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Topic: Is there a police psychology problem?? (Read 82190 times)

  • rjhowie
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Is there a police psychology problem??
This latest terrible situation where the man was gunned down is horrific. Yeah, yeah, we know there are thousands of policemen over the pond who are principled and beyond reproach but time after time we have had incidents about over-reaction. And before someone jumps in about the alleged stealing of a box of cigars we should note that the police gunman did not know about that. Involved in a confrontation between the officer and the man (black as the norm) the man knelt down and raised his hands asking not to be shot. He was shot but more than once even though unarmed. When this spread into a town protest the sheriff department went bananas running about like solders - and just as I said months ago this is an increasing situation in the country.

At least the State Governor showed more wisdom than the local police acting like someone had invaded the nation. No doubt pressed by the White House but none of this should have been needed there or in the other places where we have seen pictures and film of policemen beating up people with a vengeance or shooting like cowboys. In the majority of cases the officer or officers never get done and only oddly. Isn't this way things are going a bit worrying?
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • Belfrager
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Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #50
Why are so many police forces across the nation becoming paramilitary. Heavy weaponry, vehicles like those used in Afghanistan the right to use snipers against unarmed people in a conflict and other hard measures.

You touch the fundamental point, because populations are considered the enemy at this brave New Order.
Polices all over the world are getting heavily armed for offering people flowers? to help children to cross the street?

The New Nazism doesn't build concentration camps, it uses the world as a single concentration camp.







A matter of attitude.

  • ensbb3
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Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #51
What needs to happen is a definite enquiry into the actions of the pole officer concerned as his actions hardly look balanced or reasonable.


I had assumed the family filed a wrongful death lawsuit but all I can find is one from the ACLU.

Maybe we should do it the British way: Cameras on every street corner


I'm a little surprised there isn't dash-cam footage. It is a bit concerning the police have armored vehicles but a simple dash-cam and microphone in the squad car is missing. Plenty of force available to keep the public accountable but none for the officers? A camera or even audio alone would of stopped this from getting out of hand from the jump. If he was attacked and pushed into his squad car where a struggle led to the use of deadly force it would be proven easily that way. Whether or not it was excessive may be disputable if the dash-cam missed the shooting but only to a point. In some jurisdictions a willingness to fight police and even go for their weapon is considered an immanent threat to public safety and deadly force is authorized. Youtube is littered with dash-cam footage of officers handing it better but as the suspect flees more lives get put in danger and it ends sometime later the same way, with the suspect shot.    

  • mjmsprt40
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  • undocumented space alien
Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #52

What needs to happen is a definite enquiry into the actions of the pole officer concerned as his actions hardly look balanced or reasonable.


I had assumed the family filed a wrongful death lawsuit but all I can find is one from the ACLU.

Maybe we should do it the British way: Cameras on every street corner


I'm a little surprised there isn't dash-cam footage. It is a bit concerning the police have armored vehicles but a simple dash-cam and microphone in the squad car is missing. Plenty of force available to keep the public accountable but none for the officers? A camera or even audio alone would of stopped this from getting out of hand from the jump. If he was attacked and pushed into his squad car where a struggle led to the use of deadly force it would be proven easily that way. Whether or not it was excessive may be disputable if the dash-cam missed the shooting but only to a point. In some jurisdictions a willingness to fight police and even go for their weapon is considered an immanent threat to public safety and deadly force is authorized. Youtube is littered with dash-cam footage of officers handing it better but as the suspect flees more lives get put in danger and it ends sometime later the same way, with the suspect shot.  


I've recently heard of one better. The policeman wears a "helmet cam" or "visor cam" that sees what the policeman sees. The departments that do this do it for the officer's own protection, in a "he said/she said" incident the helmet cam shows what the officer was facing, and as long as he handles himself professionally the footage would serve to exonerate him in an altercation like the one we have that started this one. As it is, right now the only real defense the officer has is the tendency of the law-abiding public to believe the officer rather than the rioters.
What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!

  • Belfrager
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Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #53
Nice, people even asks for being controlled filmed...
There was a time when photographing or filming required people's authorization...
A matter of attitude.

  • ensbb3
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Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #54
There was a time when photographing or filming required people's authorization...


That's a bit old fashion but still enforced in some states. In regards to public safety and accountability it's more a no-brainer. The account of the people involved is still very much needed to satisfy law and due process. However, to say a suspect needs to give permission for a law officer to gather evidence, in public, against them is silly. Same goes for citizens, in public, filming officers. Laws have to grow with technology and lots of people have a device in their pocket that can start a video recording within seconds of anything they may later have to say they saw.

  • Belfrager
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Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #55
Laws have to grow with technology

Laws have to subject to moral codes and nothing else. Filming people without their authorization it's a disrespect for people's dignity no matter what purposes it's supposed to be.

Right were the Indians when believing that photographs destroys the soul. Police photographing you destroys your freedom.
A police that makes people willing to be filmed for their own security it's not a police force but an instrument of terror. As obvious.
The solution it's not to force people to be filmed but to change such abusive police methods.

People have been doctrinized so much that they not realize anymore how deep into this nightmare they are. As usual, good faith and good intentions are what fuels repression. It's for your own security says The Voice....
A matter of attitude.

Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #56
'A dozen witnesses' say Ferguson teen attacked cop before shooting

Quote from:     New York Post   http://tinyurl.com/p8tag2g    

Multiple witnesses in riot-torn Ferguson, Mo., said that the unarmed black teen killed by a white cop attacked the officer in his patrol car before the teen was shot, according to a new report...............continued


Slowly, the pieces of the puzzle might be coming together.

Too bad this police department doesn't protect it's officers with dash-cam's & the like.

It's my guess that if they did have dash-cams or body-cams all this needless  speculation & accusation would have been unnecessary.

Corroborating independent witness statements --- numerous witnesses directly from the affected community ---
would go a long way to recount the actual facts pertaining to this unfortunate event,
instead of some of the emotionally charged & imaginative speculation presented to date.
  • Last Edit: 2014-08-20, 19:26:48 by SmileyFaze

Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #57
As a follow-up to my previous post:

Missouri cop was badly beaten before shooting Michael Brown, says source

Quote from:      FoxNews     http://tinyurl.com/pc2g4ye 

Darren Wilson, the Ferguson, Mo., police officer whose fatal shooting of Michael Brown touched off more than a week of demonstrations, suffered severe facial injuries, including an orbital (eye socket) fracture, and was nearly beaten unconscious by Brown moments before firing his gun, a source close to the department's top brass told FoxNews.com.

"The Assistant (Police) Chief took him to the hospital, his face all swollen on one side," said the insider. "He was beaten very severely."

According to the well-placed source, Wilson was coming off another case in the neighborhood on Aug. 9 when he ordered Michael Brown and his friend Dorain Johnson to stop walking in the middle of the road because they were obstructing traffic. However, the confrontation quickly escalated into physical violence, the source said..

"They ignored him and the officer started to get out of the car to tell them to move," the source said. "They shoved him right back in, that's when Michael Brown leans in and starts beating Officer Wilson in the head and the face.

The source claims that there is "solid proof" that there was a struggle between Brown and Wilson for the policeman's firearm, resulting in the gun going off - although it still remains unclear at this stage who pulled the trigger. Brown started to walk away according to the account, prompting Wilson to draw his gun and order him to freeze. Brown, the source said, raised his hands in the air, and turned around saying, "What, you're going to shoot me?"

At that point, the source told FoxNews.com, the 6 foot, 4 inch, 292-pound Brown charged Wilson, prompting the officer to fire at least six shots at him, including the fatal bullet that penetrated the top of Brown's skull, according to an independent autopsy conducted at the request of Brown's family.


Wilson suffered a fractured eye socket in the fracas, and was left dazed by the initial confrontation, the source said. He is now "traumatized, scared for his life and his family, injured and terrified" that a grand jury, which began hearing evidence on Wednesday, will "make some kind of example out of him," the source said.........continued


As time goes on, I believe more facts will come to the forefront.

If you were that officer, & this account is corroborated, if you were that officer, who had just been beaten badly, ordered the suspect to "freeze", & the suspect not only completely ignored that order, but instead turned toward you & then charged you, would you -- as that officer -- feel threatened with grievous bodily harm, & maybe worse?   Would you think your life was in danger, especially after being severely beaten by this 6 foot, 4 inch, 292-pound thug once already?

Well, think about that for a few moments. 

Now, what do you think?

If all these accounts were corroborated as fact, might you have fired if you were that officer?
  • Last Edit: 2014-08-20, 20:43:09 by SmileyFaze

  • mjmsprt40
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Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #58
The idea of the policeman wearing a camera has to do with what happens in Internal Affairs when a case like this happens. The cop says he shot in self-defense, a dozen people in the neighborhood say it was cold-blooded murder. Which was it? The camera footage would help a lot to clear that up. That footage could be evidence either for or against the officer involved. Now, if the cop chose not to wear the cam because he knew what he was about to do-- that wouldn't sit well with anybody and would call into question what exactly he did or did not do to defuse the situation. But, for professional police officers who take their oaths seriously, a body-cam could save a lot of trouble when Internal Affairs has to investigate, and when/if the DA has to get involved. For guys who wear the uniform and carry a badge so they can push people around--- we need to get rid of those SOBs anyway. The cameras would sooner or later reveal those guys for what they are.
What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!

Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #59
..........professional police officers who take their oaths seriously, a body-cam could save a lot of trouble when Internal Affairs has to investigate, and when/if the DA has to get involved. For guys who wear the uniform and carry a badge so they can push people around--- we need to get rid of those SOBs anyway. The cameras would sooner or later reveal those guys for what they are.


Agreed! 

  • ensbb3
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Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #60
Right were the Indians when believing that photographs destroys the soul.


Lmao, don't worry. I won't let the white man steal your shadow.

Although, that is my point. Their culture had no experience with such things and beliefs that led to a warped understanding. Just as old fashion folks come from a time where cameras were bulkier and less common. I'm not fond of unscheduled photo-shoots either. In a world where they are more common the next generation will be. And when something they've captured helps solve something that wouldn't of been solved in our time the justification will make itself. Such is the way of things. :) 

  • mjmsprt40
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Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #61
I just ran across this blog as part of my daily look-see at what other people are writing over by the place I keep my blog these days. This guy is a LEO serving near-- but not in-- Ferguson. Writing about ordinary things you might expect an LEO that takes his oath seriously to write. Read it, and see that not all the police there are vicious thugs-- regardless of what some media and certain Scotsmen want you to think.

http://donofalltrades.com/2014/08/19/meanwhile-just-outside-of-ferguson/
What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #62
Thanks for the valuable contribution to our understanding about this tragic situation, mjm.
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
No one listens to me as much as I do and even I have my limits...
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman

Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #63
And now shit storm prepares to upgrade to a shit hurricane. Meanwhile just outside of Ferguson, in Saint Louis a man was gunned down by police (do notice the source, Oakdale.)  The police claim he was three to four feet away from them brandishing a knife overhand. The included video of the incident appears to show no such thing. After that, the police handcuffed the corpse. From the narration, the offense was stealing two sodas.

I remember Smileyfaze complaining before about a man with gun in his car getting arrested for it. Like I said at the time, that guy was lucky to get out of the incident alive. The police in some departments are trigger-happy these days. Las Vegas MetroPD are notorious for it.

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #64
The police in some departments are trigger-happy these days.

If your brush were just a wee-bit bigger, you could candy-stripe the moon, Sang... Here is a local newspaper story. Now, let's wait to see what is determined to have happened. (I'm especially interested to hear about the knife...) Of course, you think it was over a couple of sodas, Sang. :(
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
No one listens to me as much as I do and even I have my limits...
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman

  • jax
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Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #65
Reminiscences from the correspondent of Die Welt, the well-known rabble-rousing rag and consort of communists (Axel Springer was the German Murdoch).

The day the U.S. police became my enemy
Quote
For me this is an entirely new experience. I have been in several conflict zones: I was in civil war regions in Georgia, in Gaza, I illegally entered the Kaliningrad region when the then Soviet Union strictly prohibited access to westerners; I was in Afghanistan, in Iraq, in Vietnam and in China; I secretly met dissidents in Cuba. But to end up arrested and roughly treated and snarled at by police and see the actual inside of a prison - for that I had to travel to Ferguson and St. Louis in Missouri in the United States of America. [...]

The numbness in the wrists is gone, and this absurd interlude will certainly trigger no nightmares for me. No one shot at us, no one really brutalized us. But my childlike trust in the police, my belief that - even in the USA, which I have always so passionately defended from their many critics - the police, despite their often harsh and unsympathetic manners, is your friend and helper - that belief is gone.


Wrongful arrest isn't an unheard-of phenomena, but establishment correspondents normally avoid this fate. It is something about something called the freedom of press, and about picking up erudite vipers by their tail.

Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #66
Of course, you think it was over a couple of sodas, Sang:(

Quote
Powell walked out of the Six Stars Market, at 8701 Riverview, without paying for two energy drinks, and the store owner told him to stop. A few minutes later, Powell came back and took a package of muffins or pastries, Dotson said, adding that the store owner walked out with him and asked him to pay for the items. 
My mistake. Energy drinks and muffins. You really don't understand the problem do you? Further, you think I'm automatically siding with Powell. In fact, I'm merely pointing toward another maelstrom with police saying one thing and an eyewitness video showing something completely different.

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #67
You really don't understand the problem do you?

An agitated, perhaps drug-addled or otherwise deranged, man said to have a knife moving towards police officers after being told to stop? Yes, that's a problem.
The rest will come out, eventually.

Are you right, that more trouble is likely? Probably. ("Protestors" from California and New York have been among those arrested in Ferguson... "Never let a crisis go to waste!") And unfortunately.
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
No one listens to me as much as I do and even I have my limits...
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman

  • krake
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Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #68

Reminiscences from the correspondent of Die Welt, the well-known rabble-rousing rag and consort of communists (Axel Springer was the German Murdoch).

Speaking of Axel Springer - one of its corporate principles:
- To support the Transatlantic Alliance, and solidarity with the United States of America in the common values of free nations - which translates: no negative/critical comments are welcomed

Ironically, more than one Axel Springer reporter got arrested and become acquainted with teargas and rubber bullets.
This one is from BILD.

Reminds me of a saying: A police baton on the skull can cause a greater learning effect than thousand ideological lectures.

  • Belfrager
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Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #69
It is something about something called the freedom of press

When people overlaps the right to shoot to the right to live, how would they bother with such ethereal things as freedom of press...

Weren't the French so naive and they would had offered a statue of Billy the Kid, not Liberty.
A matter of attitude.

Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #70
Watch it on the bottom of the Reason article. Very little about it matches the official account: I don't see a knife being held in over-hand fashion and his hands are actually by his side. Powell paces before the police arrive, perhaps he saw them coming. You assume he was deranged or drug-addled, just as the protesters assume the police just shot him in cold blood; as you continue to miss the fire for the smoke. The real crises is not the shooting themselves, but the conditions that led to them and the subsequent protests. What you have here is tinderbox of economic and social problems that's just looking for a spark to set it off. In short, you're thinking way too small.

  • Belfrager
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Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #71
For curiosity, was the police man arrested?

I ask because here if a police kills someone he's immediately unarmed and arrested because an homicide it's always an homicide being the perpetrator a police or not.
He will be presented to court that decides if the police followed the procedures that allows him, at exceptional circumstances and with no other available solution, to shoot anyone.
A matter of attitude.

  • ersi
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Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #72

For curiosity, was the police man arrested?

In the Nordic countries a policeman who uses his gun on duty gets some time off immediately. You can call it detention. The idea is to help him recover from the shock. The remedy is counselling and some such.

I wouldn't be surprised if the American equivalent were the injection of some legal drugs. In this case it's likely that the policeman has been transferred to a secret location away from the maddened crowd.

  • mjmsprt40
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  • undocumented space alien
Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #73
Here, there's sure to be an investigation. An officer's gun was discharged in the line of duty, a suspect died in this case under questionable circumstances, Internal Affairs gets involved and investigates and the officer(s) involved are at the least placed on "desk duty" until the matter is cleared up. This is where dash-cams and body-cams come into their own, the cameras allow IA to see what REALLY happened rather than having to separate the officer's word from witnesses (if any) word-- and with video evidence, just maybe get real justice done.
What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!

  • ensbb3
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Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #74
My mistake. Energy drinks and muffins. You really don't understand the problem do you? Further, you think I'm automatically siding with Powell. In fact, I'm merely pointing toward another maelstrom with police saying one thing and an eyewitness video showing something completely different.


Looks a bit like suicide by police. He may of even picked this moment as the time to make a statement with his suicidal wishes. This is exactly what you do if you wanna get shot. People have also been shot for acting like their cell phone was a gun. These things do happen.

Odd the crowd starts chanting "Hands up, don't shoot!" when what this man said was "Shoot me, go ahead and shoot!".

Tasers aren't always effective against larger deranged suspects. More than one dash-cam video of a cop simply pissing a man off with a taser and getting a beating for it.

Out of all the shots fired there's no telling how many hit nor is it always obvious from the gunner's position if you made contact. He did move towards the officers as shots rang out and that he had a knife seems confirmed, Just as with a taser a few rounds can only piss off an attacker. He was alive initially and firing stopped when he was down and unlikely to recover to continue an attack.

Clear case of no one understanding what they just saw. Horrible, yes. Could the officer's of risked their lives more to subdue the man, yes. But the law says they don't have to. Was this over the energy drinks and muffin? No.

  • Last Edit: 2014-08-21, 18:22:11 by ensbb3