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Topic: Apple vs. the FBI (Read 6109 times)

  • OakdaleFTL
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Apple vs. the FBI
I assume everybody is aware of this "problem"... (Let me know if you require more background.)

I'm interested to hear the opinions of others. (I've recently finished reading Apple's latest response... And I've formed an opinion. :) )
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
No one listens to me as much as I do and even I have my limits...
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman

  • Frenzie
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  • Administrator
Re: Apple vs. the FBI
Reply #50
Here is a list of the 9 UK intelligence agencies, which I lifted from Wikipedia:

[html]
AgencyDescription
Domestic intelligenceSecurity Service/MI5[1]Domestic counter terrorism intelligence gathering and analysis.
National Domestic Extremism and Disorder Intelligence Unit (NDEDIU)[2]Domestic counter extremism intelligence gathering and analysis.
National Crime Agency (NCA)[3]Organised crime intelligence gathering and analysis.
National Ballistics Intelligence Service (NBIS)[4]Illegal firearms intelligence analysis.
National Fraud Intelligence Bureau (NFIB)[5]Economic crime intelligence gathering and analysis.
Foreign intelligenceSecret Intelligence Service (SIS)/MI6[6]Foreign intelligence gathering and analysis.
Defence Intelligence (DI)[7]Military intelligence analysis.
Signals intelligenceGovernment Communications Headquarters (GCHQ)[8]Signals intelligence gathering and analysis.
Joint intelligenceJoint Intelligence Organisation (JIO)[9]Joint intelligence analysis.
[/html]

Like with the US, most of the names are reasonably self-explanatory. Incidentally, here is a list of all 16 in the US, again thanks to Wikipedia.

[html]
AgencyParent AgencyFederal Department
Twenty-Fifth Air ForceUnited States Air ForceDefense
Intelligence and Security CommandUnited States ArmyDefense
Central Intelligence AgencynoneIndependent agency
Coast Guard IntelligenceUnited States Coast GuardHomeland Security
Defense Intelligence AgencynoneDefense
Office of Intelligence and CounterintelligencenoneEnergy
Office of Intelligence and AnalysisnoneHomeland Security
Bureau of Intelligence and ResearchnoneState
Office of Terrorism and Financial IntelligencenoneTreasury
Office of National Security IntelligenceDrug Enforcement AdministrationJustice
Intelligence BranchFederal Bureau of InvestigationJustice
Marine Corps Intelligence ActivityUnited States Marine CorpsDefense
National Geospatial-Intelligence AgencynoneDefense
National Reconnaissance OfficenoneDefense
National Security Agency/Central Security ServicenoneDefense
Office of Naval IntelligenceUnited States NavyDefense
[/html]

The big difference would seem to be that in the UK the department of defense has one big intelligence agency, while in the US it has multiple. To what extent that is actually a difference in practice is as of yet unclear to me. A quick peek at the DI's description on Wikipedia suggests it has largely analogous departments (or "groups" and "centres") to those of the US military.

  • ensbb3
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Re: Apple vs. the FBI
Reply #51
The FBI is amongst the double figure list of spying agencies

Lol, it wasn't on that list.

  • rjhowie
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Re: Apple vs. the FBI
Reply #52
And neither was Homeland Security amongst the missing.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • Frenzie
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  • Administrator
Re: Apple vs. the FBI
Reply #53
I suggest a Ctrl + F for "Federal Bureau of Investigation" and "Homeland Security". They're on the list alright, just as a parent agency and a federal department, respectively.

  • ensbb3
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Re: Apple vs. the FBI
Reply #54
There's egg on my face. :P

Reactionary posts like to cause me grief. :insane:

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: Apple vs. the FBI
Reply #55
That's probably only the second time in my (long) life that I've heard the term "reactionary" used in this manner...
Thanks! :)
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
No one listens to me as much as I do and even I have my limits...
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman

  • rjhowie
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Re: Apple vs. the FBI
Reply #56
Well there's nowhere to beat the good old place for security!
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • ensbb3
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Re: Apple vs. the FBI
Reply #57
Thanks!  :)

Eh, you win some, you lose some... It's open door n all, but, you don't have to thank me for sharing. Coffee's in the back if you want some tho.  ;) :coffee:

Well there's nowhere to beat the good old place for security!

[BestGeorgiaAccent] Mercy no! Whatever shall we do? [/bga]

  • ersi
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Re: Apple vs. the FBI
Reply #59
Good. Now it's taken care off without creating a security risk for iOS devices :)
"What kind of man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter."
― Terry Pratchett, Going Postal

  • ensbb3
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Re: Apple vs. the FBI
Reply #60
Good. Now it's taken care off without creating a security risk for iOS devices


I guess I can give my opinion now. That security risk has existed. Does exist. Will continue to. There isn't a device that is "secure". Not from Apple's end and certainly not from the user's end. What keeps that device secure are updates and good user habits. Exploits exist and Apple's position in this has been to keep you thinking otherwise.

I don't understand the FBI's play in this other than to bring Apple more in line. I'm finding it hard to believe the Feds couldn't break that phone. There isn't a chip that can't be bypassed when you're holding the device. Perhaps there's something I don't know. If so. I'd like to know. But it doesn't feel right.    
  • Last Edit: 2016-03-30, 02:05:52 by ensbb3

  • krake
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Re: Apple vs. the FBI
Reply #61

FBI breaks into San Bernardino gunman's iPhone without Apple's help, ending court case


What does this basically mean?
Apples' encryption schema has a security hole. A highly critical one. The FBI managed to exploit it successfully. Something others might have been done some time ago already.
The fishy part of the story:
Why did the FBI made public their successfully break in? It simply doesn't make any sense except it's another smoke-bomb placed on purpose into the media...
According to US regulations they are obliged now to hand over all the details of the exploit to Apple, so the company can fix the hole.

The more one thinks about the whole story the more fishy it gets.

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: Apple vs. the FBI
Reply #62
According to US regulations they are obliged now to hand over all the details of the exploit to Apple, so the company can fix the hole.
Cite, please!?
There are agreements between tech companies and law enforcement. But -so far as I know- there is no law that requires the government to give tech companies their tech...!
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
No one listens to me as much as I do and even I have my limits...
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman

  • krake
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Re: Apple vs. the FBI
Reply #63
Cite, please!?


Quote
The FBI's new tactic may be subject to a relatively new and little-known rule that would require the government to tell Apple about any vulnerability potentially affecting millions of iPhones unless it can show a group of administration officials that there's a substantial national security need to keep the flaw secret. This process, known as an equities review, was created by the Obama administration to determine if new security flaws should be kept secret or disclosed, and gives the government a specific time frame for alerting companies to the flaws.

source

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: Apple vs. the FBI
Reply #64
Thanks, Krake. But -as I said- there's no law...
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
No one listens to me as much as I do and even I have my limits...
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman

  • rjhowie
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Re: Apple vs. the FBI
Reply #65
Interesting that the FBI have broke through the phone and it is being said the US pals in Tel Aviv wre the people.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: Apple vs. the FBI
Reply #66

Interesting that the FBI have broke through the phone and it is being said the US pals in Tel Aviv wre the people.

Any number of people could have done it.
Quote

NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden says the FBI is full of, well, something, in its iPhone case.

Speaking on a video link from Moscow on Tuesday, Snowden used colorful language to explain why the FBI's claim that it needs Apple's help in unlocking the iPhone owned by Syed Farook isn't true.

"The FBI says Apple has the 'exclusive technical means' of getting into this phone," Snowden said at the Common Cause Blueprint for Democracy conference. "Respectfully, that's bullshit."

  • rjhowie
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Re: Apple vs. the FBI
Reply #67
If any number why no list?
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • string
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  • Forum Staff
Re: Apple vs. the FBI
Reply #68
The whole business has been fishy from the start.

It must surely have been in Apple's interest to have it put about that their phones were invulnerable to hacking into. Sell more phones that way.

It must also have been in the FBI / CIA / the whole lot of them, to have it thought that they did not know what was in the phones until such time as it became common knowledge. Catch more villains that way.

Now it's gone into muddying-the-water time.

Re: Apple vs. the FBI
Reply #69
I knew that was BS from the git-go. Snowden said so early on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtZLyvmKfV4

  • rjhowie
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Re: Apple vs. the FBI
Reply #70
You are security daft over there. Talk about immature.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: Apple vs. the FBI
Reply #71
And you, dear democrat that you are, are too naive and -might I add- too stupid! You have no idea what your government does; and you don't care, because you don't have the abilities required to understand... As long as you've got your National Health and your telly, you're good! :)

Indeed, the UK provides the processors for iPhones. (You likely didn't know that.) But they were developed at UC Berkeley... What last came out of Scotland? :)
I mean, besides your bile...?
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
No one listens to me as much as I do and even I have my limits...
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman

  • rjhowie
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Re: Apple vs. the FBI
Reply #72
Bile? Limited ex-colonist logic to the routine fore so just as well I know there are a couple of sensible ex-colonials here on the forum. Your country has more secret organisations overcrowding each other than any other country including dictatorships than anyone else. You are a bunch of emotional and political retards and the cost is massive along with the imperial cost of a million military people. You even started a new organisation with that Homeland Security lot and have so brained the population into thinking that all the stuff you do through them and on your own is morally right. A damn waste of money and when the spy clubs run well into double figures it shows how hopeless you are.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • ersi
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Re: Apple vs. the FBI
Reply #73

  • rjhowie
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Re: Apple vs. the FBI
Reply #74
Unfortunately with all those secret service agencies in such a "nervous" country that is small cheese!
"Quit you like men:be strong"