. So, I think there are a lot of people, like you, they just call to see if this actually works. So, for full disclosure, I should let you know that I'm a reporter for the Associated Press, the news agency. And I'm writing a story about this. I just signed up for the service to see how it works, and how many calls I would receive. Just to really understand how they set it up.
[Laughs] Right, OK. So, this is supposed to be a tourism campaign, and we have one journalist calling another journalist.
[Laughs] Yeah, I'm not sure that's what they intended! Which magazine do you work for?
I'm with Adweek.
OK. Cool.


:heart: And Twitter handles were exchanged.  :heart:
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2016-04-23, 05:42:54
American warship near Kaliningrad (formerly Königsberg) wondering why Russian fighter jets got all nervous.

Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-04-24, 19:19:48
Didn't take that thing when it happened too seriously and there was probably a bit of satirical play at the "exercise." It is a change as it is normally a US military ploy such as in the China area for example........

It was okay for the US to fly the U2 over Russia decades ago as if a divine right.?
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2016-04-25, 15:26:37
Illegal immigrants in Estonia: This is worse than expected. Is this really Europe? (http://www.pealinn.ee/poliitika/illegaalsed-sisserandajad-eesti-kohta-siin-on-oodatust-hullem-kas-n167800)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-04-25, 21:20:25
I suppose you saw blacks for the first time in your life. Even worst, illegal blacks.
Yep, worse than expected.  :lol:
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2016-04-25, 21:43:22
The words after the colon are the words of the blacks. They said that.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-04-25, 21:56:42
The words after the colon are the words of the blacks. They said that.
Course they say, they want Germany, not Estonia, not Portugal.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-04-26, 06:02:08
You folks are going to destroy yourselves, even after all the help the U.S. has given you... (Assuming that ersi, Howie and Belfrager are representative...! Of course, they're not. Nor am I representative of the American electorate.)

What do you do against ISIS and Russia...? Putin and al Bagadii?
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2016-04-26, 06:50:48
You folks are going to destroy yourselves, even after all the help the U.S. has given you...
What help the U.S. has given exactly?

Rhetorical question, of course. It will be funny if you attempt to answer it.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: krake on 2016-04-26, 16:28:51
You folks are going to destroy yourselves, even after all the help the U.S. has given you... (Assuming that ersi, Howie and Belfrager are representative...! Of course, they're not. Nor am I representative of the American electorate.)

What do you do against ISIS and Russia...? Putin and al Bagadii?
Unfortunately, there are many prejudices floating around the world and nearly no nation or country gets left out.
I can't tell if you're representative or not for how Americans see and perceive the world. For sure you aren't on these forums at least.
However one thing I can assure you with certainty though.
You manage to personify all negative prejudices an European can have towards Americans.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-04-26, 22:24:50
You manage to personify all negative prejudices an European can have towards Americans.
That's...interesting! :)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2016-04-27, 12:02:43
If the European in question is rjhowie, that would be quite impressive.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-04-27, 18:21:52
Help the US has given? What pompous imperialsitic guff is that?

The country that Oakdale represents is run by the corporates. War after war created and especially on countries that will not bend the knee to the USA and the money me and military. One usually finds that after doing a country in America then goes on to have the corporate business minds in to make money. An then throw on that rather pathetic guff about Russia? When Russia has hundred of military bases everywhere doing what the US does then there is a debate to be had. Arrogance and hypocrisy on Oakdale's limited mind path. That there are ex-colonists who are more in the real world is great to hear of. Will leave it at that and have a laugh at what passes for an electoral system over there"
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-04-28, 00:14:01
War after war created [...]
Europe's history is not exactly "clean" in that respect. You might have heard of the two World Wars...
And the centuries of wars before them? Nah.
Would that you'd been a Quaker here, RJ: You'd have at least got an 8th grade education! :)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-04-28, 23:22:40
You manage to personify all negative prejudices an European can have towards Americans.
Not at all, he's the only American Dadaist I ever found...

Quote
A reviewer from the American Art News stated at the time that "Dada philosophy is the sickest, most paralyzing and most destructive thing that has ever originated from the brain of man." Art historians have described Dada as being, in large part, a "reaction to what many of these artists saw as nothing more than an insane spectacle of collective homicide."[10]

Years later, Dada artists described the movement as "a phenomenon bursting forth in the midst of the postwar economic and moral crisis, a savior, a monster, which would lay waste to everything in its path... [It was] a systematic work of destruction and demoralization... In the end it became nothing but an act of sacrilege."
:wine:
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-04-29, 08:41:08
Not at all, he's the only American Dadaist I ever found...
Cites or argument, please?
If that's too complicated for you -a university-educated European- perhaps you  could... No. You can't. Go back to your prejudices
That's what you do, mostly.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-04-29, 23:19:25
Cites or argument, please?
Open your eyes Oakdale, I've posted a self explanatory quote for Dadaism in order to help non saviors to identify it with you.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2016-04-30, 05:30:48
I submit that his embodying all negative prejudices and being a Dadaist defined as "the sickest, most paralyzing and most destructive thing that has ever originated" and "a phenomenon bursting forth in the midst of the postwar economic and moral crisis, a savior, a monster, which would lay waste to everything in its path..." are in no way mutually exclusive. And his anti-semeticness nicely completes the picture.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2016-04-30, 21:14:27
When Europe is overrun by the Islamic fundie lot and the two of them are refugees, I offer a personal welcome and invitation to @Belfrager and @rjhowie to set up a Portuguese and Scottish pub in the 3rd world state of the US, the great sovereign state of Mississippi.

Oxford, MS, could benefit from @Belfrager's wine pub, and @rjhowie could prove my years of argument right about having a proper pub. :cheers: :wine: :beer:
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-04-30, 21:45:17
Oxford, MS, could benefit from @Belfrager (https://thedndsanctuary.eu/index.php?action=profile;u=4)'s wine pub
I believe so.
Unfortunately, Belfrager would not benefit from Oxford, MS.  :wine:

But who knows, maybe I'm wrong... :)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: krake on 2016-05-01, 01:06:38
When Europe is overrun by the Islamic fundie lot ...
No hard feelings Colonel but that's not even so far fetched as it might look at first glance.  :wine:
Those fundie lot or even worse, their main sponsor worldwide are (for now) 'our' dear friends and strategic allies in the Middle East. They have oil and some hundreds of billions invested in the USA.
And if this wouldn't be enough, our lovely leader (I mean the Leader of the Free World) is urging now Europe to admit Turkey (just another venerable player) in the EU. Victoria Nuland comes to my mind - "F*ck the EU".
The sultan from Ankara doesn't have neither oil nor did he invest hundreds of billions in the USA but Turkey is geographically an extremly important geostrategic hub for further US expansion towards East and Middle East.

BTW, within a short time Turks will be permitted to enter the EU without visa. At least a few millions of charming visitors are expected at first run...
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: krake on 2016-05-01, 01:15:45
Unfortunately, Belfrager would not benefit from Oxford ...  :wine:
But Oxford might benefit from Belfrager. :) :wine:
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-05-01, 01:54:00
I am not a drinker and stick to Irn Bru (diet version!). However I could assure the Southern boy that a traditional Scots pub would be an asset to his State.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-05-04, 16:58:18
A bit old, but I just came across this article.

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/141/4/639.long
Quote
Health-promoting effects of the Mediterranean diet have been in focus for decades, whereas less interest has been given to existing healthy dietary habits within other Western cultures. [...] A healthy Nordic food index, consisting of traditional Nordic food items with expected health-promoting effects (fish, cabbages, rye bread, oatmeal, apples and pears, and root vegetables), was extracted and associated with mortality by Cox proportional hazard models. [...] In conclusion, an index based on traditional healthy Nordic foods was found to be related to lower mortality among middle-aged Danes, in particular among men. This study indicates that traditional, healthy food items should be considered before public recommendations for major dietary changes are made.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-05-05, 05:26:52
Or more reasonably,  the "so-called" experts don't know much... :)
Go figure!
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-05-13, 22:41:44
In conclusion, an index based on traditional healthy Nordic foods was found to be related to lower mortality among middle-aged Danes, in particular among men
What a f*cking conclusion, healthy Danese food kills less Danese, specially men.
Wau, I'm impressed how such conclusion demonstrates the Mediterranean diet to be worst than the Nordic "diet".
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-05-14, 06:58:26
Wau, I'm impressed how such conclusion demonstrates the Mediterranean diet to be worst than the Nordic "diet".
That's really not what they were saying. Rather, it's yet another study corroborating my semi-educated hunch that (most) traditional dietary habits probably have something going for them. Or to summarize my food philosophy in one sentence: overly processed food[1] not only tastes yucky, but long-term it's bad for you.
My way of trying to avoid "haha! cheese is processed and so are frozen veggies!!!111" type responses.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-05-14, 12:16:50
That's really not what they were saying
I know, but that's what they would like to say, so I antecipate the future and put things straight. :)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-05-14, 12:42:29
Fair enough. :P
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2016-06-08, 10:14:00
Summer is going on now. This time lapse is from Helsinki, the extreme south of Finland, and on the same latitude as Stockholm and Oslo (or St. Petersburg, or a little to the south of Anchorage).

Left in the winter, right in the summer (if anyone were in doubt).

https://youtu.be/nTjyt-6hJQw
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-06-08, 12:05:07
How do you sleep? :sherlock:
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2016-06-08, 13:14:13
Using advanced technology: curtains. More so up north where there is no night at all.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2016-06-08, 14:11:40
Nice video, jax. However, the photography makes the summer side appear darker than it really is. On the summer side, it seems to get really dark after 22, but streetlights turn on only just before midnight. This means that there's actually enough light until that time to keep streetlights off.

The streetlights turn on just before midnight and then off again just after 3. The sun makes a brief setting around those hours in summer, but stays close enough to the horizon to still shed some light.

In winter, on the other hand, the sun is up in the middle of the day, but so briefly that those who work at ordinary office hours arrive at work and depart in complete darkness.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2016-06-08, 20:27:48
I thought the same thing, it got dark earlier than expected. That might be the camera, or astronomical/timezone phenomena. The Earth's orbit isn't a perfect circle, which means that the sun appears to move at  (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth%27s_orbit)slightly different speed, while the day is defined by average speed. By summertime solar noon, the meridian is after noon. Also each hourly time zone is 30° wide, which takes the sun one hour to pass, and European Central Time is wider still. 

(https://uk.ixl.com/qgen_res/math/time_zone_map/europeNoTimes.gif)

Add to that summer time and sunset/sunrise is no longer symmetric around midnight. Oslo is 11°E, Stockholm is 18°E and Helsinki 25°E, but in a different time zone. So the meridian in Oslo is 13:16, in Stockholm 12:47, and in Helsinki 13:19.

Actually by now there is no night, but three hours of civil twilight and two of nautical twilight. 

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d2/Twilight_subcategories.svg/500px-Twilight_subcategories.svg.png)

Title: Hourly time zone
Post by: Barulheira on 2016-06-08, 21:27:50
 :sst: I'm afraid each hourly time zone is 15° wide. (360°/24h)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2016-06-08, 22:04:16
That, fortunately, makes more sense. Central European Time is a fairly wide zone, on the mainland the westernmost part of Spain is 9° west of Greenwich, while the easternmost part of Norway is 31° east (further east than Istanbul).
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-06-09, 23:11:05
:sst:  I'm afraid each hourly time zone is 15° wide. (360°/24h)
Of course. Jax is entering into delirium. Administrative time zones aren't obviously solar hours.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2016-06-25, 11:29:41
Vello Vaher goes America.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2016-08-12, 11:40:59
Norway may block UK return to European Free Trade Association (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/aug/09/norway-may-block-uk-return-to-european-free-trade-association)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2016-08-19, 13:14:10
When in Northern Norway a couple weeks ago, I came across the oldest shop in the local region, some 180 years old.

What separates us from then isn't as much the shop, or the age (it's fairly old, but not exceptionally so), but the location, and the thinking that this is the natural place to set one up. 

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/SG7wMKFh1N7acaPPqhaB5Rz0npx1mZnYk4Hw7xI1Nj9u4Cz9RiaqShvCeaQv_pVh_9MIlyi45l3USl7vQob6e-EzAuJCGImpP8WSO7r4yxfZwXJWa0aAAVmGsjm4aqd1ZT_8MCpUuqSdVRM5Nn3zFS4rP7mM8EmNe1BIR3-kywwZ4qv2YdulPZlu4v3mvl20yO_NvPTLc7PFWOZH08NeP7-bWNM0msHpUvxFUaJm3HIKz9wYyzE3rLcQldVVyu3LCV-XMs2xJY_Owzp38NVZkxs8Ad7mvsF3DtZs-bFlm-z9szoolWvvuQ2bdLoMbwQXna4dRJd433b4PYJFm4-RnPtnCtfr0xAfi2fTp4TzPRdpb3z1_mo9Tr9RazJ9FuwM8wDsetlM2QBsBZW4wKW3hL8RiA1LWmQ8CkS1rkBUwyX2SkdY7gxeqcRQbghbE7ZMBMux7Q5MRAtFvXy5Wk7D3q5dyHAJnuV1sx0ejdMBocCkCYhohvvJXbQpIp3x7TJAAIPzA08a7UUFCRvsH-k4dYIppTl9eqY8SXsic-ieffLgIu73buH7rhxofWVYVR6Ob6Ma8a1_WuEyYjO_YgLKyEOTea3q-Eox=w520-h691-no)

Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-08-19, 16:31:56
Is it a fishing supply store or some such?
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2016-08-19, 20:50:53
It was a "krambu" (general store) on top of a boathouse the would-be merchant bought. It is likely that fishing and farming equipment were among the products sold, but I don't know. This was not only before cars, but before roads as well, and the geography there is highly fractal,  so it made sense to have a "row-in" store.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-08-20, 09:48:42
Sure, a bit like how the canals in Amsterdam and Venice make for very efficient transport ways, except natural. Still, it looks so remote. :P
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-08-20, 11:05:42
It's obvious that the remote oh so romantic little shop lives from Norway's oil subsides. As everything else.
Maybe I should move to Norway, Norwegian Wood Beatle's song comes to mind. The only problem is that the very beautiful Norwegian girls once reach the thirties turns into huge fat whales. It must be from their food.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-08-20, 23:35:13
Not able to cuddle a woman and your hands reach each other? Hhhm, I would go somewhere else for a trip.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2016-09-04, 19:54:40
@krake
You've demonstrated that there's no point reasoning with you. However, the matter is obviously close to my heart, so I will concisely state the other side, so to say, even if you are not listening.

Bear in mind that it makes no changes to the matter because my statement is still valid whereas yours are false to put it mildly...

Quote
That preamble has drawn vituperations from Lavrov, his ministry's chief spokesman Alexander Yakovenko, the Duma's and Federation Council's foreign affairs committee chairmen Konstantin Kosachev and Mikhail Margelov, and other Moscow officials. Politically, they object to the Estonian parliament's references to the 1991 and 1992 documents that mention the "Soviet aggression against Estonia in 1940," "illegal annexation," and "decades of occupation." Those formulations are not included or cited in the Estonian parliament's June 20, 2005, document. But its mere reference to the earlier documents that include those formulations seems beyond official Moscow's capacity to come to terms with its history.
source (http://www.jamestown.org/single/?tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=30572&no_cache=1)

How many evidences like the above (written in English) do you still need? 1?, 5?, 10?, ...?
Or do you think all those articles have been written and published (that of the BBC included) by KGB agents?
The thing going on here is the usual anti-neighbour ramblings in Russian Duma. They do that a lot. They call current Germany fascists too, occasionally. Let's be charitable and say that ramblings in the Duma are not official stances of the country.

This is not to say that the ramblings have no reference to reality whatsoever. Indeed, Estonian parliament has adopted laws, declarations and other documents regarding the Soviet past. However, we have done this from day one in order to deal with the Soviet ballast that we have, guided by the constitution we readopted. This is comparable to the way Russia itself is dealing with its own Stalinist past.

The Russian Duma ramblings and "vituperations from Lavrov" gave the world the false impression as if Estonia began mentioning Soviet aggression specifically in connection with the border agreement and as if Estonia began busily changing the signed border agreement. You were clearly under this false impression. Still false impression. So, 12 points to Russian propaganda.

And since we are at it let me quote you:
You know wrong. Estonia and Latvia had territorial claims against Russia until Merkel forced us to renounce the claims. Meaning, "friendly fire" from within EU forced us to formally renounce claims to independence. Thank you very much!
Let's compare your statement with what BalticTimes has to say:
Quote
As compared to 2005, the wording of the border agreements has remained unchanged
source (http://www.baltictimes.com/news/articles/34439/)

In 2005 Merkel wasn't in office and the border agreements have remained unchanged in 2014 compared to 2005.

So, who tells the true and who makes false allegations? BalticTimes? Ersi?
Let's elaborate a bit what I meant when I said "renounce claims to independence". I meant the reference to Treaty of Tartu in the preamble.

The reference to Treaty of Tartu in the preamble that you now have, says (after removing the distracting salad of legalese): "...keeping in mind that the current agreement changes the border defined by the Constitution and the Treaty of Tartu and does not change the rest of the Treaty..."

Why is this important? Because our Constitution § 122. says that the border of Estonia is defined by Treaty of Tartu. Thus, Treaty of Tartu is as foundational to Estonia's existence as our constitution and at least as important as recognitions of independence from our neighbours are. Granted, this puts Estonia quite fundamentally to a precarious situation vis-a-vis Russia, but, you see, these are our foundational documents readopted at 1992 referendum, so that's what we must stick to, if we are to remain ourselves. Otherwise we would get far worse disrespect internationally for publicly pissing on ourselves. Which we are getting as we speak. And living next to Russia is precarious no matter what you do or say. We live next to Russia, so we know. You don't.

Sidenote: Being me, when I contemplate the facts that

- the border agreement with Russia changes the borders of Treaty of Tartu
- Russia has not acknowledged the Treaty of Tartu

I would not have signed such an agreement. Things must go in their proper order. Either Russia acknowledges the Treaty of Tartu or we negotiate a new treaty with new borders to replace it, with full-blown reciprocal recognition of independence "perpetually" as those treaties normally state (yes, Treaty of Tartu says the equivalent of "perpetually" or "eternally"), and Estonia must have a referendum to alter the relevant point in the constitution. Then the signature and ratification would follow. That's backbone.

Unfortunately, we gave in to pressure from EU (specifically to Merkel's heated rush to get visa freedom with Russia), we renounced the reference to Treaty of Tartu while signing to change our borders. That's diplomatic suicide.

Besides dropping any reference to Treaty of Tartu, another detail that changed between 2005 and 2014 was the two sentences referenced in Baltic Times. The first says "the agreement regulates only issues concerning the state border" - meaning it is unconcerned with recognition of independence. The other "confirms reciprocally the lack of territorial claims." Namely, Russia considers upholding Treaty of Tartu as territorial claims agains Russia, so Estonia's signature now means, from Russia's point of view, that we have are giving it all up. Next, Russia invaded Crimea to show what gets done to the weak.


For those interested in the entire debate (such as myself in two years or so), the starting point is here https://thedndsanctuary.eu/index.php?topic=230.msg65379#msg65379
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-09-06, 00:54:10
Russia invaded Crimea? Dear, oh dear!
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: krake on 2016-09-21, 14:01:39
Former NATO Chief Propagandist Anders Fogh Rasmussen is performing now his part outside the military alliance. :jester:
Quote
The United States Must Be the World's Policeman
source (http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-united-states-must-be-the-worlds-policeman-1474412665)

NATO an US instrument for policing the world?
It's a new definition of NATO, A.F.Rasmussen is trying to coin.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-09-21, 21:47:06
Instead of acting as if it had some inherent right to be the world's policeman with it's own unsavoury record it needs a new Revolution but by the people not the rich.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: krake on 2016-11-14, 18:30:17
Finland schools: Subjects scrapped and replaced with 'topics' as country reforms its education system (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/finland-schools-subjects-are-out-and-topics-are-in-as-country-reforms-its-education-system-10123911.html)

Quote
Subject-specific lessons - an hour of history in the morning, an hour of geography in the afternoon - are already being phased out for 16-year-olds in the city's upper schools. They are being replaced by what the Finns call "phenomenon" teaching - or teaching by topic. For instance, a teenager studying a vocational course might take "cafeteria services" lessons, which would include elements of maths, languages (to help serve foreign customers), writing skills and communication skills.

No math classes, no chemistry classes - let's mix them up and play cafeteria instead. :)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-11-16, 00:19:58
We need a Finland poster...
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2016-11-16, 04:24:58
ersi lives next door. You could ask him... :)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2016-11-16, 15:38:12
Finland schools: Subjects scrapped and replaced with 'topics' as country reforms its education system (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/finland-schools-subjects-are-out-and-topics-are-in-as-country-reforms-its-education-system-10123911.html)
It's too much to say "reform" about it. It's just an experiment in select schools. If it works, it will be expanded maybe. If it won't work, it will be scrapped.

Another avant-guard experiment I remember from Finland in late 80's was to mix different age groups together, to inject something called variety in the teaching process. Predictably, mess ensued. Bullying increased - a few naughty older boys easily commanded the entire classroom and there was no restraining them. Teachers didn't know what to teach in terms of age-appropriateness and correspondence to curriculum. The experiment was scrapped.

Experiments like this are just frustration to teachers, if the entire teaching process is not given to them. But when teachers of the local school get to decide everything, then schools are not the same over the country and everybody is not getting the same education, but getting the same education everywhere is the point of the tax-funded public school system. Therefore I maintain that the classical traditional didactics is not just classical and traditional - it's also best tested and in practice the only workable way. If the reformers knew it from the inside well enough, they would also know its flexibility.

When will they experiment with a school without teachers? Hah.

The article says, "...education to  promote character, resilience and communication skills, rather than just pushing children through "exam factories"." The education system of Japan has always been an outright exam hell, but always measured well in international ranking. Currently, China is on the rise, another pure exam hell. And I'd like to see how one practically detaches character, resilience and communication skills from grades and exams so that the said skills become measurably improved.

Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-11-16, 16:47:58
Incidentally, you might be interested in the first nine minutes or so of this video (start at 28s). Admittedly it's in the UK, not Finland.

https://youtu.be/is31rrXubQ0?t=28s
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Mr. Tennessee on 2016-11-16, 20:07:09
I did it for 30 years. Students wanted to be in my classes, and parents wanted their children in my classes. That was in the good old days.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-11-17, 10:58:42
Ah-ha, a very subtle change of name label but known dear man. Good for you and can note the support as I got the same in my job involving the young and my voluntary side.  Always extra nice when i sometimes bump into those I knew a while ago and the face lights up when they see me.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: krake on 2016-11-26, 12:06:07
Estonia Navy Chief Resigns Over Contraband Smuggling Scandal (http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2016/11/23/world/europe/ap-eu-estonia-navy-smuggling-.html?_r=0)
Quote
The commander of the Estonia Navy has resigned after customs officials said they found smuggled alcohol and cigarettes aboard an Estonian ship taking part in NATO operations on the Baltic Sea.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-11-26, 14:05:54
Any chance the Estonian Captain being Captain Haddock? :)

I don't understand how a war vessel can be searched by customs officials.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2016-11-26, 15:04:20
I don't understand how a war vessel can be searched by customs officials.
I thought the same thing. Also, in Estonia nobody resigns easily. They don't resign when they are criminal suspects. Sometimes they don't resign even after a court order (most recently this year with the mayor of Tallinn). But here two officers resigned over a customs inspection and, according to Estonian news, there's a private who got the direct charge, not the officers. Moreover, the story is somehow regarded reports-worthy in Western media. This case is fishy in many different ways.

@krake If you want to make Estonia look bad, post the stories when our officials DON'T resign when implicated for, for example, treason. Except that that somehow does not make it into Western news.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-11-26, 16:26:29
I don't understand how a war vessel can be searched by customs officials.
I thought the same thing.
I'm not really sure what else you'd expect?
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2016-11-26, 20:07:47
I don't understand how a war vessel can be searched by customs officials.
I thought the same thing.
I'm not really sure what else you'd expect?
There are things the military is immune to. From the reporting it appears the customs officials searched the ship. I'd expect it be possible that the sailors, as they land, have to go through customs with their belongings, but not that the ship gets searched. This is how it works in Russia. And apparently in Portugal too.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-11-26, 21:36:33
Of course never customs agents could ever search a ,military ship. They would be arrested by the military forces.
Custom agents, as well as the police, don't have jurisdiction over military personel or their material, facilities or anything else.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-11-27, 08:37:33
but not that the ship gets searched.
Afaik ships of any kind aren't normally searched regardless, except perhaps as a random sample or training exercise. But are you talking about a difference without distinction which may well be lost in translation, like which specific organization has the jurisdiction to perform such duties,[1] or are you saying that the Russian military has a carte blanche?
For example, in the Netherlands there are four branches of the military: the land force, the air force, the navy, and military police. The latter would probably be responsible for this kind of thing.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2016-11-27, 09:12:38
...and military police. The latter would probably be responsible for this kind of thing.
That's right, the ordinary customs officials don't get to do it.

I don't think anything got lost in translation, but much could have gone lost in reporting, because our reporters are usually some high school students and when they stick with the career, they remain at high school level. Even though this is the kind of news that should have been assigned to some real journalist.

The same way as there's diplomatic immunity - a foreign diplomat may be caught for shop-lifting, but the (ordinary) police doesn't get to treat him like just another shop-lifter - there's also some level of immunity for the military equipment and personnel.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: krake on 2016-11-27, 10:12:26
@krake If you want to make Estonia look bad,
Nah. I just found it funny. Dual-use military exercises. :)

I don't think anything got lost in translation, but much could have gone lost in reporting, because our reporters are usually some high school students and when they stick with the career, they remain at high school level. Even though this is the kind of news that should have been assigned to some real journalist.
Presumably lost on purpose, rather than because of dilettantism... ;)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2016-11-27, 11:01:01
At my time, a military could only be arrested if by another military of higher rank.

I'm not admired if these days a mere shitty police could arrest a General, such is the pacifist foolish that Europeans take care with of their defense forces.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2016-12-12, 18:56:35
Inside Sweden's Silicon Valley (Bloomberg Hello World: Episode 2)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d915p1aXlkE


This is Kiruna: How to Move a City

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKvqJ05AsPY
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2016-12-13, 02:56:00
Generally Sweden has been a reasonable place to live so an interesting story. Unfortunately elsewhere and in places like the capital and such there are no-go areas due to immigrants and the police are losing 3 officers a day chucking the service. Change days.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2016-12-13, 15:35:48
Two of those claimed "no-go zones" are next to me (20 and 30 minutes walk away). The first no-go zone I go to regularly, last there the day before yesterday, the second not so often, during summertime (probably winter too if I had enjoyed skiing).
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2017-02-07, 22:20:20
Fact and open statistics propagandist Hans Rosling dies aged 68 (https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2017/feb/07/hans-rosling-obituary)

TED memorial collection: The best Hans Rosling talks you've ever seen (https://www.ted.com/playlists/474/the_best_hans_rosling_talks_yo)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2017-03-29, 12:03:36
Football: Last night Estonia took an honorable 0-0 tie against Scotland.


Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2017-03-29, 23:43:53
Odd game with no supporters. Didn't know about the event as I tend only to note football when the 2 Glasgow giants play each other namely Rangers v Celtic. Both have religious undertones so I go for Rangers!
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2017-05-10, 16:19:07
Hobbyhorsing: The unusual sport girls in Finland love (http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-39853880/the-unusual-sport-girls-in-finland-love)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAY-ZskKiXA
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2017-05-10, 16:22:00
Huh, that's kinda cool.
Title: Finland and Formula 1
Post by: Barulheira on 2017-05-10, 16:25:44
Finland is doing pretty well in Formula 1 Racing, too.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2017-05-12, 02:41:55
That daft Swedish thing was seen on a news item and how immature and damn silly.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2017-05-22, 12:22:17
There's a first for everything, First ever Swede named as cardinal by Pope Francis (https://www.thelocal.se/20170521/first-ever-swede-named-as-cardinal-by-pope-francis)

Quote
(https://www.thelocal.se/userdata/images/article/40acac5d283251a2ae5dfabe70bab9e97227a34aacdd9146066383a5603a9968.jpg)
Bishop Anders Arborelius with Pope Francis in the Vatican in 2016. Credit: L'Osservatore Romano/Pool Photo via AP/TT
In a historic appointment by Pope Francis on Sunday, Bishop Anders Arborelius was the first ever Swede to become a cardinal.
(https://www.thelocal.se/page/view/tag/)In a surprise announcement on Sunday, Pope Francis named a total of five new cardinals, from Mali, Laos, El Salvador, Spain - and Bishop Anders Arborelius from Sweden. 
 
READ ALSO: Pope Francis holds Catholic mass in secular Sweden (https://www.thelocal.se/20161101/pope-francis-greets-catholics-in-secular-sweden)
 
Except for Spain, all countries are peripheral in the Catholic world. Particularly Sweden, with its strongly secular profile, stood out, said Douglas Brommesson, a political scientist at Lund University who has studied the role of the Catholic church in international politics.
 
"But this is somewhat in line with the Pope's way of thinking. He has named cardinals in countries that are poor or that are located far away from Rome previously. It is likely a way of getting perspectives from other countries than the typically Catholic countries," Brommesson told TT newswire.
 
"I suppose this is a great encouragement for the Catholic church in Sweden. The Pope visited Sweden recently (https://www.thelocal.se/20161028/why-the-pope-is-visiting-sweden-francis-lund-malmo), and Sweden has in a short period of time ended up at the centre of the life of the Catholic church. That is, of course, encouraging," he added.
 
READ ALSO: Pope: Why Swedish men look for non-Swedish women (https://www.thelocal.se/20161102/pope-why-swedish-men-look-for-non-swedish-women)
 
Apart from being the first ever Swede to be appointed as cardinal, 67-year-old Anders Arborelius became the first Catholic bishop of Swedish descent since the reformation in the 16th century in Sweden when he was named Bishop of Stockholm in 1998.
 
The cardinals belong to an elite group of members of the Catholic church, acting as the closest advisors to the Pope. Cardinals aged under 80 are also allowed to take part in the naming of a new Pope, which is why the Catholic church aims for having approximately 120 cardinals aged under 80.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: rjhowie on 2017-05-24, 00:34:25
(Groan)  :faint:
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: krake on 2017-08-23, 14:57:45
Estonia wants to launch its own government-backed cryptocurrency called 'estcoin' (https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/23/estonia-cryptocurrency-called-estcoin.html)

Quote
Kaspar Korjus, managing director at e-Residency, Enterprise Estonia, said that the initiative was about creating a "borderless digital nation".
-
Estonian President Kersti Kaljulaid said that her nation was "the only truly digital society," underpinned by the state.
Title: Estonia?
Post by: Barulheira on 2017-08-23, 16:40:20
Typically Estonian.  :D
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2017-08-23, 23:18:55
Estonian President Kersti Kaljulaid said that her nation was "the only truly digital society,"
Yeap... and Ersi the only truly digital guru in the world. Well, assuming he solved his problem with the
e-readers he's always complaining about.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: krake on 2017-09-18, 12:35:43
Worst known governmental leak ever is slowly coming to light: Agency moved nation's secret data to "The Cloud" (https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/blog/2017/07/swedish-transport-agency-worst-known-governmental-leak-ever-is-slowly-coming-to-light/)
Quote
There is no cloud, only somebody else's computer.
;)

Now the funny part of the story:
Quote
The responsible director has been found guilty in criminal court of the whole affair, and sentenced to the harshest sentence ever seen in Swedish government
  :no:

Quote
She was docked half a month's paycheck.
:lol:
Title: Paycheck
Post by: Barulheira on 2017-09-18, 15:21:00
That must be a huge paycheck. :left:
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2017-09-18, 15:33:32
Possible security risk affects 750,000 Estonian ID-cards
Quote from: http://estonianworld.com/technology/possible-security-risk-affects-750000-estonian-id-cards/
On 30 August, an international team of researchers informed the Estonian Information System Authority (RIA) of a vulnerability potentially affecting the digital use of Estonian ID cards. The possible vulnerability affects a total of almost 750,000 ID-cards issued starting from October 2014 [...] The ID-cards issued before 16 October 2014 use a different chip and are not affected.
750,000 ID-cards affected? This is practically everybody. Except me. My card was issued a few months before that date and will expire in a bit more than a year.

(In the country's official news outlet too.) (http://news.err.ee/616732/potential-security-risk-could-affect-750-000-estonian-id-cards)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2017-09-20, 18:08:10
Norway's sovereign wealth fund passed a milestone.

 (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-09-19/norway-wealth-fund-says-reached-1-trillion-in-value)
The World's Biggest Wealth Fund Hits $1 Trillion (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-09-19/norway-wealth-fund-says-reached-1-trillion-in-value)

Though not really because it has done so well lately, rather that the US dollar is worth less.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2017-10-19, 10:06:39
79% of Swedish 2 years olds have used the internet. 
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DMfVaBjWkAEMzG4.jpg)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2017-10-19, 10:50:19
79% of Swedish 2 years olds have used the internet.
No surprise there. I'm sure that I "used" TV and radio when I was 2.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2017-10-19, 17:23:00
Okay, video tag does not work with this one. Anyway, it's Tallinn almost a century ago. Germans still preferred to call it Reval back then.

https://www.filmothek.bundesarchiv.de/video/248828
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2017-10-19, 17:57:51
Nice bridge at 2:20. :P
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2017-10-19, 18:18:45
Nice bridge at 2:20. :P
Too many obscure harbours in this short film, relevant and visible only for those who enter by cargo ship. (Yes, Tallinn is like Rotterdam with a long series of various harbours and docks.) Tourists mostly see the streetscape and skyline, but the skyline is missing in this film.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2017-10-19, 18:21:18
The movie does advertise to show you the harbor city, so I don't think it's unexpected to see some of the harbor. :P

But yes, except for some shaky footage at 3:10 I don't think there was much of what I'd presumably think of as the city.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: krake on 2017-11-25, 12:40:42
Norway's pricey F-35s caught sending 'sensitive data' to US (https://www.rt.com/news/410923-norway-f35-sensitive-data-us/)

"Due to national considerations, there is a need for a filter where the user nations can exclude sensitive data from the data stream that is shared by the system with the manufacturer Lockheed Martin," said Defense Ministry senior consultant Lars Gjemble, as cited by Norway's ABC Nyheter.

A flying Win10 (https://www.ghacks.net/2016/02/08/windows-10-phones-home-even-after-privacy-hardening/) with Intel chips (https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/08/29/intel_management_engine_can_be_disabled/), so to speak. :)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2017-12-10, 15:38:58
ICAN's Nobel Peace Price ceremony at Oslo City Hall today has a few fewer dignitaries than usual.


US, UK, France won't send ambassadors to Nobel ceremony (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/us-uk-france-wont-send-ambassadors-to-nobel-ceremony/2017/11/30/ffded126-d5d3-11e7-9ad9-ca0619edfa05_story.html?utm_term=.649d66f3dcf8)
Ambassadors of Western nuclear powers to snub Nobel ceremony (http://www.france24.com/en/20171130-ambassadors-western-nuclear-powers-snub-nobel-ceremony)

Quote
OSLO (AFP) - Breaking with tradition, nearly all ambassadors of the world's nuclear powers will not attend this year's Nobel Peace Prize ceremony which honours efforts to ban atomic weapons, the Nobel Institute said Thursday.

Russia and Israel will be the only exceptions, with their ambassadors due to attend.

"They clearly received instructions to express their reservations towards ICAN (International Campaign to Abolish Nuclear Weapons) and the global treaty" to ban weapons of mass destruction, the head of the Nobel Institute, Olav Njolstad, told AFP.


The Peace Prize was awarded on October 6 to ICAN, a coalition of non-governmental organisations lobbying for a historic treaty banning atomic weapons, which was signed in July by 122 countries.
Then again, Norway's foreign minister won't attend either. 
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2017-12-11, 21:56:07
Norway's ministers are always gays.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2018-03-17, 20:04:34
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Festonianworld.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2018%2F03%2FWHR_web-I.png&hash=ee7457dd5fe20680b9552e95ece344c3" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://estonianworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/WHR_web-I.png)

Congrats Finland. And Estonia is behind all its neighbours. Luckily I have already managed to visit the happy Finland this year for a few days so I am not too unhappy http://estonianworld.com/life/estonians-arent-particularly-happy-scoring-63rd-world/
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2018-03-18, 23:08:18
Foreign-born people have very strange ideas about their ideal destination.
Considering higher suicide rate countries as paradise, it's one of those ideas.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2018-03-19, 10:42:11
In a hurry I did not grab the right chart in the previous post, but let it stand. This year's happiness report had special focus on migrants.

Suicide rates are the same in Finland and the Baltic countries, so according to this measure we should all be the same paradise. Apparently the report considered some other parametres.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2018-03-19, 11:39:33
It looks like Estonia is lower primarily in the "residual" category.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2018-04-04, 11:01:41
Every time there is some UK media outlet that can't tell the difference between Baltic and Balkan http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-1661894/Video-Trump-talks-Russia-relationship-meeting-Balkan-leaders.html
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2018-04-04, 15:47:30
The article itself (click the link under the video) seems to have been fixed. Video title is still the same though. :)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2018-04-05, 04:43:18
The article itself (click the link under the video) seems to have been fixed. Video title is still the same though. :)
That's how you know they think Baltic and Balkan are interchangeable synonyms.

Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2018-04-05, 08:48:51
Changing URLs is inconvenient in many or most publishing systems, as links to old URLs should be redirected to new. For that reason they are good indicators of original headline, and when there is a discrepancy between the URL and the headline that tells a story about how this story has developed (all intermediate versions will be gone, so it is poor version control).
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2018-04-05, 09:27:17
In this case, the URL is in the right, so whoever did the headline in the main text had to be thinking he was saying the same thing as the URL. And since it's a headline in the main text, it could be easily fixed, but nobody is doing it, so they must be thinking there's nothing to fix... Baltic or Balkan, same thing.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2018-04-05, 09:45:56
You generally have to deal, Spotify: Swiss or Swedish? Whatevs, says New York, flies the wrong flag (https://www.thelocal.ch/20180403/spotify-swiss-or-swedish-whatevs-says-new-york-stock-exchange-flies-the-wrong-flag)

Quote
Spotify was founded by Swedes Daniel Ek and Martin Lorentzon in 2006.
Their home country and Switzerland do share common points: They both have a history of neutrality, have great skiing stations and stunning nature. But they also have plenty of differences, including different languages, and that one of the two countries is located in Scandinavia, while the other is, well, not.
READ ALSO: Ten things you should never say to a Swede (https://www.thelocal.se/20141112/ten-things-you-should-never-say-to-a-swede)
But confusing the two is not an uncommon mistake, and it does not only happen in anglophone countries. In Spain, 'Suecia' and 'Suiza' are rather too close for comfort, as are China's 'Ruidian' and 'Ruishi'.
In fact, ask any Swede or Swiss person if they have ever been subject to people confusing their country with "that other European country", and you will get a lot of nodding heads.
Last year, a Swiss airline even launched a competition aimed at ending the never-ending mix-up by offering to take 24 winners on a tour through the non-existing 'Swederland' (https://www.thelocal.ch/20171102/sweden-or-switzerland-airline-aims-to-end-confusion-with-trips-to-swederland).
There are other pairs, like Slovenia-Slovakia (to add to the confusion, the Slovak name for Slovakia is Slovensko), or all the Guineas and Guyanas, to be found in America, Africa, and Asia: 

Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2018-04-08, 12:42:43
Congrats Finland. And Estonia is behind all its neighbours. Luckily I have already managed to visit the happy Finland this year for a few days so I am not too unhappy http://estonianworld.com/life/estonians-arent-particularly-happy-scoring-63rd-world/

Happiness is fleeting. Just came across this Deutche Welle video explaining why Norwegians are so happy (last year they dethroned the Danes who had monopolised the chart for years, thus exporting hygge into the English vocabulary). Now I guess DW will have to replace this one with a video explaining that sauna is the key to happiness. 

https://youtu.be/DWcPZxd4VVs
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2018-04-12, 23:57:24
Norwegians are so happy (last year they dethroned the Danes who had monopolised the chart for years
I don't understand so much happiness from the northerners that were always at the top of suicide rates.
Happiness, those who needs to rent a cruise boat in order to get in alcoholic coma every weekend.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2018-04-13, 09:30:55
Your jibe is out of date. The international ferries, Norway to Denmark, once Norway to Britain, and Sweden to Finland/Estonia, and once Germany/Poland, used to be places of binge drinking from port to port. The ferries were dirt cheap, it cost half as much to take the ferry from Norway to Newcastle than it cost to take the ferry from France to Britain across the channel, because the companies got their income from the food, drink and gambling. It was practically a rite of passage as soon as you were 18 and allowed to buy drinks aboard. Then you had drunken sex of course before or after you puked all over the floor (it's a boat after all, the waves can be heady).

That was 50 years ago, maybe even 30 years ago. But every year since the average age got about a year higher. Apart from those who actually use them to drive from one country to another (and can't drink), like truck drivers, the typical age by now is like the typical age at the opera. It's mostly retired people who take the trip now. They still drink, but can't drink as much as they used to. Then there are those who for one reason or another are bored of flying, but they generally don't drink so much. EU also happened, so the boats must pass through a tax-free haven to be tax exempt. That is, they either have to travel between Norway and an EU country, or stop at the Åland islands between Sweden and Finland.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2018-04-13, 22:13:05
You say my "jibe is out of date" and after that you answered nothing against.
Never saw such a factious person in my entire life. I suspect very much against you.

Time and time again is always the same thing.

Maybe you think that you fool people here, I assure you that you don't fool me.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2018-05-16, 08:31:26
Google News app expanded to the Baltic countries, yay!

Except that the sources for Estonia are in Russian only, primarily featuring Sputnik fake news mill (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sputnik_(news_agency)). Sources for Latvia are in English only. Sources for Lithuania are in Lithuanian (good), but you can't get e.g. Finnish news (dealbreaker), says this article https://tehnika.postimees.ee/4489140/google-news-pakub-eestlastele-ebameeldiva-ullatuse

Note: I personally never have taken a look at Google News app or site or whatever it is. I have browser bookmarks instead.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2018-05-16, 10:39:32
It doesn't look too bad but I don't really see the point of it.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2018-06-09, 11:41:50
This is primarily for the viewing pleasure of @Mr. Tennessee

https://youtu.be/ALsNFGGu6eQ
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2018-06-09, 20:00:08
@ersi I was at the Estonian embassy in Brussels today. :P
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2018-06-10, 05:54:40
@Frenzie Awesome. How did it go? (I've never been to Belgium. The only EU capital I have been to was Frankfurt.)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2018-06-10, 06:50:55
I had to be one street over. The picture I took on my phone didn't turn out very well but I'll post it in a bit. ;)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2018-06-10, 10:52:10
Here you go. :P

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Frans/Random/n-6nZJF/i-w5nRLT3/0/5ef96449/X3/i-w5nRLT3-X3.jpg) (https://photos.smugmug.com/Frans/Random/n-6nZJF/i-w5nRLT3/0/5ef96449/O/i-w5nRLT3.jpg)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2018-06-11, 06:26:22
Just the flag indicates something (and is there the EU flag next to it as it should be, just behind the tree?) and it's nearly a miracle you got it on camera. It's an as unimpressive building as the one next to it...
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2018-06-11, 21:00:36
Yes, the tree is hiding it.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2018-06-11, 23:13:40
It's an as unimpressive building
For an unimpressive country.
You don't need a more impressive embassy, it won't give you more EU funds.
Our embassy in Brussels is a shithole just like that and I think that's too much money spent with Belgians. A tent would be enough.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2018-06-12, 04:53:30
If I recall correctly the Estonian pavilion at the World Expo in Hanover (2000) was pretty impressive actually.

Edit: I recall correctly https://steemit.com/architecture/@refuel/world-expo-architecture-hannover-expo-2000-estonian-pavilion

I wonder how the Dutch pavillion's doing.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2018-06-30, 11:50:30
US ambassador to Estonia resigns (https://www.politico.eu/article/jim-melville-estonia-us-ambassador-to-estonia-resigns/)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2018-07-01, 07:15:59
Well then. :-/
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2018-07-01, 16:15:27

The full story is here https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/06/29/u-s-ambassador-to-estonia-resigns-in-disgust-after-trump-anti-europe-rants-nato-european-union-diplomacy-transatlantic-alliance/

I don't think that the rate of ambassador resignations is extraordinary. But the reasons are. Anyway, this is U.S. news really.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2018-07-01, 20:18:20
I wouldn't know, but I think in a way the bigger story is that in many places there are no replacements.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2018-07-01, 20:26:08
It's only a story if you think ambassadors serve an important purpose. Trump doesn't think so. He has many posts empty in the administration.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2018-07-30, 08:36:25
Tallinn named as one of the world's top cruise destinations
Quote from: http://www.baltic-course.com/eng/good_for_business/?doc=141860
...the top 5 destinations of the Baltic Sea and Scandinavia region are:
1. St. Petersburg;
2. Flam;
3. Tallinn;
4. Geiranger;
5. Copenhagen
What is "Flam"? Is it Flåm, Norway? And Tallinn is placed after that tiny village?
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2018-07-30, 11:38:39
Fjord tourism is among the more popular forms of cruise tourism. Not very surprising, given that staying on oversized ships is actually quite long-winded and pretty boring, and fjords add a bit of drama. The two destinations on the list, Flåm and Geiranger, are both on the same fjord. Flåm is part of a packaging deal, Norway in a Nutshell, where you mix/match the railroad between Oslo and Bergen, the connecting Flåm line (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fl%C3%A5m_Line) railroad to Flåm, terminus and port, cruise ships, bus, or bicycle. Then you take plane home from either Bergen or Oslo. You spend a weekend or a week, and you have "done" Norway. Next year New Zealand.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2018-08-01, 05:13:50
Lithuania warns Russian taxi app could be snooping on users

Quote from: https://apnews.com/b3ec89a7e65147b597972f781f1b4588
VILNIUS, Lithuania (AP) -- Lithuanian authorities on Tuesday "strongly" urged consumers, especially public servants, not to install the app of a popular Russian taxi-booking service because it may unlawfully be collecting user data.

Rytis Rainys, head of Lithuania's National Cyber security center, said they were running "various tests" of the Yandex Taxi application.

[...]

Aram Sargsyan, Yandex's global strategy director, told the Baltic News Service agency that the company "processes and stores data of (European Union) users strictly according to EU regulations" -- but said it was willing to submit itself to a check.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: krake on 2018-08-22, 19:37:15
Quote
A Swedish Air Force jet fighter crashed Tuesday near an air base in southern Sweden after striking several birds as it was about to land, Sweden's Armed Forces said.
source (https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/swedish-air-force-jas-39-fighter-jet-crashes-57302969)
"Birds down Swedish fighter jet. Russian ornithologists suspected."
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2018-08-22, 23:44:13
Quote
A Swedish Air Force jet fighter crashed Tuesday near an air base in southern Sweden after striking several birds as it was about to land, Sweden's Armed Forces said.
source (https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/swedish-air-force-jas-39-fighter-jet-crashes-57302969)
"Birds down Swedish fighter jet. Russian ornithologists suspected."
As Trump would say, those are fake news.. Russian ornithologists always were loyal to the USA. They have named a series of Russian birds with American names...

The world is entering that kind of mad euphoria that have always precede the start of hostilities. War for the western bourgeois is coming soon.
With their blood this time, instead those African / middle east "second level people".
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Barulheira on 2018-08-23, 11:43:37
The jet fighter invaded the birds' air space, which has belong to them for millennia. They just fought back.

Brave birds! Never surrender.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2018-08-28, 22:15:43
Then you take plane home from either Bergen or Oslo. You spend a weekend or a week, and you have "done" Norway. Next year New Zealand.
I propose a tourist hunting season every year at all countries. Your living room with the walls decorated with your tourist trophies, that's quality of life.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2018-10-02, 07:36:11
Phase III

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2lTSbDqm2s
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2018-10-19, 06:28:31

Court in Finland finds pro-Kremlin trolls guilty of harassing journalist (https://www.dw.com/en/court-in-finland-finds-pro-kremlin-trolls-guilty-of-harassing-journalist/a-45944893)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2018-10-23, 16:13:08
Outdoor games,

Northern Sweden and Finland play key role as NATO kicks off Trident Juncture (https://thebarentsobserver.com/en/2018/10/nato)

Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: krake on 2018-10-29, 17:11:23
Bars in downtown Reykjavík ran out of beer serving thirsty US sailors and marines (https://icelandmag.is/article/bars-downtown-reykjavik-ran-out-beer-serving-thirsty-us-sailors-and-marines?fbclid=IwAR01tSoTSLTDD3qOoqS3hSN-LRRPkg3oxh_YRGU0dHheRzST4Iw1FDmKMh4)
Quote
Several bars in downtown Reykjavík ran out of beer while serving thirsty US sailors and marines who were in port over the weekend participating in the NATO military exercises Trident Juncture.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ensbb3 on 2018-10-29, 19:33:34
Bars in downtown Reykjavík ran out of beer serving thirsty US sailors and marines

I'm not sure the point of that article. Were the bars under stocked? Unaccustomed to military ships on shore-leave? Were the personnel exceptionally thirsty or numerous? Hell, were they sailors, Marines or soldiers, or all the above? (all different things)

That is one of those articles where reading the headline is all you need. Nothing else was really said.  
Title: The point of the article
Post by: Barulheira on 2018-10-29, 19:47:20
They were American.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ensbb3 on 2018-10-29, 19:56:49
Oh, right. Them assholes. Spending their money in a foreign port, smh.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2018-10-30, 06:38:11
That was a fringe story to a bigger event, and somewhat exaggerated. Reykjavik is not that small town, and 6000 is not that a lot of soldiers. But military exercises tend to be in thinly populated areas that suddenly get a lot of people running around, driving around, and yes, drinking around. That they were American is besides the point, particularly in Iceland that is as Trans-Atlantic as you get. Geologically Reykjavik is on the American side of Iceland.

Back in my days the British had the bad reputation. They may have been specially trained soldiers, but also started the bar fights and trashed places. I think they cleaned that up decades ago. Today the running, shooting, driving and drinking passes on with little inconvenience to the locals (and some extra income for the local suppliers).
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2018-12-22, 07:39:29
For lack of an extraction plan:

First ever Arctic bank robber gets caught cold (https://www.thelocal.no/20181221/first-ever-arctic-bank-robbery-goes-south)

Quote
(https://www.thelocal.no/userdata/images/article/168312f52b15e84fbe393f1577c07bcd8e48098df9dba5b5e178e3faf5b2f0f0.jpg)

An armed man has robbed a bank in the world's northernmost settlement on Norway's remote Arctic archipelago of Svalbard but he was caught shortly afterwards, authorities said on Friday.


The heist was the first ever bank robbery in living memory in the territory, which is located in the Arctic Ocean, about halfway between continental Norway and the North Pole.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2018-12-23, 10:40:39
For lack of an extraction plan:
That seems like something you'd think about in advance.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Belfrager on 2018-12-23, 15:49:08
People don't act normal when living six months with no sun.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2018-12-24, 13:27:32
You may have a point. Another criminal with extraction issues, though much further to the south.


Would-be thief calls police from inside car he was trying to steal (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/24/norwegian-car-thief-calls-police-from-inside-vehicle-he-was-trying-to-steal)
Title: Volvo!
Post by: Barulheira on 2019-01-07, 10:28:39
We should replace our jails by Volvos.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: jax on 2019-01-08, 15:55:55
Don't know if you heard the Volvo 2020 vision (https://www.volvocars.com/en-ca/about/our-stories/vision-2020),

Quote
"Our vision is that by 2020 no one should be killed or seriously injured in a new Volvo car."
2020 is next year, so they might need a new vision soon. What about this proposal?

Quote
"Our vision is that by 2022 no one should be able to escape from a new Volvo car."
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2019-01-08, 16:48:02
Hehe, sounds challenging. :)
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2019-01-14, 14:04:29
https://www.eu-startups.com/2018/12/citybee-raises-funds/
Quote
With the costs of payments, insurance, and repairs, owning your own car can be a hassle. Vilnius-based car-sharing startup CityBee relieves you of these concerns by letting you easily rent a car through its app, starting at just €.14 per minute.

[...]

After acquiring all the planned vehicles, the Lithuanian startup will become one of the largest providers of car-sharing services in all of Europe, alongside giants like DriveNow, which is owned by BMW and has 6,000 cars.

We've been satisfied Cambio (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambio_CarSharing) subscribers for almost 4 years now, by the way.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2019-03-07, 11:59:07
This year I did not find any time to watch the skiing competitions or even follow news about them. By now it has turned out that Estonian high-profile skiing was pretty much knocked out by the crackdown at the World Cup in Seefeld, Austria. In the Estonian team, the highest coaches and team doctors have been implicated and it looks like all members were complicit.

https://news.err.ee/914922/two-estonian-skiers-held-in-austria-world-championships-doping-probe
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: Frenzie on 2019-03-07, 16:25:33
Even though it said doping, I guess I wasn't really expecting the words "organized crime ring."
Quote
''We had been monitoring suspects during the World Cup, round-the-clock, and we saw these five athletes on a regular basis with organised criminal groups, both before and during World Cup," Mr Csefan said, adding that a total of 120 people were involved in investigations and seizures, and 16 locations had been searched.
Title: Re: What's going on in Scandinavia, North Atlantic, Baltic States and Scotland?
Post by: ersi on 2019-03-07, 17:05:53
It was undeniably organised. The Estonian tandem Mati Alaver, headcoach of the national skiing team since 80's, and Vitali Bernatski, doctor-pharmacologist, have been internationally suspected since 2011 at the latest.

In other news, I missed the Estonian elections last week. Here is a random commentator https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99FB-1_KstI

Basically, the so-called Reform Party, equivalent of Swedish Moderaterna, regained the lead after one term in opposition. Otherwise they have always been in the lead ever since the inception of the party. The EKRE party that doubled its own share in parliament since last elections is not just euroskeptic, but the equivalent of Sverigedemokraterna of Sweden. Luckily it is not quite the equivalent of Nordiska Motståndsrörelsen.