Wow!! I didn't know you already figured out how to move the Earth away from the sun--what's the plan to deflect large asteroids? We could win another Nobel with this shit, (I gave you some credit for solving the TOE).
It's insane to give humans so much power over celestial bodies.
Quote from: ersi on 2014-08-05, 05:23:05It's insane to give humans so much power over celestial bodies.1000 years ago it was insane to say that man would go to the moon--nothing is impossible.
A Russian astrophysicist had some thoughts on this and his scale of society 'Types' is still recognized today.
Man went to the moon and nothing good came of that either. Btw, 1000 years ago man dreamt of conquering the space just as they did in the fifties.
Your dream of progress in 10,000 years is futile. Humanity won't survive that long. Much better chances that humanity will turn this planet into another moon. In the best case humanity bombs itself back into the stone age soon so they can start evolving again.
Have faith in mankind--it makes this life so much more livable and fun.
Now all you have to do is to prove that your faith is more reasonable than anyone else's and your individual life so much more livable and fun compared to eternity. Should be piece of cake.
The last ice age caused our brains to increase 300% in size just in order to figure out how to survive
My faith is more reasonable because it deals only with this real world and not something make believe. From there it is obvious to see that I am gaining much more from this life than believers by not being preoccupied about a possible second life and having to devote this life to worshiping some god who may or may not provide that for me--piece of cake.
"Eternity"? When I consider eternity, I'm in a moment of bliss... That is, I'm not thinking of anything; I'm wholely absorbed in the moment. (My presumption is that everyone here knows what I'm referring to.) Time ceases to exist -- like going back to the Big Bang!But it doesn't last. (I'd be unemployable, if it did...) And it shouldn't: It has a purpose.
That's where I disagree with the Heaven Chasers.They would do anything to secure their place there... I would do what I can, to make my place here better.
You cannot make eternity and mundane life co-exist because of booze habit, while he had to do booze to make the earthly life feel concrete.
Open the Doors of perception...
Given what I have seen about your definition of real world (and frankly all other concepts you hold, scientific and religious), your optimism is a complete make believe. It's symptomatic how you divide people into two classes, optimists and pessimists, forgetting realists.
The whole point of heaven is [...]
Taking psychological science into account moots most of the "positions" here... Quote from: ersi on 2014-08-07, 00:43:34The whole point of heaven is [...]Is there any way to fill that ellipsis that isn't extremely selfish?!
The whole point of heaven is [...]Is there any way to fill that ellipsis that isn't extremely selfish?!
Were I a believer, I think it would be prudent of me to be selfish enough to want to avoid the alternative of burning in hell, but I don't think the whole point of heaven is just to avoid hell. To the believer, there simply exists a heaven whether they want to go there or not and the whole point of heaven has not been completely revealed to them.
Ersi's case is a different story. Unfortunately, I don't have the time this morning to go into detail, however, I do think his 'wanting' there to be a heaven is for selfish reasons--but not horribly so.
What can be criticised is blind faith and unverified speculations.
For example your optimistic scientism perfectly qualifies as blind faith and the multiverse theory perfectly qualifies as an unverified speculation.
But the fact is that theories have to fit perfectly with everything that science has already discovered and proven. It must then reasonably answer certain questions that the theory was devised to answer. It has to be rigidly correct in its mathematical formulations and until it can be proven experimentally, it must naturally remain a theory.
EDIT: When science stops answering the tough questions, stops making life better for everyone on this planet and stops providing hope for the future then I'll stop believing in science. Btw, what has god done for this world lately...or ever?
@ Ersi: I see no reason why I must conduct my life by the same rigors you feel necessary in yours. Moreover, ...
Moreover, when a field of study has the winning track record that science has, I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt in their reports and even more so, because I understand the very exact, careful and strict discipline that all scientific findings must go through.
But tell me then, for how long did you actually rub two sticks together to make fire until you could experimentally prove it was okay and safe to use a stove? Many modern gadgets use unproven theories of quantum mechanics, so I'm quite sure you don't have anything like a cell phone, computer or Blu-ray player. The fact is, you merrily use these marvels of science every day and then stab science in the back by night--what has science ever done to you?
The fact of the matter is that, yes, religion, scripture, God all had their day in the sun, but it's high time people grew up, shed their old religious skin and moved on to where science is leading us--the stars.
Agnosticism addresses knowledge--atheism addresses belief.
Modern science does not have any solid metaphysical foundation. Materialistic science has very loose and inconsistent definitions of fact and truth.
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