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Will there be...

  • ...more beer?
    5 (100%)
  • ...less beer?
    0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 4

Topic: The world in 2030 (Read 23176 times)

  • jax
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  • Global Moderator
The world in 2030
How do we imagine the world in 2030 to be?

  • Belfrager
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Re: The world in 2030
Reply #175
Trees are a different thing than a forest. Forest is an ecosystem
By the beginning of the twenty century we had in Portugal nine different types of original mediterranean forest, distributed by all over the country. Today, only two small areas still exist as national reserves.

Wood and paper industries destroyed all those original forests and substituted it by trees. Pine for wood and eucalyptus for paper.
The horrific fires that we had last year, killing 110 persons in two days, were a direct consequence of deforestation and plantation of mono species vast areas.

Original forests are much more fire resistant than mono species. The real problem is how to get economic value from forest. That's the way to go not keep destroying a country for the profit of a few large corporations.


A matter of attitude.

  • krake
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Re: The world in 2030
Reply #176
Speaking of Portugal, the country with by far the most wildfires in Europe:
"A government study between 2003 and 2013 found most of the fires are started deliberately set or are due to negligence or accidents."

  • ersi
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Re: The world in 2030
Reply #177
Trees don't really need to be planted or managed all that much. They mostly just spring up.
If it's meant as an argument that forestry does not need any management, it does not hold up. Children also largely grow by themselves, but it does not mean they grow up to be responsible citizens without didactically informed raising. And it also does not mean that we don't need any more children than we already have, that we should let exterminators loose on them.

Ecosystem is a balance in the biosphere, of the soil, plants, insects, birds and animals, air and water. Forest is not just about the trees, but about whether they provide a habitat, and whether it's a stable habitat. As the world goes on, evidently less and less people understand this. By 2030, when I am likely dead, there will be nobody to understand this.

  • Frenzie
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  • Administrator
Re: The world in 2030
Reply #178
But I do mean as part of an ecosystem. Only "managed" trees aren't. Trees naturally come last.

  • Frenzie
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  • Administrator
Re: The world in 2030
Reply #179
As the world goes on, evidently less and less people understand this. By 2030, when I am likely dead, there will be nobody to understand this.
On the contrary, this is contemporary forestry and has been for at least two decades. This isn't 1960.

  • ensbb3
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Re: The world in 2030
Reply #180
has been for at least two decades. This isn't 1960

I know wood construction doesn't seem as prevalent in Europe, but as a side note - Post 1980's deforestation was mostly under control or well on its way due to better management. Ecosystem diversity was more of a 90's onward issue. Standard {soft} wood building material nowadays is called SPF. Meaning; spruce, [white] pine and fir trees. All are of similar density however promote a better ecosystem when managed together.   
  • Last Edit: 2018-07-11, 00:43:32 by ensbb3

  • ersi
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Re: The world in 2030
Reply #181
But I do mean as part of an ecosystem. Only "managed" trees aren't. Trees naturally come last.
I spoke about managing forestry, not trees. Trees get by without people just fine, but when foresters are in business, the business has to be managed.

This isn't 1960.
Europe is not the same in every spot. Over there you probably had pirate capitalism in 1960's. Over here it started in 1990, while 1960 was comparatively ecological paradise. And don't get me started on how Western companies behave as soon as they get their hands on something outside the borders of their home country.

  • Frenzie
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  • Administrator
Re: The world in 2030
Reply #182
Over there you probably had pirate capitalism in 1960's. Over here it started in 1990, while 1960 was comparatively ecological paradise.
I don't know if we've ever had that in the way America did and does, but with the economic surge of the '50s and '60s growth was considered more important than ecology.

I understand the Rhine, now a relatively clean river, was mostly devoid of natural life and generally to be avoided by people. Some 15-ish years ago it was on the news that salmon[1] had moved back in -- the ecological cleanse of the '90s had worked. Of course our own Rhine salmon had probably gone extinct. These were (natural) Scottish colonizers.

And don't get me started on how Western companies behave as soon as they get their hands on something outside the borders of their home country.
Indeed. :(
More or less the top of the river ecosystem.

  • Belfrager
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Re: The world in 2030
Reply #183
Speaking of Portugal, the country with by far the most wildfires in Europe:
The country with by far the most higher temperatures.
"A government study between 2003 and 2013 found most of the fires are started deliberately set or are due to negligence or accidents."
No single government ruled between 2003 and 2013. It doesn't exist such study.


A matter of attitude.

  • rjhowie
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Re: The world in 2030
Reply #184
Did say a wee while ago it was shame about Portugal's fire situation. Goodness nearly offered Belfrager a room here!  :D
"Quit you like men:be strong"