Skip to main content

Topic: Otter advantages over Vivaldi (Read 26248 times)

  • Freeman
  • [*][*][*]
Otter advantages over Vivaldi
Because Otter is single-process browser, it's his general advantage over Vivaldi. Multiprocess browsers are for buggy plugins and to avoid memory leaks only, as I think. Reliable browser should remain single-processed, getting benefits on speed on memory usage. Before Otter, I didn't know that single-process architecture is available on WebKit engine. On my home machine with 1 GB RAM, Otter uses 2-3 times less memory than Opera 12.17. Bravo!

Minimalistic, system theme based interface is second advantage, as for me. Current Vivaldi alpha doesn't have Bookmarks item in his menu, but Otter has. For the first time, I'm ready to use classic bookmarks only, unless personal bars not yet implemented.

When "mouse gesture down over link" and "scroll tabs holding right button" gestures get implemented, I could try to migrate completely to Otter. Oh, also urlfiler.ini and user.css are needed.

As for now, I'm using Otter to surf on Vivaldi forum. :D Big thanks to Otter developers!
Разработчик языка программирования Кантор, ведущий группы Otter ВКонтакте

  • Frenzie
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
  • Administrator
Re: Otter advantages over Vivaldi
Reply #50
When positioned left or right, the tabbar eventually (by v.11) only displayed the thumbnails.

I don't think thumbnails arrived quite that early? More important, if you right click on the tabbar → customize, you can choose to enable or disable thumbnails in tabs. Alternatively use opera:config#UserPrefs|UseThumbnailsInsideTabs.

  • ersi
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Otter advantages over Vivaldi
Reply #51

When positioned left or right, the tabbar eventually (by v.11) only displayed the thumbnails.

I don't think thumbnails arrived quite that early?

I don't remember and not in the mood to find out precisely.


More important, if you right click on the tabbar → customize, you can choose to enable or disable thumbnails in tabs. Alternatively use opera:config#UserPrefs|UseThumbnailsInsideTabs.

Yes, and this turns the tabbar nicely into a list of webpage titles, aligned horizontally.

Otter displays the titles vertically, does not allow resizing the tabbar and does not convert the titles into thumbnails. Not the kind of features I care about, but it's a difference from later Opera versions.

  • Frenzie
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
  • Administrator
Re: Otter advantages over Vivaldi
Reply #52
I always thought disabling the tabbar and using the window panel was a lot more useful than the vertical tabbar. I think the thumbnails gave the vertical tabbar more right to exist, although I wouldn't ever use 'em.

  • ayespy
  • [*]
Re: Otter advantages over Vivaldi
Reply #53

I always thought disabling the tabbar and using the window panel was a lot more useful than the vertical tabbar. I think the thumbnails gave the vertical tabbar more right to exist, although I wouldn't ever use 'em.

I guess this would kind of make sense if you didn't want the mail panel open all the time, and access to your tabs and bookmarks at the same time.  With mail open, there is no visible window panel (a panel which I never used, BTW).  Community, thy name is diversity.

  • Frenzie
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
  • Administrator
Re: Otter advantages over Vivaldi
Reply #54
Ideally you'd be able to have an arbitrary number of panels open at once. On my new UHD monitor (you know, the one where Vivaldi is nigh unusable :P) I have a comparative abundance of vertical space in spite of its 16:9 aspect ratio. The real reason for a lack of vertical space even on monitors with more of it than your average hardcover book has always been illegibility of smaller fonts, not because they were small, but simply because less than 8-10px didn't carry enough detail. In other words, I could have e.g. the windows, bookmarks, as well as transfers panel open simultaneously and there'd be no more scrolling involved than on my old monitor.

Anyway, if you were able to use modifiers like Ctrl and Shift on the tabbar then the windows panel wouldn't necessarily be as advantageous (although it still has quick find).

  • The Solutor
  • [*]
Re: Otter advantages over Vivaldi
Reply #55
Hey.

I just noticed that all my post disappeared from here.

Not really a nice behavior from your side.

  • Frenzie
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
  • Administrator
Re: Otter advantages over Vivaldi
Reply #56
The moderation log contains no record of such a thing. What are you talking about, exactly?

  • The Solutor
  • [*]
Re: Otter advantages over Vivaldi
Reply #57
I double checked, you are right.

I was tricked by your mention to the 16/9 resolution, something we discussed together.

But was actually discussed in a different thread.

So, sorry for the misunderstanding.

  • Frenzie
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
  • Administrator
Re: Otter advantages over Vivaldi
Reply #58
Cheers. :)

  • ersi
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Otter advantages over Vivaldi
Reply #59

  • Emdek
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
  • Moderator
Re: Otter advantages over Vivaldi
Reply #60
@ersi, easy to do, but needs some love for polishing:
http://doc.qt.io/qt-5/qmdiarea.html

The main reason why we don't have it yet are are reports about extra overhead for some users.
Nadszedł już czas, najwyższy czas, nienawiść zniszczyć w sobie.
The time has come, the high time, to destroy hatred in oneself.

  • ersi
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Otter advantages over Vivaldi
Reply #61
Some other recent features noticed in Vivaldi:

- Fast Forward
- Spatial navigation (independent from and additional to the webkit's spatial navigation), too heavily animated and still behaving a bit unexpectedly (i.e. not always clear where it turns next).
- Attachments in Notes.

I care about the first two features, not at all about the third.

Spatial navigation should be light and unanimated. I would prefer it also to be as native to the rendering engine as possible, but since the idea with Otter is to support multiple rendering engines, I guess I cannot have any high hopes with spatial navigation.

  • Emdek
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
  • Moderator
Re: Otter advantages over Vivaldi
Reply #62
@ersi, do we have any JS experts here?
It should be possible to implement spatial navigation entirely using JS, but that would require some work...

Attachments in notes? Next step is embedding Facebook and Google share buttons there? :-D
Nadszedł już czas, najwyższy czas, nienawiść zniszczyć w sobie.
The time has come, the high time, to destroy hatred in oneself.

  • ersi
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Otter advantages over Vivaldi
Reply #63

@ersi, do we have any JS experts here?
It should be possible to implement spatial navigation entirely using JS, but that would require some work...

Frenzie. Not sure if he would like to implement spatial navigation, but he knows JS.

One of the things that is extra bad with Vivaldi's implementation at the current stage is that webkit's version of spatial navigation is there too along with Vivaldi's shiny glittering animated spatial navigation, so when people talk "spatial navigation" in the forums they may be meaning different things, and when they use it, the different navigations interfere with each other.

If/when Otter implements its own spatial navigation, then webkit's embedded/inbuilt spatial navigation should be disabled somehow.

And when you say "JS", in this context it sounds like this kind of spatial navigation is an extension by definition, not an inbuilt feature. I am of this opinion: Extensions, userscripts and scriptlets should have their own dedicated folder(s) in the profile directory, so that users could examine them, modify them, learn from them to create their own thingies, and then be able to share the thingies. This community spirit was an important attractor around Opera.


Attachments in notes? Next step is embedding Facebook and Google share buttons there? :-D

In FF I lately noticed some paper airplane button (Share) and a smiley button (Chat) that have emerged with updates. I hid them out of the way of course, but maybe they do stuff in the background anyway. Luckily I use FF only at work.

The only Share function I recognise is "Send link in email".

  • Frenzie
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
  • Administrator
Re: Otter advantages over Vivaldi
Reply #64
Frenzie. Not sure if he would like to implement spatial navigation, but he knows JS.

Something like that already exists actually.

https://github.com/mikehostetler/jquery-keynav

Demo here.

  • Emdek
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
  • Moderator
Re: Otter advantages over Vivaldi
Reply #65
@ersi, QtWebKit allows to enable / disable it, it should be disabled by default.

@Frenzie, does it work nicely with SELECT?
It's not too complicated, although if we had to bundle something like it then it cannot use jQuery.
Nadszedł już czas, najwyższy czas, nienawiść zniszczyć w sobie.
The time has come, the high time, to destroy hatred in oneself.

  • ersi
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Otter advantages over Vivaldi
Reply #66
@Frenzie If spatial navigation in JS exists, then surely Fast Forward exists too, maybe even in several forms, and it's just a matter of slapping it onto Otter.

  • Foton
  • [*]
Re: Otter advantages over Vivaldi
Reply #67
Otter advantages over Vivaldi

Vivaldi is based on deception. They promised to do "browser for our  friends". But did indoor bug tracker without feedback. They interviewed users to learn needed features and settings. But not working on the resulting list, but doing unnecessary things. In recent years, the old Opera was a joke that all of her troubles on what the developers your browser is not in use. Vivaldi inherited the worst traits of his predecessor. It is pointless to compare Otter and Vivaldi, because Otter better by nature. Technical specifications of little importance.
Русское сообщество -- otter.su

  • Frenzie
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
  • Administrator
Re: Otter advantages over Vivaldi
Reply #68
@Frenzie, does it work nicely with SELECT?

I have no idea. I figure all of the offSet logic is presumably the hardest part, but I haven't given it much thought. The keyboard handling part of the equation should probably not be in JS but the location finding logic should do well enough. However, I think it'd be pretty hard to get it right. Otherwise we'd have seen something semi-decent from a non-Opera source by now, I'd think?

@Frenzie If spatial navigation in JS exists, then surely Fast Forward exists too, maybe even in several forms, and it's just a matter of slapping it onto Otter.

This should be pretty simple -- much more of a few spare hours kind of project than spatial navigation. There's the obvious link rel=next and checking page links against a few words like "next". Auto image-gallery like in Opera would be harder (and I don't think it's implemented in any clones). However, since this is really a pair with rewind it should imo be built into the browser even if it utilizes some helper JS. For inspiration it looks like there's a Chrome extension here and a Fx extension here, but aside of some assistance in figuring out what to check for there shouldn't be any need for that.

  • Emdek
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
  • Moderator
Re: Otter advantages over Vivaldi
Reply #69
However, I think it'd be pretty hard to get it right. Otherwise we'd have seen something semi-decent from a non-Opera source by now, I'd think?

Well, similar fears prevented me from starting this project at least six months earlier. :-P
Nadszedł już czas, najwyższy czas, nienawiść zniszczyć w sobie.
The time has come, the high time, to destroy hatred in oneself.

  • Frenzie
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
  • Administrator
Re: Otter advantages over Vivaldi
Reply #70
Plus the addressbar is the most important missing mainstream feature at the moment. ;)

Btw, the toolbar customization stuff is great!

  • Emdek
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
  • Moderator
Re: Otter advantages over Vivaldi
Reply #71
@Frenzie, yeah, it has to be finally done for next beta. ;-)
Nadszedł już czas, najwyższy czas, nienawiść zniszczyć w sobie.
The time has come, the high time, to destroy hatred in oneself.

  • Frenzie
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
  • Administrator
Re: Otter advantages over Vivaldi
Reply #72
This isn't so much an advantage over Vivaldi as an advantage over every other browser except Opera/Presto, but the fact that no other download panel or indicator seems to have any information about the source URL is amazingly frustrating. Oddly enough, in spite of its Operatic flirtations Vivaldi doesn't either.

(Of course, above all Vivaldi remains unusable because of its DPI issues.)

  • treego
  • [*]
Re: Otter advantages over Vivaldi
Reply #73
Otter is preferred by me above Vivaldi because:

  • it has more responsive GUI

  • it renders pages faster

  • Shift-F2 (turbo bookmark) in Otter works far better than does the Quick Command feature in Vivaldi for me; the Quick Command feature in Vivaldi is not quick

  • Website preferences and F12 is brilliant in Otter as it was in the old Opera; Vivaldi does not do this as well

  • Otter opens faster

  • Otter's Full-Screen feature is better than Vivaldi's--I like the auto-hiding of tabs in Otter; Vivaldi does not have this

  • Multiple tabs are handled far better in Otter than in Vivaldi; Vivaldi bogs down with several tabs--not so much in Otter

  • Panel opens/closes faster in Otter

  • Otter is more configurable and more intuitively configurable if one is a former Opera Presto user, especially

  • GUI is less distracting in Otter

  • Otter feels like Opera-Presto; Vivaldi feels like Chrome



...more to come ... as I think of more ...

  • treego
  • [*]
Re: Otter advantages over Vivaldi
Reply #74
Otter is far less resource hungry.