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Topic: The "New" Cold War… (Read 7399 times)

  • OakdaleFTL
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The "New" Cold War…
I'm pretty sure the Russian Federation will be the first major country to "release" its UFO files to the public... Soon, they'll have no credibility left, without relying on the lunatic fringe.
But Canada and Great Britain have made steps in this direction. Hm.

How much can we actually blame on extra- terrestrials? (Ya'll can leave the politics out and just talk about ETs... :) )
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
No one listens to me as much as I do and even I have my limits...
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: The "New" Cold War…
Reply #25
I remember so much from back then that I'm going to watch the ComicCon show... :) Just good (almost) clean fun!

Is there a Russian comics culture...?

OK. Ten minutes in, I've changed my mind. (ETs have taken over, and they're really dullards... :) )
  • Last Edit: 2016-07-24, 05:51:59 by OakdaleFTL
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
No one listens to me as much as I do and even I have my limits...
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman

  • krake
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Re: The "New" Cold War…
Reply #26
I'm pretty sure the Russian Federation will be the first major country to "release" its UFO files to the public... Soon, they'll have no credibility left, without relying on the lunatic fringe.
You're wrong OakdaleFTL. The Russian Federation won't be the first major country to "release" its UFO files to the public. ;)
CIA releases thousands of declassified 'X-files' on aliens, flying saucers and other unexplained phenomena
Wonder if it helped to improve credibility.  :rolleyes:

  • rjhowie
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Re: The "New" Cold War…
Reply #27
You overlook colonel the reason why the headshrinkers are big business in your own place boy. And the way the palce is run and so many in desperation. The Cold War thinking set are hand in glove with the money barons and indeed corporate military business. It has always been the opportunity for the young to be hopeful but unfortunately where you live it is twice the challenge.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: The "New" Cold War…
Reply #28
I could agree with you more, Howie, if Russia itself had been more innocent lately. Maybe the old Cold Warrior Putin himself wants to a new Cold War. This gives him all the reason he needs to continue to build Russia's armed forces even as the economy crumbles as shown by this graph.
"What kind of man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter."
― Terry Pratchett, Going Postal

  • rjhowie
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Re: The "New" Cold War…
Reply #29
I am afraid you are very wrong in your assumption that Putin wants a cold war thinking. It has been the West led by you-know-who. Your country has this built-in assumption that is is greater than everywhere else and has a right to be the global corporate and military thinking. Out of that has come hundreds of military bases with the ridiculous excuse of protection of interests. The Russia Federation is a capitalist based one may I remind and because it is so big the US led lot do not like having anywhere in the world where they cannot be in charge. So because Putin and Russia (a very proud nation as it happens) refuses to be controlled it is the US led propaganda that has created the present situation.

So many minds across the Atlantic are so easy to brain hence the ant-Russian rhetoric that goes on. The West is creating n immoral situation and it is ridiculous. Considering the influence of Re China on your economics you would be better trying to be more principled on that direction tan falsely bashing the bear. Try spending time and money on the tens of millions of your country men and women who re suffering whilst military and corporate control of the world comes before them.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • jax
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  • Global Moderator
Re: The "New" Cold War…
Reply #30
Methinks you are underestimating the power of the stupidity of some of our voters. Look at the ancient motherland; they just left your EU. WTF was that all about?

Which ancient mother are we talking here? The only region that has left the EU to date is Greenland.

Britain is talking about doing it, with some trepidation and placid sense of urgency. After the British isles actually became islands about 8000 years ago they haven't been seen as motherland or particularly ancient by other Europeans, rather Britain has been the landing ground, or attempted such, by Romans, Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Norse, French, Spanish, Dutch, and Germans. Arguably Britain could be seen as the ancient motherland of a historically important subset of Americans.

Since you seem to refer to Krake, he would have to determine which mothers he would like to recognise. I don't think he's a good Preussian like @Macallan but linguistically Proto-German seems to have been spoken initially in some vicinity of Denmark, and Proto-Indo-European in the Ukraine (hypothesis in ascendancy) or Turkey (supported by some stalwarts). Genetically migration to Europe (and Germany) seems to have come in three major waves, but expect many revisions to the hypotheses in the decades to come. Plenty mothers to choose from, but none of them leaving the EU, and @krake in particular seems opposed to Ukraine and Turkey even joining the EU.

  • rjhowie
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Re: The "New" Cold War…
Reply #31
Someone should have explained slowly to the colonel that Gt Britain was not in a thing like the US of A. And on top of that if a State in nutjob land voted to get out - they wouldn't with tanks on the streets!

Midnight I would remind you that the new "Cold War" was started by you lot and the rest of the West just bowed and came along. Any country the USA cannot dominate economically and in other ways becomes an enemy in whatever way it suits. Because of the long anti-Russian stuff in the days of the old Soviet Union it was easy to educate the kindergarten minds over there as the propaganda is clever and well pushed. When Russia became a capitalist State but would not knuckle under to your corporate empire the propaganda experts took over across the pond. No doubt due to the previous mind controlling in America in USSR days it was easy to re-do such.  Putin is not an idiot and very much obvious as clever and well educated. A time ago I said I had watched and listened to him being interviewed by around half a dozen top journalists in a tv studio room and he was very clever. When he does the annual much bigger public interviews in front of a big audience he needs no notes or anything and proves it. You just fall easily into the braining you lot get by your politicians and the big corporate media.

Had Russia just succumbed to the greed of US corporates oh what a difference we would have got at such a wonderful place and leader! Other places that do not give in to US control an big business either get de-stabilised or an excuse to invade but as that cannot be done to the Russian Federation the old propaganda goons in America control the thinking. Your country is acting like a plonker.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • Belfrager
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Re: The "New" Cold War…
Reply #32
Putin is not an idiot
No he isn't.
Anyone defending him is.
A matter of attitude.

  • ersi
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Re: The "New" Cold War…
Reply #33
Arguably Britain could be seen as the ancient motherland of a historically important subset of Americans.
In the context of EU, that's what Britain unarguably is, but they themselves don't present it this way. Cameron said something about Britain being a good European and that's why Britain must leave, which sounds like Europeans are not very good Europeans and that's why he lets us have our EU.

From this side of La Manche they always looked like a fifth wheel in EU. No idea why anyone let them whiny bragging hagglers join in the first place. They comply with the rules even less than Greeks.

By the way, didn't you say in another thread something like that nations don't exist?

  • jax
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  • Global Moderator
Re: The "New" Cold War…
Reply #34
That's a point. Britain is the fairy godmother of EU, more than any other country they shaped the EU we have today. If it hadn't been for Britain there would have been no EU.

I never said nations don't exist, I believe I called them "an idea, an ideal". Those things are very real, but in an abstract. The nation is what you lie down and think about, the city is where you act. (Or more rarely: in the countryside, wilderness or at sea, but not only are the ones in the countryside far off the cities a shrinking minority, their economic output is even much smaller. For those the economy is even more local, with even less trade and interaction with the outside, the minuscule number of seafarers aside.)

Nations are also real in concrete terms, try crossing most national borders without a passport. But "Sweden" or "USA" or "China" is not where the economic activity is, it is in the Stockholm region, Gothenburg region, Malmö-Copenhagen, Boston-Washington, Great Lakes, Sacramento-San Jose, Beijing-Tianjin (JingJinJi/Bohai Rim), Suzhou-Shanghai-Hangzhou, Guangzhou-Shenzhen-Hong Kong (Pearl River City).

Or people in commute distance from people. Since "commute distance" and "people" are flexible terms the borders of these cities or areas are fluid as well. Most of these have a dominant city, bigger and more influential than the others, a few lack these and an obvious centre.

It is easy enough to track the history of these nations, it's basically one of conquest. In the case of Sweden the Svea tribe and kingdom (centered around Uppsala, Stockholm and Copenhagen are later inventions, based on a need for better seats of trade) beat the other kingdoms, and the kingdoms of Norway and Denmark as well, to form today's Sweden (with a policy to subjugate all the lands around the Baltic Sea, which they were quite successful with for a couple royal reigns). Even as the dynastic border around "Sweden" expanded, the economy was still local.

  • rjhowie
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Re: The "New" Cold War…
Reply #35
Imagine that comment from a Portuguese on Putin when you think of the decades Portugal lapped up Dr Salazar?
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • Belfrager
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Re: The "New" Cold War…
Reply #36
Britain is the fairy godmother of EU, more than any other country they shaped the EU we have today.
That's the biggest lie I ever heard.
EU is the result of a French and German plan. French to stay with agriculture and Germans to stay with industry, all over Europe.
Britain was in to play the American interest in destroying the EU and, specially, the Euro.
Their time finished so they return to their American masters.

I believe you live in Mars. Subsidized by the Chinese or something alike.
A matter of attitude.

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: The "New" Cold War…
Reply #37
Britain was in to play the American interest in destroying the EU and, specially, the Euro.
I've always like this line of argument: "You won't play my game, so you're playing against me!"
GB didn't join the Euro, so -when and if it fails (Portugal, Italy, Greece and Spain have reasonable complaints, against their own politicians)- they can blame GB...
Why not blame New Zealand? :) They didn't join the common currency plan, either...

Without political unity, a common currency is guaranteed to disadvantage poorer "areas". (Can they still be called "countries"? :) ) What happened -and continues to happen- is the result of a foolish belief that European solidarity would overcome national interests...
Sad, I know. Specially since we all (well -- you all! :) ) speak Esperanto now!
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
No one listens to me as much as I do and even I have my limits...
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman

  • krake
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Re: The "New" Cold War…
Reply #38
Without political unity, a common currency is guaranteed to disadvantage poorer "areas".
It doesn't happen often but this time I tend to agree with you - almost.
However, I'm slightly correcting your above statement:
Without political unity and a common fiscal policy, a common currency is guaranteed to fail.

The problem is that a common fiscal policy can't have regards for different economic developments. Interest rates (higher or lower) should manage economies and monetary equilibrium during a given time frame whereas the EU joins countries with several national economies at different conditions. Alas mission impossible.
Add to the above "Free Trade" among countries with different degrees of industrialization. It will act like poison for less industrialized countries depriving them of any protectionist measure to keep their local industry and workstations alive. While it means profit and expansion for the one it can lead to masked slavery for the other.

Alan Greenspan predicted no future for the €. So far he proved to be wrong but I wouldn't underestimate present and upcoming risks...
What happened -and continues to happen- is the result of a foolish belief that European solidarity would overcome national interests...
Nope. Nobody was so naive. European solidarity or rather European need might help to homogenize those national interests.
Sad, I know. Specially since we all (well -- you all! :) ) speak Esperanto now!
I can't tell for others but I'm speaking a few languages and Esperanto is definitive not among them.

  • Belfrager
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Re: The "New" Cold War…
Reply #39
GB didn't join the Euro, so -when and if it fails (Portugal, Italy, Greece and Spain have reasonable complaints, against their own politicians)- they can blame GB...
Who's blaming GB? I just said what any European specialist knows, GB's role for American strategy and you answered nothing to deny it.

Without political unity, a common currency is guaranteed to disadvantage poorer "areas". (Can they still be called "countries"?  :)  ) What happened -and continues to happen- is the result of a foolish belief that European solidarity would overcome national interests...
Only an immense degree of naivety would believe in that.

Since you seem to not have any idea about reality maybe is good to you to know that "poor areas" in Europe means, as in the case of  Portugal, to have a GDP bigger than more than 50% of the American States. So, think again about poverty and health distribution.

The EU was about to create a flourishing single market of 500 million consumers based in a solid currency as the Euro.
What happens it's simply the fights for dominate such market. Like all "free-markets" it has an owner.

I can't tell for others but I'm speaking a few languages and Esperanto is definitive not among them.
For Oakdale we all should speak the same language if we were really united. That's the American problem seeing the world at their own image. Since the world doesn't behaves as they think it should, they export their own with Hollywood.
  • Last Edit: 2016-08-25, 12:08:55 by Belfrager
A matter of attitude.

  • Frenzie
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  • Administrator
Re: The "New" Cold War…
Reply #40
I can't tell for others but I'm speaking a few languages and Esperanto is definitive not among them.
I (or rather my wife) do have an early review copy of Bridge of Words lying around. It sounds kind of interesting, although probably not interesting enough to actually make time for.

  • jax
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  • Global Moderator
Re: The "New" Cold War…
Reply #41
Britain was in to play the American interest in destroying the EU and, specially, the Euro.
I've always like this line of argument: "You won't play my game, so you're playing against me!"
GB didn't join the Euro, so -when and if it fails (Portugal, Italy, Greece and Spain have reasonable complaints, against their own politicians)- they can blame GB...

I, like Krake, would agree with you this time. The Euro is one of the EU projects Britain didn't instigate (or undermine), though they did an quarter-hearted attempt of joining.  

De Gaulle had a point when he vetoed Britain as a member of the EEC. Britain changed the whole trajectory of the EU. When they got in they insisted Greece should be a a member too, and since then been a consistent supporter of EU enlargement. They have also been proponents of the EU as a market, with free movement of people and money, eschewing the more federal vision of the founder nations, a tightly integrated club of Western European countries. The irony is that all the reasons Brexiteers came up with for leaving the EU were those things Britain had pushed for in the EU. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37iHSwA1SwE


  • Belfrager
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Re: The "New" Cold War…
Reply #42
Add to the above "Free Trade" among countries with different degrees of industrialization. It will act like poison for less industrialized countries depriving them of any protectionist measure to keep their local industry and workstations alive. While it means profit and expansion for the one it can lead to masked slavery for the other.
That was always the objective and still is.
The way of doing it was to pay (called structural funds). The funny part is that after benefiting with peripherical economies destruction, now they want they money back.

With GB's exit, Italy now turns the third biggest economy after Germany and France. That's an important factor since it moves the center of decisions more to the South. It's the right time for a Southern common front against the Anglo Saxon continued assault.
A matter of attitude.

  • krake
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Re: The "New" Cold War…
Reply #43
Add to the above "Free Trade" among countries with different degrees of industrialization. It will act like poison for less industrialized countries depriving them of any protectionist measure to keep their local industry and workstations alive. While it means profit and expansion for the one it can lead to masked slavery for the other.
That was always the objective and still is.
So, so. Since it was always so how comes that none of your bright decision makers didn't knew it from the beginning?
Nobody was forcing you neither to join the union nor to adopt a currency you can't afford.
It was fascinating to fill the pockets with structural funds (which b.t.w. nobody is asking you to pay back) and to lend cheap money. Wasn't it?
What you are charged with is the mountain of debt your corrupt elites accumulated afterwards.
The European Union is neither the incarnation of Mother Theresa nor is it the holly cow you can milk forever.
With GB's exit, Italy now turns the third biggest economy after Germany and France. That's an important factor since it moves the center of decisions more to the South. It's the right time for a Southern common front against the Anglo Saxon continued assault.
Dream on dear Bel. :)
Making decisions with empty pockets? You must be kidding.
Only thing they could do is to create an union of the bankrupts. Than you could lend money from Italy, Spain, Greece or vice versa. You could also help each other to fix your economies. However don't expect Middle and Northern Europe to be part of such an union. ;)
   

  • ersi
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Re: The "New" Cold War…
Reply #44
I can't tell for others but I'm speaking a few languages and Esperanto is definitive not among them.
I (or rather my wife) do have an early review copy of Bridge of Words lying around. It sounds kind of interesting, although probably not interesting enough to actually make time for.
If not for a book, you might have time for a webpage about Esperanto http://www.xibalba.demon.co.uk/jbr/ranto/ The critique is devastating, in my opinion. When I first encountered Esperanto, I instantly came up with some of the same objections.

  • Belfrager
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Re: The "New" Cold War…
Reply #45
The European Union is neither the incarnation of Mother Theresa nor is it the holly cow you can milk forever.
Oh yes it is. You'll keep on paying, you have no other option when wanting to play the powerful and you need desperately to play the powerful. :)
You don't sent the money and bye bye 300 million consumers.
All the rest of your "economic" theories, debts and deficits, are just meaningless words. To be powerful in Europe either you pay with blood or you pay with money.

Making decisions with empty pockets? You must be kidding.
It's an Art. It seems we're doing it just fine. Strange empty pockets that buys so much of your BMWs...
You should theorize less and get back to the factory for producing more. After all that's all you know about life. :)

Until now, I think Germany is performing well at their plan to conquer Europe but it would be very ironic if you act as an avaricious...
Come on, don't be afraid of spending the money, if it can be bought then it's not expensive.
You should had learn it when you tried to conquer with cannons.
A matter of attitude.

  • Frenzie
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  • Administrator
Re: The "New" Cold War…
Reply #46
If not for a book, you might have time for a webpage about Esperanto http://www.xibalba.demon.co.uk/jbr/ranto/ The critique is devastating, in my opinion. When I first encountered Esperanto, I instantly came up with some of the same objections.
Doesn't really seem to be the same subject at all. :) But actually it's much easier to read a book than a webpage. The point is simply that there is so much else of interest.

The idea of Esperanto is mildly interesting, but the execution has always left me cold. It's basically reinvented English, except more Czech/Polish/Italian than Saxon/French. Except English managed to discard some phonemes along the way for clarity.

  • ersi
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Re: The "New" Cold War…
Reply #47
If not for a book, you might have time for a webpage about Esperanto http://www.xibalba.demon.co.uk/jbr/ranto/ The critique is devastating, in my opinion. When I first encountered Esperanto, I instantly came up with some of the same objections.
Doesn't really seem to be the same subject at all. :)
If the book is about Esperanto (distinguished from the idea of any kind of international artificial constructed language, using Esperanto as a general denominator), then it's somewhat about the same thing. I looked up the book's description and it focuses on the social ideas, so the emphasis is different, but if it's about the language by Zamenhof, then it's not about a whole different subject.

But actually it's much easier to read a book than a webpage.
I've lately saved some long webpages as PDF's to load them onto ereader. Works, if you take time with the settings upon saving.

The idea of Esperanto is mildly interesting, but the execution has always left me cold. It's basically reinvented English, except more Czech/Polish/Italian than Saxon/French. Except English managed to discard some phonemes along the way for clarity.
Reinvented Greek/Italian/Belorussian rather. A very questionable mix. Anybody who takes a cursory look would come up with some easy improvements within minutes. Because it's technically incompetent like this, I would be cautious about the social ideas behind it too.

  • Belfrager
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Re: The "New" Cold War…
Reply #48
There's no need for Esperanto, lousy English fits perfectly the role.
A "language" with no more than two thousand native words fits perfectly international communications.
A matter of attitude.

  • jax
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  • Global Moderator
Re: The "New" Cold War…
Reply #49
"Native words"? I assume by that, and your count, you don't count words with an origin to be "true" English. You wouldn't find many words in Portugese without Latin, Celtic, Gothic, Arab, English... origin. Even "new" words usually have an origin.