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Topic: What's Going on in Europe (Read 212279 times)

What's Going on in Europe
Portugal is weeping, Geert Wilders Says Netherlands Would Be Better Off if It Left 28-Nation Bloc, France can't compete with Germany, Merkel is pissed at Obama, Belgium is ousting Afgans. Is anybody happy?

  • krake
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Re: What's Going on in Europe
Reply #1050
Moral integrity and IQ are the reasons why I reject the documentary.
You are referring to your own moral integrity and IQ. Don't you?  :left:
Thus, feel free to reject this documentary. It's your right. :)

  • ersi
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Re: What's Going on in Europe
Reply #1051
You are referring to your own moral integrity and IQ. Don't you?
Obviously I meant the same integrity and intelligence as you did. And I gave examples so there should be no question about it.

Sometimes I forget who you are. Thanks for reminding.

  • krake
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Re: What's Going on in Europe
Reply #1052
Obviously I meant the same integrity and intelligence as you did.
Nope!
I didn't refer to people with a pathologic russophob obsession.
Those are special cases, better suited to be discussed in a medical forum.

BTW,
no need to thank me for reminding you about your obsessions.
You have my sincerely compassion for them anyway.

  • ersi
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Re: What's Going on in Europe
Reply #1053
no need to thank me for reminding you about your obsessions.
I had somehow began assuming that you have a few % of credibility and you deserve a few % of good faith. Thanks for reminding that you have none and deserve none.

  • Belfrager
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Re: What's Going on in Europe
Reply #1054
This is Europe. The above discussion is a perfect example.
But no matter the divergences we are used to be the top of the world. I'm afraid those times are over.

I don't believe we'll resist for long.
Maybe is time to start changing our attitudes.
A matter of attitude.

  • ersi
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Re: What's Going on in Europe
Reply #1055
This is Europe. The above discussion is a perfect example.
But no matter the divergences we are used to be the top of the world. I'm afraid those times are over.

I don't believe we'll resist for long.
Maybe is time to start changing our attitudes.
I think Trump is handing Europe another chance. If Europe still has the balls, we can become a self-driving force on the world arena once again by moving in everywhere where Trump is moving out. And Brexit strengthens the opportunity, because UK always served as a Trojan horse of USA.

  • Belfrager
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Re: What's Going on in Europe
Reply #1056
Yes, I agree.
A matter of attitude.

  • Frenzie
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  • Administrator
Re: What's Going on in Europe
Reply #1057
Me three.

At present it's more China than us though.

  • rjhowie
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Re: What's Going on in Europe
Reply #1058
I* dare say that the countries in Europe who are incapable of looking after themselves will think the EU wonderful as long as the begging bowls are filled.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • jax
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  • Global Moderator
Re: What's Going on in Europe
Reply #1059
From the Skyscrapercity forum

Quote from: Sesto Elemento
The Jan. 2015 French census has been published, so we now have the data for Toulouse and Bordeaux from Jan. 2011 to Jan. 2015, like the other metro areas in the list).

This is the update, fastest growing metro areas of more than 1 million inhabitants (all data from Jan. 2011 to Jan. 2015):
1- Oslo metro area (6,920 km²; 1.3 million inh.): +1.83% per year
2- Stockholm metro area (6,526 km²; 2.2 million inh.): +1.70% per year
3- Bordeaux metro area (5,613 km²; 1.2 million inh.): +1.61% per year
4- Toulouse metro area (5,381 km²; 1.3 million inh.): +1.58% per year

So no change at the top. Oslo, Stockholm, Bordeaux, and Toulouse are the 4 fastest growing metro areas in Europe (excluding Russia and Istanbul).

Beyond these 4 metro areas which dominate the rest of the European metro areas, we find (all data refer to Jan. 2011-Jan. 2015 period, except otherwise indicated):
- Munich metro area (4,697 km²; 2.7 million inh.): +1.46% per year (between May 2011 and Jan. 2015)
- London metro area (INSEE definition) (3,976 km²; 10.7 million inh.): +1.32% per year
- Zurich metro area (1,551 km²; 1.5 million inh.): +1.31% per year
- Berlin metro area (5,421 km²; 4.5 million inh.): +1.30%  per year (between May 2011 and Jan. 2015)
- Helsinki metro area (3,698 km²; 1.4 million inh.): +1.29% per year
- London LUZ (8,922 km²; 13.6 million inh.): +1.23% per year

Beyond these, we have the Lyon metro area (at +1.16% per year), the Vienna and Dublin metro areas at slightly more than +1.1% per year, and then several other metro areas at less than +1.1% per year.

Of note, the Geneva metro area (which had 887,900 inh. in Jan. 2015) grew by +1.64% per year between Jan. 2011 and Jan. 2015. It's the fastest growing Francophone metro area in Europe at the moment (on par with Montpellier, which grew by +1.65% per year between Jan. 2011 and Jan. 2015 and now has 600,000 inh. in its metro area). Munich is the fastest growing Germanophone metro area Europe, and London is the fastest growing Anglophone metro area in Europe.

What's noticeable is the extreme decentralization of growth in Francophone Europe, the somewhat decentralized growth in Germanophone Europe (but still favoring the largest metro areas), and the super centralized growth in Anglophone Europe (which is probably unhealthy, like Francophone Europe before WW2).


  • Frenzie
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  • Administrator
Re: What's Going on in Europe
Reply #1060
I thought "Made in Italy" on a piece of clothing basically meant "it's mostly okay" but this article from 2013 tells a different story.

https://www.fashionunited.nl/Nieuws/Leads/50.000_Chinezen_werken_illegaal_in_de_Italiaanse_textielindustrie_2013123143281/

Related article in English from 2016: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/02/italys-biggest-chinese-community-clashes-with-police-near-florence

  • ersi
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Re: What's Going on in Europe
Reply #1061
What does "okay" mean to you when it comes to clothing? Does it mean "not done by Chinese"?

  • Frenzie
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  • Administrator
Re: What's Going on in Europe
Reply #1062
It means in compliance with European labor laws.

http://inthesetimes.com/working/entry/18066/out_of_sight_erik_loomi

  • ersi
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Re: What's Going on in Europe
Reply #1063
I thought it was common knowledge that in Mediterranean Europe hardly anything is in compliance with any laws. Even in Northern Europe where people supposedly follow laws closer, only state offices and banks come closest to being in compliance with laws and that is so because laws tend to be specifically written to suit them.

  • Belfrager
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Re: What's Going on in Europe
Reply #1064
I thought it was common knowledge that in Mediterranean Europe hardly anything is in compliance with any laws.
How romantic...
A matter of attitude.

  • jax
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  • Global Moderator
Re: What's Going on in Europe
Reply #1065
I was about to say that's at least 5 years old news, but then I saw it kind of was (the Dutch article was from 2013).

I have been to Prato, outside Florence, and many other centres of production and distribution through Europe, and sampled many products Made in Italy [by Chinese]

Fairly typical the town of Prato has been on a downwards trajectory, but I thought it was a fairly pleasant town. There was some Italian resentment to the Chinese, that didn't seem well-founded, the region's economic woes (producing leather products more than textiles) was not due to the shiny new Chinese warehouses outside of town, but market shifts were to affect everyone, including those shiny new Chinese warehouses outside of town. 

In the mid-to-late 1990's and the first few years of 2000's there was pretty significant people smuggling to Europe, primarily from Zhejiang. That dropped off pretty quickly as there wasn't that much of a business case, business and jobs were not that profitable, while wages and income grew very rapidly in China. Some looked for jobs as labourers, more tried as small-time entrepreneurs, the precariat in other words. As a consequence the number of Chinese (predominantly Zhejiangese) was grossly underestimated in the 1990s (because of illegal immigration), but grossly overestimated by the time of the financial crisis (because they had by then legalised their stay and/or returned to China, while outsiders assumed that the numbers still were underestimated). In Prague the Chinese community is probably half the official number now, while 20 years ago it was probably 2-3 as many as the official number. 

I haven't been to the Prato region for a few years, but reports were that business was not great and steadily getting worse, but a few have turned it into a viable business (Made in Itay by Chinese still exists), though probably not that profitable. Paperless Chinese in Europe have had a growth curve quite reminiscent of the DND Sanctuary. If there are any left, it would only be a handful. 

I found it fascinating, particularly that the wholesale prices in Europe could be way lower than buying direct from the Guangdong factories. The reason of course was stock, they could sell in Europe goods that they couldn't sell in China. It wasn't just Chinese, but Vietnamese, Bangladeshi, Pakistani, Romanians trying their luck as independent operators. That world has almost  disappeared, they lost to Zara, H&M, and other global brands battling out with the Internet. 

  • Frenzie
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  • Administrator
Re: What's Going on in Europe
Reply #1066
I thought it was common knowledge that in Mediterranean Europe hardly anything is in compliance with any laws.
As incorporated in "mostly okay." There's also a gradual difference between breaking the law (a technicality) and breaking the law (a bad thing).

To put it in vaguely Italian terms: not waiting for a red light, who cares. The lights don't turn off until 22 or so, but that doesn't mean they actually serve a purpose at 21:50. But ignoring a red light while there's traffic on the intersection -- bad.

More in line with the article, most might say that working an extra "black" hour is not so bad. In contrast, working all of your hours "black" is. And so on.

If they're truly not complying by any laws or the spirit thereof, why did they let them into the EU? :P

  • jax
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  • Global Moderator
Re: What's Going on in Europe
Reply #1067
For the most part they were like Apple or Google, making products people wanted most of the time, but not paying taxes unless they had to. The disadvantage of not paying taxes, as Apple and Google are discovering, local government has less incentive to support them.

In any case the Chinese merchants discovered the same as the locals did, it is almost impossible to turn a consistent profit as an independent operator.  The one with the best logistics system (primarily) and marketing operations (secondarily) wins. What's left is but a shadow of what it was a decade ago. Interestingly, and I do find these things interesting, the few survivors seem to operate above board. Tax avoidance gives companies a relative advantage, but there are also hidden costs in risks, costs and lost opportunities. You may save 20-25% by avoiding paying VAT, but once I made a calculation that the real savings should be something like 5%. It is questionable that this is profitable in the long run.  VAT is a clever if complicated way of taxing.

Not that it matters so much, these are still medium-sized operators. Of the 10% of businesses that have survived, I don't think more than 10% will survive the next ten years, a guesstimated 99% death rate. Everyone in the business have an eye on a way out.

  • Belfrager
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Re: What's Going on in Europe
Reply #1068
VAT is a clever if complicated way of taxing.
Vat is immoral. It taxes the poor the same charge it taxes the rich.
A matter of attitude.

  • Belfrager
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Re: What's Going on in Europe
Reply #1069
At the European Portugal, a new law allows people to take their animals, dogs and cats, to restaurants.
Bravo, now, as a smoker, I'm officially considered by the State as being bellow animals.
Wonderful Europe.
A matter of attitude.

  • rjhowie
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Re: What's Going on in Europe
Reply #1070
Dogs and cats, etc in restaurants. For goodness sake!
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • ersi
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Re: What's Going on in Europe
Reply #1071
Wasn't there a movie about rats in European restaurants? Yes, there was.

  • Barulheira
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Re: What's Going on in Europe
Reply #1072
Animals don't smoke.

  • Frenzie
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  • Administrator
Re: What's Going on in Europe
Reply #1073
At the restaurant where I worked, we had a few water bowls for patron's dogs. :P

  • rjhowie
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Re: What's Going on in Europe
Reply #1074
Well in my country Barulheira you are not allowed to smoke in restaurants, pubs, public buildings,stations and so on and there is still NO reason to have dashed animal pets in a restaurant. How sily and utterly daft.
"Quit you like men:be strong"