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Topic: NATO nonsense (Read 40850 times)

  • rjhowie
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NATO nonsense
What a bunch of cold war creation NATO is. It should have been got rid of when the Warsaw Pact lot went. Now troops funnelled into Poland and the Baltic States. When did Russia indicate it wanted to invade the Baltics or Poland? And that clown who is the person in charge of NATO was on television saying how united everyone was. Yet the President of France said publicly that there is no problem with Putin or Russia re France. Greece and Italy said similar - so much for the so-called unity. And the President of the USA came on moaning about how most of the NATO members are NOT spending 2% of their GDP on military.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • Belfrager
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Re: NATO nonsense
Reply #250
Even if the U.S. deserts NATO, a core of European nations  would continue it. Begrudgingly, perhaps; but competently.
European best defense - the enemy thinks we are competent.
Let's hope God keeps it that way.
A matter of attitude.

  • rjhowie
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Re: NATO nonsense
Reply #251
Ill passingly say this Oakdale and that is that Russia is still the largest country in the world and has a  commercial growth potential.

Prior to the 1st World War the US President stated that if Russia kept going the way it was with such an increase in productivity and growth within about twenty or so years be the most advanced commercially on Earth. Didn't matter when Russia imperial or under the Red thugs or today after Communism collapsed each of those three we in the West had a negative so sill being head-banging ridiculous.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: NATO nonsense
Reply #252
a  commercial growth potential.
Only if Biden wins...
we in the West had a negative so sill being head-banging ridiculous
Speak for your own wee nation. The U.S. is still doing fine, and if Trump wins again I expect we'll do better still!
Heck, we could even afford to stay in NATO... Speaking of which (I know: Off Topic!), Your lot down south and the French still make airplanes? I'd hate to see NATO forces stuck with the over-priced and finicky F-35s.

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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

  • Frenzie
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  • Administrator
Re: NATO nonsense
Reply #253
Speaking of which (I know: Off Topic!), Your lot down south and the French still make airplanes?
Plenty of fighter jets being made in Europe. The Eurofighter Typhoon is probably the main one, although that one has been argued to be quite a lot of compromises in being multifunctional. Belgium's opted for F-35As though, mainly due to a supposedly lower price.

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: NATO nonsense
Reply #254
At US $78 to $101 million per? (I've obviously not kept up with the market for such!) :)
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

  • Frenzie
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  • Administrator
Re: NATO nonsense
Reply #255
The Typhoon has a similar price. When you're buying 50-100 of the things a million more or less means a free plane. :P

  • rjhowie
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Re: NATO nonsense
Reply #256
Would say your country did well under Trump for some time on job providing but there are dear Oakdale and military a big thing as spend so much on that. However how is it the tens of millions bad off and on food stamps don't get reduced?
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: NATO nonsense
Reply #257
how is it the tens of millions bad off and on food stamps don't get reduced?
War has always been a state's dearest expense, RJ! Even in feudal times, the the Seven Years' cost everyone sums that couldn't be called tidy. (You might know it better -as might I-as the French and Indian War...) Were it not for the earlier introduction of the Peruvian tuber called "potato" the Prussian peasantry might have perished from the earth.
Imagine all the flute concerti we'd have lost!

(You do that your "knowledge" of America's poor is -well- poor! :) I dare say that as a proportion of the nation's population the U.S.A.'s is smaller the Scotland's... Would you check for me, Howie?)
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

  • jax
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  • Global Moderator
Re: NATO nonsense
Reply #258
The aerospace industry is pretty large in Europe as it is in the US. Same issues too. Concentration on ever-fewer companies, and the question whether fighter airplanes are becoming the aircraft carriers of future wars (extremely expensive, of limited utility, potentially vulnerable, but great at projecting force).

  • rjhowie
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Re: NATO nonsense
Reply #259
You are skipping things Oakdale!

Does not matter a hoot which of the big two commercial parties in power tens of millions of poor and so on - doesn't change a dashed bit but massive amounts on military and considering half the world military expense is the USA tut, tut.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: NATO nonsense
Reply #260
You are skipping things Oakdale!
I am not! I know this dance*, and so should you! Pretending that the world consists of only social workers and nurses (...I can't he'p m'sef' guys: The gals we'd all court would probably not accept our woo!) I'm not claiming they -those I'll mention shortly- are beneath me. I'm just saying that it takes a certain kind of man to make and keep a comfortable acquaintance with hookers, whores, gold-diggers and ball-busters. To maintain a relationship with one takes a special kind of man... And who among us is that certain? That special?
International relations are similar, no? :)
Howie, you don't seem to woo...
Although you confess a discerning appreciation of the fairer sex, your noted exploits are gentlemanly but distant... (Bobby, girls like to get close! See if I'm wrong.)
But if you won't: Is it lack of enthusiasm? Your vigor or valor vitiated? Google tells me some common synonyms of vitiate are corrupt, debase, debauch, deprave, and pervert. While all these words mean "to cause deterioration or lowering in quality or character," vitiate implies a destruction of purity, validity, or effectiveness by allowing entrance of a fault or defect.
What I suspect is that you tried "Woo! Woo!" and they thought you were a train aficionado! So, you took up a hobby!

(Is it even possible to carry my original metaphor through to the conclusion I made? :) Unlikely, I think! But also, it's quite unlikely than anyone other than the likes of me would even consider it...  :jester:  :troll:  :alien:  :devil:  )

* It's a square dance! More than four corners is likely to lead to a general commotion... In context, a conflagration.
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

  • rjhowie
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Re: NATO nonsense
Reply #261
I have given four women in my life the great value (as it of course!). Heavens even had one I was going with and she had a female  friend wished it was her with me  :D  :blush:
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • ersi
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Re: NATO nonsense
Reply #262
Why are you guys not permaliking the above post? :)

  • rjhowie
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Re: NATO nonsense
Reply #263
Maybe when you get to leaving school things will be better for you!
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • ersi
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Re: NATO nonsense
Reply #264
Russia demands NATO roll back from East Europe and stay out of Ukraine
Quote
https://www.reuters.com/world/russia-unveils-security-guarantees-says-western-response-not-encouraging-2021-12-17/
Moscow handed over its proposals to the United States this week as tensions rose over the Russian troop build-up near Ukraine.

It says it is responding to what it sees as threats to its own security from Ukraine's increasingly close relations with NATO and aspirations to become an alliance member, even though there is no imminent prospect of Kyiv being allowed to join.

The Russian proposals were set out in two documents - a draft agreement with NATO countries and a draft treaty with the United States, both published by the foreign ministry.

The first, among other points, would require Russia and NATO not to deploy additional troops and weapons outside the countries where they were in May 1997 - before the accession to NATO of any of the former communist states in East Europe that for decades were dominated by Moscow. It would mean NATO abandoning any military activities in Ukraine, Eastern Europe, the Caucasus and Central Asia.

[...]

Some Western political analysts suggested Russia was knowingly presenting unrealistic demands which it knew would not be met to provide a diplomatic distraction while maintaining military pressure on Ukraine.

"Something is very wrong with this picture, the pol(itical) side appears to be a smokescreen," Michael Kofman, a Russia specialist at Virginia-based research organization CNA, wrote on Twitter.

Sam Greene, professor of Russian politics at King's College London, said President Vladimir Putin was "drawing a line around the post-Soviet space and planting a 'keep out' sign".

"It's not meant to be a treaty: it's a declaration," he said. "But that doesn't necessarily mean this is a prelude to war. It's a justification for keeping Moscow's hair-trigger stance, in order to keep Washington and others off balance."