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Topic: What's Going on in the Americas? (Read 225149 times)

  • jax
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What's Going on in the Americas?
There are a number of threads from the Old World, any news from the New? Anything American goes.

  • Frenzie
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  • Administrator
Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1325
43 Percent of Nevadans
Are you talking fully of partially? Fully wouldn't be too bad.

I just got my second prick yesterday.

Here are the Belgian stats: https://covid-vaccinatie.be/nl

Germany's having a problem convincing enough people to actually go get the vaccine: https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-maps/countries-and-territories/germany/

  • Frenzie
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Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1326
I just checked https://www.laatjevaccineren.be/vaccinatieteller-cijfers-per-gemeente and Antwerp's actually one of the lowest in Flanders at 59.49% fully vaccinated. That means the national 49,62% must be coming from Brussels/Wallonia.

  • jax
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  • Global Moderator
Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1327
The irony with mask wearing is that the infection rate would have been much lower if everyone who didn't wear masks wore them and everyone who did didn't. Those who don't wear masks are far more likely to be infected and infectious than those who do.

And while the vaccine doesn't fully protect against getting infected and passing that on, it is quite silly that the vaccinated ones are the ones to wear masks.

  • jax
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  • Global Moderator
Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1328
There is a Norwegian saying roughly like "Rise like a bear, fall like a fur coat".



The logistics of providing vaccines succeeded very well, the politics of breaking through wall of anti-vaxx propaganda less so. 

Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1329
Are you talking fully of partially? Fully wouldn't be too bad.
43 percent are fully vaccinated, 51 percent are partially
  • Last Edit: 2021-07-22, 14:08:04 by midnight raccoon
"What kind of man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter."
― Terry Pratchett, Going Postal

Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1330
This graph shows the increase in Covid cases in Nevada. While we're still way below the peaks of the dark, cold Covid winter, the cases are definitely on the rise.

The graph is screenshot of the dashboard located here.
"What kind of man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter."
― Terry Pratchett, Going Postal

  • jax
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  • Global Moderator
Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1331
Since this is the Americas thread, South America does stand out.






https://twitter.com/jaxroam/status/1418252167102730258

  • jax
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  • Global Moderator
Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1332

  • ensbb3
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Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1333
I can't see Kennedy ever have being a Vatican puppet. Biden on the other hand...

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1334
California update: Don't just sit there... Panic!
(Among others, Biden administration agrees...)

Have there yet been any studies showing masking and social distancing are an effective means to slowing (let alone stopping) the spread of this respiratory virus?

In the "meantime"... Another epidemic looms.
  • Last Edit: 2021-12-14, 20:32:10 by OakdaleFTL
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
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  • ersi
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Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1335
Have there yet been any studies showing masking and social distancing are an effective means to slowing (let alone stopping) the spread of this respiratory virus?
Why do medical doctors wear masks?

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1336
Mainly, to keep from spitting into their patients and to keep their surgical patients' blood from entering their own mouths... :) Need I add, they make TV actors look "all cool and science-y"?
But, seriously, there's some question of their (the wearing of masks) efficacy. For the purposes listed above, a face mask and goggles makes sense; or a full face shield.
Consider this: The main purpose investigated in the study to which I linked was avoidance of SSIs (surgical site infections), that is bacteriological contamination... The size of viruses is orders of magnitude smaller!
Sometimes, a little logic can confound common sense. That's often the benefit of doing studies and publishing their results.

Hence my question...
  • Last Edit: 2021-12-14, 23:51:41 by OakdaleFTL
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
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  • ersi
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Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1337
Sometimes, a little logic can confound common sense. That's often the benefit of doing studies and publishing their results.

Hence my question...
You mean modern professional medical practices are based on some common sense contrary to "a little logic", instead of studies?

You have not seen the world much, so maybe you do not know that mask policies have been widespread in Asian countries all this century ever since the SARS epidemic at least. Why are they doing this?

According to "a little logic", because they are Commies, obviously, each and every one of them, Japanese, South Koreans, Taiwanese, Singaporeans etc! USA lost the war in Vietnam, so dominoes fell all over the place, they are all Commies and now Communism has spread to USA. They are coming to take away your guns and your rights! If you have not done this already, it is your last chance to build a bunker and sit there with canned meat and your guns. Use "a little logic" and studies!

Seriously, these mask and vaccination policies in USA started under Trump. Fauci started under Trump too. Hopefully you arrive at the correct conclusion from this: Pandemic does not care about your ideology. Response to a pandemic is completely independent of politics.

  • Frenzie
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  • Administrator
Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1338
Don't just sit there... Panic!
panic → that's annoying, but I guess we have to

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1339
Hope you got all that out of your system... (You must really miss the Trump thread! :) ) And I hope you feel better now.

Fauci -by the way- has been around for a very long time. And his various proposals for containing the pandemic are not the point: The proposals put into effect and their results are.
Japanese, South Koreans, Taiwanese, Singaporeans etc. (and many others now) have placed great store in masking. How's that working out? Seriously?

China's large cities are a special case: Their level of particulate air pollution often requires masking. (I remember when Los Angeles did, too. But most Angelenos didn't appreciate the common-sense measure -- then.)

I take it you still refuse to read anything I link to...? Too bad. You might learn something; perhaps even rekindle your curiosity about the world beyond your prejudices' shelter.

@Frenzie:: No, I don't believe we do. The natural progression is Epidemic, Pandemic, Endemic... I'm quite curious to see if our seasonal flu (also a corona virus) makes a come-back. It's possible that a mild variant of Covid will replace it.

Newsom's new mandate doesn't tackle the onerous problem of enforcement; it's left to the various counties to do what they will. (You may not be aware that Newsome did not impose such a mandate during our recent peak in infections... But he was facing a recall election then; perfectly understandable. :( ) BTW: Some Stanford medicos make a convincing argument for the Omicron Variant's origin: Incubation of covid in an untreated AIDS patient; the mystery of its large number of mutations being explained by its environment, a near-depleted immune system. The good news: Their patient was treated with an antiretroviral regime... The patient's immune system recovered, essentially AIDS free. And the Covid-19 quickly abated.
  • Last Edit: 2021-12-15, 11:07:03 by OakdaleFTL
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
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  • Frenzie
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  • Administrator
Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1340
No, I don't believe we do. The natural progression is Epidemic, Pandemic, Endemic...
The progression is whatever we want it to be. In this case China wanted it to be a severe pandemic, taking a week or two keeping the genome secret back in January 2020 and so on. Additionally, Chinese scientists go frolicking around in bat caves without any protection, contracting bat viruses no human would ever naturally catch.

If you wish to think of China's excesses as the natural order that's your business, but I still live in what we once called the free West.

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1341
I understand your point, except for the first part: "The progression is whatever we want it to be." Evolution works its wiles whether we wish it or no. I myself am unconvinced of CoV-2's natural genesis... (Although I suspect an unintentional lab-leak more likely, I can see why some would see malice first. I'm willing to split the difference: Say the tweaked bug got out, and the Chinese Party bigwigs decided to obfuscate... We'll likely never know.) The bug's in the wild now. That's more important to deal with than recriminations, however justified.
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
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  • Barulheira
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Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1342
Have there yet been any studies showing masking and social distancing are an effective means to slowing (let alone stopping) the spread of this respiratory virus?
I'm not aware of studies measuring exactly that. I'm aware of news all around the world about that.
Since the incubation of the virus is 10 to 14 days, it takes about 2 weeks to see the effects of such measures. And we have seen that all around. In places where social distancing has taken effect, the pandemic has slowed down severely in two weeks; when such measures are relaxed, the pandemic speeds up again after two weeks. This explains, in part, the various waves of infection (before widespread vaccination).
In my opinion, no more studies are required.

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1343
Except where, when such measures aren't relaxed, the pandemic speeds up again, anyway. :) Sorry to disagree, but I think more study is crucial; specially given the obvious waning of the efficacy of the vaccines. And the effect of all those mutations in Omicron, working together, is not well understood.
I'm -as I said- not willing to panic. By the same token, I'd not be complacent -- except for myself! I'm already old. I hope for a dominant variant that -at most- targets the elderly and/or those with serious comorbidities.
Unlike our seasonal flu...
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
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  • Barulheira
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Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1344
Except where
Where?
Anyway, I said "this explains in part". There are many other factors that affect the outcome, like for instance new variants. Anyway those would be exceptions. As a rule, those measures have shown being effective in slowing down the pandemic, which is a great thing.

  • jax
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  • Global Moderator
Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1345
Have there yet been any studies showing masking and social distancing are an effective means to slowing (let alone stopping) the spread of this respiratory virus?

Yes, but before 2020 there was a dearth of studies, and those were low quality. A full consolidation will still take some time, but proper masks reduce transmission. Face shields don't really. The whole picture is complicated by other behaviours and transmissibility. If you stay long enough in a room with somebody infected you are very likely to be infected yourself, where "long enough" depends on many factors, including virus variants. Of course we could use the Chinese approach, anyone infected is removed from family and put in a ward. It reduces spread effectively, but at a high social cost.

For the rest of us facemasks and vaccines have the best cost/benefit. Wearing masks have very low costs, so even with moderate benefits they are cost-effective. Vaccines are fairly cheap as well, and very effective. The Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine was cheap, but sadly not very effective.  Pfizer is about $15 a dose, Moderna $25. In the West the cost of nurses and overhead is likely comparable. Still, less than $100/year is cheap compared with other alternatives, both in terms of lost productivity and in health costs. Remote work and school is very costly (otoh, it has advanced the underlying techs considerably).

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1346
If you say so; more specifically, if you say extreme social distancing is what works... But how long can this practice be maintained?

What we've seen here in the States is the typical seasonal patterns, like the flu. Compare, for example, Florida and New York.

I suppose if mask wearing makes people feel safer, that's benefit enough? (This last summer I saw people out riding their bicycles alone wearing masks; and people driving alone, too.)
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1347
Wearing masks have very low costs, so even with moderate benefits they are cost-effective. Vaccines are fairly cheap as well, and very effective.
For vulnerable adults, certainly. For children, not so much; and the time available to gather data about long-term effects of the vaccines themselves on less-mature subjects is frighteningly short, no?
(And IIRC, the mRNA vaccines are a newly deployed technology.)
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

  • Frenzie
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Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1348
I understand your point, except for the first part: "The progression is whatever we want it to be." Evolution works its wiles whether we wish it or no.
The numbers in the US since roughly June are a choice.

The way most of Europe reasons about the choice is not dissimilar to what you say, but you left out one crucial factor: the capacity of intensive care and hospitals in general. Every time COVID is too high, other care has to be shut down unless it's urgent.

(This last summer I saw people out riding their bicycles alone wearing masks; and people driving alone, too.)
You're implying people are being silly wearing any mask whatsoever outside of the exact confines you deem appropriate, but if you're just a couple minutes in between different things it's easier to just keep it on.

Seriously, I can't believe you're making me defend those dreadful things.

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: What's Going on in the Americas?
Reply #1349
but you left out one crucial factor: the capacity of intensive care and hospitals in general. Every time COVID is too high, other care has to be shut down unless it's urgent.
I agree such has occurred. But not recently (that I know of). What happens when the mandates fail to have any noticeable effect?
You're implying people are being silly wearing any mask whatsoever outside of the exact confines you deem appropriate
Not really. Are you assuming a nebulous fog of covid persisting, roaming about in the open air and sunshine?
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)