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Topic: Is there a police psychology problem?? (Read 82186 times)

  • rjhowie
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Is there a police psychology problem??
This latest terrible situation where the man was gunned down is horrific. Yeah, yeah, we know there are thousands of policemen over the pond who are principled and beyond reproach but time after time we have had incidents about over-reaction. And before someone jumps in about the alleged stealing of a box of cigars we should note that the police gunman did not know about that. Involved in a confrontation between the officer and the man (black as the norm) the man knelt down and raised his hands asking not to be shot. He was shot but more than once even though unarmed. When this spread into a town protest the sheriff department went bananas running about like solders - and just as I said months ago this is an increasing situation in the country.

At least the State Governor showed more wisdom than the local police acting like someone had invaded the nation. No doubt pressed by the White House but none of this should have been needed there or in the other places where we have seen pictures and film of policemen beating up people with a vengeance or shooting like cowboys. In the majority of cases the officer or officers never get done and only oddly. Isn't this way things are going a bit worrying?
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #25
He uses a couple things most people can agree on 1) You can't count on government 2)Looting is wrong in the hopes of getting people to agree to his rant. It's like the old trick in telephone sales, get the customer to agree to a couple things to make it harder to say "no" to closing the sale. The trouble is that only works if the customer simple-minded. He can't close the sale for me that this is somehow caused by Ferguson having a Democratic mayor. There are numerous economic and social factors at play.

Than there's the reason for the shooting. The autopsy showed that he was shot at least six times:



Right now there doesn't seem to be an agree about why. What we've heard from witnesses would seem to indicate the shooting was unnecessary, but we haven't heard Officer Wilson's side. If he wanted to murder a young, black man like some claim; a single shot to the head would have sufficed. That being the case, why the shots to the arm? There is a possibility that he was trying to wound Brown to subdue him before resorting to killing shots.

Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #26
.....It isn't the Democrats or Republicans that caused this......


Really??  

If not directly, then indirectly.

If the democrats set the table, supply all the eats, guess who/what overwhelmingly comes to dinner?
<hint> Those that want lotsa fee stuff, criminals who thrive on lax liberal law enforcement policy, & an overall culture of social resentment.

Care to refute the historical results of democrat big city rule?



Quote from:      http://tinyurl.com/lcr9l79    


<2008>

Why is it that every Democratic run city has the highest crime rates??

For example, Detroit, whose mayor has been indicted on felony charges, hasn't elected a Republican mayor since 1961. Buffalo has been even more stubborn. It started putting a Democrat in office back in 1954, and it hasn't stopped since.

Unfortunately, those two cities may be alone at the top of the poverty rate list, but they're not alone in their love for Democrats. Cincinnati, Ohio (third on the poverty rate list), hasn't had a Republican mayor since 1984. Cleveland, Ohio (fourth on the list), has been led by a Democrat since 1989. St. Louis, Missouri (sixth), hasn't had a Republican since 1949, Milwaukee, Wisconsin (eighth), since 1908, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania (ninth), since 1952 and Newark, New Jersey (10th), since 1907.

The only two cities in the top 10 that I didn't mention (Miami, Florida, and El Paso, Texas) haven't had Republicans in office either -- just Democrats, independents or nonpartisans.

Over the past 50 years, the eight cities listed above have had Republican leadership for a combined 36 years. The rest of the time -- a combined 364 years -- they've been led by Democrats.

Five of the 10 cities with the highest poverty rates (Detroit, Buffalo, St. Louis, Milwaukee, Philadelphia and Newark) have had a Democratic stranglehold since at least 1961: more than 45 years. Two of the cities (Milwaukee and Newark) have been electing Democrats since the first Model T rolled off the assembly line in 1908.

Two cities, 100 years, all Democrats.

If the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result, the asylums in those cities must be as full as the soup kitchens.............continued

  • Last Edit: 2014-08-18, 21:29:33 by SmileyFaze

  • rjhowie
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Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #27
Some of the more red neck answers here border on the disgusting.

Instead of slagging me off for what the television "says" the immutable fact that an unarmed man on his knees got 6 damn bullets pumped into him is less important than the ranting off into an un-principled stance.  It is also obvious but not to at least two here that local people and the police have a very wide chasm and not eased by the Sherrie whimpering on about the policeman having a good record. Well that man hasn't got it now constantly pumping bullets into the victim. It doesn't take the media to show there is something very wrong here.  Instead I get this baloney because i challenge things that I am entitled to challenge. How in a sensible review excuses are made for the 6 bullets pumped into the man are beyond common sense.

As for wider con-nations the unfortunate and gradual state of so much of the police service becoming more militarised should be a deep concern for thinking people. There is also a wider problem with the number of such events with vicious beating ups, fusillades of shots, etc. The militarising of the police is even more in your face when you consider that each year the Pentagon allocates just under half a billion dollars to armaments for the police!

Sadly, there is a deepening problem and now a town has to have actual soliders in it. The policeman involved needs to be faced with something having shot the man to bits.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • ensbb3
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Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #28
red neck

I'm a hillbilly, if you're wishing to address me with a slur. We've been over that. (also it's: redneck)

I've called your view ignorant. And it is. You've no concern for how much money the media is making covering this in a fashion that gets both sides to watch. But if you're gonna cry I'll leave ya be on this, pops.

As for wider con-nations the unfortunate and gradual state of so much of the police service becoming more militarised should be a deep concern for thinking people. There is also a wider problem with the number of such events with vicious beating ups, fusillades of shots, etc. The militarising of the police is even more in your face when you consider that each year the Pentagon allocates just under half a billion dollars to armaments for the police!


This point was brought up by the media days ago. To an extent I can agree and if this conversation was actually over police psychology I'd raise points here. But I'd also compare it to British police running, turning areas over to hooligans, and wonder if that didn't have farther reaching consequences.  

Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #29
Instead of slagging me off for what the television "says" the immutable fact that an unarmed man on his knees got 6 damn bullets pumped into him is less important......


Actually, it is less important -- less important to the long term future of Ferguson & similar places.

Him being dead can't & won't be undone.

All the social outcries, the arm flailing, the rioting, the pillaging, & all the mayhem in the world won't bring that dead black boy back from the dead like Lazarus.

How he died, & why he died, need to be delved into, understood, & then in the end people, after deep deliberations, need to come to some realistic conclusions to act upon -- on how to try & avoid this from happening again -- learn from the mistakes, instead of repeating them.

If not, it's bound to happen again, & again, & again........


  • Last Edit: 2014-08-19, 01:00:58 by SmileyFaze

  • rjhowie
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Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #30
Actually ensbb3 you are kind of insulting hill billies when one considers the origins of their name. Both you and SmileyFaze show a rather sickening side of America in your attitude to the killing in Ferguson. So he is dead so tough let us get on with life? The man had no weapon the cop knew nothing about the 40 cigars incident and he riddled an unarmed man with 6 bullets? The policeman should be investigated and damn well charged but then as you are becoming more and more of a police state and that big sum dished out by the Pentagon and the attitude of too many officers shows how dangerous the land of heroes is in practice. Why does your country have to take half a billion to give police an army appearance? Things must be worse than i thought.   Pathetic. However on the wider stance many Americans will be shocked and disgusted at yet another violent police incident. That you lot attach no importance to the over the top killing does your side any credit and police more and more like soldiers your future is not a rosy one. I dare say that the black man gunned down could have been arrested for stealing 40 cigars but killing an unarmed black man is fine and dandy. What a hellhole attitude.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • ensbb3
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Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #31
I see why the tv is your primary source of information... You ain't good with reading. Do show me where I said it's no big deal someone died? I've spoke to why he might of been perceived as a threat. You're the one picking sides, so you can America bash and nothing else. 

Perhaps you can put your orange sash on and repeat your concerns for this man?

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #32
It's a Howie specialty, that old "Onto-Americanism" ... :)
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
No one listens to me as much as I do and even I have my limits...
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman

Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #33
Care to refute the historical results of democrat big city rule?
You know, I'm not going to argue this with you. I think you must know better then this. Las Vegas continues to be ruled by the Democratic Goodmen "dynasty" and we don't even make the top 100 most dangerous cities, yet Republican cities do (And the Republicans didn't cause that either)

  • jax
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  • Global Moderator
Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #34
How we'd cover Ferguson if it happened in another country
Quote
How would American media cover the news from Ferguson, Missouri, if it were happening in just about any other country? How would the world respond differently? Here, to borrow a great idea from Slate's Joshua Keating, is a satirical take on the story you might be reading if Ferguson were in, say, Iraq or Pakistan.

FERGUSON -- Chinese and Russian officials are warning of a potential humanitarian crisis in the restive American province of Missouri, where ancient communal tensions have boiled over into full-blown violence.

"We must use all means at our disposal to end the violence and restore calm to the region," Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said in comments to an emergency United Nations Security Council session on the America crisis.

The crisis began a week ago in Ferguson, a remote Missouri village that has been a hotbed of sectarian tension. State security forces shot and killed an unarmed man, which regional analysts say has angered the local population by surfacing deep-seated sectarian grievances. Regime security forces cracked down brutally on largely peaceful protests, worsening the crisis.

America has been roiled by political instability and protests in recent years, which analysts warn can create fertile ground for extremists.

Missouri, far-removed from the glistening capital city of Washington, is ostensibly ruled by a charismatic but troubled official named Jay Nixon, who has appeared unable to successfully intervene and has resisted efforts at mediation from central government officials. Complicating matters, President Obama is himself a member of the minority sect protesting in Ferguson, which is ruled overwhelmingly by members of America's majority "white people" sect.

Analysts who study the opaque American political system, in which all provinces are granted semi-autonomous self-rule, warned that Nixon may seize the opportunity to move against weakened municipal rulers in Ferguson. Missouri's provincial legislature, a traditional "shura council," is dominated by the opposition faction. Though fears of a military coup remain low, it is still unknown how Nixon's allies within the capital will respond should the crisis continue.

Now, international leaders say they fear the crisis could spread.

  • Belfrager
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Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #35
An unarmed and handcuffed man at point-blank range requires one bullet. They are trained to fire multiple rounds at a threat then gauge the threat level from there.

Symptomatic words.

Symptomatic of a culture where people are seen as targets to be hunt, where people killed are photographed with their killers proudly showing their weapons and smiling over the corpses, where taking a life produces congratulations, where, basically, there's no respect for human life, property considered being above life.

A culture where the police can be executioners, where shoot first and ask later seems to be defensible, a culture made of fear, violence and savagery.

Stop police brutality.
A matter of attitude.

  • krake
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Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #36
Was George Zimmerman hired by the police of Ferguson?

Hit 6 times, 4 shots in the right arm and 2 shots in the head. Two shots indicating that they were fired from the back.
Strange way to deal with an unarmed young man. However it's not for the first and probably neither for the last time it happens.

  • ensbb3
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Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #37
A culture where the police can be executioners, where shoot first and ask later seems to be defensible, a culture made of fear, violence and savagery.


Pure propaganda. This statement only wants to see what you want to think. Meaning if the officer is at fault you feel justified in believing the same thing you say he felt. If not, and the officer is acquitted, justice wasn't served.


Strange way to deal with an unarmed young man.

I'm curious. Why is an 'unarmed man' never a threat? At what point does a combination of bad decisions mean yet another bad decision could of been he attacked an officer who then had to use deadly force?

I'm willing to go either way. If the officer is found guilty there'll be no riots. Had this happened in Texas or Arizona I may even be leaning towards excessive deadly force being used. But in St. Louis? It's less likely, but not impossible. There seems to be a deep misunderstanding of what officers go through on a daily basis and why force would be used.


  • ensbb3
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Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #38
To change focus a bit to what is considered peaceful and nonresistant...

The crowd was given due warning to clear the streets. (peaceful protest isn't blocking off a neighborhood after 9pm) They are suiting up for what they know is coming and calling it peaceful because they are willing to take police's attempts to reclaim the streets. All the man with the camera wants to do is talk about what he believes is wrong without any understanding why the police would come reclaim a street after dark, when looting was the last consequence. The man then says they have no where to go... Dispersing as requested was never an option apparently.

Listen to the man @6:00mins in. He's not talking about the police.
  • Last Edit: 2014-08-19, 18:55:36 by ensbb3

  • Belfrager
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Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #39

A culture where the police can be executioners, where shoot first and ask later seems to be defensible, a culture made of fear, violence and savagery.


Pure propaganda. This statement only wants to see what you want to think. Meaning if the officer is at fault you feel justified in believing the same thing you say he felt. If not, and the officer is acquitted, justice wasn't served.

Pure propaganda it's what you're doing. The most incredible justification I ever seen, since police will be always criticized then let them keep on killing people...

Anyway, American citizens being beaten, tortured or killed by American police with or without  the applause of the American public, it's not my problem.
I believe in self determination so let Americans do whatever they like.

There will be many other killings to satisfy everybody.

Since I like to discuss with you, I hope you don't turn into a mere cromagnon-like-police decision if you live or die.
Mr police don't shoot this one, I still have to discuss with him.
A matter of attitude.

  • ensbb3
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Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #40
Mr police don't shoot this one, I still have to discuss with him.

I'm not going to commit crime, fight police or block any public streets... You'll have me around for some time yet. ;)

  • krake
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Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #41

To change focus a bit to what is considered peaceful and nonresistant...

One from abroad might still wonder - how comes that a peaceful little town turns over night into a plundering community transforming the place into a war zone.
Wasn't it triggered by something or is it just simply coincidence? Bad Karma?

  • ensbb3
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Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #42
One from abroad might still wonder - how comes that a peaceful little town turns over night into a plundering community transforming the place into a war zone.
Wasn't it triggered by something or is it just simply coincidence? Bad Karma?


Ah, now we're getting into an earlier statement I made on culture. I'm not saying they don't have a right to protest. Only this isn't how it's done. (Not what Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr would of condoned either, and may be he had more cause to feel resentment.) Listen to the crowd's comments in the video for a glimpse into their mindset. "Fuck you pigs go home!"? (Pot vs Kettle) Wonder why they are so resistant to proper procedure? How many of them pay taxes and feel their interests are represented? How justified is that feeling?

  • Belfrager
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Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #43
How many of them pay taxes

Paying taxes is not a condition for citizenship.
Just to remember you that while you are still alive. :)
A matter of attitude.

  • ensbb3
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Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #44
Paying taxes is not a condition for citizenship.


Of course not. They get taken care of because they are citizens. This breeds entitlement to block a road after dark their tax money didn't pay for, though. The way the system is setup even hurts the family unit and causes these people to not understand why when something isn't just given to them because they want it they can't just take it. Officer's charged and paid by tax payers now have to regain the public street. If that was one man with a sign and a point it would be easy to say they should remove him. But in a crowd there is a threat of violence. (After all they did holler back they could do that too and throw back flares.) Mob rule gains more entitlement, justified or not. The law and procedures established long before this say what police can and will do. Why is that not considered? This same protest can be legal if they took the time to do it right.

  • Belfrager
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Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #45
The law and procedures established long before this say what police can and will do. Why is that not considered? This same protest can be legal if they took the time to do it right.

That mob is rioting and rioting it's not characterized by doing the "legal thing", is it?

But they put you a problem, the more you treat them as a riot, the more they present themselves victimized... that's the obvious procedure. The only way of solving it it's by doing what should have been already done in the first place, a severe attitude towards the killing. Then, promise things, anything, you are not going to accomplish it anyway....

If not, it will be exploited until the end of days.
Racial problems are very complicated and the USA sits on a racial barrel of powder.
A matter of attitude.

  • ensbb3
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Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #46
I'm giving a slight nod to what they think it is. I will ask you to consider I'm almost as detached from this as you. Except for how the national guard is deployed there's little I and like minded people in my state can do. Even then iirc a governor had limited control of them in his state. I'll agree there could of been a better response or even action taken by the officer, from where I'm sitting. But I'm sitting outside of it. My concerns are that whatever happens my state learns and acts better.

----> Is there actually a 'culture of injustice' perception problem??
Reply #47
.......One from abroad might still wonder - how comes that a peaceful little town turns over night into a plundering community transforming the place into a war zone.
Wasn't it triggered by something or is it just simply coincidence?


What you're witnessing is an overall culture of social resentment  -- a total resentment of all established authority.

It comes about from years of social projects. Projects that once meant well, but have gone way way wrong.

It comes about when people's needs are provided for, by government, for nothing of value in exchange -- year after year.

When those same governments promise "Change", but they only provide more of the same.

These payments, gifts, & grants by the government aren't actually made to free the people who are receiving them from the burdens of life.

No, it's being done to enslave them, to hold their votes in a death grip, & to fear what they are being told -- told that at any time, the evildoers might come & steal their entitlements away.

Yes, they feel that they are entitled to all these benefits --- payments --- freebies.

They claim them as theirs.

They venomously resent the control government puts on them, but still they demand their entitlements -- bought & paid for by their votes.

It doesn't require a dead teen to set things off like this.

All that's needed is any perceived authority intruding upon them -- telling them what they must or must not do, & any act thereafter will provide them all the excuse they need to rise up act the way they are.

Naturally, the more serious the perception, the more provocative the intrusion, the more incendiary the threat, the more explosive the response will be to any governmental authority.

They feel taken for granted -- enslaved -- wrongfully & deceitfully beholden to their governmental masters for what belongs to them -  their perceived entitlements.

The "Main Stream Media", & their own so called "religious & political leaders", repeatedly tell them that anyone rich is unjust & evil, that banks & business are all unjust & evil, that all authority is unjust & evil, that the white man is unjust & evil .....etc....etc.... day in & day out.... year after year ..... all their lives.

Lies told often enough becomes the truth --- truth in the minds of those being constantly told, especially when they are weakened by despair & the promises of "Change" that never comes their way.

No, it doesn't require a dead teen to set things off like this.

As I previously said, all that's needed is any perceived authority intruding upon them -- telling them what they must or must not do, & any act thereafter will provide them all the excuse they need to rise up act the way they are.

In the simplest of terms, it's the voice of an overall "Culture of Social Resentment", brought on, & perpetuated by, years of socially progressive & liberal governments.

They will reap what they sow.

The chickens have come home to roost..........
  • Last Edit: 2014-08-19, 21:57:06 by SmileyFaze

  • rjhowie
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Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #48
What needs to happen is a definite enquiry into the actions of the pole officer concerned as his actions hardly look balanced or reasonable. It also seems that although 50% of the town is back not one Negro is on the town council. On top of that the polce with over 50 officers has only 3 blacks.There are always those who will use any situation for other purposes but basically the two concerns are as follows.

(1) There must be a wider investigation into the officer who fired 6 shots into the man including 2 in the head. This may require ana level above Ferguson in view of the long friction between half the population and it's service.

(2) Why are so many police forces across the nation becoming paramilitary. Heavy weaponry, vehicles like those used in Afghanistan the right to use snipers against unarmed people in a conflict and other hard measures. With so many police departments right across the spectrum including small towns  becoming like soldiers it starts to appear like a police state more than anything. That too should be a worry. So everyone needs to know when the officer is going to be officially and properly investigated. Time after time there have been incidents elsewhere wher many policemen get off with what they shouldn't. This does not help a community and is overdue for a review. Officers are not above the law or there to act as if they were it and can do what they like.

The family need to have the dreadful killing in the special circumstances dealt with by the authorities. One can only hope that will prevail.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #49
Maybe we should do it the British way: Cameras on every street corner; take 'em up and lock 'em away without trial whenever we think it's warranted... Parliament will never broach the subject!
And an honest Scotsman is always too dumb to know what's happened.
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
No one listens to me as much as I do and even I have my limits...
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman