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Topic: Everything Trump… (Read 36667 times)

  • OakdaleFTL
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Everything Trump…
Too lazy to create a new thread, after earlier (IIRC) pointing out this thread has expired?
:) Yup!
But of course people need a place to vent their spleen... So, consider this an open-ended receptacle.
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
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  • ersi
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Re: Everything Trump…
Reply #275
Rush Limbaugh died.

And Trump Plaza casino and hotel was demolished in Atlantic City.



Now let the Republican Party disperse and a new party emerge left of the Democrats, the way it is in normal countries.

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: Everything Trump…
Reply #276
Now let the Republican Party disperse and a new party emerge left of the Democrats, the way it is in normal countries.
What? You don't think Kamala can carry us to Hell in her handbasket, in the time she'll have? :)

The Republican Party will re-form around the actual conservatives. (You know, those who believe in our founding principles and understand their oath to preserve and protect our constitution...) The Democrat Party will finally destroy itself... (Biden will, if he's still alive, say "Oops!" to which I'll remark: Good job, Joe!)

Did you notice, ersi, that the Dems opted for no witnesses for Trump's second impeachment trial? (Trump's lawyers threatened to put Nancy Perlosi under oath... :) )
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

  • ersi
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Re: Everything Trump…
Reply #277
The Republican Party will re-form around the actual conservatives. (You know, those who believe in our founding principles and understand their oath to preserve and protect our constitution...)
They have all turned into Trumpites. With Trump acquittal, they threw their alleged principles and constitution out of the window in the name of partisanship - for the second time. Trump led the mob to attack another branch of government - is there anything more clearly anti-constitutional than this?

There are no actual conservatives. You cannot name one.

Did you notice, ersi, that the Dems opted for no witnesses for Trump's second impeachment trial? (Trump's lawyers threatened to put Nancy Perlosi under oath... :) )
I noticed a lot more than that. Prior to Trump, Republicans had ceased to care about the constitution, law, and justice. Under Trump, they have given up any pretension of caring about plain facts too.

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: Everything Trump…
Reply #278
You've "drunk the Kool-Aid," ersi...
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
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  • ersi
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Re: Everything Trump…
Reply #279
"Drinking the Kool-Aid" is an expression used to refer to a person who believes in a possibly doomed or dangerous idea because of perceived potential high rewards.
Seems like you are not using the expression properly.

  • ersi
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Re: Everything Trump…
Reply #280
Facebook board upholds Trump ban
Four months after Facebook suspended Trump's accounts for inciting violence that led to the deadly Jan. 6 Capitol riot, the company's quasi-independent oversight board upheld the bans. But it told Facebook to specify how long they would last, saying that its "indefinite" ban on the former president was unreasonable.

[...]

The decision only "kicks the can down the road," said Jonathan Greenblatt, the head of the Anti-Defamation League, who said it highlighted the need for greater government oversight of social platforms.

Trump's own response:

What Facebook, Twitter, and Google have done is a total disgrace and an embarrassment to our Country. Free Speech has been taken away from the President of the United States because the Radical Left Lunatics are afraid of the truth, but the truth will come out anyway, bigger and stronger than ever before. The People of our Country will not stand for it! These corrupt social media companies must pay a political price, and must never again be allowed to destroy and decimate our Electoral Process.
Any comment on what "the truth" is that Trump is referring to, Oakdale?

  • Frenzie
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Re: Everything Trump…
Reply #281
Seems like you are not using the expression properly.
Or Wikipedia is wrong and in modern parlance it simply means to completely believe in a certain narrative regardless of reasoning or evidence.

That being said, all I see is reasoning that follows from the evidence, unless we're talking about minor quibbles like that Mitt Romney is actually still a proper Republican.

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: Everything Trump…
Reply #282
Hand-waving is evidence, for some...
Romney is a part of the party that used to be called Rockefeller Republicans. He's fiercely non-committal about things like the constitution... As others before him have done, he's gone to the Senate -- where he can enjoy his retirement. :)

I'm often surprised at how many otherwise intelligent people think publication (of any sort) constitutes authoritative support for usage; lexicography is necessarily empirical. Its findings are not matters of proscription, except to inveterate quibblers.
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

  • ersi
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Re: Everything Trump…
Reply #283
Documentary evidence beats your waffle any day.



Tell me there's some sort of respect for the constitution in this picture. The picture speaks for itself: If you care for the constitution, stay away from Trump!

If it must be propaganda in any case, why would an otherwise intelligent person let himself be brainwashed by Trump of all people? An intelligent person would carefully choose his propaganda, wouldn't he? Well, maybe he wasn't intelligent in the first place!

Trump derangement syndrome (TDS) is a pejorative term usually for criticism or negative reactions to former United States President Donald Trump that are perceived to be irrational, and have little regard towards Trump's actual policy positions, or actions undertaken by his administration.[2] The term has mainly been used by Trump supporters to discredit criticism of his actions, as a way of reframing the discussion by suggesting that his opponents are incapable of accurately perceiving the world.[3][1][4] Journalists have used the term to call for restraint when judging Trump's statements and actions.[5][6][7] The term has also been used by political commentator John Avlon to describe Trump supporters who are unable to accept reality, such as Trump's defeat in the 2020 election.[8]
  • Last Edit: 2021-05-06, 05:25:23 by ersi

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: Everything Trump…
Reply #284
Tell me there's some sort of respect for the constitution in this picture.
Tell me why you think those pictured are representative of the Republican Party... Your reason(s) should explain a lot.

@jax: I presume when you spoke of "science denial" earlier you meant, primarily, the (perceived-to-be mostly Republican) Americans' opinions about AGW/climate change...
When science becomes so politicized, and takes on the trappings of religious fervor -- complete with dogma and excommunication, it's not really possible to have rational discourse about it; not without "psychologizing"! (It is, however, very informative to "follow the money"!)

Or did you mean something else?
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

  • ersi
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Re: Everything Trump…
Reply #285
Tell me why you think those pictured are representative of the Republican Party... Your reason(s) should explain a lot.
Your question explains a lot about you. You think that their party affiliation is a matter of opinion - and the opinion is wrong when it is not yours :)

But in fact, it is a matter of fact. An hour earlier the bunch had been listening and yelling along to the speeches of Trump, Giuliani, etc. near the White House. Are you saying that non-supporters had come to hear the speeches? Are you saying it was not the same bunch? There's live video of the events by the participants themselves from a thousand angles!

Nah, you are never in the mood for facts. 

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: Everything Trump…
Reply #286
Have you any idea how many Republicans there are? And how many were involved in the riotous antics of January 6h at the Capitol? Your "ability" to generalize is utterly amazing! If one discounts your prejudices, pure laziness remains the only explanation... But that's what happens when statistical reasoning is relegated to propaganda and advertising: The point of accurately describing reality is subsumed by the need to sell pre-conceived ideas.
As Daniel Patrick Moynihan once famously said, "You're entitled to your opinions but you're not entitled to your own facts."
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

  • ersi
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Re: Everything Trump…
Reply #287
Have you any idea how many Republicans there are? And how many were involved in the riotous antics of January 6h at the Capitol?
You mean there are so few Republicans that the rioters could not possibly have been (all) Republicans? Nice one :up: :lol:

The question now is: Do *you* have any idea how many Republicans there are? Answer: 36 million. There are 28,000 members in the Republican Party in DC alone, but the rioters were of course from all over the country.

Another question: How many of those who are currently in jail or arrested for the riots were NOT listening to the Trump speeches and how many did NOT vote for him? Do you have any idea? Of course, you do not *want* to have any idea :lol:

The best you may mean here is that - there are 36 million Republicans, but only a tiny fraction stormed the Capitol :lol: Well, the answer to that one is: Yup, after they had just heard the speeches of their supreme leader and his closest circle, so they are a very very representative fraction!

Moreover, all along, the issue from my point is not the party affiliation, but Trumpism. You are an unmitigable Trumpite. And Trumpism and Republicanism currently go pretty much hand in hand these days, because Republican senators decided it was all fine and well to have let the president incite the riot on the Capitol, since it was the president of their own party.

As Daniel Patrick Moynihan once famously said, "You're entitled to your opinions but you're not entitled to your own facts."
Yeah, this one is so ironic it is outright painful. Have you referred me to a single fact, like, ever once? Ah, I know, you have alternative facts that are so private that you will never spell them out :)

  • Frenzie
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Re: Everything Trump…
Reply #288
And how many were involved in the riotous antics of January 6h at the Capitol?
Involved is hardly the relevant metric. Iirc some 40-50% of Republicans were polled as approving of it, and only a small minority of 10-20% thought it was actually a threat to the country and the constitution.[1]

The way it works in a country like Belgium or the Netherlands is the Trumpists have their own party. The equivalent of the Republican Party consists of three parties:[2] conservatives, liberals, and something like hard eurosceptic anti-islam anti-immigration nationalists.

The conservatives and liberals aren't unaffected by the nationalists since they don't like to lose too many votes to them. They will copy some of their at best ineffective proposals that play on racist feelings. For example, maybe 20 to 15 years ago immigration was an issue, maybe it wasn't. But whatever the case, it's back then that it was made super restrictive. Campaigning on further restrictions as if we were still living in the '90s is idiotic, and somehow the other parties either don't manage or don't care to get across how it's pretty much already impossible to migrate here.
More if you count splinter parties.

  • jax
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  • Global Moderator
Re: Everything Trump…
Reply #289
@jax: I presume when you spoke of "science denial" earlier you meant, primarily, the (perceived-to-be mostly Republican) Americans' opinions about AGW/climate change...
When science becomes so politicized, and takes on the trappings of religious fervor -- complete with dogma and excommunication, it's not really possible to have rational discourse about it; not without "psychologizing"! (It is, however, very informative to "follow the money"!)

Or did you mean something else?

There is nothing inherently reality-averse with right-wing or left-wing (or any other) politics. Of course, if reality and ideology don't match, you either have to sacrifice one or the other or the idea of consistency, which is part of reason that wingnuts tend to be nuttier. Most traditional crackpot theories, e.g. "Moon landings were fabricated by Kubrick", weren't that political. Even as late as the Opera forums in the naughties I talked about left-wing and right-wing theories. There were more of the latter, but there was a balance of sorts. 9/11 conspiracies went left and right, and anti-vaxxing used to be an ailment on the left. Happier days.

The Republican party promotes climate science denial as well as denial of other science. Unlike denying evolution this actually matters, and has harmed the US and the world, but my interest here is what damage it has done to the brain of the Republican party. You now have active QAnon proponents like Marjorie Taylor Greene and Lauren Boebert in Congress, and except for a handful Republicans nobody speaks up against lunacy that would make the Kubrick moon landing down-to-earth in comparison.

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: Everything Trump…
Reply #290
The Republican party promotes climate science denial[emphasis added]
But nowhere near as much as the Democratic party promotes "religious" devotion to a still hotly debated scientific issue. What most Republicans promote is rational policies, instead of hysterical reaction to modeled but unrealized harms and "dangers".
[...] as well as denial of other science.
Examples...?
Unlike denying evolution this actually matters, and has harmed the US and the world,
In what way has the U.S. or anyone else been harmed?
[...] but my interest here is what damage it has done to the brain of the Republican party.
Anthropomorphize all you want, the Republican party is as reasonable an organization as any.
You now have active QAnon proponents like Marjorie Taylor Greene and Lauren Boebert in Congress, and except for a handful [of] Republicans nobody speaks up against lunacy that would make the Kubrick moon landing down-to-earth in comparison.
The Dems have members who think Apollo 11 landed on Mars (or don't know the difference between the moon and Mars) and one who worried that American troops on Guam might cause the island to capsize...
You are aware that the parties don't dictate who gets enough votes to attain office, right? I'll cut the Dems some slack for their rather large number of elected buffoons, when their party allows dissent in its ranks. But -if you won't have stupid people in office- then neither democracy nor any other form of government is suitable. No? !)
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

  • ersi
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Re: Everything Trump…
Reply #291
The Dems have members who think Apollo 11 landed on Mars (or don't know the difference between the moon and Mars) and one who worried that American troops on Guam might cause the island to capsize...
It is of course absolutely stupid to not know the difference between moon and Mars and to think that an island might capsize, but there is a difference between stupid and evil.

Trump does not merely think that the elections were stolen from him. He also says so, he says so in public speeches to his supporters, and adds, "We're going to walk down [to the Capitol] and I'll be there with you..." (that's a quote, yes) and points the finger where the mob must go. That's evil, different from stupid. The issue is both evil and stupid, not simply stupid.

Why is it necessary to keep spelling out the topic for you? Why do you pretend that you never understand what this is all about? Well, maybe you are not pretending at all...

Edit: Not knowing the difference between moon and Mars does not threaten the constitution in any way. Inciting an attack against the other branch of government does. You have been trying to leave an impression that constitution is important to you, but you are getting less convincing with every post.
  • Last Edit: 2021-05-09, 06:42:59 by ersi

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: Everything Trump…
Reply #292
there is a difference between stupid and evil
I've noticed that: People you agree with can be stupid; people who don't agree with you are evil... :(

Are the Marxist BLM founders evil? Is Critical Race Theory just dumb...? (Can we talk about such here -I mean, in this thread? Of course we can: Your obsession with Trump is -- shall we say, amusing? :)
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

  • ersi
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Re: Everything Trump…
Reply #293
What? You now act offended that I brought out the *fact* that Trump is evil? Namely he posed a direct threat to the constitutional order and continues to do so as long as he keeps making speeches saying that the elections were stolen.

Look, dude, facts are not things that you can afford to disagree about. End of story. You come across as a hopeless hypocrite if you pretend you care about the constitution and at the same time think that Trump's attack against the Capitol did not even happen.

Are the Marxist BLM founders evil? Is Critical Race Theory just dumb...? (Can we talk about such here -I mean, in this thread? Of course we can...
Yes, of course we can, as soon as you demonstrate that a discussion can be had with you, i.e. that you know what you are talking about on some basic factual level. It is sincerely rather frustrating that Europeans know more about America than Americans do.
  • Last Edit: 2021-05-09, 07:17:06 by ersi

  • Frenzie
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Re: Everything Trump…
Reply #294
In what way has the U.S. or anyone else been harmed?
I realize that sidewalk cafés just reopened yesterday here in Belgium and that hospitalizations have been steadily dropping, again, here in Belgium, but I believe there are some 600,000 dead Americans and counting?

  • Belfrager
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Re: Everything Trump…
Reply #295
The American population that tried to invade the Capitol did what the still American President in functions, Mr Trump, defended or at least encouraged that they should do. They aren't guilty of anything.
It's obvious that who should had arrested President Trump accused of treason to the Constitution and the Nation it was the Army.
A matter of attitude.

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: Everything Trump…
Reply #296
Look, dude, facts are not things that you can afford to disagree about.
When mere opinions are asserted as facts, of course we can "afford" to disagree about them!
Fact 1: Trump was impeached for the "Trump attack against the Capitol".
Fact 2: Trump was acquitted...
Fact 3: Biden is president, and who-knows-who is in charge.... (Maybe someone will start a thread? :)
as soon as you demonstrate that a discussion can be had with you
You mean, as soon as I accept your opinions as the starting point of conversation? I'm not averse to that; but I won't credit such as "fact" simply because you believe it; nor because "Golly-fee, look at how many never-Trumpers believe!"
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

  • ersi
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Re: Everything Trump…
Reply #297
Look, dude, facts are not things that you can afford to disagree about.
When mere opinions are asserted as facts, of course we can "afford" to disagree about them!
Fact 1: Trump was impeached for the "Trump attack against the Capitol".
Fact 2: Trump was acquitted...
Yeah, this is what happens when you assert mere opinions as facts. Trump was acquitted based on opinion, and it was a sharply divided opinion. Maybe somebody will teach you some day what the difference is between fact and opinion, before it's too late.

Meanwhile, the facts remain.



I won't credit such as "fact" simply because you believe it; nor because "Golly-fee, look at how many never-Trumpers believe!"
The problem with you is that you do not credit facts at all. So let's try mere opinion for a moment.

Everybody in this thread (except you) has indicated that they don't care about Trump because they care about law and order - and the events of January 6, among others, indicate that Trump does not care about law and order. You, on the other hand, are all-in for Trump, while maintaining that constitutional order is good, despite the events of January 6.

Can you explain yourself by other than "the attackers of the Capitol were not representative of the Republican Party"? What are some of the good characteristics of Trump that show he is the man of the constitution? There have to be many strong such characteristics, because this thread lists many that indicate the opposite, and you, being the reasonable person here, of course have a good reason for your opinion.

Try without tripe and nonsense for once.
  • Last Edit: 2021-05-10, 05:48:57 by ersi

  • Frenzie
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Re: Everything Trump…
Reply #298
Yeah, this is what happens when you assert mere opinions as facts. Trump was acquitted based on opinion, and it was a sharply divided opinion. Maybe somebody will teach you some day what the difference is between fact and opinion, before it's too late.
And what about that brilliant legal reasoning. "But judge, I murdered the guy last month!"

  • ersi
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Re: Everything Trump…
Reply #299
Prince Andrew used a lot of this as a defence in his interview with BBC. Question (approx), "In December 2010 Epstein threw a party to celebrate his release from prison and you were invited as a guest of honour." Answer, "In 2010? Certainly there wasn't a party in December! It was a small dinner, only eight or ten of us."