"The great advances of civilization," wrote Milton Friedman in Capitalism and Freedom, his influential best seller published in 1962, "whether in architecture or painting, in science or literature, in industry or agriculture, have never come from centralized government." He did not say what he made of the state-sponsored art of Athens's Periclean Age or the Medici family, who, as Europe's dominant bankers but then as Florentine rulers, commissioned and financed so much Renaissance art. Or the Spanish court that gave us Velázquez. Or the many public universities that produced great scientists in our times. Or, even just before Friedman was writing, what could he have made of the Manhattan Project of the US government, which produced the atomic bomb? Or the National Institutes of Health, whose government-supported grants led to many of the most important pharmaceutical breakthroughs?We could perhaps forgive Friedman's ill-informed remarks as a burst of ideological enthusiasm if so many economists and business executives didn't accept this myth as largely true.
Relying on private enterprise for innovation often fails, as the company needs to please its shareholders in time for the next quarterly report and something that will take a few years to pay off won't necessarily do that.
In another thread Belfrager said that Marx, among other authors, was "adulterated". I'm not sure what he meant. Maybe that he's wrongly interpreted? I don't think Marx's behaviour at communist conferences left much room for doubt about his overall big plans.
I'm not a marxist, by the contrary, always fought all my life against the marxist forces. It seems my side has won but honestly, looking around the western world, I don't know anymore if this is better.
That said, there's one aspect that I think Marx was right and it's a fundamental part of his work - the exploitation of man by man.
Adulterated means what it means and I had the trouble of checking if english had that word previous to post. A necessity that affects those who have to express at rudimentary languages.
How in this world do you think that the "Marxist forces" in the West have lost...? Multiculturalism, Critical this-and-that-ism, moral relativity and post-Modernism (whatever that means...) permeate our cultures! They are viruses. (Shouldn't they be quarantined? )
What a brilliant man! He almost grasped the import of Original Sin... A little late, but then he was an "intellectual"!
Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2014-11-02, 03:56:21How in this world do you think that the "Marxist forces" in the West have lost...? Multiculturalism, Critical this-and-that-ism, moral relativity and post-Modernism (whatever that means...) permeate our cultures! They are viruses. (Shouldn't they be quarantined? )What you refer aren't Marxist products or even by-products but the result of savage Capitalism, a capitalism under no moral order.
And Oakdale has nothing to say about economy.
By measure. It was word and note,The wind the wind had meant to be--A little through the lips and throat.The aim was song--the wind could see.
Protest song writers aren't anymore what they used to be...
Oakdale completely (and wrongly) equates Western decadent Leftism, a natural by-product of capitalism, with Marxism.
Marxists always had a strong sense of ideals where they were getting at. The ideals were misguided (as I said, Marx didn't get socialism right) but there surely were ideals, whereas Western decadent Leftism is a whiney critique of everything without any constructive element.
And Oakdale has nothing to say about economy. When he does, he's ironically just as whiney and deconstructive as Western Leftists.
Quote from: ersi on 2014-11-02, 01:19:30Oakdale completely (and wrongly) equates Western decadent Leftism, a natural by-product of capitalism, with Marxism.In a sense, ersi, you are correct: Capitalism and a reasonably limited government combine to dis-establish the intellectuals, who must rule, regulate and meddle -- or lose their self-esteem!As intellectuals, Marxists craved power over men... Their ideals were -shall we say- contingent upon receiving enough power? They wanted to re-shape society so that no man could be other than a cog in the machine they envisioned -- as Trotsky said, "God Is the State; the State is God"! (Yeah, I know he didn't say it... )Western Leftism is much the same; intellectuals hungry for power! To pretend to control matters beyond our understanding requires only that one convince others that these matters aren't... And, then, consolidate -- a so-called constructive element?It's only rule over men, ersi.
Economics is a descriptive science, first. And a subsumed off-shoot of ethics...secondarily. Would you disagree, ersi? Belfrager? Anyone?
Of course, the "planners" would... Human nature, being what it is, they want control! )both senses meant, of "want" (
the bourgeois have no proper theoretical comprehension of it and in practice live off the fruits of those who have the comprehension and who do the essential work in the society.
Who are these people who do "the work" and what is the work they do? If it's essential, it is -at least- something that can be delineated, no? Of course, No!
What you mean is: Intellectuals are smarter than everyone else; hence, what they think is important matters most... What they don't think is un-thinkable. Or banal.
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Do you have a OakdaleFTL-rjhowie/rjhowie-OakdaleFTL dictionary in store?
Quote from: jax on 2014-11-23, 11:28:52Do you have a OakdaleFTL-rjhowie/rjhowie-OakdaleFTL dictionary in store?That is probably the funniest thing I've read this year! Bravo!
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