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Poll

In order for peace to take root in North Ireland, should British (Unionist) troops withdraw permanently back to Britain?

  • Yes -- Absolutely!
  • No -- Never!
  • Completely Befuddled & Unsure.
  • In True Irish Tradition Need 12+ beers or so to ponder all the options.

Topic: What's Going on in Northern Ireland? (Read 13995 times)

What's Going on in Northern Ireland?
The Northern Ireland Conflict: The Troubles --- Na Trioblóidí

Recent Chronology  --  A Topical Prospective


Richard Haass warns NI violence could re-emerge without progress.

Division and alienation is increasing, & Northern Ireland is inching closer to combustion, rather than healing into a lasting peace.

...... "If you walk down parts of Belfast, you are still confronted by concrete barriers separating communities. Upwards of what, 90% of the young people still go to divided, single tradition schools, neighbourhoods are still divided," he said.

"I don't see the society sowing the seeds of its own normalisation, of its own unity, if neighbourhoods and schools are still divided.

"What worries me in that kind of environment - particularly where politics are not shown to be making progress - alienation will continue to fester and violence, I fear, could very well re-emerge as a characteristic of daily life."

Dr Haass also said the recent controversy over secret letters to so-called On the Runs did not justify any party walking away from the ongoing negotiations at Stormont.

The controversy arose when it emerged the UK government sent letters to about 200 republican paramilitary suspects informing them they were not at risk of arrest.

The Ulster Unionist Party pulled out of the talks process over the revelations.....


Will there ever be peace & unity in Northern Ireland under the present conditions?

Do outside forces impede any sincere peace from developing?

Should the Irish be allowed to determine their own future & fate?

Will there ever be a United Republic of Ireland?  Why, or why not.
  • Last Edit: 2014-04-10, 21:00:47 by SmileyFaze

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Re: What's Going on in Northern Ireland?
Reply #1

Re: What's Going on in Northern Ireland?
Reply #2
No, not really ..... Ireland is not a part of Britain or the Commonwealth, nor is it a dependency of either.

The OP in that thread you linked to has absolutely no a mention of Ireland, Northern Ireland, or the matters that involve in the peace process involved within & around.

  Sorry ....... This is a totally independent subject & stands on it's own right.

  • Frenzie
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Re: What's Going on in Northern Ireland?
Reply #3

Re: What's Going on in Northern Ireland?
Reply #4

Re: What's Going on in Northern Ireland?
Reply #5
British forces should withdraw only if it is the will of the N. Irish people, by way of a vote indicating such, in my opinion.

  • Macallan
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Re: What's Going on in Northern Ireland?
Reply #6

British forces should withdraw only if it is the will of the N. Irish people, by way of a vote indicating such, in my opinion.

And if you don't like the result just blame Russia :right:

  • rjhowie
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Re: What's Going on in Northern Ireland?
Reply #7
Yes we all know that Southern Ireland is a sovereign country but to say it does not depend on Great Britain is stretching the emotional stuff considerably. As the Irish President has said on his State visit here there are large numbers of people who went to Ireland and England in both countries so has an influential discussion point. This does not detract from Ireland being a country in it's own right. Large numbers came to England and Scotland by the way settling here and staying. We can see Irish footprints across the various parts of society whether commercially or in the media and entertainment corners, etc. Recently we gave Ireland a loan of 7 billion pounds at a reasonable rate to help it out of the disaster it had.

As for N. Ireland that part being in the British fold will keep security there as long as is needed (noting the Colonel's point). However there are far fewer troops there than during the "troubles." And that is even during the current situation where murders and attempted ones are still continuing from the nut jobs. Southern Ireland several years ago deleted wanting Ulster inside it which was progressive and sensible. In the North there is no great campaign to be anywhere but where it is.  Over the decades I have had a close relationship with N. Ireland. Family connections, family holidays then my own trips and years of taking boys camps there. Great people and always enjoyed the place. Many of my organised camps were during the bother but we seen noting of it.

Since the troubles the number of walls in Belfast actually increased as it happens so shows there are stil those who have not moved on. With terrorists still active the Republic is not that enamoured of the idea of importing that lot so they have moved on. Soon I will be back over in Belfast and other places in the Province and will get the train (of course) over the Border down to Dublin for the day as I am building railways from there in my simulator hobby. There are still some crackers down there but increasingly marginalised by the bulk of the population who aare better educated than years ago and want to be modern, inclusive and sensible. Long may this attitude exist on both sides of the Border.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: What's Going on in Northern Ireland?
Reply #8
Quote from: Colonel Rebel  &  rjhowie 
British forces should withdraw only if it is the will of the N. Irish people, by way of a vote indicating such......


I agree, noting the key phrase being   'North Irish People',  which says simply that all transients & other nationalities must be excluded.

I suggest 2 votes be scheduled. The second being conditional on the first.

1.
British to withdraw all troops permanently from N. Ireland  ---   Yes or No

                             ~~ If Yes ~~

2.
A vote for Irish Unity ---- A vote for One Sovereign Republic of Ireland (All 32 Traditional Counties).
  • Last Edit: 2014-04-11, 05:14:41 by SmileyFaze

Re: What's Going on in Northern Ireland?
Reply #9

And if you don't like the result just blame Russia :right:

PUTIN, to be more accurate :)

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Re: What's Going on in Northern Ireland?
Reply #10
No, not really ..... Ireland is not a part of Britain or the Commonwealth...
What's Going on in Northern Ireland?

Quote from: Wikipedia
Northern Ireland is a part of the United Kingdom...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland

Re: What's Going on in Northern Ireland?
Reply #11
You've been overruled by the 'Supreme Being' Hisself    ...... Get over it,,,,Take a deep, deep breath,,,,,Deal with it.

A good long    scream (alone) in yer toilet might help!  
  • Last Edit: 2014-04-12, 01:03:26 by SmileyFaze

  • rjhowie
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Re: What's Going on in Northern Ireland?
Reply #12
Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom therefor a military presence just the same as in Wales, England, Scotland. The South voted in a referendum to drop any claim to Ulster and you can bet your boots it was because they didn't want to import all the hassle your SF  barbarians create north of the Border.  In your causal socialist dead stop there has been no clamour to be in the Republic of Ireland and I dare say even less so since the country went belly-up financially. You can thanks us SmileyFaze for giving the 7 billion loan to Dublin on a good rate.

Being a regular visitor across the Irish Sea is a better apraisal than your own unfortunate hangover from some deep past false dream. Indeed when next in Belfast in thenear future I will watch for the clamour there for unity with the southern breakway in both Belfast and dublin. Do be patient because it will not be easy to find.

As Lord Carson once said regarding Ulster....."Not an inch." (!)  :king: :knight:
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: What's Going on in Northern Ireland?
Reply #13
Being a regular visitor across the Irish Sea is a better apraisal than your own unfortunate hangover from some deep past false dream.


Hmm, I guess my 2 to 3 trips I take there every year since 1983 don't count as much as yours.

JFYI........ I'll be there for 2 weeks this June - July, maybe you can find time in your busy schedule to come down to Béal Átha hAmhnais for a drink with me & some of my boys.

If you care to take me up on my invite, your overnight stay there won't cost you one single pingin, & as long as you don't orange-up, I'll vouch for your safety.

Re: What's Going on in Northern Ireland?
Reply #14

Being a regular visitor across the Irish Sea is a better apraisal than your own unfortunate hangover from some deep past false dream.


Hmm, I guess my 2 to 3 trips I take there every year since 1983 don't count as much as yours.

JFYI........ I'll be there for 2 weeks this June - July, maybe you can find time in your busy schedule to come down to Béal Átha hAmhnais for a drink with me & some of my boys.

If you care to take me up on my invite, your overnight stay there won't cost you one single pingin, & as long as you don't orange-up, I'll vouch for your safety.


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Re: What's Going on in Northern Ireland?
Reply #15
There are a number of sources concerning the genetic make-up of the British Isles, but this one is an easy read. Note particularly the send map in that link.

The bottom line is that the earliest recorded inhabitant of the Island of Ireland was the Kingdom of Dalriada, located in what is now Northern Ireland. It extended into Scotland and consequently much of the genetic make-up is shared with that part of the Untied Kingdom, not to mention the rest of the UK. So as for "migration" of Scots into Northern Ireland - well same genes - same people.

Genetically, the ancient population of Ireland owe their ancestry and their genes not to Celts but more to Spanish Gypsies. Adoption of the claim for Celtic origins is not really valid, except that some cultural mores have been adopted. But then the Irish have always been good at romanticising.

In terms of who did what first and so on, one could make a case for ownership of the rest of Ireland belonging to Northern Ireland, or even Scotland, or even Spain; so claims that Northern Ireland belongs to Ireland are, at best, flaky.

However all such claims are as nothing compared with the wishes of the inhabitants. The principle of a popular vote determining changes in nationality has been established between the British and Irish Governments and relations have improved enormously over the last decade or so, for example. Not that there has been bad feeling between the majority of British & Irish citizens, it's just the wild and crazy men on both sides of the N.I. Border that inflame outdated vendettas with some sort of blood lust.




Re: What's Going on in Northern Ireland?
Reply #16

I'll be there for 2 weeks this June - July, maybe you can find time in your busy schedule to come down to Béal Átha hAmhnais for a drink with me & some of my boys.

Only if it's...

Just wondering if you and your "boys" aren't just a bit

Re: What's Going on in Northern Ireland?
Reply #17
Just wondering if you and your "boys" aren't just a bit


Wishful thinking there on yer part Jaybro .... acquired a taste fer the tube in yer ole age there now James??

My boys are more like these guys nowadays .........  


..... rather than these of yesteryear  ..........................
  • Last Edit: 2014-04-14, 22:05:00 by SmileyFaze

  • rjhowie
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Re: What's Going on in Northern Ireland?
Reply #18
Yeah that is what you say SmileFaze. They are still at it week by week. Beatings, knee shots, attempted bombings with the speciality of pipebombs.  Oh and by the way the start of your occasional visits  - yes they don't count alongside mine as i run into dozens since a wee boy onwards. Well I suppose they are contributing something to the economy of the amount of booze they take in but having already been grey cell lacking they wouldn't notice any further decline! I do hope you take in the 12th season too.  :sing:
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: What's Going on in Northern Ireland?
Reply #19
So, will you be joining us for a few dozen rounds then?

No bombs, no cappings, no beatings, no shots fired.

No, only merriment be made.  We can all raise our glass to her majesty --- with no words need be said naturally.

The smile on all our faces (yours included) will all reflect the health we so dearly wish for your lady.

Re: What's Going on in Northern Ireland?
Reply #20

So, will you be joining us for a few dozen rounds then?

No bombs, no cappings, no beatings, no shots fired.

If Mr Howie won't behave you'll put him the Irish handcuffs on :D


  • rjhowie
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Re: What's Going on in Northern Ireland?
Reply #21
I don't drink so that does away with that one. Unfortunately Northern Ireland is the least democratic place in Great Britain. Everyone in the Assembly is in the government except what is it 2 or 3 MLA's? Farcical.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: What's Going on in Northern Ireland?
Reply #22
Delay, delay, delay': Northern Ireland Troubles inquests still outstanding

Many adjourned but not concluded as families of those killed claim hearings deliberately being delayed to conceal the truth

.......16 years after the Good Friday peace agreement was struck, 46 inquests into the killings of 74 people remain outstanding in Northern Ireland.....

......Mark Thompson, director of Relatives for Justice, a non-governmental organisation that works with many of the families, believes police are determined that some of the key documentation about the killings should never see the light of day. "It's initially a case of deny, deny, deny, then delay, delay, delay," he said......

........reopened inquests include five that will examine the shooting dead of 10 people in Ballymurphy, west Belfast, during two days of disturbances triggered by the introduction of internment without trial in August 1971. One of those who died was a priest shot while giving the last rites to a young man; another was a 50-year-old mother of eight, shot in the face from a distance of about 200 metres.

Five months later, on Bloody Sunday,, soldiers from the same unit, the 1st Battalion, the Parachute Regiment, shot dead 13 people and wounded 13 others, one fatally, in Derry.........


                                                        
  • Last Edit: 2014-04-18, 17:04:48 by SmileyFaze

Re: What's Going on in Northern Ireland?
Reply #23
Adams seeks Haass deal before elections



Sinn Féin President Gerry Adams has said that his party will be seeking an agreement on the Haass proposals ahead of this year's elections, dismissing suggestions that the issues will wait until May.......



At a constituency meeting on Monday night, Gerry Adams criticised what he called the "negative approach" of the British government in dealing with proposals on flags, parades and the past........

"The Irish government has already agreed that Haass represents the best way forward and the US administration has endorsed this in recent weeks."

Claiming that the political process in Northern Ireland was facing its greatest challenge in recent years, Mr Adams added: "Citizens do not want the process slipping back.

"This requires genuine power sharing and partnership. It also requires the focus of the two governments, but especially the British government and a change in direction by the unionist leadership."

Accusing Ulster Unionist Party leader Mike Nesbitt of "posturing with the NO men on the extremes of unionism", Mr Adams further added: "Middle unionism must feel badly let down by the clear effort on the part of political unionism to roll back on the progress that has been made since the Good Friday Agreement was achieved 16 years ago.".......


The clock is ticking backwards, & the foundation to the Peace Process is starting to crack.

If Britain wants peace to continue in Northern Ireland then they either 'shit or get off the pot'.

Continued British inaction could see a renewal of unrest &  an eventual rise in bloodshed.

........What now are the two Governments considering in the face of mounting evidence that the reckless behaviour of mainstream Unionist parties could precipitate a genuine and full scale political crisis?

In my opinion the Haass proposals on dealing with legacy issues were a compromise that offered the best hope for bringing closure to victims and families and of removing this divisive issue from the political agenda. Any doubts or misgivings should be set aside in pursuit of that priority which every party has claimed to support. Must we conclude about those who oppose Haass, that these professed claims are bogus?

There is now clearly a concerted effort by unionist parties to reverse the progress made since 1998 and to break binding agreements that were made as part of the peace process. But it is not only the Unionist parties, because the British Government have so far failed to back the proposals.

That should cause serious concern for everyone committed to the peace process; in particular the Irish Government.


Like I said earlier, "Continued British inaction could see a renewal of unrest & an eventual rise in bloodshed."

Hostilities will cease only when the very last Brit turns for home ..... not one moment before.  Tiocfaidh ár lá
  • Last Edit: 2014-04-19, 23:00:01 by SmileyFaze

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Re: What's Going on in Northern Ireland?
Reply #24
Like I said earlier, "Continued British inaction could see a renewal of unrest & an eventual rise in bloodshed."

Hostilities will cease only when the very last Brit turns for home ..... not one moment before.  Tiocfaidh ár lá
The blame for continued bad feelings lie not in the past but in all those that dwell in the past and treat violence as some sort of hobby. This includes the bunch of murderous would-be-IRA thugs that you admire so much, SF. Such thugs are part of the problem not in any way a solution to it.