The difference lies in the referential pronouns. "Ukraine is a country in Eastern Europe and her president is Petro Poroshenko." This is what makes French so confusing from our perspective, because they say "the woman and his étui à lunettes."
why don't you use its because you are referring to a land?
Quote from: ersi on 2018-01-08, 07:17:53why don't you use its because you are referring to a land?It might be a conceptual land but in Duitsland what matters is that it's a modified form of land. Het Baskenland (n), de Baskenrepubliek (f), de Baskenstaat (m).
Elsewhere it is not there, not in the article and not in the word.
But if you lack an explicit its, you're pretty much stuck, forced to a his or her
In contrast, French has explicit masculine and feminine - explicit in the articles that you are supposed to memorise together with nouns.
If the school program has not caught up yet, I encourage you to suggest it to the relevant authorities.
Quote from: ersi on 2018-01-08, 10:12:41Elsewhere it is not there, not in the article and not in the word.That's at least somewhat debatable. I'd have to run numbers on it, but I'll hypothesize that words ending in -iek are feminine more often (wiek, piek, epiek, republiek, kriek, koliek) than not (giek, um...).
Many French words can go either way and you just "randomly" assign a gender to indicate that, for example, I am a man saying this about myself (or vice versa).
I have no idea about the school program.
North Germanic languages acknowledge that f and m have merged and now they only have so-called en-gender and ett-gender, i.e. named after the indefinite articles. In Russian there are no articles, but the gender is seen:
What is the material basis for f and m distinction in Dutch nouns?
I mean the way common grammar books present it, guidebooks for tourists etc. What is their basis to stating that there is an f and m distinction in Dutch nouns? What practical difference does it make? From what I see, it has similar residual importance like in English or Swedish, certainly no grammatical importance.
History in various forms.
But either way, I don't fully understand what you're saying.
Nobody denies that English used to have three genders in nouns, but it's equally undeniable that it does not have them anymore,
so-called common and neuter
In linguistics we speak of common (subdivided in m and f) and neuter. I have no idea about the school program.
Gendered nouns:Higher living things. Masculine or feminine depending on real-world gender.Neuter nouns:Objects and lower living things.The difference with Old English and Dutch is that the gender is not opaque but can be reasoned out.
From what you're saying I can't tell with certainty if Swedish actually only has two genders like French...
...or if it's like Dutch, with you discounting an obvious gender because it doesn't meet your standards.
Anyway, other markers live on semi-unproductively. Des = masculine (like in 's avonds, at night, lit. of the night) and der = feminine (like in der naturen bloeme, nature's feminine flower; that'd be des naturen bloem if flower were masculin).I say semi because I unconsciously derived these rules long before I was taught in school that they were supposedly "archaic" and "frozen" expressions.
So your sense of presence of m and f derives from your acquaintance with older literature. The elements are called already "archaic" and "frozen" in school, but the literature is still so recent that the language teaching has not reoriented its terms.
They are linguistic standards, not my standards. Linguists have their way of detecting whether something is present in a language or not. It's comparative and relative, of course, but that's how language is and works.
Two genders, yes, but French has m and f (no neuter), whereas Swedish has common and neuter (no distinction of m and f). Numerically the same subdivision of genders, but different substance.
I already said foreigners are taught there are de and het words?
It does mention something about linguistics on my diploma, you know.
That's de and het gender, so to speak, but how about m and f? Are Dutch children in schools taught about m and f as currently relevant grammatical genders?
Yes, I know. This is why I keep wondering why you argue as if there were something to argue.
Het belangrijkste genusonderscheid tussen substantieven noemen we dan ook dat tussen 'de -woorden' (zoals ezel) en ' het-woorden' (zoals paard). Vanuit dit standpunt bezien kan men dan ook zeggen dat het Nederlands een tweegenerasysteem heeft
The most important genus distinction between substantives we call that between de words (like ezel) and het words (like paard). From this point of view you can say that Dutch has a two genera system.
De de-woorden worden, ook als ze geen levende wezens aanduiden, in de geschreven taal ook wel onderscheiden in mannelijke en vrouwelijke woorden, respectievelijk masculina en feminina. (De het -woorden worden onzijdig (neutrum) genoemd.) Vanuit dit standpunt bezien (vergelijk 1) kan men dus zeggen dat het Nederlands een driegenerasysteem heeft. Ook in de gesproken taal , zij het slechts sporadisch in het noorden, maar algemeen in het zuidelijke deel van het taalgebied, waar de dialecten een driegenerasysteem hebben, wordt dat onderscheid gemaakt.
Het bedoelde onderscheid is alleen van belang voor de verwijzing door middel van persoonlijke en bezittelijke (en in beperkte mate vragende en betrekkelijke) voornaamwoorden
The distinction in question is only relevant for referral through personal and possessive (and in limited degree questioning and relative) pronouns.
Naar mannelijke substantieven wordt verwezen met de voornaamwoorden hij, ie, zijn, z'n, wiens, naar vrouwelijke met zij, ze, haar, (d)'r, wier.
Masculine substantives are referred to with the pronouns hij, ie, zijn, z'n, wiens, feminine with zij, ze, haar, (d)'r, wier.
Dutch nouns can be sorted into two genders, labelled common and neuter. Common gender comprises the historical masculine and feminine gender, which have merged in most varieties. Common and neuter can be distinguished with the help of the definite article. Common gender nouns take the article de, neuter gender nouns take het. This is in line with the fact that gender is a morphosyntactic feature, expressed through agreement on associated words. In Dutch, gender agreement is visible on definite articles, adjectives in attributive position and a variety of pronouns: the relative, the personal, the demonstrative and the possessive pronoun, as well as on the indefinite pronouns ieder and elk. The two relative pronouns wiens whose (masculine) and wier whose (feminine)are becoming archaic, and are often used incorrectly.[...]Dutch personal pronouns are special because they distinguish three genders rather than two. The three pronominal genders have the values masculine, feminine and neuter. The mismatch between the nominal and the pronominal genders goes hand in hand with difficulties and extensive variation.
Anyway, thanks! This thesis had slipped under my radar.
In Dutch and German, a girl is neuter. Suck on that.
Grammar."Quit you like men:be strong"
attached to churches and is from the Bible.
"Quit you like me be strong was the motto[...]
out tht Belfrager
By th eway
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