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Topic: What's Going on in China? (Read 47446 times)

  • jax
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  • Global Moderator
What's Going on in China?
What is happening in China, the mainland, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Macao, and with Chinese overseas?

  • Belfrager
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Re: What's Going on in China?
Reply #200
The one child policy had minimal demographic effects, its expected partial repeal will have much less.

And that was the best you have to say about a moral crime...
No one has legitimacy to prevent people having the number of children they want to.
F**k the "demographics".

There's nothing more irritating than people always arguing with abstract pseudo concepts in order to destroy real people lives.
Typicall of leftists and amoral capitalists as well.

Sometimes I disagree very much with you. Wich of course is good for a discussion forum.
A matter of attitude.

Re: What's Going on in China?
Reply #201
Trends in population decline have been ongoing for decades, so the change in government policy is unlikely to have much of an effect.

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Chinese families have been getting smaller for decades and not just because of the country's reviled family planning policies. Before the 1950s, the average household in China had more than 5.3 people. But the report shows that number dropping to 3.02 in 2012 from 3.96 in 1990. Since 2000, the decrease in birth rates has not been the primary driver of the shrinking family size, with geographic mobility and changes in social mores playing bigger roles.

Three demographics increasingly stand out: unmarried young workers, couples who have delayed or foregone childbirth, and elderly empty-nesters. One hundred sixty million Chinese households, or 40 percent of the nationwide total, now consist only of one or two people. In the decade between 2000 and 2010, when urbanization was at full throttle, the number of solo households doubled and the number of two-member households increased by 68 percent, according to the report.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2014-05-22/opinion/ct-china-family-smaller-perspec-0522-20140522_1_family-planning-commission-development-report-chinese
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No one has legitimacy to prevent people having the number of children they want to.
F**k the "demographics".

Tell that to the Chinese government. You may not want to pay taxes, but the Portuguese government may have something to say about it.

Your argument sounds very "Popish".

  • Belfrager
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Re: What's Going on in China?
Reply #202
Your argument sounds very "Popish".

It means sounding very right.
A matter of attitude.

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: What's Going on in China?
Reply #203
Some people absolutely require an Authority Figure, to support their opinions; else, they'd have to -you know!- think and learn... It's just too much trouble; plus, you then have to convince those who disagree with your views that you're right. Why bother with all that, when you can pick a big Kahuna and say he says whatever? You win!

But I do have a problem with the contention that China's One Child policy had no demographic effects... That's just too counter-intuitive.
(Consider mating habits, household economies, sexual predation and deviation...)
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
No one listens to me as much as I do and even I have my limits...
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman

  • jax
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  • Global Moderator
Re: What's Going on in China?
Reply #204
No effect is an exaggeration, but the effect is a very minor one compared with the other factors: better health, better  education, access to birth control,  urbanisation...  Even with the one-child policy China has a total fertility rate of about 1.4, the highest in East Asia. We can take from that that Japan,  the Koreas, Taiwan, Hong Kong  needed no such policy to  get fewer children,  that the one-child policy de facto has been a two-child policy,  and that while Chinese women and men have been relatively fertile,  the number is still below the  replacement rate. And there's this.

The policy probably had its greatest effect in the early years when people were less healthy,  less wealthy, less educated, more rural than now. That was also when it was at its most brutal.

  • Belfrager
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Re: What's Going on in China?
Reply #205
No effect is an exaggeration, but the effect is a very minor one compared with the other factors: better health, better  education, access to birth control,  urbanisation...

What all that matters if, by law, you can't have more than one children?
What all that matters against the abuse of the State restricting how many children you want to have?
That's the problem, let's stop diverging.

China is an abortion and homicidal State. A nightmare against human dignity.
A matter of attitude.

  • jax
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  • Global Moderator
Re: What's Going on in China?
Reply #206
You seem to enjoy dis/cussing so much you don't even need someone to discuss with. I can't recall anyone in this thread finding this policy commendable  (but if you read comments on this topic elsewhere on the Webyou will many Westerners on right and left side of the aisle who applaud it, and they are quite aggressive about it too).

OaklandFTL enquired whether it was functional, that's not the same as an endorsement. The same goes for enforced sterilisation,  or sterilisation without informed consent, something among others India,  Scandinavia,  and the US has done in the past.

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: What's Going on in China?
Reply #207
Poverty can and will lead to perverse reactions from governments... Specially, dealing with demographic pressures. That's one of the reasons I applaud the only system of economics known to dramatically produce wealth.
If China overtakes the U.S. or Europe as an economic powerhouse, I won't feel bad about it: China will then have become proficient in creating wealth.
(Note: Wealth that is restricted to elites -especially, political elites- doesn't really count. For example, Saudi Arabia cannot provide an example for a better future... What of the many sub-Saharan African nations? I worry.)

As jax said, my nation at one time promoted "preventative" sterilization*; it now offers, by law, abortion-on-demand... Belfrager, I agree with you that these are perverse policies. Morally.
But as you must know, governments don't always act in moral ways. (To make matters worse: The current Pope seems more than a little confused, about what is moral.) What China had to deal with, decades ago and still, is a very difficult problem... Europe faced something similar, and found the good enough answer in perpetual war.
While it's true that China's stop-gap was akin to every progressive proscription they bought themselves some time...
(I doubt that many Chinese think that the Cultural Revolution was a great success, either.)

I know, Bel, this question will offend you but I'm going to ask it anyway: How many children does Pope Francis have?
(Doesn't it say in Genesis, "Go forth and multiply"...? Didn't he read that part? :) )
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• A Supreme Court justice opined -in writing!- that "three generations of idiots [were] enough"! And he's still an idol, of the progressive Left!
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
No one listens to me as much as I do and even I have my limits...
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman

Re: What's Going on in China?
Reply #208
(Doesn't it say in Genesis, "Go forth and multiply"...? Didn't he read that part?  :)  )

That was all about math...multiply and divide, add and subtract. But...
http://www.historyandheadlines.com/vatican-city-orgy-50-prostitutes-entertain-papal-palace/

  • Belfrager
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Re: What's Going on in China?
Reply #209
You seem to enjoy dis/cussing so much you don't even need someone to discuss with.

Kind of speaking alone in the streets but in a writing way? :)
You're wrong, I'm just an humble content creator producing material to you to play with, what I think i's a different mater.

Anyway, it made you touch the point: OaklandFTL enquired whether it was functional, that's not the same as an endorsement.
Killing is highly functional in fact, do we adopt it? course not. Do we do analysis about the benefits of morally wrong actions?
There's only one thing to do, to criticize it, criticize it, criticize it.

This is not discussing with myself.

Quote from: Oakdale
I know, Bel, this question will offend you but I'm going to ask it anyway: How many children does Pope Francis have?

About one thousand millions. :)
That must teach you how to interpret scriptures.
A matter of attitude.

  • rjhowie
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Re: What's Going on in China?
Reply #210
I see the President of the People's Republic of Chna and the Republic of China met in Singapore. One report said they had not described each other as President to keep a nice and friendly atmosphere.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • jax
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  • Global Moderator
Re: What's Going on in China?
Reply #211
Yes, the Communist Party and the Kuomintang/Guomindang have a good working relationship, even though they were on opposite sides in the last civil war.  But while Xi will retire in 2022 according to plans, Ma's party looks set to lose the presidency and general elections next year based on current numbers, Guomindang is trailing badly.

  • krake
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Re: What's Going on in China?
Reply #212

Quote from: Oakdale
I know, Bel, this question will offend you but I'm going to ask it anyway: How many children does Pope Francis have?

About one thousand millions. :)


I thought those were sheep. ;)
More than one thousand million of them has even Xi.

As for Pope Francis, we never will know if or how many children he has. ;)

  • rjhowie
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Re: What's Going on in China?
Reply #213
In actual practice jax the civil war is not technically over!

As for the Kuomintang being in trailing mode that has happened before at natioanl elections o the Republic of China and then the next time they bounce back. One of the problems is ahat when the nationalist Party at Taipeh loses there is an opposition who when they were in power actually raise the temperature between the 2 Chinas. They wanted to declare the islands (all of them as the Republic of Taiwan and tensions rose dramatically. There is a history context in that as Taiwan was Province of China stolen by Japan for a while and got a heavy migration when Chian Kai Shek lost the main Civil War and the remnants fled to the place. In time they tended to dominate. At least in the wee China there are political parties and freedoms which is more than can be said for the big brother over the Straits.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • Frenzie
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  • Administrator
Re: What's Going on in China?
Reply #214

  • jax
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  • Global Moderator
Re: What's Going on in China?
Reply #215
Got out of Beijing just before this one, as did a couple families on the same plane to Zhuhai (near Macau). The husbandfolks shipped their wives, children and parents to Zhuhai for the winter and then returned on same plane back to Beijing to work after getting a lungful of clean South Chinese air. On the half-miserable days just before the advantages of high-rise living were clear. You look down twenty floors to gray misery at the ground level, you look ahead to see a city in poor visibility, you look up and you can see the blue sky.

Doesn't help on a bad day, as can be seen in the pictures from Shanghai. The building is over 600m/2000', 128 floors, tall and still engulfed (at least it could seem that way in the picture from ground level). On a really bad day looking out the windows is much the same as the climax of  The Demolished Man.

That particular airpocalypse had a somewhat freakish ending. Wind change pulled the pollution off-switch. From immensely polluted one day it was replaced with pure cleaner-than-Stockholm air the next. Picture on the right is December 1, picture on the left December 2 (SCMP).


Re: What's Going on in China?
Reply #216
What's going on in China? Anybody else here like Chinese food?

  • rjhowie
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Re: What's Going on in China?
Reply #217
I occasionally go to a Chines restaurant but don't eat Chines food.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: What's Going on in China?
Reply #218
That's like going to a Russian restaurant for a Big Mac.

  • rjhowie
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Re: What's Going on in China?
Reply #219
Well Russians DO got into McDonald's for a Big Mac.


On a more of course productive note I occasionally visit a very posh Chines restaurant in Glasgow city centre and I I like their traditional fish n' chips and their breast of chicken and chips. The ambience is good and the manager is an ex-Boys' Brigade Chines man from the movement in Singapore. 'Nuff said.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • Belfrager
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Re: What's Going on in China?
Reply #220
Anybody else here like Chinese food?

There's Chinese food and there's... Chinese food. I suppose western Chinese food served in restaurants is not the same food Chinese eats in China.

There's a couple of clandestine restaurants here in Lisbon (basically a Chinese person that opens his house to serve meals for a small fee) where it seems that one can experience real Chinese food. Never been there.
A matter of attitude.

  • jax
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  • Global Moderator
Re: What's Going on in China?
Reply #221
BBC made a very neat program about this year's spring festival.








Re: What's Going on in China?
Reply #222
Not in China, thank you!

Quote
No joke. April Fools' Day has been banned in China.

The ancient tradition of hoaxing and playing practical jokes on the first day of April has fallen victim to China's crackdown. Like democracy and free speech, it is a Western concept that simply isn't welcome here.

"'April Fools' Day' is not consistent with our cultural tradition, or socialist core values," state news agency Xinhua announced on social media Friday. "Hope nobody believes in rumors, makes rumors or spreads rumors."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/04/01/no-joke-april-fools-day-has-been-banned-in-china/?tid=pm_world_pop_b

  • rjhowie
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Re: What's Going on in China?
Reply #223
The Chinese are mucking up what is left of our steel industry with their deliberate low prices.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • Frenzie
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  • Administrator
Re: What's Going on in China?
Reply #224
Didn't the EU impose some kind of import tax on metals for that?