Skip to main content

Poll

Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to own, carry, & use Firearms to defend their own lives, & the lives of their family & friends?

  • Absolutely Yes!
  • I thinks so.
  • I don't think so.
  • Definitely No!
  • My name isn't String, so let me have a icy cold beer so I can ponder the options...

Topic: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms? (Read 95730 times)

Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?
The Second Amendment to the United States Constitution states:

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

Do you know the history behind those words?

Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to own, carry, & use Firearms to defend their own lives, & the lives of their family & friends?

Was the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution created to just protect a Citizen's right to target shoot & hunt, or was it created so that all Citizens could defend their Right to be free from a Tyrannical & Abusive Government --- along with having the ability to target/sport shoot & hunt as simply an added bonus -- merely a by product?

Can Governments legislate 'Gun Control' effective enough to completely protect their Citizens from deranged shooters & criminals, hell bent on killing the innocent & disobeying all law?

If not, do Ordinary Citizens have a 'Natural Right' to self-defend -- to protect their own lives, & the lives of their loved ones?

Will American Citizens, or any citizens of any country for that matter,  be safer & better off if only the Government & Law Enforcement had Firearms? Does recent History (within the past 100 years or so) show this to be fact?

What do you think, & most importantly ----   why?

This thread was created as a continuation of a thread in the old MyOpera Forum, which will be closing March 1st., 2014

  • Last Edit: 2014-12-15, 06:38:42 by SmileyFaze

  • OakdaleFTL
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?
Reply #1275
Oh good, we're down to personal attacks against me. Why is that? Because you know I'm right?
No. Samg. It's because I know you're wrong...
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
No one listens to me as much as I do and even I have my limits...
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman

  • ersi
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?
Reply #1276
No. Samg. It's because I know you're wrong...
Even though everything is on his side and nothing on your side, he must be wrong - because ideology. Amazing how it works.

If your point is that leftists should not be stuck in ideology, then why don't you lead by example? As long as you are yourself stuck in ideology, nobody can take you seriously when you accuse others of ideology. Or you really don't have a point. It looks like the latter is the case.

  • OakdaleFTL
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?
Reply #1277
Even though everything is on his side and nothing on your side, he must be wrong [...]
Everything is on his side? :) I suspect you don't even know what "his side" is...
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
No one listens to me as much as I do and even I have my limits...
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman

  • ersi
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?
Reply #1278
Everything is on his side? :) I suspect you don't even know what "his side" is...
Maybe I just know that he is right, regardless of his side. Whereas you are on SF's side, the side which which cannot be argued for.

Maybe indeed everything is not on Sang's side, but everything that has been said thus far is, and nothing is on your side. For a change, say something in support of your side. If you have a side, then you can support it.

  • SmileyFaze
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?
Reply #1279
Sorry for being a bit late to the party.

It looks like you guys are moving along smoothly.

'Coony, looks like you haven't changed a bit since we last crossed paths a long while back.  Surprised, with the wealth of intelligence you think you have within your own mind, that you haven't come up with the cure for cancer, hunger, or even closer to home, AIDS.

  Yer still sitting' on that same post, spinning your typical well intentioned tripe, tryin' to squeal yer wheels but getting nowhere because you forgot to lower the jacks & yer wheels aren't grippin' the road!

Your posts have been very, very interesting,,,,,,but meaningless, though, in a cute way, very amusing. 

Before you get your panties in a twist, I just want you to understand one thing crystal clear. Not now, nor at any time in the recent past, do I ask for, need, or want any validation from any government, any person, or society in general, when it comes to My Second or First Amendment Rights.

I will speak my mind in any way I see fit, on any issue I chose.

The one thing....the only thing......you can  count on is that what I say will always be what I know to be the truth, especially when regarding personal issues, & you can count on knowing where I stand on any issue, when I do say what I say.

My comings & goings will never depend on whether you do or do not appreciate or even like what I say.

If you disagree with me, fine.

If you agree with me, fine.

If you aren't sure either way, that's your problem.

I might try to explain it to you, but I won't understand it for you.

That you need to do all for yourself. ;)

     In times of universal deceit, telling the honest truth is a revolutionary act.

  • Belfrager
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?
Reply #1280
When we grow up we want to be like him.
Until then...

From Europe with love, brave cowboy  :zzz:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1c_JPjNW6Qg
A matter of attitude.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?
Reply #1281
Nice one, Belfrager :D So they're actually in Holland with a green screen of the Alps in the background, brilliant :)
"What kind of man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter."
― Terry Pratchett, Going Postal

  • OakdaleFTL
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?
Reply #1282
[...] Whereas you are on SF's side, the side which which cannot be argued for.
I don't know that SF has a side, beyond being an American... We have inalianble rights, and we mean to keep them!
Why, you wonder? Well, that explains why your "country" has most often been ruled by others. You have fine instincts and wonderful principles. But no where-with-all! Smiley, it seems to me, knows what "where-with-all" means; you don't.

When you say SF's side can't be argued for, I take that to mean that you accept serfdom as Man's natural state... You're surely aware that we in America rejected that, along with being "subjects"? But you don't understand it: You've only vaguely heard about people being free... (It happened so long ago in your history that it no longer resonates.)
What does he actually argue for?
An armed populace.
Who -besides an oppressive government- fears this?

"Regular people" you'd likely say. Does the populace of Chicago say this? Their politicians do... And their murder rate is one of the highest in our country, while their anti-gun regulations are some of the most stringent: Yet you claim -as does Sang- that statistics supports your bias...
You have a predisposition to meekness and wimpery! That's okay by me. (I've often been a wimp, myself...) Still, people like Smiley will be needed, if we won't succumb to the same vices that various European countries have:
That is, Americans -- rude and crude; and -trained or not- competent.
Like Obama said, some things are just in our DNA.
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
No one listens to me as much as I do and even I have my limits...
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman

  • ersi
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?
Reply #1283
I don't know that SF has a side, beyond being an American... We have inalianble rights, and we mean to keep them!
Heard this ad nauseam.

Why, you wonder?
No. Not wondering at all.

Well, that explains why your "country" has most often been ruled by others. You have fine instincts and wonderful principles. But no where-with-all!
This where-with-all you use to trample on instincts and principles, including on your own. So, as a matter of principle, this where-with-all should be avoided.

Smiley, it seems to me, knows what "where-with-all" means; you don't.
Nah, he doesn't know what "means" means, not to mention what anything else means. As you yourself admitted - you don't know if he has a side. So you (either of you) don't have an argument to begin with. You are just full of it and you call it where-with-all. That's an inalienable wrong, I'd say. Enjoy yourgoodselves.

  • OakdaleFTL
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?
Reply #1284
You'd not likely be familiar with any accurate statistics... So, consider the case of Warren v. District of Columbia. In light of that finding, do you still find "where-with-all" a vice?
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
No one listens to me as much as I do and even I have my limits...
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman

  • Belfrager
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?
Reply #1285
If there's anything stupid it's exactly people wanting to legalize fire guns arguing that fire guns are a right to combat laws.
Fire guns are to be illegal in order to oppose laws, be it right or wrong doesn't matter.
A matter of attitude.

  • SmileyFaze
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?
Reply #1286
If there's anything stupid it's exactly people wanting to legalize fire guns arguing that fire guns are a right to combat laws.
Fire guns are to be illegal in order to oppose laws, be it right or wrong doesn't matter.

  WTF?

    @Bel    Not for nothing, but I think your translator's cheese has slid off it's cracker or
it's had a massive cerebral hemorrhage or something!! 
     In times of universal deceit, telling the honest truth is a revolutionary act.

  • Belfrager
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?
Reply #1287
 :lol: My sentence makes all the sense, if you turn firearms legal you turn into the next "tyranic government" you should be fighting.

In contrary, see what happens all over rural Europe, there's no house that doesn't have fireguns, all of them illegal and no one gives a shit. We don't need arms to be legal, we need it to fire. And it will be fired when and if necessity arrives. That's the only thing that turns us free.

When people wants to be legal they simply bow to the powers in charge. :)
Wanting to legalize its a manifestation of fear.
A matter of attitude.

  • Colonel Rebel
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?
Reply #1288
It's amazing to me that this thread is still going. Regardless, I remain unmoved from my original position. I see no need for ownership of assault rifles, but I can also see why the hardcore bunch would like them.


  • SmileyFaze
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?
Reply #1289
Interpretation means everything, especially when it must take into account the "original intent" of the writers of the Constitution.

This is how the Framers of the Second Amendment intended it be read, & understood.

For us to fully understand & appreciate the Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America, we must first understand how the Founding Fathers expressed themselves.....the writing style, of the late 18th Century.

The United States Supreme Court, who have final say when called upon to determine Constitutionality........what the Founding Fathers intended, & what the Law of the Land specifies.......has concluded the following, based on the works of countless Constitutional Scholars, to interpret the meaning of our Second Amendment to the United States Constitution:

Quote
There are two clauses that comprise the Second Amendment, an operative clause, and a prefatory clause.

Operative Clause: "The right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

The operative clause is the actual protected right; kind of the 'meat and potatoes.' The court wrote: "1. Operative Clause. a. 'Right of the People.' [used 3 times in Bill of Rights] ... All three of these instances unambiguously refer to individual rights, not 'collective' rights, or rights that may be exercised only through participation in some corporate body." . 

Prefatory Clause: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State."

The prefatory clause is the lead-in that "announces a purpose" for the operative clause.  The court stated: "The Amendment's prefatory clause announces a purpose, but does not limit or expand the scope of the second part, the operative clause. The operative clause's text and history demonstrate that it connotes an individual right to keep and bear arms".

The court also stated: "The Amendment could be rephrased,  'Because a well regulated Militia is necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.'"



Blindly using modern terms & phraseology is what gets most modern interpreters of the 18th Century Constitution off on the wrong beaten track.
  • Last Edit: 2017-10-10, 02:11:23 by SmileyFaze
     In times of universal deceit, telling the honest truth is a revolutionary act.

  • rjhowie
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?
Reply #1290
Look brain lacker we are not in the 18th century and after centuries you lot still haven't grown up. The hard truth is that such a corner of thinking keeps alive mass killings and in creased sales of guns, SLR's and worse but that is okay in a modern worl. Why have such a big military and keep alive a nonsense that is damn well out of date? There is no need to misuse that old Constitution thing and should have been scrapped an awful long time ago when the military replaced that need. Apart from being a big military State spending half the global military bill you have city police forces that take out people who are not armed and often damn innocent. You are in infantile country on adult thinking and act like children playing cowboys. Oh and it is okay to skip the hard truth that you have lost more Americans gunning each other down than in wars? What a two face you re being. Tens of millions over there suffering jails with millions and farcical politics and people.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • Belfrager
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?
Reply #1291
Why should not Americans be allowed to have guns?? let them, it's their problem.
They can't carry it for any civilized place in the world, that's for sure, so why don't let them kill among themselves happily?

I'm totally in favor for Americans to carry fire guns.
So don't keep complaining with blá blá massacres, nobody has more patience for that. It's a right they have. At their home, nowhere else.
A matter of attitude.

  • rjhowie
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?
Reply #1292
You are being daft. The bum about everything they do in the world whilst at the same damn time make themselves look stupid, start wars and interfere everywhere as if they owned the world. They are world interferes and every right to be faced with a total immaturity and head shaking nonsense.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • OakdaleFTL
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?
Reply #1293
Step up, Scotsman! Do your duty! :)

Okay: you don't do that anymore. You just whine and bitch... and die, unappreciated. What did you do for which you should be appreciated?
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
No one listens to me as much as I do and even I have my limits...
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman

  • rjhowie
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?
Reply #1294
As you are tuck in a land of partial democracy and freedoms never mind thinking for yourselves i did much. Worked in education circles for years and the government and a youth organisation as well amongst other things. Stood in city elections and nearly won a council seat in my city a while back. Was interviewed briefer on a private radio station briefly on my voluntary efforts in less off communities. Then flown to another UK city to be one of three speakers each doing 3 workshops held in an educational college on inner-city work. One was an Anglican Canon a professional youth worker and me on my voluntary work. Then I was interveiwed by someone from Glasgow university who did a book on a selection of community people and was taken on by my voluntary side. It ran to a whole chapter in a limited circulation thing and a copy is now in the Glasgow Mitchell Library. This is not a routine place but a large and famous reference place where books cannot be taken out. Then BBC Radio interviewed me for 15 minutes on my efforts in society.  So that is me marked in history dear poor man.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • jax
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
  • Global Moderator
Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?
Reply #1295

  • Frenzie
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
  • Administrator
Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?
Reply #1296
I probably mentioned this the last time one of their video clips was posted, but just so you know where they're coming from: the VPRO is a red[1] public broadcaster.
Not Republican. The other red.

  • OakdaleFTL
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?
Reply #1297
Wow! You're quite full of yourself!

But if you're an example of educators and prospective public servants, your country is in dire need of immigrants... The locals can't hack it anymore. :)
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
No one listens to me as much as I do and even I have my limits...
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman

  • rjhowie
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?
Reply #1298
Too many Americans have brains like children and can be manipulated over nonsense. Shame for the decent sensibles who find tey are growing up in a standard nutjobland.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

  • ensbb3
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?
Reply #1299
Maybe they can take your opinion away next? It seems to be causing you distress. Your government treats you like children by taking everything away from you. Your police get stabbed - or have to surrender streets to hooligans because they can't even defend themselves and you think they can protect you? Bombs seem to go off there more than we have shootings. And your media force feeds you the idea that disarming your populace somehow makes you safe. What kind of child mind does it take to believe you need someone to hold your hand and keep you safe?

Your system isn't the only way to proceed. Degrading other systems to justify your own shortcomings seems to be your only weapon left. Legislation to control guns within reason can be found. Our system does not allow disarming the populace without substantial changes to the Constitution. That you surrender to your own government so easily makes you no better off. That you are actually the one suffering from a superiority complex while I'm the one with a gun is hilarious and only serves to prove the immature attitude that led to removing anything that you can hurt someone with from your possession. I do the same with small children.

Without the social programs in place your prohibition on weapons wouldn't work. You are far too indoctrinated into the idea that people shouldn't have guns to understand what a fool you are for claiming you know the solution. 
  • Last Edit: 2017-10-14, 20:44:51 by ensbb3