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Topic: Blasphemy and Free Speech  (Read 16483 times)

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Blasphemy and Free Speech
All societies have some rules about behaviour, often coupled to religion or custom. Even when dealing with members of one's own culture we sometimes struggle to avoid offence and conflicts but even more so if we live in a multicultural society.

In some countries, blasphemy is illegal, in others not. In the latter case, laws against blasphemy are substituted by laws against "hateful speech" or "incitement". But those laws merely transpose the underlying dilemma because such terms as "hateful speech" or "incitement" are themselves culture-driven, and vary, even from person to person, let alone between, say, different religions or countries.

We can avoid all these "problems" by avoiding communication with everyone, but that's not a viable solution so we have invented this concept of Free Speech and hope the problem will go away.

So are there limits? How do we recognise them?

  • Belfrager
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Re: Blasphemy and Free Speech
Reply #75
I'm sure you knew that, but that was further clarification for Belfrager.

No clarification at all for me, Sanguinemoon.
tt92 said it all.
Quote from: tt92
If I curse something or someone I consider holy or sacred, I will have blasphemed,
If I curse something or someone that another person considers holy or sacred, I will have  needlessly and childishly been offensive.
I don't see where the concept of free speech comes into it either way.
A matter of attitude.

Re: Blasphemy and Free Speech
Reply #76
It's hard to believe that blasphemy laws still exist in the modern Western world, but they do. See below for the overturn of Michigan's law.

Quote
But the court notes that this law had already been overturned by the Michigan Supreme Court in 2002, so it cannot be grounds for arrest in this case. After he was sued, the police officer offered two additional grounds for the arrest, one of which was an actual blasphemy law still on the books in Michigan. That law said:

CURSING AND SWEARING-Any person who has arrived at the age of discretion, who shall profanely curse or damn or swear by the name of God, Jesus Christ or the Holy Ghost, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.


You'll note that Allah isn't mentioned.

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Re: Blasphemy and Free Speech
Reply #77
Nor Budda, Odin and other guys.

  • Frenzie
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Re: Blasphemy and Free Speech
Reply #78
Quote
CURSING AND SWEARING-Any person who has arrived at the age of discretion, who shall profanely curse or damn or swear by the name of God, Jesus Christ or the Holy Ghost, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.

So, no saying Yahweh or Yeshua. Everything else goes. :)

PS What about "I swear by almighty God to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth"? Testifying in a court of law can be a misdemeanor! :D

[/Josh]

Re: Blasphemy and Free Speech
Reply #79

...hate speech is permissible unless it will lead to imminent hate violence...
It is not right. Because this way it depends absolutely on the offended.
The offended must have a right either to smash or sue, not both or neither.


Well..........As I said earlier & if you read what I wrote carefully.......these are facts about the Freedom of Speech in America.

You ( or many others that live where their laws differ ) don't need to agree with them,
but they are the legal facts ---- IN AMERICA ---- nevertheless.

Many in America will side with your opinion, but in the end the law is the law, & merely disagreeing with it doesn't & won't change it.

All they can do it petition the government to amend it, & until amended as prescribed in law, that law will remain as fact.
  • Last Edit: 2014-02-22, 23:32:36 by SmileyFaze

Re: Blasphemy and Free Speech
Reply #80
No clarification at all for me, Sanguinemoon.

Freedom of speech walks hand in hand with that of free thought and the exchange of ideas.

Re: Blasphemy and Free Speech
Reply #81
What about "I swear by almighty God to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth"? Testifying in a court of law can be a misdemeanor!

Observing a court proceeding can be very interesting. Decades ago I took some students to observe a court case and found it most enjoyable...nothing like those little snippets we can find on TV, although they can be very entertaining.
http://www.activistpost.com/2013/11/mountain-man-arrested-in-courtroom-gets.html

Re: Blasphemy and Free Speech
Reply #82
"Speech Codes" On The Campus And Problems Of Free Speech


Not my words, but the words of another author ( Nat Hentoff ).

There seems to be a movement particularly by the academic left, of all places,
to put strong limits on some free thought & expression --- free speech.

Here's an opening excerpt from a piece I will link to below that outlines the issue in detail, of which I would like to hear from any of you after reading the entire report ---- especially from, but not limited to, those with either any personal first hand experience on campus related to this subject, or have had a teaching position at any level of academia.



On this voyage of initially reverse expectations-with liberals fiercely advocating
censorship of "offensive" speech and conservatives merrily taking the moral high ground
as champions of free expression--the most dismaying moment of revelation took place at
Stanford.
In the course of a two-year debate on whether Stanford, like many other
universities, should have a speech code punishing language that might wound minorities,
women, and gays, a letter appeared in the Stanford Daily. Signed by the African-
American Law Students Association, the Asian-American Law Student Association, and
the Jewish Law Students Association, the letter called for a harsh code. It reflected the
letter and the spirit of an earlier declaration by Canetta Ivy, a black leader of student
government at Stanford during the period of the grand debate. "We don't put as many
restrictions on freedom of speech," she said, "as we should."......... continued



What do you think about what he (the author) says?

Have you seen this anywhere else ---- say for example, in the Government or Main-Stream Media?

Re: Blasphemy and Free Speech
Reply #83
Just wanted to note that William Howie Wallace blasphemed in another thread describing grits as "Yeuch".   :P

  • rjhowie
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Re: Blasphemy and Free Speech
Reply #84
Don't know William Howie Wallace but he is spot on.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

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Re: Blasphemy and Free Speech
Reply #85
RJ is congratulated with his hundred! :beer:

  • rjhowie
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Re: Blasphemy and Free Speech
Reply #86
I note your congratulations.

From a Tsarist.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: Blasphemy and Free Speech
Reply #87

Don't know William Howie Wallace but he is spot on.

The old lad goes about this forum making outrageous claims such as, "I invented the question mark!" and then proceeds to accuse chestnuts of being lazy.

He was an imperialist at one time, but got caught up in Salmond's bollocks and henceforth became an ardent supporter of Scottish Independence.

He also has been known to don an Orange sash and strut about in N. Ireland.


Re: Blasphemy and Free Speech
Reply #88
He also has been known to don an Orange sash and strut about in N. Ireland.


He then should have a realistic expectation that he'd be shot at, & if not sternly cry that they were badly trained, & all bad shots!

Re: Blasphemy and Free Speech
Reply #89

He also has been known to don an Orange sash and strut about in N. Ireland.


He then should have a realistic expectation that he'd be shot at, & if not sternly cry that they were badly trained, & all bad shots!

Projected jimmie-rustling rating: 10/10.    :cheers:

  • rjhowie
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Re: Blasphemy and Free Speech
Reply #90
Oh you don't need to "strut" around Northern Ireland so kind of shows the youthful intelligence of a passing gnat. One can wear it in Scotland, England, Wales, Ulster, Eire (yep), Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Ghana, Togo, USA and some isolated places.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: Blasphemy and Free Speech
Reply #91

Oh you don't need to "strut" around Northern Ireland so kind of shows the youthful intelligence of a passing gnat. One can wear it in Scotland, England, Wales, Ulster, Eire (yep), Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Ghana, Togo, USA and some isolated places.

Glad to see I was right on the other 90% of my previous post.  :happy:

  • rjhowie
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Re: Blasphemy and Free Speech
Reply #92
You are rarely overly "right." Just the over confidence of youth and that you have to try and boost your confidence by your language emphasises that one. However I will concede a point. When it comes to strutting you lot over the pond have the world championship secured in that activity!  :doh:
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: Blasphemy and Free Speech
Reply #93
One can wear it in Scotland, England, Wales, Ulster, Eire (yep), Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Ghana, Togo, USA and some isolated places.

Or, if you like being laughed at, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Yemen. It would me much more foolish to wear one of these.

Re: Blasphemy and Free Speech
Reply #94

You are rarely overly "right." Just the over confidence of youth and that you have to try and boost your confidence by your language emphasises that one. However I will concede a point. When it comes to strutting you lot over the pond have the world championship secured in that activity!  :doh:

And once again, we learned if from the best; our former imperial owners.

/Study UK's methods for 100 years

/Watch the British Empire fall at the end of WWII

/Take over the world from the UK using UK's methods


Result? Profit.    :spock:

  • rjhowie
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Re: Blasphemy and Free Speech
Reply #95
No you didn't take over using the same methods so don;t try that guff as an excuse for your type of dangerous imperialism. We looked after a set empire whilst your lot think they have a right to control all the world by invading, corrupting and destabilising. The same coorprate mind behind that does the same inside America hence the tens of millions in difficulty, losing homes and worse. What a typical load of old guff from a young mind but there again brainwashed from the first classroom. Hand on chest and flag everywhere except the lavatory. If it wasn't so warped would be a hoot!
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: Blasphemy and Free Speech
Reply #96

No you didn't take over using the same methods so don;t try that guff as an excuse for your type of dangerous imperialism. We looked after a set empire whilst your lot think they have a right to control all the world by invading, corrupting and destabilising. The same coorprate mind behind that does the same inside America hence the tens of millions in difficulty, losing homes and worse. What a typical load of old guff from a young mind but there again brainwashed from the first classroom. Hand on chest and flag everywhere except the lavatory. If it wasn't so warped would be a hoot!

While you may post your bollock as nauseum, you know I am right. But, thou art an almighty hypocrite, so I expect your post.  :P

  • rjhowie
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Re: Blasphemy and Free Speech
Reply #97
Nah. You are a most appropriate example of the ex-colonists educational system (not surprised successive governments over there have been concerned). As for the immediate use of the word hypocrite. That really is 'awesome' (a favourite word of Americans! It comes from a nation that blasts the world with stuff about freedom, rights, democracy, principles but doesn't practice any of them itself. Neither across the world nor internally You come from a reasonably cumfy background so free with the assertions No other country in our age has created so many wars, infiltrated countries, maintaned fascist dictatorships than your wonderful land. The arrogance is part of the psyche and well indoctrinated so three out of three for doing a great job of portraying that!

So when immediately jumping up and quickly using a routine word such as 'hypocrisy' do make sure that your would-be high ground is unassailable. Maybe your educational new pal from Michigan could give you a few tips on laguage control  which seems beyond your capability.However it is always a smiling thing to be aware that those that accuse others of something always fail to see it in their own corner. Hypocrisy, arrogance and such can be freely stuck on the US of A by virtue of it's global actions.  On the wider aspect of free speech I do recall the widespread violence shown to Wall Street protestors and did your land no credit at all.  The only laf decent politician over there is Ron Paul and he was hemmed in by the dictatorship of the 2 controlling giants and they in turn by the corporates. Yep land of free speech and rights. Maybe it needs all those spy agencies to ensure the people are in the frame wanted and bleat about rights to fool them!
Do keep up your stance it says much more than you actually realise!!   :lol: :whistle:
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: Blasphemy and Free Speech
Reply #98

Nah. You are a most appropriate example of the ex-colonists educational system (not surprised successive governments over there have been concerned). As for the immediate use of the word hypocrite. That really is 'awesome' (a favourite word of Americans! It comes from a nation that blasts the world with stuff about freedom, rights, democracy, principles but doesn't practice any of them itself. Neither across the world nor internally You come from a reasonably cumfy background so free with the assertions No other country in our age has created so many wars, infiltrated countries, maintaned fascist dictatorships than your wonderful land. The arrogance is part of the psyche and well indoctrinated so three out of three for doing a great job of portraying that!

So when immediately jumping up and quickly using a routine word such as 'hypocrisy' do make sure that your would-be high ground is unassailable. Maybe your educational new pal from Michigan could give you a few tips on laguage control  which seems beyond your capability.However it is always a smiling thing to be aware that those that accuse others of something always fail to see it in their own corner. Hypocrisy, arrogance and such can be freely stuck on the US of A by virtue of it's global actions.  On the wider aspect of free speech I do recall the widespread violence shown to Wall Street protestors and did your land no credit at all.  The only laf decent politician over there is Ron Paul and he was hemmed in by the dictatorship of the 2 controlling giants and they in turn by the corporates. Yep land of free speech and rights. Maybe it needs all those spy agencies to ensure the people are in the frame wanted and bleat about rights to fool them!
Do keep up your stance it says much more than you actually realise!!   :lol: :whistle:

Remind me again how much Her Majesty's Gov't paid the Kenyans for the Mau Mau massacre?
Along with other massacres by your formerly blood-thirsty gov't?

That's right Mr. Howie, thou art an almighty hypocrite.  :nervous:

  • rjhowie
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Re: Blasphemy and Free Speech
Reply #99
Desperation, desperation. All that coming from a country that showered South Vietnam with Agent Orange and generations ever since there are born with defects, Even families of US servicemen who served have had the same problem. You messed that war up because you thought you were so high and mighty and sweep everything before you. The Soth Koreand and Austr and Australian Army were both the tops at pacification programmes whilst your oot made a hash of them.At least the VC was wary of those two but not you bunch!It eventually effected moral, discipline and all those in uniform doped out of their heads. We live in a more sophisticated age yet America has waged more wars than anyone. There is hardly a country in South America where you didn't fund a coup and indirectly support mass murder. Hundreds of military posts over the planet with the excuse you are looking after US interest and security. Heavens above! Sovereignty is just a glib word from you lot. When are you going to move your torture camp out of Cuba and respect it's borders? Men still there imprisoned without trial for 12 years?! Justice, rights and human dignity there? You fly in the face os those words all the time.

Now your President is in Saudi Arabia smiling and chortling with th despot there. No rights, freedoms, etc and the country flies in the face of those words you so proudly boast of.  Saudi is in the top 10 military purchasers from where do I ask?! Fifty years ago the US couldn't have cared a damn about Saudi Arabia but how oil and making money is more important. You bleat about standing for freedom and all that stuff but shut a blind eye when making a dollar is the aim. You have no moral case so drift back into history of a past time as a sidestep from the danger you have created everywhere. And if so keen on hsitory just look inside the 'kand of the free and home of the brave' (yawn). What a history of ethnic cleansing racial abuse, denying rights, nit-picking that constitution thing when it suited and so on. Stand back boy and think before you waffle o. The Commonwealth is still here but you can only keep friends by bribing them or putting in despots you can control and in with the corprates to make cash.

Do feel free to grow up in your own time of course. Hypocrisy is an alternative word for modern and past America.
"Quit you like men:be strong"