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Topic: Keeping an eye on Opera (Read 151766 times)

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Keeping an eye on Opera
Many are giving up Opera due to the shortcomings of the present state of the so-called "Opera Next"

This thread is to inform us on how the Opera Browser develops.

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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #175
Josh, what are you using? From your description, I'm guessing you're using a 56K modem and an old browser of unknown descriptions. Vivaldi isn't that slow.
It IS slow.
Chrome. But that page didn't take all that time to load till your post
Hallvord
Frans, who's the guy?

  • Frenzie
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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #176
All that's needed is a bottleneck somewhere along the way to Russia. At times I've tried to watch videos from China (mostly when linked by jax), only to find them loading at 30kB/s or less. That never happens when I try to view something from Europe or America.

That being said, Vivaldi actually took something like 6 seconds to load the page I linked a few hours ago, while now it loads within two seconds.

Frans, who's the guy?

A former Opera employee. He now works for Mozilla.

http://www.whatcouldbewrong.com/
http://hallvors.wordpress.com/

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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #177
...while now it loads within two seconds.
It's just been cached.
Yo! our whole conversation is being perlustrated by KGB - didn't you know? That's why the delays!

  • j7n
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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #178
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  • Last Edit: 2014-04-24, 05:17:14 by j7n

  • Frenzie
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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #179
It's just been cached.

No, I mean a fresh load. Back a few hours ago the site gave me something like 30-50kB/s, while now it gives me at least 100kB/s.

SSL negotiation was also shown on the graphs posted by Frenzie earlier.

Graphs? I don't recall doing that? :P

My ping to Vivaldi is ±28ms (±25ms for fransdejonge.com), but responses seem to take longer than that. Of course, the Vivaldi site says its creation time is 200ms, while mine here says it's more like 20-30ms.

The site is faster in Opium.

Slightly; V8 deals somewhat better with the overuse of JS. Most of it still comes down to how long it takes for the data to get to me, which as you said isn't made any faster by SSL.

There's either a bottleneck to the east or Josh is exaggerating, but it's definitely an order of magnitude slower than here.

  • j7n
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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #180
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  • Last Edit: 2014-04-24, 05:17:08 by j7n

  • Frenzie
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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #181
Oh, I thought you meant here. :)

Yeah, the same thing still applies. On this site, we've got something like 10-20kB of content* to 100-300kB of other stuff,** but since most of that is images, it doesn't really slow down page loading. On Vivaldi there is in fact over 300kB of JS and over 100kB of CSS, ergo it does affect rendering time quite a bit--especially when a script is delayed.

* I use the word content somewhat loosely.
** Depends a bit on the amount of people (i.e. avatars), smilies, images...

  • mjmsprt40
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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #182
It's the funniest thing, but--- even though on the surface Vivaldi may seem to have more to offer, I don't feel "safe" about it. The idea that it's being run by Opera folks leaves me wanting to take my probing stick and bang extra hard on the ice before putting my weight on it. I actually feel "safer" here even though I know there isn't as much to support it-- we're on one guy's site and he's having to take space from his blog to make room for the forums-- but it still "feels" safer than Vivaldi does right now.

I know the feeling of space constraint-- having opened a blog on Wordpress.com, I have just over 3 gigabytes available for storage. That's not as much as you might think if you post a lot of photo and video content, it wouldn't take long to run out of room. Of course Wordpress offers you the option of buying more space with their premium package, and it might be worth considering later. Right now, the point is that having a "free" site can really make things tight when you stop to think of how little 2 or 3 gigabytes really is today. (Great Scott-- was it only a decade ago that only a James Bond villain would have any use for 2 gigabytes of space???)
What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!

  • j7n
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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #183
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  • Last Edit: 2014-04-24, 05:17:01 by j7n

  • ersi
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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #184

It's the funniest thing, but--- even though on the surface Vivaldi may seem to have more to offer, I don't feel "safe" about it. The idea that it's being run by Opera folks leaves me wanting to take my probing stick and bang extra hard on the ice before putting my weight on it. I actually feel "safer" here even though I know there isn't as much to support it-- we're on one guy's site and he's having to take space from his blog to make room for the forums-- but it still "feels" safer than Vivaldi does right now.

Even though I don't know exactly what you mean by "safer", I share the sentiment vaguely. Despite the generous offer of email and blogs at Vivaldi.net, the general atmosphere there makes me wary. A quickly increasing number of random people who contribute to chatter and noise, not discussion. The forums seem to lack focus and soul. People may use it to socialise in some isolated clubs or couples, rather than forums and blogs.

The effect that Vivaldi.net is having is mixed. It takes some energy out of Opera ASA's new forums by providing the social tools that Opera ASA is ditching. Maybe they hoped to provide a refugee haven (which I would like), but some of the prominent current employees and fanbois there extinguish this mood, while the bulk membership at Vivaldi.net are just general cosmic (as in Cosmo) static.

Here we have the true refugee atmosphere. There it's another FB, only accidentally and marginally related to Opera, and not really to old Opera. FB and Cosmo are not safe either to the body or to the mind. Honestly, I would not like the user count here to explode too fast. I would not like new users to be recruited from odd places. This place could lose its character. Then again, in order to have any character at all, the core users should be active. Where's Jimbro this year? Vacationing from retirement?

Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #185

From my perspective, that argument doesn't really work. He stepped down as CEO in 2010, and in 2011, this is how he resigned from Opera completely (according to Wikipedia):

Quote from: Jon
Dear All,

It is with a heavy heart that I send this message. Next week will be my last at Opera. It has become clear that The Board, Management and I do not share the same values and we do not have the same opinions on how to keep evolving Opera. As a result I have come to an agreement with the Board to end my time at Opera. I feel the Board and Management is more quarterly focused than me. I have always worked to build the company for the future. I believe the foundation we have is very solid to build further upon.

I do believe strongly in Opera as a company, and in all of you working here. Our products actually make a difference for a lot of people in the world, and I wish you all the best of luck moving forward. I will be following the company closely and rooting for you all.

Yours truly, Jon.


These differences of opinion with the board seem to point to the difference between the Opera that I liked and the Opera that made an increasing amount of decisions I don't much understand or care for--including the killing of My Opera. I suspect my sentiment might be shared by many (My) Opera users.

Also note that e.g. Hallvord left Opera because he already knew about the decision to kill My Opera.


I think you missed my point.

I was suggesting that we accentuate the positives ............ That DnD users aren't subject to the same Corporate pitfalls & Corporate abuse in DnD, because DnD is run in the best interests of the Users, by the users, not a CEOish type.

What this particular individual CEO may have or not have done, or how he personally felt has nothing to do with my point(s).

User run
= Good & wholesome. 

CEOish Corporate run = Bad, Disgusting, & totally prone to Corruption. 

Capice?
  • Last Edit: 2014-01-02, 18:39:27 by SmileyFaze

Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #186
All this fuss about speed......as if average user gives a RRA (Royal Rats Ass) on whether a page takes 1.7 seconds to load or 2.9 seconds to load!?

Speed rates way lower on the scale of things potential users will consider when deciding on where they will make their new home........usability & content, along with quality of companionship are the paramount issues average users look for ........ not speed.....

Just ask MJM.....he's average.             

Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #187
Superbird, SRWare Iron, Sleipnir 5, Torch Browser, Yandex Browser, Comodo Dragon, CoolNovo, Titan Browser, Epic Browser, Chrome

I still think that Opera is going to get lost in the plethora of Chromium/Blink based browsers. They will have to forgo the desktop/laptop/tablet market or settle for a market share much smaller than they had with Opera 12. They have not distinguished the "new" Opera Browser as a superior product in any category. Even with almost 20 years of browser building experience, their development seems slow.
Industrial Engineer, Restauranteur, Graphic Designer, Shareware Author and Genealogist.  Computer user since 1977.
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  • Frenzie
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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #188
Those first two are more or less Chromium. Sleipnir isn't available on Linux--of course, neither is Chropera--but a lot more interesting in principle. However, it's definitely true that there's already an awful lot of Chromium clones out there.

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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #189
"A lot of" is a plural animal - with countable nouns, I mean.

  • Frenzie
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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #190
In more formal language, sure. But if I were writing more formally I'd also use "many" or something more precise instead of "a lot."

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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #191
 Instead of "a what?"?

  • Frenzie
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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #192

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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #193
Punk.

Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #194
However, it's definitely true that there's already an awful lot of Chromium clones out there.

Hrmmm, I think your grammar might be off ;)

Try " It's definitely true that there's already a lot  of  awful Chromium clones out there."

  • Frenzie
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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #195
Sure, I'll accept that one :P

Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #196
Quote from: Daniel Aleksandersen
Why you would ever do an offline installation of a web browser is beyond me

Priceless    :-X

And it would be funny as well if Daniel Aleksandersen wouldn't be Mac product Test Lead in the Desktop Team at Opera's headquarters in Oslo.

BTW, finally Opera Blink has introduced another important feature that everybody forgot to ask for. The online installer.
It's aimed for the user base of the Third World, people with modern computers but lousy internet connectivity  ???

  • j7n
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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #197
ׂ
  • Last Edit: 2014-04-24, 04:47:04 by j7n

  • jax
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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #198
All, well most, browser makers have periods where they realise that offline is important. It never lasts long. Developers tend to live in a bubble where they are never offline, and offline functionality and other functionality they don't use like e.g. printing are simply esoteric. Being offline is thus so 1995.

As I said, at least Opera and Firefox, even IE, has had offline as a priority from time to time (Google is abysmal at offline, one reason why using an Android phone can be so frustrating), but the drive has never been sustained.


  • Frenzie
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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #199

Quote from: Daniel Aleksandersen
Why you would ever do an offline installation of a web browser is beyond me

Priceless    :-X

I initially downvoted this comment because I misinterpreted it--quotation marks are important that way.

Gee, sometimes I download stuff while I have an Internet connection so I can work with it later when I have no or a spotty Internet connection. Sometimes I look at HTML files *gasp* on my own computer!

Why you would ever want to do an online installation of any software is beyond me.*

* Not actually true. I quite like the Debian netinstall.