This forum is dying, has been since its inception. As are we of course. It has been the case with every forum since Usenet when cut off from its recruitment ground. It will all end in Nazi spam, the ultimate entropy, if it isn't shut down before that. Throwing in our lot with Otter was good and insufficient. We now have three wilting offshoots from the original forum.

• this Otter forum


• the Vivaldi forum


• the Opera forum

The Vivaldi forum was quickly thrown together to link Opera community with future Vivaldi community, and then left at that. Opera Software and its forum is moving further away from the original. Apart from championing different browser variants, we are all losers, and if you just bunch together a number of losers you don't get a winner, you get Yahoo or HP.

Rjhowie is the one among us with the greatest staying power so far, he could stay on after the rest of us have fallen behind. He is our future.

we are all losers

Oh crap! I'm exposed...

I stand by my vision of rjhowie being the one turning the lights off. New place, same scenario.

The "criticism" of the US on this forum is beyond stupid. My own well-reasoned insights into American foibles are of course the exception.

I entirely disagree with that and I will not align with any solution that passes by member's censorship.

There's millions of people always criticizing the US and they are not here. The criticism on the USA  is not the reason of our concerns about the number of members and I will never accept a witch hunt against those who helped to build this forum.

Rjhowie is an asset so much valid for this forum as any of you and that includes me. And I'm not suspect of any ideological sympathy with him.

I'm certain that any American proud of his heritage would recuse such a treatment of favor and protection. Americans are not children to need others to defend them.

Of course jax is just having a good moment of joke, but what I said is to be taken in account.

I agree with pretty well all those sentiments, Bel. There's  no gain in singling out anyone. As I understand the "America Feud" it is overstatement countered by overreaction. I hold with neither.

But I do think that such prolonged and bitter feuds don't entice a new poster partly because he/she is repulsed by it but also because a lot of such things have history and posts cannot be replied when they keep referring back to past inter-forum grievances.

That said a forum would be too bland without some spice, it's  just that things go too far too often.

So let's all cool it a bit.

I want to bring attention to the VR ratio, that is the ratio between the number of views to the number of posts.

I got slightly interested in this in D&D, (not much but slightly). I noticed that many apparently interesting threads had a lowish VR ratio as low as 5 to 7 , the more successful (in terms of frequency of viewing) 10 or 12 upwards. Figures that low indicated that views were mostly from those that posted.

Some very popular threads had a VR ratio of upwards of 70, but they were rare. At that level the viewers were interested in the subject but did not necessarily post.

Those are crude inaccurate statements, and does not take account of double viewing, but interesting to keep in mind if you look at the VR figures for threads. They give an idea on what is happening, and which threads have wider interest. It is quite surprising how large some of the VS ratios are.

That is interesting in terms on which threads, which type of thread, can bring people in.

I mentioned topical posts earlier. If there is a newsworthy event in Lyon, for example a train crash, then a thread on "Train Crash in Lyon, was it terrorism?" may well be found by the flurry of people googling for information on the Train Crash. So topical posts can attract more into DnD.

@Frenzie, random idea, maybe we need some kind of blog platform, to get more users and content for search engines?

That said a forum would be too bland without some spice, it's  just that things go too far too often.

So let's all cool it a bit.

Having Mr. Howie is akin to having a pet alligator. He's prolly gonna out live ya. Will try to sneak up on ya every chance he gets and if he ever gets a hold of ya he's going for blood. Perhaps a disclaimer would help?

I mentioned topical posts earlier. If there is a newsworthy event in Lyon, for example a train crash, then a thread on "Train Crash in Lyon, was it terrorism?" may well be found by the flurry of people googling for information on the Train Crash. So topical posts can attract more into DnD.

Although, to gain membership you'd probably need some original content with that. Just a link to an article may get you a view but not a member.

@Frenzie, random idea, maybe we need some kind of blog platform, to get more users and content for search engines?

I like this idea. I'm afraid it could become a huge headache for our benefactor though. Be interested in his response anyway.

I already have two blogs. Don't do enough with either of them to be worth the bother. I suppose if I kick my Wordpress blog a bit I might get somewhere with it though. The Vivaldi-- is a waste of space.

We should use an old tactic, turn the Forum a restrict and very select Club. Than all the populace wants to get in...

Seriously, it could work. Add to the header "Only by Invitation".

We should use an old tactic, turn the Forum a restrict and very select Club. Than all the populace wants to get in...

Seriously, it could work. Add to the header "Only by Invitation".

How many people would we aim at? Who would invite them? Can spammers invite other spammers?

On a couple of occasions  when I bave thought to invite people, they've said thanks but no thanks. Hence my introspective comments on what is off putting in the forum.

@Frenzie, random idea, maybe we need some kind of blog platform, to get more users and content for search engines?

Unfortunately that could easily be a major headache (e.g. spamblogs) while I'm not quite convinced of the added value compared to any other old blogging service out there. Well, plus there's the time investment.

@Frenzie, sure, but it could be moderated or limited to selected forum members (manually or automatically, based on amount of posts).

The moderation is the headache. The post count idea sounds pretty good, although I still wonder if anyone's actually waiting for it.

Yes, the effort of moderation could be large if such an extension took off; limiting it to Members Blogs would help at first (there might be none,!) But it could grow and a rethink would be necessary.

@Emdek - Hi!  --- Hope things are panning out on your side.

A question; there has not been the take-up of discussion type posters we had hope for across from your Otter Browser Forum. Do you think your lot know they are welcome, indeed wanted, to post? Can you think of anything that can be done on your side to encourage them. I did wonder if a sticky thread asking for interest would help to entice some to take part. I suspect that quite a few read the stuff but don't post.

@Frenzie, sure, but it could be moderated or limited to selected forum members (manually or automatically, based on amount of posts).

The post count criteria is also potentially useful with regard to creating an obstacle to accredited members (reducing ghost/spambot members).

Two birds with one stone.

Don't effort yourselves for a blog platform in my case, I'm not interested in having a blog nor am I interested in reading anyone's else.
.
The only thing that could work it's personal effort, each one to bring a friend as a new member.
It's difficult, friends usually thinks that we are crazy because posting here... 

Maybe I can convince one, just one, but he's way more radical defending what I defend, so be prepared...

Meh, tried that a couple of times. Turns out we are losers.

One kinda stayed.

Not only we. This forum is a pond removed from its old stream of fresh water, there are many such. First we get stagnant, then we start to stink, and finally we'll be overgrown by weed and dry out.

We are not the only ones to smell funny, decay is all around us. At this stage it is not too late to do something about it, we just don't know what.

I don't think there is any independent blog platform that is prospering. The antisocial social media are taking over, the prime maelstrom Facebook. My tagline for Google is The Lesser Evil, all they do is semi-open, while Facebook take as much as they can of human interaction and ingenuity and make it their property. The rest are mostly Facebook or Google wannabes (Twitter is a little more open than Google and at least some of the owners may regret that). Open alternatives haven't been able to establish themselves, traditional ones are succumbing one by one, Usenet, blogs, forums.

That blob of negativity was just to say that our stinky little pool is relatively fresh water, even when drying out. Closed and owned has gradually been replacing open and free (mind you many closed and owned ones have been sucked up as well).  But if we continue as we do, there will not be a we when this forum is twice as old as now.

Most of the things we can do will increase the effort, not the longevity. I count an independent blog platform among them. If we could free human creativity first then recruiting more people to this forum should be easier.

@Emdek - Hi!  --- Hope things are panning out on your side.

A question; there has not been the take-up of discussion type posters we had hope for across from your Otter Browser Forum. Do you think your lot know they are welcome, indeed wanted, to post? Can you think of anything that can be done on your side to encourage them. I did wonder if a sticky thread asking for interest would help to entice some to take part. I suspect that quite a few read the stuff but don't post.

I guess that there are simply not enough users registering from otter-browser.org to let them become more visible in other threads...
We need continuous stream of new features to attract new users, hoping that at least some of them will be active outside that section.

If we could free human creativity first then recruiting more people to this forum should be easier.

+1

The rest of your post is correct.

I've already said the Vivaldi is a waste of space. Recently they went out of their way to make navigation harder on their blog/forum platform and have succeeded beyond their wildest dreams. If I want to lose a post so no one will ever find it--- I know where to do it.

It's a pity to hear that. Their browser's actually reasonably usable these days.

Not only we. This forum is a pond removed from its old stream of fresh water, there are many such. First we get stagnant, then we start to stink, and finally we'll be overgrown by weed and dry out.

We are not the only ones to smell funny, decay is all around us. At this stage it is not too late to do something about it, we just don't know what.
[...]
But if we continue as we do, there will not be a we when this forum is twice as old as now.

Your post deserves more reflection than I gave it initially (even if agreeing with or exactly because of that).
The fact it didn't trigger any passionated discussion is it already the proof of it's veracity? the acceptance of a fate no one can fight against?

I don't know...  but one thing I know, in the middle of a desert a little small pond means life, the only place with life. If it dries it's because everything in life has it's own time to exist, no more no less.
It doesn't matter if one can achieve his objectives what matters is if one keeps on trying. That's what will always remain, objectives being just temporary.

Your reference to an independent blog platform seems to me as something worthwhile of trying. If it succeeds it means that the small pond made it's way against all odds.

Who would had imagined that we would arrive to such a point when a small forum turns into an act of resistance in the middle of general indifference and apathy...

Happy Christmas.

Merry Christmas to all!

Merry Christmas to us all.

Bah!