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Topic: Keeping an eye on Opera (Read 111154 times)

  • string
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Keeping an eye on Opera
Many are giving up Opera due to the shortcomings of the present state of the so-called "Opera Next"

This thread is to inform us on how the Opera Browser develops.

  • ersi
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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #75


I include below a complete copy of the thread linked by ersi, since someone at Opera appears to have privatized it. [edit]ersi noticed too.[/edit]


Thanks for the information, this looks bad. :(

I tried to make a joke about it on the forums, but I actually think it's a serious case - again. Some of these alleged autobans just don't smell right. If autoban is really so trigger happy, then why, for example, am I still a member?



Opera 18 took my defaults and won't give them back
Quote from: bcbear86
I found out that when Java was updated, it had an option to install Opera and she didn't uncheck the box.

Did anybody confirm this?

If you have Windows at hand, go ahead and give Java updates a shot.

  • Frenzie
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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #76
However the above is not a mandatory requirement for portable software IMO.

You could argue that I'm talking about transferable, not portable, but I believe any distinction between the two to be completely artificial. This is easy to see when talking about e.g. foobar2000 and Opera, both of which artificially disable functionality related to its transferable aspect just because it happens to be in portable mode. Whether the program is "portable" or "transferable" depends on how I use it at that particular moment.

NB Opera should disable the default browser check in portable mode and it should run as a single-user profile, so I do in fact believe an installer option is appropriate. Although I'm not convinced the default browser check option is ever appropriate by default, but that aside.
Under no circumstances should portable software leave any trace in Windows' registry without user approval. That's my understanding of "portable" at least.

Yes, that is quite correct. My problem is when they take it one step further and remove the possibility for explicitly user-initiated action. There's a reason they come with an "associate a dozen file types and several protocols" button in the first place. On properly written applications you can also select which of the dozen supported filetypes you wish to associate with the application in question.

Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #77



I include below a complete copy of the thread linked by ersi, since someone at Opera appears to have privatized it. [edit]ersi noticed too.[/edit]


Thanks for the information, this looks bad. :(

I tried to make a joke about it on the forums, but I actually think it's a serious case - again. Some of these alleged autobans just don't smell right. If autoban is really so trigger happy, then why, for example, am I still a member?


lol --- maybe they are preaching "liberal mindset" according to some! :p ;)




Opera 18 took my defaults and won't give them back
Quote from: bcbear86
I found out that when Java was updated, it had an option to install Opera and she didn't uncheck the box.

Did anybody confirm this?

If you have Windows at hand, go ahead and give Java updates a shot.


The XP machine which has java is a offline box.
Opera used to be one of the trusted software vendor, now I've to be careful of future I guess! :(

Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #78

If you have Windows at hand, go ahead and give Java updates a shot.

I have Windows at hand but without Java.
I went to Oracles download page and I havn't seen any option in their JRE installer as described by bcbear86.
That's why I asked him to provide the link where his daughter has updated from.
However the whole story is weird because of more than one reason.
- Opera abruptly privatized the thread.
On the other hand
- If Opera indeed uses such scams to propagate their browser, bcbear86 can't be the only person affected.
I couldn't find (as yet) any references to such practices of Opera on the net.

Furthermore bcbear86 claims that Chropera messed up his .torrent file association. Does Chropera have support for torrent?

  • Frenzie
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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #79
Furthermore bcbear86 claims that Chropera messed up his .torrent file association. Does Chropera have support for torrent?

Yeah, that led me to wonder whether it could've been Opera with Java bundled as opposed to vice versa. Then again, how long has it been since that even existed?

Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #80
Although I'm not convinced the default browser check option is ever appropriate by default, but that aside.

It isn't IMO.
Quote from: Frenzie
My problem is when they take it one step further and remove the possibility for explicitly user-initiated action. There's a reason they come with an "associate a dozen file types and several protocols" button in the first place.

I see and agree. However they can't stop the advanced user from making the associations from OS level, leaving their button untouched. As for the average user, he will be glad to have a button he can click on.
Quote from: Frenzie

On properly written applications you can also select which of the dozen supported filetypes you wish to associate with the application in question.

Properly written and honest applications :)

  • j7n
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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #81
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  • Last Edit: 2014-04-24, 05:41:38 by j7n

  • Frenzie
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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #82
Even as an user-initiated action? How would one retake the protocols and htm file associations afterwards?

Just by default.

  • ersi
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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #83
Just a revision of events concerning the mysterious case of bcbear86.

1. Chropera allegedly took over .torrent and other file type associations and the normal restoration methods didn't work.

It's implausible that Chropera did it. However, hijacking of file type associations by various programs happens often enough. I know Windows users who complain often enough that some file types important to them, such as .doc and .pdf, don't open any more. I personally dumped Windows at Vista. When on Vista, I was always able to restore and modify file type associations as I pleased. Am I too advanced user (and others therefore too dumb in comparison) or has some freaky development occurred somewhere when moving to 7 and 8?

2. "When Java was updated, it had an option to install Opera and she [daughter] didn't uncheck the box."

That Chropera comes bundled with some Java update like Chrome is plausible, because Opera ASA is in bed with Google now. This cannot be too widely known yet because Chropera is a fresh product. And even when known, this practice cannot be too widely and publicly denounced, because Ask toolbar and Chrome and whatnot have also not been too widely denounced for the same practices. People seem to think that this sneakiness (foistware) is normal.

On the other hand, given that there's some daughter (n00b dumbuser) involved in action, implies that nothing in this report can be taken too literally. The author of the posts may not be much more advanced than the daughter. Maybe the author is the daughter herself or it's just the family cat typing. This is roughly the same point as my comments on event #1 - It's implausible that Chropera did it, even though file type associations get hijacked on Windows often enough.

3. The author of the thread gets banned and the thread disappears from the orbit.

This is like the fifth or sixth time I see it happen in the course of maybe three years. By now it takes a whole lotta convincing to make me believe it's a mere coincidence or a pure accident.

P.S. For some light reading, here's the article where I got the term "foistware" from http://www.zdnet.com/a-close-look-at-how-oracle-installs-deceptive-software-with-java-updates-7000010038/

  • Frenzie
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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #84
Regarding your point 1, I always wonder how a user can become more advanced if everything's hidden. Windows Vista and up hide the menu bar, so the file associations feature might be hard to find.

  • j7n
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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #85
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  • Last Edit: 2014-04-24, 05:41:30 by j7n

  • Frenzie
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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #86
"I wouldn't dismiss software getting downloaded along with Java"

Nor with Flash. Happens all the time. I tried Safari around the same time I tried Steam and it pulled iTunes along with a Safari update. #$%$ Apple. As if it weren't enough that their products lack as much nativeness as can be.

Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #87

Regarding your point 1, I always wonder how a user can become more advanced if everything's hidden.


You hit the nail. That's also the main reason for designing software to become more and more obscure.
The dumbing down process is then advertised as innovation and modern design.
No wonder that average users are more clueless today as they were 15 years ago.
The more clueless the user the better you can squeeze him.
On the other side, most users simply don't care. All they want is to be connected to the internet. So dumbing down is an easy game.


I decided to try the latest Flash player to see if there was a bundled browser, and if it could be unchecked.


F**k Adobe. I never use their Flash installer. I only grab the browser plugin.

  • mjmsprt40
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  • undocumented space alien
Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #88
I had the joy of downloading Flash recently, it was needed to make You-Tube work-- or at least that particular video, can't be sure. It tried a stealth McAfee download, I caught it and stopped it, then downloaded Flash by itself.

Years back, I used to use McAfee, eventually I dumped it in favor of AVG because McAfee was a resource hog. Now, the stealth download attempt puts McAfee on my permanently banned list because no antivirus suite that has to be installed by foistware is to be trusted.
What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!

  • Frenzie
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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #89
On the other side, most users simply don't care. All they want is to be connected to the internet. So dumbing down is an easy game.

I truly don't comprehend it. There are apparently people out there who don't care that their computer doesn't do exactly what they want. Or people who don't care that they have to click twice as much to reach a function even though a computer's purpose is increasing efficiency. Simply put, the computer serves me, not I the computer. (By extension, my data belongs to me, not to some server in the great blue yonder.)

Actually this is part of the reason that Windows drove me away. Not only malware (foistware, whatever) like Flash and Java, but even Windows itself doing all manner of things behind my back. Sure, you can tame it, disable automatic updates or set it to download only, etc. but I think the whole design philosophy breathes it. There's also stuff like sticky keys (whatever that is) annoying me whenever I hold the shift key for a few seconds on a computer that isn't mine. The good guys at Microsoft during the development of Vista and I guess the good guys at Opera lost or were losing during the development of Opera 11ish. Where by good guys I mean those who care about the user in such matters as functionality, backwards compatibility, and simply not forcing their own vision as The Right Way™.

Years back, I used to use McAfee, eventually I dumped it in favor of AVG because McAfee was a resource hog. Now, the stealth download attempt puts McAfee on my permanently banned list because no antivirus suite that has to be installed by foistware is to be trusted.

Completely agreed. Such shady practices are the definition of malware as far as I'm concerned.

Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #90


That's a severe defect of the "portable" philosophy. A truly portable program would allow me to lift it up, plant it wherever I like, and then allow me to use its "make this the default for..." function (if available). Instead "portable" programs tend to gray that out, so you have to use workarounds.

It depends on how one defines "portable".
The interpretation I grew up with: All files in one Folder/subfolder(s) which you can put wherever you want and no traces in Windows' registry.
Therefore "portable" is not the recommended option for average users.
Advanced users will be able to make the file associations they want on their own.

I agree that the ideal way is to make options for file associations even in portable software, associations the user can also easily delete if he wants to.
However the above is not a mandatory requirement for portable software IMO.

Under no circumstances should portable software leave any trace in Windows' registry without user approval. That's my understanding of "portable" at least.
As an example, none of Mark Russinovich's utilities is portable even though you don't have to run an installer.



Exactly.

Nothing permanently goes into, or out of, the Registry.

There is always activity on the 'host' computer -- cache & temp files -- but that's perfectly normal.

I couple my 'travel' portable usage (when I key-chain my software) with Disk Cleaner Portable, & Clear All History Portable.  I use both to ensure that when I finish my session I clean all traces of usage, not for privacy reasons -- it's nice to know there's nothing personal left on the host computer that can be casually discovered though -- but I use it out of respect for the owner of the 'host' computer, returning/freeing any lost space on their hard drive(s) related to my usage.

Disk Cleaner is free, & Clear All History is only about $25, but if installed on a USB the 15 day 'Trial Period' can be defeated by simply deleting it & reinstalling it.
Unless yer a Scott, I suggest you spring for the software & own it outright. Seriously, the cost is only 'tip money'!

  • j7n
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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #91
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  • Last Edit: 2014-04-24, 05:41:21 by j7n

Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #92

I truly don't comprehend it. There are apparently people out there who don't care that their computer doesn't do exactly what they want. Or people who don't care that they have to click twice as much to reach a function even though a computer's purpose is increasing efficiency. Simply put, the computer serves me, not I the computer. (By extension, my data belongs to me, not to some server in the great blue yonder.)

Let me give you an example:
There is an app which permits you to make selectively file associations.
What if the user doesn't know which file extension stands for what.
He could of course look them up first and decide afterwards what to associate and what not, according to his needs but he doesn't.
He checks them all to make sure 'everything will work'. Even the fact that he is offered a choice might confuse him.
You may say that I'm exagerating. Take a look at Google Chrome. Does it work for its user base exactly as they want? For sure it does. They can view content with it and that's exactly the only thing they want :)  As I said, dumbing down is an easy game.
Unfortunately with this dumbing down-philosophy even users interested and willing to learn will be affected.



  • Frenzie
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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #93
Heh, Irfanview supports about a hundred different file formats. I wonder if even the author remembers what they all are. :P

Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #94

It takes a bit of searching around the net to get the NPSWF32.dll plugin only, but it's possible. [1], [2]

You might also check number [3]
It's a special one (v.11.8.800.168)  :)
No Flash cookies and .swf content will be saved automatically in your .temp folder.
You just have to change the file name from  .temp to .MP4

Edit:
Content won't be saved on Youtube. They have changed their code since I last checked.
Sorry for the inconvenience ):
You can test here how it was supposed to work.
Those videos are still saved.
On Windows7 the location is: C:\Users\*****\AppData\Local\Temp
You can drag and drop the saved .tmp files direct into SMPlayer (MPlayer) or rename them to .mp4 and open them with the player of your choice.
  • Last Edit: 2013-11-29, 19:00:18 by krake

  • j7n
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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #95
ׂ
  • Last Edit: 2014-04-24, 05:41:12 by j7n

  • Frenzie
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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #96
This might sound a bit harsh, but thanks to Ruari I found out that BS-Harou* is single-handedly pushing Opera 15+ into usable territory using nothing but extensions.

* Note to self, invite him here.

Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #97
Thanks for the link Frenzie.

  • ersi
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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #98
Straight up: I don't like this comment by BS-Harou http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/show.dml/43047152#comment85890822
Quote
With all the DnD that is now going to happen all over Internet, it might be good idea to finally implement "-o-user-select: none " in CSS
I don't like this CSS element (and its variants). I don't like what it does. BS-Harou has been consistent over the years supporting its implementation. You noticed I had a little debate with Pesala recently that involved this element...

PS bcbear86 is unbanned and his thread reopened.

  • Frenzie
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Re: Keeping an eye on Opera
Reply #99
It was present in an earlier version of CSS3, but it was dropped. I'm sure they had good reasons. Then again, I never understood why they chose the box model they did.

In any case, I think this sounds more like a job for Javascript than for CSS. Why shouldn't an event.preventDefault() or two do the trick? It seems to have worked just fine on, say, Google Maps for the past 10 years.

On the other hand, I can see how something like the quote display on this forum could be implemented in pure CSS as opposed to an image with generated, but then the " quotation mark would become selectable. For such decorative elements, user-select:none might be useful. Of course, presently it's decidedly untrustworthy and not useful at all precisely because of the lack of a spec.

Btw, here's another hint that at least some people at Opera like plain-text configuration, just like me: http://dev.opera.com/articles/view/themes-in-opera-18-and-higher