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Topic: The Awesomesauce with Religion (Read 120826 times)

  • Frenzie
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The Awesomesauce with Religion
I suppose we need one of these.

Edit (20-02-2014): maybe a more positive title will make some difference? :)
  • Last Edit: 2014-02-20, 18:13:52 by Frenzie

  • ersi
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Re: The Awesomesauce with Religion
Reply #575

Social responsibility = evil. Colonisation of the universe = bleh.

Is there anything bad or evil about colonizing the universe? 

You are cool as long as you don't impose social responsibility on Oakdale. He is already quite grumpy about it.

  • jseaton2311
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Re: The Awesomesauce with Religion
Reply #576
I'm thinking that any intelligent life in the universe will resemble life on Earth, generally.  If the building blocks of DNA are found in comets and meteors then it is likely scattered everywhere.  Life on Earth may have started a scant 500 million years after the huge bombardment from heavenly bodies and when things then cooled down enough to allow for it.  I wonder if all alien life goes through a period of god-belief like we have.  I think it might depend on the environmental pressures placed on intelligent life on a planet by planet basis--we will see.   :knight:  :cheers: 
James J

  • ersi
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Re: The Awesomesauce with Religion
Reply #577

I wonder if all alien life goes through a period of god-belief like we have.  I think it might depend on the environmental pressures placed on intelligent life on a planet by planet basis--we will see.   :knight:  :cheers:

How does your faith in aliens and in science differ from someone else's faith in God?

  • Sparta
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Re: The Awesomesauce with Religion
Reply #578
started from this ---->  religion

and now we are here --->  alien

Hail Alien !  :cheers:

btw how big or how small is the size of alien in our currently universe ?


is a Nano-sized Alien-organism  are also  categorized as Alien ?   :coffee:

  • jseaton2311
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Re: The Awesomesauce with Religion
Reply #579
How does your faith in aliens and in science differ from someone else's faith in God?


I have faith that science will continue to help improve the human condition and find ways for our species to survive--despite ourselves.  That will include eventually getting off this rock, if for no other reason than to avoid being burnt to a crisp by our own sun.  I have no faith in aliens--I've never met one...you?  The sheer mathematical certainty that there must be a multitude of planets conducive to intelligent life is what causes me to think that they exist.  If there is a supernatural god then somehow he must have got very bored doing god things and decided to play with dolls, so he made us.   :knight:  :cheers:
James J

  • Belfrager
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Re: The Awesomesauce with Religion
Reply #580
is a Nano-sized Alien-organism  are also  categorized as Alien ?

I think so. How much nano sized anyway? that's a funny idea, they would see us as giants...
It's not pretty to call them organisms... it's not their fault being so small... :)
A matter of attitude.

  • Frenzie
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Re: The Awesomesauce with Religion
Reply #581
I think so. How much nano sized anyway? that's a funny idea, they would see us as giants...

Something like Micromégas? ;)

  • Sparta
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Re: The Awesomesauce with Religion
Reply #582
very very very small of course .. :coffee:
mikro = 1/million -- 10 -6
Nano = 1/billion -- 10 -9

  • Belfrager
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Re: The Awesomesauce with Religion
Reply #583

very very very small of course .. :coffee:
mikro = 1/million -- 10 -6
Nano = 1/billion -- 10 -9

?? smaller than fleas? that's not a decent alien. You can crush them.
A matter of attitude.

  • Sparta
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Re: The Awesomesauce with Religion
Reply #584
Quote
You can crush them


it will pretty hard to crush something smaller than germ / microorganism .


:D

  • Belfrager
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Re: The Awesomesauce with Religion
Reply #585
Even if insignificant, those aliens would be creatures of God, almost our brothers.
That's the interesting part when considering the existence of extra terrestrial beings.
A matter of attitude.

  • ersi
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Re: The Awesomesauce with Religion
Reply #586

I have faith that science will continue to help improve the human condition and find ways for our species to survive--despite ourselves. 

You mean that for science to work well, science should be done by someone else than ourselves. It should be done by aliens to improve human condition, right? This is an awesome faith you have there.


very very very small of course .. :coffee:
mikro = 1/million -- 10 -6
Nano = 1/billion -- 10 -9

It's funny how in the thirties, maybe up to the fifties, scientists thought aliens (Martians) are human-like. Later squirrel-like. Later flea-like, even virus-like. Now they are happy to find just a drop of water.

  • Frenzie
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Re: The Awesomesauce with Religion
Reply #587
It's funny how in the thirties, maybe up to the fifties, scientists thought aliens (Martians) are human-like.

[citation needed]

  • Belfrager
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Re: The Awesomesauce with Religion
Reply #588
It's funny how in the thirties, maybe up to the fifties, scientists thought aliens (Martians) are human-like. Later squirrel-like. Later flea-like, even virus-like. Now they are happy to find just a drop of water.

That's a very mysterious statement of yours... care to explicit it? not what scientists thinks, what you think about what scientist thinks.
A matter of attitude.

  • ersi
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Re: The Awesomesauce with Religion
Reply #589

It's funny how in the thirties, maybe up to the fifties, scientists thought aliens (Martians) are human-like. Later squirrel-like. Later flea-like, even virus-like. Now they are happy to find just a drop of water.

That's a very mysterious statement of yours... care to explicit it? not what scientists thinks, what you think about what scientist thinks.

It's not just my own observation about the development of scientific thought about alien life. Other commentators have also noticed the same trend.

Btw, here's the latest virus-like discovery of alien life http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/08/140807145738.htm

To (de)mystify this further, I have completely different ideas about life forms on other planets, as I have a different idea about what constitutes life at all.

  • ersi
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Re: The Awesomesauce with Religion
Reply #590

It's funny how in the thirties, maybe up to the fifties, scientists thought aliens (Martians) are human-like.

[citation needed]

The fact that scientists are not a homogeneous bunch gives rise to various impressions. You may think no serious scientist ever considers alien life as a real possibility, but actual scientists range from wilfully blind denialists to imaginative enthusiasts concerning life in space. The latter kind cooperate with science fiction writers and may themselves be science fiction writers, such as Arthur C. Clarke, a guy with a degree on math and physics and the author of early non-fiction books titled The Exploration of Space and The Promise of Space.

From this swarm of actual scientists one may gather one's impressions. We both are blown away in different ways by the nonsense that science journals may publish, depending on our different definitions of nonsense.

  • Belfrager
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Re: The Awesomesauce with Religion
Reply #591
To (de)mystify this further, I have completely different ideas about life forms on other planets, as I have a different idea about what constitutes life at all.

To me it's indifferent if scientists searches for alien life the size of microbes or the size of galaxies.
There's no alien life. We are alone, unique into the vastness of space. That's an usual characteristic of miracles, not being the result of mass production.
A matter of attitude.

  • ersi
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Re: The Awesomesauce with Religion
Reply #592
There's no alien life.

I share your sentiment. There's no alien life, because all life, no matter where it's found in whatever shape or form, will be familiar and recognizable. JS is looking the wrong way for the wrong signs.

  • jseaton2311
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Re: The Awesomesauce with Religion
Reply #593
The fact that scientists are not a homogeneous bunch gives rise to various impressions.


You couldn't possibly be more wrong and misleading.  'Science is the pursuit and application of knowledge and understanding of the natural and social world following a systematic methodology based on evidence'.  The evidential foundation of science gets broader by the minute and is undeniable by rational/reasonable scientists and educated people alike.  Those theories, conjectures and suppositions that are not yet in evidence are where scientists will diverge.  There are hundreds of thousands of points of concurrence among scientists--I can't think of one for philosophers ( :doh:).   :knight:  :cheers:
James J

  • ersi
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Re: The Awesomesauce with Religion
Reply #594

The fact that scientists are not a homogeneous bunch gives rise to various impressions.

You couldn't possibly be more wrong and misleading.  'Science is the pursuit and application of knowledge and understanding of the natural and social world following a systematic methodology based on evidence'. 

First you have to understand what counts as evidence, then you can build on it. Provided that your understanding is correct.

I have been looking for the real-life example I once heard of a scientist who refused to revise his views despite the evidence.

The name is John Clauser. He was puzzled about quantum mechanics. He preferred Einsteinian physics and didn't buy quantum physics. One of the open problems in physics was Bell theorem, about quantum entanglement, and John Clauser devised (not alone of course) an experiment to test quantum entanglement. Clauser hoped that quantum entanglement would be disproven in the experiment. Instead, quantum entanglement was solidly proven. Clauser's experiment made him a bit famous, but he continues to doubt and denounce quantum mechanics.

I cannot find a web resource to back this story up. I saw it on TV, so it's almost as good as if read on the internet :)

My own relationship with physics has been exactly the other way around. I could not understand the ordinary Newtonian physics they teach at school. Only in the last year of high school there was a tiny touch of quantum mechanics on the last pages of the textbook and for the first time in my life I understood physics.

  • Belfrager
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Re: The Awesomesauce with Religion
Reply #595
Only in the last year of high school there was a tiny touch of quantum mechanics on the last pages of the textbook and for the first time in my life I understood physics.

Too much people speaks about quantum physics too less people understands it.
I've seen the most incredible aberrations to be written in the name of quantum physics.

Until anyone proves me that Heisenberg was wrong and why, quantum physics has to submit to his principles and strictly to what he said, not some "interpretations" made by journalists.
Of course, this is totally unrelated with religion except that the way of the Lord is a permanent mystery to the human intellect.
A matter of attitude.

  • ersi
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Re: The Awesomesauce with Religion
Reply #596

Only in the last year of high school there was a tiny touch of quantum mechanics on the last pages of the textbook and for the first time in my life I understood physics.

Too much people speaks about quantum physics too less people understands it.
I've seen the most incredible aberrations to be written in the name of quantum physics.

Such as? What examples do you have?


Until anyone proves me that Heisenberg was wrong and why, quantum physics has to submit to his principles and strictly to what he said, not some "interpretations" made by journalists.

What do you think Heisenberg said? Do you mean the uncertainty principle or something else/more?

  • Belfrager
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Re: The Awesomesauce with Religion
Reply #597
What do you think Heisenberg said? Do you mean the uncertainty principle or something else/more?

For example.
The reason Heisenberg said that is not possible to be aware where a particle is, to determinate simultaneously location and speed, was because to observing it the observer influences the phenomena. (by way of needing to project light - or any other form of energy on it.)

From such simple statement I've seen things written that goes until particles a) are at two different places simultaneously; or  b) our mind determines where particles are;
Etc, etc.

Heisenberg never said anything like that.
A matter of attitude.

  • ersi
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Re: The Awesomesauce with Religion
Reply #598
You are talking common sense. This is totally out of place here. Only people like JS can know the real meaning of science and he uses it to witch-hunt ignorant religious wackos such as us into hell where we belong.

  • Belfrager
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Re: The Awesomesauce with Religion
Reply #599
Yes... you're right. :lol:
A matter of attitude.