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Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to own, carry, & use Firearms to defend their own lives, & the lives of their family & friends?

  • Absolutely Yes!
  • I thinks so.
  • I don't think so.
  • Definitely No!
  • My name isn't String, so let me have a icy cold beer so I can ponder the options...

Topic: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms? (Read 188078 times)

Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?
The Second Amendment to the United States Constitution states:

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

Do you know the history behind those words?

Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to own, carry, & use Firearms to defend their own lives, & the lives of their family & friends?

Was the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution created to just protect a Citizen's right to target shoot & hunt, or was it created so that all Citizens could defend their Right to be free from a Tyrannical & Abusive Government --- along with having the ability to target/sport shoot & hunt as simply an added bonus -- merely a by product?

Can Governments legislate 'Gun Control' effective enough to completely protect their Citizens from deranged shooters & criminals, hell bent on killing the innocent & disobeying all law?

If not, do Ordinary Citizens have a 'Natural Right' to self-defend -- to protect their own lives, & the lives of their loved ones?

Will American Citizens, or any citizens of any country for that matter,  be safer & better off if only the Government & Law Enforcement had Firearms? Does recent History (within the past 100 years or so) show this to be fact?

What do you think, & most importantly ----   why?

This thread was created as a continuation of a thread in the old MyOpera Forum, which will be closing March 1st., 2014

  • Last Edit: 2014-12-15, 06:38:42 by SmileyFaze

  • ensbb3
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Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?
Reply #1075
They tell you that people are dead, and that ain't zip.

According to the United Nations, 2,473,018 people died in the United States in the most recent year data is available, 2008. That means 6,775 per day.

...Therefore you have no questions. Google said, end of discussion.

Or maybe you wonder how many of those were natural causes or otherwise unpreventable? If not then there is no action required and that is how it is, life is good and then it is gone.

Let's say you cared how many were preventable and wanted to do something. And alone you simply outlaw dying unnaturally. That's all the information you have to work with so that's a solution, of sorts. When those numbers improve your solution worked. Why? Because we don't ask questions. Things are how we want them to be based on what we (think we) know, and who wants to be wrong? That may seem exaggerated but it's literally how statistics work. The numbers represent the limit you're willing to go to understand the situation. Mostly - Stop looking when the big number is where you want it.

!0,000-ish (yes, the ! is intended) is full stop at the gun is the problem. I am curious why more information isn't relevant? (Or more to the point, you're causing that itch where ignorance is the norm and acceptable and I don't like it. :P)

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?
Reply #1076
Take an Aussie out to lunch.
The message is about three years old, but it still resonates.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/08/02/did-gun-control-work-in-australia/

  • ensbb3
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Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?
Reply #1077
I've no idea what semi-auto weapons have to do with the suicide rate. Overall, like with the UK, you just aren't comparing apples to apples even if anything believed on the subject is true. Population and culture for whatever contrived parallels just aren't the same. Attitudes towards government vary. Willingness to believe actions are correct and believe the statistics that satisfy that are different.

Methods for collecting said numbers vary too. As I've said - You can pull numbers to show anything. 

Quote from: Crime Prevention Research Center

For an example of homicide rates before and after a ban, take the case of the handgun ban in England and Wales in January 1997 (source here see Table 1.01 and the column marked "Offences currently recorded as homicide per million population").  After the ban, clearly homicide rates bounce around over time, but there is only one year (2010) where the homicide rate is lower than it was in 1996.  The immediate effect was about a 50 percent increase in homicide rates.   The homicide rate only began falling when there was a large increase in the number of police officers during 2003 and 2004.


http://crimepreventionresearchcenter.org/2013/12/murder-and-homicide-rates-before-and-after-gun-bans/

Quote from: Snopes
The first year results are now in: Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent, Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent; Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent!). In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent. (Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not and criminals still possess their guns)[...]

[...] Origins:   Although the old adage says that "Figures don't lie, but liars figure," those who seek to influence public opinion often employ a variety of means to slant statistical figures into seemingly supporting their point of view: [...]


http://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/ausguns.asp

The "success" of the 1996 Australian gun reform is a myth.


http://allenbwest.com/2014/06/australian-debunks-australian-gun-laws-obama/

(I guess I could take that Aussie to lunch. Hehe)
    

  • mjmsprt40
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Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?
Reply #1078
So--- if you get rid of guns, you get rid of gun-homicide. Theoretically. However, you manage to do nothing about all the other ways humans have of offing each other. The overall homicide rate stayed about the same after the gun ban? Maybe even climbed a little? Hmmm.... seems somebody forgot about knives, bricks, broken bottles, cars and if all else fails, a person's bare hands.

Cain slew Abel long before firearms were invented. Scripture doesn't say exactly how he did it, but the tools available would be his own hands, perhaps bashing his brother's head with a rock, or maybe the first spear or arrow. The first knives maybe. Men have been finding ways to knock off their neighbors ever since.
What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!

  • tt92
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Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?
Reply #1079
Did any of you read the whole article?
Did any of you read past the headline?
Just curious.

  • ensbb3
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Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?
Reply #1080
Did any of you read the whole article?

Depends on which one you refer to. But mostly no. Wasn't overly important for my comments on statistics.

(Or maybe it was? No way I'd know, lol.)  :worried:

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?
Reply #1081
There are by various estimates that there are anywhere from 270 million to 310 million guns in the United States. Let's say that guns are 'banned' in 2016. How many guns will there be in 2017? My best guess is between 270 and 310 million. How long will it take before gun-related deaths drop 10%?

  • ensbb3
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Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?
Reply #1082
It'd be interesting to have an approximation of cost for collection, disposal and enforcement of their removal. Bouncing numbers around on various social and educational programs would be a reasonable course too. Unless, as I suspect, gun grabbing attitudes are based off insecurities and not hard facts.

What do people shoot each other over? Monetary concerns mostly. There's your fix. It would literally cost nothing to get rid of money.  :D

  • jseaton2311
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Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?
Reply #1083
So--- if you get rid of guns, you get rid of gun-homicide.

If you get rid of guns, you absolutely get rid of the mindset over guns (eventually).  (Gotta start somewhere... :knight:  :cheers:)
James J

  • OakdaleFTL
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Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?
Reply #1084
If you get rid of guns, you absolutely get rid of the mindset over guns (eventually).  (Gotta start somewhere...
Sort-of, if you get rid of intelligence or freedom, you get -- something else... :)
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
No one listens to me as much as I do and even I have my limits...
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman

  • jseaton2311
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Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?
Reply #1085
Sort-of, if you get rid of intelligence or freedom, you get -- something else...  :)

Certainly don't wish to trample on your rights to shoot people now do we?   :knight:  :cheers:
James J

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?
Reply #1086
Careful boys! This could get ugly!

  • jseaton2311
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Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?
Reply #1087
Oakdale doesn't know how to express the feeling he has inside right now without stooping to my level--he is very limited in this respect (i.e. no cajones, no man, nothing worth talking to in the vicinity whatsoever).  The greatest men in history have had huge 'cajones'--Oak has none.  JFK (for one), had balls the size of Jupiter).   :knight:  :cheers:
James J

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?
Reply #1088
 
JFK (for one), had balls the size of Jupiter).    :knight:    :cheers:

:o

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?
Reply #1089
Maine Passes 'Constitutional Carry'



Quote
AUGUSTA, Maine (Reuters) - Maine will allow gun owners to carry concealed weapons without a permit, a practice called "constitutional carry" by Second Amendment advocates, under a bill signed into law on Wednesday by Republican Governor Paul LePage. The measure will make Maine the fifth state to pass a law legalizing the carrying of a handgun, either openly or concealed, without the requirement of a government permit. Maine joins Alaska, Arizona, Wyoming and Kansas in voting to allow the practice, according to National Rifle Association spokesman Lars Dalseide. Vermont has never required a permit. Arkansas and Montana also allow more limited forms of constitutional carry. More than a dozen other states have considered similar legislation.

The Maine law will take effect 90 days after the state's legislature adjourns, which is expected in mid-July. The Second Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, which protects the right of individuals to own and bear firearms, has limited efforts to pass gun control legislation around the country and has served as the basis for expanding gun rights in many states. Maine law currently allows gun owners to openly carry a handgun without a permit, but concealed carry requires a background check, a licensing fee, a judgment of "good moral character" and evidence the applicant can handle a gun safely. Sportsmen's groups and gun advocates argued the process was too onerous, deterring law-abiding citizens from applying. Opponents, including Maine Chiefs of Police Association, said rigorous background checks kept weapons out of the hands of felons. The new law, which passed with broad bipartisan support, would eliminate the permit requirement for any resident over 21 years old who is not already prohibited from owning a firearm. Active members of the military, and veterans over 18 years of age, would be granted the same privilege.............continued


A great time for the Second Amendment......A Great time for Liberty.......A Great Time for America!






More Guns = Less Crime

  • mjmsprt40
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  • undocumented space alien
Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?
Reply #1090
If we get rid of guns, we'll get rid of-----......

OK, boss--- whatever you say. I think you're wrong, because murderous intentions are nearly as old as Man himself. We've been at it an awfully long time, and we're pretty good at it. Some so good they can make about as murderous a weapon as you could ask for without using any sort of "gunpowder" at all.

One guy I see on You-Tube delights in making weapons using common lumber and rubber bands. Whatever you do, don't make him mad at you.

How about a revolver that fires toilet-brushes tipped with nails? Think that would kill? Bet it would--- and the accuracy of the weapon-- at least in the hands of an expert--- is as frightening as any sniper could hope for. So--- please don't tell me that if we get rid of guns we'll cut down appreciably on the murder rate. People will just find other ways to do it.

What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!

  • tt92
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Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?
Reply #1091
Thanks for that.
I didn't know such lunatics even existed, let alone where to find them.

  • mjmsprt40
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  • undocumented space alien
Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?
Reply #1092

Thanks for that.
I didn't know such lunatics even existed, let alone where to find them.


Errr-----ahhhhhh-----Speaking. I've known for quite awhile that I could build such weapons, out of commonly available materials-- no license needed to get the supplies needed though the weapon itself is probably illegal. Reason I don't do it: I haven't felt the "urge" to do it. Look at that thing: Anybody could build it, common materials and relatively simple tools that any home-owner is likely to possess. Now--- next full moon, maybe I ought to build one. After all, that's what lunatics do. MWA-HAHAHAHAHA!!!
What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!

  • tt92
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Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?
Reply #1093
As a child I made weird crossbows and rubber-band-powered devices to propel arrows. I used them to shoot at mullet, which swim right on the surface of the local creek. I got the arrows from the local archery club when they had reached the end of their life. To shoot fish from a distance of twenty yards doesn't need much in the way of fletching.
I wasn't surprised that someone had made similar fearsome weapons, but I was surprised that he had a website.

  • mjmsprt40
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Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?
Reply #1094
Smiley, when I saw this I thought of you--- I know you would approve.

I also know RJH would be apoplectic-- but that's the breaks.

What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?
Reply #1095
It's a shame about the low homicide rates.
  • Last Edit: 2015-08-17, 19:00:10 by Jimbro3738

  • mjmsprt40
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  • undocumented space alien
Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?
Reply #1096
I wonder what the rate is for breaking and entering? I know I'd be hesitant to try it in a place where every house has weapons and the people who live there are all trained to use those weapons--- but then I'm hesitant about breaking and entering to begin with. I'd have to have a reason--- like locking myself out of my house by accident-- to try it.
What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?
Reply #1097
I'd be hesitant to try it in a place where every house has weapons

That would be my old home town, Detroit.
Quote
Detroit -- Crime fell in Detroit last year, but not enough to prevent it from being the most dangerous big city in the nation, according to FBI crime statistics released Monday.

Detroit was tops in both murder rates and violent crime rates among cities with populations of more than 100,000. Two more Michigan cities, Flint and Saginaw, joined Detroit among the top five most dangerous cities with populations greater than 50,000.


It's a nice place to have lived in. My brother still lives in the thick of it. I may have mentioned that a couple of years ago a bullet came through one of his windows. I'd rather live in Baghdad.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?
Reply #1098

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?
Reply #1099

Smiley, when I saw this I thought of you--- I know you would approve.

I also know RJH would be apoplectic-- but that's the breaks.




Nice, but that girl hasn't been trained properly!!!!!

Observe, she's smiling for the camera, but take notice where her finger is.......

That's one of the first lessons in shooting safety, unless your aiming to kill something immediately,
your finger must not be on the trigger.....ZERO Tolerance......... 

If that instructor worked for me (I'm taking that the person in the shot was her instructor) that instructor would have some heavy duty explaining to do, & based on his/her answer, they may be visiting a soup kitchen near you for their next meal.....

Stupidity kills people..........not guns.....  


  • Last Edit: 2015-08-18, 01:07:09 by SmileyFaze