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Topic: What's Going on in the Americas? (Read 54054 times)

  • jax
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  • Global Moderator
What's Going on in the Americas?
There are a number of threads from the Old World, any news from the New? Anything American goes.

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1025
Show me examples of your "mature" opinions!
No examples...? I thought not.
Perhaps Rotherham... :(
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
No one listens to me as much as I do and even I have my limits...
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman

  • Colonel Rebel
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1026
Jefferson? A damn slave owner and had it off with a couple of the female ones. Don't start giving me guff about principles when you live where you do. Your country bums about itself like clowns in a circus.
Remind me.....which country was it that created the first concentration camp, which notably Hitler praised, during a certain Boer War?

Which country once had 1/3 of world's population under their watch, while they plundered, raped, and killed en mass?


Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1027
Jefferson? A damn slave owner and had it off with a couple of the female ones. Don't start giving me guff about principles when you live where you do. Your country bums about itself like clowns in a circus.

You mean like this?

"What kind of man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter."
― Terry Pratchett, Going Postal

  • Barulheira
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Clowns
Reply #1028
Clowns are frightening...

  • rjhowie
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Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1029
Try growing up Colonel. You lot had horrible concentration camps during your Civil War and unfortunately the Confederate side well into that too. You simply ignore what Jefferson did having slaves that Washington increased the number he was bequeathed with and your country boasts to the world on principles and so on that are  a damn lie. Even the KKK had hundreds of thousands in it, politicians, town councils, police, etc. Throw in the giant Mafia by the way as well!Corruption on a wide scale part of your history as a wonderful country of great boasting op principles. I would also remind that the British Commonwealth was originally from the old Empire and your lot could not do anything like that unless you corrupt a nation or invade it.  You also produced an empire by the corporate class which inherently runs America and what is called a political system.Invades countries and destroys many who don't agree with you and so on.The hard history of America is that the historical truths completely go against all the guff about principles, freedoms and so on.

The USA was created by the corporate class and freemasonry and the practices of it's history outlive the principled claims.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1030
I would also remind that the British Commonwealth was originally from the old Empire and your lot could not do anything like that unless you corrupt a nation or invade it.
Oh, like the British Empire was formed in the first place...
"What kind of man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter."
― Terry Pratchett, Going Postal

  • rjhowie
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1031
The British Empire  was an advance from the primitive and dangerous life style of previous centuries which your mindset corner just overlooks and a silly stance. And remember too the dozens of places that after the Empire still wanted linked  in the British Commonwealth of Nations. Your lot just took places over financially and militarily so don't come out with the usual arrogance, ignorance and void your corner has. That there is that Commonwealth you just ignore because the real truth is no help to you. Your country spends half the global military bill, demeans countries that refuse to kow-tow to you or be invaded by your corporate lot so don't come here with any better stance because you don't have it. Maybe it is just as well you do not have something like our Commonwealth because the way your place is run by nutters, limited democracy and big money barons you are unprincipled and a groan.  :faint:
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1032
We do have a sociopath robber baron as a president right now, but doesn't change the fact that the British Empire was founded on greed and brutality.
"What kind of man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter."
― Terry Pratchett, Going Postal

  • rjhowie
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1033
Rubbish as usual from an ex-colonist. And what pray is your country like in the damn world? Corroborate greed people running it and limited political party practice. When some country refuses to bow to your big business they will be politically or financially done in or an excuse to destroy it. So don't come on here with the brain dead propaganda you lot have pumped into your heads. Flags everywhere like over the top nationalists and yak about principles that don't exist in practice. Your mindset just ignores that hard fact that I illustrated that the former colonies of the Empire are in the British Commonwealth of Nations. That in itself tells you something that you lot just ignore but then Dr Goebells could have made a fortunate living in nutjobland. Brain dead.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1034
The US has become a banana republic ruled by an imbecile that lashes out on Twitter at everyone and everything that crosses his sociopath. There's talk of the lunatic starting World War III over North Korea. The monkeybrain calls news outlets such as CNN "Fake News" but gets his misinformation from notoriously unreliable places to outright conspiracy mongering places such a Breitbart.

Both our candidates were corporates: Hillary being a corporate shill and Trump being the personification of Wall Street itself. The point being, you do think you're telling me anything I don't know already? I can be honest about my country; all I'm asking is for you to be honest about your's. Maybe you can't because you've been telling yourself lies about Britain's history your whole life.
"What kind of man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter."
― Terry Pratchett, Going Postal

  • rjhowie
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1035
No I have not been telling myself lies about my country at all and I have always stated here you lot are tuck with 2 corporates all the damn time. We do NOT have that here and have a range of parties. We even had a coalition at the last General election for a time. And in the House of Commons r the smaller and or regional parties are ALL represented on the Standing Committees of the parliament which makes it far wide a system than you have got over there. This all a wider democracy and it also extsist on Town and City Councils so boyo we are wider and ahead of you!

Our empire was part of world history and you since the rise decades ago last century have been running your own empire world-wide and based on the power of corporates including the military corporate which loves all the wars you get involved in to boost them. You get a snidy remark about our Empire and totally ignore what was a help to many very immature places in the world. On top f that corner you also totally ignore the Commonplace of Nations (head office, London) so if we were so evil it wouldn't have existed! and all from the former Empire. So you still have an empire run by the corporate barons so I apologise for nothing and being rather unique as a nation not having a written constitution we have done much good in the Commonwealth and internally on the matter of democracy.  Due to the lack of wider politics in the US of A it leaves many a distance from a deeper form of proper democratic pursuit. In a fair way that is I would submit a very sad and disappointing aspectand no chance of anything happening re the big 2 corporate parties who have tied the place up, alienated many are getting nowhere. Heavens as a Glasgow man I would live in Edinburgh first!  :(
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • SmileyFaze
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Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1036
Jefferson? A damn slave owner and had it off with a couple of the female ones.

And I hear tell, over the tides of time to a year close by, one female relative o said slaves eventually made her way to Scotland.

Who knows, the years are within reason, give or take, one never knows, she may have even given birth to a scoundrel like you!!!

Imagine that.....RJ with American-Negro blood flowing in his orange heart's veins!!  
     In times of universal deceit, telling the honest truth is a revolutionary act.

Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1037
Scotland and slavery?   :sherlock:
http://www.blackhistorymonth.org.uk/article/section/history-of-slavery/scotland-and-slavery/

Quote
Scots proudly played their part in the abolition of the trade. But for a time we misted over our role as perpetrators of this barbarism. Many of Scotish industries, schools and churches were founded from the profits of African slavery.

The article goes on to note that at any given time there were only 70 - 80 African slaves in Scotland at any given time, however Scots owned 32 percent of the the slaves in Jamaica in 1812. This is an impressive dubious achievement given the low population of Scotland. Further, Scots masters were among the most cruel with life expectancy on the plantations being a mere four years.
"What kind of man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter."
― Terry Pratchett, Going Postal

  • ensbb3
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1038
ignorance and void your corner has.
If we're doing Yoda quotes, I'm going with - "Do or Do not, there is no try."

  • rjhowie
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Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1039
Typical reduced American stuff there midnight. As you are being very selective in the area of history may i remind that Scotland being part of Gt Britain was ahead of the USA in doing away with slavery. What makes that even more noted is that your lot doing a revolution and boasting about principles, freedoms, rights and high principles did not practice the damn things! You lot mostly over there totally bodyswerve that your wonderful creators did not care a damn about the slaves and as I also pointed out had slaves so don't come on here trying to ignore that harder truth of history.  We were ahead of you in doing away with slaves that had been a regular thing from centuries away back before AD.  Blacks could not get votes in States and were kept getting done in for ages and right into the 20th century. People even got elected into office in the wonderfully boasting US of A on racist tickets and legions of them in running towns, States, legal things, police and so on.

What you practiced totally contradicted all those boasting great principles when you broke away and the so-called principled leaders did slavery.  So decades after the British Empire did away with the thing you lot lived a constant hypocrisy and racial matters are still deeply flawed in the wonderful claimant of so-called principled country stuff. Clutch at daft straws but your history is damnable and still is.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • SmileyFaze
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Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1040
.....Gt Britain was ahead of the USA in doing away with slavery.....

.........What you practiced totally contradicted all those boasting great principles when you broke away and the so-called principled leaders did slavery.  So decades after the British Empire did away with the thing you lot lived a constant hypocrisy and racial matters are still deeply flawed in the wonderful claimant of so-called principled country stuff. Clutch at daft straws but your history is damnable and still is.

Oh pat yourself ...... pat yourself on the back ole Fossil. 

Is it fun fun being the moral hypocrite??

35 give or take short years as a newly emerging Nation....................

But your selective  "partial recollection"  Fossil does not convey ALL THE PERTINENT FACTS.... of
Britain's total involvement in Slavery.


The USA came into being with the publication of the Declaration of Independence, & the end of the American Revolutionary War, where the Americans defeated the British, & founded the United States of America.

The war started in 1765 & ended in 1783.

The U.S. Declaration of Independence was Signed & delivered in 1776.  So, for the sake of brevity I will stipulate that the USA became an entity after the first shots were fired at Lexington & Concord in 1775.

Slavery ended in the Americas when the 13th Amendment to the US Constitution was ratified in 1865

➤ ➤ So, from the year the USA came into existence .... 1775 to 1865 .... the USA, as a Nation (not as the British Colony prior to 1775), was involved in Slavery on its own as a Nation for 90 years.

➤ ➤ ➤ ➤ Prior to 1775 the British were in control of ALL it's Colony's Slave Trade.

Now, lets look at the history of Britain's participation in the Slave Trade.......which some estimate as being over 2,000 years, but records are scant, & confirming that exact total would be problematic at best.

Let's begin with a bona fide point in time, Britain's Slave Trading History as documented by, who better, by the British themselves:



Britain, the 'Nefarious Trade' & Slavery

Source:      HISTORY in focus    
Quote
Britain followed in the footsteps of the Portuguese in voyaging to the west coast of Africa and enslaving Africans. The British participation in what has come to be called the 'nefarious trade' was begun by Sir John Hawkins with the support and investment of Elizabeth I in 1573. (15) By fair means and foul, Britain outwitted its European rivals and became the premier trader in the enslaved from the seventeenth century onwards, and retained this position till 1807. Britain supplied enslaved African women, men and children to all European colonies in the Americas.

The 'Slave Coast' came to be dotted with European forts, their massive guns facing out to sea to warn off rival European slave traders. Each 'castle' incorporated prisons or 'barracoons' in which the enslaved women, children and men were kept, awaiting purchase by the traders, who could initially only reach the coast at those times of the year when the winds blew in the right direction. The prisons - without sanitation, with little air - must have been hell-holes in the humid coastal climates. The death rates are not known.

The trade became a very lucrative business. Bristol grew rich on it, then Liverpool. London also dealt in slaves as did some of the smaller British ports. (16) The specialised vessels were built in many British shipyards, but most were constructed in Liverpool. Laden with trade goods (guns and ammunition, rum, metal goods and cloth) they sailed to the 'Slave Coast', exchanged the goods for human beings, packed them into the vessels like sardines and sailed them across the Atlantic. On arrival, those left alive were oiled to make them look healthy and put on the auction block. Again, death rates (during the voyage) are unknown: one estimate, for the 1840s, is 25 per cent.

Plantation and mine-owners bought the Africans - and more died in the process called 'seasoning'. In the British colonies the slaves were treated as non-human: they were 'chattels', to be worked to death as it was cheaper to purchase another slave than to keep one alive. Though seen as non-human, as many of the enslaved women were raped, clearly at one level they were recognised as at least rapeable human beings. There was no opprobrium attached to rape, torture, or to beating your slaves to death. The enslaved in the British colonies had no legal rights as they were not human - they were not permitted to marry and couples and their children were often sold off separately.

Historian Paul Lovejoy has estimated that between 1701 and 1800 about 40 per cent of the approximately more than 6 million enslaved Africans were transported in British vessels. (It must be noted that this figure is believed by some to be a considerable underestimate.) Lovejoy estimated that well over 2 million more were exported between 1811 and 1867 - again, many believe the numbers were much greater. (17)

Abolition of the trade by Britain

Europeans who were Roman Catholics often treated their slaves more humanely than those of the Protestant faith, perhaps especially the members of the Church of England, which owned slaves in the West Indies. (Roman Catholics did not deny Africans their humanity and made attempts at conversion, while British slaveowners forbade church attendance.) The enslavement of Africans was justified in Britain by claiming that they were barbaric savages, without laws or religions, and, according to some 'observers' and academics, without even a language; they would acquire civilisation on the plantations.

In the 1770s, some Christians in Britain began to question this interpretation of the Bible. They began a campaign to convert the population to their perspective and to influence Parliament by forming anti-slavery associations. Slavery was declared a sin. According to some interpreters of William Wilberforce, the main abolitionist spokesperson in Parliament, it was this fear of not going to heaven that impelled him to carry on the abolitionist struggle for over 20 years. (18)

Parliamentarians and others who could read, or had the time to attend meetings, were well informed about slavery by the books published by two ex-slaves, Olaudah Equiano and Ottobah Cugoano; slightly less dramatic and emphatic anti-slavery books were published by Ignatius Sancho and Ukwasaw Groniosaw. Equiano, like Thomas Clarkson (another truly remarkable man), lectured up and down the country, and in Ireland. (19)

The Act making it illegal for Britons to participate in the trade in enslaved Africans was passed by Parliament in March 1807, after some 20 years of campaigning. Precisely why so many people signed petitions and why Parliament voted for the Act is debatable. (20) It is somewhat curious that many of the chief - including Quaker - abolitionists were importers of slave-grown produce. (21)
Slave emancipation by Britain

A few Britons - including the British Africans - were not content with abolition and campaigned for the emancipation of slaves. This was another long struggle. Among the most forceful were the women abolitionists, who, being denied a voice by the men, formed their own organisations and went door-knocking, asking people to stop using slave-grown products such as sugar and tobacco. The most outspoken was probably Elizabeth Heyrick who believed in immediate emancipation, as opposed to the men who supported gradual freedom. (22)

This battle was won when Parliament passed the Emancipation Act in 1833; as the struggle was led by men, it was for gradual emancipation. But protests, often violent in the West Indies, resulted in freedom in 1838. The slaveowners were granted £20 million (about £1 billion today) compensation; all the freed received was the opportunity to labour for the paltry wages that had now to be offered.

This Act only freed the enslaved in the West Indies, Cape Town, Mauritius and Canada. Slavery continued in the rest of the British Empire. Even the importation of slaves into a British colony continued - into Mauritius, obtained from the French after the Napoleonic Wars, where importation was not stopped until about 1820. (23)

Emancipation in Britain

Africans have lived in Britain since they arrived as troops within the Roman armies. How many came here in more modern times, i.e., since the fifteenth century, has not been researched. They begin to appear in parish records of births and deaths from the sixteenth century. (24) Again, what proportion was free and how many were slaves is not yet known. The famous decision by Chief Justice Lord Mansfield in 1772 in the case of James Somerset, taken to court by activist Granville Sharp, merely stated that Africans could not be exported from the UK to the West Indies as slaves. There was no consistency in the many court judgements on the legality of slavery in Great Britain. (25)

The efficacy of the Acts

As there was almost nothing done to ensure that the Acts were obeyed, slave traders continued their activities, as did the shipbuilders. Information about this was sent to Parliament by the abolitionists, some of the captains in the Anti-Slavery Squadrons and British consular officials in slave-worked Cuba and Brazil. Investigations were held, more Acts were passed, but all to no avail, as no means of enforcement was put in place in Britain. All the government did was to set up the Anti-Slavery Squadron - at first comprised of old, semi-derelict naval vessels, unfit for the coastal conditions. To enable them to stop slavers of other nationalities, Britain entered into treaties with other slaving countries. But these were also ignored. The slave trade continued, unabated.

Britain not only continued to build slaving vessels, but it financed the trade, insured it, crewed some of it and probably even created the many national flags carried by the vessels to avoid condemnation. Britain also manufactured about 80 per cent of the goods traded for slaves on the Coast. (26).............

This about sums it up:

               
                                                    SLAVERY

THE USA    from  1775  to  1865          =  90 years

GREAT BRITAIN    from  1573  to  1833  =  260 years

Put that in yer book Fossil!  





  • Last Edit: 2017-10-19, 04:49:57 by SmileyFaze
     In times of universal deceit, telling the honest truth is a revolutionary act.

  • rjhowie
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1041
I have put up with your class arrogance, stupidness and ignorance as there are so many of you over there with limited understanding. Will try and be as simple as can to waken your brain cells.

Slavery dear ignorant, existed for centuries even well before the time of Christ but your lot waxing groaning stuff about rights, freedoms and so on just did a dance. Your founders included slavery owners and hypocrites. With an Empire when we broke away from the ancient practice it effected a very wide stretch across the world. You lot of nonentities waxing about principles only put them in practice for the upper class of your country and trailed years behind us (so much for wonderful principles on a bit of wasted paper). Murdering of regular black people, burning them out and refusing them votes and so on usually carried out by people in elected office! So waffle as long as you like and slag off in a country that allows terrorist supporters.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • SmileyFaze
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1042
   

White Flag accepted Fossil........You presented absolutely no defense to the above.......

He who said they can't defend the indefensible, spoke the truth when describing the Brits own involvement in the 'Nefarious Trade'....

When it comes to murdering Black African Women, Children, Grandmothers, & Grandfathers in cold blood, locked sick & starving in the holds of British built wooden Slave ships, for profit, there's no race on the planet better at it than the Brits. It is estimated that over 25% of those Slaves transported by the British, died horridly in transit, from starvation, disease, & dehydration. Of the British, there are none more coward or offensive than the lowly Scots, who's cruelty was unsurpassed it their treatment of their shackled African Slaves in particular. History bears this out......History testified to here by the British themselves.

Those 225+ years of promoting & profiting from African Slavery, sponsored by the British Royals starting with Queen Elizabeth I, since the mid to late 1500's at least, as the British themselves have testified to  here, was just the tip of the British Slaving Iceberg, which some say probably spanned over a millennia.

And they have the consummate gall to call themselves 'Great' Britain, & even attempt to hypocritically belittle others who actually pale in comparison to their own repulsive slaving history.    What a disgrace of a Race. They should pull their bowler hats down to their chins, & hide their hypocritical faces in complete & utter shame. 

  • Last Edit: 2017-10-21, 06:50:08 by SmileyFaze
     In times of universal deceit, telling the honest truth is a revolutionary act.

  • rjhowie
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1043
This stuff coming from a country with the history IT has?!

Totally ignores the hard truth that all the guff about starting a wonderful country is rubbish. You totally ignore the founding president was a slave owner who increased the number he had from inheriting the thing. That a main Constitution git was a slave owner that Lincoln was a total hypocrite over black people. Also ignore that the centuries old slave tradition the world had from earliest history was banned by us before you with all your political lies and deceit. Even when you did eventually catch up on slavery did the blacks get the same fairness as whites? No they damn well did not and right up into the 1960's Negroes were still treated like rubbish. And in another more modern era during World War 2 the US Army still had to practice segregation by having white or black only units. When US troops were based here white soldiers were shocked that local British girls danced with blacks unlike them yet you were in "principle" fighting against racist Germany!

If you have money you are fine in the US of A but if not then tough. From the start of the USA aided by your masons what was on paper was a farce because legions of Americans got little out of it. The equal legions who left after the separation to Canada did the right thing because your lace has practiced hypocrisy from the beginning. Your fanatical nationalism that is beyond patriotic but fanatical and need flags everywhere except in the toilet. You funded terrorists and blag about how principled the damn place is. Tell that to the forty plus million Yanks who are poor and stuck with a two-party corporate party system and that is it.  You have a history internally and externally which contradicts all the ballyhoo of the wonderful Constitution so terror killer supporter try growing up mentally to correspond with your age. You just ignore all the contradicting facts and shows the depth (although there are decent Americans) that too many like you just get brained into hand on the heart, flag waving and ignore the deep contradicting.  That you display evil terrorism in your badge is a damn disgrace and i have never supported anything in that vein but you are getting away with such.

It is one thing having strong views on subjects but that you are allowed to promote a violent stance, history and fact is disgusting on a forum.
 
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • Colonel Rebel
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1044
From the start of the USA aided by your masons...
Ah yes; the good old OO vs FM rivalry.


  • rjhowie
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1045
Well Southern boy I am fortunate not to be a FM and stick to a proper Proddy organisation the OO. That that lot after pretending to be Indians and leaving their aprons behind were the creators of the corporate republic.  At least my degrees with it are spiritually based.  :D
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • Colonel Rebel
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1046
Well Southern boy I am fortunate not to be a FM and stick to a proper Proddy organisation the OO. That that lot after pretending to be Indians and leaving their aprons behind were the creators of the corporate republic.  At least my degrees with it are spiritually based.  :D
I have absolutely no idea what you are going on about, but as I know several Freemasons, I can appreciate the rivalry.

  • rjhowie
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1047
Well I do make allowances for you not knowing you being an ex-colonist. As for a prospective rivalry I would muse that at least my corner has a stance and explanatory situation which is more than can be said by your Tea Party pals. How such a vague organisation got onto your banknotes is tut-tut stuff! In my city the FM's have lost at least three halls I know about. I am also a member of the Black order too a separate organisation but you must be a member of the OO and it's senior degree and be active to be in it to stay on the Black. Apparently the driver of the car that Kennedy was assassinated in was a member of the OO but hey don't blame us!
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • SmileyFaze
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1048




Tiocfaidh ár lá

Ooh Ah Up The Ra!!!




..
  • Last Edit: 2017-10-27, 07:02:38 by SmileyFaze
     In times of universal deceit, telling the honest truth is a revolutionary act.

  • rjhowie
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1049
I have remained here after the Opera loss and can tackle things as well as anyone but I think it is even allowing for would-be supposed humour for a site to freely permit someone who is a terrorist by virtue of the stuff that SmileyFace puts on here.

Ireland will NOT be unified and neither does the South of the country want to be ruled by the total scumbags that the SF is by it's policies and open support for terrorism. SmileyFace is part of that sickening corner. They murdered people in their own communities and I have no time for terrorist groups who try to indicate "principles." On top of that Smiley is not a Marxist but the Sinn Fein leans in that direction so he is very hypocritical and would have no time for that corner ruling his country or it's politics. The SF criminals will never rule the Irish Republic which has moved on from the old silly days and grew up unlike the Smiley corner.

So although I am perfectly able to argue and debate I am not satisfied that this Forum system permits a person who is supporting terrorism to get away with what he is doing here. He can call me what he likes over my stance but I am now not of the mind to give up my non-violent and intelligence capabilities strength. However in permitting him what he is associating with is not my cup of tea and may over the weekend depart from this corner and another member less.  No doubt he will come up with his routine degregation and childish way of pushing things but I am now not of the mind to be here with terrorism allowed willy-nilly.  In passing he can say what he likes but I am leaning on principled departure.
"Quit you like men:be strong"