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Topic: Is there a police psychology problem?? (Read 83872 times)

  • rjhowie
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Is there a police psychology problem??
This latest terrible situation where the man was gunned down is horrific. Yeah, yeah, we know there are thousands of policemen over the pond who are principled and beyond reproach but time after time we have had incidents about over-reaction. And before someone jumps in about the alleged stealing of a box of cigars we should note that the police gunman did not know about that. Involved in a confrontation between the officer and the man (black as the norm) the man knelt down and raised his hands asking not to be shot. He was shot but more than once even though unarmed. When this spread into a town protest the sheriff department went bananas running about like solders - and just as I said months ago this is an increasing situation in the country.

At least the State Governor showed more wisdom than the local police acting like someone had invaded the nation. No doubt pressed by the White House but none of this should have been needed there or in the other places where we have seen pictures and film of policemen beating up people with a vengeance or shooting like cowboys. In the majority of cases the officer or officers never get done and only oddly. Isn't this way things are going a bit worrying?
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • rjhowie
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Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #75
Can i remind Sanguinemoon again that the killer cop was NOT aware of the shop incident. Let's say there was a punch up between the man and the policeman what sort of mentality is there that says it is okay for the cop to fire 6 bullets into the man? There is a deep flaw in such red neck attitudes. Time after time there have been rogue policemen and sometimes filmed (liked a squad of them punching and kicking someone, etc) That military vehicles are needed even in small towns either indicates how dangerous the country is or that against that corner the police think they are the law.  Last night there was a shocking news film of a cop (not in Ferguson uniform but a darker one) with a heavy miliyary style weapon in the firing position up at his shoulder. He was pointing in turn at eachh of the press men taking pictures as they walked the street. Hewa so over the top that you seen a Ferguson officer gently touching him on the shoulder and indicating to lower the thin and move away. He was a very intimidating man. In general it is a rather sad situation that the police are becoming more military in their approach, equipment and transport. Getting truncheons out happens very quickly too often as well. Throw in the military being involved and one has to wonder if the militarising of the police and it's support is not only to be questioned but challenged. The country surely does not need that attitude?

Those that think that bruising a cop's face requires 6 bullets have a moral problem that all decent citizenry will be genuinely concerned on.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • ensbb3
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Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #76
Those that think that bruising a cop's face requires 6 bullets have a moral problem that all decent citizenry will be genuinely concerned on.


Cute commentary but I'm willing to bet putting you in the officer's place it ends the same way.
  • Last Edit: 2014-08-21, 18:49:11 by ensbb3

  • ensbb3
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Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #77
Wrongful arrest isn't an unheard-of phenomena, but establishment correspondents normally avoid this fate. It is something about something called the freedom of press, and about picking up erudite vipers by their tail.


The video I posted of the protest/riot was filmed by a YouTube reporter. They are all over this stuff as if they are actual reporters. Their presence and seeming agreement with the rioters are creating justification for the actions while they are getting paid nicely to do so. They are getting views from an ever growing amount of people that don't understand they aren't actual credible reporters.

I'm sure this is making it harder to sort out the good from the bad. Vigilantly reporters flocking to the scene are making it harder for the real press to be identified and they may need to take better measures to insure they are saw differently. I'm not aware of the circumstances leading to his arrest but can see where it's possible he wasn't taken seriously.

  • ensbb3
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Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #78
Time and time again we are seeing people not understanding the laws that exist. These things used to be more common before less than lethal alternatives became a thing. (No body go to Texas, they shoot first BTW.) The reason these laws exist as they are is due to the amount of dead officers. Ignorance isn't a defense because you don't understand the actions that will be taken. None of these people are doing things that normal law abiding citizens would do. So, why are you expecting them to be treated like a child being put in time-out? Severe actions can be taken and even deter others from doing the same.

Yes, bad things are happening on both sides. The situation is making one side to cause the other side to react and as this continues we are even starting to relate things that don't relate. At some point it helps to learn the system you live in.

Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #79
Those that think that bruising a cop's face requires 6 bullets have a moral problem that all decent citizenry will be genuinely concerned on.


Well the authorities & the FBI have interviewed hundreds of potential witnesses, & it's been reported that there are witnesses that are now saying that the officer received severe facial injuries in a struggle at the police car, where in the struggle the officers firearm discharged,  it's said as Brown tried to get at it,  & then Brown ran, & then turned to come back to charge at the officer -- it's been reported,  an injured officer----probably in fear for his life.

Now, at this point (it will be argued) the officer had all the justification he needed to empty his firearm,  if need be,  to neutralize the threat & defend himself.

Officers, when trained to fire at a subject, are trained to shoot at center mass.

Officers are never trained to wound --- never have been, & never will be.

I believe irregardless of training to do otherwise, if anything, all the shots except the last 2 shots were to probable non-fatal locations -- maybe intentionally --  whereas the last 1 or 2 shots took him out -- probably in desperation.

This should be a lesson --- never ever punch up on an armed officer first off, then if that isn't stupid enough, never charge, armed or unarmed, never charge an officer that has his gun drawn, & orders you to "freeze"....period.

All this especially if you're 6 foot 4 inches & pushing 300 pounds, & just given that exact same officer a heavy duty punchin'!!

Decent citizenry have nothing to be genuinely concerned on, but flat out stupid can get you killed, in this case I now believe it did.
  • Last Edit: 2014-08-21, 20:50:53 by SmileyFaze

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #80
Well-said, Smiley!
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
No one listens to me as much as I do and even I have my limits...
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman

  • Belfrager
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Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #81
Those that think that bruising a cop's face requires 6 bullets have a moral problem that all decent citizenry will be genuinely concerned on.

Of course.

Police man at the US seems to have a very original status, at one hand they can fire the entire six round pack but at the other hand they're more delicate than a boy scout...
A matter of attitude.

  • ensbb3
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Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #82

Those that think that bruising a cop's face requires 6 bullets have a moral problem that all decent citizenry will be genuinely concerned on.

Of course.

Police man at the US seems to have a very original status, at one hand they can fire the entire six round pack but at the other hand they're more delicate than a boy scout...


You two are cute together.

For a foreigner's perspective on crime and it's control across the Atlantic, I'm not any more impressed with tag-team beating suspects into submission. But when I see these things it's something I don't encounter day to day and looks brutal. Turns out it's what law enforcement get everyday and my context of the engagement goes without all the times it has went bad for officers to not react as they do.  

Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #83

Well-said, Smiley!


Thanks ...... I tried to be as accurate as possible 

  • krake
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Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #84
So it turns out that it was self-defense.
Great news except it needs a little bit more spin so it can explain the shots fired from the victim's back.

  • rjhowie
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Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #85
I think that the argument that people do not understand the laws that exist is a wee bit of a distraction in all reasonable consideration. I watched a series of police interventions across America and they are horrifying. Very often when protesting about something and sitting down the culprits get treated like mad dogs. Even having sprays shot into their eyes even though doing nothing.

Tonight i got a shock regarding Ferguson's other shooting - an actual film take of the incident. It showed the black man with a knife and the police were fully correct to do something about him but the accepted activity being taken over there is something else. At no point did he lunge at either officer and they did rightly tell him to drop the weapon. When he hadn't (and still no attack by him) they both shot a total of 9 bullets into him?? Why, if he had tried to attack them (which he didn't) couldn't they have fired a shot into a leg and floored him? Nope, it seems that killing the person is more important than arresting him. Beatings are being accepted as lesser issues! There seems to be a wide issue at stake here and it is a worrying trend.  It is one thing allowing a policeman to rightfully protect himself but too may are too anxious just to kill when it is NOT necessary. Sometimes not one or two bullets are sufficient but a host of bullets and as I recall one terror in NYC a barrage of shots from a group of policemen.

So I am not saying a policeman should just be done in but what is being taken as read nowadays does not give a very good impression of the police nationally. Maybe the regular killing of blacks shows something else as well that has not gone away. Both the killings in Ferguson were not justified and the evidence is as present as the nose on your face. Watching the latest killing video was frightening.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #86
explain the shots fired from the victim's back.

One eye-witness, the companion of the deceased during the petty theft, made statements to that effect. None of the autopsies verified them...
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
No one listens to me as much as I do and even I have my limits...
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #87
It is one thing allowing a policeman to rightfully protect himself but too may are too anxious just to kill when it is NOT necessary.

rj, read Elmore Leonard's "Valdez Is Coming"...


Most people are not cut out to be constables.
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
No one listens to me as much as I do and even I have my limits...
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman

  • krake
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Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #88

explain the shots fired from the victim's back.

One eye-witness, the companion of the deceased during the petty theft, made statements to that effect. None of the autopsies verified them...

I hate to contradict you but AFAIK it was proven at the autopsy.

Edit: Since I can't find the link I was referring to, I have to take back my above statement.
  • Last Edit: 2014-08-21, 22:04:13 by krake

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #89
Edit: Since I can't find the link I was referring to, I have to take back my above statement.

Not to worry, Krake: The Net will provide! But don't most of us care, what the truth is?
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
No one listens to me as much as I do and even I have my limits...
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman

Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #90
Both the killings in Ferguson were not justified and the evidence is as present as the nose on your face. Watching the latest killing video was frightening.


Not justified in your humble opinion -- 'RJ Justified', or not justified in the eyes of the law -- 'legally justified'?

Remember, when you speak of legally justified, you must consult the laws governing the 'justification criteria', in the jurisdiction the so called 'killing' took place.

Watching 'any' killing can be unsettling if you are unfamiliar with the subject matter -- death, especially violent death. 

I'll never forget the terror, then the cold calm in the eyes of my first kill the moment life departed, as I held him down & thrust my bayonet deeper into his racing heart.

Scared the shit outa me, that is until his buddy came at me from behind a few moments later.

Now, that scared me more was unsettling for sure!
  • Last Edit: 2014-08-21, 23:02:31 by SmileyFaze

  • rjhowie
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Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #91
Well I can tell you this Smiley about the throwing in of "legally justified. It will not say much about morality and principles in your country if these policemen get away with the 2 killings in Ferguson. Indeed they are not unique and as i said too many of your police think they can do what they like and get away with it. Now come on, pumping 5 bullets into an unarmed man on his knees? Hardly life threatening for the officer. Have you seen the film of the 2 policemen who shot the man with the knife? Why he had the knife we don't know but he wasn't actually physically threatening them with the thing. What chance if he had what with 2 cops and 2 guns drawn. Again 9 bullets pumped into the man? Seems killing people is more important than arresting and jailing them. Kind of odd idea on law and order and even basic humanity or principle. You have a wide problem across the country and Ferguson is just another sad story and will not be surprised if any consequence of the killings by cops gets any justice. Judging by the numbers of blacks regularly beaetn up or shot by police the racial issue is still simmering. Morals are at stake on this issue.

Want to be able to beat up in groups or kill people and get away with it? Join the police.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #92
Quote from: rjhowie
....Now come on, pumping 5 bullets into an unarmed man on his knees?.....
Not even Michael Brown's own mother & lawyer would believe that malarkey.

         How far up behind the monkeys tail did ya have to go for that one!!??


Quote from: rjhowie
........It will not say much about morality and principles in your country.....


We'll sleep at night, so you stay up all night & cuss us like usual, 'cuz we don't give a rats puckered ass.

Makes ya so mad ya just wanna spit now, don't it.............

Both the killings in Ferguson were not justified and the evidence is as present as the nose on your face. Watching the latest killing video was frightening.


The options:


Quote
Not justified in your humble opinion -- 'RJ Justified', or not justified in the eyes of the law -- 'legally justified'?


Ok.....so there was a 3rd justification slant/scenario:

'Not Justified due to Obsessive Anti-American Bias coupled with a splatter of RJ Justification'.  

Now, if the facts hold true as has recently been reported as witnesses came forth, according to the legal sources recently interviewed, they should probably be ruled appropriately as justified deaths  --  in lay terms, 'A Good Shoot'

If that frosts yer sherbert filled crusted cookies there ole RJ, well as granny useta say ..... "... it's tough titty when ya gotta chew the milk!..."

Our laws are the only ones that matter here, & your self-proclaimed morality means jack squat west of Mingulay ......... period.

Well ............................ except to you that is, but that ain't nuffin' new .... is it. You'll still go on yer anti-American crusades irregardless --- won't ya now.



  • Last Edit: 2014-08-22, 06:49:29 by SmileyFaze

Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #93
It will not say much about morality and principles in your country


Quote from: rjhowie
....Now come on, pumping 5 bullets into an unarmed man on his knees?.....
Not even Michael Brown's own mother & lawyer would believe that malarkey.

How far behind the monkeys tail did ya have to go for that one!!??

Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #94
Can i remind Sanguinemoon again that the killer cop was NOT aware of the shop incident.

Pay attention, Howie. There was a second incident in St Louis in which a man stole energy drinks and muffins and it ended with the police gunning him down. The police say he had a knife and was two feet away. Eyewitness video seems to show him further away from that, but from the video's vantage point you can't tell if he had a knife or not. So now we have to determine why that petty crime ended in death. Perhaps it was suicide by cop, perhaps there's so much anger and resentment toward the police that citizens in that community have taken to attacking the police when the punishment will be just a couple days in jail or community service. Or maybe the shooting was unjustified. Right now we don't know what was going on the mind of the man or the cops. As I told Oakdale, there's something bigger going on than the specific incidents and it isn't good.

  • krake
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Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #95

The idea of the policeman wearing a camera has to do with what happens in Internal Affairs when a case like this happens. The cop says he shot in self-defense, a dozen people in the neighborhood say it was cold-blooded murder. Which was it?

You mean something like this?
Attention: Violent Graphic Video!

  • krake
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Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #96

For curiosity, was the police man arrested?

He was displaced and does now administrative work at the police. There are no charges against him so far.

  • krake
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  • Belfrager
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Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #98
Officer 'Go F*ck Yourself' Points Giant Rifle at Camera, Tells Ferguson Protesters 'I'll F*cking Kill You'

There you have the psychological angle of the question.
Better saying the psychiatric angle.

I'll F*cking Kill You' it's different from a simple I'll Kill You, it remits to, and reinforces, a clear Freudian trauma, the police being probably sexually abused in children not to speak about a strong and deep Oedipus complex...
No wonder he wants to f*ucking kill everybody...

Since this verb turned into an adjective seems to be widely used by certain levels of the American society, the above identified psychological issues are prone to be a characteristic of a significant part of the population.
I'll recommend Xanax at industrial doses.
A matter of attitude.

  • jseaton2311
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Re: Is there a police psychology problem??
Reply #99
There is a police psychology problem for sure, but still no one here cares to look at the current case from a purely legal standpoint and then add in their own brand of moral and ethical issues. 

Michael Brown physically assaulted a police officer and grappled for his gun, both of which are violent felonies.  When Brown ran from the scene of the crime, he became an escaping violent felon and innocent people needed protection from him.  Did Darren Wilson act within his constitutional right and duty as a police officer to protect innocent people from a fleeing violent felon?  Was he perhaps dazed enough from the bone-breaking beating he took that he acted purely out of his police instinct and training to shoot a fleeing and violent felon multiple times?  Was that an overreaction?  Reports are now coming out that Brown had turned back towards the officer and was coming at him.  Was Brown acting in self defense by turning back towards officer Wilson?  How long should officer Wilson have thought about the situation before taking action...long enough for Brown to snatch a nearby citizen to shield himself with? 

On this forum officer Wilson has been tried and convicted by some members who claim to know what was going on in the minds of both Brown and officer Wilson--and in fact, all US police officers.  This is an example of the 'outraged citizen' psychology that is sweeping this nation from an, as yet, unclear situation.  Mob mentality aside, isn't citizen Darren Brown still innocent until proven otherwise?  Why does this police officer and his family have to go into hiding in a country that prides itself on liberty and justice for all?   :knight:
James J