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Topic: The Awesomesauce with Religion (Read 151430 times)

  • Frenzie
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The Awesomesauce with Religion
I suppose we need one of these.

Edit (20-02-2014): maybe a more positive title will make some difference? :)
  • Last Edit: 2014-02-20, 18:13:52 by Frenzie

  • rjhowie
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Re: The Awesomesauce with Religion
Reply #875
Eh, ersi?

They have offered to go but are still in existence and what is the weird Nordic stuff? Chile is nowhere near northern Europe nor part of it (as well as being Protestant Faith not Popish) !
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • Mr. Tennessee
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Re: The Awesomesauce with Religion
Reply #876
Eh, ersi?

They have offered to go but are still in existence and what is the weird Nordic stuff? Chile is nowhere near northern Europe nor part of it (as well as being Protestant Faith not Popish) !
The latest on the religious front.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/style/wp/2018/05/21/feature/two-sons-of-rev-moon-have-split-from-his-church-and-their-followers-are-armed/?utm_term=.afe049fde2b8

  • rjhowie
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Re: The Awesomesauce with Religion
Reply #877
Well poor man such people have been heavily influenced by the wonderful US of A so hardly surprising. No national churches in America just loads of would-be fanatical spiritual groups. Not surprised your grey cells give you the direction you have poor soul!  :-[
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • Mr. Tennessee
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Re: The Awesomesauce with Religion
Reply #878
The lack of a national church is a plus. In Scotland?
"More Scots than ever have described themselves as having no religion, according to new research.

The Scottish Attitudes Survey, compiled by the independent research body ScotCen, found 58% of respondents said they had no religion at all.

When the survey was carried out in 1999, the figure was 40%.

Among major denominations, the Church of Scotland has seen the sharpest decline, with just 18% saying the belong to the Kirk."
Dog bless our Scottish friends.

  • rjhowie
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Re: The Awesomesauce with Religion
Reply #879
Seeing you are where you are from I will try and impart it a little more to you so muse slowly.

The rather challenging growth of your country had strong participation by a myriad nay legion of multi-evangelical peoplerather than a couple of established ones here like the CoE and the CoS and of course Jewish financial control, etc. Here we had a more generally consistent religious situation as we adapted to the world. That wee bit religious fanaticism of over the pond has had a rather weird forming of the country.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • ersi
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Re: The Awesomesauce with Religion
Reply #880

  • Frenzie
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Re: The Awesomesauce with Religion
Reply #881
What I couldn't immediately find is if they're a business or a charity?

  • ersi
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Re: The Awesomesauce with Religion
Reply #882
What I couldn't immediately find is if they're a business or a charity?
If it can go bankrupt, it is a business. Charities would just run out of steam.

  • Belfrager
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Re: The Awesomesauce with Religion
Reply #883
Of course charities can go bankrupt.
If not, who pays for the suppliers and debts? Ersi & Frenzie Co?
A matter of attitude.

  • ersi
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Re: The Awesomesauce with Religion
Reply #884
I have an austere view of charities. A charity should employ only volunteers, no wage-earners. A charity should not buy stuff, only accept what is given and pass it on. Thus debt commitments cannot accrue and a bankruptcy is impossible.

  • Frenzie
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  • Administrator
Re: The Awesomesauce with Religion
Reply #885
Charities can be insolvent and liquidated, whatever you want to call it. Of course I was surprised that it sounded like the New York Catholic diocese was a business, which is why I'm curious if it's a business or a charity (as per New York statutes).

  • Belfrager
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Re: The Awesomesauce with Religion
Reply #886
Catholic dioceses all over the world do more work helping human beings than most state institutions ever do, that you can be sure.
So it's really strange when I see people rejoicing because catholic institutions are facing financial difficulties.

As for American things specifically, they are totally out of comprehension. No comments.
A matter of attitude.

  • ersi
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Re: The Awesomesauce with Religion
Reply #887
Catholic dioceses all over the world do more work helping human beings than most state institutions ever do, that you can be sure.
Not the dioceses, but maybe Catholic orphanages and schools and what have you. Dioceses are basically a head-tax extortion racket.

  • Belfrager
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Re: The Awesomesauce with Religion
Reply #888
Dioceses are basically a head-tax extortion racket.
Wrong. Dioceses are simply the Holy Church territorial units, created by the Pope all over the world and are administrate necessarily by a Bishop.
Very important dioceses will be called archdioceses.
Just that.

As for the financial administration, I'm not sure but I think that those Bishops will report to the Cardinals they are hierarchically subjected and the Cardinals will report directly to the Vatican's financial institution. In fact many dioceses at poor countries are very very poor and the social work needs to be financed by other dioceses or by the Vatican directly.

Et voilá. No secrets à lá Dan Brown. :wine:
A matter of attitude.

  • ersi
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Re: The Awesomesauce with Religion
Reply #889
As for the financial administration, I'm not sure...

Maybe a place to start to become more sure:
The Catholic church is as big as any company in America. Bankruptcy cases have shed some light on its finances and their mismanagement

A simple fact: Bishops get salaries and there are lucrative dioceses (with rich donors) and non-lucrative.

In a charity, nobody would get a salary.

And this is not just against the Catholic Church. For example in the Nordic countries, even though they like to think of themselves as secular now, the state church still operates as the head counter, officially registering births, deaths, and marriages.

  • jax
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  • Global Moderator
Re: The Awesomesauce with Religion
Reply #890
No, that is the tax authorities. You could say they perform a similar divine role, knowing who is good, bad, or in arrears, where they live (or if they live) and who they are in family with. 

  • Belfrager
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Re: The Awesomesauce with Religion
Reply #891
Bishops get salaries
And so do priests. It's not practical to have people always behind them carrying bags full of money to pay the bills.

You seem not to know that many if not most priests are also doctors, teachers, philosophers, lawyers, economists and so on.
Most of them don't live in monasteries following a life of hermitage.

To become a simple priest you must study several years at the seminar where besides the religious studies you need to get a superior graduation in some area.

The Catholic Church is not isolated from the world, by the contrary. It needs to pay salaries, it needs to receive donations. In fact, the Church should be paid directly by the States for all the social work realized that the State doesn't do.
A matter of attitude.

  • ersi
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Re: The Awesomesauce with Religion
Reply #892
Yes, all of this is familiar to me. And what I am saying is that none of this is characteristic to a charity, given the tasks the church assumes and the way it performs them. It is a state power, the first estate in shambles.

In medieval times, the catholic church assumed itself to be above the state, with the authority to appoint kings and emperors. The protestant church became the state department of census and ideology. These days we still have significant remnants of this state-like institutionality.

The original apostolic-era church was a volunteer initiative operating like a charity as in Acts 4:32-34. These times ended as soon as popery became autocratic, orthodox patriarchs became emperor-appointed, and the church became the owner of land and serfs.

  • Belfrager
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Re: The Awesomesauce with Religion
Reply #893
And what I am saying is that none of this is characteristic to a charity,
Ok, you base your point in a definition of "charity" that is not clear at all.

We have in my country what we call IPSS meaning Private Institutions for Social Solidarity, that's the closest I know to "charities". At all of them people are paid, I know it well, I already worked for one of those.

Those Institutions have a special tax regime because they aren't considered businesses. But they have to pay their debts as anyone else. They also have volunteers that don't have a salary but can have some form of retribution like meals or housing.

Charities are like everything else, it's not possible to do a consistent job if you don't pay people. Volunteering is very nice but you can't rely exclusively on them.
The Church does the same thing.
A matter of attitude.

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: The Awesomesauce with Religion
Reply #894
I agree with your points, Bel. (But I'd rather you said, say, "remuneration" or " recompense" than "retribution" -- which carries the weight of punishment in its connotation!  Unless you meant just that, ala "No good deed goes..." :) )

Do you consider yourself, ersi, to be a Trotsky-ite ? :)
  • Last Edit: 2020-10-05, 18:55:33 by OakdaleFTL
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
No one listens to me as much as I do and even I have my limits...
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman

  • ersi
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Re: The Awesomesauce with Religion
Reply #895
In a thread about religion, I am the only one quoting scriptures. Just saying.

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: The Awesomesauce with Religion
Reply #896
Just saying.
I'll take it then that you're a baptized, and confirmed
devotee to some sect of Obscurantism...  Good to know.

Would you, will you answer my question:  Do you consider yourself, ersi, to be a Trotsky-ite ? (You should have followed the link above...)
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
No one listens to me as much as I do and even I have my limits...
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman

  • ersi
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Re: The Awesomesauce with Religion
Reply #897
@OakdaleFTL
No, I don't follow your links. When you give a link, you should either quote the relevant bit from there to here or you indicate how the whole page is totally worth reading. You are not even trying. You are off topic and irrelevant. Repetition will not help. About time for you to grow up and learn some basic internet manners.
 

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: The Awesomesauce with Religion
Reply #898
Do you ever miss your sense of humor? You lost it long before we met... Perhaps you no longer feel the lack.

I picture you as a cloistered monk -- who long ago lost his faith.

Perhaps this will help: "Brevity may be the soul of wit. But diversion and digression are the twin pleasures of conversation."
(I know you don't get the point... :) )

Quoting snippets of scripture is not a fit exercise of a healthy intellect! (It reminds me of W.C. Fields on his death-bed being caught reading the Bible! His nurse inquires, "Claude! You're not getting religion, are you?" He replies, "No, my dear. Just looking for loopholes...") I also believe humility is mentioned somewhere in the Good Book... Have you any recollection of the context of such?
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
No one listens to me as much as I do and even I have my limits...
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman

  • ersi
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Re: The Awesomesauce with Religion
Reply #899
How about this?

Mexico's president published an open letter to Pope Francis Saturday calling on the Roman Catholic Church to apologize for abuses of Indigenous peoples during the conquest of Mexico in the 1500s.

[...]

The letter comes as Mexico struggles with how to mark the 500th anniversary of the 1519-1521 conquest, which resulted in the death of a large part of the country's pre-Hispanic population.

In 2019, López Obrador asked Spain for an apology for the conquest, in which millions of Indigenous people died from violence and disease.