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Topic: Everything Trump… (Read 40928 times)

  • OakdaleFTL
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Everything Trump…
Too lazy to create a new thread, after earlier (IIRC) pointing out this thread has expired?
:) Yup!
But of course people need a place to vent their spleen... So, consider this an open-ended receptacle.
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
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  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: Everything Trump…
Reply #300
Trump was acquitted based on opinion
You mean the House managers didn't present evidence that swayed anyone... It was -I agree- a "show trial"; but the incompetence of the prosecutors (...and their fear of exposure -- of who?) preordained the outcome.
Much the same thing happened at Trump's first impeachment trial. (Collusion between investigators, witnesses and "journalists" made most testimony too damning to present to the Senate.)
You [...] are all-in for Trump
Keep your blinders on! I have no need to be for or against Trump: He's not running for office, and his off-the-cuff opinions don't matter to me.
But his shakeup of the powers that be was long overdue. And the Biden administration's antics will reinvigorate the movement Trump spearheaded.
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

  • ersi
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Re: Everything Trump…
Reply #301
You failed to answer any of the questions. Why do you hold to the opinion that Trump is anything good in any way? You failed miserably both on facts and on opinion. Discussion cannot be had with you. So, the following is not for you anymore.

Impeachment procedure is a joke in the American constitution. It has never once worked. Well, threat of impeachment worked against Nixon, surprisingly, but the procedure itself has never once yielded the result that the wise founding fathers imagined it would. The president's position is 100% unaccountable, if the president has full determination or no conscience or both.

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: Everything Trump…
Reply #302
Why do you hold to the opinion that Trump is anything good in any way?
Because I'm not an ideologue.
What in his record as president you probably find reprehensible I find commendable. That perhaps explains why you need such vitriolic terms...for Trump, and for me.

BTW: What nation do you think has a non-joke government? :)

p.s.,
Would you do the honors, creating a Biden thread?
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

  • ersi
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Re: Everything Trump…
Reply #303
A character judgement, such as what we are passing on Trump here, should be based on a collection of behavioural facts. You are missing many important facts. Despite the pictures, videos, reporting and investigations around the events of January 6th, you have not noticed Trump directing a mob assault on the Capitol. This is a very huge fact to miss. So your judgement is not based on facts, unfortunately.

The next best option is ideology, i.e. you'd cherry-pick the facts that support your agenda and hush down other facts. But here you are claiming that you are not an ideologue. And I'd agree. An ideology would require some sense of principle, but you lack that.

So the last option is that you are simply uttering words without any meaning, even without a pretension to any meaning. Coherence is not a thing for you.

Would you do the honors, creating a Biden thread?
Would your contribution magically turn meaningful in that thread?

  • Frenzie
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Re: Everything Trump…
Reply #304
The next best option is ideology, i.e. you'd cherry-pick the facts that support your agenda and hush down other facts. But here you are claiming that you are not an ideologue. And I'd agree. An ideology would require some sense of principle, but you lack that.
I get the impression that there is a consistent ideology, which is only seemingly incoherent. Namely, as long as it somehow annoys "the Dems," it's good. Doesn't matter what it is.

Incidentally, while it's been rather obvious for quite a while now, the Trump Party has now made it official:

US Republicans have voted to oust a top lawmaker, Liz Cheney, from her leadership post over her criticism of former President Donald Trump.

The Wyoming lawmaker, daughter of ex-US Vice-President Dick Cheney, has held the third-ranking post in the House of Representatives since 2019.

On Tuesday she said her party could not stand for truth if it upheld Mr Trump's false claims he won the 2020 election.

House Republicans will probably replace her this month with a Trump loyalist.

The move is seen as a sign Mr Trump's grip on the party is stronger than ever six months after he lost the election.

Liz Cheney, like Mitt Romney and Arnold Schwarzenegger is apparently one of those remaining real Republicans - that is, someone you can respectfully agree or disagree with who doesn't bullshit about with "alternative facts" because they don't like the potential political implications of the actual facts.

  • ersi
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Re: Everything Trump…
Reply #305
I agree that anti-Dem-everything seems to be the essence of it, but this only qualifies at best as an anti-ideology, insofar as the Dems can be said to have an ideology. Otherwise it's just reactionary fumbling with no purpose in itself. They are easily self-contradictory: touting constitution and rule of law, warning of one-party rule and authoritarianism while also promoting the one whose autocracy was clear from the beginning all the way long past his election loss, bewailing the so-called cancel culture while cancelling heretics among themselves for the stupidest of reasons, etc. There is no healthy bone left in that party.

And, Oakdale, so that you don't get me wrong: I would have gladly seen Trump continue for another term and even more. It's because I do not wish well to USA at all. Trump was very effectively destroying the country, its reputation worldwide is in shambles, it was close to being locked out of global politics and economics, and I would have wanted to see that trend brought to completion and the country to implode, really. Unfortunately Biden is reconstructing everything rather swiftly.


  • Frenzie
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Re: Everything Trump…
Reply #306
Absolutely, to the first paragraph anyway. I wish the US well.

  • Frenzie
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Re: Everything Trump…
Reply #307
Incidentally, this video displays the difference between a real Republican (Andrew Neil) and an SJW cancel culture supporting virtue signaling white knight (Ben Shapiro).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VixqvOcK8E

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: Everything Trump…
Reply #308
A character judgement, such as what we are passing on Trump here [...]
is mostly beside the point, when it comes to politics and statecraft.
I do not wish well to USA at all
Quite telling, ersi.
Trump was very effectively destroying the country, its reputation worldwide is in shambles, it was close to being locked out of global politics and economics
Stock markets up to unprecedented heights, unemployment down to decades-low rates, the economy's growth rate steadily rising; non-activist judges and justices seated, border security bolstered, trade pacts renegotiated, energy sector booming... Yup, that's destruction, all right! (And that silly idea that Congress approve treaties? How dare he propose it? :) Our "reputation" after Obama/Biden/Clinton/Kerry was one of appeasement and ineffectiveness; clearly, that's what many of the world's "leaders" preferred... Oh, well.
"Global politics"? You mean appeasing Iran and China and Russia? No thanks, as long as their goals include abusing the United States...and its allies.
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

  • Frenzie
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Re: Everything Trump…
Reply #309
And yet thanks to Trump Iran has resumed its nuclear weapons program. China and Russia were salivating at the thought of more Trump.

Biden's pretty much already achieved more than Obama and Trump put together. He's even occasionally managed to make us look bad, for example with the vaccine patents, which I happen to find quite exciting. Our position as the leading power in the world was a given under Trump.

  • ersi
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Re: Everything Trump…
Reply #310
A character judgement, such as what we are passing on Trump here [...]
is mostly beside the point, when it comes to politics and statecraft.
False. Particularly in case of regimes of such autocratic potential as in USA, where you basically have a monarch in place whose only limit is the term limit, it matters at least somewhat whether the people like the ruler or not. If not for any other reason, it is important to assess how well the ruler is doing on populism. To settle the point how important character judgements are, it's a battle of source authorities in the area of politology. But you don't do such sources, so...

Stock markets up to unprecedented heights,
As you (don't) know, stock markets are mostly beside the point, when it comes to economy, certainly the kind of economy you should care about - middle class and the majority of the population. Got any dividends or return on your investments lately? Ever? Right, that's what I am saying.

unemployment down to decades-low rates,
Sure, if data does not matter to you. But let's take a look at the past 25 years below. 2008 was the global financial crisis that was started in/by USA. The 2020 spike is the covid. Between those years was a slow recovery from the global financial crisis, definitely not any particular merit of Trump's.



the economy's growth rate steadily rising;
Yep, data does not matter to you and you think economy is the stock market. Sad!

non-activist judges and justices seated,
So-called non-activists seated by rather deliberate procedural activism.

On the campaign trail and at White House events, Trump would often cite his record on judicial appointments as an example of accomplishment, while ignoring the obstructions that occurred during the Obama years.

"You know, when I got in, we had over 100 federal judges that weren't appointed," he said. "Now, I don't know why Obama left that. It was like a big, beautiful present to all of us. Why the hell did he leave that? Maybe he got complacent." Trump omitted the essential fact that McConnell had blocked Obama's nominees.

The high court vacancy at the start of Trump's term was, in essence, a gift from McConnell.
Ultimately Trump ended up fulminating against his own appointees on Twitter and in speeches because they did not rig the elections for him and thus failed to display what was really expected of them - loyalty and obedience.

border security bolstered,
Ah yes, the "beautiful" wall that partly was already there and part of what Trump built was blown over by wind. Now, it is of course fully commendable for a president to (try to) fulfil his promises. However, it was a meaningless promise to begin with. Borders simply need disciplined borderguards in order to leak less. For example, see the border between Russia and Finland which markes one of the world's sharpest standard-of-living divides - no wall, but no leaks either. Borderguards do the job.

trade pacts renegotiated,
Meaning pacts cancelled and replaced with either nothing or with worse ones - worse for the USA, specifically, which is fine by me. Initiating trade wars out of the blue for no reason and trying but failing to negotiate obnoxiously asymmetric deals with countries and blocs has rather effectively damaged the reputation of the USA on the world arena. It would have been better for everyone (else than USA) to have had a bit more of it - it was good for the world consensus.

energy sector booming...
As exemplified by the blackout in Texas? Yes, the industry made a profit on it so it's all good, right?

(And that silly idea that Congress approve treaties? How dare he propose it? :)
Name one treaty that was *not* approved by Congress, but that the USA is otherwise committed to. One will be enough to make your point. Yup, thought so.

Our "reputation" after Obama/Biden/Clinton/Kerry was one of appeasement and ineffectiveness; clearly, that's what many of the world's "leaders" preferred... Oh, well.
USA has always been bulldozing, never appeasing. During Trump, the bulldozing policy was replaced with even cockier sweeping bully attitude against everyone, failure to acknowledge existing alliances, cancelling earlier deals, disrupting relations left and right, and then failing to get any improvement (of trade balance, of diplomatic relations, anything).

"Global politics"? You mean appeasing Iran and China and Russia? No thanks, as long as their goals include abusing the United States...and its allies.
By global politics I mean the positions and trending policies of country blocs and international organisations. You of course put it in scare quotes, indicating that you do not know what global politics is. You only know US foreign relations with specific countries.

Anyway, what did Trump achieve wrt Iran, China, and Russia? Wrt Russia, he has a well-documented track record of being a pathetic Putin-worshipper. Wrt China, he replaced the workable trade deal with the current supply shortage whose expenses keep accruing swiftly on USA. Plus completely random ad-hoc tariffs and sanctions.

Wrt Iran, international community needs to find a fix to the damage caused by cancelling the nuclear deal that Iran had been following. Trump even started an outright war with Iran, but it remained very short because Iranians unluckily shot down a passenger airplane by mistake and therefore had to swiftly de-escalate the situation. Otherwise they seemed fully ready to wage war. Want a war with Iran? You lost even against Afghanistan, as recently acknowledged, so...

In summary, if Trump did so well on all these policies, why is he polling historically badly? I would say he did badly on all his policies, which can somewhat explain the polls.


Even though all your facts are obviously false or "alternative", strictly as per Trumpite talking points, it's nice that you brought facts up for a change. Without facts, there would be nothing to respond to in your posts.

  • Frenzie
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Re: Everything Trump…
Reply #311
As exemplified by the blackout in Texas? Yes, the industry made a profit on it so it's all good, right?
I was definitely tempted to comment about unreliability booming. It seems like such an odd thing to bring up. There isn't even an ineffective token effort like with the occasional negative remark about Iran or that border wall.

Edit: on second thought, the Trump administration came out with something against renewable energy on public lands because wind turbines cause cancer.[1]

Re: Everything Trump…
Reply #312
Stock markets up to unprecedented heights, unemployment down to decades-low rates, the economy's growth rate steadily rising; non-activist judges and justices seated, border security bolstered, trade pacts renegotiated, energy sector booming... Yup, that's destruction, all right! (And that silly idea that Congress approve treaties? How dare he propose it?  :)  Our "reputation" after Obama/Biden/Clinton/Kerry was one of appeasement and ineffectiveness; clearly, that's what many of the world's "leaders" preferred... Oh, well.
"Global politics"? You mean appeasing Iran and China and Russia? No thanks, as long as their goals include abusing the United States...and its allies.
Of course, the stock market has been largely divorced from the larger economy for decades and is prone to irrational exuberance and its opposite. Pre-Covid, the Trump economy was a myth. Average GDP growth was only up by .1%, while wage and job growth slowed. Of course, the deficit exploded. The "records" were a consequence of a long expansion and nothing the former assclown actually did. Trump's supressing scientific data about Covid, at times outright denying it, mocking mask wearing, peddling false cures (HCQ), etc left this country in ruins. Another four years of this jackassery would have left America a 3rd world country.
"What kind of man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter."
― Terry Pratchett, Going Postal

  • Frenzie
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Re: Everything Trump…
Reply #313
Welcome back. ;)

  • ersi
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Re: Everything Trump…
Reply #314
First felony defendant sentenced in Capitol riot, gets eight months in prison

A federal judge on Monday handed down an eight-month prison term to the first person sentenced for a felony in the Jan. 6 Capitol breach, after an hours-long hearing that included arguments over whether the sentence would further divide the country, deter future attacks against the government or lead hundreds of others charged to plead guilty or face trial.

[...]

Hodgkins expressed remorse and regret for his actions, any damage they caused "and the way the country I love has been hurt." He said he understood that even the presence of participants who, like him, remained peaceful "may have helped embolden others to carry out the destruction that occurred."

"I do not and will not make any excuse, nor will I place any blame on any politician, journalist or otherwise," Hodgkins said, saying he put "passion ahead of principle." He added, "I completely acknowledge and respect that Joseph R. Biden is the rightful and respectful president of the United States."

U.S. prosecutors sought an 18-month prison term for Hodgkins, citing the need to deter domestic terrorism. Hodgkins asked for probation or house arrest.
Hmm, an honest criminal?

Meanwhile, Richard Barnett, the famous occupant of Nancy Pelosi's desk, is under restrictions awaiting sentence.

- Home detention
- Location monitoring
- No possession firearms or other weapons
- Passport revoked and can't get a new one
- No travel outside of 50 miles from his home in Gravette
- No associating with anyone from the Jan. 6 insurrection

  • ersi
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Re: Everything Trump…
Reply #315
According to some ppl, Trump will be reinstated today at this event https://events.donaldjtrump.com/events/rally-in-cullman-alabama
According to Google Maps, the address looks like a non-place https://goo.gl/maps/JrJJxQFCBx5LJLwH8

Why is Trump still the leader of the Republican Party? Are Republicans really that thick? (Yes, they are.)

  • Frenzie
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Re: Everything Trump…
Reply #316
According to Google Maps, the address looks like a non-place https://goo.gl/maps/JrJJxQFCBx5LJLwH8
Do they have something against two-story dwellings?

  • ersi
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Re: Everything Trump…
Reply #317
They have something against basements also.

  • ersi
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Re: Everything Trump…
Reply #318
Sydney Powell and her co-nutheads get legally devastated in Michigan as their election's fraud lawsuit is judged utterly frivolous. The writer of the decision probably giggled a lot when writing it, but it is rather painful to hear how empty a lawcase in USA can be.



  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: Everything Trump…
Reply #319
FYI: A prediction from this humble but un-cowed American republican has it that Eric Trump (...not The Donald or Junior) will run in '24. We'll have to wait and see...?!
Yeah, we will: Interesting times!

(Remember, you heard it here first! :)
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

  • ersi
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Re: Everything Trump…
Reply #320
I also think that a Trump will run, but it is going to be a very short run, either utterly embarrassing or utterly forgettable. He won't get half as far as Larry Elder, not even a quarter.

  • ensbb3
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Re: Everything Trump…
Reply #321
Any chance the mods can lock this thread until he gets his Twitter back? 😶

  • Luxor
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  • Global Moderator
Re: Everything Trump…
Reply #322
Any chance the mods can lock this thread until he gets his Twitter back? 😶
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
The start and end to every story is the same. But what comes in between you have yourself to blame.

Re: Everything Trump…
Reply #323
FYI: A prediction from this humble but un-cowed American republican has it that Eric Trump (...not The Donald or Junior) will run in '24. We'll have to wait and see...?!
Yeah, we will: Interesting times!

(Remember, you heard it here first! :)
Perhaps, but I think Don Jr is more likely.  People are already talking about Trump 2024, but to me, there's no saying that Biden or Trump will even be alive in 2024. Talking natural causes of course.
"What kind of man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter."
― Terry Pratchett, Going Postal

Re: Everything Trump…
Reply #324
Any chance the mods can lock this thread until he gets his Twitter back? 😶
Does he still want it, considering he's starting his own social media. Of course, that platform is already looking more censored than Twitter since criticism of Trump is not going to be allowed on it.
"What kind of man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter."
― Terry Pratchett, Going Postal