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Topic: What's Going on in the Americas? (Read 106700 times)

  • jax
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What's Going on in the Americas?
There are a number of threads from the Old World, any news from the New? Anything American goes.

  • Belfrager
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Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1100
Thankfully there are two Americas, North and South. Time to post about the Southern one, much more interesting than the Northern neighbors.

Bolsonaro won Brazilian presidential elections today.
It will affect the entire world.

Unlike the cultural-leftist area accuses him, he's not a fascist, not even close. He's simply an imbecile populist. The same kind of Philippine's Duterte.

In my opinion this is the first world wide consequence of big dimension against amoral capitalism. People in Brasil can't stand anymore more violence and corruption. They vote for those that promises and acts against it, no matter the cost.

Democracy is facing challenges that obviously their representatives can't match.

I'll post more about it.
A matter of attitude.

  • jax
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Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1101
I would claim he is more dangerous than Duterte. Both could be seen as violent buffons in countries racked with crime and corruption, but Duterte is a complete outsider, while Bolsonaro may have inside help.

My view from afar is that the driver in all of the Americas, particularly the South and even more so the wiggly parts in the middle, is entrenched inequality.

Those who have it won't give it away and fear and despise those who haven't got it. Those who haven't got it want, but can't get, it. The Americas got the most violent cities, and for that matter countryside, of the whole world. Not the United States of America, though their cities are violent by Old World standards. At the same time the Americas are relatively affluent and organised (though the rest of the world is catching up).

  • ensbb3
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Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1102
Of course there's still the refugee caravan.  Coming to seek 100% legal asylum. Some 7,000 (or less) (probably less) people that seem to be the new boogieman for Trump apologists. Over 50,000 a month are caught trying to enter illegally with next to no useful or less damaging results from the administration. But lets worry about those people coming to enter according to established laws.

  • krake
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Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1103
Migrant caravan


  • ersi
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Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1104
Colorado Votes To Abolish Slavery
[The amendment] will change Article II, Section 26 of the state's constitution, which has stated for more than 100 years: "Slavery prohibited. There shall never be in this state either slavery or involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime, whereof the party shall have been duly convicted."

The new version will shorten that second sentence to say, "There shall never be in this state either slavery or involuntary servitude."
In the US Constitution , the 13th amendment that supposedly abolished slavery reads, "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist..." i.e. slavery is fine when you deserve it as punishment.

  • Barulheira
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Involuntary servitude
Reply #1105
From now on, the criminals shall rest in peace.

  • Belfrager
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Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1106
In the US Constitution , the 13th amendment that supposedly abolished slavery reads, "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist..."
This is incredible.
A matter of attitude.

  • ersi
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Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1107
It's amazing how the United States had a civil war over nothing. The southern states could have accepted Lincoln's amendment and sentence their slaves for some crime or another to slavery, to keep their state of affairs. All in compliance with law.

  • Belfrager
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Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1108
The southern states could have accepted Lincoln's amendment and sentence their slaves for some crime or another to slavery, to keep their state of affairs. All in compliance with law.
Course not. The difference is between persons and cultures, not what an idiot paragraph says.
A matter of attitude.

  • ensbb3
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Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1109
The southern states could have accepted Lincoln's amendment
What amendment? His election was the catalyst. Any efforts to amend the constitution would have failed outright given ratification. Legislative power was the issue and States seceded before he took office. The issue leading to war then turned to whether or not a State could secede. Thus beginning the war of northern aggression.

At the time the cotton industry relied on the labor force as the south's industrialization wasn't yet underway. Or at least not widespread.

and sentence their slaves for some crime or another to slavery, to keep their state of affairs.
Which is exactly what happened. See Civil Rights issues.

...

Some States, even ex-confederate ones, have laws against chaingangs and the likes today. Others do not. The Constitution is an old document and in a time where the Brits were taking American sailors as slaves to serve on their ships such a clause was more humane than the norm, for the time. Insisting that those who have taken from society give back. The potential for abuse in such a thing is obvious.

  • ersi
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Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1110
and sentence their slaves for some crime or another to slavery, to keep their state of affairs.
Which is exactly what happened. See Civil Rights issues.
Yes. Which is why I said the Civil War was over nothing, i.e. it did not change much.

The Constitution is an old document and in a time where the Brits were taking American sailors as slaves to serve on their ships such a clause was more humane than the norm, for the time.
In this sentence, what does "American" mean? Surely not natives (so-called Indians)? Then who? African-Americans (really Africans)? The colonist rabble (really Brits)?

  • ensbb3
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Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1111
Yes. Which is why I said the Civil War was over nothing, i.e. it did not change much.
Hindsight is a luxury modern minds take for granted. When judging history with modern eyes people often forget what it took for them to have the capacity they do. Even if it was over nothing, it changed everything.

In this sentence, what does "American" mean? Surely not natives (so-called Indians)? Then who? African-Americans (really Africans)? The colonist rabble (really Brits)?
Oh, right. Semantics.

Context is a thing. I'm not going to commit much if all I'll be arguing is besides the point...
i.e. it did not change much.

That being said... If you have to add something to American... It's "surely" not that.

And. African-Americans aren't really Africans. Definitively not today and arguably not then either.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Not that I would even try to sum up what you just dismissed in a few paragraphs [The Civil War motives, or that last hidden bit.]. OR was even trying to do more than continue a conversation on them.

I really wasn't that concerned. But now I have to reiterate; What amendment? You seem interested in making my response seem pointless, however, your premise is not right and dismissive. Missing that and all contextual clues, where do you think that leaves me in this?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Causality can be found with context, though.  :worried:
  • Last Edit: 2018-11-15, 16:18:35 by ensbb3

  • jax
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  • Global Moderator
Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1112
Thus beginning the war of northern aggression.

I take that as an invite, and little is as delightful as discussing other people's civil wars, but this would just not be the same without the subtle historical expertise of rjhowie.

From the perspective of the European powers of the day, a Divided States of America would have been preferable.

On the bright side, judging from the current political threads we may have gotten them now, just a century and little later. That of course also applies to the Divided States of South and Central America.

  • ensbb3
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Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1113
but this would just not be the same without the subtle historical expertise of rjhowie.
Indeed. You can't appreciate how insignificant it all was until compared to a proper empire's goings-on.

From the perspective of the European powers of the day, a Divided States of America would have been preferable.
You'd think so. One wonders why the BE didn't want to be more aggressive. Aiding the Confederates was yet another chance to slap the yanks in the face. Possibly even reconvene The King's Continental Congress for another session.

  • Belfrager
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Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1114
What is that spoiler thing at ensbb3 post?

From the perspective of the European powers of the day, a Divided States of America would have been preferable.
Europeans powers of the day, yesterday as today and, probably, tomorrow, are not exactly the best for Europe.
We still live under American protection.

Merkel said it - we need an European army.
A matter of attitude.

  • ersi
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Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1115
Merkel said it - we need an European army.
But a European army won't work when it is powered by Russian oil, I'd assume.

Then again, Hitler made something like this almost work when he attacked Russia.
On February 11, 1940, Germany and the Soviet Union entered into the German-Soviet Commercial Agreement... The trade pact helped Germany to surmount the British blockade of Germany.[97] The main raw materials specified in the agreement were one million tons of grain, 900,000 tons of oil and more than 500,000 tons of various metal ores (mostly iron ore) in exchange for synthetic material plants, ships, turrets, machine tools and coal.[128] The agreement also contained a "Confidential Protocol" providing the Soviet Union would undertake purchases from third party countries of "metals and other goods" on behalf of Germany.
Do we want to be like Hitler?

Edit: This reference is not random. It was not too long ago when Merkel was ultra-cozy with Putin and they envisioned visa-freedom with Russia and even an eventual EU membership for Russia. This coziness had been established by earlier Bundeskanzlers who outlined more ways to bring in more Russian oil to Germany.
  • Last Edit: 2018-11-16, 07:35:05 by ersi

  • jax
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Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1116
So Russian oil is going on in the Americas?

There are three main sources of natural gas to Europe, Russia, the North Sea (particularly Norway), and North Africa, with the Middle East coming in. In addition there are some terminals for liquid natural gas (LNG), incidentally Trump's interest in European energy, the hope that Europe will buy more LNG from the US (I knew I could squeeze in the Americas). 

Russian oil is less relevant, and Middle Eastern oil more relevant. Oil is also already liquid, and shipped around the seven seas, so the world market is more liquid as well (while gas is more regional, dependent on pipelines or expensive LNG). Russia's choice is Europe or East Asia. After that little spat on the West front, Russia has preferred deals with China (Japan and Korea are interested as well, but require a different route, so China it is). 

Burning oil, gas, and coal is just part of the European energy supply (45% in 2015). 



compared with US supply (84%): 



Renewable energy will increase, but by different speed in different countries. 



  • ensbb3
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Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1117
What is that spoiler thing at ensbb3 post?
Dramatic effect?

Click to reveal. Or don't.

  • ersi
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Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1118
@jax Turkey again as a European country? You always find a way to squeeze that in there.

  • jax
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Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1119
OK, we are getting closer to thanksgiving, but Turkey certainly isn't American. 

  • Belfrager
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Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1120
Dramatic effect?
Didn't know you were a dramatist... Tcharam!!!

Turkey will sell it's support to Europe. And Europe will gladly pay for it.
Things are changing very fast in geopolitics with a new realign motivated by the American "holidays".

A matter of attitude.

  • ensbb3
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Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1121
Didn't know you were a dramatist... Tcharam!!!
Theatrics have a place.

  • jax
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  • Global Moderator
Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1122
Points to @ensbb3  for de-entropising this place.