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Topic: The weekend post (Read 1522 times)

  • Belfrager
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The weekend post
I've noticed that, except me, most of you don't post too much at weekends.
I don't want to know the reason for.

So, this is the thread with a new concept of subject. It doesn't have a defined subject but a defined time lag.
You can post whatever subject you want but only at "leisure time", at the weekend.

Post modernism arrived at DnD. New experimentations for meta - forums.
I hope this thread to be a total failure.
A matter of attitude.

  • jax
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  • Global Moderator
Re: The weekend post
Reply #25
@jax How did you manage to botch the yle.fi link? http://"https:0... <-- what the hell is this?

The WYSIWYG editor did. Fixed now.

  • jax
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  • Global Moderator
Re: The weekend post
Reply #26
I'm slightly surprised that Poland is in favor of abolishing DST, seeing how Central European time was practically invented for them. Only the easternmost edge of Poland falls in UTC+2. Over here we're at UTC, meaning even winter time puts us one hour[1] ahead of solar time. Estonia and Finland are in somewhat similar positions, over half an hour ahead of solar time.

Anyway, we (Benelux, France, Spain) are affected worse since we're already living in perpetual DST. Where can I find out who voted for and against this @$#@#$ WW1 fossil?

You must mean Eastern European Time. Practically all of the EU is at Central European Time, with some Western outliers (Ireland and Portugal) and some Eastern outliers (Finland, Baltic States, Romania). Countries tend to prefer a time zone more eastern than the one closest to have 12:00 at noon on average. Prague is close to 15°E (nominally CET), St. Petersburg, Kiev, and Istanbul to 30°E (nominally EET). The reason, just as with summer time, is to maximise daytime hours.

So, getting rid of summer time, the most attractive option for most would be permanent summer time. In other words EET for countries currently on CET. That would give Finland, the Baltic States and the rest on EET a choice. Do they want to be on permanent summer time as well, or permanent winter time, in effect putting these countries on the same time zone as most of the EU.
57 minutes to be precise, according to https://time.is/Antwerp

  • jax
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  • Global Moderator
Re: The weekend post
Reply #27
Europe, even Southern Europe, is far north on the planet. The daylight variability during the year far outweigh the difference in time zones.

  • Frenzie
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  • Administrator
Re: The weekend post
Reply #28
You must mean Eastern European Time.
I have no idea what you're driving at. Warsaw is at -10 minutes, Lublin -16 and Wroclaw at +6. Poland is Central Europe and CET is their time zone. The only reason we use CET is because Nazi Germany forced us to in 1940.[1] CET is quite literally Nazi Time.

Spain is also on Nazi Time, but that's because Franco was a big fan who wanted to show off his allegiance. Nobody forced them.

The reason, just as with summer time, is to maximise daytime hours.
I'm fairly sure that we have summer (or in deceptive English, "daylight saving") time today because of the completely unfounded claim that it saves energy, which was important during the '70s oil crisis so they were desperate to try anything.
Us meaning the Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, and France.

  • ersi
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Re: The weekend post
Reply #29
The only reason we use CET is because Nazi Germany forced us to in 1940.[1] CET is quite literally Nazi Time.

Spain is also on Nazi Time, but that's because Franco was a big fan who wanted to show off his allegiance. Nobody forced them.
Are you saying it's a bad thing because the Nazis did it? Here's another thing for you to consider, the Stalinist decree time that involved turning the clock one hour ahead, permanently, to save daylight time, so that people wake up and go to work in daylight and waste less electricity.

The superiority of this idea is in that the clocks were turned ahead once and for all, not twice a year. It cannot bother anyone much what the clock shows, but it bothers everyone a lot when you have to turn the clock back and forth twice a year.
Us meaning the Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, and France.

  • Belfrager
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Re: The weekend post
Reply #30
The worst thing for me is to have dinner while there's still daylight.
A matter of attitude.

  • Frenzie
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  • Administrator
Re: The weekend post
Reply #31
Are you saying it's a bad thing because the Nazis did it?
Facetiously, yes. More seriously, their concern was ease of administration across the Third Reich and whether the time on the clock matters depends on to what extent the clock dictates your working hours. That is, does having the same timezone mean we all start work at 8:00 or does it mean it just makes our conversations easier? There is some slight support for this notion. I understand that in Germany school can start at 7:30, whereas here in Flanders school starts at 8:00 at the earliest. Our perception of Germans as early risers and Spaniards as late sleepers goes back to that. At the same time (har, har), Spaniards definitely suffer the most from their stupid timezone, although a lot of it is cultural. This whole timezone and clock shifting business is basically just an attempt to short-circuit culture.

The superiority of this idea is in that the clocks were turned ahead once and for all, not twice a year. It cannot bother anyone much what the clock shows, but it bothers everyone a lot when you have to turn the clock back and forth twice a year.
Probably, but there are two parts to it. Switching to DST is freaking terrible. That probably can't be too different anywhere. But I wonder if switching back to "winter time" feels like quite the same level of relief in Poland. Basically DST feels utterly wrong to me and pretty much keeps on doing so until we switch back to normal time. The switch back to winter time isn't just unproblematic, but welcome.

Anyway, perpetual DST seems okay, I guess. Just as long as everyone understands that we are in perpetual DST.

  • Barulheira
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Argentina is in perpetual DST
Reply #32

  • jax
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  • Global Moderator
Re: The weekend post
Reply #33
Are you saying it's a bad thing because the Nazis did it?
Napoleon has a few things to answer for as well.

The natural variability is more significantly where we live. The Earth's orbit isn't circular, The distance to the Sun varies through the year. The Earth's axis of rotation is tilted. The Earth isn't a sphere. Most of us don't live at the equator. The whole thing wobbles a bit.

Most of these effects are so minute we wouldn't notice. A solar day varies with about a minute during a year, the solar noon with half an hour.

The southernmost point on the mainland in the EU is Punta de Tarifa in Spain at 32°N, further south than Gibraltar, and south of the northernmost point of Africa at 37°N. Even at that point the summer day is five hours longer than the winter day.  Since Norway is not in the EU (and Greenland not in the mainland), the northernmost point in the EU is Nuorgam in Finland, at 70°N. There the sun is up from 16 May to 28 July. Most of Europe is between those extremes, but seasonal fluctuations far outweigh the time zone differences.

This map shows the difference between nominal solar noon (which as mention can differ quite significantly from real solar noon) and longitude. The prevalence of red shows that most pick long nights over bright mornings. Where I am. Södertälje, is one of the few (slightly) green areas in Europe (now, at 17:24 CET, it's nautical twilight).




Single-hour time zones don't do major time difference, and it is a significant boon not having to change time zone just by moving a little bit or talking to someone on the other side of the border. 

My suggestion would be for those on CET to be on perpetual summer time, and those on EET to be on perpetual winter time. That would lead to all of mainland EU being in the same time zone (in effect EET, or UTC+2). For Finland, Estland, and the rest that would mean no summertime, but being on European time. 

  • ersi
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Re: Argentina is in perpetual DST
Reply #34
Argentina is in perpetual DST.
A Wikipedia page titled "Time in Argentina". There's a special Argentinian time. Time runs differently when you are in Argentina.

  • Barulheira
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Time in Argentina
Reply #35
He knows it.

  • rjhowie
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Re: The weekend post
Reply #36
 :faint:
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • Belfrager
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Re: The weekend post
Reply #37
Barulheira is in Carnival in Rio, instead going to bed with wonderful women he posts imbecilities at DnD.
This way next year DnD will go to Brasilian Carnival..,.
A matter of attitude.

  • rjhowie
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Re: The weekend post
Reply #38
Hope this is not the fault of nutjobland as they have enough to apologise for.........
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • Barulheira
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Posting imbecilities
Reply #39
he posts imbecilities at DnD.
Yes, I prefer to join you all. :cheers:

  • Frenzie
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  • Administrator
Re: The weekend post
Reply #40
I'll just drop color time here.

http://www.phrenopolis.com/colorclock/
Quote
We can simply decide that at some particular point, the time is "orange," everywhere on the planet. Later on it will be yellow, green, teal, blue, maroon, and so on, and eventually orange again. In my part of the world, people tend to wake up in the blue range, eat lunch around lavender and get off work at orange, but elsewhere it may be that you wake up at yellow and have dinner at purple. Neither seems to make more sense than the other, which is exactly the point. And then if we want to have a phone call, we can arrange to speak at thirty minutes past indigo, and there is no confusion about exactly when that means.

It sounds more attractive than https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swatch_Internet_Time

  • Belfrager
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Re: The weekend post
Reply #41
I'll just drop color time here.
I like the idea but grey at noon?? never.
Besides the blueish tones are in the morning, the redish at afternoon, the clock is deeply wrong.

It has some brilliant things, ten to blue, half past pink....
A matter of attitude.

  • Frenzie
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  • Administrator
Re: The weekend post
Reply #42
Incidentally, I just noticed the same person wrote a nice rant about DST.

http://www.phrenopolis.com/custard/
Quote
Which is all well and good, mind you. I'm glad that people want to get up earlier, get a jump on the day, enjoy the summer sun, and so on. I give my blessing to all those so inclined to go ahead and get up as early as they like. What I resent is when anyone tries to force me to join in the revels by legislating the change of MY clock. Keep your hands off my clock! I have enough trouble getting up in the morning as it is.

Frankly, I think if Daylight Saving Time were talked about in terms of what it actually accomplishes - "Hey, let's all get up an hour earlier every day all summer long!" - it would have a lot less popular support than it currently does.

  • Belfrager
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Re: The weekend post
Reply #43
Hour change doesn't have any popular support. Never saw anyone defending it.
It's a pure form of Nazism with all it's pseudo scientific justifications.

One of those parts of "democracy" where one can never vote about.
A matter of attitude.

  • Belfrager
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Re: The weekend post
Reply #44

Is this the best accuracy space scientists can calculate?? I can do the same.
A matter of attitude.

  • ensbb3
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Re: The weekend post
Reply #45
That's just orbital data. It shows that its orbiting at a 35-40 degree inclination and approx 8 orbits. Where it hits depends on how fast it descends. From what I've read it will hit in the pacific early on the 1st of April.

  • rjhowie
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Re: The weekend post
Reply #46
Sometimes I think people get carried away with all this space stuff most of which is of no great advantage and costs massive sums. We even get people who would want to live in barren Mars. At least daftness is still regular.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: The weekend post
Reply #47
You've always only thought of your own orbit, RJ. If you had your way, "bleeding" would still be an accepted medical procedure... :)

You're still angry that the New World was discovered! The damned Spaniards and Portuguese should have just stayed at home, or colonized south and middle Africa and China and India -- like the sensible Brits!
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
No one listens to me as much as I do and even I have my limits...
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman

  • rjhowie
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Re: The weekend post
Reply #48
Totally dopey even if I try to make allowances for where you live boy!

There is no point in billions being spent sending rockets out into nowhere and ideas for going to Mars and people really wanting to go and get the chance to be on that damn planet. Pointless so do not swerve from the point.  Even the Moon would be a s boring as hell! You just absorb such drivel but the way your place is run I suppose allowances need to be made poor man.  ;)
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: The weekend post
Reply #49
You're content to sit in your parlor and watch your telly... Enjoy, RJ! But others want more.

The moon is our launching place for mining operations in the asteroid belt, which will become crucial -- eventually. (I know you don't care about future generations - but others do, for reasons you wouldn't understand.) Why do you think everybody should just stay at home and watch his telly? :) (And you tell me to get out and about! :) )

It seems to me that you think the world is over, ended. Pardon me if I disagree... Your world is over; your way of looking at things is passé. You never were an intellectual; also, you were never very bright. But you always assumed that your point of view was the only acceptable one.
Move on, RJ.
Humanity will, also.
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
No one listens to me as much as I do and even I have my limits...
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman