The DnD Sanctuary

General => DnD Central => Topic started by: jax on 2014-01-02, 12:47:20

Poll
Question: Which
Option 1: 21st century architecture is better than earlier architecture votes: 2
Option 2: 21st century architecture is worse than earlier architecture votes: 1
Option 3: beer is better than either votes: 0
Title: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-01-02, 12:47:20
Buildings say a lot about the builders and the people who elect to use them. What buildings of this century would you like to highlight and why? Which are the best? Which are the worst? Which are interesting, which are boring? Which ones probably wouldn't be made before or after? How will they affect the neighbourhood, how would they age?

What can we say about current architecture? What should we be quiet about? What are the hopes and fears?
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-01-02, 14:59:35
I think one of the best developments we're seeing is (near) energy-neutral buildings. I believe starting in 2015 already, all new houses in Brussels have to be (near) energy-neutral. Although we live in an ancient apartment, we already treat it as if it were energy neutral by simply closing the living-room door. Our body heat combined with a computer or two usually suffice to keep it at 17-18°, and only when it's freezing, especially when there's also wind, is the occasional intervention from the furnace required. The thermostat is set to 17°.

Lest you think we live in a fairly nice and modern apartment, we don't. Only the living room has double glazing, and even so insulation is abysmal. The ceiling is higher than necessary at 3.2m (2.5m should do), and doubtless badly insulated too. I don't understand the high ceilings anyway. Remove those 70-80cm of unnecessary height from each apartment and you've got another apartment! Of course, that's a question for the architects in 1960 or whenever this place was constructed; it's hardly something that can be changed now.

What I fear is that usable space won't improve. By being more efficient with height, you can give everyone more space without much of a significant cost. Instead, landlords seem to make the apartments in height-efficient buildings even smaller, akin to the dystopia in Billennium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billennium_(short_story)). Except my fear relates not to overpopulation--at least, we've had the technology to stop that for decades--but to unbridled capitalism. That is, I think we need norms not only about energy use, but also more about livability both inside and outside the house.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: ersi on 2014-01-02, 15:09:25
All the highrise buildings highlighted in media this century are very bad. Since I generally don't follow architecture news, I don't know of any positive examples. From what I've seen, small-scale city-planning (I hope this is the right term) has been forgotten, even though small-scale planning would be the saving grace for the planet. Land is being given away for corporate highrise buildings in ever larger chunks. There may be some amusing specimens among the buildings produced, but I haven't noticed any edifying or ergonomic or economic ones.

@Frenzie
I don't even know what energy-neutral means, but sure this great innovation will reach our place too in no time. It comes from Brussels, so it must be absolutely fabulous. The previous great innovation that we blindly adopted (looks like irreversibly) was the "saving" lightbulbs that cost ten times more than previous lightbulbs and burn through ten times faster (literally) because here in our dark climate you need to switch the lights on and off often and those things are not built for that. Also, the new bulbs don't emit heat like the old bulbs did. Heat is really vital in our climate. The old bulbs are already prohibited and not in sales here. Some smart people bought up large stocks in time.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-01-02, 15:26:02
It comes from Brussels, so it must be absolutely fabulous.

Don't confuse Brussels the arrondissement with the EU government. :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-energy_house

Btw, halogen lights are just as inefficient as traditional bulbs. Our halogen light actually contributes a fair bit to living room heating.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Belfrager on 2014-01-02, 23:46:36
Ah ah, one of mine preferred threads. :)
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-01-03, 01:32:07
The original thread was quite graphics intensive (http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=1650222), we'll see how this one works out.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: ersi on 2014-01-03, 03:22:47

It comes from Brussels, so it must be absolutely fabulous.

Don't confuse Brussels the arrondissement with the EU government. :)
I don't, but there are sure signs that the EU government has always been confused about this.


The original thread was quite graphics intensive (http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=1650222), we'll see how this one works out.
I can confirm what I said earlier. I spot no likeable architecture, none existing and none upcoming. Of course, I must admit that I am heavily biased in favour of the countryside.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: ersi on 2014-01-03, 09:20:49
And, for example, you don't seem right for me about the "switching problem": it's exactly the opposite as I could judge by 1) their "construction", 2) my own experience with them

It's hard to define the switching problem. It could be something to do with my ancient wires and/or voltage instability. Anyway, the old bulbs lasted just fine and they emitted proper heat. The old burning bulb really burns!

And I consider the invitation to come shopping seriously. It's been too long since I was in Russia.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-01-03, 09:38:07
A mammal like homo needs 1) air, 2) air. Are you an ant?
I hate the dystopya you tend to configure: the rooms become lower and lower, and people who don't fit the current 1m ceiling get eliminated. Right? Carve a cave for yourself and live there, will you, and leave us the eternity.

You might have a point insofar as people larger than 2.10m or so are concerned, but since my primary point is to insulate the damn floor, ceiling & roof (and outside-facing walls) it's an implementation detail and hardly a dystopia. Also, in this place the doors are a mere 2m so it's really not like they were being the least bit considerate of tall people. I also advocated for compensating for the loss of useless vertical space, especially space exceeding 3m, by more than making up for it in horizontal space.

As far as I get, they don't seem halogen for me. You must be mistaken... In what we had in question.

Ok, so a quartz-halogen bulb is 3-4% efficient compared to the ye olde bulb's ±2%. So sue me, it contributes 1% less to room heating. :P
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-01-03, 09:50:23
Unless you're saying that incandescents are bad for people because they're bad for cacti, what's your point? :right:
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: ersi on 2014-01-03, 11:54:14

Unless you're saying that incandescents are bad for people because they're bad for cacti, what's your point? :right:

To everything I said previously, I can also add that they are near-perceptibly flickering, and this is another dead serious point to me, as I am a book-reading person. I hate cold light. I hate their colour range. I hate flickering. I hate it that they burn out fast in my particular lamps. What is there to like? Will they save the world somehow, like electric cars were supposed to?
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-01-03, 12:16:00
Funny, the flickering is the primary reason I don't mind seeing traditional bulbs go--although I think it's quite fair to say that incandescent halogen bulbs are the direct continuation of traditional incandescent bulbs.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-01-03, 13:31:54
I was just pointing out that you could not fully understand the differences between the types of lighting devices.
For example, you mentioned halogens - but they're not the same as fluorescents,

I said halogens are an evolution of incandescent light bulbs. If they're not they're not, but fluorescents are unrelated to that statement. I grew up with some rather pleasant fluorescent tubes in our living room--much nicer light than any classic incandescent bulb I've seen. (These were not, of course, those unpleasantly white industrial fluorescents.)
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-01-03, 13:43:34
(These were not, of course, those unpleasantly white industrial fluorescents.)
Maybe.
I suppose that, being of the same construction in principle, they may differ widely in their perceptible output depending on the purpose they're produced for.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-01-03, 14:00:04
As far as I know, halogens have quite long been a different type of lamps than both incandescent and fluorescent.

A traditional bulb is filled with e.g. nitrogen or argon; a halogen bulb is (obviously) additionally filled with some kind of halogen like iodine. This is supposed to greatly increase longevity as well as to minutely increase efficiency. My ten-year-old daily-used halogen bulb still seems to be going strong, so I guess that's at least one data point in favor.

For what it's worth, I just read the specification for one of those ones I'm now using (energy saving "white light" ones), and the Russian term has no "halogen" translations

A halogen bulb is not a savings bulb.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-01-03, 14:25:18
A halogen bulb is not a savings bulb.
Indeed!
Quote from: Light & lighting for succulent plants
  Quartz halogen lamps produce a clean white light, at a colour temperature of about 3500°K*, extending into the blue and ultraviolet part of the spectrum which is moderately hazardous to eyes and skin during prolonged exposure. There is also considerable production of infra-red in the form of radiant heat which, at close range, may scorch foliage and other delicate materials. It is inadvisable to stare at unfiltered quartz halogen lamps as their high filament brightness, heat and ultraviolet emission may cause irreversible eye-damage.
*
Quote from: same
Typical Colour Temperatures
1000°K: candle, oil lamp
2000°K: sunrise & sunset, high pressure sodium lamps
2700°K: "warm white" fluorescent lamps
2850°K: ordinary tungsten household bulb
3000°K: studio lamps, photofloods
3500°K: quartz halogen lamps
4000°K: clear flashbulbs, blue photofloods
4100°K: "cool white" fluorescent lamps
5000°K: blue flashbulbs, electronic flash, average daylight
6000°K: bright midday sun, Metal Halide (HID) lamps
7000°K: lightly overcast sky
8000°K: hazy sky
10,000°K: heavily overcast sky
11,000°K: blue sky, no sun
20,000°K: shadows in mountains on a clear day
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: ersi on 2014-01-03, 15:18:58
A halogen bulb is not a savings bulb.
See, I am not good with that terminology. The Brussels regulation as propagated over here talks about savings bulbs only, not about what they technologically are. Again, definitions are important. I don't know if it's halogen or whatever. All I know for sure is that the old bulbs were better in several ways, but they have been replaced in shops with something less manageable, called savings bulbs.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-01-03, 15:31:40
It was probably my fault. What I meant was that if you don't like savings bulbs, you can always try halogen bulbs. Many require different fittings, but they're also available with classic fittings. Afaik halogen bulbs aren't nearly as prone to breaking as those "savings" bulbs are.

If it's true that I can't easily buy classical bulbs anymore because of regulations (or at all), that doesn't sound good for the environment. I get the impression that the lifetime of a savings bulb depends primarily on the number of times it's switched on and off. I guess I could leave it on while I'm not in the room, but that'd do quite the opposite of saving anything.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-01-03, 15:35:08
...if you don't like savings bulbs, you can always try halogen bulbs.
Quote
...which is moderately hazardous to eyes and skin during prolonged exposure. There is also considerable production of infra-red in the form of radiant heat which, at close range, may scorch foliage and other delicate materials. It is inadvisable to stare at unfiltered quartz halogen lamps as their high filament brightness, heat and ultraviolet emission may cause irreversible eye-damage.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-01-03, 16:03:38
Okay, ignore halogen bulbs from places where they've never heard of anti-UV coating. Actually that's part of the reason for the specialized fittings on models without it; they fit only in a light with a separate filter/protection.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-01-05, 02:16:11
Modern European houses are getting good at retaining heat in winter time, a major energy loss. In Norway triple glazing (two insolating layers in windows) is standard. However the big challenge will be to keep cities cool in summer, most cities are much further to the south than European cities are. Energy wasted will turn into heat, which will waste more energy to get rid of. How can we build buildings that don't get hot, and how can we lead the heat away?

Each man his A/C is not the solution.
(https://i0.wp.com/www.chinasmack.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/fuzhou-china-air-conditioner-wall-01.jpg)
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: ersi on 2014-01-05, 05:17:15
Jax, read about this technique http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_tower

In hot dry areas they have known how to build houses for millennia. Did people become stupid all of a sudden? Granted, it's not good for hot and wet areas, but surely there's some ingenious indigenous technique there too, if we are just smart enough to appreciate it.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-01-05, 09:02:03
Insulation techniques, whether natural (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1278430/Why-ivy-creeping-walls-home-actually-protect-building-thanks-thermal-shield.html) of artificial (I'd say preferably a little of both) help both with keeping warm and keeping cool, as ersi's link illustrates. I suspect both south-east China and Japan should already have better solutions for their climate than a building style imported from the US or northern Europe, or otherwise they might look to import from the Italian north or the southern US--then again, the southern US might be where they first started foregoing any attempts to build appropriate to the local climate and instead just stuck in A/Cs.

It seems obvious to me that you need exterior shutters to keep solar heat out in summer. Shutters or curtains inside the house might help a little, but it's really already too late. (For that matter, if you drop 'em at night in winter I'm sure they help just a little bit more with insulation too.) In Dallas they seem to have heard of shutters (http://www.houzz.com/photos/1971118/Aluminum-Shutters-Inspiration-contemporary-exterior-dallas), so why not in Fuzhou? Okay, that's a bit of a facetious question, but if you install an A/C it should be some kind of addition to techniques that have existed for millennia, preferably but not necessarily brought into the twenty-first century, not a replacement for long-proven techniques.

Edit: Looks like Louisiana has a so-called passive house (http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/green-building-news/following-passive-house-deep-south). In other words: we have the technology, and despite its present small scale it's apparently no more than about 5% more expensive. The rest is politics.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Colonel Rebel on 2014-02-06, 01:07:47
Not a whole lot of 21st century architecture here in my area, but the little bit that has been built has been impressive.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-02-07, 13:06:40
London is apparently not so big on the 21st century architecture. ;)

Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: ensbb3 on 2014-02-07, 13:32:46
Each man his A/C is not the solution.


Cooling buildings by digging underground conduits to circulate air thru isn't terribly new but has recently become more popular in public buildings here. Most all schools built in this district at or since 2000 use this technique.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Jimbro3738 on 2014-02-07, 13:42:20
I know that you jest, Frenzied one, but take a look at the so-called Gherkin building in London. I didn't give it that name, but it does resemble a pickle. :P

(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/banana050.gif)
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Belfrager on 2014-02-19, 21:31:33
What can we say about current architecture?

Most of it is made for turn people into automatons.

Fascism created an extraordinary architecture (rapidly imitated  by communists) that transmitted ideology and propaganda.
Today's architecture delivers emptiness and mediocrity.

The only architecture I'm interested these days it's survival and sustainable architecture. Time to regress, as in a circle.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 13:20:46
Prepare to be thread dumped.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 13:21:08
Quote from: Frenzie
I like how the Antwerp Central Station incorporated the new with the old.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 13:22:12
Quote from: jax





(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rail.co.uk%2Fimages%2F3059%2Foriginal%2F7-antwerp-lower-level-platf.jpg&hash=a564abf1cf198fc2f94dd1845cfa90a7" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.rail.co.uk/images/3059/original/7-antwerp-lower-level-platf.jpg)
Quote from: Frenzie
I like how the Antwerp Central Station incorporated the new with the old.
This one?
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 13:23:18
Quote from: Frenzie
Yup, but I don't like that picture.

Edit: I think this picture does a better job of a similar view http://www.flickr.com/photos/hyp_/5094001420/

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm5.staticflickr.com%2F4089%2F5094001420_cf89848217.jpg&hash=fa1b469c520b191d59920f2a7b53a9d7" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4089/5094001420_cf89848217.jpg)
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 13:24:44
Quote from: jax
The reconstruction of Antwerp Central Station started in 1998, 20th century, but it is is still within the period as the reconstruction was completed in 2007, this century.

That made me realize that this building too will be a showcase of 21st century architecture when it is done in 2026 or thereabout, even though it started in the 19th century, in 1882:

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyehearttravel.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F05%2Finside_sagrada_familia_by_amna_alq-d3ali0o.jpg&hash=5538b32d7739c7e557e7aeeffaf7838b" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.eyehearttravel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/inside_sagrada_familia_by_amna_alq-d3ali0o.jpg)
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 13:25:40
Quote from: jax
We also got prior art from this forum. I wanted to add something from the Grand Rapids, but all the constructions there seem to be from the previous millennium. But do not despair, there are plenty others threads to pick at.

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fmysteryoftheinquity.files.wordpress.com%2F2011%2F03%2Fastana1.jpg&hash=e4f24a9cce78ca2c6f850fe4525dd9f5" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://mysteryoftheinquity.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/astana1.jpg)
Astana, Kazakhstan (http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=14060422) Palace of Peace and Reconciliation, 2006


(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fad009cdnb.archdaily.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F11%2F50a642efb3fc4b46eb000061_galaxy-soho-zaha-hadid-architects-by-hufton-crow_zh_galaxy_soho_010.jpg&hash=d36acddce3807cb5adbafcfb4b4b4d9d" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://ad009cdnb.archdaily.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/50a642efb3fc4b46eb000061_galaxy-soho-zaha-hadid-architects-by-hufton-crow_zh_galaxy_soho_010.jpg)
Beijing, China (http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=14064772) SOHO Galaxy, 2013


(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi245.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fgg64%2Fz0rgggg%2Fanother%2520one%2F1-111222113320Y9.jpg&hash=66d59066fd81f399994b13cfe547ff0c" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg64/z0rgggg/another%20one/1-111222113320Y9.jpg)Beijing, China (http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=12328162) Rainbow Gate, Tongzhou, under construction


(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zaha-hadid.com%2Fwp-content%2Ffiles_mf%2Fcache%2Fth_65d1300db123ce22f6e2569fb36764f8_04aerialview.jpg&hash=7a21cd9e6386b4aac46ea4344023392d" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.zaha-hadid.com/wp-content/files_mf/cache/th_65d1300db123ce22f6e2569fb36764f8_04aerialview.jpg)Changsha, China (http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=14064772) Meixihu International Culture and Art Centre, under construction


(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.environewsnigeria.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F10%2FEko-1.jpg&hash=59ffd3e1e7fd17d4de25b96119493403" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.environewsnigeria.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Eko-1.jpg)
Lagos, Nigeria (http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=13969462) Eko Atlantic City, under construction


(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FtEwojvx.jpg&hash=a099b46a513b71ec8660d9804eafaeaa" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/tEwojvx.jpg)
Oslo, Norway (http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=14055182) Tjuvholmen 2012-2013


(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi1163.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fq554%2FDarmonRichter%2FUrbex%2FThe%2520Ryugyong%2520Hotel%2FBohemian-Blog-Urbex-Urban-Exploration-Ryugyong-Hotel-Pyongyang-North-Korea-1.jpg&hash=980afe1a964cbc9365f9f77867c315b9" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q554/DarmonRichter/Urbex/The%20Ryugyong%20Hotel/Bohemian-Blog-Urbex-Urban-Exploration-Ryugyong-Hotel-Pyongyang-North-Korea-1.jpg)
Pyongyang, North Korea (http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=14062852), Ryugyong hotel, under construction


(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn3.spiegel.de%2Fimages%2Fimage-476416-galleryV9-zduy.jpg&hash=ade286a028c82a9e77f202aa4ac56d82" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://cdn3.spiegel.de/images/image-476416-galleryV9-zduy.jpg)
Shanghai, China (http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=14029382) Shimao Wonderland Intercontinental, under construction


(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FGHnPv.jpg&hash=b8ee5b9b4bd8539fda5cc2cc1b440163" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/GHnPv.jpg)
Tianjin, China (http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=14041112) Tanggu, "Manhattan" under construction
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 13:26:38
Quote from: jax
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.s-kai.de%2Ffileadmin%2Fimages_content%2Flage%2Fhafencity%2Fhafencity_karte_zoom.jpg&hash=7b343e657fd947ba19a695242ce3831b" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.s-kai.de/fileadmin/images_content/lage/hafencity/hafencity_karte_zoom.jpg)Moving on, we have HafenCity in Hamburg, to be done 10-15 years from now. Spiegel wrote a loving article, Hamburg's New Quarter: The Challenge of Making HafenCity Feel Neighborly (http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/hamburg-s-new-quarter-the-challenge-of-making-hafencity-feel-neighborly-a-714008.html)
Quote from: Spiegel
Hamburg's new quarter is one of the largest urban development projects underway in the world today. But will it be successful? City planners are hoping that their application of an academic field known as environmental psychology will do the trick.
But how to ensure that success? How can one make certain that this very important piece of real estate actually becomes a living, breathing part of the city -- a place where people want to both work and spend their leisure time? Indeed, how can one guarantee that a brand new neighborhood actually feels neighborly?

Strolling through HafenCity on an overcast, late-summer evening is enough to make anyone feel the weight of such questions. It remains difficult to get here with several roads blocked by construction sites and taxis a rarity. During the day, a never-ending stream of trucks cause noisy, dusty traffic jams. While some in Hamburg are optimistic, calling the development "Hamburg's most beautiful construction site," others are less kind, referring to it as an "architectural zoo." For the moment, both are accurate. Many of the new structures are certainly aesthetically pleasing, but HafenCity does not feel like a city center. In fact, apart from a couple of lit windows and one or two pedestrians out with their dogs, it feels like nothing so much as an oversized ghost town.

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.portofhamburg.com%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fview.jpg&hash=f117e766e58256749eaef60c7a7db2e3" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.portofhamburg.com/sites/default/files/view.jpg)

Some fear it could remain that way and that high property prices could seal the new quarter's fate as a "rich man's ghetto" full of wealthy pensioners. Such concerns have been fueled by forecasts estimating that up to 10 percent of office space in Hamburg's city center will stand empty by the end of 2010. [...]

A multi-faceted discipline, environmental psychology enjoyed a lot of attention in the 1970s and '80s and launched its own publication, the Journal of Environmental Psychology, in 1980. With its broad definition of environment -- used to include social, physical, architectural and other elements -- it has since been used to get shoppers to buy more in malls, to encourage environmentally friendly behavior and even to determine whether indoor plants are good for your mental health.

HafenCity is one of the most significant developments utilizing elements of environmental psychology today. Indeed, Jürgen Bruns-Berentelg, the executive chairman of HafenCity Hamburg GmbH, which is overseeing the development, seems downright enthusiastic about what he describes as the psychological development of "a post-modern community."

"At the end of the day, physical structures are also social and cultural," Bruns-Berentelg notes.

These psychological tricks must have worked, because a couple years later Spiegel moved ... to HafenCity.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 13:27:19
Quote from: Frenzie
I quite like the look of that Norse museum, but some of those Chinese things just look gaudy. Still, the Galaxy Soho looks pretty nice. It reminds me of the corncobs in Chicago (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marina_City), although I suppose in this case it's more like two beehives. The Ryugyong hotel actually doesn't look half bad with the glass (photoshopped?) in, although it has more of a retro-futurist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Futurist_architecture) look than a 21st century one.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 13:28:14
Quote from: jax
The SOHO Galaxy is just the newest, and biggest, of a number of SOHO properties. It's massive, especially up close (I was looking at an apartment in a building next door when it was still under construction, turned my head around a corner and saw this death star right in front of me), but it is also on a really expensive piece of real estate. Most of the SOHOs are quite eye-catching, and they do have well-designed offices. They have by the look of it managed to get a huge amount of office space, but still keeping it light and with good passage ways. Some others:


















Sanlitun SOHO (right)
Sanlitun, at the edge of the embassy district, and once at the edge of the city, is now the main upscale and foreigner shopping and entertainment district. This one hasn't filled up and is quite dead after hours, but the shopping/rest complex across the street is thriving, with among other things the largest Temple of Apple.
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm7.staticflickr.com%2F6227%2F6319090531_1e26c4bfcb_z.jpg&hash=6a40d0e79fde45b33a254013ba33dad9" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6227/6319090531_1e26c4bfcb_z.jpg)
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rayallychina.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2009%2F12%2FDec12_Soho.jpg&hash=5207223be2b225c4c6189ce3040bdf70" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.rayallychina.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Dec12_Soho.jpg)Chaowai SOHO (left)
This building, inspired by Hakka circular fortresses (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hakka_walled_village), probably is most noteworthy for housing the Opera Software offices in Beijing.
Guanghualu SOHO (right)
More shopping (lower floors) than offices (upper floors).
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.guanghualusoho.com%2Fassets%2Fproperty%2Fguanghualu%2Fgallery%2Fmodules%2FGuanghualu_module8-location.jpg&hash=6b68d5d9dc7ef26ce5476d4fa4be64cf" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.guanghualusoho.com/assets/property/guanghualu/gallery/modules/Guanghualu_module8-location.jpg)
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-ge4zIaDtBtg%2FUB57IWQ45NI%2FAAAAAAAAJIY%2F5-p5EcNfYb0%2Fs1600%2F5c6744d1.jpg&hash=c81c0d4051c9c4ce833f60c8dc9d7202" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ge4zIaDtBtg/UB57IWQ45NI/AAAAAAAAJIY/5-p5EcNfYb0/s1600/5c6744d1.jpg)SOHO Shangdu (left)
This one is kind of nice to walk by.
Wangjing SOHO
Next year's project, another Zaha Hadid, but taller. In Wangjing, an upcoming peripheral district that is a bit of a Korean town.
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Flh6.ggpht.com%2F-SOk-GDc3G4Q%2FUjgk-qmfwLI%2FAAAAAAAANFc%2FfyEmjHqIi4Y%2Fs1024%2FP1270029wangjing-soho.jpg&hash=e71f03ec14808115828d1596c5700042" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://lh6.ggpht.com/-SOk-GDc3G4Q/Ujgk-qmfwLI/AAAAAAAANFc/fyEmjHqIi4Y/s1024/P1270029wangjing-soho.jpg)
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 13:28:57
Quote from: ensbb3
An interesting subject.

I like to give an eye to the future with architecture. Not just how modern does it look now but how out of place will it look 20 years from now and further down the road. You need only to drive thru a housing development or tower complex from the seventies to see what I mean. Superfluous design beyond function meant to be modern, now torn down as the ugly eyesores they are. Boxy, protruding plains and yuck glass incorporated in gaudy amounts. Such will be the way of glass bubbles and odd architectural curves in the future.

I think it best to give a wink to the past classical styles while incorporating the curves and modern glass design. Simple really is better. There are limited prospectives to any building. you can only take in so much. If detail destroys the the overall shape from a distance or the function gets lost in design you're doing it wrong. The most brilliant aesthetics are useless in a building that can't or won't be adapted for future use. When the cost of renovation exceeds the worth of the building in the near future you're, again, doing it wrong.

Buildings are getting cheaper (per size) and easier to make in whatever shape you want. That's only going to get more true. You want buildings that are an icon for the era into the future. Not a fad of design.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 13:29:42
Quote from: Sanguinemoon
The Cosmopolitan of Las Vegas:

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fm.escapes.ca%2Fmedia%2Fthumbs%2Fhotels%2F9390%2Flarge%2F01-cosmopolitan-las-vegas.jpg&hash=d2fc14da9bca809e71b5f0a00403289d" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://m.escapes.ca/media/thumbs/hotels/9390/large/01-cosmopolitan-las-vegas.jpg)
It was almost not built and faced foreclosure, with the economy heading into a downward spiral. It was sued by Cosmopolitan Magazine for the name (It was originally going to be just the Cosmopolitan, but the name had to be changed to the The  Cosmopolitan of Las Vegas to make the lawyers happy :rolleyes: It was going to 2,200 condominium units, but that had to be reduced because of the recession, so it got sued for that, too.

This is the Chandelier Bar inside the Cosmo (now I'll probably get sued :p )

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.oyster.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F01%2FChandelier_CosmopolitanLasVegas.jpg&hash=6becef98b3d4e1070e0cc3afcf9fa03c" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://blog.oyster.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Chandelier_CosmopolitanLasVegas.jpg)

I didn't take that picture, but I've been there. It's not my taste, personally.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 13:31:14
Quote from: jax
Quote from: Frenzie
The Ryugyong hotel actually doesn't look half bad with the glass (photoshopped?) in, although it has more of a retro-futurist look than a 21st century one.


To me this is a very egotistical building. Tall and thin skyscrapers are fine, as are smaller squat buildings. But when they are tall and wide like here they are taking away a lot of light without giving anything back. A lot of buildings will be in its shadow most of the day. And since each wing is relatively narrow, it actually doesn't add a lot of usable hotel, now mixed, space. I am sure there is a lot more usable space in SOHO Galaxy than in Ryugyong, without being one tower to rule them all. Mirror glass cladding is what it took to make the building looking less of a ruined husk.

The building is supposed to be in Simcity for Facebook, as "Fortress of ultimate Woe".
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fimages1.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20120830075449%2Fsimcitysocial%2Fimages%2Fc%2Fce%2FFortress_of_Ultimate_Woe.jpg&hash=2a4a41a1bcf9ca366432445bb8bea884" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120830075449/simcitysocial/images/c/ce/Fortress_of_Ultimate_Woe.jpg)
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 13:32:17
Quote from: jax





(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.blouinartinfo.com%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2F20120705shard_promo1.png&hash=b247f051d4775a641e73973ac2515e50" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.blouinartinfo.com/sites/default/files/20120705shard_promo1.png)
Quote from: Frenzie
I quite like the look of that Norse museum

The architect of this museum is the Italian Renzo Piano. In Britain probably best known for the Shard (above), in France for Centre Georges Pompidou (not pictured for being previous millenium).


Name architects do make their mark. Take Zaha Hadid, with the arts centre and SOHO buildings above.

This is Bratislava:

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fplacepics.triposo.com%2FBratislava.jpeg&hash=567696fe31a70b46891d4d65eda23871" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://placepics.triposo.com/Bratislava.jpeg)


This is Bratislava on Hadid:

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fc1038.r38.cf3.rackcdn.com%2Fgroup5%2Fbuilding44995%2Fmedia%2Fqeow_zaha1big.jpg&hash=0ee6e228c8d2d5e280e249c00aa48ef2" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://c1038.r38.cf3.rackcdn.com/group5/building44995/media/qeow_zaha1big.jpg)
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 13:33:11
Quote from: Frenzie
Quote from: jax
The architect of this museum is the Italian Renzo Piano. In Britain probably best known for the Shard (left), in France for Centre Georges Pompidou (not pictured for being previous millenium).

Interesting.
Quote from: jax
To me this is a very egotistical building. Tall and thin skyscrapers are fine, as are smaller squat buildings. But when they are tall and wide like here they are taking away a lot of light without giving anything back.

Wholly agreed.
Quote from: jax
And since each wing is relatively narrow, it actually doesn't add a lot of usable hotel, now mixed, space.

And that might well be because otherwise much of the inside wouldn't have had natural light. Which perhaps ironically makes it so. much. worse.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 13:34:31
Quote from: jax
Quote from: ensbb3
I like to give an eye to the future with architecture. Not just how modern does it look now but how out of place will it look 20 years from now and further down the road. You need only to drive thru a housing development or tower complex from the seventies to see what I mean. Superfluous design beyond function meant to be modern, now torn down as the ugly eyesores they are. Boxy, protruding plains and yuck glass incorporated in gaudy amounts. Such will be the way of glass bubbles and odd architectural curves in the future.

Stewart Brand's book How Buildings Learn, and the series based on the book comes strongly recommended.



When I look at a building, I add a couple decades aging, grime, and a few years with insufficient maintenance. Curvatures and bubbles are fine, but you have to realise that they close a building in on itself, much like a hedgehog. White is a popular colour, but will only remain so if cleaned regularly.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 13:35:33
Quote from: ensbb3
Something else to look at is usefulness. What else can it be used for and reasonably converted to? A good example from my neck of the woods is "The Great American Pyramid". Which is in no way great for anything. The fact it's an iconic structure in Memphis, Tennessee is the only reason it is still standing.

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2Fb%2Fb4%2FPyramidArena.jpg%2F500px-PyramidArena.jpg&hash=bae58bc102946d1a1737f11f32f8af9a" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b4/PyramidArena.jpg/500px-PyramidArena.jpg)

The cost to upgrade to any kind of modern stadium left it empty for a good while. It's completely nonstandard. Saved only by a retail store. Who knows what incentives the city had to offer to get it occupied. What cost has look over function cost them? I doubt they'll say.

Seems your book is gonna take some if not most of my arguments, if the summary is any indication. If there's a bit about compartmentalising sections so to make renovation part of the design I'll be without points. As a builder I understand the need to standardize construction and the durability of materials. Cost is a big factor for buildings only decades old. I can estimate a job easily if I know the method used to build it. I don't have to tear into a wall to tell you what's there or what it will take to redesign/replace/restore. But nonstandard construction mean you won't know what is really there until you get into it and any parts will have to be manufactured specifically for the job. Cost skyrockets quickly and price per unit of a special order, say, curved window is higher and decades later materials may not even be the same (so more cost depending on the variances). And when restoring old you quickly find the worth is measured by what the building mean to the community (individuals) vs moneys of renovation/restoration (whoever fronts the bill). Often more money is spent to restore than a new structure would cost regardless, but without the presence and meaning behind it, fancy architecture can become useless junk when it's worth less money to put something else there that's much better.

Sustainability seems just as important to me as how pleasing it is to look at. Also not taking away from the older buildings around it is nicer to me. You can build a uber-modern district in a city, but you just wrote it's epitaph. It's lost its place 50 years from now when they just build a new district. I like the history and the future to stand together in a pleasing way.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 13:36:29
Quote from: jax




Urban architecture is commonly divided into brownfields, land with previous (industrial) constructions, and greenfields with none, where there are no constraints except the ones the regulators and clients come up with. The former tend to end up better than the later. I have seen some try to introduce bluefields for water reclamation projects, but after the reclamation is done it is basically greenfield. Bjørvika in Oslo and Eko Atlantic in Lagos (above (http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=14095812)) are examples of that.

Most Chinese development is greenfield, if there are any previous buildings they are torn down, turning the plot into a greenfield. The same goes for much African and Asian development. Cities in rapid growth are mostly greenfield, where tilled fields are turned into urban areas, while cities in slow growth are mostly brownfield, as buildings slowly accumulate and become more urban. European cities had their greenfield phase by the late industrial revolution (second half of 19th century mostly), while now the brownfield projects predominate.

Nydalen (the New Valley), a light industrial area outside my window, has had both. This had late 19th century industry clustered along the river for energy, turning into much larger plants and steel mills, which when they lost in competition with the districts, were sold to a developer who repackaged it and turned it into a massive profit for himself (about 10,000 years' worth of wages) and a rejuvenation of the district from warehousing to tech, education, and media. Opera Software moved their new HQ there. Me, I cannot complain as this redevelopment has led to my flat being worth at least 1 years more of wages.  Anyway, I like the way the 19th century factories have been turned in offices, residential, schools, and entertainment. By Frenzie's first example I guess he thinks likewise.

I couldn't find any good sample of the 19th/21st century architecture I was looking for, from the above angle it might as well be 1899.
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fmw2.google.com%2Fmw-panoramio%2Fphotos%2Fmedium%2F10280029.jpg&hash=1a9ec7c309181b710e7b6f9c507ce3dd" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/10280029.jpg)
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 13:37:35
Quote from: Frenzie
Quote from: ensbb3
Sustainability seems just as important to me as how pleasing it is to look at. Also not taking away from the older buildings around it is nicer to me. You can build a uber-modern district in a city, but you just wrote it's epitaph. It's lost its place 50 years from now when they just build a new district. I like the history and the future to stand together in a pleasing way.

America seems to be worse at this than we are. I recently even saw some opinion piece in the NYT (I think) that said desert land in California was just rotting away. Okay, different category, but it's a similar sentiment.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 13:38:37
Quote from: jax
There is a post-millennial style that I dub North European because I've seen it most often there, the South Europeans have mostly been busy with austerity. The buildings are large, boxy, have large balconies, and angular with irregular details and exposed material. They are typically in reclaimed industrial or seafaring areas.  In part newer environmental and accessibility building codes have an impact on the design. Interestingly many of these projects look better up close than from a distance. Pictures from Oslo,  Malmö, Hamburg, Prague.














(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fisdronningen.vgb.no%2Ffiles%2F2010%2F07%2Fnydalen.jpg&hash=85982681ec3cc7746d3df7e7e66d6b69" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://isdronningen.vgb.no/files/2010/07/nydalen.jpg)(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fnwt.se%2Fmultimedia%2Fdynamic%2F00769%2F1352432_jpg_769566img699.jpg&hash=f2bd7ca67b0807f98b418195c0f87559" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://nwt.se/multimedia/dynamic/00769/1352432_jpg_769566img699.jpg)
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm9.staticflickr.com%2F8051%2F8086693082_98b54fcdbb_b.jpg&hash=3411f5553109b57f1c863b3dd66871f0" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8051/8086693082_98b54fcdbb_b.jpg)(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm9.staticflickr.com%2F8334%2F8095118527_c9ebae47e2_b.jpg&hash=57e8d2ea62dc87aa680909aeee6d9314" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8334/8095118527_c9ebae47e2_b.jpg)
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fmw2.google.com%2Fmw-panoramio%2Fphotos%2Fmedium%2F26620934.jpg&hash=5c0af8b8e209db533bd14ca9e9fc7c46" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/26620934.jpg)(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi119.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo122%2FrealJot%2Fhh%2Fhafencity_1_zpsf9b45a1e.jpg%3Aoriginal&hash=7620156db601c1bd65f5d3019c69d65f" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o122/realJot/hh/hafencity_1_zpsf9b45a1e.jpg:original)
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ceeqa.com%2Fdata%2Fpictures%2Fshortlist13%2Foffice-hld%2F03a.jpg&hash=725d51f0b316f9b4699bc04c3ea57203" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.ceeqa.com/data/pictures/shortlist13/office-hld/03a.jpg)
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 13:39:42
Quote from: jax
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.qataridiar.com%2Fenglish%2Fourprojects%2Fprojects%2520images%2Fmushaireb%2Fgallery%2Fmushairebbig-3.jpg&hash=f5dbc2639c6324a0092c5d1f2922aef3" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.qataridiar.com/english/ourprojects/projects%20images/mushaireb/gallery/mushairebbig-3.jpg)

The world's next holiday resort will be Khartoum, Sudan, according to the developers Qataridiar (http://www.qataridiar.com/English/OurProjects/Pages/Mushaireb.aspx) (a property arm of the sovereign wealth fund). Relative to other projects this is a fairly modest one, but all grandiose schemes have to start somewhere.


Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 13:40:30
Quote from: Frenzie
Quote from: jax
There is a post-millennial style that I dub North European because I've seen it most often there, the South Europeans have mostly been busy with austerity. The buildings are large, boxy, have large balconies, and angular with irregular details and exposed material.

I suppose the Museum At The Stream (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Museum_Aan_de_Stroom) probably fits into that category as well? It evokes a bunch of stacked containers in the harbor.

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.archicentral.com%2Fwp-content%2Fimages%2FBelgian-Museum-Aan-de-Stroom-Completed-in-Antwerp-1.jpg&hash=d4d753dfbdc848c8121f852d55b3ad30" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.archicentral.com/wp-content/images/Belgian-Museum-Aan-de-Stroom-Completed-in-Antwerp-1.jpg)
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 13:42:44
Quote from: jax
It may fit, but I think it is a better fit into signal buildings, buildings designed to make people pay attention to a city or company. Most of the single buildings I have linked to above are of that category. It also fits perfectly into the fairly small but growing  "evokes a bunch of stacked containers" category. Two other cases are in Oslo, Norway (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1219141) (under construction) and Vancouver, Canada (redesigned).


[IMGLEFT=http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/6195/statoil4x1000.jpg][IMGRIGHT=http://pricetags.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/marine-gateway-2.jpg?w=600]

[IMGLEFT=http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/5093/statoil6.jpg][clear]





Of course, then you got buildings that really are a bunch of stacked containers.

[IMGLEFT=http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-4H2ZOKy4MO8/TfBdx8hHkII/AAAAAAAAAZ8/TIP84MJKgwY/s400/container+architecture.jpg][IMGRIGHT=http://duckflash.vectroave.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/City-Center-Lofts-by-Adam-Kalkin-Shipping-Container-Architecture.jpg]


[IMGLEFT=http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ewmvjQfGUQg/TfBhTrfxebI/AAAAAAAAAaM/q2fQpfsOOvU/s400/openschool-apap-lotek-11.jpg][IMGRIGHT=http://ad009cdnb.archdaily.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/1313576175-lorigami.jpg]
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 13:43:52
Quote from: Frenzie
Quote from: jax
It may fit, but I think it is a better fit into signal buildings, buildings designed to make people pay attention to a city or company.

Fair enough. Btw, the basic design itself is from 1999.
Quote from: jax
Of course, then you got buildings that really are a bunch of stacked containers.

Hah. That doesn't seem like they'd be insulated properly. :P
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 13:44:42
Quote from: jax
Some beautiful pictures (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2306842/Stunning-images-Hong-Kong-living-cubicles-look-just-like-Borg-cubes.html) of one of my favourite city in the world.
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.dailymail.co.uk%2Fi%2Fpix%2F2013%2F04%2F10%2Farticle-2306842-19377F6D000005DC-501_964x715.jpg&hash=bdb948047d1b4ae48d02d8616faaff62" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/10/article-2306842-19377F6D000005DC-501_964x715.jpg)
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.dailymail.co.uk%2Fi%2Fpix%2F2013%2F04%2F10%2Farticle-2306842-19377F45000005DC-589_964x1195.jpg&hash=c84daee3c4f441a6d5c8d6936b556912" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/10/article-2306842-19377F45000005DC-589_964x1195.jpg)
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.dailymail.co.uk%2Fi%2Fpix%2F2013%2F04%2F10%2Farticle-2306842-19377E22000005DC-756_964x712.jpg&hash=6be9999c64d45747f6592a8942f6eea7" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/10/article-2306842-19377E22000005DC-756_964x712.jpg)
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 13:46:46
Quote from: jax
Plans for Kigali (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=822018), capital of Rwanda.

[IMGLEFT=http://www.topboxdesign.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Kigali-masterplan-Urban-Planning-design-Exterior-2.jpg][IMGRIGHT=http://www.topboxdesign.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Kigali-masterplan-Urban-Planning-design-Exterior-1.jpg]






















[IMG=http://s3images.coroflot.com/user_files/individual_files/original_81504_TJ_ksP8N7QBDscQFeqNnAAt5A.jpg]



Proposal for Makoko (http://www.architizer.com/en_us/blog/dyn/79000/lagos-floating-school-nle/#.UXYU77VTBqJ), Lagos, Nigeria

[IMG=http://www.architizer.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/nle-makoko-floating-school-1-600x328.jpg]
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 13:47:23
Quote from: aefields
Quote from: jax
Some beautiful pictures (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2306842/Stunning-images-Hong-Kong-living-cubicles-look-just-like-Borg-cubes.html) of one of my favourite city in the world.

Neat pictures.  But the subject makes me shudder.  Living in boxes piled up...  :insane:
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 13:48:52
Quote from: rjhowie
Those closeups of the flats horror remind me of the first time I see "1984" on the BBC years ago.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 13:49:52
Quote from: mjmsprt40
Quote from: jax
Plans for Kigali (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=822018), capital of Rwanda.

[IMGLEFT=http://www.topboxdesign.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Kigali-masterplan-Urban-Planning-design-Exterior-2.jpg][IMGRIGHT=http://www.topboxdesign.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Kigali-masterplan-Urban-Planning-design-Exterior-1.jpg]






















[IMG=http://s3images.coroflot.com/user_files/individual_files/original_81504_TJ_ksP8N7QBDscQFeqNnAAt5A.jpg]



Proposal for Makoko (http://www.architizer.com/en_us/blog/dyn/79000/lagos-floating-school-nle/#.UXYU77VTBqJ), Lagos, Nigeria

[IMG=http://www.architizer.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/nle-makoko-floating-school-1-600x328.jpg]


That photo of Makoko looks somewhat like Des Plaines,Illinois right now. Problem: Des Plaines wasn't designed to look like that.

Edit: I had a look at the link Jax supplied concerning Hong Kong. Please, a thousand times, no. After looking at that, the very worst neighborhoods in Detroit or Chicago don't look so bad.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 13:50:41
Quote from: jax
Quote from: aefields
Quote from: jax
Some beautiful pictures (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2306842/Stunning-images-Hong-Kong-living-cubicles-look-just-like-Borg-cubes.html) of one of my favourite city in the world.

Neat pictures.  But the subject makes me shudder.  Living in boxes piled up...  :insane:


The pictures are actually off-topic as the buildings were made before 2000, but I thought they fitted best in here. These bird cages, as they are called, can be surprisingly comfortable. Well, they are called bird cages in Mandarin, most Hong Kongers speak Cantonese, but I guess the sentiment is the same. I have stayed in similar places in Shanghai, and stayed in hotels in Kowloon not so different from the first picture. You share the hallway and particular the elevators with a good number of neighbours, but otherwise you have privacy. While Hong Kong has suburbs too, in most cases the buildings are a short walk from the city, sometimes they are the city.

The average square meter price in Hong Kong is above 20,000$/m2 (around 2000$ per square foot), so space is at a premium. Small flats are subdivided into submission, like this mansion (http://curbed.com/archives/2011/12/07/watch-a-promo-for-an-actual-164squarefoot-apartment.php). Tokyo have small apartments as well, but the Hong Kong ones are grittier. Coming from Bangkok I paid the same for a five star luxury hotel in Bangkok as I did for a room in Hong Kong that was basically a bed, some luggage/clothing space, and a shower/toilet cubicle.



Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 13:54:19
Quote from: jax
The Norwegian Road Authority has designated some of the roads National Tourist Routes, mostly places with dramatic nature that definitively was around well before the 21st century. But particularly the positive feedback they got from across the world of the design of one viewing platform, Stegastein (2006), made them realise that they could make viewing/resting platforms much nicer than the usual ugly/kitsch/both affair.

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.blueverticalstudio.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F08%2Fdezeen_Aurlandsfjellet_ss_3-640x456.jpg&hash=e996d262cd5e26f29a7998d7e820ada1" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.blueverticalstudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/dezeen_Aurlandsfjellet_ss_3-640x456.jpg)


This article (http://knstrct.com/2011/03/01/travel-norway-the-architectural-way/) shows some of the other ones, in some cases more interesting than the nature the tourists are supposed to watch.












(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fknstrct.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F03%2FTravel-Norway-Architecture-15.jpg&hash=a7261889595afc1b8bd93a8e4408b737" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://knstrct.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Travel-Norway-Architecture-15.jpg)(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fknstrct.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F03%2FTravel-Norway-Architecture-12.jpg&hash=cc8e1c9c11db293b10591168999d726d" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://knstrct.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Travel-Norway-Architecture-12.jpg)
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fknstrct.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F03%2FTravel-Norway-Architecture-19.jpg&hash=4baeff1dae0f7c0b7486f36c9b820687" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://knstrct.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Travel-Norway-Architecture-19.jpg)(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fknstrct.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F03%2FTravel-Norway-Architecture-14.jpg&hash=efc2e87de1c29d9568007b1845a819a9" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://knstrct.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Travel-Norway-Architecture-14.jpg)
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nasjonaleturistveger.no%2Fstream_file.asp%3FiEntityId%3D2140&hash=6edcd49af4806bd78bb572292170bab6" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.nasjonaleturistveger.no/stream_file.asp?iEntityId=2140)(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fknstrct.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F03%2FTravel-Norway-Architecture-11.jpg&hash=7601c0ed5e8b95cbcf311ccdfd4f34ad" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://knstrct.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Travel-Norway-Architecture-11.jpg)
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 13:55:04
Quote from: aefields
Most of these are way cool. :cool:
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 13:55:44
Quote from: jax
And compared to the huge cost of constructing and maintaining roads, they are made for pennies.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 13:56:42
Quote from: jax
Twisted (http://english.people.com.cn/90782/8224007.html).
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fenglish.people.com.cn%2Fmediafile%2F201304%2F26%2FF201304261433293025921274.jpg&hash=7de9aa3925774de999eaebfef38fefea" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://english.people.com.cn/mediafile/201304/26/F201304261433293025921274.jpg)
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 13:57:46
Quote from: Frenzie
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/marxist-and-geographer-david-harvey-on-urban-development-and-power-a-900976.html
Quote
Cities try to secure themselves a prime position on the market [by constructing such projects] -- like a rare wine of an exceptionally good vintage.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 13:59:09
Quote from: Belfrager
A marxist geographer eh?
I've seen many things in life, including a bear that could ride a motorcycle at the Soviet Circus, but this one it's a novelty.
Does he interprets the tectonic movements as a war of classes?
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 14:01:26
Quote from: Krake
Quote from: Belfrager
A marxist geographer eh?
I've seen many things in life, including a bear that could ride a motorcycle at the Soviet Circus, but this one it's a novelty.

Probably a marxist bear since it was the  Soviet Circus :left:
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 14:02:06
Quote from: Frenzie
Quote from: Krake
Probably a marxist bear since it was the  Soviet Circus

And for all we know the bear was a geographer who couldn't get a job in their field.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 14:02:46
Quote from: aefields
I like uniqueness.  When builders and architects are artists painting on the land.  Or using discarded parts in a very cool way.

One example is where a jet plane wing is used as a roof:
References:  http://thequirkyglobe.blogspot.com/2011/08/luxury-home-built-from-jumbo-jet-bits.html
and http://www.bobvila.com/blogs/747-wing-house-david-hertz/
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 14:03:40
Quote from: jax
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FqS4HIZI.jpg&hash=4e1b6685a723b09c9406ebaafd8762ef" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/qS4HIZI.jpg)
Quote from: jax
Tianjin, China Tanggu, "Manhattan" under construction
The buildings are starting to get online. Of course, there is way (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=105010497#post105010497) more (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1304293) to come.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 14:04:20
Quote from: jax








(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fad009cdnb.archdaily.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F07%2F500b284f28ba0d25b90000fb_liyuan-library-li-xiaodong-atelier_dsc_2267.jpg&hash=ba39b2d5e6c826609a0c2657b6e82ed9" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://ad009cdnb.archdaily.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/500b284f28ba0d25b90000fb_liyuan-library-li-xiaodong-atelier_dsc_2267.jpg)Of course not everything in China is to a huge scale. This library (http://www.archdaily.com/256525/liyuan-library-li-xiaodong-atelier/), unlike most of the pictures from China designed by a Chinese architect, to a very human scale, is located in a very hard to get village (http://www.smartbeijing.com/articles/travel/offbeat-road-trip-to-liyuan-library) in the far outskirts of Beijing.
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.smartbeijing.com%2Fblogpix%2Fflyer1369801308.jpg&hash=16bf626c3702225ccc47e9baf827d418" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.smartbeijing.com/blogpix/flyer1369801308.jpg)(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fad009cdnb.archdaily.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F07%2F500b2a4528ba0d33e600002d_liyuan-library-li-xiaodong-atelier_09-528x374.png&hash=ee60ad25faa9a799c079de337077673f" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://ad009cdnb.archdaily.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/500b2a4528ba0d33e600002d_liyuan-library-li-xiaodong-atelier_09-528x374.png)
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 14:05:00
Quote from: Belfrager
Quote from: jax
Of course not everything in China is to a huge scale. This library, unlike most of the pictures from China designed by a Chinese architect, to a very human scale, is located in a very hard to get village in the far outskirts of Beijing.

Oh yes, certainly.
How unfair we are when telling to such Chinese wonderful architects to stick such ugly creations up to their asses. They are so good, that even at "very hard to get village" they create "very human scale" architecture.
Sorry Chinese pal, I promise that I will never again criticize such a genius.

Albert Speer was really very naive compared with modernist Chinese architecture. Nazis, is what that Chinese are.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 14:05:47
Quote from: jax
Nazi or modernist? They are quite the opposite, the Nazis detested modernism, and made their own curious mix of pre-modernist architecture. As it happens I can't think of any modernist buildings in China, but modernist-inspired certainly, like architecture inspired by most other periods in time. The Nazi mix of styles I haven't seen (though the mix of Soviet architecture and traditional Chinese elements popular for a while could be seen as a different form of totalitarian architecture). Anyway the old 20th century architecture is off-topic, this thread is about 21st century architecture.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 14:06:17
Quote from: Belfrager
Quote from: jax
Nazi or modernist? They are quite the opposite, the Nazis detested modernism, and made their own curious mix of pre-modernist architecture.

Yes, that's true. Their architecture, or at least many of its elements, were extremely influential to both communist and fascist architects.

Now, as for the Chinese today, at the 21st century. Those 3 big photos from your post at April, the 13th, what do you considered it to be? Is that modernism? post-modernism? to me it' simply concentration camps, as well as several entire cities, more concentration camps.

Therefore my analogy with Nazis. But the analogy doesn't stop at concentration camps, also those kind of futurist buildings, that we can see many examples,  have in my opinion all the ingredients to basically propagate the "glory", "superiority" and "unbeatable dimension" of the new China. Nazis.

I find the problem of the ratio between the human scale and the scale of the building a most important one. Until a certain ratio (and that's difficult to be measured precisely) the building it's a demonstration of the human genius and creation but beyond that ratio and the building turns to a demonstration of the insignificance of the human being.

In the first case, the building serves Man, in the second, Man serves the building or what it represents. And there we have totalitarianism.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 14:07:38
Quote from: jax
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fphotomichaelwolf.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fa42.jpg&hash=226fa87d6457d4725f27447d47f47e3e" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://photomichaelwolf.com/wp-content/uploads/a42.jpg)Ah, those from Hong Kong? They are neither communist, fascist, modernist (which probably would fit best though), post-modernist, but, for most cases in this series (http://photomichaelwolf.com/#architecture-of-densitiy/1), social housing. That is housing intended to house as many as possible for as low price as possible. Most, if not all, these buildings were built while Hong Kong still was a British colony, so they are actually off-topic, something I've already apologized for (but they are still stunning so they were worth an apology).

Of course, house prices in Hong Kong top the world (http://www.forbes.com/sites/morganbrennan/2013/03/22/the-worlds-most-expensive-cities-for-luxury-real-estate/) so even social housing like the depicted would be beyond the means of us mere mortals.

There is more expensive real estate than Hong Kong. The world's most expensive real estate is in, of all places, France (and Monaco). Yep, the French Riviera, the billionaire patch. According to the advertisement (http://news.sky.com/story/1069663/monaco-penthouse-worlds-most-expensive) a penthouse in Monaco may be most expensive, but a Chelsea, London estate of a Norwegian magnate with way more money than taste may have a higher value, only it's not for sale.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 14:09:21
Quote from: mjmsprt40
That Hong Kong building is an abomination at any price. It's a warehouse for people, and even if they were giving it away I have problems with the idea of actually wanting to live there. But then, I'm not a resident of Hong Kong.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 14:09:46
Quote from: thufale
I'd say they are both equally beautiful. You can't beat some of the beautiful European cathedrals, but then again there are so many shapely buildings that the 21st century brought. I'd say the world wouldn't be as beautiful if we didn't have both!
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 14:10:49
Quote from: jax
You can have both, a 21st century European cathedral (http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=14094062).

Singapore is a disproportionately influential city state. This is the architectural inspiration for China. Though prices in mainland China, not even Shanghai, yet approach Hong Kong or Macao, Singapore today is China tomorrow.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 14:11:46
Quote from: Frenzie
Quote from: jax
[Social housing] is housing intended to house as many as possible for as low price as possible.

I'm pretty sure that's no longer the only criterion, given all the problems that approach caused.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 14:12:37
Quote from: jax
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.fotocommunity.de%2Fbilder%2Fczech-republic%2Fprag%2Fginger-fred-75dc633b-4758-41a7-b1d0-d1cffcc189b4.jpg&hash=d90689b7db6911d6e74804c454ebadac" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://images.fotocommunity.de/bilder/czech-republic/prag/ginger-fred-75dc633b-4758-41a7-b1d0-d1cffcc189b4.jpg)

Quote from: ensbb3
Seems your book is gonna take some if not most of my arguments, if the summary is any indication. If there's a bit about compartmentalising sections so to make renovation part of the design I'll be without points. As a builder I understand the need to standardize construction and the durability of materials. Cost is a big factor for buildings only decades old. I can estimate a job easily if I know the method used to build it. I don't have to tear into a wall to tell you what's there or what it will take to redesign/replace/restore. But nonstandard construction mean you won't know what is really there until you get into it and any parts will have to be manufactured specifically for the job. Cost skyrockets quickly and price per unit of a special order, say, curved window is higher and decades later materials may not even be the same (so more cost depending on the variances).

And when restoring old you quickly find the worth is measured by what the building mean to the community (individuals) vs moneys of renovation/restoration (whoever fronts the bill). Often more money is spent to restore than a new structure would cost regardless, but without the presence and meaning behind it, fancy architecture can become useless junk when it's worth less money to put something else there that's much better.
This is a very good point.



It's been a while since I read the book. Like most of my books I have no idea in which part of the world they are right now. I used to have it at the Opera office, to bolster the point that software architecture is like building architecture. Likewise I haven't seen the series for a while, but now that it is up on YouTube by Steward Brand, the author, it should be accessible everywhere except in China without VPN. All this as a long disclaimer that it is by memory, but I believe re-purposing is a major part later on (around episode 5) and mentioned regularly throughout. Eventually a building is going to be used for a very different purpose than the one the architect imagined, and were paid for.

The series early on (in the above first episode) mentions your point about non-standard components. It uses the late 20th century Dancing House (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dancing_House) (above) here in Prague as an example of a building that is hard to clean, and hard to maintain as every component is custom-made. I like it because it fits in beautifully with the existing architecture in Prague (right), but it makes it no less expensive to maintain.

What above all has changed 21st century architecture from all the preceding centuries is the computer, just like concrete, steel frames, plate glass, and the car formed 20th century architecture. Dancing house is a fairly early example of that, as is the Bilbao Guggenheim Museum, but elements that were custom-made in numbers of one the first time would be no cheaper to replace. Technology will keep up though. While not competing with mass production prices, future foundries should be able to reproduce elements as they break. All these components existed in computers originally, and can be reproduced from computers later, only undocumented on-site fittings would cause future problems.

However I am not sure all these intricate 3D compositions in this thread have the necessary redundancies to allow easy (cheap) and flexible repurposing.
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hdrshooter.net%2FPortfolio%2FPhotos%2Fi-nrNXWHX%2F0%2FX2%2FPrague-IMG_2664_5_6_7_8_tonemapped-X2.jpg&hash=d0e35f3b4d9cb920a60a3d19c9d24af2" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.hdrshooter.net/Portfolio/Photos/i-nrNXWHX/0/X2/Prague-IMG_2664_5_6_7_8_tonemapped-X2.jpg)

Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 14:14:00
Quote from: jax
Quote from: mjmsprt40
Quote from: jax
Proposal for Makoko (http://www.architizer.com/en_us/blog/dyn/79000/lagos-floating-school-nle/#.UXYU77VTBqJ), Lagos, Nigeria

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bookmarc.com.au%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F03%2Fnle-makoko-floating-school-1-bookmarc_designboom_architizer.jpg&hash=5ac1ae0c2d2e1e6d60ba4667de1dcb19" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.bookmarc.com.au/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/nle-makoko-floating-school-1-bookmarc_designboom_architizer.jpg)


That photo of Makoko looks somewhat like Des Plaines,Illinois right now. Problem: Des Plaines wasn't designed to look like that.
Yes, they do look like houses innundated to the roof, don't they? It would be fun to redesign these so as to show a little bit of a "floor" below the roof.

Of course this is an advantage of house boat architecture, they are pretty much flood-proof. There are Dutch ideas for floating cities (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2012/07/pictures/120730-future-floating-cities-science-green-environment/) along this line.

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.nationalgeographic.com%2Fwpf%2Fmedia-live%2Fphotos%2F000%2F574%2Foverrides%2Fcity-solutions-seasteading-buildings-float-ocean-seascraper_57416_600x450.jpg&hash=7abebedacfe89f1f6746b0c9fe2dbe93" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://images.nationalgeographic.com/wpf/media-live/photos/000/574/overrides/city-solutions-seasteading-buildings-float-ocean-seascraper_57416_600x450.jpg)
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 14:15:16
Quote from: jax
Quote from: Frenzie
I'm pretty sure that's no longer the only criterion, given all the problems that approach caused.
Would be that that is true, but I don't see that reflection in China or in the developing or emerging world elsewhere. Just like in Europe after the devastation of WWII there is a huge demand for urban housing, but the new migrants don't have the means to pay for it. Half the construction in the world today is in China, much of it is social housing. The developers are subverting the government rules for subsidies a bit, basically making them a little nicer and more easy to sell to investors.

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fbbs.home.news.cn%2Fupfiles%2F06BC3517.002C&hash=8b16237692dd916aebcd13ffe807ed59" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://bbs.home.news.cn/upfiles/06BC3517.002C)

And China is the good case. The rest of the world is catching up and urbanising fast as well. The fresh new urbanites will need a place to stay, and the street is not always the best option.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 14:16:00
Quote from: jax
Kabul
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm9.staticflickr.com%2F8116%2F8654586376_e839c786d7_o.jpg&hash=979ccadab4c5eeec050e39981fa06c79" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8116/8654586376_e839c786d7_o.jpg)(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm1.staticflickr.com%2F101%2F306387716_1b2985e255_b.jpg&hash=d29db7e34a49d140d4c80f67aebeb3b6" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://farm1.staticflickr.com/101/306387716_1b2985e255_b.jpg)
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 14:16:38
Quote from: Frenzie
Quote from: jax
However I am not sure all these intricate 3D compositions in this thread have the necessary redundancies to allow easy (cheap) and flexible repurposing.

Did you read about construction firms in China literally pirating designs (http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/pirated-copy-of-design-by-star-architect-hadid-being-built-in-china-a-874390.html)?
Quote from: jax
And China is the good case. The rest of the world is catching up and urbanising fast as well. The fresh new urbanites will need a place to stay, and the street is not always the best option.

Fair enough.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 14:17:12
Quote from: jax
Quote from: Frenzie
Did you read about construction firms in China literally pirating designs (http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/pirated-copy-of-design-by-star-architect-hadid-being-built-in-china-a-874390.html)?
I consider that one more to be "inspired by" than "literal copy", architects are and were inspired by each other all the time. The Chongqing architect definitely was inspired by the stripes and rounded shape, all that Hadidery, but beyond that it didn't try to make their building a copy beyond that, which they well could. It may suit both houses' marketing to consider this an architectural piracy. "Never meant to copy, only want to surpass." in the word of the developer.










(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.dezeen.com%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F01%2FZaha-Hadid-Wangjing-Soho.jpg&hash=9bfcec40dee5eaef42cda52eb904dcb0" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://static.dezeen.com/uploads/2013/01/Zaha-Hadid-Wangjing-Soho.jpg)(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.dezeen.com%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F01%2FMeiquan-22nd-Century-Chongqing.jpg&hash=fb6f55e416536c1417d6d6be11b5a60e" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://static.dezeen.com/uploads/2013/01/Meiquan-22nd-Century-Chongqing.jpg)
"Original" Wangjing, Beijing"Copy" Chongqing



There are literal copies as well, where you can't see the difference from one to the other. It's mostly architects copying themselves, but also sometimes they copy others.

Quote from: Frenzie
Fair enough.
Yes, it's not stupid to build cheap housing, but it will mean familiar problems down the line 20 years from now or so.

It's not a certainty though. The suburbs built in the outskirt of Prague many decades ago are just as miserable as they are in other European cities, but somehow with less problems. People want to live there (not me though), even fairly well-off people who could easily afford to live elsewhere in Prague.  It may not be just architecture and city planning that determines the future of a city neighbourhood.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 14:18:04
Quote from: Belfrager
Quote from: jax
And China is the good case. The rest of the world is catching up and urbanising fast as well. The fresh new urbanites will need a place to stay, and the street is not always the best option.

What rest of the world?
If there's something that the European world has already learned, it's about the importance of urbanism quality. Quality.
What happens when ghettos are created, the lack of adequate public space, green areas, soil permeability, energetic sustainability and so on, so on and so on...

What Chinese are doing can't be even called "urbanism" by today standards.
I really don't understand your fascination, jax.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 14:18:47
Quote from: jax
I got a feeling then you really are not going to like it when we get to Africa. The Chinese is actually very European (in this case more so than American). Like I said China is primarily looking to Singapore for urban planning, though also to other places in Asia, Europe, America.  Technically China isn't that dense, and less dense than their models, but that is because the country has huge deserts, mountain ranges, permafrost, jungles, and other barely inhabitable areas. The migration from the countryside today happens faster than it did in the West when it was developing, and not only China, the world.

They could have opted for sprawl, but instead they opted for dense, with a number of well-connected  clusters. If you wish, pieces of Japan with stretches of nothingness (farmland) in between. The Chinese population is stable, it's growing a little because people don't die as quickly as they once did. Between the government's desire for cheap housing and the developers' penchant for luxury housing, and everyone looking for the quick yuan, there are definitely missteps, but on the whole it is happening better than when Europe was urbanising a century and half ago.

Most commentators inside and outside China say the Chinese don't need the expensive stuff, they need the cheap stuff. Which is true, but the cheap stuff isn't always so nice, especially a couple decades from now. (If anyone had listened to me, I would say cheap, but not cheapest.)

The same is happening in the rest of Asia, but with less money. Some of these countries as slowing down demographically like China, some are speeding up. None are speeding up as fast as Africa, which also is growing fast in population. African cities are built up even faster than Chinese, with less money, less infrastructure, less planning, and they keep coming.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 14:19:42
Quote from: aefields
Quote from: jax








(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fad009cdnb.archdaily.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F07%2F500b284f28ba0d25b90000fb_liyuan-library-li-xiaodong-atelier_dsc_2267.jpg&hash=ba39b2d5e6c826609a0c2657b6e82ed9" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://ad009cdnb.archdaily.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/500b284f28ba0d25b90000fb_liyuan-library-li-xiaodong-atelier_dsc_2267.jpg)Of course not everything in China is to a huge scale. This library (http://www.archdaily.com/256525/liyuan-library-li-xiaodong-atelier/), unlike most of the pictures from China designed by a Chinese architect, to a very human scale, is located in a very hard to get village (http://www.smartbeijing.com/articles/travel/offbeat-road-trip-to-liyuan-library) in the far outskirts of Beijing.
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.smartbeijing.com%2Fblogpix%2Fflyer1369801308.jpg&hash=16bf626c3702225ccc47e9baf827d418" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.smartbeijing.com/blogpix/flyer1369801308.jpg)(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fad009cdnb.archdaily.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F07%2F500b2a4528ba0d33e600002d_liyuan-library-li-xiaodong-atelier_09-528x374.png&hash=ee60ad25faa9a799c079de337077673f" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://ad009cdnb.archdaily.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/500b2a4528ba0d33e600002d_liyuan-library-li-xiaodong-atelier_09-528x374.png)


I like. :heart:
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 14:20:35
Quote from: jax
[IMGLEFT=http://drop.ndtv.com/albums/uploadedpics/small/rooftopbeijing1_635120869980291432.jpg]This 21st century construction in Haidian, Beijing is due for demolition (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/13/beijing-rooftop-villa-faces-demolition).

Quote
A man who made his fortune in traditional medicine spent six years building his own private mountain peak and luxury villa atop a high-rise apartment block in China's capital. Now, authorities are giving him 15 days to tear it down. The craggy complex of rooms, rocks, trees and bushes looming over the 26-storey building looks like something built into a seaside cliff, and has become the latest symbol of disregard for the law among the rich as well as the rampant practice of building illegal additions. Angry neighbours say they have complained for years that the unauthorised, 800 sq ft mansion was damaging the building's structural integrity and its pipe system, but that local authorities failed to crack down. They had also complained about loud, late-night parties.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 14:21:31
Quote from: jax
A Polish entry (http://ifitshipitshere.blogspot.no/2010/05/safe-house-in-poland-is-modern-fortress.html). Safe House (http://www.dezeen.com/2011/06/08/safe-house-by-robert-konieczny/), outside Warsaw.

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F_zqFoq3qej2c%2FS_lrV_2u8hI%2FAAAAAAABW1g%2FMIc_JGeAz_k%2Fs640%2Fsafehouse6.jpg&hash=d1cebd23d57246bd3cc3c3a526d103b7" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_zqFoq3qej2c/S_lrV_2u8hI/AAAAAAABW1g/MIc_JGeAz_k/s640/safehouse6.jpg)
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 14:22:13
Quote from: mjmsprt40
I saw something similar on a horror movie. "House on Haunted Hill" if I remember right. The house sealed up, trapping everybody inside, and they were killed off one by one until the last person managed to escape-- actually, the house let him out-- but he was still on a ledge so I doubt that the escape was a good one.

The idea of being in a sealed cube like that just doesn't appeal to me. I don't know about anybody else. If you have to have your house built like that, your neighborhood is just too nasty and it's time to call the movers.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 14:23:20
Quote from: jax
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.viralnova.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F10%2F07-They-have-a-cat.jpg&hash=16470ccabc180f1582cf360b69f280c9" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://cdn.viralnova.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/07-They-have-a-cat.jpg)
Quote from: mjmsprt40
The house sealed up, trapping everybody inside, and they were killed off one by one until the last person managed to escape
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 14:24:14
Quote from: Belfrager
Quote from: mjmsprt40
I saw something similar on a horror movie.

If the Romans had build villas as that house, the barbarians would have never entered and America would not dominate the world.
Well, more or less. :)

Besides, the house is not exactly what it seems to be. See the other images and description at the link Jax provided.
The concept of houses as something that closes up to itself protecting the occupiers it's the very base concept of a house. There's no surprise that architects enjoys to take that concept further and explore its limits.
Exploring spacial limits and concepts it's the nature of architecture.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 14:24:57
Quote from: mjmsprt40
Quote from: Belfrager
Quote from: mjmsprt40
I saw something similar on a horror movie.

If the Romans had build villas as that house, the barbarians would have never entered and America would not dominate the world.
Well, more or less. :)

Besides, the house is not exactly what it seems to be. See the other images and description at the link Jax provided.
The concept of houses as something that closes up to itself protecting the occupiers it's the very base concept of a house. There's no surprise that architects enjoys to take that concept further and explore its limits.
Exploring spacial limits and concepts it's the nature of architecture.


I saw those images. All of them. The whole thing made me think of that horror movie. It was a Vincent Price movie no great surprise there. Once the guests were all inside, the house sealed up. Doors and windows were sealed with steel shutters, so no one could get in or out. Then people started dying. The house itself-- or rather, the ghosts of former inhabitants who had a bone to pick with the guests-- was killing everybody-- including the host and hostess.

This house that Jax has shown gives me the creeps big time. I can envision a situation where being sealed up in that house could be as deadly as any outside invader.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 14:26:08
Quote from: mjmsprt40
Quote from: jax
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.viralnova.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F10%2F07-They-have-a-cat.jpg&hash=16470ccabc180f1582cf360b69f280c9" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://cdn.viralnova.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/07-They-have-a-cat.jpg)
Quote from: mjmsprt40
The house sealed up, trapping everybody inside, and they were killed off one by one until the last person managed to escape


"Wait a second---- we don't have a cat! Uh-oh!!!"
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 14:26:51
Quote from: OakdaleFTL
Just an oddity: I'd assumed that "the unauthorised, 800 sq ft mansion" jax posted about (here (http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=14649162)) contained a typo... 8oo square feet? That's a mansion? :)
Two guys can "share" a suit. But it will be uncomfortable, if they both wear it at the same time... (I'm obviously missing something here.) Perhaps the word wanted was penthouse...
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 14:27:38
Quote from: ensbb3
It's pretty big, so probably missing a zero.

That's not even the interesting part of the article tho. Only a 70 year lease on any property? Or less!!? Wow. Eliminates attachments I guess.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 14:28:39
Quote from: OakdaleFTL
Quote from: ensbb3
Only a 70 year lease on any property? Or less!!? Wow. Eliminates attachments I guess.
Eliminates multi-generational attachments... No such thing as the old homestead; no ancestral homes. No continuity, I presume, is the goal...
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 14:29:10
Quote from: jax
Quote from: OakdaleFTL
Just an oddity: I'd assumed that "the unauthorised, 800 sq ft mansion" jax posted about (here (http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=14649162)) contained a typo... 8oo square feet? That's a mansion? :)


The journalist should have written 800 square meters, a square meter is around 11 square feet.

Yes, 70 years lease on residential land and 50 on commercial is now standard in urban areas. It's actually more complicated than that, there are several types of ownership, but this is the main urban. Singapore, China's star and guiding light, has similar contracts and the same problem, namely nobody knows what will happen when the time's up. Both states are relatively young, and more to the point any building older than a decade or two is likely to be demolished anyway to build something bigger and taller (and more profitable), and when that happens the timer is reset. If, for some reason, a house were to stand to its allotted time, the owners would be unlikely to lose their apartments, but if they were to pay a fee for another round or what else would happen is unclear.

A bigger concern is that the typical apartment contract isn't conducive to maintenance. With the apartment you would pay a service fee to a service company to manicure the garden, dispose of the garbage and maintain the house. The owners would be inclined to pay as little as possible, or not at all, while the service companies to maximise their profits. This all conspires into investing too little into maintenance, and after few years the typical apartment building looks pretty run-down on the outside, but nice and shiny on the inside (assuming that the owner were inclined to maintain at least his own apartment). 30 year old buildings look pretty ghastly, I have no idea what a 70 year old building would look like. I don't think I have ever seen one (buildings either come in really young or really old, there is no middle).

To date the typical buyer hasn't been overly concerned about the state of an apartment, as the typical modus operandi when buying an apartment has been to get rid of all that is inside the walls and do a full new reconstruction and refurbishing. This will change, the rush to the cities will slow down, the need to build more and denser will dissipate, and a more conservative stance will follow.

But when China slows down in a decade or two (with the usual burst bubbles on the way), other parts of Asia would be speeding up, and even more so Africa (again with one or more crises on the way).
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 14:30:09
Quote from: jax
Incidentally in Hong Kong or Singapore 800 square feet would be pretty much a manson. Of course this is just an excuse to repost this:
Quote from: jax
The average square meter price in Hong Kong is above 20,000$/m2 (around 2000$ per square foot), so space is at a premium. Small flats are subdivided into submission, like this mansion (http://curbed.com/archives/2011/12/07/watch-a-promo-for-an-actual-164squarefoot-apartment.php). Tokyo have small apartments as well, but the Hong Kong ones are grittier. Coming from Bangkok I paid the same for a five star luxury hotel in Bangkok as I did for a room in Hong Kong that was basically a bed, some luggage/clothing space, and a shower/toilet cubicle.


Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 14:30:52
Quote from: spartaa
Quote from: Belfrager

If the Romans had build villas as that house, the barbarians would have never entered and America would not dominate the world.
Well, more or less. :)


why Europeans is Hard to understand n/or accepts ,  if Europes Created the 'Murica ??

that's Something like " Frankenstein"

The 'Murica and Democracy  is undeniable so Ugly ,

but that's the Greatest things what Human race  Have Created all of time .

that's the Prove if "The Dead can be Resurrected" .

that's Frankenstein

While You,  Europeans is " Victor Frankenstein "  who have Created that thing , and the Intolerant People

and You Hate it , just B'cos it Looks So Ugly
You are ..
Quote

the blind father, that cant   accepts him into his home and treats him with kindess. The blind man cannot see the creature's "accursed ugliness" and considers him a friend. 


(https://files.myopera.com/spartaa/files/franskenstein.jpg)


Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 14:31:42
Quote from: Belfrager
Quote from: mjmsprt40
I saw those images. All of them. The whole thing made me think of that horror movie. It was a Vincent Price movie no great surprise there. Once the guests were all inside, the house sealed up. Doors and windows were sealed with steel shutters, so no one could get in or out. Then people started dying. The house itself-- or rather, the ghosts of former inhabitants who had a bone to pick with the guests-- was killing everybody-- including the host and hostess.

This house that Jax has shown gives me the creeps big time. I can envision a situation where being sealed up in that house could be as deadly as any outside invader.

Mjm, the house mimics the cycles of nature, as a flower that opens by morning and closes by night. For that, it uses technology. So, a parable about the return to nature. Poetic...

An architect is/should be an artist, his work triggering emotions and raising consciousness.
By your words, this one seems to be a really good one.

The house acts as a carnivorous plant, people being the insects.
People being insects?? where did the architect got such strange idea? :)

Or is it possible that you just don't like concrete and glass as building materials for idyllic American houses? :)
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 14:33:23
Quote from: OakdaleFTL
...some people (even many who have no ideology to guide their every indulgence and "requests") just know who they are. An architect who can't build to suit clients is incompetent. An architect who only builds to accommodate an ideology is, even if that ideology is popular, an idiot!

People live in houses, and transit, inhabit, or work in other "structures"... If the designers of such are unaware of or actually hostile to people, it's no wonder people reject them! 
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 14:33:59
Quote from: mjmsprt40
Quote from: Belfrager
Quote from: mjmsprt40
I saw those images. All of them. The whole thing made me think of that horror movie. It was a Vincent Price movie no great surprise there. Once the guests were all inside, the house sealed up. Doors and windows were sealed with steel shutters, so no one could get in or out. Then people started dying. The house itself-- or rather, the ghosts of former inhabitants who had a bone to pick with the guests-- was killing everybody-- including the host and hostess.

This house that Jax has shown gives me the creeps big time. I can envision a situation where being sealed up in that house could be as deadly as any outside invader.

Mjm, the house mimics the cycles of nature, as a flower that opens by morning and closes by night. For that, it uses technology. So, a parable about the return to nature. Poetic...

An architect is/should be an artist, his work triggering emotions and raising consciousness.
By your words, this one seems to be a really good one.

The house acts as a carnivorous plant, people being the insects.
People being insects?? where did the architect got such strange idea? :)

Or is it possible that you just don't like concrete and glass as building materials for idyllic American houses? :)


Concrete and glass are not the problems. It's the way they are used that gives this particular house such a ghastly appearance. This house looks positively evil especially when it's sealed up. Those concrete "shutters" look to be a least a foot thick, maybe a bit more. What in God's Name is the owner so afraid of that he has to live in something like that??? Sealed up, I see a big, black cube unbroken by anything that suggests anything good is here. Inside the house, I can't imagine feeling good even with all the best furniture and wall coverings known to man once the place is sealed like that.

Even in the photos where the house is "open" there is such an element of fear about the place that the best recommendation I could make is to call the movers at once-- we're getting out of here.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 14:34:40
Quote from: Belfrager
Quote from: OakdaleFTL
An architect who can't build to suit clients is incompetent.

Soooo utilitarian... :)
And what would be a client that doesn't suits his architect?
Quote from: OakdaleFTL
An architect who only builds to accommodate an ideology is, even if that ideology is popular, an idiot!

Do you listen that, Frank Lloyd Wright? :)
Quote from: mjmsprt40
Even in the photos where the house is "open" there is such an element of fear about the place that the best recommendation I could make is to call the movers at once-- we're getting out of here.

Like what D&D always made me feel back when I was alive? :)
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 14:35:27
Quote from: jax
More interior design in Hong Kong, Extreme transformer home in Hong Kong: Gary Chang's 24 rooms (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WB2-2j9e4co)
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 14:36:11
Quote from: jimbro37
Amazing!
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 14:37:59
Dump concluded.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-02-22, 15:05:23
The series early on (in the above first episode) mentions your point about non-standard components. It uses the late 20th century Dancing House (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dancing_House) (above) here in Prague as an example of a building that is hard to clean, and hard to maintain as every component is custom-made. I like it because it fits in beautifully with the existing architecture in Prague (right), but it makes it no less expensive to maintain.

Here's a picture I took of it while visiting Prague in 2011.

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fpolymathicmonkey.smugmug.com%2Fphotos%2Fi-86B5DML%2F0%2FXL%2Fi-86B5DML-XL.jpg&hash=966a10c70fd1fbae546f77e911499ffe" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://polymathicmonkey.smugmug.com/photos/i-86B5DML/0/XL/i-86B5DML-XL.jpg)
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Belfrager on 2014-02-22, 18:45:40
Dump concluded.

Any special reason for doing such work of Hercules?
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 19:00:41

  • Egotism. Some of the My Opera threads are effectively link lists

  • Relevance. This thread is one of the My Opera clones, and a resonably recent one. Plenty left there to comment on.

  • Experiment. The above posts are (manually) copied/quoted from My Opera, makes it possible to compare presentation and syntax. This thread used more of the My Opera capabilities than most.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Belfrager on 2014-02-22, 19:08:47


  • Egotism. Some of the My Opera threads are effectively link lists

  • Relevance. This thread is one of the My Opera clones, and a resonably recent one. Plenty left there to comment on.

  • Experiment. The above posts are (manually) copied/quoted from My Opera, makes it possible to compare presentation and syntax. This thread used more of the My Opera capabilities than most.


You are forgiven.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-02-22, 19:40:36

     
  • Experiment. The above posts are (manually) copied/quoted from My Opera, makes it possible to compare presentation and syntax. This thread used more of the My Opera capabilities than most.

Conversion should be fairly straightforward. As it turns out here are some styles for images on My Opera:

Code: [Select]
.imgleft img{clear:left;float:left;margin:0 10px 0 0;max-width:48%}
.imgright img{clear:right;float:right;max-width:48%;margin:0 0 0 10px}
.imgcenter{clear:both;display:block;margin:0 auto}


IMGCENTER seems to be some kind of hidden feature.

Anyway, .imgleft and .imgright might be worth duplicating. Perhaps even with the My Opera syntax. [Edit: drat, it only supports closed bbcodes without arguments.]

PS Note how by right-clicking you can view the Exif metadata on my picture in Opera/Presto, but Chromium requires an annoying extension for everything.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 20:24:19
So far I have (again manually) fixed some of the syntax differences. Nothing too surprising. This forum doesn't have floating images (IMGLEFT and IMGRIGHT), but it does have tables, which is layout-wise more powerful and predictable. For this thread (my posts at least) tables are significantly better for the list of pictures.

However, they are not quite the same. Elsewhere I used a lot of floating pictures (IMGLEFT, IMGRIGTH) as illustrations, as both the scaledown (IMG is about 100% width) and the text wrap-around were desired effects. In this thread I used them as a hack in the absence of tables, so I rewrote those posts with table.

Where I actually wanted the float, I could hack the float with a table (a row for the image and another for the text), but apart from losing the automatic wraparound, the algorithm for calculating the row width would make the picture row tiny (and thus the picture thumbnail size), and the text row almost full width.

This could work in other threads, but less so in one like here where the pictures are as important as the text. When I can use two rows of pictures (what I originally simulated by IMGRIGHT+IMGLEFT), they will both be half-width, so that works out fine.

IMG, IMGLEFT, IMGRIGHT, VIDEO have a slightly different syntax.

The collections of pictograms/smileys don't fully match.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-02-22, 20:30:37
The collections of pictograms/smileys don't fully match.

A semi-coherent set of equivalents is a desired feature in my book.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 20:33:17
Conversion should be fairly straightforward. As it turns out here are some styles for images on My Opera:


What you said above. There might be a few other bbcode differences, one of the posts has 'whisper' for instance, but basically it is pretty close.

If someone were at some point in the future to publish My Opera threads, he or she could do so pretty much unchanged. Though for closure it would be worthwhile to modify links to my.opera.com/etc to a link that would actually work.  Such a publishing shouldn't use the quote mechanism, like I did, and should likely put in the missing data fields, like posting date.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-22, 20:35:43
A semi-coherent set of equivalents is a desired feature in my book.

I consider the WAP protocols to be a disaster cum horror, but there was one protocol/approach that I liked, their way of encoding pictograms. That's for another thread, and some other time.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-02-23, 15:52:38
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.dezeen.com%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F11%2FSinuous-structure-by-NEXT-architects-wins-Chinese-bridge-competition_dezeen_ss_1.jpg&hash=793f9ab685afa9be7ec8f2970ee76d09" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://static.dezeen.com/uploads/2013/11/Sinuous-structure-by-NEXT-architects-wins-Chinese-bridge-competition_dezeen_ss_1.jpg)

Dragon King Harbor River pedestrian bridge (http://www.dezeen.com/2013/11/04/next-architects-chinese-bridge-competition/)
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-02-23, 16:24:21
I like it. I'm reminded of a Dutch or German bridge, but can't seem to place it.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-04-01, 17:45:00
There is a post-millennial style that I dub North European because I've seen it most often there, the South Europeans have mostly been busy with austerity. The buildings are large, boxy, have large balconies, and angular with irregular details and exposed material. They are typically in reclaimed industrial or seafaring areas.  In part newer environmental and accessibility building codes have an impact on the design. Interestingly many of these projects look better up close than from a distance. Pictures from Oslo,  Malmö, Hamburg, Prague.














(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fisdronningen.vgb.no%2Ffiles%2F2010%2F07%2Fnydalen.jpg&hash=85982681ec3cc7746d3df7e7e66d6b69" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://isdronningen.vgb.no/files/2010/07/nydalen.jpg)(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fnwt.se%2Fmultimedia%2Fdynamic%2F00769%2F1352432_jpg_769566img699.jpg&hash=f2bd7ca67b0807f98b418195c0f87559" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://nwt.se/multimedia/dynamic/00769/1352432_jpg_769566img699.jpg)
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm9.staticflickr.com%2F8051%2F8086693082_98b54fcdbb_b.jpg&hash=3411f5553109b57f1c863b3dd66871f0" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8051/8086693082_98b54fcdbb_b.jpg)(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm9.staticflickr.com%2F8334%2F8095118527_c9ebae47e2_b.jpg&hash=57e8d2ea62dc87aa680909aeee6d9314" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8334/8095118527_c9ebae47e2_b.jpg)
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fmw2.google.com%2Fmw-panoramio%2Fphotos%2Fmedium%2F26620934.jpg&hash=5c0af8b8e209db533bd14ca9e9fc7c46" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/26620934.jpg)(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi119.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo122%2FrealJot%2Fhh%2Fhafencity_1_zpsf9b45a1e.jpg%3Aoriginal&hash=7620156db601c1bd65f5d3019c69d65f" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o122/realJot/hh/hafencity_1_zpsf9b45a1e.jpg:original)
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ceeqa.com%2Fdata%2Fpictures%2Fshortlist13%2Foffice-hld%2F03a.jpg&hash=725d51f0b316f9b4699bc04c3ea57203" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.ceeqa.com/data/pictures/shortlist13/office-hld/03a.jpg)

Spent a day at the Hammarby Sea City district/project in Stockholm. Starting in 2003 it is a bit older than the above projects.

Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-04-09, 07:48:50
The Saudi-Arabian underground

Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Belfrager on 2014-04-09, 09:13:41
Estonian architecture. :)
Do you live in one of these, Ersi?

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fassets.inhabitat.com%2Fwp-content%2Fblogs.dir%2F1%2Ffiles%2F2014%2F04%2FNOA-Polyhedral-House-Jaanus-Orgusaar-21.jpg&hash=becf4bf3cf7912a24dba886a1b92f7f9" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://assets.inhabitat.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2014/04/NOA-Polyhedral-House-Jaanus-Orgusaar-21.jpg)

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fassets.inhabitat.com%2Fwp-content%2Fblogs.dir%2F1%2Ffiles%2F2014%2F04%2FNOA-Polyhedral-House-Jaanus-Orgusaar-10.jpg&hash=559ec811a1dfa67e658108f6e5ace324" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://assets.inhabitat.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2014/04/NOA-Polyhedral-House-Jaanus-Orgusaar-10.jpg)
Quote
NOA is an easily mountable sustainable living space, adaptable to a variety of landscapes and environments. The advantage is that one can always add a module to extend the housing step by step, with each module, ones ,,saves" a wall.

It is an invention by Jaanus Orgusaar, an Estonian designer-inventor. He built the first one for his own family, and plans to add two more modules. One module is 25 sq metres.

The small house was brought to life from the need for a practical, sustainable and economical living space which would be easily mountable compiled from identical elements. The base element is a specific rhombus. The base for the structure is the rhombic dodecahedron.

The rhombic dodecahedron can be used to tessellate three-dimensional space. It can be stacked to fill a space much like hexagons fill a plane. Some minerals such as garnet form a rhombic dodecahedral crystal habit. Honeybees use the geometry of rhombic dodecahedra to form honeycomb from a tessellation of cells each of which is a hexagonal prism capped with half a rhombic dodecahedron. The rhombic dodecahedron also appears in the unit cells of diamond and diamondoids.
More (http://www.katus.eu/products/garden-house-noa)
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-04-09, 09:39:50
I was curious on how he intended them to be combined, and it seems to be like this (http://www.archdaily.com/479474/noa-garden-house-jaanus-orgusaar/):
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fad009cdnb.archdaily.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F02%2F53068b7dc07a80c45f000065_noa-garden-house-jaanus-orgusaar_01makett_-3-.jpg&hash=fee3e86464eae4297f8d592049b7c3e2" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://ad009cdnb.archdaily.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/53068b7dc07a80c45f000065_noa-garden-house-jaanus-orgusaar_01makett_-3-.jpg)
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-04-09, 12:22:13
I tried to find a tesselated version of the above structure, which my memory claimed was built in the 1970s, probably Netherlands-Germany-Britain somewhere. Google came up with this structure, which did fulfil these criteria, and was Dutch to boot (out of era/off-topic of course):

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.peyman.org%2Fimages%2F0803%2F15220110-cycle.jpg&hash=c5d29fc19c0ae8b03ec611ffc4b3c79d" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.peyman.org/images/0803/15220110-cycle.jpg)

This structure is 21st century and very vaguely similar, but not what I'm looking for.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: rjhowie on 2014-04-09, 20:11:36
I do like a lot of modern architecture whilst at the same time admire tradtional offerings. Many official buildings in America are fine  and outstanding in the traditional sector.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Belfrager on 2014-04-09, 21:19:48
Many official buildings in America are fine  and outstanding in the traditional sector.
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/index.php?action=reporttm;topic=92.122;msg=16661)

Such as...?
Ohh , I see, those imitations of columns and portics from the Greeks they like to put in front of buildings to give it some dignity as if they had History.
They also are famous for buying European castles and reassemble it right in the middle of Texas... really "outstanding architecture"...

Besides Frank Lloyd Wright (and his followers), I just can see a desert of imagination there and absolutely no idea whatsoever what architecture is about.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: ensbb3 on 2014-04-10, 12:58:10
Not enough Islamic influence for ya? Understandably, I guess. Most Americans came from more purely Christian Europe.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-04-10, 13:51:09
Yes, but the ancient Greeks and for the most part the ancient Romans did not.

Not that it really matters. Architecture, like all cultural expressions, is organised theft of ideas anyway.

Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-04-10, 14:09:45
Culturally, "Greeks" have come everywhere via Europe (and to some extent, through the Middle East to Asia). In Africa, Phoenicians may have had their influence, although eventually they were "overlorded" by the Corporation Of Towns. The Romans and a bunch of other guys would conquer the Greeks militarily, but...
Today's Greece, like a "mother potato", has handed itself out for others. Similarly, don't seek Romans in Italy. :rip: 
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-04-10, 14:16:09
Really? I thought you could find a couple million of 'em in Italy. :P
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Banned Member on 2014-04-10, 16:29:21
Do they build Roman? They can't even renovate the Coliseum! ;)
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Belfrager on 2014-04-10, 16:32:06

Not enough Islamic influence for ya? Understandably, I guess.

Not enough anything at all...
Most Americans came from more purely Christian Europe.

:lol: Nice sense of humor from the depths of rurality.

Not that it really matters. Architecture, like all cultural expressions, is organised theft of ideas anyway.

Organised theft of ideas, eh?
Well, at least you're turning a radical, not bad.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: ensbb3 on 2014-04-10, 18:56:36
Quote from: Belfrager

:lol: Nice sense of humor.

Aww, thx! Out here ina sticks without that electrification and a day's buggy ride from town, reckoned we gotta get some entertaining somehows. Y'all be rite careful now. Turn yer nose up in a rainstorm n ya might near drown. :chewchewspit: *ping*
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: rjhowie on 2014-04-11, 00:33:16
We have a modern bridge over the River Clyde in the centre of Glasgow. I doubt if many known it's real name as everyone just calls it "the squinty bridge" as it crosses the river at an angle.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-04-11, 08:52:41
This is somewhat related to the toic: http://nautil.us/blog/can-you-identify-these-cities-from-their-light-signatures

For the most part I had no idea, so I only got half right.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: ensbb3 on 2014-04-11, 14:11:58
We have a modern bridge over the River Clyde in the centre of Glasgow. I doubt if many known it's real name as everyone just calls it "the squinty bridge" as it crosses the river at an angle.


There was a plan to scrap the Shelby Street Bridge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelby_Street_Bridge) years ago. It crosses the Cumberland River near downtown in Nashville.
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTBgYkvyLXwMSw1KvNePZEASgZK0Cdwq6hHCz-csZ7MwtTNGGR5Sw)

I was hoping for a modern bridge design because of its prominence from Riverside Park. There were some great designs submitted but because it was built in the 1920's and had historical value they decided to just refurbish it. It doesn't look half bad at night with all the lights tho.
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F5%2F59%2FShelby_street_bridge_night.jpg%2F220px-Shelby_street_bridge_night.jpg&hash=d82fbfdfcc33ed9c48f49efc3d69abe0" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/59/Shelby_street_bridge_night.jpg/220px-Shelby_street_bridge_night.jpg)

Edit:
I should add, It's a pedestrian bridge now. They did build a modern bridge for motor-traffic. The Gateway Bridge.
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fbusinessclimate.com%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fimagecache%2Fnode_article_610x398_scale_crop%2F7230110jkk3500A_1.jpg&hash=eb18af5777785cf6d4c021858d73af42" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://businessclimate.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/node_article_610x398_scale_crop/7230110jkk3500A_1.jpg)
Yay.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-04-11, 15:07:31

This is somewhat related to the toic: http://nautil.us/blog/can-you-identify-these-cities-from-their-light-signatures


Interesting, I got most wrong, but if I had followed my first thought I would have gotten most right.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: ensbb3 on 2014-04-11, 18:04:05
I only got 5 right. Process of elimination gave me a few cause New York and LA were my only certain ones. First instinct would of got me two more.

Wonder if the view from space will ever influence building or city design?
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-04-11, 18:11:54
I recognized New York, LA, Brasilia ("educated" guess), Tokyo ("educated" guess), Istanbul (educated guess + elimination), Las Vegas (elimination), and Riyadh (elimination again). Whatever other one I got was just luck.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-04-11, 18:15:39
Wonder if the view from space will ever influence building or city design?

I swear I saw neighborhoods in animal shapes while flying from Detroit to Chicago at night. But given that I went snowboarding in Germany the night before and that America was just so freaking square, I suppose I could've started hallucinating more interesting visions. :P Also, that was the most comfortable plane ever.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: ensbb3 on 2014-04-11, 19:07:35
Lol, yeah. If it had an excessive grid pattern I knew to guess an American city. Still luck was not with me. Even between two options I missed a couple. Statistically amiss.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-04-11, 20:49:15
First part of the new (and empty) Xiangluowan business district in Tianjin Binhai is getting completed.

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FHQ3wr1T.jpg&hash=fa420ff6587729232a1d563fbf5c9836" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/HQ3wr1T.jpg)
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FDNDsuKq.jpg&hash=742744972ff0edb7231f5f360e2460ce" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/DNDsuKq.jpg)
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FBajyAWw.jpg&hash=eeba260165264e6dfb1a0681f5c7e492" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/BajyAWw.jpg)
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FJ0xzz6L.jpg&hash=08829fc3a4472aeb596f7fefb101c33a" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/J0xzz6L.jpg)

Yujiapu financial district across the river:
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FYztGVnR.jpg&hash=c417b9e61485c4f6c5cdf5d71c477776" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/YztGVnR.jpg)
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FS59xiwH.jpg&hash=866baa753aceb125f134f29642303ee9" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/S59xiwH.jpg)
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Belfrager on 2014-04-11, 21:06:28
All that is not good architecture, be it 21 century or any other time.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: rjhowie on 2014-04-11, 23:46:54
You probably have a good point there.  Too much gets boring.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-04-12, 06:29:22
The last page has been mostly on cities, and not on [21st century] architecture, so I made an urban thread (https://thedndsanctuary.eu/index.php?topic=300.new#new).
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-04-27, 08:17:58
An Arabian Dream, King Abdulaziz Center for world culture.

Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-04-27, 09:55:44
For those who rather like their buildings to stand tall, Saudi Kingdom Tower in Jeddah is under construction to reach up 1 km (originally 1 mile, but that is what happens when switching to metric).
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.dezeen.com%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F08%2Fdezeen_Kingdom-Tower-worlds-tallest-building-1.jpg&hash=f6b3ca0d0836fa384cfaa2bd8d6ac643" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://static.dezeen.com/uploads/2011/08/dezeen_Kingdom-Tower-worlds-tallest-building-1.jpg)
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: rjhowie on 2014-04-27, 14:50:22
It is a pointless and showing off kind of waste of money.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-04-27, 14:54:32
For those who rather like their buildings to stand tall, Saudi Kingdom Tower in Jeddah is under construction to reach up 1 km (originally 1 mile, but that is what happens when switching to metric).

That looks strongly inspired by the Mile High Illinois (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Illinois).
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: string on 2014-04-27, 14:55:54
I can see the point! :)
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-04-27, 15:38:32
Yep, it is definitely more pointy than pointless. It is most likely inspired, though I don't know the background. Anyway it is one of the likely shapes if building very tall is your overarching goal. It has some superficial similarities to Burj Khalifa as well, except being a couple hundred meters taller.

It will be built slightly to the north of Jeddah, near the King Abdulaziz International Airport to be greatly expanded (http://riyadhconnect.com/in-pictures-final-design-of-the-new-king-abdulaziz-international-airport-in-jeddah-revealed/) in the coming years. This is the airport of the Hajj.
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Friyadhconnect.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F06%2F01.jpg&hash=25eeb03aa6dd265c14adbf15be4f0c15" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://riyadhconnect.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/01.jpg)
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Friyadhconnect.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F06%2F02.jpg&hash=7999e6af7e6abffba557cca7911a7b95" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://riyadhconnect.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/02.jpg)


The airport in turn will be connected to a new Haramain high-speed railway that starting in Medina, connecting to the new King Abdullah Economic City under construction, this airport, Jeddah, will whisk people to Mecca to do the Hajj. Actually you have to switch to the recently-built Mecca metro, which is a bit of a downer, but you'll get there. Above ground lesser people are doing their pilgrimage on foot and in diesel busses.

The design for the Jeddah station.
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.saudirailways.org%2Fimages%2FSRO%2Fimages%2Fsd7.jpg&hash=df54c5b9237246f51be81e3797d98862" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.saudirailways.org/images/SRO/images/sd7.jpg)
Medina
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.saudirailways.org%2Fimages%2FSRO%2Fimages%2Fsd4.jpg&hash=7694bdbd71cb7e3ff890ce1f55eec026" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.saudirailways.org/images/SRO/images/sd4.jpg)
Mecca ground entrance
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fosterandpartners.com%2Fmedia%2FProjects%2F1794%2Fimg2.jpg&hash=19e2893299ae5c69c0b5f015efe64735" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.fosterandpartners.com/media/Projects/1794/img2.jpg)

Incidentally the bin Laden family have the main construction contract for the Kingdom Tower skyscraper, the airport extension, and the Haramain rail stations.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: string on 2014-04-27, 16:19:44
Building construction you say.

Hmmmm.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-04-27, 17:41:21
Anyway it is one of the likely shapes if building very tall is your overarching goal. It has some superficial similarities to Burj Khalifa as well, except being a couple hundred meters taller.

Perhaps. The previous name, Mile-High Tower, also rings like an allusion. :)

Link to a diagram of the "Mile High" Illinois (http://skyscraperpage.com/cities/?buildingID=5138).
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-04-27, 17:45:31
More King Abdullah Economic City
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Frenzie on 2014-04-27, 18:12:25
A city that embraces the future of gender apartheid. :right:
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-04-29, 03:19:19
The Grand Mosque 4.0, Mecca. TBD  2020.



Also see this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_early_Islamic_heritage_sites_in_Saudi_Arabia).
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Belfrager on 2014-04-29, 11:28:15
21st century architecture should be much more things like this:
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Ffavim.com%2Forig%2F201104%2F16%2FFavim.com-19784.jpg&hash=68fcea9c6c466e6e01526df9af5a4b1d" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://favim.com/orig/201104/16/Favim.com-19784.jpg)
I suppose the above example is just a mere passive usage of energetic solutions, it's fundamental to integrate active energetic production (solar panels, windmills, Stirling engines, etc) in order to reach self sustainability as well as water efficiency (something that I suspect was not considered with so many areas of lawn).
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-04-29, 12:07:13
It will probably be a bit of both. Supertalls are a bit of a showoff. Except for places that really run on limited land like Singapore there is no reason to build that tall, and they build dense rather than tall. Likewise if everyone built big garden villas the traffic would be immense.

The video from Stockholm (Hammarby Lake Town) I posted a couple pages back is in the middle. The buildings are dense enough that you can actually walk somewhere other than to your neighbour's villa, while still quite open and light. It is quite central as well. This seems to be a typical case of what happens when the 19th (or early 20th) century industry shuts down or move out of the city.



Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Belfrager on 2014-04-29, 12:53:35
Likewise if everyone built big garden villas the traffic would be immense.

We are concerned with different things. Your problem is how to accommodate more and more millions into cities, how to solve practical problems, mine to convince them to return to the countryside.

Architecture by itself, it's neuter, it has solutions for both tendencies. I think that only by returning to the countryside architecture can help man to regain again the scale of his own proportion and, therefor, the key for an harmonious life.

When architecture had a strong political meaning, as it had during the Reich with the magnificent work of Albert Speer, I could see reasons (agreeing or not) for it's existence but not anymore. The role of politics in Architecture was substituted by an emptiness that has created the trash people call modernity.
Such emptiness should allow to make a major move, a radical shift at our destiny's direction.

People can see my opinion as utopian's but it isn't. We are doing nothing at cities and when we do nothing we are nothing.

Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-04-29, 12:58:47
when the 19th (or early 20th) century industry shuts down or move out of the city.

Or a redesigned waste power plant, like from this hedonistic sustainability talk (http://www.ted.com/talks/bjarke_ingels_hedonistic_sustainability).




This waste-to-energy ski slope has an opening date of 2016.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1.0-9/s720x720/1535419_662843370404788_2103410184_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1.0-9/s720x720/1486678_667584899930635_878255071_n.jpg)
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-04-30, 04:48:51
Speaking of starchitects, MAD have just began constructing their Chaoyang Park Plaza (http://www.archdaily.com/501064/mad-breaks-ground-on-proposal-that-redefines-beijing-s-city-landscape/) in Beijing, based on their concept of mountain and water.

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fad009cdnb.archdaily.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F04%2F535ed59cc07a805a38000019_mad-breaks-ground-on-proposal-that-redefines-beijing-s-city-landscape-_3-_mad_12003_chaoyang_park_plaza_i_03_rendering_birdvie.jpg&hash=7a0bba80900836d4025344c23b7723d5" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://ad009cdnb.archdaily.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/535ed59cc07a805a38000019_mad-breaks-ground-on-proposal-that-redefines-beijing-s-city-landscape-_3-_mad_12003_chaoyang_park_plaza_i_03_rendering_birdvie.jpg)
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fad009cdnb.archdaily.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F04%2F535ed4f0c07a805a38000016_mad-breaks-ground-on-proposal-that-redefines-beijing-s-city-landscape-_8-_mad_12003_chaoyang_park_plaza_i_08_towards_the_highr.jpg&hash=8155b053199e765674d450d7b30e205c" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://ad009cdnb.archdaily.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/535ed4f0c07a805a38000016_mad-breaks-ground-on-proposal-that-redefines-beijing-s-city-landscape-_8-_mad_12003_chaoyang_park_plaza_i_08_towards_the_highr.jpg)
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fad009cdnb.archdaily.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F04%2F535ed83cc07a805a38000023_mad-breaks-ground-on-proposal-that-redefines-beijing-s-city-landscape-_6-_mad_12003_chaoyang_park_plaza_i_05_rendering_view_of.jpg&hash=6b8d75e98df69f5ee5d1d65c1b29dfcb" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://ad009cdnb.archdaily.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/535ed83cc07a805a38000023_mad-breaks-ground-on-proposal-that-redefines-beijing-s-city-landscape-_6-_mad_12003_chaoyang_park_plaza_i_05_rendering_view_of.jpg)
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fad009cdnb.archdaily.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F04%2F535ed573c07a80a25900001d_mad-breaks-ground-on-proposal-that-redefines-beijing-s-city-landscape-_2-_mad_12003_chaoyang_park_plaza_i_02_overview_with_cit.jpg&hash=ea65356a8612811f50d848196f9f0a80" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://ad009cdnb.archdaily.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/535ed573c07a80a25900001d_mad-breaks-ground-on-proposal-that-redefines-beijing-s-city-landscape-_2-_mad_12003_chaoyang_park_plaza_i_02_overview_with_cit.jpg)

The buildings are inspired by this oil painting by Wang Mingxian:
(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fad009cdnb.archdaily.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F04%2F535ed6c6c07a805a3800001c_mad-breaks-ground-on-proposal-that-redefines-beijing-s-city-landscape-_23-mad_12003_chaoyang_park_plaza_p_23_oil_painting_by_w.jpg&hash=e537ac0416ff8f0d68a6442f15c713b9" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://ad009cdnb.archdaily.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/535ed6c6c07a805a3800001c_mad-breaks-ground-on-proposal-that-redefines-beijing-s-city-landscape-_23-mad_12003_chaoyang_park_plaza_p_23_oil_painting_by_w.jpg)
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Belfrager on 2014-04-30, 08:13:08
It should be called The Monster of the Lagoon...
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2014-08-29, 14:07:09
The MAD architect was interviewed in Venice (http://www.dezeen.com/2014/08/06/movie-interview-ma-yansong-mad-shan-shui-city-invent-new-typology-high-rise-architecture/) (can't embed though) about their mountain-water architecture and the rest.

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.dezeen.com%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F06%2FMAD-at-the-Venice-Architecture-Biennale-2014_dezeen_468_0.jpg&hash=9e4fca7258155f4a5277d52b684a094e" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://static.dezeen.com/uploads/2014/06/MAD-at-the-Venice-Architecture-Biennale-2014_dezeen_468_0.jpg)
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Belfrager on 2014-08-30, 12:27:26
From the link
Quote
The concept is based on a traditional style of Chinese painting, which depicts natural scenery such as mountains, rivers and waterfalls.


Wrong. The concept it's to be the perfect scenario for a New Order and it's achieved by way of cheap plagiarism of Albert Speer's inspired vision of an architecture thought to serve the "One Thousand Years Reich".

You can visualize a couple of Alfa people chatting together while super fast elevators leads them to their penthouses with a view while, at the underground, hordes of Epsilon slaves works to feed the masters.

Time for a bit of Soma... I'm too much wake up.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2016-03-29, 11:56:17
Portugese abode (http://www.dezeen.com/2013/09/12/cabanas-no-rio-by-aires-mateus/)

(https://static.dezeen.com/uploads/2013/09/dezeen_Cabanas-no-Rio-by-Aires-Mateus_7.jpg)
(https://static.dezeen.com/uploads/2013/09/dezeen_Cabanas-no-Rio-by-Aires-Mateus_5.jpg)
(https://static.dezeen.com/uploads/2013/09/dezeen_Cabanas-no-Rio-by-Aires-Mateus_3.jpg)
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-03-29, 13:52:25
The MAD architect was interviewed in Venice (http://www.dezeen.com/2014/08/06/movie-interview-ma-yansong-mad-shan-shui-city-invent-new-typology-high-rise-architecture/) (can't embed though) about their mountain-water architecture and the rest.

What does MAD mean?
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2016-03-30, 07:23:30
There are at least two MAD architects. This Chinese (http://www.i-mad.com/) and a Norwegian (http://www.mad.no). The case implies an acronym,  as is the case for the Norwegian Moderne Arkitektur og Design, while the Chinese Ma Design, after the founder Ma Yansong (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma_Yansong), is more of an edge case of 马D → MAD. A more conventional way of forming abbreviations is to transcribe the characters into pinyin and take the initial letter from each. So Beijing, 北京, with the first character 北 Bei (north) and the second 京 Jing (capital) → BJ. Thus the souvenir t-shirts, beloved by tourists,with the legend I♥BJ.

The building in still under construction (http://www.designboom.com/architecture/mad-architects-chaoyang-park-plaza-china-06-30-2015/),  but you can see a video here (http://www.i-mad.com/work/chaoyang-park-plaza/?cid=4).
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-03-30, 07:45:23
you can see a video here (http://www.i-mad.com/work/chaoyang-park-plaza/?cid=4).

Sort of. As is par for the course with such videos from China, it ranges from stuttering to freezing.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2016-03-30, 08:31:33
Here you go



While at Youtube, one from Stockholm

Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2016-04-01, 13:58:41
Starchitect Zaha Hadid just died, several of her works and plans are earlier in this thread. Some more:

Zaha Hadid's 10 best buildings in pictures (http://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2016/mar/31/zaha-hadid-10-best-buildings-in-pictures) (The Guardian)


Zaha Hadid: a life in buildings (http://www.dezeen.com/2016/03/31/zaha-hadid-life-in-architecture-projects/) (Dezeen)



(https://static.dezeen.com/uploads/2016/03/Messner-Mountain-Museum-Corones-by-Zaha-Hadid-SQ_dezeen_468c_2.jpg)

A local winning proposal for Upplands Väsby, the first station from Stockholm Arlanda airport to the city.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Frenzie on 2016-06-10, 18:24:02
A new wine museum opened in Bordeaux, called La Cité du Vin. It's said to be inspired by the swirl of wine in a glass, although in some ways it looks more like an oddly shaped glass.

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi-cms.linternaute.com%2Fimage_cms%2F750%2F10323070-la-cite-du-vin-de-bordeaux.jpg&hash=be88c88cc9e8489a2e0ac5c7c0886ea1" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i-cms.linternaute.com/image_cms/750/10323070-la-cite-du-vin-de-bordeaux.jpg) (http://www.linternaute.com/actualite/photo-reportage/1309219-decouvrez-la-cite-du-vin-de-bordeaux/)

https://vimeo.com/161025171

Edit: all the boring info here in French http://www.bordeaux.fr/p47144/la-cite-du-vin
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2016-09-12, 07:41:40
when the 19th (or early 20th) century industry shuts down or move out of the city.
Or a redesigned waste power plant, like from this hedonistic sustainability talk (http://www.ted.com/talks/bjarke_ingels_hedonistic_sustainability).




This waste-to-energy ski slope has an opening date of 2016.

Not sure if it is fully on schedule, but the opening is getting close.

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi1337.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo672%2Fmargoneemela%2FP1010291_zpsohu6ljxt.jpg&hash=64da2351ae550b8940282c3e75c8b1e5" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i1337.photobucket.com/albums/o672/margoneemela/P1010291_zpsohu6ljxt.jpg)


(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8491/29531842281_47d344e184_h.jpg)
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: ersi on 2017-03-07, 10:43:35
Microsoft's office in Italy is made entirely of windows http://architizer.com/projects/microsoft-house-2/

(https://architizer-prod.imgix.net/media/1488792849569gallery-hp-2-1893x1065.jpg)
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: krake on 2017-03-07, 14:33:27
Microsoft's office in Italy is made entirely of windows http://architizer.com/projects/microsoft-house-2/
We have nothing to hide.  :lol:
It must be very funny to keep those windows clean and I don't mean malware but dirt.  ;)
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2017-03-31, 10:23:59
Cool 21st century living, updated capsule hotel in Kyoto.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRT4dU6r-KQ
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Belfrager on 2017-04-01, 12:09:30
Better to be in jail.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: ersi on 2017-04-01, 12:54:39
Better to be in jail.
Are you? Is that why you could not post so long?
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Belfrager on 2017-04-01, 13:13:06
Not yet, no, I still resist.  :D
What I meant it's that is better to be in jail than to be at such "capsule hotel". More room and for free.

(English language gets paradoxal, free and jail got together...)
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: rjhowie on 2017-04-02, 05:37:28
The language is expertly universal mind you......
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: ensbb3 on 2017-04-02, 19:37:49
paradoxal
Paradoxical* [ Borrows heavily from Latin, ;) ]
More room and for free.
There's no doubt many a word has multiple meanings... But in this case you shortened a phrase - "free of charge" - which is just a bad writing habit everyone suffers from from time to time occasionally. Redundancies in words and meanings can be avoided by swapping terms around.

However, technically the statement is still false. The 'currency' in jail is time. And time is money. Depending on how you look at it.
(I guess if your time is worthless then it's a wash.)
What I meant it's that is better to be in jail than to be at such "capsule hotel".
It'd be novel to stay in one once or twice. Given my height it would probably get old fast.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Belfrager on 2017-04-02, 20:57:04
Hello ensbb3
The 'currency' in jail is time... yes indeed. And time is much more valuable than simple worthless money. Time is all you have.

Those capsule hotels are meant to reduce human dignity, to treat humans as insects, insignificant beings in a cage. Asian societies always had a propensity for doing that.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: ensbb3 on 2017-04-02, 21:28:22
Olá
Those capsule hotels are meant to reduce human dignity, to treat humans as insects, insignificant beings in a cage. Asian societies always had a propensity for doing that.
Indeed. Although I'd assume it serves a practical purpose more than meant to be degrading. Given the population densities.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2017-04-03, 08:05:38
Capsule hotels are transitory, a means to rejuvenate and refresh on the way to home or work. Small, windowless rooms or capsules are the best way to get a great night's sleep (good ventilation and sound insulation are of course a given). 

There is a similar trend here in Stockholm where store basements are turned into hotels. The airport also had a capsule hotel a long while ago, but that one is gone decades ago. There's a reconstructed 747 (http://www.jumbostay.com/), but that is more in the youth hostel category.

While originally intended as an alternative to going home, longer-term stays are attractive too. Hotel rooms are a distraction from the place you visit. Unless that place is miserable of course, then lounging at the hotel can be a refuge. Compact hotels tend to be in more optimal locations than traditional hotels. That's all a function of real estate prices. Since a compact hotel uses less real estate, that is less a cost factor, and they can be at more expensive locations.

Which is pretty much the case in Asia as well. Room size is not a function of population size, but of real estate prices. China has a higher population than Japan, but while Japanese rooms tend to be small and clever,  Chinese hotel rooms were traditionally large and miserable. This is changing now, the Chinese are learning from the Japanese and the Europeans, rooms are getting smaller and much better, but large, miserable hotel rooms are supposedly common in Asia (though I have never opted for any). 
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: ensbb3 on 2017-04-03, 13:49:17
Capsule hotels are transitory, a means to rejuvenate and refresh on the way to home or work.
An interesting concept. I'd still want to, blindly, argue the concept is derivative of the environment. Way more space in a capusle than the train ride home right after work, so why not chill and catch a later ride home?
Small, windowless rooms or capsules are the best way to get a great night's sleep (good ventilation and sound insulation are of course a given).
And I get it. If I could push the autopilot for a self driving car on my way home and crawl off in the back seat I'd be in haven. But then that kinda seems the death of capsule rooms in that sense.
The airport also had a capsule hotel a long while ago, but that one is gone decades ago.
This makes sense, to me anyway. Long layover - wanna get out of the airport atmosphere. Yeah, I'd appreciate it. Seems maybe it didn't work so well... at least years ago.
There's a reconstructed 747 (http://www.jumbostay.com/), but that is more in the youth hostel category.
I can even understand this... Just couldn't find an emoji that expressed the look on my face. (≈$226 for the "Double Deluxe Ensuite (Cockpit Suite)". Yeah, I spent too much time on that site.)
While originally intended as an alternative to going home, longer-term stays are attractive too.
But this just isn't for me. I prefer the refuge option at least.
Which is pretty much the case in Asia as well. Room size is not a function of population size, but of real estate prices. China has a higher population than Japan, but while Japanese rooms tend to be small and clever,  Chinese hotel rooms were traditionally large and miserable. This is changing now, the Chinese are learning from the Japanese and the Europeans, rooms are getting smaller and much better, but large, miserable hotel rooms are supposedly common in Asia (though I have never opted for any).
But moreover all these places have way more people than I'm used to. Also dependency on public transit and otherwise dealing with limited mobility (and people) is(/are) a part of culture.

It really doesn't cost that much to put a decent car on the road legally, especially given what it can return in regards to mobility options. Being able to drive up the road to get a place away from the crowd is a luxury in and of itself. To me.  
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Belfrager on 2017-04-07, 23:21:16
Small, windowless rooms or capsules are the best way to get a great night's sleep (good ventilation and sound insulation are of course a given).
Coffins...
Bunch of vampires.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: krake on 2017-04-08, 00:07:30
Coffins...
Bunch of vampires.
Not exactly. Coffins for the poor and nice bedrooms for the vampires.

Wonder when our honored politicians will spend their nights abroad in small, windowless capsules? ;)

Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Belfrager on 2017-04-08, 22:00:27
Coffins for the poor and nice bedrooms for the vampires.
With a little help from myself finally this thread entered the right way. Architecture turned at the XXI century just like the clock industry, cheap digital for the poor, extremely expensive "analogic" luxury only for the rich.

There's not any reason to justify to close people inside "capsules", even less by trying to justify it with commuting/economic reasons.
When industrial factories were invented, proletarians were not put inside sarcophagus.

Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2017-04-21, 01:24:56
Consider the likelihood of a nuclear holocaust! We can all be ashes together! :)
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2017-05-13, 15:34:45
18 m² Simplicity (from a longer series)

https://youtu.be/OmTf-dqTaao
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2017-05-13, 15:49:37
The cat house (same series)

https://youtu.be/EdGqub9oU5w

Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Frenzie on 2017-05-13, 18:28:10
I don't really see the attraction in a bathtub -- I think I've used ours exactly 0 times.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2017-05-14, 07:31:09
I wonder what the opposite of acquired taste is. I used to enjoy a good, long soak (http://hitchhikers.wikia.com/wiki/Golgafrincham) reading or watching something, and cold/warm drinks (depending on weather or mood). A couple years ago I moved into a flat with a fancy tub with massage and other features. I used it twice.  Since I think I took a bath at a hotel once. That's the end of it. Showers all the way. 

In Beijing I had a fancy decontamination type shower with multiple streams and massage (but without seat and air dryer). It was kind of pointless in Beijing though. A city by the Gobi desert, it suffers from water shortage and also had low water pressure. More like trickle down than full steam. LEDs and loudspeakers are used for a more immersive showering experience. A hotel room in Paris had a LED "night sky" shower (when you turned the main light off). That was enjoyable, but the light points were built into the wall, so when those light points wear out they would have to change the wall. 

The most useless fad is the fixed overhead shower. Moving into a new flat soon, and was offered the option for a cool 500€ extra (not even ceiling mounted, just an extra head). These are old-time school (or sauna) showers, there is nothing cool about them at all. I think the idea is to recreate the feeling of rain, the key is showering outdoors, not overhead water stream you cannot move or modify. I have argued for that for our farm shower in Northern Norway, at the edge of wilderness. Get rid of the bath tub, get a more vertical window that could be opened for a more exposed (at will) shower experience. Not that stupid overhead thing. 


Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Frenzie on 2017-05-14, 08:52:19
I think our "rain" shower head isn't too bad, although it broke (maybe because it was a small fraction of €500 :P).

I prefer swimming over just sitting around in water, although I did one or twice (in '03-ish) spend an hour or more reading a book in bath. But when you get right down to it I prefer reading outside (in our current weather) or in a blanket wrapped up on the couch or something like that. I also prefer meditating or just lazing around without water, really.

Plus there's the amount of water involved. I shower in just a couple of minutes at lukewarm temp, sometimes cold. I haven't actually done the math, but assuming it takes 10 minutes to fill a bath that'd be several month's worth of water and I can't even fathom how much extra energy wasted. For something I don't even like that much anyway.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2017-05-14, 10:12:42
Something like this?

(https://static.dezeen.com/uploads/2011/12/dezeen_Villa-Midgard-by-DAPstockholm-1.jpg)

I have thought if I had unlimited money I might like a Houdini cube in the middle of a multifloor apartment, hoping that the weight of the water wouldn't collapse the floor. Like this, though this is an infinity pool in a Stockholm villa (https://www.dezeen.com/2011/12/27/villa-midgard-by-dapstockholm/), not an apartment escapist challenge. 

https://youtu.be/IOVrvZ3aKt4

Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Frenzie on 2017-05-14, 15:23:16
Sure, but put some swamp plants in there for water filtration. http://www.ecopoolsonline.com/

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ecopoolsonline.com%2Fimg%2F0_38%2FL_0_38_1349699124.jpg&hash=c2fb32ca74a0923466aa550575c95eca" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.ecopoolsonline.com/img/0_38/L_0_38_1349699124.jpg)

(The plant part isn't for swimming in.)
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2017-05-19, 06:25:39
Stockholm secret sauna. The building code for this inner city property only allowed a 3 m² (32 sq.ft.) toolshed, while the owner wanted a sauna. This is what the architect came up with (https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.stockholmdirekt.se%2Fnyheter%2Fhemlig-bastu-byggs-i-innerstan-ser-ut-som-en-redskapsbod%2Frepqeq!UGOlfXYwPsfXR60ucdJGog%2F):

(https://thedndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.stockholmdirekt.se%2F_internal%2Fcimg%210%2Falnnfgd3de6cm8zv5tj4kr04apdjt29&hash=e80d3e3758fcd18417f149c34d2acc03" rel="cached" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.stockholmdirekt.se/_internal/cimg!0/alnnfgd3de6cm8zv5tj4kr04apdjt29)

Quote
A unique mini sauna is being built in the city center, just a stone's throw from the water. But actually the sauna is illegal. "You can only build a tool shed there, so we make a shed that contains a sauna."


The sauna, which will be built on site this summer, is built as a three square meter tool shed. But the building can be hinged out. Suddenly it has benches, a window section and room for a sauna unit.

- It is impossible to see there is a sauna before the house is folded out. A similar construction has probably never been done before,  

[font="PT Sans", "Helvetica Neue", sans-serif]"It's always fun trying to find loopholes in the law.
 Of course, it's a little provocative to the city building office, but it's good to find out where the boundaries are going, and those who work there may find it interesting to investigate this, "says Anders Berensson.[/font][/size][/color]
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Frenzie on 2017-05-19, 07:29:22
It's always fun to come to an interpretation based on your knowledge of other languages.

Quote from: Google Translate (wow, pretty good)
The architect has previously built another Secret Sauna, which is widely used in a secret location in the Stockholm archipelago.

Quote from: Original
Arkitekten har tidigare byggt en annan så kallad "Secret Sauna", som finns och används flitigt på en hemlig plats i Stockholms skärgård.

De architect heeft eerder[1] gebouwd[2] een andere so-called[3] "Secret Sauna," som finns[4] [...] aanwenden[5] vlijtigt[6] een heimelijke plaats[7] in Stockholms schiergaarde[8].
tijdig=on time, tijdiger=more on time, but in this case earlier or previously
looks more like a cognate with Dutch buigen (bend) or gebogen (bent), or maybe a cognate with English buy
yeah, not Dutch, but that's kind of my point here :P Dutch, English, and German all help to make sense of it.
clearly finns must be related to English find and Dutch vinden
aanwenden=use
vlijtig = industrious, in this case probably more like industrious→busy→being used but that's not Dutch
a secret place
a near yard/orchard... not actually a word in Dutch, mind you. I guess the group of islands sense of archipelago means something like "an almost (regular, not divided by sea) domain". Note that a schiereiland (a near island) is a peninsula. Interestingly, there are actually some early 18th century German attestations of the word Schiergaard, e.g., here (http://www.zobodat.at/pdf/Zeitschrift-fuer-wiss-Zoologie_89_0417-0477.pdf).

Quote
Bei Bergen konnte inmitten der Schiergaard-Inseln eine sehr günstige Stelle zum Fange von Travisia gefunden werden

"At Bergen you could find a very favorable spot to catch Travisia(???) in the middle of the Schiergaard islands." Is it actually a placename in Norway or just a German misinterpretation?
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: ersi on 2017-05-19, 07:54:11
I remember reading somewhere that Google Translate has two core elements:

- synthesising available human translations
- machine translation

What may appear as a passable work of the latter is normally the former. When a translation at Google Translate is surprisingly good, it means you happened to hit on an oft-translated and well-synthesised topic. Machine translation in its proper sense continues to be a still-born idea.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Frenzie on 2017-05-19, 08:35:07
Yes, that is the core of machine translation. Large corpora of translated texts (official EU texts being a major source) are used as input to teach the machine. Such sources are made more explicit on a site like bab.la (http://nl.bab.la/woordenboek/engels-nederlands/buy). Click the down arrow on the right → link to source and you'll see it automatically grabs context from TED talks, European parliament documents,[1] opensubtitles, etc. I quite like bab.la because it collects the results of previous human translations, which can include reformulations of idiomatic or figurative phrases at which machine translation is notoriously bad. Note that fairly recently, Google Translate claims to have improved by leaps and bounds (http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=28421), which is true. The announcement in September '16 was only about Chinese, but by now I think it's been upgraded on most or all languages.

Of course you're quite right that the machine doesn't actually know what things mean. But at the same time it's capable of some very impressive tricks related to noticing patterns. It doesn't know what pets or farm animals are, for example, but the algorithm can actually notice that words like cat and dog are often used in similar contexts. As such it has been demonstrated to be able to make a very educated guess at translating a word like dog between two languages even if there is not a singe human-made translation of the word available to teach it.

PS If you're interested I could mail you my bachelor's thesis. I like to think I wrote a pretty decent overview of the inner workings of machine translation.
This is what results in translating London to Amsterdam.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: ersi on 2017-05-19, 08:44:17
Of course you're quite right that the machine doesn't actually know what things mean. But at the same time it's capable of some very impressive tricks related to noticing patterns. It doesn't know what pets or farm animals are, for example, but the algorithm can actually notice that words like cat and dog are often used in similar contexts. As such it has been demonstrated to be able to make a very educated guess at translating a word like dog between two languages even if there is not a singe human-made translation of the word available to teach it.
Yes, I know that "noticing patterns" is what machines do and it looks often outright amazing. However, I also know that machines know nothing about the thing called context unless it's pre-defined and fed in (by humans, duh). When some of the semantic or grammatical categories happen to realign due to cultural progress (or regress, fads, new inventions), the machine cannot update itself.

For example, it may be able to do lexical innovation based on regular derivation patterns, but it cannot tell which innovations actually take root with the language community. This must be updated manually. The machine doesn't do educated guesses. It does mechanical trial and error - it might get it right, but it's fundamentally still pure chance.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: ersi on 2017-05-19, 09:09:57
PS If you're interested I could mail you my bachelor's thesis. I like to think I wrote a pretty decent overview of the inner workings of machine translation.
Hey, that would be great! It might marginally touch on the thesis that I am planning. Unfortunately I didn't get it going this year, even though I am doing my best to catch up with the science.

My own batchelor's thingie is most likely uninteresting to you. It's contrasting Finnish and Estonian orthography, not very interesting even for myself these days.

Hopefully my vivaldi.net address works. If not, I will make it work.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Frenzie on 2017-05-19, 09:17:28
My own batchelor's thingie is most likely uninteresting to you. It's contrasting Finnish and Estonian orthography, not very interesting even for myself these days.
Maybe, maybe not. I actually thought that the chapters on Spanish, French, English and German in Orthographies in Early Modern Europe (http://www.oapen.org/search?identifier=626372;keyword=orthographies) were interesting enough to read, not skim. The chapter on Swedish I read more selectively and I don't yet know what I'll do with Polish.

Edit:
Hopefully my vivaldi.net address works. If not, I will make it work.
Sent.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: ersi on 2017-05-19, 09:51:32
Mine had to do with normative guidelines for orthography, not with historical development. Basically, my point there was that I can do better than some of the details of the current norms are. Particularly boring.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2017-05-19, 12:53:51
It's always fun to come to an interpretation based on your knowledge of other languages.

Quote from: Google Translate (wow, pretty good)
The architect has previously built another Secret Sauna, which is widely used in a secret location in the Stockholm archipelago.

Quote from: Original
Arkitekten har tidigare byggt en annan så kallad "Secret Sauna", som finns och används flitigt på en hemlig plats i Stockholms skärgård.

De architect heeft eerder[1]

Here there is a discrepancy between my Norwegian and Swedish. Swedish tidig(are) is Norwegian tidlig(ere), early (earlier). To my ears tidig (without the "L") would be something timely or in time, not something early. The word utidig (un-timely) means inappropriate in modern Norwegian. Looking it up, tidig supposedly also has meanings like fresh, quick, nice, something presumably dialectal I never heard of before now. 


gebouwd[2] 
cognate, originally, with buildByggnad is building. Swedish bo, to dwell, is also related

 een andere so-called[3]
kalla of course means to name something/someone. Not in Dutch?


"Secret Sauna," som finns[4]
Yes, the original root is (something) found, has a straight correspondence with the English word exist

aanwenden[5] vlijtigt[6]Marked of German and Low German origin respectively. Flitig has the primary sense of diligent(ly), but here used a lot, all the time.

 een heimelijke plaats[7]From Norse heimiligr, originally "home-ly", domestic, then private, then secret. 

 in Stockholms schiergaarde[8]
-gård is cognate to a lot of stuff, like yard, or like Russian -gorod (city), or castle, or farm, or building. Skär too has a wide range and PIE roots, here it seems to have come from sker, a Norse word for small island or holm, loose English cognates skerry and even shore, and possibly related PIE *sker (cut), from which another skär, meaning cliff, also has arisen as well as the Swedish word for cutting. Finally another branch is related to shimmer or shine. Uniquely among Scandinavian languages Swedish skär also means pink, but that is a fairly modern meaning, a couple hundred years, coming from French coleur de chair. In other words this word for pink actually means "meat coloured", making it a whole lot less romantic.
tijdig=on time, tijdiger=more on time, but in this case earlier or previously
looks more like a cognate with Dutch buigen (bend) or gebogen (bent), or maybe a cognate with English buy
yeah, not Dutch, but that's kind of my point here :P Dutch, English, and German all help to make sense of it.
clearly finns must be related to English find and Dutch vinden
aanwenden=use
vlijtig = industrious, in this case probably more like industrious→busy→being used but that's not Dutch
a secret place
a near yard/orchard... not actually a word in Dutch, mind you. I guess the group of islands sense of archipelago means something like "an almost (regular, not divided by sea) domain". Note that a schiereiland (a near island) is a peninsula. Interestingly, there are actually some early 18th century German attestations of the word Schiergaard, e.g., here (http://www.zobodat.at/pdf/Zeitschrift-fuer-wiss-Zoologie_89_0417-0477.pdf).

Quote
Bei Bergen konnte inmitten der Schiergaard-Inseln eine sehr günstige Stelle zum Fange von Travisia gefunden werden

"At Bergen you could find a very favorable spot to catch Travisia(???) in the middle of the Schiergaard islands." Is it actually a placename in Norway or just a German misinterpretation?
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Frenzie on 2017-05-19, 13:22:03
kalla of course means to name something/someone. Not in Dutch?
Kallen used to exist as a verb back in Middle Dutch, but nowadays in the standard language only the pejorative noun kal remains (silly babbling), as well as the derived verb raaskallen (delirious driveling). According to the 1917 entry in the WNT (http://gtb.inl.nl/iWDB/search?actie=article&wdb=WNT&id=M029681&lemmodern=kallen) the verb kallen still exists regionally in the positive/neutral sense (of speaking/talking), which is still true in modern-day Flanders in 2017. The Middle Dutch dictionary doesn't list any sense of "naming", only speaking, notifying, telling, uttering and babbling.

Note that I'm using Flanders in the more historical/linguistic meaning, referring to the  County of Flanders (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_of_Flanders) (or the present-day provinces of West and East Flanders). Here in Antwerp the Antwerpish/Brabantic equivalent is klappen. Maybe it has something to do with the clapping motion of a jaw while talking. Standard Dutch has spreken (cf. German sprechen) and praten. Funnily enough, the English verb prate/prattle has taken on the same pejorative meaning of excessive babbling as kallen has in Dutch.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2017-05-19, 14:30:51
You got känna, to know? It has dropped out English, except Scottish ken. 
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Frenzie on 2017-05-19, 15:48:11
Yes, kennen is regular Dutch (and German). We have the distinction between kennen and weten (German wissen), absent from English. Same as French connaitre and savoir.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: ersi on 2017-05-19, 15:50:45
Sent.
Queued up on the e-reader. Thanks :up:

Edit: What are you guys talking about? Have you considered the word snacka? And it doesn't mean to have a snack, even though "ha litet snack" is definitely a thing.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2017-05-19, 17:46:11
Words for speaking or talking seem well shared among the Germanic languages, but vary widely in their connotations.

English tale or talk, Dutch taal, Swedish tal(a), Norwegian tale seem connected with telling a story or holding a speech

Spreken, sprechen, speak, seems connected with speaking, we don't have much in Scandinavian, but we have the noun språk/sprog (language).  

English say, German sagen, Dutch zaggen, Swedish säga, Danish sige, Norwegian si seems to mean utter.

Dutch praten, English prate, Swedish prata, Dan/Norw prate seems to informal talk and Low German origin

Swedish snacka, Norwegian snakke, have a conversation, seems to come from Dutch (snappy) remark, and so does English snack.


Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Frenzie on 2017-05-19, 18:57:32
English say, German sagen, Dutch zaggen, Swedish säga, Danish sige, Norwegian si seems to mean utter.
That's zeggen in Dutch. :P

Swedish snacka, Norwegian snakke, have a conversation, seems to come from Dutch (snappy) remark, and so does English snack.
Huh, I don't recall having come across that while reading Middle Dutch texts. Here (http://gtb.inl.nl/iWDB/search?actie=article&wdb=MNW&id=52878)'s the entry in the Middle Dutch dictionary. In Modern Dutch snakken means something like to crave or to desire intently, e.g., Romeo snakt naar Julia. I suppose you could also translate that as "Romeo has an appetite for Juliette" if you wish to stick closer to the English meaning of snack. The Middle Dutch dictionary says that snakken and snappen are practically the same word in etymology and meaning.

According to the book Verholen verwanten (hidden relatives, i.e., cognates that aren't obvious) that I acquired recently, etymologically snatch is the same verb as snakken. The Random House Dictionary supports this: "1175-1225; Middle English snacche (noun), snacchen (v.) < ?; cognate with Middle Dutch snacken."

Many of the hidden relatives aren't particularly hidden if you have some basic linguistic knowledge of English/Germanic sound changes as well as Middle Dutch and Middle English, but the fact that given the time I could also have compiled the book shouldn't be taken as disparagement. It's a fun little reference work that primarily combines the knowledge of the Van Dale etymological dictionary and the OED, but many others as well.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2017-05-22, 08:18:25
Kind of in that vein, the 21st century architecture of Google Translate. It translates (https://translate.google.com/?source=osdd#auto/en/Die%20volkswirtschaftslehre%20(auch%20National%C3%B6konomie%2C%20Wirtschaftliche%20Staatswissenschaften%2C%20oder%20Sozial%C3%B6konomie%2C%20kurz%20VWL)%20ist%20ein%20Teilgebiet%20der%20Wirtschaftswissenschaft) 
Quote
Die volkswirtschaftslehre (auch Nationalökonomie, Wirtschaftliche Staatswissenschaften, oder Sozialökonomie, kurz VWL) ist ein Teilgebiet der Wirtschaftswissenschaft
into 
Quote
The economics of economics (including economics, economics, economics, economics) is a part of economics
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Frenzie on 2017-05-22, 11:04:28
 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

To be fair, that is essentially what it says even if it is stylistically awkward. Volkswirtschaftslehre means something like "common economics" or "common science [or teachings] of economics"[1] and the rest is nothing but synonyms (national economics, political economics, social economics) that all mean economics affecting society in the broader sense. For most intents and purposes you'd just call that economics. In many contexts that would either be a very good or quite simply the best translation.

However, you confused Google Translate by typoing Volkswirtschaftslehre. In German nouns are capitalized. Fixing it up seems to improve the translation ever so slightly.

Quote
Die Volkswirtschaftslehre (auch Nationalökonomie, Wirtschaftliche Staatswissenschaften, oder Sozialökonomie, kurz VWL) ist ein Teilgebiet der Wirtschaftswissenschaft.

Quote
The economics of economics (including economics, economics, economics, social economics, economics) is a sub-area of economics.
Not economics of economics, obviously.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: ersi on 2017-05-23, 05:06:47
To be fair, that is essentially what it says even if it is stylistically awkward. Volkswirtschaftslehre means something like "common economics" or "common science [or teachings] of economics" and the rest is nothing but synonyms...
When you say plain "economics", you are not saying much, not distinguishing anything, such as, say, microeconomics (economics of a single entreprise) from macroeconomics. In contrast, Volkswirtschaftslehre, Nationalökonomie etc. is rather specific. It's taking stock of the economy of a country, i.e. aiming at a sensible definition and calculation of GDP. "Volks" or "National" etc. may look like poor words for "of a country" but that's the meaning.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Frenzie on 2017-05-23, 08:48:05
When you say plain "economics", you are not saying much, not distinguishing anything, such as, say, microeconomics (economics of a single entreprise) from macroeconomics.
@krake can correct me if I'm wrong, but indeed you aren't. With those German words you're talking about the whole of economic theory (micro, macro, econometrics, international/political, institutional). Or in English, just plain old economics. The other branch of economics is something like business economics or applied economics and in German this distinction happens to be made more systematically. But being more precise (albeit not in the way you'd think) doesn't necessarily make for a good translation. It can just as easily be awkward and pedantic.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: ersi on 2017-05-23, 09:09:23
Quote
Die Volkswirtschaftslehre (auch Nationalökonomie, Wirtschaftliche Staatswissenschaften, oder Sozialökonomie, kurz VWL) ist ein Teilgebiet der Wirtschaftswissenschaft.
Isn't it directly deducible here that

- Wirtschaft = economy
- Wirtschaftswissenschaft = economics = science about economy
- Volkswirtschaftslehre is something more specified compared to Wirtschaftswissenschaft because the former is (said to be) the subset of the latter, not the other way round

???

Plus it so happens that the terminology in Estonian is as crappy as in German because German was the role model for the terminology. When talking about a country's economy (i.e. aspects of GDP), the scientists say a word that translates like "people's householding" which is plain stupid. It can, with some stretch, be understood when talking about one's own country, but not when talking about some other country.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: krake on 2017-05-23, 10:13:34
Non Germans might get confused by compound nouns and their exact contextual meaning.
However compound nouns can give more granulated forms of a term. ;)

Wirtschaftslehre (Wirtschaft = economy + Lehre = study) - economics/business studies
Volkswirtschafslehre (Volk = nation + Wirtschaft = economy + Lehre = science/study) - the same as the above but related to a country

A country's economy = Volkswirtschaft (Volk + Wirtschaft)
GDP = BIP (abreviation for Bruttoinlandsprodukt which is another compound noun: Brutto = gross + Inland = domestic + Produkt = product)
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Frenzie on 2017-05-23, 10:40:12
- Volkswirtschaftslehre is something more specified compared to Wirtschaftswissenschaft because the former is (said to be) the subset of the latter, not the other way round
It's a subset of sorts but I think it would be more accurate to call it the core of economics. Hence why I calqued it as common economics (from Dutch algemene economie): the theoretical common overlapping framework of economics. In Dutch and English that's what you mean when you say "economics" without any further specification (as distinct from, e.g., business economics, which is more or less the Dutch/German way of saying applied economics[1]).

The term economics replaced "political economy," as in the study of the economies of political entities, which includes but is not limited to nation states. In German the term political/national economy was replaced by Volkswirtschaftslehre in the Weimar Republic. I suspect that both you and @krake are basically confused by English here, not by German.

@krake Economics doesn't include business studies in that way in English insofar as English even has our kind of business studies at all. What you see in this explanation of a Bachelor of Economics (Bachelor Volkswirtschaftslehre) is what "economics" means in English:
Quote from: http://www.wiso.unibe.ch/studium/studienprogramme/bachelor_volkswirtschaftslehre/index_ger.html
Die Volkswirtschaftslehre beschäftigt sich mit der Frage, wie die Gesellschaft mit ihren knappen Ressourcen umgeht. Zunächst werden die Entscheidungen der einzelnen Wirtschaftseinheiten, d.h. der Haushalte und der Unternehmen analysiert. In einem nächsten Schritt wird untersucht, wie diese Vielzahl von Entscheidungen miteinander koordiniert wird und ob das Ergebnis aus gesamtwirtschaftlicher Sicht wünschenswert ist. Schliesslich werden die sich daraus ergebenden wirtschaftspolitischen Massnahmen, insbesondere im Hinblick auf Innovation, Wachstum, Arbeitslosigkeit und Inflation, untersucht.

Auf Grund der breit gefächerten Ausbildung gehören die Volkswirte eher zu den Generalisten unter den Studienabgänger/innen. Ihre Beschäftigungssituation erweist sich als überdurchschnittlich gut. Der Übergang vom Studium zum Beruf verläuft in der Regel reibungslos. Der Anteil der Arbeitsuchenden mit einem Abschluss in Wirtschaftswissenschaften liegt traditionsgemäss weit unter dem der Stellensuchenden anderer Studienrichtungen.
Wikipedia would have you believe it's "business administration" but Flemish universities tell me it's much more theoretically inclined than the Anglo-Saxon semi-equivalent.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: krake on 2017-05-23, 12:06:34
In German the term political/national economy was replaced by Volkswirtschaftslehre in the Weimar Republic.
Instead of "Volkswirtschaft" you can also say "Nationalökonomie" (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswirtschaftslehre). It means the same, even today. :)
"Volkswirtschaftslehre" always relates to a "Volkswirtschaft". E.g. die deutsche Volkswirtschaft, die chinesische Volkswirtschaft, ... or to "Volkswirtschaften" (verschiedener Staaten wie die der USA oder China).

@krake Economics doesn't include business studies in that way in English insofar as English even has our kind of business studies at all. What you see in this explanation of a Bachelor of Economics (Bachelor Volkswirtschaftslehre) is what "economics" means in English:
http://www.wiso.unibe.ch/studium/studienprogramme/bachelor_volkswirtschaftslehre/index_ger.html
If "economics" is the English term for the German "Volkswirtschaftslehre", so be it. Wonder then if there is an English term for "Wirtschaftslehre"?
Keep in mind that "Volkswirtschaftslehre" and "Wirtschaftslehre" doesn't mean the same in German.
It seems that in English there is no appropiate term delimiting the two. Don't blame me for it. :)
I was only trying to translate the different German terms for better understanding.

After all it seems that GoogleTranslate gives the best translation considering the available options in English for German terms. :lol:
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: ersi on 2017-05-23, 13:01:20
I suspect that both you and @krake are basically confused by English here, not by German.
I'd say that English manages to be even more confusing in this case than German.

German compounding is sane enough in this specific case, even though "Volks-" is the wrong word for the purpose for which it's being employed and direct translation from German to Estonian (which happens to be how this term got into Estonian universities) makes it worse, but be that as it may, "political economy" is worse than that and "common economics" is just as good as "economics" with nothing to specify it.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Frenzie on 2017-05-23, 16:20:42
Instead of "Volkswirtschaft" you can also say "Nationalökonomie" (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswirtschaftslehre). It means the same, even today.  :)
"Volkswirtschaftslehre" always relates to a "Volkswirtschaft". E.g. die deutsche Volkswirtschaft, die chinesische Volkswirtschaft, ... or to "Volkswirtschaften" (verschiedener Staaten wie die der USA oder China).
In that case my understanding could be slightly wrong, but the Wikipedia page you linked doesn't seem to disagree with my understanding of the matter.

According to Dutch Wikipedia "economics" can be roughly divided into:

  • economics (in the English meaning, i.e., the common core of economics which includes micro, macro, econometrics, etc., all the stuff the German Wikipedia page for Volkswirtschaftslehre also speaks of)
  • business economics
  • fiscal economics
  • commercial economics

In English the latter three would be subsets of applied economics. Actually I'm not sure that they aren't in Dutch. In any case economics typically means the common core of economics and it's not really used as as superset together with applied economics. Neither Dutch nor English systematically distinguish between the science of economics in a wider sense and the common core of economics, but in English I'm not even sure if there really is a standard way to refer to this distinction.

German Wikipedia seems to go by a very similar distinction as Dutch, namely "Im deutschen Sprachraum wird die Wirtschaftswissenschaft üblicherweise in die Bereiche Betriebswirtschaftslehre (BWL) und Volkswirtschaftslehre (VWL, Nationalökonomie) unterteilt."

Quote from: ersi
"common economics" is just as good as "economics" with nothing to specify it.
That's Dutch, not English. Sorry if I caused any confusion. :) But it does refer to the same distinction as in German as far as I can tell. It might seem odd to say that common economics is not systematically distinguished from economics, but I'd say it's really no different than noting that the common housefly is not normally distinguished from the (house)fly. The word "common" basically just signifies that which we normally mean when we say x, which can be distinguished from the broader concept or category of super-x. It does make translation harder because that which Dutch or English speakers commonly mean by "economics" is not the same as German speakers. Too bad for the machines. :P
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: ersi on 2017-05-24, 04:45:27
The word "common" basically just signifies that which we normally mean when we say x, which can be distinguished from the broader concept or category of super-x. It does make translation harder because that which Dutch or English speakers commonly mean by "economics" is not the same as German speakers. Too bad for the machines. :P
That's not how it works in science. In science you build terminology, concepts that relate to each other in fixed ways, specifically in the way scientists think reality works.

In this case, the distinction is economics broadly considered and then a subset of it. It's like in biology they give names to species. Names of species always have two parts. Bigger groups, such as families, have one part. Often a name of the species consists of "common" + family but the function of the compound is exactly the same no matter what stood there instead of "common".

To clarify the terms for the whole science (to other scientists), some people build ontologies. Biologists believe their taxonomy describes real-life ontology. Economists also arrange their terminology so as to make it an into an ontology. Yes, I have seen them do it. Funny when they try it with financial terms.

In that sort of system, something like "common economics" would not be that which people commonly mean when they speak about it. It would be about a specific spot in the ontology. When they fail to put "common" before it, it would be elsewhere in the ontology and the scientist would go nuts.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Frenzie on 2017-05-24, 07:37:34
Fine, perhaps I should've translated it as general economics then -- which I just noticed is also what the University of Ghent does: https://www.ugent.be/eb/algemene-economie/en You can see what I illustrated there as well: "The department of General Economics is one of the nine departments in the Faculty of Economics and Business Administration of Ghent University." But such words like common or general do tend to reflect a honed definition of the "regular" meaning -- the biggest catch being that it might be the 19th century meaning while the language has otherwise moved on.

The nine departments are the following:

Quote
    General Economics
    Financial Economics
    Social Economics
    Accounting, Corporate Finance and Taxation
    Marketing
    Business Informatics and Operations Management
    Innovation, Entrepreneurship and Service Management
    Public Governance, Management and Finance
    Human Resource Management and Organizational Behaviour

Science may be international, but that doesn't mean it's entirely homogenized. In the English-speaking world those two generally just aren't grouped together like that. You've got the social behavioral science of economics and then you've got this separate commerce and business administration thing of which I'm not really sure how it's classified. Perhaps it's more vocational than the arts & sciences, even if it's university-level.

But anyway, we were talking about translation. I contended that a distinction commonly made by regular speakers of German often shouldn't be explicitly kept in English (or Dutch) unless it's important for some reason. Just like how you wouldn't constantly translate shade as shadow of a tree, shadow of a building, etc. unless it held some relevance. I would imagine that in a scientific text for shadeologists, it probably does. If you think all distinctions should be kept, then you're either a bad translator or a translator in a very specific niche. ;)
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: ersi on 2017-05-24, 08:15:11
But such words like common or general do tend to reflect a honed definition of the "regular" meaning -- the biggest catch being that it might be the 19th century meaning while the language has otherwise moved on.
Language has moved on or life in general has moved on. Or the guy who authoritatively fixed the meaning in the 19th century did not make it relevant to life in the first place.

Science may be international, but that doesn't mean it's entirely homogenized. In the English-speaking world those two generally just aren't grouped together like that. You've got the social behavioral science of economics and then you've got this separate commerce and business administration thing of which I'm not really sure how it's classified. Perhaps it's more vocational than the arts & sciences, even if it's university-level.
Yes, the obvious problem with building ontologies from umbrella concepts is the failure to reflect cross-disciplinary stuff. A true ontology goes by distinctions that cannot be crossed.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Belfrager on 2017-05-24, 23:39:10
Economics are not a science and even less commerce, business or administration.
And ontology belongs to the realm of pure philosophy - the knowledge of the Being, linguistics being a side a part sub-discipline.

What a confusion goes on those minds, the "virtues" of modern education for the youngsters.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2017-11-12, 11:56:07
New king, new city. Now Neom, "endless potential"

https://youtu.be/N53DzL3_BHA

Saudi Arabia's $500 Billion Fantasy of a Utopian Megacity (https://www.citylab.com/design/2017/11/saudi-arabias-latest-planned-city-costs-500-billion-and-is-insanely-huge/544748/)

Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Belfrager on 2017-11-21, 23:48:20
Preparing the end of oil...
Hang them.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2018-02-10, 11:45:23
https://youtu.be/mQsuny2VXnM
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Frenzie on 2018-02-10, 15:38:21
"As a young European architect, I always dreamed of living in big cities."

Not me. The nice thing about big cities is that you have things like a dedicated spice store; not its big cityness (i.e., lack of greenery).

I wonder how long those container houses take to build. (Didn't watch the full 25 minutes; perhaps they mentioned something about it.)
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2018-02-10, 16:10:33
I liked the way he claimed to have built it, putting the house-in-construction on a trailer and driving it from the lots of one subcontractor to the next, there were around a hundred of them. That's obviously a slow, if cheap and interesting, mode of construction.

I don't know it would take future owners to construct such a house if IKEA made flatpacks of them, still quite some time I would imagine. A more likely scenario would be robotic pre-assembly.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Belfrager on 2018-03-25, 22:21:06
A more likely scenario would be robotic pre-assembly.
When that happens, luxury houses will be made of stone, pure craftsmanship.
As houses have always been made this part of the globe.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2018-03-26, 14:36:10
I think we are getting close to the point where stone again is a cost-efficient building material. The problem with stone is not the material availability or cost, there are plenty stones, but that it is a less flexible material, and the labour cost is humongous.  Thus the prevalence of painted concrete, particularly for cheaper buildings.

Computer-cut stone in robot assembly could make up for these shortcomings.
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: jax on 2018-07-28, 06:54:04
Another year, another series. BBC2 has one called The World's Most Extraordinary Homes. The first series had settings (Mountain, Forest, Coast, Underground). The second is organised by country. Mostly non-urban homes (often extremely much so), so that should please some here. 

Portugal
https://youtu.be/zZaxtn9XDRk

Switzerland

Japan
https://youtu.be/1qQ0O3_Ik8s

USA (all Florida)
https://youtu.be/GNtqCyIqRGU

Spain and India 

Norway
https://youtu.be/qTdlcWS-N0g

Israel
https://youtu.be/V4OMLNVoSxs
Title: Re: 21st century architecture
Post by: Belfrager on 2018-07-28, 23:39:24
After the (empty) houses of some millionaires that Jax loves, I suggest:
Living Big in a Tiny House (https://www.youtube.com/user/livingbigtinyhouse)
(The series is too much American/British style....)