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Topic: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?  (Read 24718 times)

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Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Who knows a decent map service on the Web? Except for Google's and alike, I mean.
For example, I wanted to find some physical maps of the UK's regions. One recent guy gave me errors instead of pages...
In one of other threads I shared some www.justmaps.org.  But its helpfulness seems rather limited to finding towns (within countries or otherwise larger regions; it looks simpler than using Google-like zoomables).
So what do you know? ???

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Reply #200
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The indigenous population of California under Spanish rule dropped from 300,000 prior to 1769, to 250,000 in 1834. After Mexico won its independence from Spain, and after the secularization of the coastal missions by the Mexican government in 1834, the indigenous population suffered a much more drastic decrease in population.* The period immediately following the U.S. conquest of California has been characterized by numerous sources as a genocide. Under US sovereignty, after 1848, the Indian population plunged from perhaps 150,000 to 30,000 in 1870 and reached its nadir of 16,000 in 1900.
Lies, damned lies, and statistics! :)
Are those "numerous sources" the same as the main-stream media?
Quote
the numbers of killings of California Indians between 1846 and 1873 and estimated that during this period at least 9,400 to 16,000 California Indians were killed by non-Indians
So: 300,000 to 30,000 and eventually 16,000 by 1900... But 300,000 minus 19,000 still equals 284,000... What's wrong here? (Just Wacky Wiki... I'm used to it.) How did the 300,000 get to 150,000 -- without genocide? And how is it still mentioned without claims of genocide?
Might these U.S. numbers be census numbers, where respondents self-identify? Maybe not so many people wanted to be "Indian"...having been given American citizenship? :)
But I'm pretty sure you'll see that as cultural genocide!
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* Note, please, that numbers are "withheld" from this sentence... One wonders why? The Spanish and Mexicans couldn't count? :) No. They don't count, when it comes to perfidy... European privilege seems to be everywhere lately. But mostly in the U.S. Aren't you ashamed of being "white" yet? Trust me: The time will come when almost everybody will... Obama will hide his face!
(Oops! Did I refer to another thread? :) )
  • Last Edit: 2016-12-04, 11:56:36 by OakdaleFTL
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
No one listens to me as much as I do and even I have my limits...
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman

  • Frenzie
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Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Reply #201
My weakness is that I find these red herrings too interesting, so here goes. I believe the genocide label might obscure the decentralized nature of the affair, although the outcome is comparable. Genocide describes a process as much as an outcome. One of the Mexican states (I forget which one) had a bounty on scalps. That's genocide. California condoned massacres that were committed by smaller groups but didn't stimulate them as such. That's genocidal in nature but I don't think genocide is the right word.

Cultural genocide would be more along the lines of how the Spanish performed their Christianizing.

The number thing would require more research into what Cook wrote. Incidentally, there's even a Wikipedia article on that. It quotes Cook.

Quote from: Cook, Sherburne F. (1976). The Population of the California Indians, 1769-1970. University of California Press, Berkeley, p. 200.
The first (factor) was the food supply... The second factor was disease. ...

A third factor, which strongly intensified the effect of the other two, was the social and physical disruption visited upon the Indian. He was driven from his home by the thousands, starved, beaten, raped, and murdered with impunity. He was not only given no assistance in the struggle against foreign diseases, but was prevented from adopting even the most elementary measures to secure his food, clothing, and shelter. The utter devastation caused by the white man was literally incredible, and not until the population figures are examined does the extent of the havoc become evident.

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Reply #202
The utter devastation caused by the white man was literally incredible
(BTW: Frenzie said no such thing... He quoted someone else. We need either a better quote-function or -Horrors!- to be more careful when we attribute words to others... It's too easy to click a button.)
I've always enjoyed such hyperbole!  Specially when the recounter doesn't know the meaning of the word "literally"... I mean, like, literally, man! :)
(By the same token, the meaning of the word "incredible" is abused by the same author. But that's only one of my bugaboos: Words that shouldn't be given over to Mrs. Malaprop... )

I like the term "havoc" as used and abused: Preconceptions discombobulated! How dare they?! :) But, of course, I'm sure it sounded better in any language other than English -- to those who aren't actually literate in English! (Which, unfortunately, includes a great many Americans... :) )
  • Last Edit: 2016-12-07, 04:41:35 by OakdaleFTL
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
No one listens to me as much as I do and even I have my limits...
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman

  • Frenzie
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Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Reply #203
(BTW: Frenzie said no such thing... He quoted someone else. We need either a better quote-function or -Horrors!- to be more careful when we attribute words to others... It's too easy to click a button.)
Indeed, it's a weakness of the current system. Maybe I'll fix it up one of these days. :P

Back on topic, this site offers interesting weather maps.

https://www.ventusky.com/

  • Belfrager
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Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Reply #204
The utter devastation caused by the white man was literally incredible
I don't know who said it but one thing is sure, just wait for the black man devastation, the yellow man devastation....
A matter of attitude.

  • Frenzie
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Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Reply #205
I don't know about black man devastation, but I think we've had plenty of yellow man devastation. :P

  • Frenzie
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Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Reply #207
Back on topic, this site offers interesting weather maps.

https://www.ventusky.com/
That is interesting and I was able to get weather info for the most important city in the history of mankind .
"What kind of man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter."
― Terry Pratchett, Going Postal

  • Belfrager
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Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Reply #208
That is interesting and I was able to get weather info for the most important city in the history of mankind .
Now I can rest....
A matter of attitude.

  • Frenzie
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Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Reply #209
@jimbro37 might appreciate this map of Dutch settlements in Michigan circa 1880.


  • Belfrager
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Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Reply #210
Dutch settlements in Michigan circa 1880
Gunfight at Noordeloos Corral?  :lol:
A matter of attitude.

  • Frenzie
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Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Reply #211
Northless seems like an odd name for a town regardless. Its namesake is a little village in South Holland.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noordeloos

  • Belfrager
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Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Reply #212
Dutch settlements in Michigan circa 1880
Too much Dutch in America, it explains many things...
A matter of attitude.

  • jax
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Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Reply #213

  • Belfrager
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Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Reply #214
Another imbecile graphic.
No representation for Europe according latitude... is seems that Europe has no representation in the world...
A matter of attitude.

  • jax
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Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Reply #215
You are green-green colour blind?

  • Belfrager
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Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Reply #216
By the contrary, I see very well how Europe's presence in the world it's diminished by using criteria with no importance at all.
Why not make a graphic showing the distibution of continents according kangaroo's presence?
A matter of attitude.

  • jax
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Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Reply #217
The European subcontinent has hardly ever been known for an excess of land.

By population the European peninsula is a little more prominent.




  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Reply #218
How about economic and military influence?
Europe is important, primarily for its failures... The U.S. has been trying to catch up. :( What is the use of having allies, if we can't or won't trust them?

I don't believe any supra-national organization will solve the world's problems. (The UN has proved to be exceedingly inept.) So, it comes back again to the "great powers"...

Have you got a current map for that, jax?
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
No one listens to me as much as I do and even I have my limits...
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman

  • jax
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Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Reply #219

  • Belfrager
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Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Reply #220
Interesting India to have so dense population numbers along the Himalayas, against the typical litoral/interior scenario.
A matter of attitude.

  • jax
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Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Reply #221
 :queen: The population map is pretty much a rainfall (and river) map. Water used to be pretty important.


  • jax
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Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Reply #222

  • Belfrager
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Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Reply #223
Reality was less pretty but much more useful. :)



These are just the main important roads. In the Portuguese area more than 300 different roads exhisted.
A matter of attitude.

  • jax
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Re: Maps-Maps-Maps! ?
Reply #224