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Topic: Pity about 1917... (Read 1964 times)

  • rjhowie
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Pity about 1917...
Just a tragedy what occurred a hundred years ago after the Russian Revolution in 1917. What it led to with the second one by the Reds dragged the evilness into other countries elsewhere.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: Pity about 1917...
Reply #1
Wasn't 1789 (and the next 10 years) about the same?
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

  • rjhowie
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Re: Pity about 1917...
Reply #2
pity history is a scant thing for you boy. 1789 was a farce whereas 1917 marked tens and scores of millions more across the world. Tragic. Nodded to Nicholas 2nd on the wall!
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: Pity about 1917...
Reply #3
So, RJ, the French revolution was but an inconsequential farce -- to you? :) Your sense of history is as warped as your politics.
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: Pity about 1917...
Reply #4
Maybe if the Czars weren't a bunch of corrupt, incompetent inbreds taking advice from a charlatan (or just a madman?)  it wouldn't have happened.
  • Last Edit: 2017-11-09, 16:47:56 by midnight raccoon
"What kind of man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter."
― Terry Pratchett, Going Postal

  • Belfrager
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Re: Pity about 1917...
Reply #5
Maybe if the Czars weren't a bunch of corrupt
In the Ages of Corruption, the guilt one is the defenseless Czar....
A matter of attitude.

  • rjhowie
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Re: Pity about 1917...
Reply #6
Ignorant rubbish there from midnight raccoon but then make allowances for Yank education!

In 1905 an elected parliament was created and when Stolypin was appointed Prime Minister (came for an high background) he advocated Russia keeping out of wars. He also pushed to change the age old thing of the better country peasantry the Kulacks not having shared land around a village but having their own farms. The Tsarist Government set up a Peasant Bank so that the country people could get great loans at as low a rate of interest and whadda do you know some half a million duly applied. Russia is a massive country and the world's largest with all sorts of different races and languages and you have to be patient to make great changes. On the country supporting issue many big landowners were keen to sell as they were in serious decline after 1900. The US President prior to WW1 complimented the Tsarist Government on it's intent on progress the widening of industry and education.

Stolypin was very progressive and a great supporter of the ordinary while still being a monarchist. Of course we accept there was poverty which in such a big place was going to take time but it had many drastic change and moving the right direction.  After the first revolution in February 1917 came the second with those damn Bolshevik scum bags. In turn there was the Russian Civil War between Whites and the Reds. Gt Britain, France and the USA all sent troops to Russia in support of the Whites although we all let the 2 sides get on with it (oh and the Japanese troops in the east). yet while that was happening US Government people were going behind the British, French backs and having clandestine meetings with the Red scumbags on business, etc. Dear oh dear and we get Yanks here with limited grey cells with scant knowledge mouthing rubbish. Maybe i shoud inform limited grey cell ex-colonists of this further information.

In October of that terrible year other red parties fell out with the Bolsheviks and left the conference they were having so Lenin decided to try and go ahead with a coup with his lot. He made his way to the Bolshie HQ in a former girls school the Smolny. He was momentarily stopped by 2 Provisional Government soldiers but he was disguised pretending he was drunk and was left alone. Had he not got to the building there would have been no October Red take over at the Winter Palace.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • rjhowie
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Re: Pity about 1917...
Reply #7
Belfrager has a point and midnight raccoon displays a brained knowledge of history and comes out with that limited guff about the last Tsar.  What came next was a hopeless Provisional Government and they made things far worse. In St Petersburg they disbanded the official police and replaced them with volunteer "militia." Up until then the Tsarist police had a wide remit not just on law and order but on the maintenance of much of the St Petersburg city system. This ranged not just on law and order but routine things like tax, sanitation supervision, cleanliness of streets and much else. The would-be militia were as much a waste of time and corrupt. Crime went through the roof as did robbery, no safety and much else. The legal system until February had been independent and fair trials the norm. As for the Tsarist secret police the Okhrana could not go and arrest you but had to go through the police system and a warrant by the area governor then in due course have a legal trial. In passing I would say that when it comes to a history of corruption midnight ignores the history of his own country and has a limited awareness of Russian history!

ps The long police of Commy days was still called the !Militia but in recent times President Putin had them re-organised and called like everywhere else...police.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • rjhowie
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Re: Pity about 1917...
Reply #8
And a Yank President prior to WW1 actually complimented the last Emperor for the country advancing on agriculture, industry and other political developments.

Another interesting modern and surprising news item is that across Russia some 17 memorial statues to Nicholas 2nd have been put up. Even more surprising a thousand people turned up for the dedication of one elsewhere - the capital of Serbia! Just thought would educate our ex-colonials to make up for their lack of knowledge in education.  :D
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • rjhowie
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Re: Pity about 1917...
Reply #9
I should maybe inform midnight raccoon that apart from the routine police all that Imperial Russia had was the Ohkrana "secret police." They could only hold you for 15 days and either get a trial organised or release the prisoner. It had no great numbers although was good at infiltrating terror groups. Neither could they exercise raids without approval. And the wonderful free America has what - 13 or more government security agencies? Must have a dodgy population?!
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • jax
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  • Global Moderator
Re: Pity about 1917...
Reply #10
The revolution also led to independent Finland December 6, 1917.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJu0Dc7iJG0

Though followed up with a civil war a little over a month later. Fortunately in Finland the Whites won, otherwise Finland would have ended up as yet another Soviet Republic. 

  • Frenzie
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  • Administrator
Re: Pity about 1917...
Reply #11
Incidentally, while washing the dishes I listened to this series of podcasts by the BBC.

The Red and the White: Intervention
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p05k44c9

The Red and the White: Britain's Arctic Prison
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3csvsjr

The Red and the White: Retribution
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3csvsjs

  • rjhowie
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Re: Pity about 1917...
Reply #12
It is almost as if today's Russia was a delayed White victory after so long!

During the nasty USSR days one can recall seeing the queus at shops and although bread very cheap it was a vivid display of how bad things were under the Reds. In the 60's and 70's traffic on roads was very light and all the shops belonged to the State as did homes as private stuff was illegal. Today big cities like St Petersburg and Moscow are chock-a-block with traffic.Shopping, restaurants and s on everywhere. The place is far more alive and broader than the Red days. I was surprised recently to find out that Yeltsin had wanted to bring in a referendum the monarchy being returned but sussed that would be erroneous s fst too soon after the collapse of the Communist dictatorship. A year ago a relation sent me a link to a mass demonstration in support of the monarchy running well into six figures and stretched for miles  Even when St Petersburg voted to bring back it's pre-revolution name was a surprise. The orthodox Church has flourished and gets support from the President and others. Pre-1917 flag, coat of arms and even uniforms are all here again. I am not saying the Romanovs will return some time soon but in several places there have other surprises on the net. Statues and memorials to Nicholas 2nd popping up and dedicated by the church, etc.

Putin ensured that a memorial statue was raised recently to mark the Tsarist prime minister Pyotr Stolypin and a couple appeared elsewhere in the Federation. Stolypin a strong monarchist was also a progressive man was forthright in moving the country forward and encouraging the more progressive and ambitious country peasantry to buy land. They even created a Peasants Bank where very, very low rates gave hundreds of thousands of country people the right to have their own farms and so on. When Stolypin was murdered at an opera visit in front of the Imperial Family the Emperor went to visit him as he lay almost unconscious before dying to pray for him and apologise.

Personally I think that what will gradually occur is that the Imperial Family will be allowed to move back in without power back somewhere. This happened to the Serbian Royals who were given two palaces back in the capital Belgrade. With imperial uniforms back in Russia and including the Presidential Guard the Imperial coat of arms, pre-1917 flag, Russia is actively taking part in something previously lost during the persecution and evil during the USSR nightmare days. Putin's mother was an Orthodox worshipper and attended a church and when his father died he got an Orthodox funeral and to this day Putin still supports the Orthodox. I bought a cd of the regimental marches of over 14 pre-1917 Imperial guard units done today. Done by the Naval College band in St Petersburg they are brilliant marches and it shows the badge of each. Amusingly at the annual WW2 marking parade in Red square each year I have recognised some of today's band playing these Imperial tunes!What a vast change these days!
"Quit you like men:be strong"